Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure

Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: daddy8ball on April 26, 2012, 07:53:50 AM

Title: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: daddy8ball on April 26, 2012, 07:53:50 AM
Has this concept ever been born out by science?

If I did 50 sets of leg extensions until I could barely stand...

..and then went to the squat rack and did 10 sets of 185,

Would that build as much mass as just squatting sets of 400+ pounds?

I favor the former approach because it appears less risk of injury.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Marlo Stanfield on April 26, 2012, 08:26:00 AM
Has this concept ever been born out by science?

If I did 50 sets of leg extensions until I could barely stand...

..and then went to the squat rack and did 10 sets of 185,

Would that build as much mass as just squatting sets of 400+ pounds?

I favor the former approach because it appears less risk of injury.

Thoughts?

dude, go read about different type of muscle fibers...

lifting 400lbs for 4 reps will build a certain type of muscle fibers, whereas repping 50 for 100 lbs will build a different type of muscle fiber
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: lvtolft on April 26, 2012, 08:26:35 AM
Yes, it works.
But, the best thing to do is always change your workouts.   Keep your body guessing.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: OneManGang on April 26, 2012, 08:44:51 AM
Yes, it works.
But, the best thing to do is always change your workouts.   Keep your body guessing.

Hahaha! Quote from the Weider text book of 1965. Beware, your body will have a 1965 look too.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Heywood on April 26, 2012, 08:49:15 AM
Has this concept ever been born out by science?

If I did 50 sets of leg extensions until I could barely stand...

..and then went to the squat rack and did 10 sets of 185,

Would that build as much mass as just squatting sets of 400+ pounds?

I favor the former approach because it appears less risk of injury.

Thoughts?

50 sets?....10 sets?...

That's not pre-exhaustion, that's overtraining (or bullshit).

Do 20 reps of leg presses (to failure),
followed immediately by 20 reps of leg extensions (to failure),
followed immediately by 20 reps of squats (to failure)....

One cycle only.


Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: daddy8ball on April 26, 2012, 08:59:32 AM
dude, go read about different type of muscle fibers...

lifting 400lbs for 4 reps will build a certain type of muscle fibers, whereas repping 50 for 100 lbs will build a different type of muscle fiber

I understand that, but will pre-exhaustion "trick" your fast twitch muscle fibers into thinking they're lifting 400 pounds (when they're really not) if they've been taxed enough before hand?
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: wes on April 26, 2012, 09:21:20 AM
You cannot trick your body......think Time Under Tension.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Fortress on April 26, 2012, 09:31:30 AM
But, the best thing to do is always change your workouts. Keep your body guessing.

What is this, 1983? Fuck me sideways.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: dj181 on April 26, 2012, 09:36:38 AM
50 sets?....10 sets?...

That's not pre-exhaustion, that's overtraining (or bullshit).

Do 20 reps of leg presses (to failure),
followed immediately by 20 reps of leg extensions (to failure),
followed immediately by 20 reps of squats (to failure)....

One cycle only.





and then lie on the floor for at least 10 min straight nearly passed out and in a state of shock
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: ritch on April 26, 2012, 09:40:00 AM
what's with the high reps? that is not pre exhaustion. I've done phone consultations with Mike back in the day. This was my quad training.

Leg extensions:6-10 reps
followed by
squats:4-6 reps

DONE! I would do this once every 14 days.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: dan18 on April 26, 2012, 09:50:17 AM
Has this concept ever been born out by science?

If I did 50 sets of leg extensions until I could barely stand...

..and then went to the squat rack and did 10 sets of 185,

Would that build as much mass as just squatting sets of 400+ pounds?

I favor the former approach because it appears less risk of injury.

Thoughts?
we have a board for this question its the training board try it out ;D
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: ritch on April 26, 2012, 09:51:50 AM
you see, the more experience you have training, the less reps you need to stimulate growth, thus intensity is needed, you can't do this with light weights! Gotta go heavy!!!
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: dj181 on April 26, 2012, 09:56:30 AM
what's with the high reps? that is not pre exhaustion. I've done phone consultations with Mike back in the day. This was my quad training.

Leg extensions:6-10 reps
followed by
squats:4-6 reps

DONE! I would do this once every 14 days.

what were your strength and size gains on that protocol? and i think these high reps come from AJ's training style with Casey V and Sergio back in the day
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: ritch on April 26, 2012, 09:58:47 AM
what were your strength and size gains on that protocol? and i think these high reps come from AJ's training style with Casey V and Sergio back in the day


I was early 20's at the time, still lifetime natty. The leg extensions were full stack, holding the weight for as long as possible on the last rep, followed by 3 plates a side on back squats.

I also did this while dieting.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Grape Ape on April 26, 2012, 10:13:29 AM
50 sets?....10 sets?...

That's not pre-exhaustion, that's overtraining (or bullshit).

Do 20 reps of leg presses (to failure),
followed immediately by 20 reps of leg extensions (to failure),
followed immediately by 20 reps of squats (to failure)....

One cycle only.





