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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: arce1988 on April 08, 2013, 02:27:14 PM
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http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/08/smallbusiness/doctors-bankruptcy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Doctors driven to bankruptcy
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/130403150750-doctor-morgan-moor-620xa.jpg)
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NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
As many doctors struggle to keep their practices financially sound, some are buckling under money woes and being pushed into bankruptcy.
It's a trend that's accelerated in recent years, industry experts say, with potentially serious consequences for doctors and patients. Some physicians are still able to keep practicing after bankruptcy, but for others, it's a career-ending event. And when a practice shuts its doors, patients can find it harder to get the health care they need nearby.
Chapter 11 bankruptcy filings by physician practices have spiked recently, noted Bobby Guy, co-chair of the American Bankruptcy Institute's health care committee, who tracks bankruptcy trends tied to distressed businesses. Guy said there were at least eight filings in recent weeks, which he said was "very unusual."
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Five years ago, Plantation, Fla.-based bankruptcy attorney David Langley didn't have a single doctor as a client. Since then he's handled at least six bankruptcy cases involving doctors. Two current clients -- an orthopedic surgeon and an OB/GYN -- also are in bankruptcy.
None of his physician clients had malpractice lawsuits that landed them in dire financial straits. All are "top-notch doctors," he said.
The weak economy has taken a toll on doctors' revenue, as consumers cut back on office visits and lucrative elective procedures, said Guy, a bankruptcy attorney in Nashville with Frost Brown Todd LLC.
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Didn't read but I assume they are blaming it on Obama when the real cause is debt.
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Doctors also blame shrinking insurance reimbursements, changing regulations, and the rising costs of malpractice insurance, drugs and other business necessities for making it harder to keep their practices afloat.
Related Story: Doctors going broke
Oncologist Dr. Dennis Morgan had a profitable solo practice in Enfield, Conn., for years. Revenues began to fall, he said, when reimbursements for treatment and drugs to oncologists started shrinking. He made cutbacks, but he began having trouble meeting expenses, and his business debt grew. Critical chemotherapy drug and medical supplies providers "eventually cut me off," Morgan said.
In June 2011, his practice, in a medically underserved area, filed for bankruptcy. It had hundreds of chemotherapy patients at the time.
For the next two years, his role became "that of a captain of a sinking ship managing the allocation of life boats until rescue arrived," he said. He redirected patients to other doctors and area hospitals. Early last year, he stopped practicing medicine.
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http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/08/smallbusiness/doctors-bankruptcy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Doctors driven to bankruptcy
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/130403150750-doctor-morgan-moor-620xa.jpg)
So you guys don't want socialized healthcare? That's cool, we will just pass a trillion laws that will force 99% of small healthcare business to fail.
(http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/barack-obama-re-elected-as-us-president-pg.jpg)
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Didn't read but I assume they are blaming it on Obama when the real cause is debt.
Obviously 2000 pages of the new Healthcare bill had nothing to do with it.
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Doctors also blame shrinking insurance reimbursements, changing regulations, and the rising costs of malpractice insurance, drugs and other business necessities for making it harder to keep their practices afloat.
Related Story: Doctors going broke
Oncologist Dr. Dennis Morgan had a profitable solo practice in Enfield, Conn., for years. Revenues began to fall, he said, when reimbursements for treatment and drugs to oncologists started shrinking. He made cutbacks, but he began having trouble meeting expenses, and his business debt grew. Critical chemotherapy drug and medical supplies providers "eventually cut me off," Morgan said.
In June 2011, his practice, in a medically underserved area, filed for bankruptcy. It had hundreds of chemotherapy patients at the time.
For the next two years, his role became "that of a captain of a sinking ship managing the allocation of life boats until rescue arrived," he said. He redirected patients to other doctors and area hospitals. Early last year, he stopped practicing medicine.
Sounds like insurance companies are putting them through thr ringer. Also sounds like they are in hock with their supplier which is an indication they are buying way to much on credit.
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Thank god that healthcare is not exclusively private in Sweden. I would not like going to a busy doctor who is driven by monetary gains and on top of that risk that my clinic goes out of business if I become ill.
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Insurance companies.
