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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: Ron on April 28, 2012, 08:04:12 AM
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Here we go.... FDA getting involved in more supplement products...
FDA NEWS RELEASE For Immediate Release: April 27, 2012
Media Inquiries: Siobhan DeLancey, 301-796-4668 or 202-510-4177, siobhan.delancey@fda.hhs.gov;
Tamara Ward, 301-796-7567, tamara.ward@fda.hhs.gov
Trade Press Inquiries: Sebastian Cianci, 240-402-2291, sebastian.cianci@fda.hhs.gov
Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA
FDA challenges marketing of DMAA products for lack of safety evidence
Agency cites ten companies in warning letters
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today issued warning letters to ten manufacturers and distributors of dietary supplements containing dimethylamylamine, more popularly known as DMAA, for marketing products for which evidence of the safety of the product had not been submitted to FDA.
Also referred to as 1,3-dimethylamylamine, methylhexanamine, or geranium extract, the ingredient is in dietary supplements and is often touted as a "natural" stimulant.
The companies receiving warning letters and their product names are:
Exclusive Supplements - Biorhythm Juice
Fahrenheit Nutrition - Lean Efx
Gaspari Nutrition - Spirodex
iSatori - PWR
Muscle Warfare - Napalm
MuscleMeds - Code Red
Nutrex Research - Hemo Rage Black
Nutrex Research - Lipo-6 Black Ultra Concentrate
Nutrex Research - Lipo-6 Black
Nutrex Research - Lipo-6 Black Hers Ultra Concentrate
Nutrex Research - Lipo-6 Black Hers
SEI Pharmaceuticals - MethylHex 4,2
SNI LLC - Nitric Blast
USP Labs - Oxy Elite Pro
USP Labs -Jack3D
"Before marketing products containing DMAA, manufacturers and distributors have a responsibility under the law to provide evidence of the safety of their products. They haven’t done that and that makes the products adulterated," said Daniel Fabricant, Ph.D., Director of FDA’s Dietary Supplement Program.
Specifically, the warning letters cite the companies for marketing products for which a notification had not been submitted for the use of DMAA as a New Dietary Ingredient (NDI). Under current law, dietary supplement manufacturers or distributors who use certain dietary ingredients not marketed in a dietary supplement prior to October 15, 1994, are responsible for notifying the FDA of evidence to support their conclusion that their dietary supplements containing NDIs are safe. Manufacturers or distributors must submit notification at least 75 days before marketing their products. The companies warned today were marketing products for which this requirement had not been met.
The FDA warning letters also advised the companies that the agency is not aware of evidence or history of use to indicate that DMAA is safe. Under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA), manufacturers, marketers and distributors of dietary supplements are responsible for ensuring that they are marketing a safe product.
The FDA letters noted that DMAA is known to narrow the blood vessels and arteries, which can elevate blood pressure and may lead to cardiovascular events ranging from shortness of breath and tightening in the chest to heart attack. The agency has received 42 adverse event reports on products containing DMAA. While the complaints do not establish that DMAA was the cause of the incidents, some of the reports have included cardiac disorders, nervous system disorders, psychiatric disorders, and death.
The agency additionally warned the companies that synthetically-produced DMAA is not a “dietary ingredient” and, therefore, is not eligible to be used as an active ingredient in a dietary supplement. DSHEA defines a dietary ingredient as a vitamin, mineral, amino acid, herb or other botanical, a dietary substance for use by man to supplement the diet, or a concentrate, metabolite, constituent, extract, or combination of these substances.
The companies have 15 business days to respond to the FDA with the specific steps they will take to address the issues in the warning letters.
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NY Times article...
The Food and Drug Administration warned marketers of dietary supplements this week that certain popular “workout boosters” could increase people’s blood pressure, potentially causing shortness of breath or heart attacks.
With names like Jack3d and OxyElite Pro, these products have been popular with athletes because they contain an ingredient, known as dimethylamylamine or DMAA, advertised to increase energy, concentration and metabolism. Marketed as dietary supplements, the products have been best sellers among fitness buffs at stores like GNC and the Vitamin Shoppe, as well as on Web sites like bodybuilding.com.
