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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on June 05, 2012, 11:38:36 AM
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get on record now! THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.
I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.
Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.
Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.
IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?
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get on record now! THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.
I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.
Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.
Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.
IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?
Tied in what polls? The RCP average has Walker up by 6.7
A recent WeAskAmerica poll of nearly 1700 likely voters has Walker up 54-42.
In fact, if you check the RCP poll used in that average, PPP is about the only poll that has Walker up by 3 or less (a couple have Barrett ahead). The rest have Walker up by 5 or more.
I'll go with Walker by 5 or 6.
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get on record now! THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.
I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.
Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.
Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.
IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?
It sure was a huge deal when the bills Walker was submitting were being pushed through, remember that? The protests and all the Union thug bullshit? And it sure was a huge deal when those signatures were achieved for the recall......you had "journalists" on MSNBC openly campaigning for Barrett, "Get Out the Vote"! and pulling all sorts of propaganda tricks...
And now with the election looking to go in Walkers favor by a solid margin................I guess the left doesn't think it's a big deal anymore.
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It sure was a huge deal when the bills Walker was submitting were being pushed through, remember that? The protests and all the Union thug bullshit? And it sure was a huge deal when those signatures were achieved for the recall......you had "journalists" on MSNBC openly campaigning for Barrett, "Get Out the Vote"! and pulling all sorts of propaganda tricks...
And now with the election looking to go in Walkers favor by a solid margin................I guess the left doesn't think it's a big deal anymore.
Obama, who was supposed to put on his marching shoes and protest with them, WON'T EVEN STEP FOOT IN WISCONSIN. He weakly endorsed Barrett by TWEET.
Clinton had a rally for Barrett, where less than a thousand people showed up.
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get on record now! THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.
I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.
Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.
Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.
IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?
OF COURSE IT MATTERS DUMBASS!
Most states are facin crushing pension and health care costs due to the intransignece of public sector unions which result of skyrocketing taxes.
If Walker wins, many other governors will emulate what he did and start finally dealing w reality of the disastrous public sector union benes and costs.
If he loses, its a frigging disaster since govs will be afraid to stand up to the public sector locusts.
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get on record now! THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.
I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.
Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.
Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.
IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?
it will serve as termperature gauge for the electorate
btw - Walker and his corporate benefactors outspent the Dem challenger by 10 to 1 (so I've heard) and that will probably also be true going forward
Post Citiznes United is an entirely different world where a few billionares can literally buy elections if they are willing to spend the money
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.........Not to Obama. Good thing he's always right ::)
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it will serve as termperature gauge for the electorate
btw - Walker and his corporate benefactors outspent the Dem challenger by 10 to 1 (so I've heard) and that will probably also be true going forward
Post Citiznes United is an entirely different world where a few billionares can literally buy elections if they are willing to spend the money
BIG DEAL!! The left is likely going to get beat with their own medicine.
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It sure was a huge deal when the bills Walker was submitting were being pushed through, remember that? The protests and all the Union thug bullshit? And it sure was a huge deal when those signatures were achieved for the recall......you had "journalists" on MSNBC openly campaigning for Barrett, "Get Out the Vote"! and pulling all sorts of propaganda tricks...
And now with the election looking to go in Walkers favor by a solid margin................I guess the left doesn't think it's a big deal anymore.
Isn't it funny how that works out? 240 himself was posting thread after thread casting Walker in a bad light but now he doesn't care. ::)
Apparently the unions aren't invincible.
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The Invisible Fist
The left braces for defeat in Wisconsin.
Ahead of tonight's Wisconsin recall results, there seems to be a consensus on the left that things aren't working out as planned. With polls consistently showing a lead for Gov. Scott Walker and Intrade giving him an almost 95% chance of surviving the vote, so-called progressives are bracing for defeat.
That chiefly means rationalizing away the expected result. The New Republic's Alec MacGillis, for one, argues that a victory for right-wing villain Walker will be good for President Obama in November: "a statement of grudging pro-incumbent sentiment in a time of cautious optimism about a painfully gradual economic recovery."
MacGillis notes that Wisconsin isn't the only Republican-governed state where the economy has been good by Obama-era standards:
Over and over in Ohio, I heard Democratic elected officials, party strategists and unions officials noting that the improving economy in Ohio--where unemployment is now at 7.5 percent, down from 10.6 percent in late 2009--would boost Obama's chances of holding the state this fall. But then nearly all would also concede, with varying degrees of despondency, that the improving economy was also helping Governor John Kasich climb out of the nadir of dismal public approval that he reached in the midst of his attack on collective bargaining, and would aid his odds of reelection in 2014. In essence, they said, the fates of Barack Obama and John Kasich were now to some degree linked, as incumbents in a long recovery from a deep recession.
