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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Roger Bacon on April 08, 2013, 09:05:45 PM
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/kermit-gosnells-abortion-_n_3017956.html
Kermit Gosnell's Abortion Clinic Was Chaotic Says Former Staffer Stephen Massof
PHILADELPHIA — A former clinic worker testified Thursday that he routinely saw babies born alive and then killed with scissors at an inner-city Philadelphia clinic that catered to minorities, the poor and women with late-term pregnancies.
But unlicensed doctor Stephen Massof also thought clinic owner Kermit Gosnell was trying to help vulnerable women seeking abortions. Dr. Gosnell, 72, is on trial for capital murder, charged with killing a woman patient and seven newborns.
"I believe that Dr. Gosnell was honestly trying to help women and protect them from abuse and neglect," Massof, a prosecution witness, said on cross-examination.
The statement came in questioning about why Gosnell kept fetal samples, including severed feet, in jars at the clinic. Massof said that Gosnell measured the feet to estimate gestational age, which could help confirm or disprove sexual assault allegations. Prosecution experts have said there are no sound medical reasons for an abortion provider to do that, when blood and other samples can be stored.
The trial is in its third week and is expected to last another month.
Massof awaits sentencing after pleading guilty to third-degree murder for two infant deaths. Eight clinic employees have pleaded guilty to various charges, while a ninth is on trial with Gosnell. Eileen O'Neill, another unlicensed doctor, is charged with theft for allegedly practicing medicine without a license.
O'Neill did not perform abortions, but instead worked in an upstairs office with older women and others seeking gynecological or general care, Massof said. She came downstairs frequently to confer with Gosnell, he told defense lawyer James Berardinelli, who was apparently trying to show that O'Neill was only assisting Gosnell with patient care.
Massof, who grew up near Pittsburgh, said he spent seven years doing graduate-level medical research at Yale, Johns Hopkins University and elsewhere, but then went to medical school in Grenada when U.S. schools turned him down. He called medical school his "backup plan," after a stint owning a bar didn't work out.
A mutual acquaintance led him to Gosnell's clinic, where he spent five years before leaving in 2008 over a dispute with other staffers. He was charged with murder three years later, after a 2010 FBI probe of Gosnell's distribution of painkillers spawned a raid at the clinic, and the more serious abortion case.
Massof smiled oddly Thursday as he gave graphic testimony about conditions at the clinic, which he said deteriorated during his five-year tenure. He made only $200 to $300 a week to oversee a high volume of second-trimester patients going through labor – and, often, delivery. He said he saw at least one baby take a breath, and another jerk its leg. Gosnell told his staff that such movements were "spontaneous," Massof said.
Massof estimated that he saw about 100 babies born alive and then "snipped" with surgical scissors in the back of the neck, to ensure their "demise."
Gosnell, who had another clinic in Delaware, typically came in only at night for the final part of the procedure, leaving Massof to monitor the pain-racked or highly sedated women.
"I felt like a firemen in hell. I couldn't put out all the fires," he testified.
Gosnell, meanwhile, took in more than $1 million a year, and kept $250,000 in cash under his mattress, prosecutors have said.
"He always led me to believe he was a poor, struggling urban physician and surgeon," Massof said. "I thought he was hurting financially."
Outside the courthouse Thursday, leaders of two black, anti-abortion groups condemned Gosnell as racist for aborting so many black babies during his 30-year career. Gosnell, who is also black, performed as many as 1,000 abortions a year, many to minorities and immigrants.
"Kermit Gosnell is a racist of the worst kind," Day Gardner, president of the National Black Pro-Life Union, said. "He is also a butcher who preyed on the women and girls of his own race – making millions of dollars from the desperation and despair of women from his own community."
The trial resumes Monday.
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Gosnell Worker: I Heard Baby Scream During Live Abortion
“I can’t describe it. It sounded like a little alien,” West testified, telling a judge and Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas jury that the body of the child was about 18 to 24 inches long and was one of the largest babies she had seen delivered during abortion procedures at Gosnell’s clinic.
West said she saw the child, whose face and features were not yet completely formed, lying on a glass tray on a shelf and she told a co-worker to call Gosnell about it and fled the room.
During her two years working for Gosnell, West said she also saw patients deliver “specimens” in the toilet, which she made a co-worker remove, adding she called aborted fetuses “specimens” because “it was easier to deal with mentally.”
