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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: dawgteam on December 19, 2005, 09:43:18 AM

Title: New To it
Post by: dawgteam on December 19, 2005, 09:43:18 AM
I am getting ready for my 2nd cycle.  I am 38, 220 lbs.  My first cycle was deca, proviron, winstrol, with clomid at the end.  What this a good cycle and if not, what should I try?
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Blake on December 19, 2005, 10:00:39 AM
Where's the testosterone?

Whatever you choose to run next, use testosterone as a base.

BTW, what sort of results did you get from your first cycle?
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: dawgteam on December 19, 2005, 10:55:43 AM
The results were OK.  I did gain about 15 lbs of which 10 I have retained.  If I use test (sust), what should that cycle look like?
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: muscle19 on December 19, 2005, 11:12:02 AM
hey bro, glad to hear u r going to use test, li ke said above, always use test.

now if this is ur 2nd cycle i would do this:

sust-750mg/wk 1-12 (shot mon, wed, fri)
deca or eq-600mg/wk 1-10 (shot with the sust)
winny-50mg ed 6-12
hcg-500ius every 5 days 1-12

use the deca if u r going for more of a bulking cycle and eq if u want a clean lean mass gains. the winny will help harden up at the end with additional lbs.
For pct, i would use a combination of clomid and nolva starting 11/2-2 wks after last test shot:

nolva-60mg day 1                               clomid-100mg/day 1
days 2-28 use 20mg/day                    days 2-28 use 50mg/day

hope this helps and if anyone else has any changes feel free to chime in.
good luck bro


muscle       
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Arnold jr on December 19, 2005, 03:25:52 PM
hey bro, glad to hear u r going to use test, li ke said above, always use test.

now if this is ur 2nd cycle i would do this:

sust-750mg/wk 1-12 (shot mon, wed, fri)
deca or eq-600mg/wk 1-10 (shot with the sust)
winny-50mg ed 6-12
hcg-500ius every 5 days 1-12

use the deca if u r going for more of a bulking cycle and eq if u want a clean lean mass gains. the winny will help harden up at the end with additional lbs.
For pct, i would use a combination of clomid and nolva starting 11/2-2 wks after last test shot:

nolva-60mg day 1                               clomid-100mg/day 1
days 2-28 use 20mg/day                    days 2-28 use 50mg/day

hope this helps and if anyone else has any changes feel free to chime in.
good luck bro


muscle       

Agreed.

Looks like a solid cycle!
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: dawgteam on December 19, 2005, 06:38:58 PM
Thanks all for the cycle.  I will let you know how it goes.  I plan to start it early January.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: dawgteam on December 19, 2005, 06:41:50 PM
Hey one last question.  Why the hcg during the cycle.  I thought this was used pct.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: DIVISION on December 19, 2005, 08:13:45 PM
DIVISIONAL CHANGES:

d-bol  50mg/wk 1-4
sust 500mg/wk 1-12
deca 300/wk 1-12
winny-50mg ed 11-16
test prop 100mg/ed 13-16
hcg-500ius e5d 1-16
arimidex 1mg eod   1-16




DIV

Title: Re: New To it
Post by: bravo on December 19, 2005, 08:25:50 PM
DIVISIONAL CHANGES:

d-bol  50mg/wk 1-4
sust 500mg/wk 1-12
deca 300/wk 1-12
winny-50mg ed 11-16
test prop 100mg/ed 13-16
hcg-500ius e5d 1-16
arimidex 1mg eod   1-16

I'm liking the DIV changes alot....well balanced and proportioned in and out the door.




DIV


Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Luv2Hurt on December 19, 2005, 08:29:32 PM
Yeah that should see some good results, just maybe overlap the tests for a week or so, to assure no dips in blood levels.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: dawgteam on December 19, 2005, 08:49:42 PM
Would I still need the nolva and the clomid that muscle19 suggested?
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: DIVISION on December 19, 2005, 09:19:35 PM
Would I still need the nolva and the clomid that muscle19 suggested?

YES.

I didn't touch the PCT.

Just the cycle.




DIV
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: muscle19 on December 20, 2005, 08:46:40 AM
either one will work, good stuff guys!


muscle
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: IFBBwannaB on December 20, 2005, 08:54:06 AM
I personly wouldnt touch Deca with a pogo stick.


Further more when using long esters I would reccomend dropign them 1month before you end the cycle and switching to short esters.
By taking last shot of Deca or Sust at 12 week and a few days later starting PCT you do nothing.
Your body will have elavated levels of androgens for quite a while thus making your PCT worthless.

And stacking Clomid and Nolva? Err...why?

