Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: anabolichalo on July 19, 2013, 02:29:43 PM
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theoretically
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i too am interested in the difference
E
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Could mean your genetic predisposition of developing a nice pair of bitch tits or not.....
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If you are talking 500 per week then little difference. If you mean 500 2x a week you will see some differences. I just went from my usually 250 2x a week HRT does to 600 2x a week. I could tell a difference definitely.
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If you are talking 500 per week then little difference. If you mean 500 2x a week you will see some differences. I just went from my usually 250 2x a week HRT does to 600 2x a week. I could tell a difference definitely.
Difference in what, I've never gone above 500mg a week - that's assuming it wasn't bunk, was my first dabble ;D
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The difference may be minor in the short-term, but significant in the long-term.
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200mgs more of significance.
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You guys need to check the ester weight first to see the real difference. I used to know but forgot.
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Keep test at 250 and add some winny, var, deca, tren, anything but not more test. IMO of course
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anything less than a gram and your just pussyfooting around. PCT is not needed either if you decide to come off it just hinders your bodies natural level from coming back sooner.
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yeah this is ok i think.
while this:
i agree on pct.
but how do you control water on more than a gramm?
and uhm, health con cocerns?what puropse to run such doses for long time?
ok your name says powerlifter, so i assume youre just a fatso who wants be "strong", theres no arguing with those
As one that holds water w/ test. Ive found that using arimidex on cycle keeps the bloat in check. Running arim isn't for everyone but it has really worked for me.
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yeah this is ok i think.
while this:
i agree on pct.
but how do you control water on more than a gramm?
and uhm, health con cocerns?what puropse to run such doses for long time?
ok your name says powerlifter, so i assume youre just a fatso who wants be "strong", theres no arguing with those
you can control it with diet a bit, everyone holds diff amount of water too. a gram long term for 10 years most doctors will tell you it will have minimal long term sides considering you keep a good diet while on low salt low caffeine and keep your blood pressure controlled with medicine. 10 years plus @ a gram and long term sides will come into play more. that is assuming your using only testosterone.
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galeniko u recommend i stay on 300mg?
my new gear is 250/ml
so then i would reduce 50mg if i stay on 1ml?
i want to get real thick and powerful lookig
so natural black people will start doubting what is the deal with white genetic
(no racist)r (my sentiments truly indeed)
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well dude
if your of italian or german heritage then you got pretty good white genetics 8)
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you can control it with diet a bit, everyone holds diff amount of water too. a gram long term for 10 years most doctors will tell you it will have minimal long term sides considering you keep a good diet while on low salt low caffeine and keep your blood pressure controlled with medicine. 10 years plus @ a gram and long term sides will come into play more. that is assuming your using only testosterone.
x2
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theoretically
well... without doing an excel spreadsheet to figure out when the saturation point would happen with those doses (the point when you're putting in the same about that is falling off from half-lifes every week), you could just run 6 weeks of each dose and drop $30 and order a testosterone test online ($30 twice). and compare the results.... but that won't tell you anything you won't already know.
more is better.
300 is 60% of 500mg. that extra 40% is important.
like comparing 600mg to 1,000mg, or 1,200mg to 2,000mg.
so instead of getting 8 weeks out of your bottle, you're getting 5. if you pay 40 a bottle, it's like paying $8/wk vs $5/wk. you WOULD pay an extra $12/month for better gains, better training, better sex, and better confidence, RIGHT?
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yes when you come off , from 500, its plain and simple a crashing.
when you come off 250, its kinda smooth, look pretty mch same 2 months later.(feel much worse,but look is ok).
however theyre seems to be some weird benefit to high doses over extended times, later on when natural, or clean, itll be on clearly higher level than lifetime natural would have been possible.when im clean, i know thats whole different look than my true lifetime natural best, by footballfields,no less.
and later on most of those gains will be maintainable on a fraction of the gear, i mean much less than half.more than few ppl have reported or experienced this
yah, but from feeling itself, its quite the difference.
i remember a study, scientific and on people, where they measured "muscle" gains on various dodages, of that wasnt mpure muscle they didnt care about how much was water retention(but its excellent study to get idea what kind of water retention to expect), and 500 did quite literally grant double the gains that 250 would.
however,after that, they had to go to 1gramm weekly to double the gins again.
this is about consistent on real life experiences.
too bad they didnt do much more studies on humans, i could only find test and winstrol, haha btw theose winstrol studies had me decide to never even look at that stuf again ;D
What about adding primobolan 200 mg together with 250 Test E?
Better lean mass, less gyno...less aromatisation?
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DP pm'd me the following study
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Interesting. Is this based on weekly dosages?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11701431
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look, if someone wants to use gramm(s) year in year out, thats fine, but do not tell to ransdom kids that its safe, you clowns.
listen kids, 1 gramm weekly is far from safe, dont listen to any fatso who hasnt seen his abs in his life yet.
I seen my abs every day for a long time.
everything I say/recommend comes from personal experience. if I say the sides/risks from running 2g/wk or 3.5g/wk for a couple years are overblown(by guys who are only relaying what they read on the internet), it's because I did it.