But in warning letters sent on Tuesday to 10 firms that make or distribute such items, federal health regulators deemed the products adulterated because, the agency said, the firms had failed to demonstrate the safety of the crucial ingredient. DMAA, agency officials wrote in the letters, “narrows the blood vessels and arteries,” frequently leading to elevated blood pressure.
“Before marketing products containing DMAA, manufacturers and distributors have a responsibility under the law to provide evidence of the safety of their products,” Daniel Fabricant, director of the F.D.A.’s dietary supplement program, said in a statement on Friday afternoon. “They haven’t done that, and that makes the products adulterated.” The firms have 15 business days to tell the F.D.A. what actions they plan to take to address the issues cited in the letters.
Marketers say the ingredient is safe.
Greg Miller, a spokesman for GNC, said the company was “unaware of any scientific or medical evidence which calls the safety of DMAA into question” and disagreed with the F.D.A.’s action.
Peter B. Hutt, a lawyer at Covington & Burling who represents USPlabs, the marketer of Jack3d and OxyElite Pro, said: “The company is convinced that DMAA is lawfully marketed as a dietary ingredient under federal law and the company will present a full defense of the ingredient.”
Other firms that received the agency’s warning letters include Muscle Warfare, which markets a DMAA product called Napalm; MuscleMeds Performance Technologies, the marketer of Code Red; and Farenheit Nutrition, which markets a product called Lean-Efx.
The agency’s warning follows an announcement earlier this year by the United States Defense Department that it was investigating whether products containing DMAA played a role in the deaths of two soldiers last year.
DMAA was originally developed in the 1940s by Eli Lilly, the pharmaceutical company, as a nasal decongestant called Forthane, but the drug maker stopped making the medicine.
In Canada, the government health agency has classified DMAA as an amphetaminelike drug, prohibiting companies there from selling the ingredient as a dietary supplement.
Steve Mister, the chief executive of the Council for Responsible Nutrition, a dietary supplement trade group, said that DMAA had been the subject of controversy in the industry.
“Some companies have been critical,” Mr. Mister said, “but some companies that make it say that they have the data to show that it is both safe and a legitimate dietary supplement ingredient.”
Still, Mr. Mister added, “I am not defending this ingredient because none of my member companies make it.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/28/health/fda-sends-warning-letters-to-10-marketers-of-workout-boosters.html?_r=1
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I've said this since it came on the market, DMAA is too strong to be legal. Causes terrible depression when it wears off as well.
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I noticed that the brand I sometimes use is not on the list of companies to recieve the letter.
I wonder if there are others, and why they did not receive the "warning."
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Most were probably smart enough to take it out before it gets banned or someone kills himself during the crash. It seriously fucks with the mind.
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The agency additionally warned the companies that synthetically-produced DMAA is not a “dietary ingredient” and, therefore, is not eligible to be used as an active ingredient in a dietary supplement.
Is the FDA specifically targetting companies that use the synthetic form?
The articles don't clearly state the criteria for who got the letters. I don't know about the other products, but I know that the one I use is derived from geranium extract.
I'm also curious if the herbal form carries side effects comparable to the synthetic version.
There isn't a whole lot of research or info on this ingredient.
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While on the topic of DMMA, I’ll add the following insight:
The most significant effect I’ve found DMMA to have is enhancing concentration/focus following consumption. I’ve never experienced heart palpitations or elevated RMR from it. When taken with caffeine, it seems to have a pleasantly synergistic end result, with another bonus being the minimization of the “crash” feeling that often accompanies larger quantities of caffeine intake.
However, I’ve never cared for it as a pre-workout supplement. As a vasoconstrictor, it’s not the best workout aid. You may - at least in theory - be able to negate that effect by also taking a vasodilator such as arginine - but, I don’t know if that will hamper the mechanism(s) of the DMMA at all.
