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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Parker on January 06, 2013, 10:21:01 PM
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Data suggests what uberman was getting at.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2257715/Study-shows-college-students-think-theyre-special--read-write-barely-study.html?ICO=most_read_module (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2257715/Study-shows-college-students-think-theyre-special--read-write-barely-study.html?ICO=most_read_module)
Books aside, if you asked a college freshman today who the Greatest Generation is, they might respond by pointing in a mirror.
Young people's unprecedented level of self-infatuation was revealed in a new analysis of the American Freshman Survey, which has been asking students to rate themselves compared to their peers since 1966.
Roughly 9 million young people have taken the survey over the last 47 years.
Self-love: New data suggests students today are convinced of their own greatness regardless of whether they've accomplished anything
Pyschologist Jean Twenge and her colleagues compiled the data and found that over the last four decades there's been a dramatic rise in the number of students who describe themselves as being 'above average' in the areas of academic ability, drive to achieve, mathematical ability, and self-confidence.
But in appraising the traits that are considered less invidualistic - co-operativeness, understanding others, and spirituality - the numbers either stayed at slightly decreased over the same period.
Researchers also found a disconnect between the student's opinions of themselves and actual ability.
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While students are much more likely to call themselves gifted in writing abilities, objective test scores actually show that their writing abilities are far less than those of their 1960s counterparts.
Also on the decline is the amount of time spent studying, with little more than a third of students saying they study for six or more hours a week compared to almost half of all students claiming the same in the late 1980s.
Important online: Trends like social media, celebrity culture, and easy credit contribute to students feeling as if they're more successful than they really are
Though they may work less, the number that said they had a drive to succeed rose sharply.
These young egotists can grow up to be depressed adults.
A 2006 study found that students suffer from 'ambition inflation' as their increased ambitions accompany increasingly unrealistic expectations.
'Since the 1960s and 1970s, when those expectations started to grow, there's been an increase in anxiety and depression,' Twenge said. 'There's going to be a lot more people who don't reach their goals.'
Twenge is the author of a separate study showing a 30 per cent increase towards narcissism in students since 1979.
Look out for No. 1: Narcissists often reach middle age and find their past full of failed relationships
'Our culture used to encourage modesty and humility and not bragging about yourself,' Twenge told BBC News. 'It was considered a bad thing to be seen as conceited or full of yourself.'
Just because someone has high self-esteem doesn't mean they're a narcissist. Positive self-assessments can not only be harmless but completely true.
However, one in four recent students responded to a questionnaire called the Narcissistic Personality Inventory with results pointing towards narcissistic self-assessments.
Narcissism is defined as excessive self-love or vanity; self-admiration, or being self-centered.
Twenge said that's a trait that is often negative and destructive, and blames its boom on several trends - including parenting styles, celebrity culture, social media, and easy credit - for allowing people to seem more successful than they really are.
Obsessed: Despite legions of self-help books advising belief in yourself, there's no evidence self-esteem causes success
'What's really become prevalent over the last two decades is the idea that being highly self-confident - loving yourself, believing in yourself - is the key to success,' Twenge said. 'Now the interesting thing about that belief is it's widely held, it's very deeply held, and it's also untrue.'
Despite a library's worth of self-help books promoting the idea we can achieve anything if we believe we can, there's very little evidence that raising self-esteem produces positive, real-world outcomes.
'If there is any effect at all, it is quite small,' said Roy Baumeister of Florida State University, who authored a 2003 paper on self-esteem studies.
Baumeister found that while successful people did have high-self esteem in many cases, it was unclear what actual caused their success if the first place.
Both self-esteem and success were often influenced by another factor.
'Coming from a good family might lead to both high self-esteem and personal success.' Baumeister said. 'Self-control is much more powerful and well-supported as a cause of personal success. Despite my years invested in research on self-esteem, I reluctantly advise people to forget about it.'
Twenge compared it to a swimmer trying to learn a turn who needs to believe that learning the skill is possible but who won't actually be aided in acquiring that skill by their belief.
