Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: derrock on November 17, 2005, 05:17:04 PM
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???does anyone know what makes steroids stut bone growth? do they? i heard that anavar did not, but how about deca? thanks p.s this is a kick ass board!
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any cycle worth doin will stunt your growth. just stay natural till youre 20 or so if height is a concern for u. u shud still make real good gains unless you have shitty genetics.
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???does anyone know what makes steroids stut bone growth? do they? i heard that anavar did not, but how about deca? thanks p.s this is a kick ass board!
AAS prematurely close the bone plates if you take them too early.....
Wait 'till you are in your early twenties at least.
All AAS have potential to do this.
DIV
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actually its estrogen that is respnsible for epiphiseal plate closure ... not androgens.
if you were to run a potent anti estrogen regime , for example nolv and arimidex together , there should be total estrogen suppression hence no premature osification of the epiphiseal plates.
in italy right up untill early last century .. the opera had a great tradition of 'castrates' or 'testes'... these were talented singers identified in childhood... who would have their testicles removed before puberty to keep their voices incredible high pitched .
the side effect of this procedure was the 'castrates' would continue to grow throughout their entire life untill death at old age........ they were unusually tall obviously with amazin high pitch soprana voices.
the audience would weep at their performances with joy , chantin 'god bless the knife' ... these castrates were superstars of the day kinda like whitney houston or sinatra.
scientists examined their skeletons cuz of the unusual enormous growth and concluded the continuous growth throughout life was not due to a lack of testosterone cuz of the abscence of testicles but due to the absence of estrogen.
which poses the question .. if an adolescent whose growth plates were still obviously open was to undergo a potent anti-estrogen regimen ad infinitum ...... would he grow much taller than his genetic potential due to his growth plates never closin >>??
indeed.... erm .. what was the question again?? :)
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actually its estrogen that is respnsible for epiphiseal plate closure ... not androgens.
Yes.......but AAS raise both testosterone and estrogen both.......the increased estrogen component lead to the plates closing.
I know exactly why they close, but do you honestly think breaking it down to that degree here would do most of these guys any good.
The main point: AAS too early leads to growth plates closing.
DIV
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Yes.......but AAS raise both testosterone and estrogen both.......the increased estrogen component lead to the plates closing.
I know exactly why they close, but do you honestly think breaking it down to that degree here would do most of these guys any good.
The main point: AAS too early leads to growth plates closing.
DIV
i know aas raise both hormones moron .. but what im suggestin is if you can surpress estrogen production and its effects .. you could prolly use roids with no premature plate closure!
now f'uck off! ;)
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Actually AAS are freely used by Pediatric Endocrinologists to help children who are growth deficient. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they are put on "cycles" and all, but a moderate amount for 2-3 weeks, to gently push a young boy into puberty, is not uncommon at all.....
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i know aas raise both hormones moron .. but what im suggestin is if you can surpress estrogen production and its effects .. you could prolly use roids with no premature plate closure!
now f'uck off! ;)
Your pseudo-science isn't accurate......
In adolescents you can't make the same assumptions you can for an adult male.
So you give them Nolvadex/Arimidex while administering AAS?
That doesn't necessarily mean you will prevent growth plate closure......or other sides from the total lack of estrogen.
Blocking all estrogen is not the answer.
DIV
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freeagain is quite correct. Estrogen levels are intimately linked to growth plate (physeal) closure.
Both growth hormone and the sex steroids, particularly estrogen, are necessary for the normal adolescent growth spurt. This is true for both boys and girls. Estrogen appears to be the critical stimulus of the physis causing the linear growth spurt. Lower doses of estrogens, as during early puberty, stimulate growth, whereas higher doses, in later adolescence, lead to growth cessation. Once GnRH resumes its pulsatile release (which is suppressed between infancy and puberty), estrogen is stimulated from the ovaries in girls, or from the testis directly and from peripheral aromatization of testosterone in boys resulting in initial breast development in girls and rapid foot growth in both boys and girls as the first signs of the adolescent growth spurt. This initial estrogen increase stimulates further GH release. GH acts directly and indirectly through production of IGF-1 to stimulate physeal growth. The growth rate then peaks about 2 years later and then slows to cessation after another 2 years with estrogen again appearing to be the primary factor causing physeal closure.
There are indeed certain estrogen receptor deficiency states in boys that can result in continued growth. Whether or not true estrogen blockade either at the receptor level or testosterone conversion level would allow adolescents to take AAs without affecting growth is an intriguing concept, but don't hold your breath waiting for that study to get published...
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Whether or not true estrogen blockade either at the receptor level or testosterone conversion level would allow adolescents to take AAs without affecting growth is an intriguing concept, but don't hold your breath waiting for that study to get published...