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ok let me make a really dumb comment, wouldnt a conservative free marketer now say:
they didnt make it on the market, the market will fix this.
::)
They would say its big government regulations.
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ok let me make a really dumb comment, wouldnt a conservative free marketer now say:
they didnt make it on the market, the market will fix this.
::)
Health care is not a free market in the US, it's heavily mixed with strong leanings toward centrally planned corporatism.
There's a plethora of issues that are driving costs, with regulations and litigation near the top.
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Sounds like insurance companies are putting them through thr ringer. Also sounds like they are in hock with their supplier which is an indication they are buying way to much on credit.
Exactly. Without that debt there would be no bankruptcy. Worst case their business would go under and they would have to go work for someone else.
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The big ones will smile.
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http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/08/smallbusiness/doctors-bankruptcy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Doctors driven to bankruptcy
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/130403150750-doctor-morgan-moor-620xa.jpg)
Brutal red eyeshadow and jungle print blouse. Must have been forced to moonlight as an exotic dancer.
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ok let me make a really dumb comment, wouldnt a conservative free marketer now say:
they didnt make it on the market, the market will fix this.
::)
they can't since we dont have a free market. The government, Ted Kennedy to be precise, set up a system where good employers pay insane premiums for their workers to have coverage.
those super high premiums mean that self employed and unemployed people can't afford decent insurance since they can't pay $10k a month for good PPO insurance.
Factor in the government paying medicare / medicaid and state programs also driving up the cost massively (and consider almost 10% of medicaid's total cost is HGH fraud. No kidding.. gives you some idea how useless the government is here at running healthcare.. and why they want HGH banned!)
Now factor in 30 million illegal aliens, just as many junkies, homeless, drunks, ghetto trash and white trash who use the healthcare system but don't pay anything for using it. The hospitals pass those bills onto the paying customers through their insurance , which raises premiums
Now add in Obamas stupid bill which will drive up costs another 20-35% and healthcare becomes almost unaffordable.
Unlike in 1950 when people paid cash to see their Doctor and it cost almost nothing compared to today
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So you guys don't want socialized healthcare? That's cool, we will just pass a trillion laws that will force 99% of small healthcare business to fail.
(http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/barack-obama-re-elected-as-us-president-pg.jpg)
Has nothing to do with Obama. Medical Venture Capitalists and Insurance Companies have more to do with bankruptcies. The venture capitalist try to buy out these clinics and if they refuse, they make it very hard for them to do business. Insurance companies find every excuse to deny claims from paperwork to just plain old bullshitting.
This has been going on for years which is why so many people want Obamacare
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Now factor in 30 million illegal aliens, just as many junkies, homeless, drunks, ghetto trash and white trash who use the healthcare system but don't pay anything for using it. The hospitals pass those bills onto the paying customers through their insurance , which raises premiums
How they use the healthcare system if they dont pay?! i dont know very well the US system but as i know if you dont pay you cant even enter in the hospital if you have some injury!
i saw a documentary,a girl went to the insurance company and the employee couldnt tell her that her insurance policy does not have enough money to a life saving surgery!
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How they use the healthcare system if they dont pay?! i dont know very well the US system but as i know if you dont pay you cant even enter in the hospital if you have some injury!
i saw a documentary,a girl went to the insurance company and the employee couldnt tell her that her insurance policy does not have enough money to a life saving surgery!
They go to the ER. ER has to treat people.
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We have one thread with Drs making 50k a month and one with them going broke.
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We have one thread with Drs making 50k a month and one with them going broke.
LMAO!! ;D ;D
Getbig is the ultimate paradox! :)
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In Australia we have MEDIcare, publicly funded universal health care system, - Doctors make a killing, they have got like a revolving door of patients coming and going and checks from the Government just rolling in. Don't hear of doctors going bankrupt here.
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they can't since we dont have a free market. The government, Ted Kennedy to be precise, set up a system where good employers pay insane premiums for their workers to have coverage.
those super high premiums mean that self employed and unemployed people can't afford decent insurance since they can't pay $10k a month for good PPO insurance.
Factor in the government paying medicare / medicaid and state programs also driving up the cost massively (and consider almost 10% of medicaid's total cost is HGH fraud. No kidding.. gives you some idea how useless the government is here at running healthcare.. and why they want HGH banned!)