1 in a million: Roughly 9 million freshman have rated themselves in the American Freshman Survey since 1966
'You need to believe that you can go out and do something but that's not the same as thinking that you're great,' Twenge said.
Studies suggest weaker students actually perform worse if given encouragement at boosting their self-esteem.
'An intervention that encourages [students] to feel good about themselves, regardless of work, may remove the reason to work hard,' Baumeister found.
But if you found yourself bothered by a person always talking about how wonderful they are, remember that their future may not be bright.
'In the long-term, what tends to happen is that narcissistic people mess up their relationships, at home and at work,' Twenge said. Though narcissists may be charming at first, their selfish actions eventually damage relationships.
It's not until middle-age they may realize their lives have had a number of failed relationships.
And even if they recognize something is wrong they may have a hard time changing.
'It's a personality trait,' says Twenge. 'It's by definition very difficult to change. It's rooted in genetics and early environment and culture and things that aren't all that malleable.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2257715/Study-shows-college-students-think-theyre-special--read-write-barely-study.html#ixzz2HGfvGEo9
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Of course young people think they are "the shit".
Reality hits most in the face with harsh ice-cold fist.
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The Western World encourages Narcissism, the economic model is based around it. Everything Westerners do is based on ME, ME, ME, they must have the best and latest house, car, boat, phone, bling, gadget etc etc, they must always be entertained and well fed and happy blah blah blah. The fact the world is falling apart and running out of resources and that millions have to starve and be exploited to accommodate this is of little consequence. As long as you have the latest iPhone, who cares right, I'm OK Jack, fuck everyone else.
:-[
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The Western World encourages Narcissism, the economic model is based around it. Everything Westerners do is based on ME, ME, ME, they must have the best and latest house, car, boat, phone, bling, gadget etc etc, they must always be entertained and well fed and happy blah blah blah. The fact the world is falling apart and running out of resources and that millions have to starve and be exploited to accommodate this is of little consequence. As long as you have the latest iPhone, who cares right, I'm OK Jack, fuck everyone else.
:-[
nice nietzsche avatar. do you know how scathingly he talked about anti-egoistic philosophies?
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The Western World encourages Narcissism, the economic model is based around it. Everything Westerners do is based on ME, ME, ME, they must have the best and latest house, car, boat, phone, bling, gadget etc etc, they must always be entertained and well fed and happy blah blah blah. The fact the world is falling apart and running out of resources and that millions have to starve and be exploited to accommodate this is of little consequence. As long as you have the latest iPhone, who cares right, I'm OK Jack, fuck everyone else.
:-[
Human nature is ME ME ME... What are you worried about most? Feeding yourself right?
That's just survival.
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nice nietzsche avatar. do you know how scathingly he talked about anti-egoistic philosophies?
You do realise I was being sarcastic, I hate the narcissistic model, ironically the individual is better off utilising a more community minded ideology (sharing), it just doesn't make good economic sense.
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Human nature is ME ME ME... What are you worried about most? Feeding yourself right?
That's just survival.
So, if your family is starving, are you still going to just worry about feeding me, me, me. The idea is to spread the concern for ones immediate family outwards and have a similar mindset towards the Human Family.
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So, if your family is starving, are you still going to just worry about feeding me, me, me. The idea is to spread the concern for ones immediate family outwards and have a similar mindset towards the Human Family.
Does that include gun-owning Americans?
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I'd eat a college student if I had to.
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Feels good to be a sociopath. There is a very very few number of people I would sacrifice my current lifestyle or to reach a better one in order to help someone else live better. Sure ill donate $10 to charity but I'm not gonna stop eating grass fed beef in order to feed a bunch of African children.