You can see the logic here: Obama manages to capture a majority of electoral votes as GOP-governed swing states, doing better than the rest of the country economically, vote for him, along with Democratic-governed basket-case states like California and Illinois. (It's somewhat ironic that the latter part of this scenario almost certainly will occur.)
One reason to doubt the MacGillis narrative is that it takes no account of 2010, a year in which those swing states swung heavily toward the Republicans. Among the states generally considered 2012 toss-ups, Republicans picked up the statehouses in Iowa, Michigan, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and held those in Nevada and Florida. Only Colorado and New Hampshire elected Democratic governors. Republicans picked up House seats in every one of these states save Iowa, as well as in North Carolina and Virginia, which choose their governors in different years. And the GOP went 7-2 in swing-state U.S. Senate races.
There have been years in the past (1996, to take one example) in which incumbents of both parties have done well. But MacGillis's narrative implies two assumptions: first, that the outcomes of both the 2008 and the 2010 elections were simply the result of anti-incumbent sentiment owing to the parlous economy, without much ideological significance; second, that economic conditions have now improved sufficiently to yield an opposite result. Either of these assumptions should be viewed with skepticism, both together with incredulity.
The Hill, meanwhile, notes that as part of their "urgent damage-control efforts," Democrats and unions "pointed . . . to the fact that Democrats appear set to regain control of the state Senate." The Senate currently has 16 members of each party, along with one vacancy that will be filled today. Three other Senate Republicans are up for recall today, so that a single victory would give the Dems a majority in the chamber.
Such a victory would be a Pyrrhic one, however. As commenter Aaron Pilar notes, "Bwhaaa haa haa!!! . . . The Senate can not even go back into session before next winter unless called into special session by the Governor." The Assembly remains overwhelmingly Republican, and 16 senators, including 10 Democrats, are up for re-election this November in districts redrawn by the GOP-controlled Legislature. "So it is very possible, even likely, that the democrats [sic] could take control of a senate that never even meets before they are kicked out in November."
If you're drinking while reading this, now would be a good time to swallow. In a Washington Post column, Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of the hard-left Nation, claims that the anti-Walker effort isn't really about winning:
The real story is the 15 months of people power leading up to this day. The real lesson lies in more than a year of progressive organizing, petitioning, canvassing and campaigning for the cause. The real result is a progressive movement that is deeper and broader than before. . . .
And the effects have rippled outward. The sight of 70,000 protesters--teachers, firefighters, nurses, students, parents with children--occupying the Wisconsin State Capitol in February 2011 ignited activists around the country. Just as the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt motivated people around the world, including in Wisconsin, the occupation of the Madison statehouse helped inspire the occupation of Wall Street a few months later.
Yeah, remember when the progs changed the world by sleeping in parks? Neither do we.
Vanden Heuvel's "ignited" metaphor is rather crass, given that the Arab Spring began when a Tunisian man literally set himself on fire. But there's something to the Arab Spring analogy. The outcomes in Tunis and Cairo have been as disappointing to those who hoped liberal democracy would bloom as the Wisconsin denouement is likely to be to those who thought it was a genuinely popular left-labor resurgence.
The New York Times's David Brooks, an Obama-loving moderate conservative with a genuine reformist streak, notes that the president "has hung back from the Wisconsin race," and adds: "I'm hoping that's not crass political opportunism but an acknowledgment that governments do have to confront their unaffordable commitments." That's a vain hope if ever there was one (though "opportunism" hardly describes Obama's reticence; he's avoiding risk rather than seizing opportunity).
On the other hand, even in the unlikely event that Walker is defeated, Big Labor will have lost. "Let's face it--I wasn't the candidate for the public unions," Walker's opponent, Mayor Tom Barrett of Milwaukee, said during a debate. And according to Politico, he said it "proudly," noting that he defeated the union-favored candidate in the Democratic primary.
Politico notes that Barrett has so determinedly avoided the subject that "the issue of collective bargaining has become just a footnote." A poll last month showed that Wisconsin voters opposed so-called collective bargaining for most government employees, 55% to 41%, and "Barrett has sought to assure voters he won't be a pawn for the state's labor unions."
