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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Nails on April 26, 2013, 01:26:36 PM
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Was it a pupil-mentor relationship?
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Before Dorian Yates started seriously working out back in 1983 he researched different methods of training and was drawn toward the Heavy Duty philosophy espoused by Mike Mentzer. Heavy Duty calls for minimal sets and workouts to be done with maximum intensity. At that time most top pros worked out six times a week, sometimes twice a day, doing maybe 20 sets for major bodyparts. Yates started out only training four times a week, doing three exercises of three sets on major bodyparts. Over the years he reduced it to two main sets and after the 1992 Olympia only did one main set per exercise. In all his articles he would give Mentzer credit for establishing his core training beliefs.
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In 1991 the duo met at Gold’s Gym, Venice, after Mike had been detained in hospital for some time, due to the mental gremlins that plagued him all his short life. (He died on June 9, 2001 at age 49.) He launched a personal training business out of Gold’s and with Yates emerging as a future Mr. Olympia his Heavy Duty system could not have received greater validation. The savvy Mike hitched his beliefs to Yates’ bandwagon and in truth gave the impression that he was more crucial to the Brit’s ongoing progress than he was. In a way Mike’s claims detracted from the fact that Yates success was down to his own individual effort and he was once asked why he gave Mike such free rein. He answered, “Mike’s a good guy who’s been through a lot. If it helps him I don’t mind.”
Against that scenario many came to believe that their relationship was of the mentor-pupil variety. But it was never that. Dorian planned all his routines and diets himself. He discussed aspects of training, with Mike and would use him as a sounding board but not as an advisor who directed his progress. For instance, when (after the 1992 Olympia) Dorian decided to drop from two main sets an exercise to one he ran it by Mike for his thoughts. Mike agreed, but if he hadn’t Dorian would have still dropped to one main set an exercise.
MIKE & DORIAN ARGUE
The low number of sets that marked Dorian’s workouts astounds many. On the other hand, Mike always tried to persuade Dorian to do even less: one exercise for each bodypart. Dorian resisted that advice and would do two exercises for small bodyparts and as much as six for larger ones. On a couple of trips to Gold’s, Venice, Dorian had some workouts with Mike’s involvement. In January 1993, they trained about three times and I witnessed a couple of those workouts. It was basically Mike putting Dorian through forced and negative reps and trying to persuade Dorian to do even less -- in terms of exercises -- than he did. For example during one of those workouts Mike tried to convince Dorian that he needed only one exercise, front pulldowns, for the whole back area. Dorian didn’t buy it and they went back and forth. It was pretty cool hearing Yates and Mentzer discussing/arguing training philosophies?
As far as Yates was concerned the back was made up of a series of inter-connected muscles, each area needing to be trained separately. His back routine comprised six exercises: Hammer machine pulldowns or Nautilus pullovers, Barbell rows, Hammer Strength one-arm rows, Cable rows, Hyperextensions, Deadlifts. So they would argue – Mike more animated than Dorian - but in the end it was all good-natured.
An hour after the 1993 Mr. Olympia I was sitting with Mike and Ray Mentzer and a few others in the contest hotel bar, when in walked Dorian and his then wife, Debbie, who we thought were at the banquet. Dorian, with some irritation, told us, there had been nowhere for them to sit. Mike, told the man who had that day just re-written the WTF physique book (in the process prompting Samir Bannout to state, Yates was first, second and third), “Well you know Dorian, nothing’s ever perfect.”
(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/images/stories/articles/dorianmike-2.jpg)
MIKE ON DORIAN
I conducted a lengthy interview with Mike Mentzer in 1994 and this is what he said about Dorian. "There has never been a bodybuilder who has reached, achieved, the absolute upper limits of his genetic potential. I didn't! In order to do so, you have to provide the body with the proper stimulus all the way through. I recently delivered a challenge to Dorian Yates. `Why don't you Dorian, now that you have this knowledge, be the one top bodybuilder to take an already heavily muscled physique and take it to the absolute stellar limits?' I believe Dorian Yates will prove to be the ultimate physique."
As regards the best bodybuilder ever he opined, “Sergio Oliva is the greatest bodybuilder in history: there is no one to date -- including Dorian -- who can hold a candle to him.”
He also told me something I have never revealed before. "Without a doubt I never reached my physical potential, but that gives me no cause for sadness. There's not a whole lot I look back on with any regret. If I made one mistake, in regard to training, it was that -- despite being the arch-advocate of lesser training I was still overtraining.”
He then paused and winked at me as he said, “I would do more in the gym than I said I did -- just for insurance."