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look, if someone wants to use gramm(s) year in year out, thats fine, but do not tell to ransdom kids that its safe, you clowns.
listen kids, 1 gramm weekly is far from safe, dont listen to any fatso who hasnt seen his abs in his life yet.
word. until he posts his pictures showing his monstrous physique, Im convinced he's the former gimmick aesthetics.
ESFITNESS CALLING YOU OUT BROTHER!
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word. until he posts his pictures showing his monstrous physique, Im convinced he's the former gimmick aesthetics.
ESFITNESS CALLING YOU OUT BROTHER!
calling me out? I was wondering what you meant by "fuck off aesthetics" in the other thread. now I see it was directed towards me.
not that I really give a fuck about who or what you think I am, but here's something to jerk off to. I realize it's a msg board, and you're a big tough guy, but you should think twice before you go around being disrespctfull.
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i will just stay oin 300 mg untill christmas and then re evaluate with you gurus
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Have u experienced any sides, e.g., gyno, etc.?
not really
i'm really paranoid that it may magnify my receding hairloss etc
but i take 2.5mg finasteride once daily
:-\
should i take every 12 hrs 1.25mg instead ?
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Based on your recent pics it looks like you've made some solid gains.
BTW, I've lost track - did u run an oral w/ this or just the T?
afters years of over analyzing
i concluded low dose test and high dose finasteride is the only way to go for a guy with hairloss who wants muscles but not want to be a slaphead at 25
so i just use 1ml of 300mg/ml test e
i did like 12wks then came off stopped training etc for 6 then got back on
that back on part
was like what ... 5-6 wks ago? i dont know anymore
i stop keeping track now
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Nasser kept track of everything in his log books.
says who?
did they find them post mortem?
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afters years of over analyzing
i concluded low dose test and high dose finasteride is the only way to go for a guy with hairloss who wants muscles but not want to be a slaphead at 25
so i just use 1ml of 300mg/ml test e
i did like 12wks then came off stopped training etc for 6 then got back on
that back on part
was like what ... 5-6 wks ago? i dont know anymore
i stop keeping track now
yikes@!.. u know using low test and high finestride you're asking for chemical castration? I'd rather see you use Dutasteride (splling?)
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yikes@!.. u know using low test and high finestride you're asking for chemical castration? I'd rather see you use Dutasteride (splling?)
cock better than ever
your opinion is unsubstantiated and you are revealing your ignorance
there are two types of dht for instance
AND
your body gets used to less dht regardless
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nah thatd come most likely if dosage is increased and gets fatter.
hes kinda within "safe" border.
esfitness, you look, uhm, ok.
yah, stay on the normal dose chalo, and the by end of year see where you wanna go
2.5mg of finasteride will increase estradiol tho despite "only" 300mg test
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cock better than ever
your opinion is unsubstantiated and you are revealing your ignorance
there are two types of dht for instance
AND
your body gets used to less dht regardless
ugh... c'mon dude. realize who you're talking to.
I've got 5 mins before I gotta go take a shit, shower, shave, and head out to my first client of the day. I think. lets see how many links I can find reguarding chemical castration w/finastride in that time.
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Off-label uses
Finasteride is sometimes used in hormone replacement therapy for male-to-female transsexuals in combination with a form of estrogen due to its antiandrogen properties.[9][10] However, little clinical research of finasteride use for this purpose has been conducted and evidence of efficacy is limited. Indeed, finasteride is a substantially weaker antiandrogen in comparison to conventional antiandrogens like spironolactone and cyproterone acetate. Furthermore, it has been associated with inducing depression and anxiety at a high rate in both male and female patients,[11] symptoms that are very common in transsexuals, who are already at a high risk.[12] As a result, prescription of finasteride for this indication in male-to-female transsexuals may not be particularly useful, and could put them at risk for detrimental emotional side effects. Finasteride has also been found to mitigate the effects of withdrawal after chronic alcohol use.[13]
Sexual side effects
There are case reports of persistent diminished libido or erectile dysfunction, even after stopping the drug.[21] In December 2008, the Swedish Medical Products agency concluded a safety investigation of finasteride and advised that finasteride may cause irreversible sexual dysfunction. The Agency's updated safety information lists difficulty in obtaining an erection that persists indefinitely, even after the discontinuation of finasteride, as a possible side effect of the drug.[22] The UK's Medical and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) cites reports of erectile dysfunction that persists once use of finasteride has stopped.[23] Similar labeling changes have been made by the Italian government. For a period of time there was a discrepancy between European and North American warning labels regarding the risks of developing persistent sexual side effects from taking Propecia but after two years in April 2011 Merck revised the United States' warning in consumer and medical leaflets to include erectile dysfunction that may persist after stopping finasteride.[24] In April 2012, the FDA chose to approve Merck's proposed labeling from 2011 only after the warning label was further strengthened to include reports of persistent libido disorders, ejaculation disorders, orgasm disorders, and decreased libido. [25][26][27]