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Feels good to be a sociopath. There is a very very few number of people I would sacrifice my current lifestyle or to reach a better one in order to help someone else live better. Sure ill donate $10 to charity but I'm not gonna stop eating grass fed beef in order to feed a bunch of African children.
sociopaths don't feel
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Feels good to be a sociopath. There is a very very few number of people I would sacrifice my current lifestyle or to reach a better one in order to help someone else live better. Sure ill donate $10 to charity but I'm not gonna stop eating grass fed beef in order to feed a bunch of African children.
where do you get your grass fed beef? my local grocery store was carrying for a while, but it was obscenely expensive and eventually they stopped stocking it. :(
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sociopaths don't feel
god damnit
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Feels good to be a sociopath. There is a very very few number of people I would sacrifice my current lifestyle or to reach a better one in order to help someone else live better. Sure ill donate $10 to charity but I'm not gonna stop eating grass fed beef in order to feed a bunch of African children.
Not sure if you are serious but from reading your posts you aren't a sociopath, just the bog standard average selfish human, you just aren't as bothered as the average joe in hiding your selfishness.
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sociopaths don't feel
They do, jealousy for example.
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Feels good to be a sociopath. There is a very very few number of people I would sacrifice my current lifestyle or to reach a better one in order to help someone else live better. Sure ill donate $10 to charity but I'm not gonna stop eating grass fed beef in order to feed a bunch of African children.
Did you detect the presence of the 'I'm a special snowflake' attitude evinced in the OP in business school?
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where do you get your grass fed beef? my local grocery store was carrying for a while, but it was obscenely expensive and eventually they stopped stocking it. :(
Wegmans is a pretty decent size chain around here.. They have 93/7 grassfed ground beef for $5.50/lb, the actual steaks are a about double that or more though per pound. I can notice a HUGE difference now in taste, texture, how I feel after eating it. Not sure where you live at but there could be a farm around you that might sell you a half or quarter cow for cheap. That was my plan this year but they were sold out and reserved within a few weeks at one close by. It would be about $4lb in bulk, but well worth it to me.
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Does that include gun-owning Americans?
Well the concept is easiest with other like minded people, it is unlikely that people who suffer from irrational fear and anxiety (Gun Nutters) would be willing to participate (They are too scared). Those sensible Gun owners who use their Guns for a practical purpose like hunting could be of great benefit to others. Also if people were less narcissistic and more community minded their would be little need for guns for protection.
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Do you detect the presence of the 'I'm a special snowflake' attitude evinced in the OP in business school?
not where I went to school.. Maybe if I went to Harvard or something lol. The majority of people I went to school with were either similar to me and starting out, engineering managers at GE or Zurn or people switching careers. There were a few cock suckers in GE's leadership development programs that acted like their shit didn't stink, but were often times complete social rejects and incapable of functioning outside the confines of their engineering backgrounds. The professors occasionally did like to throw out the penn state name as being something special.. But in reality I think most of the people knew at this point in their life they weren't elite and just wanted a nice bump in pay or promotion. I had one professor though who was the prime example of a narcissist.. He actually almost failed me for sleeping in his class lol despite having an A. I definitely take responsibility for that though..
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Not sure if you are serious but from reading your posts you aren't a sociopath, just the bog standard average selfish human, you just aren't as bothered as the average joe in hiding your selfishness.
yea I'm not a full on sociopath or narcissist lol, although I have seen traits in myself of both.. I tend to be a pretty good person though and am often considered a very good friend in real life. I do majorly lack compassion for others though, unless a situation is completely out of their hands like some child getting cancer or something.. Not some homeless asshole asking me for a dollar to feed their alcoholism or some degenerate who never tried in school collecting welfare.
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sociopaths don't feel
They don't feel pain? They must make amazing soldiers! ::)
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They don't feel pain? They must make amazing soldiers! ::)
you're a smart guy, so tell me your definition of a sociopath
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you're a smart guy, so tell me your definition of a sociopath
There's no such thing.
I say this because I have the rather extreme view that what is real is exhausted by what our best theories of the world postulate, our best theories of the world being scientific theories. From this it follows that science describes what is real, to the extent that it describes anything at all. Commonsense and intuition are largely irrelevant to determining the way the world is.
