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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2013, 01:01:07 PM
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/6-month-old-shot-multiple_n_2854326.html
Ridiculous. these people live like animals
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What ! ?
Gun laws haven't eliminated all gun violence?
That's hard to believe
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What ! ?
Gun laws haven't eliminated all gun violence?
That's hard to believe
Why / That is the bs peddled by the likes of Obama Feinswine and Ratlosi
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What ! ?
Gun laws haven't eliminated all gun violence?
That's hard to believe
Even harder to believe that the president's hometown, run by his former Chief of Staff, has much of the same bans that he wants to impose nationwide. They haven't created the gun-violence-free shangri-la, there. Yet libs think that imposing such mess nationwide is going to curb violence across the country.
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Why / That is the bs peddled by the likes of Obama Feinswine and Ratlosi
No one ever said gun legislation would eliminate all gun violence.
why do you feel the need to lie so much?
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Even harder to believe that the president's hometown, run by his former Chief of Staff, has much of the same bans that he wants to impose nationwide. They haven't created the gun-violence-free shangri-la, there. Yet libs think that imposing such mess nationwide is going to curb violence across the country.
Im sure you believe that speed limit laws prevent all speeding too
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This just in, new study reveals that seatbelts and air bags have not eliminated all injury and death from auto accidents.
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This just in, new study reveals that seatbelts and air bags have not eliminated all injury and death from auto accidents.
And what has strictest gun laws prevented or deterred? Nothing at all.
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Im sure you believe that speed limit laws prevent all speeding too
AAAHHHH!! The usual excuse-making for failed liberal policies, particularly as they relate to Obama and his crew.
Nobody claimed the laws are perfect. But, those that Obama and his supporters want aren't even "C-" level.
Chicago HAS locally what the libs want nationwide, when it comes to gun laws. Yet, that hellhole is the murder capital of the country (or doing an awfully good acting job, pretending to be).
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And what has strictest gun laws prevented or deterred? Nothing at all.
Like them "Gun-Free" Zones. Or banning kids from bringing cupcakes with army men on top. Or suspending kids for making their fingers in the shape of a gun.
Or banning a pink "Hello Kitty" bubble gun.
Or, here's a doozy: Booting a kid out of school for eating away parts of his toaster pastry, fashioning the remainder of it to look like a gun.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2013/03/05/pop-tart-gun-suspension-seriously-folks/
I thought Mark Steyn was goofing around, when he mentioned this earlier today.
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AAAHHHH!! The usual excuse-making for failed liberal policies, particularly as they relate to Obama and his crew.
Nobody claimed the laws are perfect. But, those that Obama and his supporters want aren't even "C-" level.
Chicago HAS locally what the libs want nationwide, when it comes to gun laws. Yet, that hellhole is the murder capital of the country (or doing an awfully good acting job, pretending to be).
typical excuse made by Repubs
if it's not not working perfectly somewhere else then it's a complete failure and can't work anywore and furthermore is somehow proof that no effort should be made to improve
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typical excuse made by Repubs
if it's not not working perfectly somewhere else then it's a complete failure and can't work anywore and furthermore is somehow proof that no effort should be made to improve
States w less gun control are generally safer so in my mind that is a sign what to do.
No - we dont need new laws - we need Thug Control - not gun control.
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http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/15/1599631/no-chicago-isnt-proof-that-gun-regulation-doesnt-work/
No, Chicago Isn’t Proof That Gun Regulation Doesn’t Work
By Zack Beauchamp on Feb 15, 2013 at 1:30 pm
Friday afternoon, President Obama will speak on gun violence prevention in Chicago. Charles C.W. Cooke, writing for National Review, previews the conservative spin, arguing that because Chicago has a high murder rate and relatively strict gun laws, it “defies belief” that the President would defend gun regulations there.
But Cooke and the other conservatives who will invariably make this argument today are wrong. Chicago’s gun laws aren’t the cause of the recent uptick in violence, nor does it prove that gun regulations are ineffectual. If anything, it underscores the need for tighter federal laws.
