Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: suckmymuscle on November 27, 2005, 06:45:43 AM
-
So, what do you guys think of ZMA? Is it effective?
-
So, what do you guys think of ZMA? Is it effective?
Effective for what?
This question comes up repeatedly.
Is zinc a necessary mineral? Yes
Is magnesium? Yes
Is B6? Yes
Are strenuous exercisers (like bbr's) usually deficient in them? Yes
Is it gonna make you grow? ::)
-
its effective as a sleep aid and in recover. butincreasing your test levels. i would say diff not.
-
I took it for 4 straight months and I saw or felt nothing.....so i stopped wasting my money....I take vitimans everyday so i dont think im missing anything.
-
Effective for what?
This question comes up repeatedly.
Is zinc a necessary mineral? Yes
Is magnesium? Yes
Is B6? Yes
Are strenuous exercisers (like bbr's) usually deficient in them? Yes
Is it gonna make you grow?
Yes, but zinc l-monomethionine and magnesium aspartate, have a much higher bioavailability than regular zinc and magnesium. A study, done with NCAA football players, showed a 33.5% increase in free testosterone, and total plasma testosterone by 32.4%, after eight weights weeks, of taking it on an empty stomach, before bed. The whole thing is chelated, you know?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Yes, but zinc l-monomethionine and magnesium aspartate, have a much higher bioavailability than regular zinc and magnesium. A study, done with NCAA football players, showed a 33.5% increase in free testosterone, and total plasma testosterone by 32.4%, after eight weights weeks, of taking it on an empty stomach, before bed. The whole thing is chelated, you know?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
There is no scientific evidence that ZMA has any effects beyond those of taking equivalent amounts of zinc, magnesium and vitamin B6 in any other form.
I am well familiar with the 8 week, 12 athlete "study" that was released in May of '99 claiming ZMA increases anabolic hormones and strength (conducted by L. R. Brilla, Western Washington University and V. Conte, BALCO). That study was significantly flawed. While the results show statistically significant differences between the ZMA and placebo groups, the beginning levels of zinc and magnesium in those athletes was already low. Increased exercise increases the body's need for zinc & mag. The fact that levels of zinc and magnesium dropped in the control group's blood shows that the increased exercise had the expected effect. So both groups needed more of these minerals, probably even before the intensive training, but only one group got it. High protein intake increases the need for B6, and zinc is particularly important for protein (muscle) synthesis.
In case you're unaware; Victor Conte = Balco Labs = SNAC = the "original" ZMA
-
There is no scientific evidence that ZMA has any effects beyond those of taking equivalent amounts of zinc, magnesium and vitamin B6 in any other form.
I am well familiar with the 8 week, 12 athlete "study" that was released in May of '99 claiming ZMA increases anabolic hormones and strength (conducted by L. R. Brilla, Western Washington University and V. Conte, BALCO). That study was significantly flawed. While the results show statistically significant differences between the ZMA and placebo groups, the beginning levels of zinc and magnesium in those athletes was already low. Increased exercise increases the body's need for zinc & mag. The fact that levels of zinc and magnesium dropped in the control group's blood shows that the increased exercise had the expected effect. So both groups needed more of these minerals, probably even before the intensive training, but only one group got it. High protein intake increases the need for B6, and zinc is particularly important for protein (muscle) synthesis.
In case you're unaware; Victor Conte = Balco Labs = SNAC = the "original" ZMA
Thanks for your input, PrincessL, but I disagree. I have definitely noticed an increase in acne-something I haven's have since I was a teenager-, and stronger hard-ons, since I started to take ZMA. Please explain to me, ho exacltly as that study flawed.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Thanks for your input, PrincessL, but I disagree. I have definitely noticed an increase in acne-something I haven's have since I was a teenager-, and stronger hard-ons, since I started to take ZMA. Please explain to me, ho exacltly as that study flawed.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
So, what do you guys think of ZMA? Is it effective?
You asked for opinions on ZMA and if it was effective. Then, when given an opinion, you defend the product with your ‘personal testimonial’. If you feel a few more zits is an indication it’s working for you, great. Keep spending your $$$. It certainly isn’t going to hurt. It’s properties are necessary for active people and weight trainers. Just don’t be misled into thinking it’s increasing your test levels and making you grow. BTW, there are other things on the market if you need help in the bedroom.
