Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: anabolichalo on December 27, 2012, 04:41:20 PM
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speak on it
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best steroid ever, period.
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best steroid ever, period.
how does testosterone compare
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it doesnt.
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Anabolic as fuck, but also androgenic as fuck :-\
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Tren is the best steroid period. It is the best bulking drug AND the best cutting drug.
If anyone says otherwise, don't listen to anything else they say.
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tren is not over-rated, however 5X on paper does not mean 5X on results but easily double the results you would get mg per mg versus prop in regards to building muscle and strength.
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tren is not over-rated, however 5X on paper does not mean 5X on results but easily double the results you would get mg per mg versus prop in regards to building muscle and strength.
Really? You can't really compare them.
Teststerone after certain dosage will bloat the fuck out of you. That makes you look REAL bad. Then you have to take AI which is fucking complicated and creates problems of their own.
With tren... There are no sides that make you look worse.
There is a guy at my gym who benches 200kg, 230kg on tren. He takes like 50-100mg eod, not much, with like 500mg of test per week. Then he goes off and it's down 30kgs again. Then ON again and it's a matter of fucking 3 weeks. I saw it happen myself, fucking crazy.
BTW I dont think hes lying about dosages, hes a bouncer at a club, he cant afford more than that. He also took 100mg of dianabol daily once so it's not like he's hiding something :D
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so 15 was right?
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Really? You can't really compare them.
Teststerone after certain dosage will bloat the fuck out of you. That makes you look REAL bad. Then you have to take AI which is fucking complicated and creates problems of their own.
With tren... There are no sides that make you look worse.
There is a guy at my gym who benches 200kg, 230kg on tren. He takes like 50-100mg eod, not much, with like 500mg of test per week. Then he goes off and it's down 30kgs again. Then ON again and it's a matter of fucking 3 weeks. I saw it happen myself, fucking crazy.
BTW I dont think hes lying about dosages, hes a bouncer at a club, he cant afford more than that. He also took 100mg of dianabol daily once so it's not like he's hiding something :D
???
what in the world are you talking about?
I said in regards to strength and building muscle only, nothing more.
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well, yeah, tren is very good, better than masteron at what it does, and better than test at what it does..
its bit of these two, just dtronger without the estrogen issues.
doesnt mean youll wont have estrogen issues later on though.
but the flat out best out there i dont think so.
one for one, mg for mg, halotestin is even better than tren.
i took them both, i can tell.
I also think real primobolan is better mg per mg then tren as well, unfortunately the bulk of primo on the market is not primo, very hard to find legit primo
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I agree with what onetime said...maybe not 5lbs for every 1lb that test gives you, but still better results mg for mg. But it's also more expensive, mg for mg. So there's that to weigh in too.
But since it's a 19-nor derivative, it's not very estrogenic in and of itself (the 19-nor derivatives don't aromatize easily, though they can, if you crank doses high enough...you ram enough of anything at an enzyme and you're bound to get something done, but that's off-the-charts tren use we're talking about). More likely, the other drugs you take with it will find the aromatase enzyme and be converted to estrogen derivatives. Tren is a hog at binding androgen receptors, and the other shit you take with it will either get cleared from the body, aromatize, reduce to a DHT derivative, or just stay bound to the globulins in the blood. The body doesn't work in absolutes, of course, but that's a likely outcome.
The 19-nor derivatives are also weakened when they come into contact with the reductase enzyme in sex specific tissues (i.e. scalp, prostate, skin, etc...). So, androgenic sides are weaker too. Again, not to say it isn't possible, but it's less than what you get from testosterone, mg for mg. When 19-nor derivatives like tren hook up with the reductase enzyme, they get converted to weaker androgens that don't have much binding affinity for the receptors in sex tissues. That's good...they can't bind as easily, so signals aren't transmitted as easily. It can still happen, mind you, just not as efficiently as when test reduces to DHT.
So, tren is a pretty safe drug (I know it has street cred for being harsh, but I always wonder about that). I have used tren, got great results, no discernible sides, and felt great on it. It's a bit pricier where I come from, and not always easy to get, which is why I wind up sticking to good old test.
Given my druthers, I like stacking tren as my 19-nor derivative, Masteron as my DHT-derivative, and methandrostenolone or oxymetholone as my 17-beta (read: test) derivative. When I can't find 17-beta derivatives, it's plain old test.
If you can't grow to 200lbs at less than 10% bodyfat at 5'10" or less on 150 mg week of tren, 100mg a week of masteron and 250mg a week of test, you should try golf or billiards.
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I agree with what onetime said...maybe not 5lbs for every 1lb that test gives you, but still better results mg for mg. But it's also more expensive, mg for mg. So there's that to weigh in too.
But since it's a 19-nor derivative, it's not very estrogenic in and of itself (the 19-nor derivatives don't aromatize easily, though they can, if you crank doses high enough...you ram enough of anything at an enzyme and you're bound to get something done, but that's off-the-charts tren use we're talking about). More likely, the other drugs you take with it will find the aromatase enzyme and be converted to estrogen derivatives. Tren is a hog at binding androgen receptors, and the other shit you take with it will either get cleared from the body, aromatize, reduce to a DHT derivative, or just stay bound to the globulins in the blood. The body doesn't work in absolutes, of course, but that's a likely outcome.
The 19-nor derivatives are also weakened when they come into contact with the reductase enzyme in sex specific tissues (i.e. scalp, prostate, skin, etc...). So, androgenic sides are weaker too. Again, not to say it isn't possible, but it's less than what you get from testosterone, mg for mg. When 19-nor derivatives like tren hook up with the reductase enzyme, they get converted to weaker androgens that don't have much binding affinity for the receptors in sex tissues. That's good...they can't bind as easily, so signals aren't transmitted as easily. It can still happen, mind you, just not as efficiently as when test reduces to DHT.
So, tren is a pretty safe drug (I know it has street cred for being harsh, but I always wonder about that). I have used tren, got great results, no discernible sides, and felt great on it. It's a bit pricier where I come from, and not always easy to get, which is why I wind up sticking to good old test.
Given my druthers, I like stacking tren as my 19-nor derivative, Masteron as my DHT-derivative, and methandrostenolone or oxymetholone as my 17-beta (read: test) derivative. When I can't find 17-beta derivatives, it's plain old test.
If you can't grow to 200lbs at less than 10% bodyfat at 5'10" or less on 150 mg week of tren, 100mg a week of masteron and 250mg a week of test, you should try golf or billiards.
Educational fking post right here
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I also think real primobolan is better mg per mg then tren as well, unfortunately the bulk of primo on the market is not primo, very hard to find legit primo
I haven't found a single source i can trust with legit primo, Let alone primo ace which isnt an oral as Gh15 kept raving about.