Most significantly, it is important to understand that Chicago is not an island. Although Chicago has historically had strict gun laws, laws in the surrounding parts of Illinois were much laxer — enabling middlemen to supply the criminals in Chicago with guns they purchased elsewhere. Forty three percent of the guns seized by law enforcement in Chicago were originally purchased in other parts of Illinois. And even if the state had stricter gun laws, Illinois is not an island either. The remaining fifty seven percent of Chicago guns all came from out of state, most significantly from nearby Indiana and distant Mississippi — neither of which are known for their strict gun laws.
It’s also important to put Chicago’s very recent increase in gun violence in perspective. Data from the University of Chicago Crime Lab’s Harold Pollack shows that this uptick, while certainly worrying, isn’t anything like a return to the historic peaks during America’s crime wave. Pollack notes that “Chicago ranks 79th on Neighborhood Scout’s list of the 100 most dangerous places to live in America…the idea that Chicago faces a unique or unprecedented rise in homicides is incorrect. Our problems are all too familiar and chronic throughout much of urban America.” Chicago, following the national trend, has experienced a significant downturn in homicides in the past decade and a half:
Chicago had an outright ban on handguns from 1982 until 2010, when the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. So there’s no reason to believe that strict regulations on gun ownership were responsible for a spike in gun homicides in 2012, two years after Chicago was forced to loosen its gun laws. Moreover, there’s simply no credible evidence that wider gun ownership or looser gun laws reduce crime.
So why did Chicago’s homicide rate increase in 2012? Pollack says “there’s no simple answer.” But he points to three factors are particularly important: escalating gang conflict as a consequence of police crackdowns and shifting gang territory, outdated law enforcement practices, and — yes — access to guns.
According to Pollack, access to guns significantly increase the risk that a conflict between two gang members escalates to homicide, as weapons designed to kill people (shockingly) make it easier to kill people. Chicago’s streets are flooded with guns: it has roughly six times as many guns as New York City per capita, despite its restrictive laws. So if gang conflict escalates, and the gangs have easy access to guns, the homicide rate should rise. This explanation fits with the fact that 87 percent of Chicago homicides in 2012 were gun-related. New York, by contrast, did not experience a surge in homicides in 2012.
The guns that fueled this fire came from a small number of individuals bringing guns into the city. A study of Chicago’s gun market (which, incidentally, concluded that tight enforcement of Chicago’s gun ban and restrictions significantly disrupted illegal gun markets) found that most of guns in high-crime neighborhoods entered through a small, tight network of suppliers and middlemen: “Gun suppliers report that 60-80% of their sales are negotiated through brokers (we assume the 80% figure) and by our own estimates gun suppliers account for around half of all gun sales in the GB community.” Because most criminals weren’t comfortable going out of their neighborhoods to buy guns, and Chicago had no gun stores in the city, they relied on this network to get them guns from outside of Chicago.
As explained above, the fact that suppliers could acquire guns so easily is a byproduct of the state’s lax laws. Illinois does not license or regulate gun dealers, require gun registration, limit the number of guns that can be sold at one time, or require background checks on private sales that aren’t conducted at gun shows. Chicago law doesn’t fill in all of these gaps. As a consequence, crooked firearm retailers have very little problem distributing their guns to dealers and police have fewer tools to deal with intermediaries who sell guns privately without background checks.
This is a national problem. Illinois laws, loose as they are, are the eight-strictest in the nation. Broader data suggest that 50 percent of all crime guns come from one percent of dealers. Since illegal guns can travel across state boundaries, federal legislation targeting crooked dealers, traffickers, straw purchasers, and private sales without background checks is the best way to address gun violence in cities like Chicago. Which is exactly what the President is going to Chicago to stump for.
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/11/police-release-shocking-footage-of-drive-by-attack-that-saw-up-to-11-shot-in-dc-this-morning/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=Share%20Buttons
Working great in DC too!!!!!
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States w less gun control are generally safer so in my mind that is a sign what to do.
