Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: a_ahmed on June 17, 2013, 08:14:12 AM
-
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/992847_700435106649172_466969031_n.png)..
http://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/machines-qaddafi-washington.html
-
Why is Islam so anti-Semite?
-
Why is Islam so anti-Semite?
It's not because we are thought to protect the jews and christians, you're just ignorant and hate islam. The only time peace ever existed between the three faiths in the holy land was under muslim rule, not christian rule and definetely not secular jewish rule (zionists). That is why orthodox jews like these openly cite and support muslims and islam as the historical truth of the pats 100+ years that in fact Jews were protected under Muslims and lived peacefully unlike under zionist rule where they are oppressed too.
Zionists are the true anti-semites, they oppress orthodox jews, zionists and their founders were secularists and atheists who hate God and who hate the torah and who hate religion
Jesus (pbuh) certainly wouldn't support secularist atheistic nationalists who denounce and hate God and religion Loco.
-
-
STATEMENT TO THE
U.N. SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON PALESTINE
JULY 16, 1947
BY CHIEF RABBI YOSEF TZVI DUSHINSKY of Palestine
(http://www.nkusa.org/Historical_Documents/images/dushinsky.jpg)
Taken from the United Nations Trusteeship Library
1 The ancient right of the People of Israel to the land of Israel.
In approaching what is commonly called the Palestine problem and in trying to find a just and suitable solution it is imperative that the history of the Holy Land and its correlation with the Jewish people be viewed in their proper perspective.
Indeed from the day onwards on which the L-rd said to Abraham: "Arise, walk through the Land, in the length of it and in the breadth, for I will give it unto thee" (Genesis, 13, 17), this country was predestined to be the land of domicile for the People of Israel. However, this predestination, this divine promise, has its basis but in religion, for only loyalty to HIS laws and teachings and fundamental application of that Law in Israel's public and private life will entitle them to the name "People of Israel" and only then can the term "Land of Israel" apply to this land as it is aid: "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" (Exodus 19, 6) and further: "For thou art a holy people under the L-rd, thy G-d." (Deuteronomy 7, 6). The interrelation between the land of Israel and the people of Israel rise and falls with the degree and intensity with which they fulfill the Holy Law. Past experience proves that Israel fell easy prey to their enemies whenever they deviated from the path prescribed in the Holy Bible, a fact to which the chapters of the Bible bear eloquent evidence.
(http://www.nkusa.org/Historical_Documents/images/Rabbi%20Dushinski2.jpg)
2 Unbroken settlement by Jews throughout the ages.
Hence, even after the dispersion, when Israel were scattered to the four corners of the world to atone for their sins and prepare themselves for the great task of being a holy nation and of being fit once again to live in the land of their promise, Jews loyal to the tradition of their forefathers have not severed the connection with the land even for short intervals. Though unable to fulfill all the commandments while residing abroad, particularly those relating to the soil of this land, they have constantly directed and arranged their prayers with their faces towards the Holy Land in accordance with I King 8, 48: "And pray unto thee towards their land."
Some Jews endeavoured to visit the Holy Land at least once in their lives and at later periods, when transport and traffic connections became easier, these loyal Jews began to return to the Holy Land to live permanently therein in holiness and purity and literally applied the verse (Psalms 102, 14): "For thy servants take pleasure in her stones and favour the dust thereof."
The relation between the people of Israel and the land of Israel being an ancient and permanent religious tie, Providence has seen to it that throughout the long history of this land, Jews were never to abandon it entirely. . . .
3 Good neighbourly relations with other sections of the population.
During no period of the immigration of such orthodox European Jews was any opposition offered by the Arab population. On the contrary, these Jews were welcomed on account of economic benefits and general progress that accrued to the local inhabitants who had no fear whatsoever of being subjugated. It was common knowledge that these Jews came but for the purpose of fulfilling certain religious requirements and they had no difficulty in establishing a mutual trust, and real friendship developed with all sections of the community. That was the time when good neighborly relations existed between Jews and Arabs and in particular Rabbis and eminent scholars who then lead the Jewish Community were greatly esteemed and honoured by all inhabitants.
4 Palestine under the Mandate.
With the occupation of Palestine by His Britannic Majesty's Forces and after the confirmation of the Mandate over Palestine by the League of Nations, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration of 1917 a new era opened in the history of the Holy Land. We Orthodox Jews whose forefathers promoted the development of the Jewish Yishuv throughout the generations, who for many centuries constituted the most important element of the Yishuv in the Holy Land, were always on the very best of terms with all sections of the Community. We had hoped that the real purpose of the Mandate would be the promotion of a "Home" to which Jews who lived in the Diaspora might be able to return as their Home Land in order to live here in accordance with the Commandments of the Almighty. It was upon the first appearance of the Zionist organization as a political entity, created in and by the spirit of reform, a spirit to which Orthodox Jewry is so utterly opposed that the idea of the foundation of a Jewish state in the Holy Land was first advanced.
