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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Vince G, CSN MFT on June 13, 2012, 02:19:53 PM
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Wow, filed Chapter 7 at that.....millions of dollars of debt and more layoffs....tough season for solar
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what's the deal with this? Cheap solar flooding the market from China?
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what's the deal with this? Cheap solar flooding the market from China?
Pretty much. All of the tax credits and everything has increased demand, the problem is that demand is being satiated by cheap imports from China. There are several companies that manufacture those solar panels in the U.S., though.
A further look shows they didn't build silicon based cells but rather uses thermal reactive polymers...plastics that can conduct heat etc. My guess is that these were simply to expense when compared to standard silicon cells. If the tech is worth anything it will get snapped up.
But these companies like this that go belly-up is that the artificial consumer demand created by subsidies, credits creates an over capacity problem as well.
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undoubtedly an attempt to sucker someone into bringing obama into this so cumdrum can say that it was bush who funded this company...
LOL you morons are so obvious
hmmm so konarka the one president bush funded lasted how many years longer than solyndra the one obama did?
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so what's the solution that would enable American solar companies to profit? and this carries over to many other industries too. With Chinese cheap solar flooding the market, what's the answer? I'm not interested in "haha, Obama funded, Bush funded this that company bla bla"
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so what's the solution that would enable American solar companies to profit? and this carries over to many other industries too. With Chinese cheap solar flooding the market, what's the answer? I'm not interested in "haha, Obama funded, Bush funded this that company bla bla"
I dont know enough about the industry to tell you one way or the other.
I think one thing that will help is time, the fact is solar isnt a viable source for the majority of ppl due to its high price tag and low efficiency.
There are much more cost effective ways to obtain energy. Until green energy gets to the point where it is cost effective ppl will still choose gas, coal, oil etc...
this is something ive been saying about the green movement for years. They try to make it about the ecosystem, the majority of ppl dont give 2 shits about what the world will look like in 150 years.
Now if you tell me I could save a hundred bucks a month and not miss a beat with power, reliability and efficiency...I'll buy into that.
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I dont know enough about the industry to tell you one way or the other.
I think one thing that will help is time, the fact is solar isnt a viable source for the majority of ppl due to its high price tag and low efficiency.
There are much more cost effective ways to obtain energy. Until green energy gets to the point where it is cost effective ppl will still choose gas, coal, oil etc...
this is something ive been saying about the green movement for year. They try to make it about the ecosystem, the majority of ppl dont give 2 shits about what the world will look like in 150 years.
Now if you tell me I could save a hundred bucks a month and not miss a beat with power, reliability and efficiency...I'll buy into that.
well there is a buying market for solar, that's a fact. If the market is dominated by cheap shit from China, my question was; what is the solution to that so that American solar companies can profit from the market that exists? I didn't ask about why people on the grid arn't buying solar. I asked what American solar companies have to do to compete in the market that is there now. I guess the answer is don't start a solar company because cheap chinese shit will ruin your plan. That's unacceptable, especially since this same concept goes across the board into all American industry now. So what needs to happen so Americans can start a company in America and profit? It's a good question!
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well there is a buying market for solar, that's a fact. If the market is dominated by cheap shit from China, my question was; what is the solution to that so that American solar companies can profit from the market that exists? I didn't ask about why people on the grid arn't buying solar. I asked what American solar companies have to do to compete in the market that is there now. I guess the answer is don't start a solar company because cheap chinese shit will ruin your plan. That's unacceptable, especially since this same concept goes across the board into all American industry now. So what needs to happen so Americans can start a company in America and profit? It's a good question!
I don't believe it is possible. We just need to concentrate on making things that can be manufactured by using raw materials that are exclusive to us. If labor is the only determining factor, we will get smoked every time by cheap sweat shops.
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making things that can be manufactured by using raw materials that are exclusive to us.
and that doesn't work either. If we have materials they don't have the companies in possession will just sell them toward the demand. That is Chinese companies buying the material, not American companies. The cheap labor still ends up the end factor.