As far as the ‘study’ goes, the beginning levels of zinc and magnesium in those guys’ blood was already low. Like I said, increased exercise raises the body's need for zinc and magnesium. The fact that levels of zinc and magnesium dropped in the control group shows that the increased exercise had the expected effect. So both groups needed more, but only one group got it.
Additionally, high protein intake (most likely consumed by those football players) increases the need for B6, and zinc.
Again, in case you're unaware; Victor Conte = Balco Labs = SNAC = the "original" ZMA
-
Ah yes, but there is much to be said about the mighty PLACEBO effect! ;D
-
This topic should be a sticky...Mr.Moderator?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
One of those overrated supps; I don't think it's useless, just that it's not going to give you that extra edge as the companies claim it does.
-
I hear you guys on not getting too much out of the ZMA...I will say this...when I do take it...I seem to have crazy ass dreams. Now if it only would give me crazy ass results... ::)
-
i feel you on that. i use to have dreams about doggs that talk to me. sometimes it doesnt even help me to sleep. bc im so damn hungry. i used to take a shake or something without calcum and wait 90mins. But, i still get hungry where my stomach talks to me. i would say this, when i took zma i did gain some LBS. which for me is like pissin in the wend. mybe is that im asian and im in the early 20's
-
i feel you on that. i use to have dreams about doggs that talk to me. sometimes it doesnt even help me to sleep. bc im so damn hungry. i used to take a shake or something without calcum and wait 90mins. But, i still get hungry where my stomach talks to me. i would say this, when i took zma i did gain some LBS. which for me is like pissin in the wend. mybe is that im asian and im in the early 20's
While on zma, I had this dream where I could see the clouds moving, and they would change into all kinds of deformed images. Just fucking weird.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Guys, back to the topic of ZMA and testosterone. So...does ZMA raise it?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
just zma, No but i havent used the new zma with tibulus
-
So, what do you guys think of ZMA? Is it effective?
No.
-
ZMA does seem to raise free testosterone, in individuals who are severely depleted in Zinc and Magnesium...like most bodybuilders.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
I heard that ejaculation greatly reduced your zinc stores.
That might be why some people benefit so much from ZMA ;D
I believe the magnesium is what is the most potent there. It's very often lacking in modern diet, especially in anybody who take dairy products that contain a lot of calcium which is not balanced by magnesium. Notice that most food contain little calcium and a lot of magnesium. In fact, I believe that the calcium RDA is a scam that profits the dairy industries a lot. Sorry, out-topic here. But come on, a lot of people in the world doesn't not drink any dairy products and yet they don't suffer from bone problems.
-
I heard that ejaculation greatly reduced your zinc stores.
That might be why some people benefit so much from ZMA ;D
I believe the magnesium is what is the most potent there. It's very often lacking in modern diet, especially in anybody who take dairy products that contain a lot of calcium which is not balanced by magnesium. Notice that most food contain little calcium and a lot of magnesium. In fact, I believe that the calcium RDA is a scam that profits the dairy industries a lot. Sorry, out-topic here. But come on, a lot of people in the world doesn't not drink any dairy products and yet they don't suffer from bone problems.
We as a society contribute to our bone loss problems with a lot of the crap we eat and drink - dairy aside.
-
ZMA does seem to raise free testosterone, in individuals who are severely depleted in Zinc and Magnesium...like most bodybuilders.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I feel like at this time of year it's a vital nutrient....You know how they put zinc in cold-eze and cold remedies? Well, yeah. Quit taking ZMA and got sick. I'm going to start it back up again and see if i can shorten this cold.
-
If you shop around you can find it for about 7 bucks per month supply.
-
If you shop around you can find it for about 7 bucks per month supply.
Where...?! :D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
I feel like at this time of year it's a vital nutrient....You know how they put zinc in cold-eze and cold remedies? Well, yeah. Quit taking ZMA and got sick. I'm going to start it back up again and see if i can shorten this cold.