Also how do you guys here like to run tren A? Dose and length? How much test with it?
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Also snx mentioned 150 mg tren a week? Isnt that too low?
How would something like 6-8 weeks on/6-8 wks off all year on just testp/trenA sound?
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I agree with what onetime said...maybe not 5lbs for every 1lb that test gives you, but still better results mg for mg. But it's also more expensive, mg for mg. So there's that to weigh in too.
But since it's a 19-nor derivative, it's not very estrogenic in and of itself (the 19-nor derivatives don't aromatize easily, though they can, if you crank doses high enough...you ram enough of anything at an enzyme and you're bound to get something done, but that's off-the-charts tren use we're talking about). More likely, the other drugs you take with it will find the aromatase enzyme and be converted to estrogen derivatives. Tren is a hog at binding androgen receptors, and the other shit you take with it will either get cleared from the body, aromatize, reduce to a DHT derivative, or just stay bound to the globulins in the blood. The body doesn't work in absolutes, of course, but that's a likely outcome.
The 19-nor derivatives are also weakened when they come into contact with the reductase enzyme in sex specific tissues (i.e. scalp, prostate, skin, etc...). So, androgenic sides are weaker too. Again, not to say it isn't possible, but it's less than what you get from testosterone, mg for mg. When 19-nor derivatives like tren hook up with the reductase enzyme, they get converted to weaker androgens that don't have much binding affinity for the receptors in sex tissues. That's good...they can't bind as easily, so signals aren't transmitted as easily. It can still happen, mind you, just not as efficiently as when test reduces to DHT.
So, tren is a pretty safe drug (I know it has street cred for being harsh, but I always wonder about that). I have used tren, got great results, no discernible sides, and felt great on it. It's a bit pricier where I come from, and not always easy to get, which is why I wind up sticking to good old test.
Given my druthers, I like stacking tren as my 19-nor derivative, Masteron as my DHT-derivative, and methandrostenolone or oxymetholone as my 17-beta (read: test) derivative. When I can't find 17-beta derivatives, it's plain old test.
If you can't grow to 200lbs at less than 10% bodyfat at 5'10" or less on 150 mg week of tren, 100mg a week of masteron and 250mg a week of test, you should try golf or billiards.
awsome post
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Doesn't a longer ester tren exist? (tren enanthate?) If so what do guys think of it?
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Doesn't a longer ester tren exist? (tren enanthate?) If so what do guys think of it?
Tren E is nice. Smoother than Tren A but you know when your on it. Its the golden necter of the gods.
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well, yeah, tren is very good, better than masteron at what it does, and better than test at what it does..
its bit of these two, just dtronger without the estrogen issues.
doesnt mean youll wont have estrogen issues later on though.
but the flat out best out there i dont think so.
one for one, mg for mg, halotestin is even better than tren.
i took them both, i can tell.
wouldnt you consider tren a "better" drug then halotestin simply because the gains come with less bad side effects? You can't run more than 30mgs of halo for a few weeks without it wreaking havoc on your body. You can use tren for more than 12 weeks at a time at a decent dose with no issues besides some insomnia.
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Tren E is nice. Smoother than Tren A but you know when your on it. Its the golden necter of the gods.
funny you say it like that, all of my lifting buds who juice use the same phrase to describe it.
Thanks man
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funny you say it like that, all of my lifting buds who juice use the same phrase to describe it.
Thanks man
internet buzz word for tren
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I also think real primobolan is better mg per mg then tren as well, unfortunately the bulk of primo on the market is not primo, very hard to find legit primo
Bayer Primobolan Depot is good but it doesn't compare to tren.
You get some hardness on 300mg of primo a week but you get crazy development on 300mg of tren week. Both with a testosterone base.At least that's how my body respond to it.
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Bayer Primobolan Depot is good but it doesn't compare to tren.
You get some hardness on 300mg of primo a week but you get crazy development on 300mg of tren week. Both with a testosterone base.At least that's how my body respond to it.
The hardest, leaness and most ripped I have ever been is on primo, I simply felt harder on primo in that regard but overall you are probably right.
Doesn't a longer ester tren exist? (tren enanthate?) If so what do guys think of it?
Love it, in fact I never do tren a without it (unless I am doing a show obviously), usually 50mg of tren a and 50mg of tren e per day. That way when you drop the tren you whine down from it smoothly.
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Also snx mentioned 150 mg tren a week? Isnt that too low?
How would something like 6-8 weeks on/6-8 wks off all year on just testp/trenA sound?
150mg of tren isn't too low, if you're stacking with other drugs to get up around half a gram per week, especially if you aren't trying to win a bodybuilding show or something like that.
150mg of tren per week on its own won't do much though, and I would never say it would. It's not completely worthless, but you'd probably want to get to 350 to 400mg per week of tren, if that's all you wanted to use. If you're a guy just looking to get a bit bigger and stronger and feel good. If you want to do a show, better crank it up there.
And yes, tren enanthate is preferable to tren acetate. Short-acting esters, in general (and this isn't an absolute, but rather a general statement based on ester chemistry), are less anabolic than longer esters. The short esters lead to variable spikes in blood hormone concentrations, making it harder to manage side-effects and create a 24/7 anabolic environment. The longer acting esters release the drug slowly from the depot site, making it easier to manage sides, and easier to keep stable hormone levels that ensure if there are androgen receptors nearby, there's drugs to hook up with them. Again, it's not 100% absolutes particular in homemade endocrinology like we do, but it's something to strongly consider.
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wouldnt you consider tren a "better" drug then halotestin simply because the gains come with less bad side effects? You can't run more than 30mgs of halo for a few weeks without it wreaking havoc on your body. You can use tren for more than 12 weeks at a time at a decent dose with no issues besides some insomnia.
Two totally different drugs with different chemistries here.
Tren is a 19-nor derivative, and is inherently less prone to producing side-effects.
Halotestin, meanwhile, is a DHT-derivative. It is not very estrogenic at all, but is quite active in sex tissues. Like the lion's share of DHT derivatives such as stanozolol (winstrol), drostanolone (masteron), and methenolone (primo) etc...The fact that it's also 17-alpha alkylated gives the liver a nice kick in the nuts too.
So yes, if you only had one drug to choose, mg for mg, Tren is safer than Halo. But that's like comparing the safest airplane to the safest bus.