And again with the 500IU HCG /5days....sigh....
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Arnold jr on December 20, 2005, 02:34:07 PM
I personly wouldnt touch Deca with a pogo stick.


Further more when using long esters I would reccomend dropign them 1month before you end the cycle and switching to short esters.
By taking last shot of Deca or Sust at 12 week and a few days later starting PCT you do nothing.
Your body will have elavated levels of androgens for quite a while thus making your PCT worthless.

And stacking Clomid and Nolva? Err...why?

And again with the 500IU HCG /5days....sigh....

First off, what's wrong with deca? This is one of the most basic and golden items we have to choose from.

Second, this cycle will work fine... he just needs to start pct 3wk after last injection.

Finlay, what's wrong with hcg?

Title: Re: New To it
Post by: DIVISION on December 20, 2005, 03:49:09 PM
I personly wouldnt touch Deca with a pogo stick.
Further more when using long esters I would reccomend dropign them 1month before you end the cycle and switching to short esters.
By taking last shot of Deca or Sust at 12 week and a few days later starting PCT you do nothing.
Your body will have elavated levels of androgens for quite a while thus making your PCT worthless.

If you paid attention to the cycle changes I posted, you would see that I stopped his Deca and Sustanon 4 weeks out and replaced them with Test Prop. and Winstrol.  Prop will clear fast and Winstrol does not bind to the androgen receptor like other AAS do, so it is in and out as well.  Do you read the posts before you blindly make comments?

I have been preaching about dropping the long-acting esters about 4 weeks out for awhile now.

As far as his PCT, I didn't change that.  I'm here to give recommendations, but sometimes people need to read for themselves......

I won't do everything.

First off, what's wrong with deca? This is one of the most basic and golden items we have to choose from.

Second, this cycle will work fine... he just needs to start pct 3wk after last injection.

Finlay, what's wrong with hcg?

Nothing is wrong with the cycle, Arnold jr.

I think "IFBBwannaB" just has an attitude problem or is on some clomid...... ::)

I'm guessing he thinks Deca is a bad choice because it's so supressive.  That being said, you can work around that by using HCG for the duration of the cycle.

Nothing is wrong with HCG, he's just whining because I recommend 500IU e5d instead of EOD.



DIV
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: IFBBwannaB on December 21, 2005, 12:12:55 AM
Stacking Clomid and Nolva is useless since they both work the same,even your cherised Dr says the same.

Deca....what is good about it?
Water retantion which wont go away with simple Nolva.
Suppressive like mad,and HCG wont help that too much Progestron can screw up  with your hormonal axis really bad.
Stays in the body long after its ester is claimed,and supress you for quite a while.

HCG,well if you wanna destroy your tests  insted of preserving them then large amnouts on long intervals sounds about right.

I see NO reason to use it.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: DIVISION on December 21, 2005, 01:02:25 AM
Deca....what is good about it?

One of the top 3 pure anabolics on the market today.

Blocks cortisol receptors in the joint tissue effectively negating wear and tear.

Synergistic when stacked with other anabolics in the same cycle, will promote satellite cell growth when used long enough (12+ weeks).





DIV
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Luv2Hurt on December 21, 2005, 04:30:42 AM
Deca is a great anabolic, sidey?.....yes.  just gotta know how to run it.  Personally I feel deca needs to be run on long cycles, 20 weeks minimum.  16 on the the deca and at least 4 weeks getting that sh*t out.

When I was much less informed and experienced I finished a cycle on JUST deca!  OMG that had me f*cked up for over 5 months.....so bad I jumped back on a proper cycle and did a proper PCT and things got better real fast.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: DIVISION on December 21, 2005, 01:42:54 PM
Deca is a great anabolic, sidey?.....yes.  just gotta know how to run it.  Personally I feel deca needs to be run on long cycles, 20 weeks minimum.  16 on the the deca and at least 4 weeks getting that sh*t out.

When I was much less informed and experienced I finished a cycle on JUST deca!  OMG that had me f*cked up for over 5 months.....so bad I jumped back on a proper cycle and did a proper PCT and things got better real fast.

Deca is the type of "Ride" you had better be prepared for before you start, because there's no getting off midstream....




DIV
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: HickoryStick on December 21, 2005, 01:46:15 PM
why?
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: DIVISION on December 21, 2005, 01:52:25 PM
why?

It's already been outlined..........read the forum.





DIV
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: IFBBwannaB on December 21, 2005, 02:27:07 PM
There are quite a few more then 3 "pure" anabolic steroids out there.They may be less aviable and more expensive but not to the extant I would resort to Deca usage.