Secondly, you should be well-hydrated prior to training. Unfortunately, water seems to dilute the strength of DMMA, another factor making it an unfavorable choice of pre-workout supplementation.
The last observation I’ve made is that you seemingly develop a tolerance to DMMA; and rather quickly, at that. In a few reviews I’ve read, users have mentioned “cycling” use of the product in different ways. I suspect that differences in individual biochemistry will vary the results and opinions that users experience; as will the ways in which users take the product. That probably explains the vast difference in feedback you can find in the product reviews.
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As an aside, just wondering why on earth someone could be attracted to a product called "Napalm"
The name Muscle Warfare is bad enough, ...but Napalm?? Good grief!!! :o
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I have used Oxy Elite Pro and didn't notice anything. Might as well of drink a cup of coffee instead. Of course I only took as directed which is probably safe compared to the abusers who take 3x the dose.
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As an aside, just wondering why on earth someone could be attracted to a product called "Napalm"
The name Muscle Warfare is bad enough, ...but Napalm?? Good grief!!! :o
Same guys that workout with camo pants on probably lol.
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Nutrex's Hemo Rage was one of the strongest supplements I've used. Gave me enough energy for a heavy weight-training session, twenty minutes of HIT cardio, and then a good part of my third shift at work.
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Same guys that workout with camo pants on probably lol.
LOL, I was kind of thinking the same thing. :D
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my jack3d. oh, no. oh no oh noooooo...
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my jack3d. oh, no. oh no oh noooooo...
Better stock up quick! :(
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got my six tubs of reserve jack3d. damn govt!
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got my six tubs of reserve jack3d. damn govt!
Geranium is hard on the cns. I used it the last few weeks and feel tired all the time. Took a week off 3 weeks ago so I should be energized and good to go...
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While on the topic of DMMA, I’ll add the following insight:
The most significant effect I’ve found DMMA to have is enhancing concentration/focus following consumption. I’ve never experienced heart palpitations or elevated RMR from it. When taken with caffeine, it seems to have a pleasantly synergistic end result, with another bonus being the minimization of the “crash” feeling that often accompanies larger quantities of caffeine intake.
However, I’ve never cared for it as a pre-workout supplement. As a vasoconstrictor, it’s not the best workout aid. You may - at least in theory - be able to negate that effect by also taking a vasodilator such as arginine - but, I don’t know if that will hamper the mechanism(s) of the DMMA at all.
Secondly, you should be well-hydrated prior to training. Unfortunately, water seems to dilute the strength of DMMA, another factor making it an unfavorable choice of pre-workout supplementation.
The last observation I’ve made is that you seemingly develop a tolerance to DMMA; and rather quickly, at that. In a few reviews I’ve read, users have mentioned “cycling” use of the product in different ways. I suspect that differences in individual biochemistry will vary the results and opinions that users experience; as will the ways in which users take the product. That probably explains the vast difference in feedback you can find in the product reviews.
Totally agree.
And especially I think it is worthless as a booster because you build up tolerance quicker than you can say DMMA. 2-3 sessions and you don't feel anything.
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Totally agree.
And especially I think it is worthless as a booster because you build up tolerance quicker than you can say DMMA. 2-3 sessions and you don't feel anything.
I haven't tried dmma. Is it an alpha receptor stimulant?
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I haven't tried dmma. Is it an alpha receptor stimulant?
I'm not sure of many details, because there hasn't been much research done on it. It allegedly acts on the nervous system via a different pathway than caffeine or ephedrine, but I've never been able to substantiate or clarify that claim. :-\
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I'm not sure of many details, because there hasn't been much research done on it. It allegedly acts on the nervous system via a different pathway than caffeine or ephedrine, but I've never been able to substantiate or clarify that claim. :-\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethoxymethamphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethoxymethamphetamine)
fuck that shit... crappy mdma...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethoxymethamphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethoxymethamphetamine)
fuck that shit... crappy mdma...
No, that's something different.
Try this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylhexanamine
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No, that's something different.