DORIAN ON MIKE
Three days after Mike Mentzer died on June 9, 2001, his brother Ray, who was suffering serious kidney issues, passed away at age 47. This is how Dorian Yates remembered them
“When I became interested in bodybuilding in the early eighties, I devoured everything that I could find in print about the sport. During this time, I became aware of Mike and Ray Mentzer and was obviously impressed with the huge dense musculature that Mike and Ray displayed. More impressive than the physiques though was the radical and logical training approach that Mike was recommending through his regular articles. Mike was a great inspiration to me during my early training days. I was lucky enough to meet Mike and Ray during one of my early visits to California, and during this time, we developed a friendship and mutual respect. I had spoken with Mike shortly before his death, so I was deeply shocked to hear of his passing.... and then the tragic news of Ray's death. I will personally remember Mike and Ray as pioneers in the sport, strong proud men who stood up for what they believed in and didn't worry about going against the grain..... I WILL MISS THEM!
Peter will be back next week and every Wednesday with a new topic looking at the world of bodybuilding like only Peter McGough can do.
(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/images/stories/articles/mike-book.jpg)
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Thanks
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He then paused and winked at me as he said, “I would do more in the gym than I said I did -- just for insurance."
I remember hearing that a lot about Mentzer from people who watched him train.
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hit never works
NEVER
most stuped way to train
mike mentze = 2.5 grams of deca a week goo structure thick
yates = pointless existence should go fuck that shemale he is married to
NASSER LEVRONE HANEY SHIT ON YATES any day.
shit genetics
shit face
ffagggot
should die right now
skin head
piece of shit
homo
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Rampant intellectual genius and spelling proficency from the HIT haters. Awesome.
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hit never works
NEVER
most stuped way to train
mike mentze = 2.5 grams of deca a week goo structure thick
yates = pointless existence should go fuck that shemale he is married to
NASSER LEVRONE HANEY SHIT ON YATES any day.
shit genetics
shit face
ffagggot
should die right now
skin head
piece of shit
homo
You can't possibly really be this stupid. . . can you?
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Let me get this straight, one working set..yet all the rest are "warm up sets"?
That's like when you were a kid and playing kickball and saying "that didnt count, I was only 'practicing'."
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Let me get this straight, one working set..yet all the rest are "warm up sets"?
That's like when you were a kid and playing kickball and saying "that didnt count, I was only 'practicing'."
if you watch blood and guts, you'll see dorian did his first exercise for a bodypart somewhat normally. still fewer "ramp up" sets than conventional wisdom dictates, though. then, when he moved on to his second, third, etc. exercises, he did one "warm up" set just to get a feel for it, or just hit it right away with a heavy set.
basically, if a "normal" chest workout for a pro is:
bench press: 135 x 10, 225 x 10, 315 x 10, 405 x 10
incline press: 135 x 10, 225 x 10, 315 x 10
some other thing: ... x 10, ... x 10, ... x 10
yates would do something like:
bench press: 225 x 5-10, 315 x 5, 405 to failure
incline press: 315 to failure
some other thing: ... to failure
he basically skipped out on extra sets for subsequent exercises.
personally, i just stick with one exercise for the most part (say bench press), and do more "top sets" than just one. i think this is basically the same as what yates did, except he spread his top sets across different exercises. the main difference between yates' workouts and others i've seen is that he didnt spend as much time doing lighter "warmup" sets on secondary exercises. once he was warmed up once, he spread hes "work sets" across multiple exercises.
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if you watch blood and guts, you'll see dorian did his first exercise for a bodypart somewhat normally. still fewer "ramp up" sets than conventional wisdom dictates, though. then, when he moved on to his second, third, etc. exercises, he did one "warm up" set just to get a feel for it, or just hit it right away with a heavy set.
basically, if a "normal" chest workout for a pro is:
bench press: 135 x 10, 225 x 10, 315 x 10, 405 x 10
incline press: 135 x 10, 225 x 10, 315 x 10
some other thing: ... x 10, ... x 10, ... x 10
yates would do something like:
bench press: 225 x 5-10, 315 x 5, 405 to failure
incline press: 315 to failure
some other thing: ... to failure
he basically skipped out on extra sets for subsequent exercises.
personally, i just stick with one exercise for the most part (say bench press), and do more "top sets" than just one. i think this is basically the same as what yates did, except he spread his top sets across different exercises. the main difference between yates' workouts and others i've seen is that he didnt spend as much time doing lighter "warmup" sets on secondary exercises. once he was warmed up once, he spread hes "work sets" across multiple exercises.
sure that's his "secret"
training is irrelevan in 90% of the xases in the long term
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In a way Mike’s claims detracted from the fact that Yates success was down to his own individual effort and he was once asked why he gave Mike such free rein. He answered
“Mike’s a good guy who’s been through a lot. If it helps him I don’t mind.”