Much trouble and endless bloodshed might have been avoided if the Mandate were to have been applied in the manner hoped for by Orthodox Jewry.
In addition the various Jewish Communities in the country had been organized along traditional lines of truly Jewish Law, by actively applying the Laws of Moses to the public affairs of the Holy Land, we are convinced that the country would have remained at peace and the dangers inherent in prevailing conditions might never have arisen. Moreover, the colossal massacre of millions of our brethren at the hands of Nazism during the second World War might have been averted to a very substantial degree for many of them might have been able to live peacefully in the Holy Land as there would have been not the slightest justification for the limitations of Jewish immigration as have in fact been enforced during the last decade.
However, it is a regrettable fact that a serious blunder was committed at the time by recognising first the leaders of Zionism and then the Jewish Agency as official representation of the Jewish population and by handing the keys of immigration to that body which consists of zionists and non-zionists who are united in the opposition to the application of religion to public life and they have succeeded in bringing to this country free-thinking people like themselves who blocked the way of immigration to myriads of Orthodox Jews. Only after prolonged and forceful representations supported by the Government of Palestine did they agree to issue small numbers of certificates for immigration also to Orthodox Jews. They have thus succeeded in strengthening their position by bringing in elements of the population who were faithful to their aims and ideals and have founded Jewish Communities throughout the country whose very spirit is contrary to the requirements of Jewish Law and have thereby furthered their hold in the country, by insisting on the creation of a Jewish state therein. This aroused the fear of our Arab neighbors in connection with further Jewish immigration and thus started the determined opposition on the part of the Arabs against Jewish immigration.
5 Palestine as a State.
From the time of King Solomon to our very days the Holy Land was either united with Trans-Jordan or attached to Syria or Turkey. Western Palestine was never a single and independent entity and certainly a part of that cannot possibly constitute an independent state, as envisaged in the various plans that are discussed from time to time.
However, the basic reason for our opposition to an Independent Jewish state as that in prevailing circumstances the officially recognised representation of the Jewish people does not consider the authority of the Holy Law as binding in the public affairs of the Jewish people. . . .
. . . .and it is contrary to the wishes of G-d to create a Jewish State. . .
6 Summary of Part I
Orthodox Jewry has not the slightest intention of subjugating any section of the population of the Holy Land. We merely demand that the gates of Palestine be opened to all those Jews who have no home and enable them to live here Jewish lives in accordance with the commandments of the L-rd. However in order to avoid the continuation of the untenable position as set out in the last paragraph of section 4 we suggest that the keys of Jewish immigration be placed into the hands of the Government of this country.
We furthermore wish to express our definite opposition to a Jewish state in any part of Palestine.
-
The only time peace ever existed between the three faiths in the holy land was under muslim rule
LOL...how ironic. "Peace", under Muslim tyranny, where Christians and Jews were second-class citizens who were forced to pay Muslims a special tax. ::)
-
You think what the NSA did was bad, imagine life under sharia law. Not even the pretense of freedom we have in the us. Outright dictatorship.
-
You think what the NSA did was bad, imagine life under sharia law. Not even the pretense of freedom we have in the us. Outright dictatorship.
Apparently the Jews of Spain dubbed the rule of muslims under shariah law as the golden age of judaism. Jews strived and many jewish historians who do not have their ego to scrub cite that without Muslims Jews would have perished as mere writings in the books of ancient history.
Trying to taint and lie about Islam to make the western way look better is a hilarious tactic.
The western armies are the ones waging bloodshed, wars and violence over the world.
Muslims are terrorists whenever they defend themselves, but American bombs are democracy.
You are so blinded by what your country is doing even if it's against you. You are blinded by the hatred that has been instilled of you over Islam and muslims.
In Islam spying on people individually is disallowed. So yes, one more thing that the west opposes Islam for. The west has embraced intrusion of privacy, spying and whatever else you want to call it. Your so called 'freedoms' are a delusion.
-
Trying to taint and lie about Islam to make the western way look better is a hilarious tactic.
It is Muslims who lie and taint Islam. And Islamic nations are 100-1,000 years behind Western nations.
-
It is Muslims who lie and taint Islam.
So far you've been lying while on a hate campaign of Islam.
Jews thrived under Muslim rule and survived thanks to Muslims not Christians. Historical facts you don't want to embrace.
Not only that, Christians persecuted even Christians in the holy land when they invaded causing mass bloodshed of not just Jews and Muslims but Christian Arabs. Why? Because they COEXISTED PEACEFULLY with one another and were deemed heretics for this.
And Islamic nations are 100-1,000 years behind Western nations.
If one looks at history, one can see progress in the Muslim world always slowed down when there was war. Whether it was crusades, colonialism or recent American/Israeli/Western imperialism. It's hard to progress when your houses and streets are bombed non-stop.
Otherwise the islamic civilization brought far more progress to the world than the west ever did and for a far longer period of time. The western modern empire now only about 300 years of m
-
It is Muslims who lie and taint Islam. And Islamic nations are 100-1,000 years behind Western nations.