A better question is, what's the better DHT derivative: masteron, primo, halotestin, or winstrol? Mg for mg. If you had to take 500 mg per week of one of those 4 drugs, which one would you take? I would take masteron, but I say that having never tried halotestin or winstrol, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Both halotestin and tren are amazing steriods but both come with side-effects. I love any steroid you can instantly feel working and halotestin takes the cake in that department But Tren A does kick in pretty quick and once it kicks your recovery time speeds up dramatically and the protein synthesis is nutts. The thing with tren some people lactate from tren. You also have to throw in the trensomnia if you get real deal potent tren. So I say take both Tren and halotestin if you are a real competetive bodybuilder or a person why nows how to cycle correctly! I think some peole run Tren A for to long. I tend to only like to run tren for 4-6 weeks and throw in halo for 3-4 weeks at the end of a cycle. If you do not mind injectons Tren-A is the best choice but I think it is best injected almost daily or at least 5 days out of the week.
I tend to like to mix Tren-A and parabolin. primo is too expensive these days and without SRCS(san rafael chemical services) who used to test gear for bodybuilders alot of primo is Test prop or just arachis oil. most of the time they at least counterfeit it with some form of Test usually prop or Test e. Very hard to find legit primo and the UGL primo is usually weak made with low grade grade raws. Primo is another magical drug and is safer in my book but these days just to expensive and counterfeited to recommend!
So I would say use Tren-A or some sort of Tren ester! and when you are cutting have some fun and stack your tren with halotestin! That will def bring out the animal in anybody! Like I said I tend to like all steroids that work fast so I lean towards test suspension,Test prop, Tren A, Halotestin. I think my favorite is halotestin just due to the rapid onset of the drug! It is a oral steroid that you can just feel right away and gives you instant strength and overall sense of well-being! No insomnia , limited sides whenever I took Halo.
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Tren is a wonderful compound, but it comes with the most sides from my experience with it.
400mg a week is enough to see some results, stacked with at least a low dose of Test.
Earlier this year i was on Test/Tren/Primo and had some amazing results, however my blood pressure goes through the roof on Tren and it makes my hair fall out like crazy. It's the only compound that makes me "feel" like I'm on something that is effecting me negatively.
Used in moderation it's probably the best steroid there is.
8)
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Brutal cut and paste ::)
Tren does have some extreme effects. The BP and insomnia are awful, but the muscle growth and the confidence is insane. I know it is an old wives tale, but on tren I just have this thing about me that attracts pussy like crazy. Chicks who otherwise don't talk to me all of a sudden are stepping up to me to make small talk. It is very true.
I agree with what onetime said...maybe not 5lbs for every 1lb that test gives you, but still better results mg for mg. But it's also more expensive, mg for mg. So there's that to weigh in too.
But since it's a 19-nor derivative, it's not very estrogenic in and of itself (the 19-nor derivatives don't aromatize easily, though they can, if you crank doses high enough...you ram enough of anything at an enzyme and you're bound to get something done, but that's off-the-charts tren use we're talking about). More likely, the other drugs you take with it will find the aromatase enzyme and be converted to estrogen derivatives. Tren is a hog at binding androgen receptors, and the other shit you take with it will either get cleared from the body, aromatize, reduce to a DHT derivative, or just stay bound to the globulins in the blood. The body doesn't work in absolutes, of course, but that's a likely outcome.
The 19-nor derivatives are also weakened when they come into contact with the reductase enzyme in sex specific tissues (i.e. scalp, prostate, skin, etc...). So, androgenic sides are weaker too. Again, not to say it isn't possible, but it's less than what you get from testosterone, mg for mg. When 19-nor derivatives like tren hook up with the reductase enzyme, they get converted to weaker androgens that don't have much binding affinity for the receptors in sex tissues. That's good...they can't bind as easily, so signals aren't transmitted as easily. It can still happen, mind you, just not as efficiently as when test reduces to DHT.
So, tren is a pretty safe drug (I know it has street cred for being harsh, but I always wonder about that). I have used tren, got great results, no discernible sides, and felt great on it. It's a bit pricier where I come from, and not always easy to get, which is why I wind up sticking to good old test.
Given my druthers, I like stacking tren as my 19-nor derivative, Masteron as my DHT-derivative, and methandrostenolone or oxymetholone as my 17-beta (read: test) derivative. When I can't find 17-beta derivatives, it's plain old test.
If you can't grow to 200lbs at less than 10% bodyfat at 5'10" or less on 150 mg week of tren, 100mg a week of masteron and 250mg a week of test, you should try golf or billiards.
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"Cute" and paste - epic code word for sharing the showers after mincing
swords.
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Educational fking post right here
Agreed. It's not often I give a fellow Getbigger props for intelligence, but snx is a sharp guy.
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Tren is great. If you don't believe me, ask Groink.
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Brutal cut and paste ::)
Tren does have some extreme effects. The BP and insomnia are awful, but the muscle growth and the confidence is insane. I know it is an old wives tale, but on tren I just have this thing about me that attracts pussy like crazy. Chicks who otherwise don't talk to me all of a sudden are stepping up to me to make small talk. It is very true.
Sorry man...not cut and paste. I never cut and paste, unless it's pics of hot girls.
A lot of my post-grad work was in endocrinology, and a second post-grad degree in business. So yeah, I know a thing or two about the stuff. Also, my post was pretty crappily written...how the hell would you think that's cut and paste? Anyone who writes that poorly and gets published should shoot the publisher, and then shoot themselves as a writer for submitting that hogwash.
But it's still right. And I typed it out myself. I am many things, many of them dishonorable, but I'm no plagiarist. I take great umbrage to your baseless accusations.
Also, I've been raging on test lately and am easily provoked. So there's that....
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i tried tren once
i was sweating so bad i had to take a spare shirt to work
i also couldnt sleep at all
but it is very effective
my take is that mild steroids are better to sustain a long term bb lifestyle
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well, yeah, i only meant mg per mg powerfulness.
but by that logic, test beats tren too.
hey true b93, you asking if 150mg tren weekly isnt too little, well, depends,its small dosage, but it works, esp when stacked with little bit of test.
150mg tren+150 test prop weekly is a solid cycle for non competitors
good stuff man, Im going to give it a run sometime, 150 test p+ 150 tren A week then slowly build when it comes to tren maybe going to 50 mg ed of both =700 mg a week total.
Great thread 8)
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100% genetic twink here
(semi)Jacked on tren. Flufftwink on test.
Tren works. Your mileage may vary.
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"Cute" and paste - epic code word for sharing the showers after mincing swords.
:D
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150mg of tren isn't too low, if you're stacking with other drugs to get up around half a gram per week, especially if you aren't trying to win a bodybuilding show or something like that.
150mg of tren per week on its own won't do much though, and I would never say it would. It's not completely worthless, but you'd probably want to get to 350 to 400mg per week of tren, if that's all you wanted to use. If you're a guy just looking to get a bit bigger and stronger and feel good. If you want to do a show, better crank it up there.