The repeal of Walker's reforms would require not only that a Gov. Barrett go against this promise, but also that the Democrats capture both houses of the Legislature this November. A likelier outcome of a Barrett victory would be to accelerate bipartisan acceptance of the necessary diminution of government unions.
If Barrett wins, we expect a change of tune from the lefties who are now downplaying the recall's importance. They'll insist such a result is an excellent omen for Obama in November. They may even be right about that--though it's a big if.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303830204577448564073132238.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_MIDDLETopOpinion
This about sums up 240 the Scumbag and Co.
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Isn't it funny how that works out? 240 himself was posting thread after thread casting Walker in a bad light but now he doesn't care. ::)
Apparently the unions aren't invincible.
240 has exposed himself this last week.
Dude has gone into full on Democratic shill mode.
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BIG DEAL!! The left is likely going to get beat with their own medicine.
Wisconsin aside, the Citizens United case is a BIG DEAL in the destruction of democracy in this country and I don't care what side of the aisle you're on
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Wisconsin aside, the Citizens United case is a BIG DEAL in the destruction of democracy in this country and I don't care what side of the aisle you're on
It's a big deal to liberals. They don't like it because NOW they're not the only ones that can rake in the cash from outside sources.
As long as the rules are the same for both sides, the left doesn't like it.
There is no destruction of democracy. The playing field has been leveled somewhat. And, as usual, the left (for all their yapping about "fairness") don't want such applied when it leads to them losing.
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Obama, who was supposed to put on his marching shoes and protest with them, WON'T EVEN STEP FOOT IN WISCONSIN. He weakly endorsed Barrett by TWEET.
Clinton had a rally for Barrett, where less than a thousand people showed up.
To be fair on that note, there was barely any notice (about 24 hours maybe) I don't think time and location was even announced until a couple of hours beforehand.
BIG DEAL!! The left is likely going to get beat with their own medicine.
HUGE voter turnout (polls close in 5 minutes). When I was there, media was saying pushing 75% (my district was at ~68%).
Personally, I hope they get their a$$ kicked! This bullshit has gone on long enough.
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To be fair on that note, there was barely any notice (about 24 hours maybe) I don't think time and location was even announced until a couple of hours beforehand.
HUGE voter turnout (polls close in 5 minutes). When I was there, media was saying pushing 75% (my district was at ~68%).
Personally, I hope they get their a$$ kicked! This bullshit has gone on long enough.
Well, no one ever accused you of mincing words, Princess. ;D
Drudge has exit polls results. So far, per those exit polls, Walker is up by 5. Fox reports that, per exit polls, Barrett is up 8 among college students; Walker is up 10 among Catholic voters. Both are higher leads in their respective categories than their matchup in 2010.
Right now, Fox News says it's too close to call. Hannity is interviewing Lt. Gov (for now, at least) Rebecca Kleefisch.
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It's a big deal to liberals. They don't like it because NOW they're not the only ones that can rake in the cash from outside sources.
As long as the rules are the same for both sides, the left doesn't like it.
There is no destruction of democracy. The playing field has been leveled somewhat. And, as usual, the left (for all their yapping about "fairness") don't want such applied when it leads to them losing.
it's bad for all sides because it allows unlimited to cash for ANYONE (even foreign corporations) to influence our election. You may think that this is good for you now if you're in favor of Walker (who spent 10 times the amount of money that his opponent did) but eventually there will be a situation where you're on the other side of the group spending the money
Anyone who cares about democracy should not be in favor of a handful of individuals who can spend unlimited amounts of money to essentially hijack democracy
that's if you actually care about democracy
If you don't then I can see why you would like this
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it's bad for all sides because it allows unlimited to cash for ANYONE (even foreign corporations) to influence our election. You may think that this is good for you now if you're in favor of Walker (who spent 10 times the amount of money that his opponent did) but eventually there will be a situation where you're on the other side of the group spending the money
Anyone who cares about democracy should not be in favor of a handful of individuals who can spend unlimited amounts of money to essentially hijack democracy
that's if you actually care about democracy
If you don't then I can see why you would like this
I dont like the money aspect. The problem is, they always find ways around the rules.
I dont know what the answer is.
Unlimited cash may be the answer, because at least it a level playing field.
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Wisconsin aside, the Citizens United case is a BIG DEAL in the destruction of democracy in this country and I don't care what side of the aisle you're on
Stop crying, you fucking baby. What's the matter? Upset that the unions aren't the only ones with money to throw around now?
