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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: PJim on September 05, 2012, 12:32:20 PM

Title: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: PJim on September 05, 2012, 12:32:20 PM
Flex thinks he should have won.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Frank Clairmonte on September 05, 2012, 12:45:26 PM
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l49/doombo/1993-mr-olympia-26.jpg)
(http://forum.ronnie.cz/images/uploads/img_1192101933_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Nails on September 05, 2012, 01:00:03 PM
(http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12334&stc=1&d=1273936173)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/curt_james/MMI/europa08/louferrigno_flaviobaccianini.jpg)
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: POB on September 05, 2012, 01:14:57 PM
Who's the little dude?
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: BayGBM on September 05, 2012, 01:17:35 PM
Who's the little dude?

Newbie!  ::)

Flavio Baccianini.  See him in person all the time.  Still a hottie.  :P
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Jaime on September 05, 2012, 01:37:35 PM
Well he is fucking 100% right.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: doriancutlerman on September 05, 2012, 01:42:12 PM
Flex thinks he should have won.

Two options, then:

*He's as stupid as a cold sack of shit

*He's out of his fucking mind

... or maybe both. 

Keep in mind Flex also thought he should've beaten Ronnie in either '98 or '99.  What he "thinks" carries less weight than a paraplegic garbageman. 
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: doriancutlerman on September 05, 2012, 01:44:47 PM
It's funny:  in the years after that show, Flex kissed Dorian's ass, saying he knew he could never beat Yates but "second place was his."  Early onset dementia?

Fact is, Shawn Ray nearly took that second place trophy from him in 1993.  And Dorian was so far beyond the two of them it was hilarious.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: d0nny2600 on September 05, 2012, 01:48:28 PM
It's funny:  in the years after that show, Flex kissed Dorian's ass, saying he knew he could never beat Yates but "second place was his."  Early onset dementia?

Fact is, Shawn Ray nearly took that second place trophy from him in 1993.  And Dorian was so far beyond the two of them it was hilarious.
This.
They all knew it was a competition for second place.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: snx on September 05, 2012, 01:48:43 PM
Flex thinks he should have won.

I truly believe this: If Flex would have turned pro one year earlier, and shown up at the 92 Olympia in the shape he did in 1993, he would have beat Dorian and Levrone.

Flex, unfortunately, got lost in the hype of 93 when everyone was freaked out by Yates. It's hard for judges not to want to reward someone who literally transforms themselves, like Yates did. It clouds the issue of trying to be objective. Not saying they weren't objective in 93 - Yates deserved to woin. But in 92, he wasn't that special vs 91. Flex would have made a more tremendous impact, and could have taken the show. Particularly if his run-up to thtee 92 O had been winning the Arnold/Ironman/SanJose/French/Germany Grand Prix, like he did in 93.

After 93, it was all over for Flex. He never showed up to the Olympia in awesome shape until 1998 when Dorian was gone. But in 1994 or 1997, if Flex had shown up in his 1993 shape (or even in 1998 Arnold shape), he would have won and beat Dorian - he was just too strong. Nothing was going to beat Dorian's 1995 or 1993 physique, but 1994 was beatable, as was 1997 by an in-shape Wheeler. 1996 and 1992 are debatable, though I think it could have happened.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: bigmikecox on September 05, 2012, 01:50:16 PM
I truly believe this: If Flex would have turned pro one year earlier, and shown up at the 92 Olympia in the shape he did in 1993, he would have beat Dorian and Levrone.

Flex, unfortunately, got lost in the hype of 93 when everyone was freaked out by Yates. It's hard for judges not to want to reward someone who literally transforms themselves, like Yates did. It clouds the issue of trying to be objective. Not saying they weren't objective in 93 - Yates deserved to woin. But in 92, he wasn't that special vs 91. Flex would have made a more tremendous impact, and could have taken the show. Particularly if his run-up to thtee 92 O had been winning the Arnold/Ironman/SanJose/French/Germany Grand Prix, like he did in 93.