And yes, tren enanthate is preferable to tren acetate. Short-acting esters, in general (and this isn't an absolute, but rather a general statement based on ester chemistry), are less anabolic than longer esters. The short esters lead to variable spikes in blood hormone concentrations, making it harder to manage side-effects and create a 24/7 anabolic environment. The longer acting esters release the drug slowly from the depot site, making it easier to manage sides, and easier to keep stable hormone levels that ensure if there are androgen receptors nearby, there's drugs to hook up with them. Again, it's not 100% absolutes particular in homemade endocrinology like we do, but it's something to strongly consider.
complete bullshit. Short esters are superior to long esters in every way, minus injection frequency.
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500mgs of tren and 500mg of test changes your body! PERIOD!
1cc monday-friday
Only issue for me is the cough and night sweats
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500mgs of tren and 500mg of test changes your body! PERIOD!
1cc monday-friday
Only issue for me is the cough, night sweats and dr dena nightmares
Fixed ;D
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complete bullshit. Short esters are superior to long esters in every way, minus injection frequency.
Really? Care to cite a study to back you up? Because I will back up my claims with a reference if you wish to debate further. Oh, nevermind. Here's the study.
In one study, scientists compared an injection of Testosterone Propionate with Testosterone Enanthate, and they found that the injection of testosterone propionate resulted in nitrogen retention of 1.02g/day with a total measurable anabolic activity of 12 days, while the Enanthate version resulted in nitrogen retention of 1.76g/day and had a total measurable anabolic activity of 33 days.
Look it up if you want to satisfy yourself.
Reifenstein, et. al. Studies comparing the effects of certain testosterone esters in man.J Am Geriatr Soc. 1954 May;2(5):293-8.. PMID: 13162731
Here's two more nandrolone ester related topics:
Chaudry, M.A.Q.; James, K.C.; et al. J. Pharm. Pharmac., 1976, 28, 882-885
Chaudry, M.A.Q.; James, K.C. J. Med. Chem., 1974, 17, 157-161.
I'll also add some basic first year pharmacology to the mix. Endocrinologists know that injecting a hormone variant will produce a longer half-life in the body than having a patient take the same variant orally. We know this, because blood hormone concentrations don't have the same severe peaks and valleys. The blood concentrations stay more stable. We also know that if you add hydrophobic properties to an injected drug, you draw out the activity of the injected drug even more. Hydrophobic activity prevents hydrophillic esterase enzymes from interacting with the drug, thus delaying its release. The longer the release, the more even keeled the drug concentration, the more manageable the results/interactions, etc...in short, more good, less bad.
Now, you are correct in terms of two things bodybuilders hate most:
1. water rentention
2. estrogen production (assuming we're talking about drugs that can convert to an active estrogen)
When it comes down to it, longer esters produce higher levels of estrogens than do shorter esters. And it's the estrogen that bloats us up with water. But that water and bloat also has a benefit. Studies also show that some estrogen conversion is necessary to maximize the body's production of GH and IGF-1 in response to steroid use. So it's not black and white. Like all hormone use...lots of grey.
Journal of Andrology, Vol. 24, No. 5, September/October 2003 Copyright © American Society of Andrology Pharmacokinetics and Degree of Aromatization Rather Than Total Dose of Different Preparations Determine the Effects of Testosterone: A Nonhuman Primate Study in Macaca fascicularisGERHARD F. WEINBAUER*, CARL-JOACHIM PARTSCH, MICHAEL ZITZMANN, STEFAN SCHLATT AND EBERHARD NIESCHLAG
And that Andrology study also showed that short-acting esters had less of an affect on the testes and gonadal sperm production (mind you, this was very short term dosing. You use prop long enough and enough of it, and you'll shut stuff down well enough).
I'm not saying prop or acetate esters are bad, and I think pure test suspension definitely has a place and time. In some instances, they would be preferable to long esters, such as in athletes being tested. But long esters provide greater anabolic activity, and that's been proven. And I will hazard a guess that most guys use steroids for building muscle size first and foremost, and that anabolic activity is the chief concern regardless of half-lives. If you can get past the sie-effects of testicular shut-down and some bloating, you'll simply build more muscle with longer esters.
Come near a show, I wouldn't doubt shifting to shorter esters is better for reducing water retention. But if you're not getting show ready, a bit of bloat is good for the body.
If that's you in your avatar, you're better than I am. You obviously know what works for you, and that's worth more than any of my pharmacology rants...I won't argue that with you. You know what works for you, and that's the most important thing a bodybuilder can do. But you probably shouldn't make absolute statements about applying what works for you to everyone on the board. Plenty of kids read these boards and will believe anything a guy like you says because of how you look. So just be careful...
I'm only arguing on a pharmacology and metabolic response level. You made a pretty bold and absolute statement, and I'm trying to pass along a bit of knowledge on the boards. Too much bro science when it comes to drugs.
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the problem with tren, you ll have to off at one time and then you can kiss the gains good bye and then the estrogen gonna flow freely afterwards.
Depending on your age and overall fitness level, it'll often take an equivalent amount of time (that you were on) to get your testicles functioning properly again.
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the problem with tren, you ll have to off at one time and then you can kiss the gains good bye and then the estrogen gonna flow freely afterwards.
i dont like drugs that cant be taken year round with little risk, but im no competitor, so who cares.
i have never tried tren enanthate, how does tren enanthate compare to test enanthate when it comes to water retention?
and will tren e give limp penis?
with test, the penis is doing well, but i remember otherwise from other drugs, i could never tell which one affects libido and limpness, bc was always on many compounds at same time ;D
Tren is a weak androgen in sex tissues (compared to reduced testosterone), so if you're only using tren, it can have an effect on penis. Just as nandrolone does (another 19-nor derivative). I won't say you'll be like a sock in the wind, but it can affect some guys. There's a lot of variability here. If you notice it happening, a bit of test added to the tren fixes it right up.
Tren, whether it's enanthate or acetate, doesn't really bring on the bloat. I know some guys claim test prop bloats less than test enanthate. But it's not the same with tren, because tren just doesn't trigger the water retention that test does. A lot of the water retention comes from increased estrogen, which tren doesn't create.
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tren e is weaker then tren a. With tren a there are a lot of immediate benefits such as good pumps and strength upon the day of injection, tren e is slightly different in this regards, but I have to disagree on the water retention slightly, not much but still a bit, I would not take tren e right til contest day that's for sure.