She also testified that she saw many women come in who looked like they were too far along in their pregnancies to have abortions.
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goodness
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And if we tried banning abortion based on this incident . . . .
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Pro-choice advocates shouldn't feel any repulsion by this incident. I don't even understand why they get upset over Sandy Hook. None of them value life.
Adam Lanza and this quack contributed to your cause. They were destroying masses of cells in order to ease your concerns regarding overpopulation.
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It's really surprising that a clinic that employed UNLICENSED doctors (isn't that just another word for "person") would be so sloppy and do things that have "no sound medical reasons"
shouldn't we therefore cast judgment over all licensed doctors based on what these criminals did?
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It's really surprising that a clinic that employed UNLICENSED doctors (isn't that just another word for "person") would be so sloppy and do things that have "no sound medical reasons"
shouldn't we therefore cast judgment over all licensed doctors based on what these criminals did?
LMFAO!!!!! Coming from you who labels everyone as fundies etc?
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LMFAO!!!!! Coming from you who labels everyone as fundies etc?
that's your best response to my post?
btw - have I ever called you a fundie?
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It's really surprising that a clinic that employed UNLICENSED doctors (isn't that just another word for "person") would be so sloppy and do things that have "no sound medical reasons"
shouldn't we therefore cast judgment over all licensed doctors based on what these criminals did?
i'm assuming there were licensed doctors working there as well. thats why this place was in business for so long. and they WERE trying to help these women.......by killing their babies. these women did not want to give birth to a baby. this doctor helped them. question for you Straw. should he have FORCED them to give birth to a baby they didn't want if they were in their last trimester?
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i'm assuming there were licensed doctors working there as well. thats why this place was in business for so long. and they WERE trying to help these women.......by killing their babies. these women did not want to give birth to a baby. this doctor helped them. question for you Straw. should he have FORCED them to give birth to a baby they didn't want if they were in their last trimester?
this clinic appears to be nothing more than a criminal enterprise and has nothing to do with legal and fully legitimate medical clinics
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this clinic appears to be nothing more than a criminal enterprise and has nothing to do with legal and fully legitimate medical clinics
Sort f like legal gun stores, owners, etc being made a target now by the left wing shitheads due to the actions a psychotic mass murder?
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Sort f like legal gun stores, owners, etc being made a target now by the left wing shitheads due to the actions a psychotic mass murder?
Using any isolated incident as the standard is ridiculous.
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Sort f like legal gun stores, owners, etc being made a target now by the left wing shitheads due to the actions a psychotic mass murder?
you mean like when batshit crazy fundies harass women, doctors and medical staff and clinics operating within the legal limits
why can't you idiots ever make a legitimate argument about ANYTHING
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you mean like when batshit crazy fundies harass women, doctors and medical staff and clinics operating within the legal limits
why can't you idiots ever make a legitimate argument about ANYTHING
Meltdown much?
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Meltdown much?
you call that a meltdown?
perhaps you should think back to how you acted around November 6, 2012 for an example of what a meltdown looks like
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Sort f like legal gun stores, owners, etc being made a target now by the left wing shitheads due to the actions a psychotic mass murder?
YES!
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Philadelphia abortion clinic horror: Column
Kirsten Powers 9:01p.m. EDT April 10, 2013
We've forgotten what belongs on Page One.
(Photo: Yong Kim, AP)
Story Highlights
Butchering babies that were already born and were older than the state's 24-week limit for abortions is the story.
That one is murder and the other is a legal procedure is morally irreconcilable.
This is not about being "pro-choice" or "pro-life." It is about basic human rights.
Infant beheadings. Severed baby feet in jars. A child screaming after it was delivered alive during an abortion procedure. Haven't heard about these sickening accusations?
It's not your fault. Since the murder trial of Pennsylvania abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell began March 18, there has been precious little coverage of the case that should be on every news show and front page. The revolting revelations of Gosnell's former staff, who have been testifying to what they witnessed and did during late-term abortions, should shock anyone with a heart.
NBC-10 Philadelphia reported that, Stephen Massof, a former Gosnell worker, "described how he snipped the spinal cords of babies, calling it, 'literally a beheading. It is separating the brain from the body." One former worker, Adrienne Moton, testified that Gosnell taught her his "snipping" technique to use on infants born alive.