Now factor in 30 million illegal aliens, just as many junkies, homeless, drunks, ghetto trash and white trash who use the healthcare system but don't pay anything for using it. The hospitals pass those bills onto the paying customers through their insurance , which raises premiums
Now add in Obamas stupid bill which will drive up costs another 20-35% and healthcare becomes almost unaffordable.
Unlike in 1950 when people paid cash to see their Doctor and it cost almost nothing compared to today
YES!!!^^^
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We have one thread with Drs making 50k a month and one with them going broke.
And both threads by the same poster lol
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ok.
how does the govt make a doc go bankrupt?
???
why arent then all doc bankrupt?
Good questions. Not the govts fault all though they make things difficult, problem is these docs are going into debt.
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ok.
how does the govt make a doc go bankrupt?
???
why arent then all doc bankrupt?
I was only responding to your post regarding free market.
Government intervention in every industry and aspect of our lives has severely limited the free market. Still though, these doctors will just be replaced with those that are more capable (or those that our better propped up by, or not as limited by government intervention).
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The greedy did it to themselves and all the doctors. They had carte blanche to charge what they wanted and they had to reigned in.
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ok tell me what would by your guys definition be a free market and the hell would it do the docs any good?
go into details, im feeling intelectualy strong today 8)
As we stand now, as human beings there can't and won't be a completely free market economy. Government intervention and manipulation causes us more trouble than good. Politicians may (occasionally) have good intentions, but they're misguided and ignorant.
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im feeling intelectualy strong today 8)
Were you feeling "intelectualy" strong when you committed a crime that landed you in prison? I've encountered a few ex-cons, and they all seem to believe they're experts on most subjects, despite the fact that they weren't even smart enough to stay out of the penitentiary. ::)
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They go to the ER. ER has to treat people.
this.
My wife reads scans all the time of people who have waited until they are in major pain to go to the ER and they are riddled with cancer. Often she reads scans of young girls who are pregnant again 5-6 weeks after having a kid.
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I think you're confusing a free market economy with complete anarchy? No one is arguing for complete deregulation of everything.
I just want my government to fuck off, to their constitutionally mandated rules and limits. That's not so extreme
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There are alot of things at play...... too many (not just docs) living way beyond their means...... alot of folks losing sleep over obamacare...... and the biggest problem is the nanny nation..... my wife works Emergency Med and alot of people that come through the doors dont need to be there...... and a good chunk of those have no insurance or on medicare..... hospitals and insurance eat up a chunk and taxpayers foot the rest..... but you cant turn away a lazy welfare addict who fakes illness for meds because they spent all their govt check already..... i know i couldnt work there...... the elevator from 1st floor to basement would be working overtime....
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The insurance industry has ruined it for everyone. Doctors can't compete in a free market having to accept the terms of the insurance companies.
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but you cant turn away a lazy welfare addict who fakes illness for meds because they spent all their govt check already.....
They should have a special waiting room for them, one with gas and flames.
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Two major things are happening:
1. All practices are being forced to go to a certified EMR system, so older physicians are milking their practice to the end and letting it go.
2. Private insurance is absolutely killing reimbursement. They are trying to pay 60-80% of medicare allowable and many hospitals/free standing clinics margin of profit is killed. Republicans dismantling Obama's plan to have a competing insurance vs private insurance was the unfolding of his plan to allow big insurance companies to dictate your care and how much out of pocket Joe schmo has to pay. Complete meltdown of system on your not to far away future!
Vince, once again you open your mouth and show how little you know.
EKul-while you brag about no physicians going broke, tell us your survival rates in cancer vs American survival rates. You are good at copy and pasting, this should be right up your alley!
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Two major things are happening:
1. All practices are being forced to go to a certified EMR system, so older physicians are milking their practice to the end and letting it go.
2. Private insurance is absolutely killing reimbursement. They are trying to pay 60-80% of medicare allowable and many hospitals/free standing clinics margin of profit is killed. Republicans dismantling Obama's plan to have a competing insurance vs private insurance was the unfolding of his plan to allow big insurance companies to dictate your care and how much out of pocket Joe schmo has to pay. Complete meltdown of system on your not to far away future!