I would like to hear from the board conservatives on this. It's a good question and deserves a conversation. Tony already foiled Vince's grand plans so lets talk about the angle of this that is important to us all.
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well there is a buying market for solar, that's a fact. If the market is dominated by cheap shit from China, my question was; what is the solution to that so that American solar companies can profit from the market that exists? I didn't ask about why people on the grid arn't buying solar. I asked what American solar companies have to do to compete in the market that is there now. I guess the answer is don't start a solar company because cheap chinese shit will ruin your plan. That's unacceptable, especially since this same concept goes across the board into all American industry now. So what needs to happen so Americans can start a company in America and profit? It's a good question!
it is a good question and you hit the nail on the head, Can A company start a solar company and be profitable in america?
again I dont know enough about the ins and outs of this specific industry to state specifics but as you mentioned all industries we can start there.
Labor is much cheaper in china than the US, regulations(safety, pay, benefits, enviromental, financial etc.) also give china a upper hand.
the answer is the same answer for what I said about private use of solar. Make it cheaper to produce these things here and companies will do so.
Companies care about their bottom line, if you show them that producing here will positively impact their bottom line they will produce here.
Right now due to the factors I mentioned and many others make it cheaper to produce in other countries.
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it is a good question and you hit the nail on the head, Can A company start a solar company and be profitable in america?
again I dont know enough about the ins and outs of this specific industry to state specifics but as you mentioned all industries we can start there.
Labor is much cheaper in china than the US, regulations(safety, pay, benefits, enviromental, financial etc.) also give china a upper hand.
the answer is the same answer for what I said about private use of solar. Make it cheaper to produce these things here and companies will do so.
Companies care about their bottom line, if you show them that producing here will positively impact their bottom line they will produce here.
Right now due to the factors I mentioned and many others make it cheaper to produce in other countries.
Is that really very fair? Is that really what needs to happen? For an American company to be competitive, Americans all have to accept lower standards, lower wages, longer work days etc..? Essentially the end result of what you're saying is that we have to lower ourselves to Chinese conditions so the companies can profit here at home as though they were doing buisness with China. Isn't there another way? One that doesn't screw Americans? Other countries do it all the time but it's taboo here? We use to do it too... Tariffs and shit?
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yea, and why the fuck are American companies building up China and at the same time we're worried about them as an upcoming superpower and threat to America. Didn't we already do this with Japan? Now we're doing it again? All fucking day long I hear about how important this shithole in the middle east is to national security. Bullshit... Nothing in the fucking middle east matters jack squat. We could let all of them kill eachother and nobody would give a fucking rats ass, or they shouldn't anyway. While we talk about catching some douchebag with a diaper bomb, China builds their military off of our fucking dollar. ::) Where is the real national security threat.... Right here at home with our own policies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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so what's the solution that would enable American solar companies to profit? and this carries over to many other industries too. With Chinese cheap solar flooding the market, what's the answer? I'm not interested in "haha, Obama funded, Bush funded this that company bla bla"
Yeah, that must be it. ::)
It probably has nothing to do with the fact that solar energy is a demonstrable disaster.
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Yeah, that must be it. ::)
It probably has nothing to do with the fact that solar energy is a demonstrable disaster.
What must be what? What are you freaking talking about? Why the eye roll? I asked a reasonable question. I didn't make some grand conclusions. Take your attitude and shove it up your ass.
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what is a disaster with solar? Do you even know anything about solar GW? What doesn't work with solar energy? Be prepared to have your ass smashed in half on this.
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what year did the govt start giving tax dollars to energy firms, picking and choosing which firms get the money?
2009?
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what year did the govt start giving tax dollars to energy firms, picking and choosing which firms get the money?
2009?
are you getting ready to pick up what failed for Vince? Tony already spoiled this a couple posts above lol...