Massof, who, like other witnesses, has himself pleaded guilty to serious crimes, testified "It would rain fetuses. Fetuses and blood all over the place." Here is the headline the Associated Press put on a story about his testimony that he saw 100 babies born and then snipped: "Staffer describes chaos at PA abortion clinic."
"Chaos" isn't really the story here. Butchering babies that were already born and were older than the state's 24-week limit for abortions is the story. There is a reason the late Democratic senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan called this procedure infanticide.
Planned Parenthood recently claimed that the possibility of infants surviving late-term abortions was "highly unusual." The Gosnell case suggests otherwise.
Regardless of such quibbles, about whether Gosnell was killing the infants one second after they left the womb instead of partially inside or completely inside the womb — as in a routine late-term abortion — is merely a matter of geography. That one is murder and the other is a legal procedure is morally irreconcilable.
A Lexis-Nexis search shows none of the news shows on the three major national television networks has mentioned the Gosnell trial in the last three months. The exception is when Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan hijacked a segment on Meet the Press meant to foment outrage over an anti-abortion rights law in some backward red state.
The Washington Post has not published original reporting on this during the trial and The New York Times saw fit to run one original story on A-17 on the trial's first day. They've been silent ever since, despite headline-worthy testimony.
Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news. When Rush Limbaugh attacked Sandra Fluke, there was non-stop media hysteria. The venerable NBC Nightly News' Brian Williams intoned, "A firestorm of outrage from women after a crude tirade from Rush Limbaugh," as he teased a segment on the brouhaha. Yet, accusations of babies having their heads severed — a major human rights story if there ever was one — doesn't make the cut.
You don't have to oppose abortion rights to find late-term abortion abhorrent or to find the Gosnell trial eminently newsworthy. This is not about being "pro-choice" or "pro-life." It's about basic human rights.
The deafening silence of too much of the media, once a force for justice in America, is a disgrace.
Kirsten Powers is a member of USA TODAY's Board of Contributors, a Fox News political analyst and columnist for The Daily Beast.
In addition to its own editorials, USA TODAY publishes diverse opinions from outside writers, including our Board of Contributors.
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It's really surprising that a clinic that employed UNLICENSED doctors (isn't that just another word for "person") would be so sloppy and do things that have "no sound medical reasons"
shouldn't we therefore cast judgment over all licensed doctors based on what these criminals did?
and the people that worked there STILL think that he was helping people. they think that he's being judged unfairly. in their eyes he was helping women in trouble.
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and the people that worked there STILL think that he was helping people. they think that he's being judged unfairly. in their eyes he was helping women in trouble.
so what ?
there personal opinions are irrelevant
All that matters was whether he (or they) broke the law or not
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the bottom line is that even the pro choice line in the sand is silly and abitrary. basically 20 weeks into gestation you're a doctor and 30 weeks into gestation you're a murderer.
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the bottom line is that even the pro choice line in the sand is silly and abitrary. basically 20 weeks into gestation you're a doctor and 30 weeks into gestation you're a murderer.
The details of this and some of the pics are really almost too much to look at. This monster should be fed to snakes
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the bottom line is that even the pro choice line in the sand is silly and abitrary. basically 20 weeks into gestation you're a doctor and 30 weeks into gestation you're a murderer.
gotta draw the line somewhere and anyone who doesn't want to have an abortion (regardless of the line) is free to do so
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The details of this and some of the pics are really almost too much to look at. This monster should be fed to snakes
uh, since when do you give a shit about anyone
haven't you said you hate everyone?
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gotta draw the line somewhere and anyone who doesn't want to have an abortion (regardless of the line) is free to do so
the lesson here is not to judge anyone by the line in the sand that they draw. because the one in place right now is just as silly and arbitrary as any. i guess thats the point im always trying to make.
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the lesson here is not to judge anyone by the line in the sand that they draw. because the one in place right now is just as silly and arbitrary as any. i guess thats the point im always trying to make.
I don't understand your choice of "lesson"
you're saying I should not judge where others choose to draw the line (again - the line doesn't really even matter if you're personally opposed to abortion) ?
Does the same go for you?
What if a woman chooses to have an abortion because she doesn't want/can't afford a child
I assume you would have no judgement on that. Not consider it to be an irresponsible choice, etc.. Afterall, what business is it of yours or mine what she choose to do ...right ?
hopefully we can agree on that
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I don't understand your choice of "lesson"
you're saying I should not judge where others choose to draw the line (again - the line doesn't really even matter if you're personally opposed to abortion) ?