That's not pre-exhaustion though.   IIRC, the idea is to exhaust one muscle through and isolation movement, then work that same muscle, but with a compound movement to give it assistance from other muscle groups.  i.e. leg extensions before squats.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Heywood on April 26, 2012, 11:05:17 AM

That's not pre-exhaustion though.   IIRC, the idea is to exhaust one muscle through and isolation movement, then work that same muscle, but with a compound movement to give it assistance from other muscle groups.  i.e. leg extensions before squats.


This is what was done by Jones with Casey, and was popularly known as the Nautilus leg cycle, around 1970.

I understand what you are saying.  DB lateral raises followed immediately by BNP's was the pre-exhaustion program for shoulders.  Lateral raises would tire out the deltoids, while the triceps would still be fresh for the behind neck presses.

Jones was using the leg press/leg extension/squat as the toughest leg program possible.  The lower back is fresh for the squats.

Go back to the old IM mags.

Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Mr Nobody on April 26, 2012, 11:12:41 AM
Yes it works, having long arms and weak triceps bench press/inclines didnt work for me cause the triceps would give out before the chest. I did pre-exhaust for a few weeks the chest stated coming around. I wouldnt recommend it all the time but on a periodic basis as a shock to the muscles.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Hulkotron on April 26, 2012, 11:27:04 AM
Contractile harmony and pseudo-rest are the keys to a great physique.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on April 26, 2012, 11:48:38 AM
Hahaha! Quote from the Weider text book of 1965. Beware, your body will have a 1965 look too.

lolz
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on April 26, 2012, 11:51:21 AM
There isn't enough physical strain you can put on your body that your genetic code hasn't ever dealt with in the past. So tricking your body is out of the question. It can only re-remember.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: doriancutlerman on April 26, 2012, 02:23:16 PM
It never did much for my pecs.  Delts either, for that matter.  I found pressing first, chest fly and lateral raise-type movements second was a lot better.  If I stuck to typical Nautilus pre-exhaustion for very long, my pressing strength would go to shit in a hurry.

It did seem really effective for upper back given the right equipment.  Go from a Nautilus pullover to one of those Behind Neck torso machines, where you push the pads from ear level down to your waist.  Then go to a pulldown.  All three taken to failure without rest worked extremely well for me -- better than getting to the point that I could do fifty plates/side on the Hammer machine row or even 275-315 for 5-8 on Pendlays, and that's natty versus [sometimes] a little bit enhanced with Thai pinks.  I'm on a lot more than that at the moment but I'm not pushing back or legs hard at all.  As Flex Wheeler said, it gets me out of breath :D


Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Palpatine Q on April 26, 2012, 02:33:25 PM
different types of muscle fibers use different things for energy. fast twitch use ATP and burn out quick, slow twitch use oxygen and have stamina, you are not going to trick your body anytime soon. that's what happens inside your body, and you cannot make it any different

best to use a well rounded approach and hit them all, although fast twitch are optimal for hypertrophy, the guys with an abundance of fast twitch are the muscular guys. like EVERYTHING else in this game...comes down to genetics
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: the trainer on April 26, 2012, 02:35:00 PM
What is this, 1983? Fuck me sideways.


Offer accepted a hairy bear client will be contacting you shorty to perform this act.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Mr Nobody on April 26, 2012, 02:42:44 PM
different types of muscle fibers use different things for energy. fast twitch use ATP and burn out quick, slow twitch use oxygen and have stamina, you are not going to trick your body anytime soon. that's what happens inside your body, and you cannot make it any different

best to use a well rounded approach and hit them all, although fast twitch are optimal for hypertrophy, the guys with an abundance of fast twitch are the muscular guys. like EVERYTHING else in this game...comes down to genetics
Good post.
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: no one on April 26, 2012, 03:00:02 PM


everyone over thinks this shit.

train to cause the muscle to need to repair. take drugs. eat. rest. repeat.

Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Palpatine Q on April 26, 2012, 03:04:16 PM

everyone over thinks this shit.

train to cause the muscle to need to repair. take drugs. eat. rest. repeat.



this pretty much overrides the rest  ;D
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Heywood on April 26, 2012, 03:12:35 PM
this pretty much overrides the rest  ;D

....and the reason why increases in bodybuilding knowledge ended in the 1950's, for the most part.


Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: ritch on April 26, 2012, 09:22:19 PM

everyone over thinks this shit.

train to cause the muscle to need to repair. take drugs. eat. rest. repeat.



as they say, people don't plan to fail, they fail to...
Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Megalodon on April 26, 2012, 09:30:39 PM
Who 'invented' Pre Exhaust?

Did someone first write about that "principle" in an Ironman article?

Is that person still alive?

If no, did they die recently?

And were they a magazine publisher?

Title: Re: Pre Exhaustion - Does it work at all?
Post by: Mawse on April 26, 2012, 09:33:41 PM
except when you pre-exhaust the quads, its the glutes, hips and hams that do most of the work in the squat .. so you actually work the target muscle LESS because the other muscles have to do the work, with a reduced load.

Pre exhaust is so retarded I can't even be bothered to explain all the reasons it sucks.. just pyramid up the weight on your compound leg exercise and do 10-20 reps instead of badly performed sets of 5 with too much weight