No - we dont need new laws - we need Thug Control - not gun control.
great, please post link to support you claim
I've previously posted links showing the exact opposite
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http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/15/1599631/no-chicago-isnt-proof-that-gun-regulation-doesnt-work/
No, Chicago Isn’t Proof That Gun Regulation Doesn’t Work
By Zack Beauchamp on Feb 15, 2013 at 1:30 pm
Friday afternoon, President Obama will speak on gun violence prevention in Chicago. Charles C.W. Cooke, writing for National Review, previews the conservative spin, arguing that because Chicago has a high murder rate and relatively strict gun laws, it “defies belief” that the President would defend gun regulations there.
But Cooke and the other conservatives who will invariably make this argument today are wrong. Chicago’s gun laws aren’t the cause of the recent uptick in violence, nor does it prove that gun regulations are ineffectual. If anything, it underscores the need for tighter federal laws.
Most significantly, it is important to understand that Chicago is not an island. Although Chicago has historically had strict gun laws, laws in the surrounding parts of Illinois were much laxer — enabling middlemen to supply the criminals in Chicago with guns they purchased elsewhere. Forty three percent of the guns seized by law enforcement in Chicago were originally purchased in other parts of Illinois. And even if the state had stricter gun laws, Illinois is not an island either. The remaining fifty seven percent of Chicago guns all came from out of state, most significantly from nearby Indiana and distant Mississippi — neither of which are known for their strict gun laws.
It’s also important to put Chicago’s very recent increase in gun violence in perspective. Data from the University of Chicago Crime Lab’s Harold Pollack shows that this uptick, while certainly worrying, isn’t anything like a return to the historic peaks during America’s crime wave. Pollack notes that “Chicago ranks 79th on Neighborhood Scout’s list of the 100 most dangerous places to live in America…the idea that Chicago faces a unique or unprecedented rise in homicides is incorrect. Our problems are all too familiar and chronic throughout much of urban America.” Chicago, following the national trend, has experienced a significant downturn in homicides in the past decade and a half:
Chicago had an outright ban on handguns from 1982 until 2010, when the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. So there’s no reason to believe that strict regulations on gun ownership were responsible for a spike in gun homicides in 2012, two years after Chicago was forced to loosen its gun laws. Moreover, there’s simply no credible evidence that wider gun ownership or looser gun laws reduce crime.
So why did Chicago’s homicide rate increase in 2012? Pollack says “there’s no simple answer.” But he points to three factors are particularly important: escalating gang conflict as a consequence of police crackdowns and shifting gang territory, outdated law enforcement practices, and — yes — access to guns.
According to Pollack, access to guns significantly increase the risk that a conflict between two gang members escalates to homicide, as weapons designed to kill people (shockingly) make it easier to kill people. Chicago’s streets are flooded with guns: it has roughly six times as many guns as New York City per capita, despite its restrictive laws. So if gang conflict escalates, and the gangs have easy access to guns, the homicide rate should rise. This explanation fits with the fact that 87 percent of Chicago homicides in 2012 were gun-related. New York, by contrast, did not experience a surge in homicides in 2012.
The guns that fueled this fire came from a small number of individuals bringing guns into the city. A study of Chicago’s gun market (which, incidentally, concluded that tight enforcement of Chicago’s gun ban and restrictions significantly disrupted illegal gun markets) found that most of guns in high-crime neighborhoods entered through a small, tight network of suppliers and middlemen: “Gun suppliers report that 60-80% of their sales are negotiated through brokers (we assume the 80% figure) and by our own estimates gun suppliers account for around half of all gun sales in the GB community.” Because most criminals weren’t comfortable going out of their neighborhoods to buy guns, and Chicago had no gun stores in the city, they relied on this network to get them guns from outside of Chicago.
As explained above, the fact that suppliers could acquire guns so easily is a byproduct of the state’s lax laws. Illinois does not license or regulate gun dealers, require gun registration, limit the number of guns that can be sold at one time, or require background checks on private sales that aren’t conducted at gun shows. Chicago law doesn’t fill in all of these gaps. As a consequence, crooked firearm retailers have very little problem distributing their guns to dealers and police have fewer tools to deal with intermediaries who sell guns privately without background checks.