Try this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylhexanamine
that makes more sense
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that makes more sense
It's a little confusing at times.
I've seen it called DMMA, DMAA, and DMA.
Your safest bet if wishing to do a search is to type "1, 3 dimethylamylamine" into the engine.
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It actually feels like crappy MDMA though, LOL!!
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i just ordered gum with caffeine in it.... fucking genius!
I ordered a case of Launch Gum (Pre-Workout Stimulant Gum) - Peppermint
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i just ordered gum with caffeine in it.... fucking genius!
I ordered a case of Launch Gum (Pre-Workout Stimulant Gum) - Peppermint
How much caffeine in a stick/piece?
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How about the caffeine that you can inhale, that's supposed to be pretty harsh.
Or just go ahead and take smelling salts.
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i just ordered gum with caffeine in it.... fucking genius!
I ordered a case of Launch Gum (Pre-Workout Stimulant Gum) - Peppermint
I bet it's going to taste like crap ~ kinda like that caffeinated water :-X
Let us know.
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How about the caffeine that you can inhale, that's supposed to be pretty harsh.
Or just go ahead and take smelling salts.
I've never seen the caffeine inhaler; didn't even know they made one.
I've always been curious about the smelling salts. I almost bought some once, but I don't know if I'd like them, and the only places I've seen them for sale require you to order a bulk quantity.
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How much caffeine in a stick/piece?
Medicinal Ingredients: per tablet Caffeine 61.3mg, Taurine 34.5mg, Inositol 1.73mg, Niacin (B3) 0.75mg, Calcium D-Pantothenate (B5) 0.35mg, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B6) 0.19mg, Riboflavin (B2) 60mcg.
Non-Medicinal Ingredients: Gum base, sorbitol, mannitol, isomalt, natural and artificial flavours, starch, talc, menthol, gum arabic, maltodextrine, magnesium stearate, silicon dioxide, sucralose, acesulfame potassium, aspartame, carnauba wax, titanium dioxide, butylated hydroxyanisole.
Recommended Use or Purpose: Provides energy for periods of increased mental and physical exertion. Helps restore temporary mental alertness or wakefulness when experiencing fatigue or drowsiness. Recommended Dose (adults & children 12 and over): 2-4 gum tablets every 3-4 hours. Do not exceed 10 tablets per day.
I bet it's going to taste like crap ~ kinda like that caffeinated water :-X
Let us know.
i hope not... i bought a case... :-\
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i hope not... i bought a case... :-\
Ah, if you don't like it, just give it to your nieces and nephews.
Little kids love gum!!
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Ah, if you don't like it, just give it to your nieces and nephews.
Little kids love gum!!
I think it'll be like minty chewable redbull. No homo.
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I've never seen the caffeine inhaler; didn't even know they made one.
I've always been curious about the smelling salts. I almost bought some once, but I don't know if I'd like them, and the only places I've seen them for sale require you to order a bulk quantity.
http://www.aeroshots.com/
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http://www.aeroshots.com/
Ha-ha...that's great!
Definitely has certain advantages over other caffeine sources.
Thanks for the link!
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Ha-ha...that's great!
Definitely has certain advantages over other caffeine sources.
Thanks for the link!
You're welcome!
Unfortunately it's only available in the US, so I've never tried it.
But from what I read it's pretty hardcore.
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You're welcome!
Unfortunately it's only available in the US, so I've never tried it.
But from what I read it's pretty hardcore.
It sounds like it's only powder that comes out of them.
Can you purchase caffeine capsules over there? You could probably just pull open a capsule and use in similar fashion. Caps don't even take that long to dissolve, anyway. Of course, tablets are another story.
Honestly, while this device does have certain advantages, I suspect its popularity is at least in part attributed to being something of a trendy new "gimmick."
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It sounds like it's only powder that comes out of them.
Can you purchase caffeine capsules over there? You could probably just pull open a capsule and use in similar fashion. Caps don't even take that long to dissolve, anyway. Of course, tablets are another story.