Does the same go for you?
What if a woman chooses to have an abortion because she doesn't want/can't afford a child
I assume you would have no judgement on that. Not consider it to be an irresponsible choice, etc.. Afterall, what business is it of yours or mine what she choose to do ...right ?
hopefully we can agree on that
i have my opinion on what is the responsible vs irresponsible thing to do yes. but i don't judge anyone or think that they're a bad person if they make the decision to abort. just as you should not judge anyone or think that they're a bad person if they're outspoken in their opinion that abortion is wrong. so yes we do agree on that.
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i have my opinion on what is the responsible vs irresponsible thing to do yes. but i don't judge anyone or think that they're a bad person if they make the decision to abort. just as you should not judge anyone or think that they're a bad person if they're outspoken in their opinion that abortion is wrong. so yes we do agree on that.
I have no problem that you or anyone think abortion is wrong
luckily we live in a country where anyone who might get pregnant can make that choice for themselves
don't you agree?
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I have no problem that you or anyone think abortion is wrong
luckily we live in a country where anyone who might get pregnant can make that choice for themselves
don't you agree?
well women can make that choice. if you're a man who gets girl pregnant you don't have a choice. for men life begins at conception. for women it doesn't. do you agree?
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well women can make that choice. if you're a man who gets girl pregnant you don't have a choice. for men life begins at conception. for women it doesn't. do you agree?
fine by me
I'm a responsible adult
women have the additional burden of having to be pregnant and give birth and it's their body so it's their choice
I have no problem with that
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@ Straw,
Why are vaginas the only place fundies want more Govt?
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@ Straw,
Why are vaginas the only place fundies want more Govt?
I don't know
why?
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I don't know
why?
Your vagina needs to be regulated ;)
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Your vagina needs to be regulated ;)
since when are you interested in vaginas?
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since when are you interested in vaginas?
Since about 11-12 years old i guess - remember having the hots for Samantha Fox
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Since about 11-12 years old i guess - remember having the hots for Samantha Fox
says the guy who can't stop talking about twinks and spends his free time searching the internet for pics of TBombz and then starting threads about it
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I don't know
why?
FWIW, it is a way to keep poor people poor so there's less competition.
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FWIW, it is a way to keep poor people poor so there's less competition.
::)
You can't be this retarded can you?
In the first place, countries with lower birth rates are on the path for disaster as the demographic shifts from working age people into the elderly.
Secondly, I'm pretty sure that poor people still exist with or without wholesale abortion.
Today, poverty in the United States has reached historic levels despite millions upon millions of aborted babies.
By your moronic philosophical observation, shouldn't poverty have been wiped out by now?
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::)
You can't be this retarded can you?
In the first place, countries with lower birth rates are on the path for disaster as the demographic shifts from working age people into the elderly.
Secondly, I'm pretty sure that poor people still exist with or without wholesale abortion.
Today, poverty in the United States has reached historic levels despite millions upon millions of aborted babies.
By your moronic philosophical observation, shouldn't poverty have been wiped out by now?
People who actually cared about the unborn would be working their asses off to create a better world for them to live in.
There has to be another reason why extremists on both sides of this issue exist.
According to the CDC: In 2009, 784,507 legal induced abortions were performed. Where are you getting millions upon millions from? Is this another one of those whacky numbers people throw out that no one bothers to question?
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People who actually cared about the unborn would be working their asses off to create a better world for them to live in.
There has to be another reason why extremists on both sides of this issue exist.
According to the CDC: In 2009, 784,507 legal induced abortions were performed. Where are you getting millions upon millions from? Is this another one of those whacky numbers people throw out that no one bothers to question?
784,507 in 2009 you say. So that's more than three quarters of a million in a single year. Were no legal abortions performed before 2009? How about after 2009? Being that legalized abortion has been the law of the land for several decades at this point, I think its safe to say the number is clearly into the 10's of millions. Before you post meaningless figures, use your brain a little bit. Since 1973, the CDC places the figure at 50 million.
As to your point in bold-- that would once again be the job of the parent, not all people who care about the unborn. ::)
What kind of delusional commentary is that? How about assigning some responsibility to the crack addict aborting the baby in the first place?