After 93, it was all over for Flex. He never showed up to the Olympia in awesome shape until 1998 when Dorian was gone. But in 1994 or 1997, if Flex had shown up in his 1993 shape (or even in 1998 Arnold shape), he would have won and beat Dorian - he was just too strong. Nothing was going to beat Dorian's 1995 or 1993 physique, but 1994 was beatable, as was 1997 by an in-shape Wheeler. 1996 and 1992 are debatable, though I think it could have happened.

He wasnt qualified for the 92 O. He had just won the USA a few months prior.

Flex should have been 3rd at the 93 O. Shawn DESTROYED him
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: MORTALCOIL on September 05, 2012, 01:52:19 PM
I'm surprised that a man who did measure his bf at 0% would make such a claim. Probably ninjas forced him to make that claim.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Jaime on September 05, 2012, 01:54:11 PM
It's funny:  in the years after that show, Flex kissed Dorian's ass, saying he knew he could never beat Yates but "second place was his."  Early onset dementia?

Fact is, Shawn Ray nearly took that second place trophy from him in 1993.  And Dorian was so far beyond the two of them it was hilarious.


Eyes, get some new ones.

(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=39704&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=39596&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=39578&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: doriancutlerman on September 05, 2012, 01:57:17 PM
Compare them in the compulsories from an angle fair to all, and we'll talk about my replacement eyes.

Not to evoke a bandwagon appeal, but ... you do know you've got to be about a half-dozen people aside from Flex who actually think he beat Dorian in '93, right? 

Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on September 05, 2012, 02:03:40 PM
1993 Dorian beats Flex , Flex proclaims he's ' unbeatable ' even admitted he felt lucky to place ahead of the better conditioned Shawn Ray , 18 years latter he thinks he should have won lol

Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: jprc10 on September 05, 2012, 02:04:59 PM
Well, understanding judging criteria Dorian did kill everyone at this contest (not that I agree with it). But from a personal opinion, Flex looked much better, more aesthetic.

And bigmikecox, Shawn destroyed Flex? .....LMAO  ;D
When Flex was on, Shawn was not even close....Flex was in another league.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: doriancutlerman on September 05, 2012, 02:06:41 PM
Well, understanding judging criteria Dorian did kill everyone at this contests (not that I agree with it). But from a personal opinion, Flex looked much better, more aesthetic.

And bigmikecox, Shawn destroyed Flex? .....LMAO  ;D
When Flex was on, Shawn was not even close....Flex was in another league.

I tend to agree, but Shawn was ON in 1993.  Flex was still pretty fucking awesome at the Olympia, but Shawn pushed him.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: JasonH on September 05, 2012, 02:06:59 PM
It wasn't even close that year - irrespective of the contest itself, Dorian had already psyched them all out prior to the competition by revealing the famous black and white Temple Gym shots that still look freaky 20 years later.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Shockwave on September 05, 2012, 02:07:35 PM
Dorian > Flex in 93. Flex getting all nostalgic on himself doesn't change that.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Parker on September 05, 2012, 02:08:21 PM
Had Flex won in either 93 or 98, we wouldn't be seeing the bloated sack of ish that we see today. Possibly, if Flex won, due to his connections with Dr. Dre, bbing would have become "slightly" more popular or mainstream.
But, Flex would have still gotten sick, he had gotten sick when he did the spring shows in 93.
It was just not to be.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on September 05, 2012, 02:08:47 PM
Well, understanding judging criteria Dorian did kill everyone at this contest (not that I agree with it). But from a personal opinion, Flex looked much better, more aesthetic.

And bigmikecox, Shawn destroyed Flex? .....LMAO  ;D
When Flex was on, Shawn was not even close....Flex was in another league.