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
Take a look at that list and jog on, crybaby.
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I dont like the money aspect. The problem is, they always find ways around the rules.
I dont know what the answer is.
Unlimited cash may be the answer, because at least it a level playing field.
My sentiments exactly!!
The left uses this tactic on a regular basis. The Supreme Court's decision on Citizens United allows the right to fight fire with fire.
Besides, look at the marriage amendments. In nearly every state, the gay "marriage" supporters outspend their opponents 2 to 1 (in Florida, it was about 3 to 1). Yet, they're 0-32.
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Stop crying, you fucking baby. What's the matter? Upset that the unions aren't the only ones with money to throw around now?
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
Take a look at that list and jog on, crybaby.
who's crying
I'm stating my opinion and it's the same opinion I've had all along
Below this sentence I've listed all the name of people who have given anonymous and unlimited money to PACS (on both sides) which will be used to undermine your democratic process
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Fox News says the results should be coming shortly.
With 6% reporting Walker and Kleefisch are both up by at least 15 points. But, it's officially still "too close to call".
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Currently only 4% reporting. Long ways to go... sigh
The (unofficial) voter fraud going on today in Milwaukee is scary. Of course we have no voter ID requirement (more bullshit).
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Currently only 4% reporting. Long ways to go... sigh
I got 8% reporting, according to Fox. Walker's up 18; Kleefisch is up 16.
I don't think they've counted Madison or the other liberal cities and counties yet. If they have, it's all over but the crying. As of now, however, it's too close to call.
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Currently only 4% reporting. Long ways to go... sigh
The (unofficial) voter fraud going on today in Milwaukee is scary. Of course we have no voter ID requirement (more bullshit).
10% reporting, Walker is up 22, Kleefisch up 18. If this holds, it won't matter. An @$$-beating takes away any voter fraud that the left can generate.
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I got 8% reporting, according to Fox. Walker's up 18; Kleefisch is up 16.
I don't think they've counted Madison or the other liberal cities and counties yet. If they have, it's all over but the crying. As of now, however, it's too close to call.
Wait for Dane, Milwaukee, Ozaukee, Washington and Waukesha counties. Unfortunately, they historically are the last to report, especially Waukesha (R).
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Wait for Dane, Milwaukee, Ozaukee, Washington and Waukesha counties. Unfortunately, they historically are the last to report, especially Waukesha (R).
That's why I figure Walker is up 22 and Kleefisch 20, with 12% reporting.
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Walker leading Milwaukee :o
;D
Long way to go...
13% total in, only 4% in for Milw.
61%(R)(i)
39%(D)
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Walker leading Milwaukee :o
;D
Long way to go...
13% total in, only 4% in for Milw.
I got 16%, Wallker still up 22, Kleefisch 20.
BTW, who is this Trivedi guy/gal?
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I got 16%, Wallker still up 22, Kleefisch 20.
BTW, who is this Trivedi guy/gal?
???
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???
This Trivedi guy/gal has 1% of the vote. 21% in and Walker's up by 23. Hannity says they expect to call it within a few minutes.
If (or when) Walker wins this, turn to MSNBC and watch the weeping and teeth-gnashing, especially by Ed Schultz....and be prepared for some laughs.
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This Trivedi guy/gal has 1% of the vote. 21% in and Walker's up by 23. Hannity says they expect to call it within a few minutes.
If (or when) Walker wins this, turn to MSNBC and watch the weeping and teeth-gnashing, especially by Ed Schultz....and be prepared for some laughs.
Im waiting for Benny B's inevitable Chernobyl meltdown.
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This Trivedi guy/gal has 1% of the vote. 21% in and Walker's up by 23. Hannity says they expect to call it within a few minutes.
If (or when) Walker wins this, turn to MSNBC and watch the weeping and teeth-gnashing, especially by Ed Schultz....and be prepared for some laughs.
There's always one nutjob out there. Probably just wants to have his name associated with history. He barely speaks English.
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Im waiting for Benny B's inevitable Chernobyl meltdown.
Well, it ain't going to be here. That spineless hack doesn't like playing with the big boys. You're going to have to travel to G&O to hear his sniveling on this one.
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Well, it ain't going to be here. That spineless hack doesn't like playing with the big boys. You're going to have to travel to G&O to hear his sniveling on this one.