This is a national problem. Illinois laws, loose as they are, are the eight-strictest in the nation. Broader data suggest that 50 percent of all crime guns come from one percent of dealers. Since illegal guns can travel across state boundaries, federal legislation targeting crooked dealers, traffickers, straw purchasers, and private sales without background checks is the best way to address gun violence in cities like Chicago. Which is exactly what the President is going to Chicago to stump for.
LOL everything they used to excuse the gun violence in chicago could be said of the US as a whole. This article is plain idiocy...
guns arent the issue straw weve been over this many many many times.
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LOL everything they used to excuse the gun violence in chicago could be said of the US as a whole. This article is plain idiocy...
guns arent the issue straw weve been over this many many many times.
I know you don't believe gun violence is caused by guns or access to guns (to be more specific) but not everyone shares your unique point of view
Tell me exactly what part of the article is "idiocy"
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I know you don't believe gun violence is caused by guns or access to guns (to be more specific) but not everyone shares your unique point of view
Tell me exactly what part of the article is "idiocy"
Everyone in most states has wider access to weapons than the animals chicago DC and detroit and there are no problems - so what gives?
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Everyone in most states has wider access to weapons than the animals chicago DC and detroit and there are no problems - so what gives?
you know the answer already
It's Obama's fault
now STFU and let Tony respond
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you know the answer already
It's Obama's fault
now STFU and let Tony respond
I do know the answer - the problem are the thugs and animals and gang bangers who commit most of the crime.
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I do know the answer - the problem are the thugs and animals and gang bangers who commit most of the crime.
good, then go back and read the article about where most of the thugs and animals get access to their guns
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good, then go back and read the article about where most of the thugs and animals get access to their guns
So why is not the same thing happening all over the nation? Why? Becuase we have a thug problem, not a gun problem. Where the thugs reside there are problems.
Lock up the thugs and the problems solve themselves.
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So why is not the same thing happening all over the nation? Why? Becuase we have a thug problem, not a gun problem. Where the thugs reside there are problems.
Lock up the thugs and the problems solve themselves.
so you propose just sweeping the streets and locking up "thugs"
are you sure you're really a lawyer?
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I know you don't believe gun violence is caused by guns or access to guns (to be more specific) but not everyone shares your unique point of view
Tell me exactly what part of the article is "idiocy"
youre focusing on gun violence instead of violence. The guns are inanimate objects they do what the person wants. if a person has a bomb they will still use it to kill ppl if they choose to.
The article states that illinois isnt an island and that most guns come from outside of illinois. The US isnt an island, banning or barring certain guns wont keep ppl from getting them.
it states that "Broader data suggest that 50 percent of all crime guns come from one percent of dealers. Since illegal guns can travel across state boundaries, federal legislation targeting crooked dealers, traffickers, straw purchasers, and private sales without background checks is the best way to address gun violence in cities like Chicago."
it contradicts itself very clearly here, if they are illegal guns then the legislation for background checks wont address the issue. How are background checks going to help stop illegal activity?
it will just keep track of those that proceed with the background check, if they are already doing illegal activity you think more legislation is going to stop them?
LMFAO, I bet you think we can legislate evil away too.
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youre focusing on gun violence instead of violence. The guns are inanimate objects they do what the person wants. if a person has a bomb they will still use it to kill ppl if they choose to.
The article states that illinois isnt an island and that most guns come from outside of illinois. The US isnt an island, banning or barring certain guns wont keep ppl from getting them.
it states that "Broader data suggest that 50 percent of all crime guns come from one percent of dealers. Since illegal guns can travel across state boundaries, federal legislation targeting crooked dealers, traffickers, straw purchasers, and private sales without background checks is the best way to address gun violence in cities like Chicago."
it contradicts itself very clearly here, if they are illegal guns then the legislation for background checks wont address the issue. How are background checks going to help stop illegal activity?
it will just keep track of those that proceed with the background check, if they are already doing illegal activity you think more legislation is going to stop them?