Exactly.....
DIV
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Well wht if you took non aromatizing steriods like tren or primo?
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I HAVE SHITY SPELLING!!
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Well wht if you took non aromatizing steriods like tren or primo?
Tren doesn't aromatize, but it increases prolactin......
Primo......no idea.
DIV
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Why even risk doing AAS if there IS ANY QUESTION of potential problems ? ? ?
Interesting note or prospect (use of) estrogen agontist and estrogen blockers
to circumvent this effect . . . if estogen is the culprit . . .
My money is on Divisions' and FreakfestMDs' views and vast knowledge . . .
there are many really great (helpful) people here which I am greatful for.
I waited until 35 years old to do any advanced supplements (AAS), I am glad.
I have (or was always) small framed and a *late bloomer*. I would wait until
the person (in question) IS of age, middle or late 20s. Or strictly seek advise
or guidance of practicing MD in this field. Long term safety / well being IS
paramount.
I've routinely had others ask (bust my balls) over the decision to use ANY AAS,
my response is that I am well read and would not even consider their use IF
I had even remote concerns of their use. Would not even bother . . . period!
AAS use or considerations fall into the fringe of uncertainty of actual safety
in this specific (stunted growth) matter - a tough call.
Best of luck in your efforts
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thanks for all the replys. i will probobly take them anyway, even thou i prob. should'nt. i'v been working out for 6+ months and only gained 4- pounds after i gained 15 or so with creatine. we'll see what happens.
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I've routinely had others ask (bust my balls) over the decision to use ANY AAS,
my response is that I am well read and would not even consider their use IF
I had even remote concerns of their use. Would not even bother . . . period!
People fear what they don't understand. Busting your nuts is their way of projecting their fears on to you. Don't stress it........that's people.
DIV
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okies... im gonna kidnap a midget .. probably 15 year old ... and megadose him with aromtazin steroids but run a stellar anti-estrogen regimine alongside.
cuz hes a midget hes got nuffin to lose..
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okies... im gonna kidnap a midget .. probably 15 year old ... and megadose him with aromtazin steroids but run a stellar anti-estrogen regimine alongside.
cuz hes a midget hes got nuffin to lose..
That kid's growth plates were already doomed! :o
DIV
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That kid's growth plates were already doomed! :o
DIV
Damn shame that people are or can be so f'ing impatient about their approaches . . .
The old - light that burns twice as bright (may) only burn twice as long
ONLY been working out for 6 months (still in the cocoon) has not even begun
and haphazzardly want to rush into this - sounds EGO bound anyway
too short term of approach - this person (Derrock) WILL burn out
in another 6 months anyway - f**cking shame!
At 45 years old - I am still working to improve (evolve) my physique
It is or can be a life long process - IT T A K E S T I M E TO BUILD A GREAT PHYSIQUE!
It DOES NOT (simply) come from a bottle or simply from 6 months in the gym
ITS a bigger picture lifelong commitment towards this . . .
Such a resource for learning (here) people ask for help with little interest
in taking to heart and applying greater wisdom of others . . .
They ask for help and ultimately ARE gonna do what they
are hell bent on regardless of guidance from others . . .
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Damn shame that people are or can be so f'ing impatient about their approaches . . .
The old - light that burns twice as bright (may) only burn twice as long
ONLY been working out for 6 months (still in the cocoon) has not even begun
and haphazzardly want to rush into this - sounds EGO bound anyway
too short term of approach - this person (Derrock) WILL burn out
in another 6 months anyway - f**cking shame!
At 45 years old - I am still working to improve (evolve) my physique
It is or can be a life long process - IT T A K E S T I M E TO BUILD A GREAT PHYSIQUE!
It DOES NOT (simply) come from a bottle or simply from 6 months in the gym
ITS a bigger picture lifelong commitment towards this . . .
Such a resource for learning (here) people ask for help with little interest
in taking to heart and applying greater wisdom of others . . .
They ask for help and ultimately ARE gonna do what they
are hell bent on regardless of guidance from others . . .
... are you havin a breakdown ?
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listen , i have been working out for almost 2 years and bench 100lbs more than my body weight and squat twice my weight i'm not starting from scratch. i just meant i have gained 3lbs in the last 6months i am going to shoot juice i asked IF i could avoid bone closure. the real f...ing shame is people like you jump to conclusions to quickly. i don't want a great physique in 20 years i want one in a couple years but i know it takes time
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listen , i have been working out for almost 2 years and bench 100lbs more than my body weight and squat twice my weight i'm not starting from scratch. i just meant i have gained 3lbs in the last 6months i am going to shoot juice i asked IF i could avoid bone closure. the real f...ing shame is people like you jump to conclusions to quickly. i don't want a great physique in 20 years i want one in a couple years but i know it takes time
Fine......do what you want, kid.