Honestly, while this device does have certain advantages, I suspect its popularity is at least in part attributed to being something of a trendy new "gimmick."
Yeah probably that could work.
Why don't you try it for us? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Yeah probably that could work.
Why don't you try it for us? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Dammit, I'm a mod; not a lab rat!! >:(
:)
In all seriousness, though, it stands to reason that breaking open a capsule and swallowing the contents would yield faster absorption time, but after referencing the idea in my previous post, I'd like to qualify the notion with this warning:
It is NOT ADVISABLE to employ the above-mentioned practice with any kind of encapsulated medicine or supplement.
There are some compounds that can cause irritation or damage to the lining of the mouth and/or esophagus. I first learned that years ago when one of my Dad's relatives was suffering complications from throat cancer. He had difficulty swallowing, and to avoid the challenge of taking one of his meds, he pulled apart the capsule, emptied the contents into his mouth and took a swig of water to wash it down. As a result, he ended up burning the tissue in his throat.
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Dammit, I'm a mod; not a lab rat!! >:(
:)
In all seriousness, though, it stands to reason that breaking open a capsule and swallowing the contents would yield faster absorption time, but after referencing the idea in my previous post, I'd like to qualify the notion with this warning:
It is NOT ADVISABLE to employ the above-mentioned practice with any kind of encapsulated medicine or supplement.
There are some compounds that can cause irritation or damage to the lining of the mouth and/or esophagus. I first learned that years ago when one of my Dad's relatives was suffering complications from throat cancer. He had difficulty swallowing, and to avoid the challenge of taking one of his meds, he pulled apart the capsule, emptied the contents into his mouth and took a swig of water to wash it down. As a result, he ended up burning the tissue in his throat.
That's why I was talking about the inhaler.
I don't think it will do that, otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell it.
I would try it myself, but its not available here.
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That's why I was talking about the inhaler.
I don't think it will do that, otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell it.
I would try it myself, but its not available here.
Sounds reasonable.
I don't suspect that plain caffeine from this or any other product would cause problems, either. I've seen straight caffeine powder for sale before.
However, I can't see this stuff tasting very good; maybe tolerable at best. Concentrated caffeine is usually pretty bitter.
I don't think you're missing out on anything. ;)
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Sounds reasonable.
I don't suspect that plain caffeine from this or any other product would cause problems, either. I've seen straight caffeine powder for sale before.
However, I can't see this stuff tasting very good; maybe tolerable at best. Concentrated caffeine is usually pretty bitter.
I don't think you're missing out on anything. ;)
Well it's caffeine after all. So nothing special.
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so the caffeine gum is pretty ok... kinda minty with a mildly off bitter flavour that i can't place
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so the caffeine gum is pretty ok... kinda minty with a mildly off bitter flavour that i can't place
Caffeine, by nature, tastes bitter.
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Caffeine, by nature, tastes bitter.
yeah maybe... anyway it's not bad... and i can feel the caffeine...
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yeah maybe... anyway it's not bad... and i can feel the caffeine...
Chewing gum by itself has cognitive benefits. It's not clearly understood, although some researchers attribute the act of gum-chewing to a phenomenon they call "mastication-induced arousal." There is also a host of other benefits.
http://www.3fatchicks.com/5-surprising-health-benefits-of-chewing-gum/
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/11/the-cognitive-benefits-of-chewing-gum/
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gum + caffeine = genius
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gum + caffeine = genius
Shh...
Don't give away our secrets!!
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I used to take jack3d 5 days a week for a year straight. About 2 months ago I noticed my heart rate, blood pressure and heart were all out of wack. My BP was really high, heart rate was about 100bpm and I was always feeling shortness of breath. I woke up one morning for work and felt really dizzy and BP was really high, ended up going to the ER and they said it was anxiety, bs!!