LMFAO, I bet you think we can legislate evil away too.
and I'll bet you think there is no correlation with having a gun and shooting someone and not having a gun and not shooting someone
we already evidence (posted numerous times) that stricter gun laws lessen the incidence of gun violence
if 50% of "crime guns" can be traced to 1% of gun dealers then there is obviously an huge and easy target to lessen gun violence
I can go on about this but honestly have no time at the present moment and I doubt it would make any difference as you've convinced yourself that easy access to guns have no bearing gun violence
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and I'll bet you think there is no correlation with having a gun and shooting someone and not having a gun and not shooting someone
we already evidence (posted numerous times) that stricter gun laws lessen the incidence of gun violence
if 50% of "crime guns" can be traced to 1% of gun dealers then there is obviously an huge and easy target to lessen gun violence
I can go on about this but honestly have no time at the present moment and I doubt it would make any difference as you've convinced yourself that easy access to guns have no bearing gun violence
and there is also plenty of data that says that stricter gun laws dont help gun violence ::)
If youre concerned with the root issue which is the propensity to commit violence then you would understand how ignorant your view on guns is.
And exactly how do you plan on addressing them? background checks? how is that going to help?
what about the other 50%?
I could go on and on but youve convinced yourself that without guns violence wont happen.
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So why not focus on the corrupt dealers instead?
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typical excuse made by Repubs
if it's not not working perfectly somewhere else then it's a complete failure and can't work anywore and furthermore is somehow proof that no effort should be made to improve
Wrong again, Straw!!
Chicago's laws are NOWHERE NEAR perfect. Once again, your pathetic kneepadding (when Obama-style liberal policies fall flat) leaps beyond the absurd, foolishly equating not replicating liberal buffoonery with doing absolutley nothing.
Obama's hometown, with his former Chief of Staff running it, has practically become the murder capital of the country.
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and there is also plenty of data that says that stricter gun laws dont help gun violence ::)
If youre concerned with the root issue which is the propensity to commit violence then you would understand how ignorant your view on guns is.
And exactly how do you plan on addressing them? background checks? how is that going to help?
what about the other 50%?
I could go on and on but youve convinced yourself that without guns violence wont happen.
This mess is all about exploiting Sandy Hook and other tragedies, to basically eliminate the second amendment.
The reason the violence in towns like Chicago get put on the back burner is obvious: There's no political value to it.
Libs can't push anti-gun laws as effectively (if at all), when Negroes are the perpetrators of the crimes (there goes the evil right-wing, Republican, Tea-Party flap).
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This mess is all about exploiting Sandy Hook and other tragedies, to basically eliminate the second amendment.
The reason the violence in towns like Chicago get put on the back burner is obvious: There's no political value to it.
Libs can't push anti-gun laws as effectively (if at all), when Negroes are the perpetrators of the crimes (there goes the evil right-wing, Republican, Tea-Party flap).
Absolutely Feinstein at least comes out and admits she is using the deaths of innocent children to push her agenda, I don't see why her supporters can't do it a well
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typical excuse made by Repubs
if it's not not working perfectly somewhere else then it's a complete failure and can't work anywore and furthermore is somehow proof that no effort should be made to improve
Where in the United States has strict gun control been proven to work? ???
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6-Month-Old Girl Shot Five Times Dies
Chicago top cop said incident has "very strong gang overtones"
By Emily Florez and Courtney Copenhagen
| Tuesday, Mar 12, 2013 | Updated 9:48 AM CDT
A 6-month-old baby has died after she was shot Monday while her father was changing her diaper.
After several surgeries, Jonylah Watkins passed away Tuesday morning, Chicago Pastor Corey Brooks confirmed.
Jonylah's father, identified by family members as 28-year-old Jonathan Watkins, is in stable condition. He was changing the little girl's diaper on the front passenger seat of the family van when the shooting occurred, police said.