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Fixed ;D
LMFAO ;D
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i didnt mean that, but thanks man, i also dont think(from experience that it takes that much time to get back).
i get back within 2-3 months even after a year on, but its low readings and they dont improve, even over years.
what im saying i get the same test reading 2months after a cycle,or 1-2years after cycle, all the same.kinda low but constant.i think it never fully recovers, actually, but recovers ok-ish.
thats interesting, so that tren e dont cause water retention, why do ppl prefer tren a for cutting,then?
not being edgy, serious question 8)
I read what Onetime wrote, and I can't dispute his knowledge. Dude knows his stuff.
I don't have a George Farah-like wealth of applying different drug protocols on pros to see how the body changes.
I've tried enough of different compounds, and I didn't notice a lick of difference between tren ace and tren enan. Some guys might though, but I have to wonder why.
Were they really just take pure tren ace, and then switched mg for mg over to tren enanthate and didn't change their diet, and bloated up a bit? It's possible, though not probable.
There's a big difference, though, between the bloat on test proprionate or suspension, and what you get off enanthate. Enanthate will bloat you up more, due to more estrogen production from long-acting esters vs short-acting esters. And you know bodybuilders...we're always "all or nothing". So one guy hears enanthate bloats you up more than propionate, and all of a sudden, all drugs with enanthate are bloaters and all propionate ester drugs are "cutters" or "hardeners". And that can make some sense if the drug converts to estrogens that are active.
But what about when we apply that to tren, which doesn't really make any appreciably strong estrogen compounds? How could it bloat more? I believe guys when they say it, but I can't explain why, and so usually, I get a little skeptical. Because bodybuilding is loaded with so much bro-science...it's often hard for all of us to tell what we truly know, versus what we believe we know.
I don't have any science to back me up here, but if I had to explain it, it might be a progesterone effect (i.e. longer esters leading to a more pronounced progesterone like effect versus shorter esters). I say "might", because frankly, I haven't found the evidence to prove it. Not to say it isn't out there, because it's been a while since I spent my days in the library reading journals...but I don't remember coming across it in my work.
Like anything before a show, if you feel switching to a tren ace ester from tren enanthate is going to help you win, then do it and put your mind at ease. It's not like you're going to lose any muscle doing so.
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oh I 100% agree that tren e does not give anywhere near the bloat like any type of test. I mean test draws in water like a fountain and from my experience with tren e it will not make you retain any extra water or anything like that, in fact it might help you get rid of some bloat but from my experience with tren e I could not get rid of water, it was hard so basically does not cause extra water but rather stops you from getting rid of what you already have regardless of diuretic, whereas tren a can leave you bone dry with a couple of lasix.
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Serious question - why does enanthate make you bloat more than prop?
I can't understand that. Estrifed testosterone is not biologically active. There is this enzyme in blood which removes ester and releases testosterone particle. Then it's same testosterone, regardless of the esther. If you take 100mg prop e2d, which is 350mg of prop per week it's same mg weekly as 400mg e7d of enanthate (prop esther weight is lower thus you have to take more enan to get more pure test). But 400mg e7d of enan will give you exactly same amount of testosterone released in blood over week as propionate.
So why the fuck does enan give you more bloat?
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When it comes to drawing water out the longer the esters you are on the harder it is to successfully draw the water out, this is a fact, an indisputable fact. Why? personally I don`t say ``I don`t know``that often cause I have had my brain buried in this lifestyle and have almost learned it all but in this case, truly Ì don`t know`` but it is obvious to anyone with enough experience, it`s the way it works.
Say I am 240 and pop 20mg of lasix every 8 hours for 40 hours;
Now keep in mind I have the same amount of water in my system in all the below scenarios.
If I was on test e only I would lose 7lb of water
if I was on test prop only I would lose 9-11lb
If I was on tren e I would lose 12lb
If I was on tren a only I would lose 14lb
Just a silly example, but that how it works. So with compounds that have longer esters for some reason they give the body a hard time when it comes to getting rid of water and with shorter ester the water is released more efficiently. Very glad you asked that question, damn good question, HTH
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I actually prefer tren e. The sides are less harsh and no cough.
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Serious question - why does enanthate make you bloat more than prop?
I can't understand that. Estrifed testosterone is not biologically active. There is this enzyme in blood which removes ester and releases testosterone particle. Then it's same testosterone, regardless of the esther. If you take 100mg prop e2d, which is 350mg of prop per week it's same mg weekly as 400mg e7d of enanthate (prop esther weight is lower thus you have to take more enan to get more pure test). But 400mg e7d of enan will give you exactly same amount of testosterone released in blood over week as propionate.
So why the fuck does enan give you more bloat?
It's about prolonged release.
Short acting esters are in and out of the body so fast and don't produce the appreciable increase in estrogens that long-acting esters do. Why they don't, is a good question.
Short-acting esters are in and out of the body rapidly. Rapidly enough so that the body can't respond and create more aromatase enzymes and up-regulate estrogen receptors (think back to your biology textbooks and how the body reacts to hormonal imbalances using feedback (positive and negative) loop mechanisms).
Long acting esters produce a more measured, prolonged drug concentration. So the body has plenty of time to adapt to the hormonal milieu. That means the body can up-regulate aromatase enzyme concentrations, and receptor concentrations. It does this, because the body can't stand an imbalance of test to estrogen. It thinks your nuts have gone haywire, and are making test like crazy. The body knows estrogen can slow that down, so it wants to make estrogen and will do it if given a chance. A long acting ester gives it the chance...a short-acting ester does not.
The estrogen is the culprit in the bloating, oftentimes. That's pretty much the long and short of it. If you don't like bloating, knock estrogen down or don't use aromatizing drugs (choose DHT derivatives, for example, which produce zero estrogens).
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Tren ::)
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Short-acting esters, in general (and this isn't an absolute, but rather a general statement based on ester chemistry), are less anabolic than longer esters. The short esters lead to variable spikes in blood hormone concentrations, making it harder to manage side-effects and create a 24/7 anabolic environment. The longer acting esters release the drug slowly from the depot site, making it easier to manage sides, and easier to keep stable hormone levels that ensure if there are androgen receptors nearby, there's drugs to hook up with them. Again, it's not 100% absolutes particular in homemade endocrinology like we do, but it's something to strongly consider.
OTOH, you can achieve higher peak levels with short esters, particularly if shot less frequent than ideal for stable levels. Say if you did 300mg of tren ace every 3rd day, instead of 100mg per day.
This could lead to more gene activation even if total weekly dose is the same... you know what I'm getting at? Just an idea I've been floating recently.
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Regarding Halotestin and the reported hardening effect it has. Halo actually jacks up
cortisol and also affects enzymes that affect water retention. On paper Halo could cause
more water retention than some other sterois.
http://www.ergo-log.com/halotestin-is-a-cortisol-booster.html
http://patrickarnoldblog.com/hypertension-and-anabolic-steroids-a-new-pathway/
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in real life it doesnt.
it allows for granite like contractions, and you see crazy stuff under the skin, its amazing with some tren and test propionate ;D
That is my understanding of it, on paper it looks to be a compound that can cause water retention but everyone that takes it in real life swears the opposite and ends up being bone dry by it.