This whole issue has me really concerned about long term affects of this stuff
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I used to take jack3d 5 days a week for a year straight. About 2 months ago I noticed my heart rate, blood pressure and heart were all out of wack. My BP was really high, heart rate was about 100bpm and I was always feeling shortness of breath. I woke up one morning for work and felt really dizzy and BP was really high, ended up going to the ER and they said it was anxiety, bs!!
This whole issue has me really concerned about long term affects of this stuff
A lot of folks just can't handle (and thus, should avoid) certain stimulants.
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A lot of folks just can't handle (and thus, should avoid) certain stimulants.
Yes and anyways, it should be common sense that you should not take stimulants for years straight all year round.
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Yes and anyways, it should be common sense that you should not take stimulants for years straight all year round.
True.
They'll ban DMMA eventually. I don't like or agree with it, but they've got enough ammunition to pass all the restrictions they want.
Unlike the ephedra ban, though, I won't bother "stocking up" on this stuff before the ban goes into effect.
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True.
They'll ban DMMA eventually. I don't like or agree with it, but they've got enough ammunition to pass all the restrictions they want.
Unlike the ephedra ban, though, I won't bother "stocking up" on this stuff before the ban goes into effect.
Yeah it's crap anyways and doesn't help for fat burning IMO.
It's fucked up that they ban everything.
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Yeah it's crap anyways and doesn't help for fat burning IMO.
It's fucked up that they ban everything.
Yeah, that's my stance. Even though I personally don't use it, I don't like seeing more restrictions on dietary supplements.
Ephedra was the killer for me. The "evidence" they put together to justify the ban was laughable.
The FDA does what it wants.
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Yeah, that's my stance. Even though I personally don't use it, I don't like seeing more restrictions on dietary supplements.
Ephedra was the killer for me. The "evidence" they put together to justify the ban was laughable.
The FDA does what it wants.
It's all a big joke, played on us by pharma, tobacco and alcohol lobbyists that suck the governments big fat cock.
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It's all a big joke, played on us by pharma, tobacco and alcohol lobbyists that suck the governments big fat cock.
There is lots of accuracy in that statement.
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There is lots of accuracy in that statement.
I studied political science, lol....
No but honestly, people usually think corruption only exists in Africa or some poor shithole, what a big joke.
All western governments are corrupt as hell, the only point is that their price is so high that normal people lose sense of what is happening.
Look at how freely ex-politicians get "consulting" jobs or similar stuff, well they have been doing the industry favors for years, and still have their old buddies in the ministries. Sometimes the price is not money, but something else, power, things, a job for the kid.
The pharma industry is one of the biggest world wide, and supplements and health foods are starting to hurt their business, only a little, but a small dent can go far eventually. If people believe that sesamine caps, healthy food or sports lower their blood cholesterol as efficiently and with less side effects than medication, the pharma industry will lose BILLIONS of $$.
Pharma industry LOVES alcohol and tobacco industry, and I don't want to know how much money they put into fast food restaurants and other stuff...
Last but not least, the FDA are modern day Nazis, a Gestapo that decides upon what grwon up people can put into their bodies and what not, the governments have to stop regulating stuff that HAS safe usage protocols, in excess everything will be bad for you eventually.
Educate people to be more responsible, warn them but don't tell them what to do or not.
Fucking pisses me off to the nth degree.
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I studied political science, lol....
No but honestly, people usually think corruption only exists in Africa or some poor shithole, what a big joke.
All western governments are corrupt as hell, the only point is that their price is so high that normal people lose sense of what is happening.
Look at how freely ex-politicians get "consulting" jobs or similar stuff, well they have been doing the industry favors for years, and still have their old buddies in the ministries. Sometimes the price is not money, but something else, power, things, a job for the kid.
The pharma industry is one of the biggest world wide, and supplements and health foods are starting to hurt their business, only a little, but a small dent can go far eventually. If people believe that sesamine caps, healthy food or sports lower their blood cholesterol as efficiently and with less side effects than medication, the pharma industry will lose BILLIONS of $$.
Pharma industry LOVES alcohol and tobacco industry, and I don't want to know how much money they put into fast food restaurants and other stuff...