So far you've been lying while on a hate campaign of Islam.
Jews thrived under Muslim rule and survived thanks to Muslims not Christians. Historical facts you don't want to embrace.
Not only that, Christians persecuted even Christians in the holy land when they invaded causing mass bloodshed of not just Jews and Muslims but Christian Arabs. Why? Because they COEXISTED PEACEFULLY with one another and were deemed heretics for this.
LOL...Thanks for confirming my post by justifying today's Muslim atrocities by comparing them to Christians 1,000 years ago. ;D
-
So far you've been lying while on a hate campaign of Islam.
Jews thrived under Muslim rule and survived thanks to Muslims not Christians. Historical facts you don't want to embrace.
Not only that, Christians persecuted even Christians in the holy land when they invaded causing mass bloodshed of not just Jews and Muslims but Christian Arabs. Why? Because they COEXISTED PEACEFULLY with one another and were deemed heretics for this.
LOL...Thanks for confirming my post by justifying today's Muslim atrocities by comparing them to Christians 1,000 years ago. ;D
I'm sorry but I am not comparing Muslims to Christians at all. Muslims are defending themselves in their own lands while Crusaders came to invade lands no different than the british/french colonialists nor any different to modern day western imperialism.
If anything what I'm confirming is the comparison between the crusades and modern day western imperialism.
Just like the pope of past crusades spread lies and tales about evil Mozzlems, today the same is being done by western governments and certain christian denominations such as yourself. And like the crusades all out merciless bloodhsed is used while lies are used to cover up the truths of these wars. Muslims are labeled as violent and violence loving, while in fact it was western armies that are violent and violence loving, spreading actual violence.
Greed, treachery, lies the same as the crusades, the same as modern day western imperialism of the west.
Deception is not only applied against Islam and Muslims, but all people. As in the case of the NSA/US/Israel spying on the world. Out of fear, out of desperation, out of deceit and treachery.
-
Muslims are defending themselves in their own lands while Crusaders came to invade lands no different than the british/french colonialists nor any different to modern day western imperialism.
He was defending himself. ::)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=454146.0;attach=519969;image)
-
And Muslims raped, pillaged and enslaved whole populations. When will they answer for their crimes? By your logic it is acceptable to defend yourself if you are under threat. Do you think it is right if a man in England kills or deports a Muslim who wants to assert sharia law? The Englishman would be defending his culture and values.
-
And Muslims raped, pillaged and enslaved whole populations. When will they answer for their crimes? By your logic it is acceptable to defend yourself if you are under threat. Do you think it is right if a man in England kills or deports a Muslim who wants to assert sharia law? The Englishman would be defending his culture and values.
Blatant lies.
-
Blatant lies.
Sure it is. It's easier to deny it than accept responsibility. Does the Englishman have the right to eradicate a Muslim who is threatening his culture? He would defending himself according to your logic
-
Israel your friend:
(http://mycatbirdseat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/uss_liberty2.jpg)
(http://mycatbirdseat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/libertytailgate.jpg)
(http://www.sons-of-liberty.org/uss_liberty/USS_Liberty_Hour.jpg)
-
Does he have the right?
-
In Islam spying on people individually is disallowed. So yes, one more thing that the west opposes Islam for. The west has embraced intrusion of privacy, spying and whatever else you want to call it. Your so called 'freedoms' are a delusion.
Is there a contemporary state where Muslims rule that you can point to as an example for how government ought to be run? Where and how should this do you think this model should be implemented? What if the locals have no interest in its implementation?
Remember, I'm asking for a realistic, contemporary example, not a fantasy derived from rosy interpretations of medieval times.
-
Apparently the Jews of Spain dubbed the rule of muslims under shariah law as the golden age of judaism.
Muslims in Al Andalus DID NOT consider Jews and Christians equals. In fact, Jews and Christians were considered second class citizens and were relegated to the fringes of that society.
Kinda like South African blacks during apartheid.
The only reason they were not done away with (which is what the Christians did to the Jews and the Muslims once they got the power back) was because they were Abd al-Rahman's allies, and his enemies were OTHER Muslims.
Key word here is tolerated.
And the downfall of Al Andalus, which was an advanced civilization for its time, I'll concede to that, was precisely the introduction of stricter versions of Islam in every facet of life.
Islam, as with all other religions, is crap. If you want to kill yourselves do us all a favor and find another reason.
-
Is there a contemporary state where Muslims rule that you can point to as an example for how government ought to be run? Where and how should this do you think this model should be implemented? What if the locals have no interest in its implementation?
Remember, I'm asking for a realistic, contemporary example, not a fantasy derived from rosy interpretations of medieval times.
ROTFLOL!!!
Is there a contemporary state where Christians, or Jews, or Buddhists, or Hindus, or Pagans, rule that YOU can point to as an example of how government ought to be run?