Not ;)
watch the bouncing ball
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Not ;)
watch the bouncing ball
CNN is breaking it down. Check my new thread! ;D
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It's a big deal to liberals. They don't like it because NOW they're not the only ones that can rake in the cash from outside sources.
As long as the rules are the same for both sides, the left doesn't like it.
There is no destruction of democracy. The playing field has been leveled somewhat. And, as usual, the left (for all their yapping about "fairness") don't want such applied when it leads to them losing.
You think the Supreme Court made the right decision on the Citizens United case?
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You think the Supreme Court made the right decision on the Citizens United case?
YEP!!! Now, it's even-steven. The left gets outside money; now, so can the right. And on a level playing field, under the same rules, the results speak for themselves.
You wouldn't hear a peep from the left, if they spend tons of loot in a victory. As stated earlier, in cases like state marriage amendments, the left outspends the right YET THEY STILL LOSE.
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Not ;)
watch the bouncing ball
:)
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CNN is breaking it down. Check my new thread! ;D
I prefer to watch my locals who seem to be ... more realistic.
I can hear them (D) tomorrow ::) bitching about how all those who wanted to vote couldn't because of running out of ballots or some shit.
Meanwhile, a "record number" of new registrants today ::) (Milwaukee Cty) with people standing around the polls holding up cards with their addresses offering them in exchange for cigarettes and such. Again, no voter ID required ::)
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I prefer to watch my locals who seem to be ... more realistic.
I can hear them (D) tomorrow ::) bitching about how all those who wanted to vote couldn't because of running out of ballots or some shit.
Meanwhile, a "record number" of new registrants today ::) (Milwaukee Cty) with people standing around the polls holding up cards with their addresses offering them in exchange for cigarettes and such. Again, no voter ID required ::)
I saw ThinkProgress bragging about 119% turnout in Madison.
(http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Screen-shot-2012-06-05-at-8.19.41-PM-550x211.png)
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You think the Supreme Court made the right decision on the Citizens United case?
STFU troll. you leftists morons always have an excuse.
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There are STILL people standing in line waiting to vote (Milwaukee, Racine & Dane counties)
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it will serve as termperature gauge for the electorate
btw - Walker and his corporate benefactors outspent the Dem challenger by 10 to 1 (so I've heard) and that will probably also be true going forward
Post Citiznes United is an entirely different world where a few billionares can literally buy elections if they are willing to spend the money
Where were you with this horseshit whining when Obama outspent McCain? I guess Obama bought the election in 2008. Right?
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I ddin't know Walker outspent the dem 12-to-1.
Of course he's gonna win with that kind of money.
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I ddin't know Walker outspent the dem 12-to-1.
Of course he's gonna win with that kind of money.
GEEZUS F'N $#!
The bylaws state that if you attack an incumbent, they are allowed to defend their position and YES they get the advantage.
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Barrett conceding now.
8)
hmmm
Where were those million (cough cough) people who signed the recall petitions?
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Does wisconsin matter? HEHEHEHE!!!! If it didn't matter then what was the point of the recall?
If the Democrat had won you wouldn't be asking.
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Barrett conceding now.
8)
hmmm
Where were those million (cough cough) people who signed the recall petitions?
Most of those were fake fraudulent docs.
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Most of those were fake fraudulent docs.
That's the only way that the Democratic party can win any election.
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Most of those were fake fraudulent docs.
(http://jksaur.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/no-wai001.jpg)
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You think the Supreme Court made the right decision on the Citizens United case?
corporations are people my friend
Jesus died for the sins of corporations like Exxon and BP
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corporations are people my friend
Jesus died for the sins of corporations like Exxon and BP
LOL. Always an excuse. Don't you grasp that you ideology. Is failed?
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Where were you with this horseshit whining when Obama outspent McCain? I guess Obama bought the election in 2008. Right?
YES. If their money was equal, it would have gone down to the wire. Mccain was stuck with public money. Obama had so much money he couldn't spend it all at the end - remember the 30 minute commercial in every state on network TV... all while mccain was splitting his last $ up between battleground states?
of course Obama won in 2008 because he had more money. Common sense.
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LOL. Always an excuse. Don't you grasp that you ideology. Is failed?
english please
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english please
Landslide coming in November.
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corporations are people my friend
Jesus died for the sins of corporations like Exxon and BP
HEHEHE. Poor imbecile.