Synergistic ...which AAS arent to that extant that you would put that as such an advantage? You have any based proofs for this?


You really dont wanna know how bad is high prolactin and progesteron levels.
Unless you use just about all the substances there are I see no reason to use Deca.It will bloat you,supress you and wont do much that any other substance will.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Arnold jr on December 21, 2005, 03:15:58 PM
There are quite a few more then 3 "pure" anabolic steroids out there.They may be less aviable and more expensive but not to the extant I would resort to Deca usage.

Synergistic ...which AAS arent to that extant that you would put that as such an advantage? You have any based proofs for this?


You really dont wanna know how bad is high prolactin and progesteron levels.
Unless you use just about all the substances there are I see no reason to use Deca.It will bloat you,supress you and wont do much that any other substance will.
Sorry bro, but your dead wrong hear

You got me wondering though... did you once run a cycle of deca with no test, and is it this bad experience perhaps that has left you feeling the way you do about deca? Or are you just basing your claims on opinion, not experience or facts.

Your right, deca can bring about a lot of sides, but so can a lot of the stuff... but even so, with proper precautions taken most if not all of these sides can be minimized and even avoided in most cases.

Last off, I think you are demonizing deca when a whole lot of other substances are much more dangerous... especially for an ill-advised user.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: IFBBwannaB on December 21, 2005, 03:25:29 PM
Hmm....well Mr.Jr since you talk facts please show me some.
I base my opinions from personal and friends experiance and studies.I need to look those studies up now which take a while.

But please feel free to post all the facts you got that support Deca as such an amazing substance.


BTW I didnt mentioned any other substance so please dont tell me why I decide Deca is lame.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Arnold jr on December 21, 2005, 03:57:32 PM
Hmm....well Mr.Jr since you talk facts please show me some.
I base my opinions from personal and friends experiance and studies.I need to look those studies up now which take a while.

But please feel free to post all the facts you got that support Deca as such an amazing substance.


BTW I didnt mentioned any other substance so please dont tell me why I decide Deca is lame.
Nandrolone decanoate causes the muscle cells to store more nitrogen than it releases, a positive nitrogen balance is reached.  A positive nitrogen balance equals muscle growth, since the muscle cells in this phase accumulate a larger amount of pro-tein than usual.

Because deca is a moderately androgenic component a big gain in size and strength will occur.  Along with this deca stores more water in the connective tissues, it can temporarily cure or mask existing pain in joints. This is  great for anyone with pain in the shoulder, elbow, and knee... they can often enjoy pain-free workouts during deca usage.

Deca is  above average, and better than many other drugs available when it comes to  developing muscle mass since it promotes the protein synthesis and simultaneously leads to water retention.  This water retention along with other undesirable sides, such as: high blood pressure, pro-longed time for blood clotting, which can cause frequent nasal bleeding  is alot of the times a reason many stay away from deca,but the risk of  these sides are just that risk... and they can be avoided and   prevented by using arimidex or the combo of  Proviron with Nolvadex, and by also ensuring that your test deca ratio is in balance

Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Luv2Hurt on December 21, 2005, 06:17:05 PM
There are quite a few more then 3 "pure" anabolic steroids out there.They may be less aviable and more expensive but not to the extant I would resort to Deca usage.

Synergistic ...which AAS arent to that extant that you would put that as such an advantage? You have any based proofs for this?


You really dont wanna know how bad is high prolactin and progesteron levels.
Unless you use just about all the substances there are I see no reason to use Deca.It will bloat you,supress you and wont do much that any other substance will.

Geezzz Louise  ::)

Sooooooo many people have good results with deca.....your fear of it is unfounded....just get educated on it's proper use and everything will be OK.  This juice is I will repeat, a great anabolic.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: IFBBwannaB on December 21, 2005, 11:46:52 PM
Great results have nothing to do with it,you can have great results using Cockain to diet and I actualy know people who did so.But is that smart?

Arnold: Everything you said goes for just about every other steroid.
Further more you are wrong about side effects,you will NOT prevent Deca water retatntion with Nolva and Proviron since Deca dosent work that way.

Go read some and come back when you know what the hell you talk about.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: DIVISION on December 22, 2005, 01:17:02 AM
Geezzz Louise  ::)

Sooooooo many people have good results with deca.....your fear of it is unfounded....just get educated on it's proper use and everything will be OK.  This juice is I will repeat, a great anabolic.


Deca is by far one of the best pure anabolics out today.

If your Test:Deca ratio is 2:1 you will be fine regarding Decadick and if you are so worried about bloat, you can use Armidex 1MG ED if you so choose. 

Stacked with Test and Winstrol, Deca is pure fire......like nothing else......