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That is my understanding of it, on paper it looks to be a compound that can cause water retention but everyone that takes it in real life swears the opposite and ends up being bone dry by it.
Anadrol is also considered a bloating steroid but when lean it just adds thickness and hardness. Most of the time. :D
Patrick Arnold thinks maybe the dosage is generally too low to cause water problems. Maybe it would different if you ran 200mg of Halo a day. :D
in real life it doesnt.
it allows for granite like contractions, and you see crazy stuff under the skin, its amazing with some tren and test propionate ;D
Do you think Halo by itself would do anythingg directly to increase anabolism? My understanding is that it's kind of like Proviron, doesn't do shit except cause a hardening effect and mood/dick effects. I actually wonder if the mental and strength effects of Halo have something to do with the effects it has on the corticosteroid-system. Same with Tren.
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True about the anadrol.
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OTOH, you can achieve higher peak levels with short esters, particularly if shot less frequent than ideal for stable levels. Say if you did 300mg of tren ace every 3rd day, instead of 100mg per day.
This could lead to more gene activation even if total weekly dose is the same... you know what I'm getting at? Just an idea I've been floating recently.
Interesting, for sure. You know your stuff.
I guess you could try to rationalize with a thought exercise: assume your liver won't melt by doing this, first off. But if you had to bet money on it, which would you choose: 7 anadrols in one day and off for six, or 1 anadrol per day for 7 days?
I wonder if the short-term mega spikes will be enough to create the constant anabolic environment needed. Not to re-hash my old posts, but when the drug concentration is more constant in the bloodstream, there's a stronger anabolic effect and net nitrogen retention, mg for mg (at least when we compare testosterone...not sure we can't say the same, necessarily, for a DHT derivative or 19 nor derivative because I haven't seen the research, though we may wish to assume). That said, you're right - it's all about gene activation. You saturate receptors and hammer the shit out of them with a mega dose and they don't have room to breathe...they're constantly bound. But, does the body over-compensate to the heavy load by clearing the drug out faster? Can it reasonably do that?
It would be an interesting study to say the least.
Didn't Borresson (sp?) buy into the huge spike theory? Not sure if you've read his stuff, or if I understand his old theories correctly.
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how would you compare EQ and TREN? in terms of size gains?
what do you bros think has overall less sides: Tren A or Tren E?
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how would you compare EQ and TREN? in terms of size gains?
what do you bros think has overall less sides: Tren A or Tren E?
run eq for 16 weeks at 800mg a week
your strength will go through the roof
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To achieve the fitness model look, I will run Tren acetate at 100 mg a day with 300mg test prop a week and 100 mcg clen ...tren from Novocrine
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run eq for 16 weeks at 800mg a week
your strength will go through the roof
I never got good strength gains from EQ. For me there was never a comparison between Tren and Equipoise.
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run eq for 16 weeks at 800mg a week
your strength will go through the roof
True but run tren A at 700mg per week for 16 weeks and your strength would be even greater then that of EQ`s
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True but run tren A at 700mg per week for 16 weeks and your strength would be even greater then that of EQ`s
true
but in my opinion there are no sides on eq
but i dont tolerate tren well
i get anxious cant sleep and sweat to the point where its embarrassing
therefore it isnt worth the diference
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true
but in my opinion there are no sides on eq
but i dont tolerate tren well
i get anxious cant sleep and sweat to the point where its embarrassing
therefore it isnt worth the diference
Yes not many people like how tren makes them feel, personally I love it ;)
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Yes not many people like how tren makes them feel, personally I love it ;)
i would tolerate it if i competed
but as a gym rat i just stick to mild effective stuff now
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i would tolerate it if i competed
but as a gym rat i just stick to mild effective stuff now
Wiser move anyhow. :)
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Interesting, for sure. You know your stuff.
I guess you could try to rationalize with a thought exercise: assume your liver won't melt by doing this, first off. But if you had to bet money on it, which would you choose: 7 anadrols in one day and off for six, or 1 anadrol per day for 7 days?
Short term mega spikes with orals do not really work that well IMO. Certainly once a week dosing of Anadrol would be pretty useless. Even once a day oral use isn't quite as good as splitting it up IME. Slightly better to split it up. Then again it's an old practise to use orals only on training days, in one shot, and some advanced bodybuilders have done it for decades. I even remember that Richa Piana guy saying he did it this way. BFG talked about it as well. Even though I think that BFG account is shady I'm sure some believe in creating spikes around training etc. :D
But there is always a base of injectables so you're not hypogonadal with zero androgens in your system at any point. The example of the 300mg tren shot wouldn't completely clear in 3 days either, not completely cleared of tren at any point, just a fluctuation in levels.
Borresson was a madman and I think you could see the rec drug influence in his stacks. Dude was probably high on crack and heroin while dreaming up his stacks and it probably all made perfect sense to him. :D He lied about being a doctor and I don't like liars. Then again Farah lied about being a cop... all these gurus are a bunch of shady motherfuckers. :D
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Tren is a very powerful drug, but that being said it's one of the best AAS you could use in my opinion. Some people have problems with anxiety, night sweats, dreams (night terrors) and aggression issues, but i think it's an UNREAL drug.
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Tren is a very powerful drug, but that being said it's one of the best AAS you could use in my opinion. Some people have problems with anxiety, night sweats, dreams (night terrors) and aggression issues, but i think it's an UNREAL drug.
Do you guys get those sides on even lower doses? <200mg/week?
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Buddy of mine who posts here sometimes recently told me how he frequently woke up screaming
due to tren. :D
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Sleeping at nigh sucks with tren, I am restless and wake up every hour. Other then that no problems.
Once I was taking 100mg of anadrol per day, as usual. Then I decided to up it to 150 mg per day. On the third day my nose was bleeding in the middle of the night, then on the fourth night my nose bled again, fifth night again, so I said the hell with this, dropped it back down to 100mg and no more nose bleeds, scared me a little so I don`t think I will ever do more then 100mg of anadrol per day.
People ask all the time what is to much, well your body will tell always what`s to much but don`t ignore it and everyone is different anyways.
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oh please! those androgenic anabolic ratios mean fuck all. dbol is the best steroid ever for muscle gains, and its a shit drug on paper. :D
Please show me ONE guy who got huge off tren by itself ;) ask any old timer who used parabolan back in the day how much size they gained. Better yet run tren by itself without any prop, scale goes nowhere....Tren is an amazing compound for what it does but it has limited gaining potential. probably due to The fact that it doesn't aromatize.....