This means that unless the term 'sociopath' is a necessary postulate of some properly scientific theory, there's no reason to believe it denotes anything. And to make a long story short, I don't believe psychiatry is a properly scientific theory (or set of theories). I think DSM is a book of invented notions that have their use in getting a handle on people's problems, but shouldn't be taken as literally true.
We can see this by looking at the definition of 'sociopath,' which is the indefinite description "a person with antisocial personality disorder" (at least, that's what I understand it to mean). When we look up antisocial personality disorder in DSM-IV, it says the disorder is characterized by "a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years." But the notion of rights is itself an invented human notion that has no basis in reality (unless you want to go the religious route and say they are magical properties ascribed to us by the creator of the universe). So psychiatry defines the notion in terms of something that doesn't even exist. We can reject the definition out of hand.
If they ever formulate a proper definition, I'd be happy to take a look at it. But that's only the first step; after a definition that actually makes sense is formulated, we'd need to investigate people and see whether anybody fits the description or not.
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Also, I'll quickly state why I think psychiatry isn't properly scientific: it is supposed to be the investigation and treatment of "abnormalities" or "disorders," yet doesn't bother to define the flip side of either concept, which is something like "normalcy." How can one describe what deviations from "normal development" are unless one has a firm grasp on what normal development is in the first place? Normal and abnormal are interdefined; you can't have one without the other.
Until a properly scientific way to define 'normal' exists, psychiatry will be a largely subjective endeavor that defines "normal" largely on the basis of contingent cultural and sociological factors, and necessarily the "disorders" will reflect this (since the disorders are defined as deviations from normalcy). I think one great example of this is the fact that homosexuality used to be defined as a mental disorder.
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But the notion of rights is itself an invented human notion that has no basis in reality (unless you want to go the religious route and say they are magical properties ascribed to us by the creator of the universe).
Once you read tbombz' response to this statement, you might seriously consider formulating a few new scientific theories of your own...
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Once you read tbombz' response to this statement, you might seriously consider formulating a few new scientific theories of your own...
I can't wait!
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Also, I'll quickly state why I think psychiatry isn't properly scientific: it is supposed to be the investigation and treatment of "abnormalities" or "disorders," yet doesn't bother to define the flip side of either concept, which is something like "normalcy." How can one describe what deviations from "normal development" are unless one has a firm grasp on what normal development is in the first place? Normal and abnormal are interdefined; you can't have one without the other.
Until a properly scientific way to define 'normal' exists, psychiatry will be a largely subjective endeavor that defines "normal" largely on the basis of contingent cultural and sociological factors, and necessarily the "disorders" will reflect this (since the disorders are defined as deviations from normalcy). I think one great example of this is the fact that homosexuality used to be defined as a mental disorder.
(http://forum.texasbbqrub.com/images/smilies/1233_hand_clapping.gif)
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Until a properly scientific way to define 'normal' exists, psychiatry will be a largely subjective endeavor that defines "normal" largely on the basis of contingent cultural and sociological factors, and necessarily the "disorders" will reflect this (since the disorders are defined as deviations from normalcy). I think one great example of this is the fact that homosexuality used to be defined as a mental disorder.
Psychiatry is a pretty crazy field of study, if you study the history, it's not hard to work out it's just a new age pseudo-science control tool, since religion is less popular in modern times, the Elites needed a new way to control the masses. Historically, not only was homosexuality considered a psychiatric disorder, so was slaves running away from their owners. The mental illness was called Drapetomania, it caused black slaves to flee captivity (lol). One of the causes was slave owners made “themselves too familiar with [slaves], treating them as equals.(lol)
These days Psychiatry is just as evil, if you look at Oppositional Defiant Disorder for instance, it's parallel with drapetomania is frightening. Symptoms are a pattern of defiant, disobedient, and hostile behaviour toward authority figures that persist for at least six months. It is characterized by the frequent occurrence of at least four of the following behaviours: losing temper, arguing with adults, actively defying or refusing to comply with the requests or rules of adults, deliberately doing things that will annoy other people, blaming others for his or her own mistakes or misbehaviour, being touchy or easily annoyed by others, being angry and resentful, or being spiteful and vindictive.