-
Muslims are a scourge. They stopped developing around the mid 1500's and continue to live like animals. Their countries are all 3rd world shitholes....any advancement has been made at the hands of BP and Texaco. Oil is the only saving grace, when it runs out they'll go back to farming dirt. Please kill yourselves now and allow the West to get on with trying to make the world a better place to live
-
Yeah the west is doing a great job of making the world a better place, causing millions of deaths in the middle-east and elsewhere, waging constant warfare, 17 trillion dollars in debt, end of freedom, end of privacy, poverty, unemployment, lies, decline in moral standards, corruption, greed, deception, the list goes on.
Great progress dat der.
Why is the middle-east and africa backwards? Try colonialism and imperialism of the last 300 years. It's hard to progress when you are bombed constantly, invaded and attacked constantly.
If Arabs closed oil taps, your whole economy and system would instantly crash to oblivion. You'd be screwed beyond screwed. You're already screwed as it is with 17 trillion dollars of debt.
All you know is how to wage war, lie and deceive.
You depend on that oil, that's one of the reasons you progressed. Just as the renaissance was the reason you intellectually progressed. You don't give credit where it's due, instead you try to boast of yourself and slander the hand that fed you without which you would be in fact in decline.
No oil, no energy, your system is screwed. That's why you've been messing with the middle-east for the past 100+ years. You need it and don't want the people to live freely in the middle-east, instead you imposed dictatorships that do your bidding. Now you're supporting instability to not allow the people to rule themselves either.
You don't want Islam to be glorious again, so you sow enmity and problems in the middle-east.
The French and British made a pact since the crusades to not allow progress in the Muslim world. They've done that and the US is doing that now. Why? Because Muslims outnumber the west in everything, wealth, resources, population, armed numbers, everything, hence divide and conquer was applied otherwise the west is nothing.
-
Muslims are a scourge. They stopped developing around the mid 1500's and continue to live like animals. Their countries are all 3rd world shitholes....any advancement has been made at the hands of BP and Texaco. Oil is the only saving grace, when it runs out they'll go back to farming dirt. Please kill yourselves now and allow the West to get on with trying to make the world a better place to live
You might to divest yourself from this illusion sooner, rather than later.
Nothing hidden stays concealed forever, ...and when the truth is eventually revealed to you,
and reality sets in, ...the overwhelming sense of betrayal you will feel might be more than you can handle.
Wasn't Boston a big enough wake up call? Why not just be grateful to be alive, well, and home with your family?
Lord knows a lot of the "expendable meat shields" didn't make it back, ...intact or otherwise.
-
ROTFLOL!!!
Is there a contemporary state where Christians, or Jews, or Buddhists, or Hindus, or Pagans, rule that YOU can point to as an example of how government ought to be run?
1. How one says a state "ought" to be run will surely be a function of one's beliefs and interests, e.g., if I think adhering to Islamic principles of governance is desirable (installing Sharia law and the like), I will point to Afghanistan under the Taliban, or -- to a somewhat more limited extent -- Saudi Arabia as admirable models. As it happens, I don't think any state should be run on the basis of religious precepts, meaning ahmed and I are necessarily opposed.
2. To answer your question, spinning the globe at random reveals Christians doing a decent job of governance in Germany, Jews in Israel, and Buddhists in Japan -- all due to their more or less governing on the basis of secular principles, independent of whatever metaphysical hogwash they consider sacrosanct. All models on offer have significant room for improvement, though it seems to me that the models closest to well-being maximization we can ever hope to instantiate will be mere iterations of those currently on offer.
I'm extremely confident that all such models -- actual and hypothetical -- are superior to taking Islam seriously, and extremely confident that if you ever came out to this part of the world and saw Islam in action, you would be inclined to agree. Can we at least meet half way here and agree that the following properties of government would, in all likelihood, not maximize human well-being: virulent homophobia, giving women's testimony half the value in court, forcibly suppressing half the population's (women) career prospects and thus half a state's economic potential, banning alcohol (for shame!), banning eating in public during certain weeks due to ancient superstition, and legalizing wife beating?
-
A. Ahmed, I respect Islam, but you are kind of a tool. You need to be more intellectually honest about the shortcomings of Islam as it is practiced by far too many. Being critical from the inside out is the best way to move the faith forward. Islam as it is meant to be practiced is a beautiful faith.
Now, with that disclaimer aside. I despise Israel and what it has become. Jews are great people and need to be judged on individual merit. But the state of Israel has become a genital wart on the penile shaft of all humanity.
I am Pro-Palestine, Pro-Hezbollah and Pro-Hamas. I don't and can never condone suicide bombings that take the lives of civillian. Soldiers and government officials are fair game.
-
I am just saying things as they are.
It's not Muslims who are invading America and killing millions.
The west is not bringing anything useful to the world as things stand. Bragging about material inventions, so what? Give credit to Muslims who ought to be given credit as well? I find it funny when some twerp says why are you using "american technology" such as a computer (lmao) when the fool doesn't realize there would be no computer without things like algebra, mathematics, arabic numerals, etc...
Blind hate.