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Is that really very fair? Is that really what needs to happen? For an American company to be competitive, Americans all have to accept lower standards, lower wages, longer work days etc..? Essentially the end result of what you're saying is that we have to lower ourselves to Chinese conditions so the companies can profit here at home as though they were doing buisness with China. Isn't there another way? One that doesn't screw Americans? Other countries do it all the time but it's taboo here? We use to do it too... Tariffs and shit?
not at all, I was just using those as examples of why its cheaper to produce things in china.
The main goal is to make it cheaper to do business here. There are many ways to go about doing that but if you think the cost of labor(unions, pensions, benefits) and regulations(enviromental, safety, financial) cant be cut without major reprecussions I think youre wrong.
There are other ways like you mentioned tariffs. I would stay away from this if I were a legislator b/c this will probably just instigate a tarrif from the countries we put tarrifs on...and we take in much more than we put out...so i would think this would result in a net hurt.
I think providing tax incentives to businesses up to the point that they become indifferent price wise would help keep ppl from moving parts of their business over seas. The problem is we all know how the govt likes to take away tax incentives so this would need to be permenant.
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yea, and why the fuck are American companies building up China and at the same time we're worried about them as an upcoming superpower and threat to America. Didn't we already do this with Japan? Now we're doing it again? All fucking day long I hear about how important this shithole in the middle east is to national security. Bullshit... Nothing in the fucking middle east matters jack squat. We could let all of them kill eachother and nobody would give a fucking rats ass, or they shouldn't anyway. While we talk about catching some douchebag with a diaper bomb, China builds their military off of our fucking dollar. ::) Where is the real national security threat.... Right here at home with our own policies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this isnt anything different then what the american ppl do everyday. They bitch and moan about china taking all the jobs and then go out and buy shit made in china.
They bitch and moan about big business while organizing their 99% rallies using iphones while drinking starbucks!!!
they bitch and moan about small business not being able to compete and then go shop at walmart!!!
a business operates like a normal person in respect to decisions about money. Whatever is better for the bottom line is generally the way they will go.
The sooner we get ppl in congress and a president that understands that they sooner we will get ppl back to work.
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Is that really very fair? Is that really what needs to happen? For an American company to be competitive, Americans all have to accept lower standards, lower wages, longer work days etc..? Essentially the end result of what you're saying is that we have to lower ourselves to Chinese conditions so the companies can profit here at home as though they were doing buisness with China. Isn't there another way? One that doesn't screw Americans? Other countries do it all the time but it's taboo here? We use to do it too... Tariffs and shit?
No, the costs to employers added by the govt like payroll taxes, workers comp, UE insurance, eeoc and employment related lawsuits, expensive insurances, etc make production overlly expensive.
Blame the pofs in the govt first and foremost.
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No, the costs to employers added by the govt like payroll taxes, workers comp, UE insurance, eeoc and employment related lawsuits, expensive insurances, etc make production overlly expensive.
Blame the pofs in the govt first and foremost.
BS Corporate income is as high as ever look at the Thread by Straw
Why do you keep lying like this you are not even an employer?
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BS Corporate income is as high as ever look at the Thread by Straw
Why do you keep lying like this you are not even an employer?
Hey you stupid fuck, and every stupid pofs leftist incompetent thug, guess where the profits are mostly being made and why they are not being domesticated?
I swear - its no wonder this nation is cascading to collapse with morons like blacken/whork, 240, benny, andre, et al spouting such economic illiteracy.
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undoubtedly an attempt to sucker someone into bringing obama into this so cumdrum can say that it was bush who funded this company...
LOL you morons are so obvious
hmmm so konarka the one president bush funded lasted how many years longer than solyndra the one obama did?
Actually it was Romney who gave the funding for this company when he was governor of Mass. He gave 25 million in state funding.
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Actually it was Romney who gave the funding for this company when he was governor of Mass. He gave 25 million in state funding.
Actually it was 1.5 million in state funding, per the Boston Globe. And Konarka paid the loan back.