Flex admitted that he felt lucky to place ahead of him in 1993 , Flex was worn out from the spring shows his body had enough , Shawn was much sharper
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: snx on September 05, 2012, 02:14:17 PM
He wasnt qualified for the 92 O. He had just won the USA a few months prior.



I know. That's why I said if he had done what he did (turn pro, win all those shows) a year earlier, he might have been Mr O in 1992. But he rolled into his first Mr O in 1993 instead...the year Dorian was unbeatable.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: doriancutlerman on September 05, 2012, 02:14:28 PM
Flex admitted that he felt lucky to place ahead of him in 1993 , Flex was worn out from the spring shows his body had enough , Shawn was much sharper

Thank you, my good Narcissist :)

Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Jaime on September 05, 2012, 02:16:28 PM
It wasn't even close that year - irrespective of the contest itself, Dorian had already psyched them all out prior to the competition by revealing the famous black and white Temple Gym shots that still look freaky 20 years later.


He never surpassed those shots for the rest of his career, which is a shame. He never brought anything like that to an O stage.

Having said that tons of bodybuilders have freaky gym shots, its different bringing it onstage.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: galain on September 05, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
Flex wasn't better than Shawn in '93.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Parker on September 05, 2012, 02:17:45 PM
Flex admitted that he felt lucky to place ahead of him in 1993 , Flex was worn out from the spring shows his body had enough , Shawn was much sharper
It was Flex's shape that carried him. He was about 218, wasn't as conditioned in the hams and glutes. But if you look at the vid, Flex's waist from frontal view was smaller than Shawn's or Labrada's (who was sub 200 pounds).
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Frank Clairmonte on September 05, 2012, 02:34:27 PM
imagine this flex in 93
(http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/4/f/4f8d0-flexwheeler1.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2008/99_british_grand_prix_a.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mC1TEdZ4gks/StezaMEvAeI/AAAAAAAAA2E/lsffQZVpmak/s400/0011993-mr-olympia-16.JPG)
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: PJim on September 05, 2012, 02:37:04 PM
Also, that is me who comments; "For real?" etc  ;D I couldn't believe what I was reading to be honest.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: david94 on September 05, 2012, 02:37:18 PM
LMAO Shawn better than Flex. :P

These images speak for themselves

(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7672/vlcsnap525411mv7.png)
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6129/vlcsnap525545ry8.png)
(http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/6994/vlcsnap454257vd9.png)
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/12/vlcsnap457213pp3.png)
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on September 05, 2012, 02:37:46 PM

He never surpassed those shots for the rest of his career, which is a shame. He never brought anything like that to an O stage.

Having said that tons of bodybuilders have freaky gym shots, its different bringing it onstage.

Really ? and you know this how? Kevin Horton who took the shots said he had in 1995 precontest said it was the best he's ever seen Dorian look he was 283lbs in this pic

And Dorian brought it onstage that;s the difference albeit a smaller version , but he isn't like Dennis James who is 280 weeks out looking fantastic and come show time he's 8th place
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: PJim on September 05, 2012, 02:42:50 PM
Really ? and you know this how? Kevin Horton who took the shots said he had in 1995 precontest said it was the best he's ever seen Dorian look he was 283lbs in this pic

And Dorian brought it onstage that;s the difference albeit a smaller version , but he isn't like Dennis James who is 280 weeks out looking fantastic and come show time he's 8th place

I think Dorian could have EASILY come into a contest weighing 280 lbs. I'm certain that he sacrificed at least 10 pounds of muscle mass for that extra hardness/dryness every single time he stepped on stage.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: mesmorph78 on September 05, 2012, 02:50:22 PM

Eyes, get some new ones.

(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=39704&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=39596&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=39578&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)

dillet was a monster

(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=39704&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Frank Clairmonte on September 05, 2012, 03:00:44 PM
dillet was a monster

(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=39704&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)

DILLET HAS SUPERB CALVES for black BB.