I all the time point out what Islam teaches/says and then fellas on here talk about "OH NO its izlamz". For example if some village idiot rapes or kills a woman, just because, a swarm of morons on here will start attacking islam, I point out this has nothing to do with islam but then I am labelled a 'liar'.
So I do try to point out what Islam actually teaches but it falls on deaf ears.
Likewise with the blind hate filled accusations of Muslims being obsessed with violence/loving violence, when in fact the opposite is true.
We've been through this vicious cycle countless times. A swarm of flies coming in starts copy pasting verses from the qur'an out of context from islamophobe websites and so on.
Shortcomings of Islam? No, shortcomings of Muslims who do not follow Islam. If you want to know Islam look at Islam not Muslims. There are Muslims who sleep around, cheat, drink, club, rape, etc... but these things are not islam, so its not the shortcomings of Islam but rather the shortcomings of Muslims who do not follow the teaches of islam.
-
1. How one says a state "ought" to be run will surely be a function of one's beliefs and interests, e.g., if I think adhering to Islamic principles of governance is desirable (installing Sharia law and the like), I will point to Afghanistan under the Taliban, or -- to a somewhat more limited extent -- Saudi Arabia as admirable models. As it happens, I don't think any state should be run on the basis of religious precepts, meaning ahmed and I are necessarily opposed.
Then you would be woefully disappointed. I make no claims to have a full understanding of Islam, or Sharia law, ...but I at least know enough to know that the perversions practiced by the Taliban have nothing to do with Islam or Sharia law.
2. To answer your question, spinning the globe at random reveals Christians doing a decent job of governance in Germany, Jews in Israel, and Buddhists in Japan -- all due to their more or less governing on the basis of secular principles, independent of whatever metaphysical hogwash they consider sacrosanct. All models on offer have significant room for improvement, though it seems to me that the models closest to well-being maximization we can ever hope to instantiate will be mere iterations of those currently on offer.
Christians doing a decent job in Germany? When it's against the law to voice certain opinions, ...and where the head of state risks the financial well being of her citizens in order to win an election? Jews in Israel? The Jews aren't in charge of Israel, ...atheist Zionists are, ...and they are endangering the lives of Jews, and destabilizing peace, not only within Israel, but throughout the ME, and the world due to their policies of ethnic genocide, apartheid, and brutal repression of Jews, Muslims, and Christians a like, ...not to mention their routine hubris and disregard for human rights and international law. As for Buddhists in Japan? Puleaze! The only one with a printing press faster than Bernanke's is Shinzo Abe, ...the man Bernanke is trying to keep up with in running his respective country into the ground.
I'm extremely confident that all such models -- actual and hypothetical -- are superior to taking Islam seriously, and extremely confident that if you ever came out to this part of the world and saw Islam in action, you would be inclined to agree. Can we at least meet half way here and agree that the following properties of government would, in all likelihood, not maximize human well-being: virulent homophobia, giving women's testimony half the value in court, forcibly suppressing half the population's (women) career prospects and thus half a state's economic potential, banning alcohol (for shame!), banning eating in public during certain weeks due to ancient superstition, and legalizing wife beating?
This thread is about Israel's involvement in the NSA spyring, ...not about Islam, Judaism, or any other religion.
Why is it that a nation so proud of their supposed separation of church & state, find themselves so incapable of separating church & state? Crime is crime regardless of the state that commits it, ...and regardless of whatever "religion" the criminals choose to hide behind.
-
I am just saying things as they are.
It's not Muslims who are invading America and killing millions.
The west is not bringing anything useful to the world as things stand. Bragging about material inventions, so what? Give credit to Muslims who ought to be given credit as well? I find it funny when some twerp says why are you using "american technology" such as a computer (lmao) when the fool doesn't realize there would be no computer without things like algebra, mathematics, arabic numerals, etc...
Blind hate.
I all the time point out what Islam teaches/says and then fellas on here talk about "OH NO its izlamz". For example if some village idiot rapes or kills a woman, just because, a swarm of morons on here will start attacking islam, I point out this has nothing to do with islam but then I am labelled a 'liar'.
So I do try to point out what Islam actually teaches but it falls on deaf ears.
Likewise with the blind hate filled accusations of Muslims being obsessed with violence/loving violence, when in fact the opposite is true.
We've been through this vicious cycle countless times. A swarm of flies coming in starts copy pasting verses from the qur'an out of context from islamophobe websites and so on.
Shortcomings of Islam? No, shortcomings of Muslims who do not follow Islam. If you want to know Islam look at Islam not Muslims. There are Muslims who sleep around, cheat, drink, club, rape, etc... but these things are not islam, so its not the shortcomings of Islam but rather the shortcomings of Muslims who do not follow the teaches of islam.
I find it ridiculous that you compare rape to drinking and clubbing. Honestly, I'm with you for the most part. I hate Fox News, Islamophobes, the right wing and the like. But I also hate how middle eastern culture often times conflates with real Islamic traditions. The fact that girls are having their genitals mutilated in the name of Islam, actually angers me to my core. This isn't done by Al Qaeda and the "bad" muslims. This is done by devout, God fearing believers who don't practice terrorism. Although, to me this is familial terrorism.