Children, after all, are in a form of captivity and as they get older may naturally resent having decisions made for them. They may especially dislike being confined most days in stifling government institutions allegedly dedicated to education (“public schools”). Some may rebel, becoming vexatious to the authorities.
It seems that the common denominator of what are called mental (or brain) disorders is behavior that bothers others which those others wish to control.
People do not have to be told that malaria and melanoma are diseases. They know they are. But people have to be told, and are told over and over again, that alcoholism and depression are diseases. Why? Because people know that they are not diseases, that mental illnesses are not “like other illnesses,” that mental hospitals are not like other hospitals, that the business of psychiatry is control and coercion, not care or cure. Accordingly, medicalizers engage in a never-ending task of “educating” people that nondiseases are diseases.
No one believes drapetomania is a disease anymore. Slaves had a good reason to run away. We all have reasons–not diseases–for “running away.”
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E-kul and Syntax in particular are hitting it right on the head here.
What is normal and right and wrong is blurry and it definitely has trades of a pseudo-science... but you probably need some sort of classification system, albeit unscientific.
Funny how different head doctors give different diagnoses as well isn't it?
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Generation nothing. Feels they deserve instead of working for what they want. Blames everyone else for the lack of success. Envies people who have anything but deep down feels they are just lucky or worse that they shouldn't have more than they do. The generation has no religious guidance and this leads to morals that have no compass. Thinks the government should spread the wealth around of the working tax payer.
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Also, I'll quickly state why I think psychiatry isn't properly scientific: it is supposed to be the investigation and treatment of "abnormalities" or "disorders," yet doesn't bother to define the flip side of either concept, which is something like "normalcy." How can one describe what deviations from "normal development" are unless one has a firm grasp on what normal development is in the first place? Normal and abnormal are interdefined; you can't have one without the other.
Until a properly scientific way to define 'normal' exists, psychiatry will be a largely subjective endeavor that defines "normal" largely on the basis of contingent cultural and sociological factors, and necessarily the "disorders" will reflect this (since the disorders are defined as deviations from normalcy). I think one great example of this is the fact that homosexuality used to be defined as a mental disorder.
Which is pretty interesting.. makes one wonder how future societies will look at pedophilia for example. Today it seems absolutely repulsive but you never know where the moral trends might take us.
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E-kul and Syntax in particular are hitting it right on the head here.
What is normal and right and wrong is blurry and it definitely has trades of a psudo-science.. But you probably need some sort of classification system. Albeit unscientific
Funny how different head doctors give different diagnoses as well isnt it?
Just ask Flex Wheeler about that...
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where do you get your grass fed beef? my local grocery store was carrying for a while, but it was obscenely expensive and eventually they stopped stocking it. :(
Trader joes
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Which is pretty interesting.. makes one wonder how future societies will look at pedophilia for example. Today it seems absolutely repulsive but you never know where the moral trends might take us.
Or even Republicans.
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::) The ALI and ARNOLD syndrome taken to the masses . Ad social media and its a catastrophy of nutjobs taking pics of themselves ect ect ect
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I guess many of those surveyed haven't taken a basic humanities or psychology course, perhaps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
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Which is pretty interesting.. makes one wonder how future societies will look at pedophilia for example. Today it seems absolutely repulsive but you never know where the moral trends might take us.