He wasted his potential with his ugly posing and lazyness.
(http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/9/4/947348.1140909619159.paul_dillett.jpg)
(http://www.emforma.net/images/paul-dillet-antes.jpg)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3438301&stc=1&d=1308101080)
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: bigmikecox on September 05, 2012, 03:11:34 PM
I think Dorian could have EASILY come into a contest weighing 280 lbs. I'm certain that he sacrificed at least 10 pounds of muscle mass for that extra hardness/dryness every single time he stepped on stage.

He tried that in 1997 and he looked a mess
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: PJim on September 05, 2012, 03:15:31 PM
He tried that in 1997 and he looked a mess

Arms were his problem in 97. His legs were actually much improved.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: bigmikecox on September 05, 2012, 03:26:14 PM
Arms were his problem in 97. His legs were actually much improved.

gut was huge too

Dillett was a pure freak. He was THE most impressive bber ive seen in person. The physique he showed guest posing at the Mr. Ohio 4 weeks from the 1998 Olympia would have got him 2nd place. He was THAT impressive
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Mr.1derful on September 05, 2012, 07:30:56 PM
He tried that in 1997 and he looked a mess

Considering what Dorian went through leading up to the 97 Olympia, he can be excused for not being at his all time best.  Most others would have dropped out, never mind competed and retained their title as he did.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Mr.1derful on September 05, 2012, 07:32:13 PM
Flex thinks he should have won.

Flex is the Hulk Hogan of bodybuilding, in that he keeps attempting to re-write history to suit himself.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Slik on September 05, 2012, 07:44:03 PM
Newbie!  ::)

Flavio Baccianini.  See him in person all the time.  Still a hottie.  :P
Haha. U must work out at Gold's SF.  Love that gym.  Was there recently doin hammer neck, I stand up to almost bump in to this woman ( I think lol) dressed in a thong bikini strolling thru the gym. You prolly wouldn't notice such a thing tho!
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Jaime on September 05, 2012, 10:43:20 PM
Really ? and you know this how? Kevin Horton who took the shots said he had in 1995 precontest said it was the best he's ever seen Dorian look he was 283lbs in this pic

And Dorian brought it onstage that;s the difference albeit a smaller version , but he isn't like Dennis James who is 280 weeks out looking fantastic and come show time he's 8th place


Well it's all opinions, but there is a reason you always post the pre 93 O black and white pics...

I don't think he ever brought that fullness to the stage, with that balance and proportion.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Figo on September 06, 2012, 12:14:57 AM
Newbie!  ::)

Flavio Baccianini.  See him in person all the time.  Still a hottie.  :P

Baccianini living in the states?

Ask him if he really trained 6 months of the year, and how the fuck did he manage that?
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: randy841 on September 06, 2012, 12:36:30 AM
Arms were his problem in 97. His legs were actually much improved.

Dorian's arms were never that great. In fact, he had the shittiest arms in bodybuilding.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: GoneAway on September 06, 2012, 04:27:56 AM
Flex could have won it and no questions would have been raised. Flex had a beautiful physique but Dorian had very thick muscles with still very good definition. It went to the guy with more mass.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Slik on September 06, 2012, 05:41:12 AM
Baccianini living in the states?

Ask him if he really trained 6 months of the year, and how the fuck did he manage that?
He still looks incredible. Could easily do the masters O. I mean I'm sure he's still juicing but that's beside the point.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: The Grim Lifter on September 06, 2012, 07:36:27 AM
In the 1993 Video, Flex by himself looks unbelievable. Next to Dorian he is beaten by a mile. That's the difference.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Figo on September 06, 2012, 07:40:26 AM
He still looks incredible. Could easily do the masters O. I mean I'm sure he's still juicing but that's beside the point.

I remember seeing some pics a few yrs back, looked very very good
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Grape Ape on September 06, 2012, 07:59:01 AM
In the 1993 Video, Flex by himself looks unbelievable. Next to Dorian he is beaten by a mile. That's the difference.