Last but not least, the FDA are modern day Nazis, a Gestapo that decides upon what grwon up people can put into their bodies and what not, the governments have to stop regulating stuff that HAS safe usage protocols, in excess everything will be bad for you eventually.
Educate people to be more responsible, warn them but don't tell them what to do or not.
Fucking pisses me off to the nth degree.
Well said!!
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Well said!!
Ahhh, what a nice feeling when a moderator does not constantly tell the posters that they are dumb as shit and then sends 2-3 pms that they will delete all posts of the person when they say anything against the mod....
Your presence is much appreciated, Monty!!
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Ahhh, what a nice feeling when a moderator does not constantly tell the posters that they are bumb as shit and then sends 2-3 pms that they will delete all posts of the person when they say anything against the mod....
Your presence is much appreciated, Monty!!
sigh, i kinda miss pumpster... ;D
NOT >:(
:)
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Ahhh, what a nice feeling when a moderator does not constantly tell the posters that they are bumb as shit and then sends 2-3 pms that they will delete all posts of the person when they say anything against the mod....
Your presence is much appreciated, Monty!!
LMAO!!
No problem.
sigh, i kinda miss pumpster... ;D
NOT >:(
:)
That, too; but, I think Kong was referring to the "Gorilla Whisperer."
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LMAO!!
No problem.
That, too; but, I think Kong was referring to the "Gorilla Whisperer."
;D ;D ;D ;D
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I studied political science, lol....
No but honestly, people usually think corruption only exists in Africa or some poor shithole, what a big joke.
All western governments are corrupt as hell, the only point is that their price is so high that normal people lose sense of what is happening.
Look at how freely ex-politicians get "consulting" jobs or similar stuff, well they have been doing the industry favors for years, and still have their old buddies in the ministries. Sometimes the price is not money, but something else, power, things, a job for the kid.
The pharma industry is one of the biggest world wide, and supplements and health foods are starting to hurt their business, only a little, but a small dent can go far eventually. If people believe that sesamine caps, healthy food or sports lower their blood cholesterol as efficiently and with less side effects than medication, the pharma industry will lose BILLIONS of $$.
Pharma industry LOVES alcohol and tobacco industry, and I don't want to know how much money they put into fast food restaurants and other stuff...
Last but not least, the FDA are modern day Nazis, a Gestapo that decides upon what grwon up people can put into their bodies and what not, the governments have to stop regulating stuff that HAS safe usage protocols, in excess everything will be bad for you eventually.
Educate people to be more responsible, warn them but don't tell them what to do or not.
Fucking pisses me off to the nth degree.
I'm reminded of a movie several years back called The Constant Gardener. i think I was half asleep through it, but recall it being incredibly disturbing re: gov't corruption & big pharma.
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I'm reminded of a movie several years back called The Constant Gardener. i think I was half asleep through it, but recall it being incredibly disturbing re: gov't corruption & big pharma.
I think we all don't really want to know what is going on there...
When you think about that the pharma companies are spending BILLIONS of $ on research against the "big killers", and are earning BILLIONS from medication against them, while tobacco, fast food, alcohol are causing EXACTLY those killers and earning BILLIONS on making people sick....
And Government is sitting in the middle filling their pockets from taxes and getting more power with making laws.
Get rid or make it harder to get alcohol, tobacco and put a hefty tax on unhealthy food (like in Europe in some countries!! 20% tax on sugary drinks in France!) and heart disease, stroke, obesity will come down without the need of big money...
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move to canada
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move to canada
That's a long drive for DK II.
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move to canada
I'm talking in general terms, the country that I live in doesn't give a shit about any medication you put into your body.
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Does anyone know the current status of the proposed FDA ban?
I noticed that one of my regular supplement suppliers lists the Primaforce brand as discontinued, although I suspect that other companies may soon follow.
While it is still available, users of Jack3d may wish to stock up in anticipation of the ban.
And, for anyone interested, DPSnutrition.com still has the Primaforce brand for sale.