DIV


Title: Re: New To it
Post by: IFBBwannaB on December 22, 2005, 03:29:58 AM
GOD! Arimidex wont help againt Deca bloat.
Go read some.

Title: Re: New To it
Post by: bravo on December 22, 2005, 03:55:54 AM
IFBBWB:  could you please stop engaging in a pissing contest and enlighten us with the actual scientific data you have purported to be in support of your notes....anecdotal info from your use or your friends or hearsay does not help those of us without your experience trust what is being said.  As of now, the numbers here are against your argument.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: jdoug on December 22, 2005, 06:59:21 AM
GOD! Arimidex wont help againt Deca bloat.
Go read some.



BANNED?
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: mem on December 22, 2005, 07:17:24 AM
GOD! Arimidex wont help againt Deca bloat.
Go read some.



WHAO! go *read some*?!? (I almost avoided this thread B U T !)

I have been using cypionate and deca . . .  N O T consistent with my experience . . .
I didn't (read about and) form a conclusion . . . my first hand experience.

Z E R O  bloat - wannabe - when using Arimidex.
EG: I was doing the 2 : 1 ratio to test/deca too . . .

IF anything I almost * m i s s e d * the volumized
fullness with a little bit of estrogen.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: IFBBwannaB on December 22, 2005, 08:15:14 AM
Deca bloat aint caused from Estrogen thats why neither Arimidex or Nolva helps.
To fight Deca bloat you need to use Brombo (forogt the full name).

Im not going to give you all the details ,if you wanna know more just run a search.These forums hold ALL the nessecry info.I aint going to do your dirty work for you.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Blake on December 22, 2005, 11:05:58 AM
To fight Deca bloat you need to use Brombo (forogt the full name).

I would agree w/ this.  Nandrolone does affect progesterone receptors.  Progesterone stimulates prolactin production.  Bromocriptine helps to lower prolactin levels.
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: DIVISION on December 22, 2005, 11:54:59 AM
Deca bloat aint caused from Estrogen thats why neither Arimidex or Nolva helps.
To fight Deca bloat you need to use Brombo (forogt the full name).

Im not going to give you all the details ,if you wanna know more just run a search.These forums hold ALL the nessecry info.I aint going to do your dirty work for you.

It's called Bromocriptine (Parlodel) and I'm well aware of it, Cabergoline (Dostinex) is more efficient though at a smaller dose. 

The prolactin induced from progesterone is present in both Deca and Trenbolone. 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't be using Arimidex during a Tren cycle that you are also using Test with.



DIV
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Blake on December 22, 2005, 12:14:42 PM
It's called Bromocriptine (Parlodel) and I'm well aware of it, Cabergoline (Dostinex) is more efficient though at a smaller dose. 

The prolactin induced from progesterone is present in both Deca and Trenbolone. 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't be using Arimidex during a Tren cycle that you are also using Test with.



DIV

Agree w/ this as well!
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: IFBBwannaB on December 22, 2005, 02:57:49 PM
Yes Arimidex is to fight the Test bloat but Deca will stay there.
Further more high levels of prolactin is really something I would avoid.Im having hard time to find some studys that showed how nasty that can be.

Bottom line is this:Why add Deca when you can use other AAS that wil have similar effects BUT acts similary and you fight thier side effects on the same axis thus making it easier to control,more predictable,less drugs in your body,less mechanisems in the body to screw up with.


Title: Re: New To it
Post by: DIVISION on December 22, 2005, 03:59:40 PM
Bottom line is this:Why add Deca when you can use other AAS that wil have similar effects BUT acts similary and you fight thier side effects on the same axis thus making it easier to control,more predictable,less drugs in your body,less mechanisems in the body to screw up with.

I think Deca is very predictable, based on personal experience.

I take .5MG Cabergoline e4d (twice weekly) and that will supress prolactin.

I taper off Deca 4 weeks out and sub something else to make sure all circulating residue is cleaned out (as much as possible).

What's hard to control?

This is not an exact science, all we can do is work with what he have based on the knowledge that's been gathered. 





DIV
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: jdoug on December 22, 2005, 05:27:55 PM
ok switching deca to eq for my next cycle :-\
Title: Re: New To it
Post by: Arnold jr on December 22, 2005, 08:40:44 PM
GOD! Arimidex wont help againt Deca bloat.
Go read some.


Wrong.

From personal experience, deca without arimidex= bloat, deca with arimidex= no bloat... explain that.

By the way, your cocaine comment, come on bro, your getting a bit ridiculous with that one.

Last thing, deca is very predictable.  Arnold jr's prediction: it works great.