Most dominant win in Mr. O history.   Wasn't close.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Jaime on September 06, 2012, 09:37:18 AM
Most dominant win in Mr. O history.   Wasn't close.


Explain. He looks like smashed assholes in the pictures compared to Flex.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Grape Ape on September 06, 2012, 10:24:09 AM

Explain. He looks like smashed assholes in the pictures compared to Flex.

Read the reviews.  The judges didn't even feel the need to compare him in one of the rounds.  That hasn't happened.

You're using your subjective criteria, which doesn't jive with the IFBB standards.  But you've been through all this, so there's no need to rehash it.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Man of Steel on September 06, 2012, 10:27:26 AM
Yep, the real debate isn't "Flex was better than Dorian at the 93 O" it's really "Dorian was better than everyone and Shawn was actually better than Flex at the 93 O."
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: PJim on September 06, 2012, 10:28:56 AM
Yep, the real debate isn't "Flex was better than Dorian at the 93 O" it's really "Dorian was better than everyone and Shawn was actually better than Flex at the 93 O."

Haha. Shawn definitely pushed him.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Jaime on September 06, 2012, 10:43:00 AM
Read the reviews.  The judges didn't even feel the need to compare him in one of the rounds.  That hasn't happened.

You're using your subjective criteria, which doesn't jive with the IFBB standards.  But you've been through all this, so there's no need to rehash it.


True. It's just amusing when people pretend that there is a judging criteria that's all. Branch beat Wolf at the AC too, citing judges scores is fruitless.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Shockwave on September 06, 2012, 10:44:03 AM

True. It's just amusing when people pretend that there is a judging criteria that's all. Branch beat Wolf at the AC too, citing judges scores is fruitless.
At least there was some sort of consistency up until the post-ronnie era.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on September 06, 2012, 11:17:14 AM

True. It's just amusing when people pretend that there is a judging criteria that's all. Branch beat Wolf at the AC too, citing judges scores is fruitless.

Translation: you're to stupid to figure out the judging criteria and base everything off of a preconceived notion on what it should be based on preference alone.



Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: hipolito mejia on September 06, 2012, 11:20:32 AM
Holy shit.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: jprc10 on September 06, 2012, 11:57:39 AM
Flex admitted that he felt lucky to place ahead of him in 1993 , Flex was worn out from the spring shows his body had enough , Shawn was much sharper

Yeah, but we know Flex says many things (some really crazy) and then changes his mind ;D

Seriously, I don't think Shawn being sharper was enough. Flex was still good enough to beat him. Do you happen to know what the scores were at this O?

Flex structure was too good for Shawn imo and he had to be way off (as in 95 or 96) for him to get beat by Ray.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: Jaime on September 06, 2012, 11:58:19 AM
Translation: you're to stupid to figure out the judging criteria and base everything off of a preconceived notion on what it should be based on preference alone.






Ok Nd, i await your detailed analysis of how Branch fulfills the "criteria" better than Wolf, best poser too haha.

Deny it as much as you like, there is zero criteria and it has little to do with me not understanding the huge complexities that are inherent to bodybuilding judging. ::)
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: jprc10 on September 06, 2012, 11:59:17 AM
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3438301&stc=1&d=1308101080)

 :o
This has got to be the most insane & freakiest bbing pic I've ever seen. Freakiest than any Coleman pic for sure.
Title: Re: Just to clarify...93 Mr.O
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on September 06, 2012, 12:03:03 PM

Ok Nd, i await your detailed analysis of how Branch fulfills the "criteria" better than Wolf, best poser too haha.

Deny it as much as you like, there is zero criteria and it has little to do with me not understanding the huge complexities that are inherent to bodybuilding judging. ::)

I wont give a detailed analysis at all , because you already have your mind made up and I have no desire to try change it , you have this idea on how things should go and it's based off of preference , contests are not judged on what you find appealing