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YES. If their money was equal, it would have gone down to the wire. Mccain was stuck with public money. Obama had so much money he couldn't spend it all at the end - remember the 30 minute commercial in every state on network TV... all while mccain was splitting his last $ up between battleground states?
of course Obama won in 2008 because he had more money. Common sense.
More money doesn't equate to victory; I believe I mentioned the biggest example of that earlier.
With that said, McCain learned the hard way that you DO NOT let the left define the rules of engagement. Thanks to the Citizens United ruling, conservatives can get ALL the campaign $$$$ they need to go toe-to-toe with their liberal opponents. And, THAT'S what has the lefties FUMING!!!
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More money doesn't equate to victory;
A stunning 94% of the time, the candidate who spends the most money on their campaign wins the election
I'm sure as it goes from a 1.1-to-1 ratio, up to a 12-to-1 ratio, the odds of the bigger spender winning goes up too ;)
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Wisconsin speaks. Again.
By endorsing Walker's cost cuts, taxpayers make public spending nationwide an issue for Nov. 6 and beyond
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-wisconsin-20120606,0,5928310.story
With their ballots Tuesday, a majority of Wisconsin voters endorsed dramatic changes Gov. Scott Walker has delivered: Taxpayers see the $1 billion in taxpayer money that Walker's ideas have empowered state and local officials to save. They see that property taxes have fallen on his watch. They see that, rather than decimating government workforces, the cost-cutting has averted layoffs of many teachers and other public employees.
Through his signature Act 10, which became law not quite a year ago, Walker and his legislative allies have restructured how state and local governments work — the scope of their activities and the compensation they pay. This is the fourth election, beginning with the general election of 2010, in which Wisconsinites essentially have said they support that aggressive restructuring.
Many of those voters also expect that, going forward, the dividends for Wisconsin residents, their school districts and other governments will continue to grow. As old labor contracts expire, public officials will write into the new contracts the other Walker-inspired personnel provisions — such as higher (but still relatively inexpensive) employees' contributions to their pension and health plans — that have lowered government expenses. New labor pacts, that is, should keep reducing government costs across Wisconsin.
On Tuesday evening, CBS News issued early exit polling results that attest to how sophisticated the voters immersed in this passionate Wisconsin debate over taxes and spending have become. And how sharply divided they are. The Wisconsin electorate spends its time bivouacked in battle-ready encampments.
Some 54 percent of voters told pollsters they have a favorable view of government employees unions; 43 percent do not. That said, some 50 percent of voters approve of Walker's restrictions to collective bargaining; 48 percent do not. More generally, CBS reported, 54 percent of voters think government should have a more limited role in solving problems; 42 percent say government should do more.
But the rancor preceding Tuesday's election, the strong voter turnout and the urgency for both sides to explain What This Means will influence the five months between now and Nov. 6. Democratic and Republican pols coast to coast see taxpayers in traditionally liberal-leaning, high-taxes, high-services Wisconsin saying they want to cut government costs, debts and compensation. The American Enterprise Institute calculates that even after Act 10, the source of so many accusations of oppression, the average state worker receives wages and benefits of $81,637, versus $67,068 for a similarly skilled private sector worker. X minus Y equals (gulp) $14,569.
On Tuesday, a majority of the voters who for a year and a half have spent the most time weighing those sorts of numbers reaffirmed that they think their Wisconsin governments had grown too elephantine, too expensive.
There's another elephant in the room: Act 10 ended the compulsory collection of union dues by government employers. It turns out that when workers have a free choice of whether to keep paying, many decide that it isn't worth the money. We were surprised last week by a Wall Street Journal report that Wisconsin membership in the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees plummeted from 62,818 in March 2011 to 28,745 in February 2012. At the American Federation of Teachers, 6,000 of 17,000 Wisconsin members have walked away.
Drop-offs that stark have implications not only for the unions, but also for politicians who rely on union donations to fund their campaigns.
After Walker's victory, the implication of which we're surest is this: Government spending and taxpayer debt, the issues that spectacularly animated the politics of the 2010 election cycle, will be potent in 2012. Wisconsin is but one reason. Turmoil in European nations that spent and borrowed themselves into disaster will focus Americans on what can happen when public officials spend money they don't have.
Wisconsin voters again have affirmed their decision:
Spending discipline is the order of the day.