Under Obama, Konarka received part of a 2.3 billion dollar package of tax credits as part of the failed stimulus plan.
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Actually it was Romney who gave the funding for this company when he was governor of Mass. He gave 25 million in state funding.
cant hate romney. governors and presidents give out tax $ on companies for new energy and other technologies. Govt grants are a part of life.
Nobody would criticize a politician for this common practice. i coudln't expect to turn on FOX and hear "Obama gave your dolalrs to solyndra" because as we all know, every prez gives tax dollars to selected firms for new technologies.
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Actually it was Romney who gave the funding for this company when he was governor of Mass. He gave 25 million in state funding.
Did this solar company have a billionaire bundler linked to Romney campaign?
Was Romney warned that the loan was not ready for prime time and was likely to fail?
Was Romney pressing hard for this loan despite repeated warnings from many people it would be a disaster?
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Did this solar company have a billionaire bundler linked to Romney campaign?
Was Romney warned that the loan was not ready for prime time and was likely to fail?
Was Romney pressing hard for this loan despite repeated warnings from many people it would be a disaster?
1. Yes....Bain Capital of course
2. Yes.....the plastic solar panels were 15% less efficient than the standard ones.
3. He didn't have to...he was the governor....they can grant state funding without the hubbubs
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Actually it was 1.5 million in state funding, per the Boston Globe. And Konarka paid the loan back.
Under Obama, Konarka received part of a 2.3 billion dollar package of tax credits as part of the failed stimulus plan.
end of your obvious attempt to trap ppl you moronic obamabot.
tell us how you converted airsoft guns to real guns again...
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what is a disaster with solar? Do you even know anything about solar GW? What doesn't work with solar energy? Be prepared to have your ass smashed in half on this.
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Any industry that cannot function without government handouts is a disaster. In the past two years alone there have been a plethora of solar companies across Europe and the United States that have been forced to fold despite being given billions and billions of dollars in taxpayer money to stay afloat.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/q-cells-bankruptcy-heralds-end-of-german-solar-cell-industry-a-825490.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/04/solartrust-bankruptcy-idUSN1E83300J20120404
http://capoliticalnews.com/2011/11/11/obama-loans-2-7-billion-to-a-spanish-solar-company/
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-04/europe/31285529_1_q-cells-renewable-energy-solar-power-industry
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/07/business/energy-environment/third-solar-company-files-for-bankruptcy.html
http://articles.pvsolarsalestraining.com/articles.php?SolarQuitePossiblyTheNex tBiggestBubbleBust
http://thegwpf.org/energy-news/5385-as-companies-go-bust-europe-rethinks-solar-subsidies.html
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::)
Any industry that cannot function without government handouts is a disaster. In the past two years alone there have been a plethora of solar companies across Europe and the United States that have been forced to fold despite being given billions and billions of dollars in taxpayer money to stay afloat.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/q-cells-bankruptcy-heralds-end-of-german-solar-cell-industry-a-825490.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/04/solartrust-bankruptcy-idUSN1E83300J20120404
http://capoliticalnews.com/2011/11/11/obama-loans-2-7-billion-to-a-spanish-solar-company/
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-04/europe/31285529_1_q-cells-renewable-energy-solar-power-industry
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/07/business/energy-environment/third-solar-company-files-for-bankruptcy.html
http://articles.pvsolarsalestraining.com/articles.php?SolarQuitePossiblyTheNex tBiggestBubbleBust
http://thegwpf.org/energy-news/5385-as-companies-go-bust-europe-rethinks-solar-subsidies.html
Do you share the same view of heavily subsidized American farms?
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Do you share the same view of heavily subsidized American farms?
You haven't gotten an answer yet so I'll jump in: The answer is no and hell no. Those subsidies are awarded by the amount of acres per farm. The bigger the farm the more sugar you get from Uncle Sam. Guess who has the biggest farms? (Rhetorical question).......The giant Ag. companies who don't need them.
How about that.