Back to my original point. Sleeping around probably isn't good, but it's a free will thing. Drinking in excess probably isn't good, but in moderation I just can't see the problem. Going to clubs to spend time with friends? Probably not going to lead to the demise of civilization.
-
Well bro we muslims have different standards, for us, fornication, rape, adultery, drinking, clubbing, one night stands is all the same. These things corrupt society as a whole.
You have free will to do what ever you want, but you will be held accountable by God on the day of judgment by whatever you do.
You can kill, steal, cheat and get away with it in this life but you won't get away with it in the next.
The fact that western society has declined on principles and morals does not mean we Muslims have to adopt to what the liberal west wants to propagate.
It's kind of how the west tries not to only impose dictatorships or so called democratic puppet regimes but wants to also impose its liberal values. It just won't fly. We have different values in that sense.
The fact of the matter is, these values are more akin to judaism and christianity that the pop culture of the west has abandoned. So in effect if Christians were God fearing and abiding by religion they would be in fact far closer to Muslims but that is not the case, pop culture and media has changed these standards.
Sleeping around, getting smashed, one night stands have become ritual fun, something to laugh about, joke about, as okay, etc... one step at a time.
Hence to us these things are unacceptable.
As far as things like forced marriages, abuse of women, etc.. these are things that are foreign to Islam but part of some of the backwards preislamic cultures.
For example 'honor killings' have nothing to do with islam and are practiced widely by african and arab christians, hindus, but media focuses on muslims who do it.
Just one example.
Also back to the free will thing, adults have free will to comit adultery, free will to cheat, free will to rob a bank? Where does this free will stop? It's not about 'free will' God gave us free will, that's what Islam teaches us, but also teaches us how to live this life, the actions to do or not to do and the consequences of those actions for a better society or worse off society.
-
Not drinking, not fornicating not acting like a fool on a dance floor, not dressing provocatively all of those things are fine and they have my utmost respect. But any book or belief system that tells me lying, cheating and stealing are in any way comparable to physical abuse, rape and murder is just completely devoid of common sense. I am not just talking about Islam, but the ten commandments as well.
For someone knocking the "liberal west" you sure like to throw out a lot of liberal bullshit. I am a card carrying liberal for the record and when you and liberals try to say Christian and Hindu zealots are just as bad as Muslim zealots all I can do is call bullshit.
So with that, to most of your points all I can say is bullshit.
Most of us don't need religion to tell us what's right or wrong or what harms society .
-
They are not the same, but they are all classed as sins, corruption and criminal acts under Islam. You are missing the point.
As far as you thinking you don't need God or whoever to tell you what's right and wrong. Maybe, some people naturally are inclined to know these things, but some aren't. If mankind is let to decide what's right and wrong the whole world will be misguided and that indeed is the case. Everyone argues of what's right and wrong and ultimately the world is in chaos. Exactly the point, in the west people argue for these things as normal or acceptable.
We can agree to disagree, the reason you may have problems with accepting these things because you are yourself having perhaps relationships out of wedlock or enjoy drinking but if you see the harms it brings to society you would understand Islam's point of view. Islam is not about implementing patch fixes, its about stopping problems at the root cause before they happen.
-
They are not the same, but they are all classed as sins, corruption and criminal acts under Islam. You are missing the point.
As far as you thinking you don't need God or whoever to tell you what's right and wrong. Maybe, some people naturally are inclined to know these things, but some aren't. If mankind is let to decide what's right and wrong the whole world will be misguided and that indeed is the case. Everyone argues of what's right and wrong and ultimately the world is in chaos. Exactly the point, in the west people argue for these things as normal or acceptable.
We can agree to disagree, the reason you may have problems with accepting these things because you are yourself having perhaps relationships out of wedlock or enjoy drinking but if you see the harms it brings to society you would understand Islam's point of view. Islam is not about implementing patch fixes, its about stopping problems at the root cause before they happen.
I think I agree with many of the same things. I don't think infidelity (which I don't partake in) is a good thing. I don't think in any reasonable way, shape or form should it be punishable by death.
I think drinking in excess is harmful and 99.9% of the time, no good can come of it. A drink with your dinner or at a ball game or on a hot sunny day poolside? Common sense tells me thats ok. For the record I don't drink. Not even occasionally. In fact, my lips haven't so much as touched alcohol since 2005.
Guess what else, I don't eat pork. Haven't for about 15 years. Was never big on it to begin with, but it was Islam that led me to abstain from it and since then, it's become more a health choice rather than religious. But, if someone enjoys a slab of bbq ribs from time to time, I don't feel they are damned to hell.
If a woman chooses to cover herself modestly, that great. As long as it is her choice. However, she shouldn't be forced to do so. In fact, compulsion in religion is against the Quran. I think its weak for Muslim men to need women covered from head to toe to avoid impure thoughts and the like. Have some self control and take responsibility for your own self. Would I ever want my wife, daughter, sister or mother wearing thongs and provocative clothing in public? No, of course not. But if my sisters feet, calves, knees, wrists, elbows or neck drive you or anyone else to impure thoughts or actions, then my friend, you have real problems.