Same here. My wife has and is just getting rid of a bad cold that kept her out of work for a few days. The coughing and sniffling was the worst and she was full of mucus. Gross, I know, but I took 3 gr. or C divided into 3 doses, 400 iu's of E divided and ZMA at bedtime. Everybody in the house was sick except me. Was it the ZMA? I'm pretty sure it helped along with the other anti oxidants, but I can't say if I got stronger. It was worth it just to be able to get a good nites sleep and out of bed, unlike the rest of the house. So I would give it a thumbs up as a good way to keep from getting a flu like severe cold.
-
http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=1041
I was wrong, 8 bucks a month.
-
Hey I own that product! ZMA is like glutamine... you can't "TELL" that it works and if you only spend 8 bucks a month you're not losing much...
-
ZMA stacked with 6-0X0 and tribulus works pretty damn good for me when it comes too increasing lean mass and getting a good sleep.
-
ZMA stacked with 6-0X0 and tribulus works pretty damn good for me when it comes too increasing lean mass and getting a good sleep.
Tribulus is worthless.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
ZMA has been working pretty well for me. My last blood test, showed an 18% increse, in total testosterone. I've been on it for six weeks now. Also, I'm getting greater hard-ons. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
ZMA has been working pretty well for me. My last blood test, showed an 18% increse, in total testosterone. I've been on it for six weeks now. Also, I'm getting greater hard-ons. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
how old are you? im just wondering what a good age is to get on that stuff.
-
how old are you? im just wondering what a good age is to get on that stuff.
I'm 26, bro. My nuts are still spitting out testosterone, by the bucketfull. It will be very different 10 years from now, so I better start preparing myself for the worse. :(
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
alright! sounds good. igot a while then
-
I've felt a pretty decent difference in strength and better deep sleep with two ZMA products:
Z-Force and Z-Mass PM.....both these worked extremly well.....slept better and was indeed a little stronger on all lifts....i eventually want to try victor conte's version of ZMA
-
I've felt a pretty decent difference in strength and better deep sleep with two ZMA products:
Z-Force and Z-Mass PM.....both these worked extremly well.....slept better and was indeed a little stronger on all lifts....i eventually want to try victor conte's version of ZMA
It is the best, bro! Nothing beats out SNAC's ZMA. It contains lab-grade ingredients, because BALCO labs is a pharmaceutical company. Furhtermore, it is the original ZMA formulation, so it is the REAL stuff. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
alright! sounds good. igot a while then
How old are you ???
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Tribulus is worthless.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Yeah Tribulus is a total crap bodybuilding supplement. :D
-
Ok guys, here's the latest update. I've been on ZMA for ten weeks now. My latest medical exam showed a 19% increase in free testosterone and 22% in total testosterone, over initial baseline level. I'm very happy, and horny as hell. ;D :) ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
That's awesome. Primaforce uses SNAC and is the cheapest company that offers it.
-
I think that ZMA stacked with LH might give slightly better results... :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Or ZMA stacked with leucine(branch-chained amino acids increase mineral absorbtion). Give it a shot! :D ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
I've been getting this for a while. Cheep (well one dollar more than 1Fast) but still, its two months for $20. I love the stuff. http://www.supplementdirect.com/?content=52&product_id=14358
-
I got a big hard one using ZMA though I can't say whether or not I pitched a tent due to the ZMA or not. Either way it sure feels good to get that morning Redwood.
-
I was wondering, if sublingual ZMA, would work better than the oral version. Do any of you guys know ???
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
I don't know, but if you must-- make your own by studying the % on the bottle. I can't force myself to spend $30+ on zinc, mg and B vit., when the individual components are so much more affordable.
-
I don't know, but if you must-- make your own by studying the % on the bottle. I can't force myself to spend $30+ on zinc, mg and B vit., when the individual components are so much more affordable.
The thing is, you see, that taking Zinc, Magnesium ad B-6 is NOT the same as taking ZMA. It comes chelated to the amino acid methionine-which is the most easily absorved by the Human body-, and it is Calcium-free. Calcium dramatically inhibits the absorbtion of both Zinc and Magnesium, so you get nothing from taking regular Zinc/Magnesium. Besides that Zinc and Magesium oxide, even without Calcium, have a very poor bioavailablitlity. And ZMA also has Zinc/Magnesium in aspartate form, bound together to enter the bloodstream simultaneously. ZMA may be a little more expensive than plain Zinc/Magnesium and B-6, but it is by FAR the superior product.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Guess what? ZMA does boost T, but ONLY if you're exercising really heavy. The latest suff I've seen about it suggest, that ZMA, produces the highest elevations of T when one is doing heavy compound lifts, like the dead-lift and squat.