DIV
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i don't want a great physique in 20 years i want one in a couple years but i know it takes time
!?W T F?! It takes more than a couple of year to even build the muscular base
much less a decent physique - impatience IS a S C A R Y prospect of youth . . .
... are you havin a breakdown ?
No I could not be much happier with my (lifelong) progress. I derive my self esteem from numerous
ways and hobbies. The gym (my physique) IS ONLY small part of who I actually am . . .
My point . . . sadly
Further support or comments are futile. Go ahead (Derrock) become a dwarf with big(er) arms
I really do not care IF others (much like this poor kid) undermine their long term well being
largely because of EGO bound needs - for the purpose of looking into the mirror.
the real f...ing shame is people like you jump to conclusions to quickly.
You mistake jumping to conclusions and rash judgements for actual life experience,
that you are only beginning to imagine. You'll figure this out eventually, just hope
the you DO NOT F**K yourself up in the process of reasoning our advice and
experience.
We ARE only trying to help you (Derrock) like you came to GB and asked.
U N C L E !
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listen , i have been working out for almost 2 years and bench 100lbs more than my body weight and squat twice my weight i'm not starting from scratch. i just meant i have gained 3lbs in the last 6months i am going to shoot juice i asked IF i could avoid bone closure. the real f...ing shame is people like you jump to conclusions to quickly. i don't want a great physique in 20 years i want one in a couple years but i know it takes time
two years is nothing in this game dude...you should wait until you are mid 20's and have at least 5-6(or more) years of good consistant training/dieting before you consider AAS.
don't bite the hand that feeds you, the guys on this board are trying to help you and they have been in your shoes before.
8)
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two years is nothing in this game dude...you should wait until you are mid 20's and have at least 5-6(or more) years of good consistant training/dieting before you consider AAS.
don't bite the hand that feeds you, the guys on this board are trying to help you and they have been in your shoes before.
Good advice from Tyson.....
'bout time......
DIV
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sorry i lost my temper, i know your right i know your just trying to help. i will try to stay off for a couple more years but the temptation is always there
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two years is nothing in this game dude...you should wait until you are mid 20's
and have at least 5-6(or more) years of good consistant training/dieting
before you consider AAS.
don't bite the hand that feeds you, the guys on this board
are trying to help you and they have been in your shoes before.
8)
Great point Overload (the emphasis) mid or late 20s (with exceptions) - but more when
natural hormones decline and when the subject HAS a foundation to build on . . .
No time or room to appropriately address the actual diet . . .
(apart from (inordinately) short period of training . . .)
Even with the practical experience (knowledge)
I am challenged to eat enough food - clean diet
NOT a problem (for me).
Another note (especially) common to younger generation IS
unfortunately, A L C O H O L use - which interferes
with metabolism and muscle development.
EG Drinking beer and worrying about slimming down
or *dieting off a little extra body fat* - DA!
No ivory tower here - I L O V E big red wines (and scotch)
but must (try and) avoid when on my program,
as well as day to day off cycle . . .
A BIG commitment to be a real body builder
much to learn and (at times) too many sacrifices
for most - thus the leaning to shorts cuts . . .
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I L O V E big red winesbut must (try and) avoid when on my program,
as well as day to day off cycle . .
Red Wines are heart healthy in moderation.
You can drink those with dinner.
DIV
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- - OFF thread TOPIC - -
Sadly DIV :(
The !O N L Y! damn thing
that will put crud around
my mid section
IS WINE.
Beer IS OFF LIMITS . . .
(what I was reffering to in thread)
I will *carb offset* with wine
in some meals - you know
hearty meat - no starchy
carbs - fiberous veggies.
Yes reasonably amounts.
But IS T O O much like
fine (dark) chocolates.
Hard to stop - taste too good ;D
I am not a total stick in the mud.
But have screwed my BM up at points
with G O O D red wines.
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tyson giving ppl advice these days ???
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- - OFF thread TOPIC - -
Sadly DIV :(
The !O N L Y! damn thing
that will put crud around
my mid section
IS WINE.
Beer IS OFF LIMITS . . .
(what I was reffering to in thread)
I will *carb offset* with wine
in some meals - you know
hearty meat - no starchy
carbs - fiberous veggies.
Yes reasonably amounts.
But IS T O O much like
fine (dark) chocolates.
Hard to stop - taste too good ;D
I am not a total stick in the mud.
But have screwed my BM up at points
with G O O D red wines.
Did you get my PM?
DIV