-
The thing is you are placing yourself as the judge as to what limits to set or not to set. You can delude yourself how far you go and deceive yourself by that standard as society has already done to itself. How do you know some guy doesn't get turned on buy x example of whatever part of a woman being exposed? What may not affect you may affect another guy. Saying 'he has a problem' because he gets turned on by a woman is not solving problems nor will it solve problems but just deny the problem society has not 'the guy'.
In India it's been long culturally accepted that women show their bellies, but in America for the longest time it was viewed as highly disrespectful and slutty. Yet rape is rampant in India. Oh and rape is VERY rampant in America but it's not spoken about 247 in the news. Abuse of women is high in America.
So I commend you on all you've said, its really good all you've said, but God knows whats better for you as God created you, and understands human desires better than humans know themselves. You can act on your 'free' will' as you wish, you can act upon your intellect or upon your desires, this is your choice ultimately and everyone else's, but there are consequences.
Men are not the same as women. A muscular guy can strut his stuff on a street and most women will yawn, but put an even ugly but overdressed women on the street with desperately horny guys on the street and they will be howling like dogs. Non-muslims know this, muslims just don't deny that they don't know it.
Point is when you are the one setting these standards how low do you go? A skirt at the knee level was slutty in America 50 some years ago. Have you checked outside how girls dress in summer? What skirt? It's practically underwear length 'skirt' or shorts or whatever the hell it is anymore. It's not even a micro-skirt, micro-skirts were once scandalous but now pretty much an office normal. You get the point I hope.
Islam is a religion of principle and it neither sways in the wind because people's desires sway anyway the wind blows nor does it go to 'fix and patch' problems but stops problems from happening in the first place at the root cause.
Back on topic.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/22/israel-and-the-nsa-scandal/
Israel your friend.
-
LOL...how ironic. "Peace", under Muslim tyranny, where Christians and Jews were second-class citizens who were forced to pay Muslims a special tax. ::)
"PEACE" process in Syria at the moment , West is arming pro-western heretic Arabs & Ahmed side
will be fucked again ;D ;D ;D ;
-
It is Muslims who lie and taint Islam. And Islamic nations are 100-1,000 years behind Western nations.
Even good old European Neanderthal was more advanced that Ahmed's mob.
What kind of moron believe if he blow up himself ::) that Allah will reward him with 200 virgins :P
-
Otherwise the islamic civilization brought far more progress to the world than the west ever did and for a far longer period of time. The western modern empire now only about 300 years of m
[/quote]
Ahmed, you belong to straight jacked, any shrinks here to help him :-\
-
As far as things like forced marriages, abuse of women, etc.. these are things that are foreign to Islam but part of some of the backwards preislamic cultures.
[/quote]
Ahmed, Taliban will castrate & sodomize you for this ;D ;D ;D
-
The thing is you are placing yourself as the judge as to what limits to set or not to set. You can delude yourself how far you go and deceive yourself by that standard as society has already done to itself. How do you know some guy doesn't get turned on buy x example of whatever part of a woman being exposed? What may not affect you may affect another guy. Saying 'he has a problem' because he gets turned on by a woman is not solving problems nor will it solve problems but just deny the problem society has not 'the guy'.
In India it's been long culturally accepted that women show their bellies, but in America for the longest time it was viewed as highly disrespectful and slutty. Yet rape is rampant in India. Oh and rape is VERY rampant in America but it's not spoken about 247 in the news. Abuse of women is high in America.
So I commend you on all you've said, its really good all you've said, but God knows whats better for you as God created you, and understands human desires better than humans know themselves. You can act on your 'free' will' as you wish, you can act upon your intellect or upon your desires, this is your choice ultimately and everyone else's, but there are consequences.
Men are not the same as women. A muscular guy can strut his stuff on a street and most women will yawn, but put an even ugly but overdressed women on the street with desperately horny guys on the street and they will be howling like dogs. Non-muslims know this, muslims just don't deny that they don't know it.
Point is when you are the one setting these standards how low do you go? A skirt at the knee level was slutty in America 50 some years ago. Have you checked outside how girls dress in summer? What skirt? It's practically underwear length 'skirt' or shorts or whatever the hell it is anymore. It's not even a micro-skirt, micro-skirts were once scandalous but now pretty much an office normal. You get the point I hope.
Islam is a religion of principle and it neither sways in the wind because people's desires sway anyway the wind blows nor does it go to 'fix and patch' problems but stops problems from happening in the first place at the root cause.
Back on topic.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/22/israel-and-the-nsa-scandal/
Israel your friend.
On point, Israel is NOT my friend.
Off point. This is extreme and even ridiculous, but in theory, women should be able to walk down the street butt naked in Pakistan. Human nature would dictate that the penis may become erect. That's fine, normal, acceptable or whatever. It is at the point of erection where ones religious values or moral values need to intervene and not act.