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Tren supposedly REDUCES protein synthesis according to a pubmed abstract. :D
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Do you guys get those sides on even lower doses? <200mg/week?
No, I would say somewhere around the 400mg a week mark is where you start seeing sides like I mentioned.
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trenbolonga,, equipona, masterona, , testosterona, gh-ona,
all must be in blood for bodybuild
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No, I would say somewhere around the 400mg a week mark is where you start seeing sides like I mentioned.
Thanks man...I'll be makin the switch over to PEDs in the near future and am trying to learn as much as I can here. I know a lot of these posts are just anecdotal, but that still means something when guys have been doing this for years.
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Anabolic as fuck, but also androgenic as fuck
Exactly
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oh please! those androgenic anabolic ratios mean fuck all. dbol is the best steroid ever for muscle gains, and its a shit drug on paper. :D
Please show me ONE guy who got huge off tren by itself ;) ask any old timer who used parabolan back in the day how much size they gained. Better yet run tren by itself without any prop, scale goes nowhere....Tren is an amazing compound for what it does but it has limited gaining potential. probably due to The fact that it doesn't aromatize.....
haha when did you take your first steroid
how many years ago
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Buddy of mine who posts here sometimes recently told me how he frequently woke up screaming
due to tren. :D
Your dreams can be very very vivid and that being the case, nightmares are NO FUN.
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Your dreams can be very very vivid and that being the case, nightmares are NO FUN.
I know, but my problem is more that waking life becomes a waking nightmare and sleep is the only
time I relax. :D
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No, I would say somewhere around the 400mg a week mark is where you start seeing sides like I mentioned.
QFT.....
sleep is next to impossibe, even with melatonion
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Sleeping at nigh sucks with tren, I am restless and wake up every hour. Other then that no problems.
Once I was taking 100mg of anadrol per day, as usual. Then I decided to up it to 150 mg per day. On the third day my nose was bleeding in the middle of the night, then on the fourth night my nose bled again, fifth night again, so I said the hell with this, dropped it back down to 100mg and no more nose bleeds, scared me a little so I don`t think I will ever do more then 100mg of anadrol per day.
People ask all the time what is to much, well your body will tell always what`s to much but don`t ignore it and everyone is different anyways.
nose bleeds are a sure sign of super high blood pressure. That is why you can't sleep either. With Tren your body never comes down. It is always on some sort of alert with your BP staying high 24x7. That was the shittest part. You never quite get tired and always feel like going. Once you do sleep it is brief. My BP was fucking through the roof. That part sucked. People don't realize that prolonged high BP will obliterate your kidneys. Not something to mess with.
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nose bleeds are a sure sign of super high blood pressure. That is why you can't sleep either. With Tren your body never comes down. It is always on some sort of alert with your BP staying high 24x7. That was the shittest part. You never quite get tired and always feel like going. Once you do sleep it is brief. My BP was fucking through the roof. That part sucked. People don't realize that prolonged high BP will obliterate your kidneys. Not something to mess with.
Nose bleeds were from anadrol and not tren, also my blood pressure is usually in normal range on tren so I don`t think that is the culprit for insomnia or what some call trensomnia, don`t get me wrong I totally agree with you but all I am saying is there is something in the tren that causes you to not sleep and it has nothing to do with blood pressure cause when I am on heavy test, eq and anadrol and blood pressure is through the roof I still sleep like a baby.
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Nose bleeds were from anadrol and not tren, also my blood pressure is usually in normal range on tren so I don`t think that is the culprit for insomnia or what some call trensomnia, don`t get me wrong I totally agree with you but all I am saying is there is something in the tren that causes you to not sleep and it has nothing to do with blood pressure cause when I am on heavy test, eq and anadrol and blood pressure is through the roof I still sleep like a baby.
It's like tren puts you on alert all the time. Maybe a little extra adrenaline or something.
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It's like tren puts you on alert all the time. Maybe a little extra adrenaline or something.
ya exactly
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I love a bit of Anadrol pre-workout and just on workout days. When you're dieted down on tren ace and test prop it makes you look insane. If you toss a bit of masteron into the mix you look like a walking cock.
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If you toss a bit of masteron into the mix you look like a walking cock.
A lot of bodybuilders come across that way regardless of drugs.
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I heard this from a guy I really trust .... cost effective .... 100mg Tren A, 150mg Test enanthate and 200mg Equipoise .... combined into one shot (just 3cc oil shot in gluteus maximimus) everyday other day..... and BOOM!! ;)
fixed ;)
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So tren isn't the way to go for someone looking to put on mass, of any kind? I've only ran test and deca before, fairly new to the game 8)
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So tren isn't the way to go for someone looking to put on mass, of any kind? I've only ran test and deca before, fairly new to the game 8)
No, it's good for mass building. But it's not going to pile on a ton of sloppy mass like other steroids.
Idiots become discouraged and think it's not good for bulking. I digress. It'll let you bulk lean and put on quality muscle. Bloofy physique =/= bodybuilding physique. Stack it with an aromatizing steroid if you're struggling to put on weight and you'll be tight and full.
I like cutting hardcore, then letting my body rebound about 5lbs with some pre-workout anadrol. Keeps you super tight but also super full. When you get bloofy and loose your lines it feels horrible, so I never do that.
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So tren isn't the way to go for someone looking to put on mass, of any kind? I've only ran test and deca before, fairly new to the game 8)
I've put on a ton of mass while on tren and other stuff
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Thanks for the replies.
What would you recommend for a starting cycle then? Only ever ran long esters, too.
I can get a blend that is Tren Ace, Test Prop. Mast Prop. 50mg of each per ml - would these ratios be ideal or should I go for something different?
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Thanks for the replies.
What would you recommend for a starting cycle then? Only ever ran long esters, too.
I can get a blend that is Tren Ace, Test Prop. Mast Prop. 50mg of each per ml - would these ratios be ideal or should I go for something different?
This is pretty balanced. I personally opt for 100mg of tren ace and mast with 50mgs of test prop EOD. I usually do a ml of a tri-blend, then half a ml or 50mg each of some additional tren and mast. That's the perfect balance for me. I don't like a lot of test, but to each his own.
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Does the masteron negate the use for any additional AI's to be used, or do you just observe day to day and react accordingly. What about caber?
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This is pretty balanced. I personally opt for 100mg of tren ace and mast with 50mgs of test prop EOD. I usually do a ml of a tri-blend, then half a ml or 50mg each of some additional tren and mast. That's the perfect balance for me. I don't like a lot of test, but to each his own.