Class act ^
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Dorian still did alot less than his peers.4 days a week hour or so.focus all you have on maybe two sets an exercise.
blodd and guts shows the last sets are all out totally.
mike went off the deep end on several things but he helped with the idea that intensity matters and rest.
all this been said already tho...
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Alright we now know "Marine" is a joke, who knows zero about bodybuilding. I dare him to post his pics (best ever) next to Mike Mentzer for a virtual posedown... I need a good laugh ;D
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hit never works
NEVER
most stuped way to train
mike mentze = 2.5 grams of deca a week goo structure thick
yates = pointless existence should go fuck that shemale he is married to
NASSER LEVRONE HANEY SHIT ON YATES any day.
shit genetics
shit face
ffagggot
should die right now
skin head
piece of shit
homo
Hi Hulkster!
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Dorian Yates cock suckers
HE FUCKING SUCKS
ugly physique
drug dealer hormonized
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Alright we now know "Marine" is a joke, who knows zero about bodybuilding. I dare him to post his pics (best ever) next to Mike Mentzer for a virtual posedown... I need a good laugh ;D
FAFFAGOT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU AND ME IN A BODYBUILDING CONTEST WHERE I BLOW YOU AWAY AND WPE THE FLOOR WITH YOU JUST BECAUSE MY ABS ARE VISIBLE AND U ARE ONE DELUSIONAL FAT FUCK
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I'm fat, lol?!? You really are retarded.
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I'm sure Marine is a Pro bodybuilder
He's nothing but a bitter troll, simple is that
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He's nothing but a bitter troll, simple is that
i am bringing the apocalypses
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i am bringing the apocalypses
I gotta admit, as a troll you're not only bitter but also funny :D
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The advice of "One set less" may actually have been of great value if you look back at all of Dorian's injuries.
HIT is not bullshit. It's just not for everyone.
The other thing: when you get older and your joints hurt all the time, you will realize that lighter weights with higher reps just might have been more appropriate.
Kids ain't gonna listen. Yeah, you might gain a little more size with heavier weights and being juice up, but at what cost? Your future, right?
Don't care now, but you will then.
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Metzer said this...He then paused and winked at me as he said, “I would do more in the gym than I said I did -- just for insurance."
In essence admitting what was coming out of his mouth wasn't the same thing as what he was doing...
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While there may well be no one "best way" to train for everyone, there is certainly a best way for every individual to train. By that I mean find what works best for you. It may be HIT or Heavy Duty. For some it may be volume training. Mentzer was right in many ways but perhaps not in all ways. Personally I prefer his methods as I have a life outside the gym.
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Metzer said this...He then paused and winked at me as he said, “I would do more in the gym than I said I did -- just for insurance."
In essence admitting what was coming out of his mouth wasn't the same thing as what he was doing...
METNZER LOOKED THICK AS PHUCKING BRICK BUT HIS PROGRAM IS THE MOST RETARTED WAY TO TRAIN IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE
ALSO IT'S A WELL KNOWN FACT THAT MNTZER WAS TAKING 2.5 GRAMS OF DECA A WEEK
TELL ME MORE ABOUT THE LOW DOESES DURING THE 70S
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HIT is very effective. Problem is in Mentzer's last years and writings he tried to reduce the volume so low it wasn't applicable to any but the chronically overtrained. In "Wisdom of Mike Mentzer" he shares his most productive routine, very "Yates like."
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HIT is very effective. Problem is in Mentzer's last years and writings he tried to reduce the volume so low it wasn't applicable to any but the chronically overtrained. In "Wisdom of Mike Mentzer" he shares his most productive routine, very "Yates like."
what is this routine?
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8) 4ft tall why not kill yourself?
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METNZER LOOKED THICK AS PHUCKING BRICK BUT HIS PROGRAM IS THE MOST RETARTED WAY TO TRAIN IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE
ALSO IT'S A WELL KNOWN FACT THAT MNTZER WAS TAKING 2.5 GRAMS OF DECA A WEEK
TELL ME MORE ABOUT THE LOW DOESES DURING THE 70S
thats the secret 2.5 grams of deca you wont need whores saving more money for gh? but couldn't one achieve the same physique by becoming a pimp and not having to pay for the whores ?