Self control and personal responsibility.
I agree with you, rape is everywhere. America, Africa, India, the arab world, you name it. India's nasty little secret has finally been exposed. Rape is just as high, if not higher in Pakistan and other Muslim countries who practice and enforce strict modesty. So your point seems moot as regards to dress code as it pertains to rape. I don't give a flying fuck who wears what. There is never any justification for rape. No one asks for it.
I just wish you'd be less defensive about your Muslim brothers and call a spade a spade.
-
Apparently the Jews of Spain dubbed the rule of muslims under shariah law as the golden age of judaism. Jews strived and many jewish historians who do not have their ego to scrub cite that without Muslims Jews would have perished as mere writings in the books of ancient history.
Even if true, so what?
Trying to taint and lie about Islam to make the western way look better is a hilarious tactic.
One doesn't need to lie about Islam. Its own followers paint it in a light much worse than any lie could. One only needs to point to the murderer of Theo Van Gogh (http://www.salon.com/2004/11/24/vangogh_2/); to the mindless thugs frothing at the mouth, demanding the head of a cartoonist on a pike (http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/02/17/pakistani-cleric-issues-fatwa-over-cartoons); to the Father who killed his own daughter in some sick notion of honor (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224878/Muslim-father-ran-daughter-westernised-US.html).
The western armies are the ones waging bloodshed, wars and violence over the world.
Even if that's true, does that excuse the Muslims who strap on a suicide vest and blow themselves up? Or is that western propaganda too?
Muslims are terrorists whenever they defend themselves, but American bombs are democracy.
The attacks of 9/11 weren't defensive.
You are so blinded by what your country is doing even if it's against you. You are blinded by the hatred that has been instilled of you over Islam and muslims.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. He may be blinded, but so are you - you're blinded by your religion; you justify everything that's done in its name and make up excuses for why those acts are justified.
In Islam spying on people individually is disallowed.
Where is that, specifically, in the Qur'an. And what does "individually" mean? Is it OK to spy on them collectively?
So yes, one more thing that the west opposes Islam for. The west has embraced intrusion of privacy, spying and whatever else you want to call it. Your so called 'freedoms' are a delusion.
They may very well be. At least in Islam there are no delusions when it comes to freedom. Nobody is free.
-
Even good old European Neanderthal was more advanced that Ahmed's mob.
What kind of moron believe if he blow up himself ::) that Allah will reward him with 200 virgins :P
72 currently, so many blew themselves up that Allah couldn't keep up and had to downsize from 200..
-
the perversions practiced by the Taliban have nothing to do with Islam or Sharia law.
The problem is that that specific set of 'perversions,' wherever it occurs, is coextensive with a large Muslim population. Are we to believe that 25% of Muslims supporting suicide attacks against civilians in at least some circumstances, 73% thinking religious authorities should arbitrate all domestic affairs, 28% thinking that apostates should be executed, 90% thinking that homosexuality is morally wrong, and 85% thinking that wives should always obey their husbands independent of context has nothing to do with the precepts of Islam as layed down in the Koran and Hadith? That would be quite the cosmic coincidence, seeing as it ranges across the whole globe (and thus can't be chalked up solely to regressive Middle Eastern cultures).
(http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf)
Let's see if you can explain that particular set of regressive attitudes in a way that does not involve Islam at all; there are many more in reserve that need explaining should you succeed.
Christians doing a decent job in Germany? When it's against the law to voice certain opinions, ...and where the head of state risks the financial well being of her citizens in order to win an election? Jews in Israel? The Jews aren't in charge of Israel, ...atheist Zionists are, ...and they are endangering the lives of Jews, and destabilizing peace, not only within Israel, but throughout the ME, and the world due to their policies of ethnic genocide, apartheid, and brutal repression of Jews, Muslims, and Christians a like, ...not to mention their routine hubris and disregard for human rights and international law. As for Buddhists in Japan? Puleaze! The only one with a printing press faster than Bernanke's is Shinzo Abe, ...the man Bernanke is trying to keep up with in running his respective country into the ground.
Pointing out flaws in the models I endorsed isn't equivalent to saying that they are failures; I explicitly said that they all have significant room for improvement. The fundamental point is that each is a superior mode of being to anything ahmed would have us usher in.
This thread is about Israel's involvement in the NSA spyring, ...not about Islam, Judaism, or any other religion.
I didn't bring up Islam; I was responding to someone who did, questioning their presuppositions.
-
72 currently, so many blew themselves up that Allah couldn't keep up and had to downsize from 200..
Well, you know... in these tough economic times, the Federal Open Virgins Committee had to adjust the rates a wee bit.
-
72 currently, so many blew themselves up that Allah couldn't keep up and had to downsize from 200..
Sad newz for Ahmedists, really sad :'( :'( but women still can be virgin at 85 ;D ;D
or pussy could be restitch & be "virgin" again ;D ;D
Where in that Koran is mentioned #.72 & way this specific #. :P :P