Well, If Islam takes over it will become the norm. ;D
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Ha. Great article. Generation Nothing you just gotta feel sorry for them. Im a 45 yr old guy and i work in the programming systems engineering industry for a large company and work w a bunch of these kids who believe they are it. They are a bunch of lazy underachievers. They jjst have no idea. Many of them have gone to college on a full ride academic scholarship. Good achools like Stevens and NJIT good technical schools. I went to a state school and have a pre law criminal justice devree. One in the same. I had to take algebra 3x before i was able to pass it in college. School just didnt come easy to me-maybe. I have. ADHD or something. I do the same job @the same level as all these self proclaimed geniuses-a vuy who barely passed the required math classes. Am i an overachiever or are there self centered brains lazy underachievers? They will be the 1st to tell u how smart they are. Most of these kids still dont make their own financial decisions. Ome guy has never paid rent or a mortgqge @26 yrs old. Lives in his familys apt bldg for free. I strongly suspect he will not date a chick without his folks approval.
So smart and independant. Classic self centered generation nothing.
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The Western ATHEIST World encourages Narcissism, the economic model is based around it. Everything Westerners do is based on ME, ME, ME, they must have the best and latest house, car, boat, phone, bling, gadget etc etc, they must always be entertained and well fed and happy blah blah blah. The fact the world is falling apart and running out of resources and that millions have to starve and be exploited to accommodate this is of little consequence. As long as you have the latest iPhone, who cares right, I'm OK Jack, fuck everyone else.
:-[
fixed.
You still dont get it do you.
Kids these days are raised by single mom who tell them they re the best. No father figures to tell them what REALITY is all about. They re little gods doing everything they want all the time, not part of a society, of a community, of something bigger. And they cant have stable realtionships nor start and cultivate families. This is the product of the atheist religion taking over the West. Complete utter self destruction.
Psychology and psychanalysis are self proclaimed sciences that dont cure shit, all these "specialists" always end sending their customers buy some pills. Should tell you everything you need to know about it. They re people paid to pretend to be someone 's friend. No more money, no more paid friend. In the past the community and religious people were taking care of the disabled. How healthy is that to pa to be bullshited by someone who will tell you more of you re the best and everyone is wrong; most of the time a psy tells you to cut ties with people and that you ll feel liberated... Also people are getting sick in the head since they abandonned religion, and as a result, need these "psys" and pills, again do the maths.
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fixed.
You still dont get it do you.
You still don't get it do you. You do realise that the majority of America is religious, it is Religion that has poisoned the world, it has actually CREATED suffering, the world will NEVER progress until religion is abolished. Evolution is in full swing, and atheists are the latest model, religion has held humanity back for millenniums, it will be the atheists who see in the NEW WORLD. Americans are predominantly Religious, and look how narcissistic, shallow, ignorant and murderous they are, yeah, Religion is a great help.
Atheists are the least violent, most tolerant, most intelligent, most progressive group in society today, but they are also the most hated (by religious groups who claim to be loving - lol), but because of our advanced intellect, our pity for the religiously indoctrinated and our broad understanding of the world, we take it all with a grain of salt. Atheists shall continue to help the POOR religious saps rise above their mediocrity, because, that's just how we roll. ;D
Hitler was a Christian, somehow it didn't seem to help his value system, he actually interpreted the bible to favour his ideology. HHMMM, Religion is wonderful, the Bible is a great example of genocide for the average dictator to emulate.
If your life in this world sucks, it makes sense to look to the next world and seek solace and comfort in a benevolent deity. The primary function of Religion is to help people cope with stress and uncertainty. If you have managed to do this on your own, Religion doesn't hold much value.
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Everybody thinks they're special until they get punched in the face
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Everybody thinks they're special until they get punched in the face
and they get herpes from a 57 year old woman off of Craigslist with 12 cats
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and they get herpes from a 57 year old woman off of Craigslist with 12 cats
True dat Matty. Quite the eye opener (pun intended).
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they are the 'indigo' generation. there is plenty of info about it out there
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The fact the world is falling apart and running out of resources and that millions have to starve and be exploited to accommodate this is of little consequence. As long as you have the latest iPhone, who cares right, I'm OK Jack, fuck everyone else.
BOOM
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Lots of great comments by the usual suspects.
Only thing that I can add from personal experience with psych. drugs and treatment - be very careful and do not seek sophisticated solutions for simple problems... much like with training and all other things in life.