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White House Wisconsin Spin Won’t Wash
Jonathan S. Tobin | @tobincommentary 06.06.2012 - 1:30 AM
Given the decisive nature of Scott Walker’s recall victory, it’s not likely that Democrats who were prepared to cry foul if they lost in a squeaker will be talking about a “stolen election” after he won with 54 percent of the vote. Instead, the main Democratic talking point in the days after their recall debacle will be to claim that not only is it not a harbinger of more defeats in November but that it may not even have an impact on how Wisconsin will vote for president. Democrats were encouraged by exit polls that showed President Obama holding a big lead over Mitt Romney among recall voters. However, any liberal enthusiasm about the finding is bound to be diminished by the fact those polls were obviously skewed toward Democrats because the 50-50 split they predicted on the recall was disastrously wrong.
But the White House spin that the recall will have no impact on what happens in the fall is not just wrong because of the faulty exit polls. After months of attempts to interpret Republican and Democratic primary results in terms of their predictive value for a general election, Wisconsin didn’t just provide the country with its first partisan matchup of the year. It was the most bitterly contested state election in years, with money pouring in on both sides from around the country. And rather than being a test of personalities as most elections generally prove to be, the attempt by the unions and their liberal allies to take Walker’s scalp as revenge for his legislative achievements provided the country with a clear ideological battle. In a straightforward battle between liberals and conservatives, the latter won in a state that President Obama carried by 14 points in 2008. Anyone who thinks Obama isn’t in for the fight of his life there this year just isn’t paying attention.
It is true that the size of Walker’s victory was in no small measure the result of moderate disgust at a union vendetta that was rightly seen as an attempt to override the verdict of the voters in 2010. Some of those who cast ballots for Walker may wind up drifting back to the Democrats in November to back President Obama. Yet the Democratic defeat — and the widespread dismay by liberals at the way the president gave the recall his half-hearted support will have repercussions for his party.
Walker’s win is just one more of a string of recent events that are starting to convince the nation that Obama is likely to be a one-term president. Along with the growing list of economic statistics that make a summer economic recovery unlikely, the stunning conservative victory in Wisconsin will make it harder for the president to claim that Republican solutions are unpopular or that support for entitlement reform is a sign of extremism.
Instead of merely a local political fight that got national coverage, the failed recall may prove to be a decisive moment in an election that looked only a few months ago to be the president’s to lose. Though five months is a lifetime in politics, Wisconsin could be the moment when Mitt Romney’s campaign moves into overdrive and the rickety nature of the Obama re-election effort becomes manifest. The presidential election wasn’t won in Wisconsin on June 5, but the recall may be best remembered in the future as the tipping point that transformed Obama from a likely winner to an incumbent headed to one-term status.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/06/06/white-house-wisconsin-spin-wont-wash-obama-scott-walker
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452793597495290.html
Obama = slammed.
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Tied in what polls? The RCP average has Walker up by 6.7
A recent WeAskAmerica poll of nearly 1700 likely voters has Walker up 54-42.
In fact, if you check the RCP poll used in that average, PPP is about the only poll that has Walker up by 3 or less (a couple have Barrett ahead). The rest have Walker up by 5 or more.
I'll go with Walker by 5 or 6.
:D
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Analysis: Conservatives used tactics of the left in Wisconsin win
By Nick Carey | Reuters – Wed, Jun 6, 2012
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MADISON, Wisconsin (Reuters) - Activists with the conservative Tea Party movement say they owe a lot to their schooling in left-wing community organizing tactics for the historic Republican victory over the Democrats and their union allies in the Wisconsin recall election.
While the Democrats said huge campaign spending by conservatives supporters of Republican Scott Walker allowed him on Tuesday to become the first governor in U.S. history to survive a recall election, the Republicans point to their grassroots, get-out-the-vote work as more important.
"Advertising can only do so much," said Ned Ryun, head of the national conservative group American Majority, whose sister group American Majority Action worked closely with Wisconsin activists. "But talking to someone face to face is a game changer."
Combine that personal contact with energizing a mass movement of door knockers and the latest phone software technology to track voters and you have many of the ingredients for the victory, they say.
The conservative activists have literally taken a page out of a left-wing radical's guide to organizing - as many have read the late Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."
Born in 1909 in Chicago, Alinsky - who died in 1972 - began his organizing career in the city's poor Back of the Yards district and is widely considered the founder of modern community organizing.
"There was no manual for organizing on the right, so we adapted it to the conservative cause," said Brown, of We the People of the Republic, a Tea Party group based in Madison, Wisconsin. "The left has been good at it for 100 years, so what better place to start?"