"The city of Chicago should be outraged that a 6-month-old baby could be shot and killed in our city," Brooks said. "It's horrific."
Jonylah and Watkins were both taken to hospitals in critical condition after shots rang out at about 12:45 p.m. Monday on the 6500 block of South Maryland Avenue. Watkins was taken to Northwestern Memorial Hospital. Jonylah was taken to Comer Children’s Hospital.
Police Supt. Garry McCarthy said incident has "very strong gang overtones" and the father, who has an extensive criminal history, was the intended target. Police are pursuing several angles, McCarthy said, and urge anyone with information to call Area Central Detectives at 312-747-8380.
"This is another tragedy, because no child, certainly not an infant, should be a victim of gun violence," McCarthy told reporters Tuesday.
Brooks said the baby's mother, Judy Young, is distraught and in a lot of pain. "We're going to find who did this and make sure they are brought to justice," he said. "We're not going to be afraid. We're going to take back our neighborhood."
Police are still looking for the shooter, who ran up from behind Watkins, fired, and then took off to a nearby blue conversion van, department spokesman John Mirabelli said. Bullets struck Jonathan Watkins in the buttocks and on the right side of his face. His young daughter was hit five times: in the thigh, shoulder, lung, liver and bowels, the family later said.
Witnesses reported hearing at least 10 gunshots.
"I just heard like a lot of shots and skid marks, so that's when I ran to the corner," said Patricia McGowan, who lives near the scene but was at a salon at the time gunfire rang out. "There is always gunshots and crime in the neighborhood, always drug activity in the neighborhood. ... It's heartbreaking. We're looking for a place to move out immediately because that could have easily been me coming from the bus."
Police said Jonathan Watkins has known gang affiliations.
The baby's grandmother, Mary Young, said her daughter and Watkins were just recently married. Judy Young was grazed by a bullet in the knee about seven months ago, she said, while Jonylah was still in the womb.
Pastor Brooks late in the day offered a $5,000 reward for information that leads to the arrest and conviction of the little girl's shooter. Brooks gained notoriety last year for camping out on the roof of a south side motel in an effort to raise money for a community center.
Earlier in the day, Chicago police Supt. Garry McCarthy touted progress in his department's efforts against crime. As of Monday, shooting incidents in the city are down 19 percent year-over-year, he said.
"This is a sobering reality we have a lot of work to do even though we're making progress," McCarthy said Tuesday.
Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/6500-maryland-avenue-shooting-197082281.html#ixzz2NLArXlll
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7 Shot At Club During Rapper’s Album Release Party
Chicago police suspect the incident was gang-related
By Lauren Petty
| Thursday, Mar 21, 2013 | Updated 7:23 AM CDT
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NBCChicago.com
Seven people were shot inside this nightclub on Chicago's South Side during a local rapper's record release party. Police said they suspect the incident was gang-related.
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Seven people were injured in an overnight shooting at a record release party at a nightclub in Chicago's South Side Gresham neighborhood.
Police said three men opened fire inside Mr. G's Supperclub on the 1500 block of West 87th Street around 1:15 a.m. A fight had started at the release party for a local rapper, police said, and three men pulled out handguns and fired into the crowd.
Six men and one woman were struck. The 19-year-old woman was taken to Christ Hospital in Oak Lawn, while the others -- men mostly in their 20s -- transported themselves in stable condition.
Police said no one was seriously hurt and all the victims' wounds were minor. Community activist Andrew Holmes said the woman was struck several times and is in critical condition. Police could not confirm those details.
"[The shooting] may or may not have been caught on surveillance cameras inside this place as well as outside," Holmes said. "But there was a female who was shot multiple times."
No one is in custody, and officials did not have a description of the suspects as of Thursday morning. Police said they believe the incident is gang-related.
Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/7-Shot-Club-Rapper-Album-Release-Party-Chicago-199331621.html#ixzz2OBDPFU1B
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicago-gun-violence-shooting-marquette-park-parking-spot-20130324,0,5585307.story?track=rss
Nice.