That's exactly the mix I'm gonna try in few days, can't wait! ;D
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Does the masteron negate the use for any additional AI's to be used, or do you just observe day to day and react accordingly. What about caber?
Tren as a progestin gets rid of additional water.
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I used the cut mix and it made me really sleepy all day, chest pains while laying down, and poor erections. I got stronger but I had better strength gains on test e 500 mg 1-12 weeks. I used 400mg a week for 8 weeks and the results stopped around week 6. Dieting was really easy using tren.
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Does the masteron negate the use for any additional AI's to be used, or do you just observe day to day and react accordingly. What about caber?
People respond differently. I find that if I pin sporadically I get nipple issues, but the moment I pin EOD it's fine. It's really incredible the difference it can make. I've used caber before too and that also helped. I was going to get gyno surgery but some caber and mast eliminated my problems entirely. I'm very lucky and your mileage may vary, but masteron is awesome. It works differently than AIs and SERMs but is a good steroid for mitigating estrogen/gyno sides as it works through different pathways. I really don't like to suppress estrogen directly. I'd much rather my test just not aromatize, that way my lipid profile stays good, I don't get joint issues and my dick stays harder than a diamond in a snowstorm.
@deceiver, nice. 50mg of test and 100mg each of tren ace and mast? If so, it's a killer combo. Got me in the best conditioning of my life with ease. It's stupid how well it works, especially if you're already lean. The moment you throw an oral into the mix you swell up real nicely. Should be no bloat at all. I'm Filipino and we're naturally waterlogged and have thick skin, but not on this combo. Even when I dropped the two androgens I stayed really in shape for the longest time.
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People respond differently. I find that if I pin sporadically I get nipple issues, but the moment I pin EOD it's fine. It's really incredible the difference it can make. I've used caber before too and that also helped. I was going to get gyno surgery but some caber and mast eliminated my problems entirely. I'm very lucky and your mileage may vary, but masteron is awesome. It works differently than AIs and SERMs but is a good steroid for mitigating estrogen/gyno sides as it works through different pathways. I really don't like to suppress estrogen directly. I'd much rather my test just not aromatize, that way my lipid profile stays good, I don't get joint issues and my dick stays harder than a diamond in a snowstorm.
@deceiver, nice. 50mg of test and 100mg each of tren ace and mast? If so, it's a killer combo. Got me in the best conditioning of my life with ease. It's stupid how well it works, especially if you're already lean. The moment you throw an oral into the mix you swell up real nicely. Should be no bloat at all. I'm Filipino and we're naturally waterlogged and have thick skin, but not on this combo. Even when I dropped the two androgens I stayed really in shape for the longest time.
Well I'm 15% according to me and 13% according to Onetimehard :D Veins on arms popping, abs visible when flexed, first signs of veigns on legs showing up. Gonna starve and use tren as an anti-catabolic, it worked wonders last time I tried.
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Well I'm 15% according to me and 13% according to Onetimehard :D Veins on arms popping, abs visible when flexed, first signs of veigns on legs showing up. Gonna starve and use tren as an anti-catabolic, it worked wonders last time I tried.
Dafuq? I've seen your avatar and there's no way you're in the double digits! You look fantastic and will look even better after some tren and mast. 8)
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Dafuq? I've seen your avatar and there's no way you're in the double digits! You look fantastic and will look even better after some tren and mast. 8)
LOL, you've mistaken me with someone apparently. I have tons of fat on stomach man.
(http://images49.fotosik.pl/1745/62a32998d9701fcf.jpg)
I look like sheit hope this helps.
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50 mg tren A ed
50 mg test p ed
or
250 test E 1 pin per week
50 mg tren A ed
how long would you run them? 8 weeks?
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lots of fascinating drug advice in this topic...
i'll stick to beer & weed
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50 mg tren A ed
50 mg test p ed
or
250 test E 1 pin per week
50 mg tren A ed
how long would you run them? 8 weeks?
You will see better results using the one I underlined. Now tren at 100mg per day I would not run for more then 16 weeks for your average gym rat, but most do it for 10-12 weeks, now at 50mg per day you can run it for up to 6 months without any heavy taxation on the body, again for the average gym rat.
Just my 2 cents but cycles should not be lower then 10 weeks. I mean the real results start going at the 5 week mark so at least ride it out for another 5 weeks.
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Well I'm 15% according to me and 13% according to Onetimehard :D Veins on arms popping, abs visible when flexed, first signs of veigns on legs showing up. Gonna starve and use tren as an anti-catabolic, it worked wonders last time I tried.
Actually I changed my mind you are not 13% on clipers................. .
you are 12% ;)
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You will see better results using the one I underlined. Now tren at 100mg per day I would not run for more then 16 weeks for your average gym rat, but most do it for 10-12 weeks, now at 50mg per day you can run it for up to 6 months without any heavy taxation on the body, again for the average gym rat.
Just my 2 cents but cycles should not be lower then 10 weeks. I mean the real results start going at the 5 week mark so at least ride it out for another 5 weeks.
thanks 8)
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almost almost makes me wanna go hop back on tren and masteron and the likes, eventhough i said never again...
What sides do you get?
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What sides do you get?
Sweating, trensomnia and anxiety are the most common sides.
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What sides do you get?
Cant tell you yet, ask me when Im 50, if Im still around by then.
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From what country does tren come from? I heard about guys taking it in the US I just wonder how it got into the US?Is it a veterinarian steroids for animals? I would imagine it first makes it's way through Mexico.
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Powder comes from china like everything else.
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LOL, you've mistaken me with someone apparently. I have tons of fat on stomach man.
(http://images49.fotosik.pl/1745/62a32998d9701fcf.jpg)
I look like sheit hope this helps.
I shit. I must be then. All the best though. If you do some tren you'll surely shred down, especially if you've never used it before. It's the poor man's GH. Take ephedrine along with it and you'll spend an extra half hour in the bathroom every morning when you're checking yourself out. Same goes for at night too. Before bed it's too hard not to pull my shirt off and have a full blown posing session in front of the mirror. I always love throwing up a bitchin' front double biceps with cuts all down the front and nice separation and definition. Nothing feeds the ego any better than looking like a Greek statue. 8)
@oldtimer1 there's not too many sources for good tren pellets from what I hear. A lot of them have binders that can be a bit of a nuisance to get rid of. And certain brands actually contain estrogens because it helps to promote brutal mass in cattle. I know a few farmers who said they've used tren pellets to bulk up cattle and then use the non-estrogenic versions to shred them down before sale. If you can find it, you'll be sure to save money but it's usually a lot easier to just buy a dozen vials at a time and shoot for a bulk subsidy instead. There's a lot of good tren out there and it's not tough to find.