Labor unions and liberal activists forced the recall election against Walker because of his successful effort last year to curb the collective bargaining powers of public sector workers in the Midwestern U.S. state famous for its beer, cheese and Harley-Davidson motorcycles.
The unions, with a reputation for excelling at grass-roots organizing, not only failed to oust Walker - but he beat his Democratic challenger, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, by an even bigger margin than his 2010 gubernatorial victory.
Out-of-state conservatives flooded Wisconsin with tens of millions of dollars in campaign cash in an election seen as a barometer of the American political mood ahead of the November 6 presidential election. Walker outspend Barrett by more than 7-to-1.
Leading U.S. conservative donors made donations to boost Walker.
Luke Hilgemann, Wisconsin state director of Americans for Prosperity, which is backed by conservative billionaire brothers David and Charles Koch, said the group coordinated a network of some 100,000 local activists. Most of their efforts centered on 17 key counties.
Money alone doesn't win elections. In the three weeks before the election, Walker benefited from a disciplined get-out-the-vote drive mounted by people associated with the Tea Party movement, which reviles President Barack Obama. Wisconsin could be a key battleground state in the November 6 election as Obama seeks re-election against Republican Mitt Romney.
A lot of the campaign cash bankrolled a wave of pro-Walker advertising. Exit polls taken on Tuesday, however, indicated the ads may not have been a decisive factor; nearly 90 percent of voters say they chose their candidate before the ad barrage.
"Not only is the Tea Party alive and kicking, those guys ran a great get-out-the-vote campaign," said Ford O'Connell, a Republican strategist and chairman of the CivicForum PAC political group. "They have given away the secret recipe for what could win the election for Mitt Romney."
"This is a paradigm shift," added Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, a conservative group chaired by former Republican House of Representatives Majority leader Dick Armey that provides training and resources to Tea Party activists. "If the grassroots embrace a cause, they make all the difference."
UNION FAULTS
Analysts said Democrats and unions made fundamental mistakes in Wisconsin. Instead of uniting behind one candidate to challenge Walker, Democrats waged a divisive primary and most unions did not back the eventual winner Tom Barrett, who has had his own disputes with unions as mayor of Milwaukee.
The Democrats lost valuable time and money while Walker was traveling the country collecting millions of dollars to back his election effort. They also may have miscalculated in choosing Barrett, who previously had lost to Walker in 2010.
"If they are going to recall a governor, it hardly makes sense to try to challenge him with a candidate who lost against him last time," said Marick Masters, a professor of business and director of labor studies at Wayne State University in Detroit.
On Wednesday, top labor leaders such as AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka and Teamsters General President Jim Hoffa were not acknowledging any mistakes publicly and dismissed the idea that events in Wisconsin had a broad implications for the labor movement's future.
"Walker needed every last dime and every last divisive TV ad to maintain a weakened hold on his office," Trumka said.
Success in Wisconsin this year came with the aid of technology such as a new get-out-the-vote app called Gravity that American Majority Action provided free to Tea Party activists, as conservatives targeted like-minded voters.
Prior to the election, Tea Party activists reported encountering voters who backed Walker but would be out of state on the day of the election. So activists helped them fill out absentee ballots.
"We would have lost those votes if we hadn't showed up," said Matt Batzel, state director of American Majority Action. "That's what this is all about."
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YES. If their money was equal, it would have gone down to the wire. Mccain was stuck with public money. Obama had so much money he couldn't spend it all at the end - remember the 30 minute commercial in every state on network TV... all while mccain was splitting his last $ up between battleground states?
of course Obama won in 2008 because he had more money. Common sense.
Hey retard-- do some digging into how the Osama admin has taken full advantage of the Supreme Court decision for their own benefit.
You probably wont bc your a lazy, functionally illiterate slob who would be better suited as a parrot than a human being.
If I give you some bird seed spiked with poison, will you post some pictures and screen shots of the Matt T episode? Adonis needs some company as the boards lamest, most emotionally fragile poster.
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Hey retard-- do some digging into how the Osama admin has taken full advantage of the Supreme Court decision for their own benefit.
You probably wont bc your a lazy, functionally illiterate slob who would be better suited as a parrot than a human being.
If I give you some bird seed spiked with poison, will you post some pictures and screen shots of the Matt T episode? Adonis needs some company as the boards lamest, most emotionally fragile poster.
Oh, Whorewell. Where did it all go so wrong for you?