ZMA seems to be less effective at raising T when one engages in a "fitness" routine, and practically no elevation at all when one is sedentary. So, spend your money on ZMA ONLY if you're truly a bodybuilder who exercises really heavy. Now Iknow it truly is for me! ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
I take ZMA, I love it, and its really important. I feel good overall, its hard to say "well it makes me stronger" But im glad im taking it.
-
I take ZMA, I love it, and its really important. I feel good overall, its hard to say "well it makes me stronger" But im glad im taking it.
Yes, it seems that chelated magnesium, plus vitamin B-6, induces overall feelings of optimism and alertness, by boosting brain dopamine levels. :D ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
I've done the make your own ZMA & noticed good results w/it.The thing w/all ZMA studies i've read is that ZMA is basically better for ppl. over the age of 30 when the test levels are starting to drop.Maybe why I noticed its effects as i'm 39 now & had tried it when younger & didn't notice anything from it.As suckmymuscle also states you have to be a hard trainer & willing to work hard in the gym also.
-
Forgot this!Take it before bedtime on an empty stomach.
-
I was wondering, if sublingual ZMA, would work better than the oral version. Do any of you guys know ???
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Probably slightly more bioavailable - just guessing tho :-\
Guess what? ZMA does boost T, but ONLY if you're exercising really heavy. The latest suff I've seen about it suggest, that ZMA, produces the highest elevations of T when one is doing heavy compound lifts, like the dead-lift and squat.
Just playing the devil's advocate here, cuz I am not for or against ZMA (as lifters, we can all use the components), BUT - those exercises in and of themselves are high test boosters.
The take home message: GUYS ~ DO YOUR SQUATS AND DEADS whether you're supplementing or not! ;D
-
i was taking zma, until I read about the increased risk of prostate cancer...
-
i was taking zma, until I read about the increased risk of prostate cancer...
Seriously? Wtf.. >:(
I read how weight training causes us to need more Zinc/Mag. It helps for anabolism.. How does it contribut to prostate cancer.. wtf. It says to take 3 a day.. I guess ill stick to that, nothing more..
I like it.. I think it has good overall affects.
-
ZMA is the best thing since sliced bread. My wife LOVES to talk before we go to sleep. Personally, I just want to go to sleep. So one night I'm taking my ZMA and she is just yap, yap, yappin away and all of a sudden this BRILLIANT idea comes to mind...
Yes, my friends, I gave three and told her that they make you feel better when you wake up. I didn't lie ;) 5 minutes later she was out like a light. I feel it's the best supplement ever invented and the most effective. ;D
-
Personally, I think SNAC ZMA works really well only when everything else is balanced. For example, your protein intake should be adequate according to bodybuilding standards. You are timing all your meals well. You should be sleeping consistently around the same time and amount of time. Your training is progressively getting more intense in a bodybuilding manner. And so on... Without checking or controlling all these factors as I have done so with my body, it is difficult to see significant results in lean mass gain.
I have tried working out really hard and keeping everything in balance for 2 months without supplementing SNAC ZMA and have not nearly gained as much strength and mass as I have when I also again kept everything in balance and worked hard the following month but with the addition of supplementation with SNAC ZMA.
Again, I am only one person and there are various factors that were not controlled on my part. However, I feel it does work. Afterall, bodybuilding is not an exact science in the sense that one thing may work for one person while the same may not for another. It is all down to how you feel by trial and error and self examination.
-
Personally, I think SNAC ZMA works really well only when everything else is balanced. For example, your protein intake should be adequate according to bodybuilding standards. You are timing all your meals well. You should be sleeping consistently around the same time and amount of time. Your training is progressively getting more intense in a bodybuilding manner. And so on... Without checking or controlling all these factors as I have done so with my body, it is difficult to see significant results in lean mass gain.