Vince, once again you open your mouth and show how little you know.
EKul-while you brag about no physicians going broke, tell us your survival rates in cancer vs American survival rates. You are good at copy and pasting, this should be right up your alley!
You fucking moron, these are RECENT AND FUTURE EVENTS that may or may NOT cause issues for doctors.
For those who have gone bankrupt or are in the process have issues that I mentioned that have been occurring in the last 20 years. It takes a very long time for a doctor to rack up the amount of debt to where they have no choice but to close their practice...all of which have nothing to do with what you stated....
(http://scorsese.free.fr/casino11.jpg)
Jag off
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To entertain your dribble of ignorance, is not something I would find entertaining.
Unfortunately, you are not capable of having a intelligent discussion because it it far out of your simple minds ability to do so. It is unfortunate that a dumbass like yourself can vote just like intelligent people can. Too bad for us that try and make educated decisions.
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one Doctor who Graduated from Yale Medical school 7yrs ago said he owe $687,000 in school loans......he said he's making $375,000/yr as an Anesthesiologists.....he should be able to pay that shit off in no time.......According to the MGMA salary survey (2012, based on 2011 data), the average income for anesthesiologists is $427,956. For those anesthesiologists who specialize in pain management, the average income is $529,347. Pediatric anesthesiologists average $464,412.
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Two major things are happening:
1. All practices are being forced to go to a certified EMR system, so older physicians are milking their practice to the end and letting it go.
2. Private insurance is absolutely killing reimbursement. They are trying to pay 60-80% of medicare allowable and many hospitals/free standing clinics margin of profit is killed. Republicans dismantling Obama's plan to have a competing insurance vs private insurance was the unfolding of his plan to allow big insurance companies to dictate your care and how much out of pocket Joe schmo has to pay. Complete meltdown of system on your not to far away future!
Vince, once again you open your mouth and show how little you know.
EKul-while you brag about no physicians going broke, tell us your survival rates in cancer vs American survival rates. You are good at copy and pasting, this should be right up your alley!
This is what I'm scared of. As if med for profit won't do everything it can get away with once your continuing to live become a financial liability.
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This is what I'm scared of. As if med for profit won't do everything it can get away with once your continuing to live become a financial liability.
We get challenged daily by insurance companies saying what we can do and can do with our patients. We often times do not get paid because we will choose to treat a patient that has better proven results. But unlike our uneducated friend Vince, he can not see how medicare cuts and having to do patients for free would not add up quickly! ;D
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High premiums, illegal aliens, government run healthcare, it's only going to get worst.
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High premiums, illegal aliens, government run healthcare, it's only going to get worst.
What the hell are you talking about? If there's 'premiums' to pay then it isn't government run. It's run by insurance companies. That's who takes your money and dictates what your doctor can do. A private company, run for profit. Not the government.
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one Doctor who Graduated from Yale Medical school 7yrs ago said he owe $687,000 in school loans......he said he's making $375,000/yr as an Anesthesiologists.....he should be able to pay that shit off in no time.......According to the MGMA salary survey (2012, based on 2011 data), the average income for anesthesiologists is $427,956. For those anesthesiologists who specialize in pain management, the average income is $529,347. Pediatric anesthesiologists average $464,412.
375/year means he's taking home 200-215. Considering he has to live off that, paying off 687k in "no time" isn't realistic. Even if he devoted HALF his take home pay, it's 7 years.
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375/year means he's taking home 200-215. Considering he has to live off that, paying off 687k in "no time" isn't realistic. Even if he devoted HALF his take home pay, it's 7 years.
shit, taxes are a bitch.....the interests on that loan will screw hiim up good
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Didn't read but I assume they are blaming it on Obama when the real cause is debt. Stay out of debt dumb fucks.
Yeah that's the problem ::)
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to the person who has a friend with almost 700k in debt, your friend is a moron. I am 100k in debt, granted I am not a specialist.
Also,I have a buddy doing oncology and the debt again is nothing like that. You get paid for residency, roughly 50 k a year, which is enough to live off so your friend must have put everything on a loan.