I have tried working out really hard and keeping everything in balance for 2 months without supplementing SNAC ZMA and have not nearly gained as much strength and mass as I have when I also again kept everything in balance and worked hard the following month but with the addition of supplementation with SNAC ZMA.
Again, I am only one person and there are various factors that were not controlled on my part. However, I feel it does work. Afterall, bodybuilding is not an exact science in the sense that one thing may work for one person while the same may not for another. It is all down to how you feel by trial and error and self examination.
Excellent post. I think ZMA only works IF you take it on a a completely empty stomach, right before bed. Taken with food, it just gets digested as food - still supplements zinc and magnesium deficiencies, though -, and if taken during the day, utilization is decreased. Great post! ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
I have taken ZMA for years now. It DOES cause you to sleep very deeply. BUT you abxolutely need an empty stomach when you take it. I used to set my alarm for like an hour or two after I went to sleep so I could wake up and take it on an empty stomach. Awesome sleep then.
Just for the better rest it's worth it. Recovery is when you grow.
-
I have taken ZMA for years now. It DOES cause you to sleep very deeply. BUT you abxolutely need an empty stomach when you take it. I used to set my alarm for like an hour or two after I went to sleep so I could wake up and take it on an empty stomach. Awesome sleep then.
Just for the better rest it's worth it. Recovery is when you grow.
The problem is that most bodybuilding supplements have Calcium. Furthermore, most bodybuilding diets are rich in this mineral. So, when you take the ZMA, there's simply too much Calcium still floating around your bloodstream to get the stuff absorbed. I think it would be better to take ZMA on a Calcium-depleted diet. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Would this be a bad supplement if you're young (18-22)? cause I don't get much sleep, so anything to improve it would be great, especailly if it's 8 or 9 bucks a month, while getting more nutrients. Thanks.
-
I know calcium interferes with its absorption so how long do you have to wait after ingesting protein skakes which contain Ca or cottage cheese B4 taking ZMA (I take it right before bed)?
-
I know calcium interferes with its absorption so how long do you have to wait after ingesting protein skakes which contain Ca or cottage cheese B4 taking ZMA (I take it right before bed)?
That, my friend, is exactly the problem! You see, digestion and absorption are much, much slower processes than supplement companies make them out to be. If you drink a whey protein shake, you can be damn sure there'll be still some Calcium from it on your GIT 8-10 hours later! And you'll still find traces of the mineral, on your bloodstream up to 12+ hours after ingestion! The supplement companies that sell ZMA say that all you need to do is wait one or two hours after eating before taking the ZMA. Bullshit! Following a small meal, your stomach takes about four hours to become completely empty. If the meal contains fat or large quantities of meat, then you can double that term! Basically, people don't get results from ZMA for two reasons: first, there's stil too muh food on their stomach when they swallow the caps, resulting in the ZMA being processed as food, and not being shovelled diretly to the bloodtream for best results. And secondly, because, even when they do take it on a completely empty stomach, there's still some Calcium on their gastro-intestinal tract, thus hamparing the absorption.
The only solution to this problem, I have found out, is to completely deplete your diet from Calcium during the period you're taking ZMA(you can always supplement with Calcium latter). And, before you go to bed, eat only a very small meal, composed of a lean protein or some nuts and go to bed. Then, set your alarm clock to wake you upt four or five hours after that and take the ZMA. This is the only way for it to work. Even if you only drink milk at breakfast, there'll still be a little bit of Calcium on your GI at night. So, Calcium depletion and extreme fasting intervals - over four hours and preferably up to six -, before ingesting the capsules, are the only ways to ensure that the ZMA gets absorbed. Just my two cents... ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
My T level has plateaud. :( Ok, now I'm really pissed and want to get as much T pumping out of my nuts as possible. :-\ Is there anything I can do, short of inecting it, that I can do to really boost my T into the stratosphere? What about combining 6-OXO with wild yams? Will that work ??? FLEX magazine had an article saying that wild yams do boost T significantly. And also, I have seen three different peer-reviewed articles, stating that 6-OXO does boost T levels, by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme. What do you guys think?
SUCKMYMUSCLE