Antiandrogens are classified as steroidal or nonsteroidal. Steroidal antiandrogens not only counter androgens, but also affect secondary sex characteristics. Steroidal antiandrogens directly affect gene expression due to their fat-soluble nature that allows them to diffuse through the plasma membrane’s phospholipid bilayer and prevent the binding of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) to the androgen receptor.[7] Non-steroidal antiandrogens, or "pure" antiandrogens, such as nilutamide and flutamide, counter androgens and have no steroidal effects. Antiandrogens inhibit circulating androgens by blocking androgen receptors, suppressing androgen synthesis, or acting in both those ways.[8] The most common antiandrogens are androgen receptor (AR) antagonists which act on the target cell level and competitively bind to androgen receptors.[2]
Inhibition of androgen production occurs through a unique mechanism for each antiandrogen. For example, ketoconazole not only competes with androgens such as testosterone and DHT for androgen receptor binding, but also suppresses androgen synthesis by inhibiting cytochrome P450 and 17,20-lyase, which partake in synthesizing and degrading steroids, including the precursors of testosterone. The result is a decrease in the overall testosterone production of the adrenal cortex.[9] Gonadotrophins, pituitary hormones capable of altering androgen synthesis, are also affected by antiandrogens. Antiandrogens can have suppressive effects on gonadotropin secretion by down-regulating gonadotropin-releasing hormone receptors (GnRHR) in the pituitary gland. A decreased amount of GnRHRs results in gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) not being able to bind sufficiently. GnRH is responsible for the release of the gonadotropins luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH). LH stimulates the Leydig cells of the testes and the theca cells of the ovaries to produce testosterone (and indirectly estradiol). Therefore, if GnRH cannot bind, testosterone synthesis is not induced in the testes or ovaries.[10]
Medical applications[edit]
Antiandrogenic pharmaceuticals are used to treat an array of medical conditions that are dependent on the androgen pathway. Antiandrogens are often prescribed for men with prostate cancer, benign prostatic hyperplasia, hypersexuality, male contraception, and for those that are undergoing gender reassignment
Pharmaceuticals for men[edit]
Antiandrogens in males can result in hyposexuality (diminished sexual desire or libido), reduced activity or function of the accessory male sex organs, and slowed or halted development or reversal of male secondary sex characteristics.[11]
Antiandrogenic drugs are often indicated to treat severe male sexual disorders, such as hypersexuality (excessive sexual desire) and sexual deviation such as paraphilia (a disorder involving intense recurrent sexual urges), since lowering male hormone levels decreases libido.[12] As a part of a program for registered sex offenders recently released from prisons, the offender is sometimes administered antiandrogen drugs to reduce the likelihood of repeat offenses by reducing sexual drive.[12] On occasion, antiandrogens are used as a male contraceptive agent.
Propecia Risks
Imagine a drug that shuts off androgen receptivity and production in the male body, literally castrating its users. Some might say this would be a perfect drug for repeat and violent sex offenders. However, someone got a better idea and decided to sell it to the general male public and all without mentioning any of the potential risks (Propecia in its hey day generated a little over $400 million per year in revenue.)
Yes, indeed, this castrating drug is called Propecia (generic name: finasteride) and you can buy it over the counter in countless stores for hair loss. As I cover in my link on Hair Loss, Propecia is rife with sexual side effects. Around one in ten men will experience significant erectile and sexual dysfunction after starting this nasty drug.
CAUTION: This drug is also sold under the trade name Proscar. Talk with your doctor before going off of any medication for prostate or other medical reasons.
Erectile dysfunction is just the beginning for many men. Around one in 50 will go on to experience severe androgen deficiency. There are many names for this, but Post Finasteride Syndrome has become quite common.
Do you know the foods and drinks that increase erection-boosting Nitric Oxide? Check out the Peak Erectile Strength Diet where I show you how to dramatically and naturally improve your erectile strength.
Regardless, what you call it, researchers do not really understand completely what is going on. Of course, Propecia is a strong anti-androgen that works by limiting 5 alpha reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. Propecia also binds to 5 alpha reductase and actually inserts itself into the same androgen locations. All of this results in some men in extreme and irreversible androgen insensitivity. Somehow permanent damage is done and, from what I have read, sometimes cannot be reversed with standard treatments given to steroid users who shut off their testosterone production.
The good news is that the industry is just now admitting the problem and a recent study in the Journal of Sexual Medicine admitted that permanent erectile damage did seem to be occurring with Propecia usage. [1] They even encouraged doctors to discuss these risks with their patients. Imagine that - discussing the potential risk of being chemically castrated before beginning a drug for prostate enlargement or hair lo
Adverse effects
Side effects of finasteride include impotence (1.1% to 18.5%), abnormal ejaculation (7.2%), decreased ejaculatory volume (0.9% to 2.8%), abnormal sexual function (2.5%), gynecomastia (2.2%), erectile dysfunction (1.3%), ejaculation disorder (1.2%) and testicular pain. According to the product package insert, resolution occurred in men who discontinued therapy with finasteride due to these side effects and in most men who continued therapy. The PPI also states that patients have reported persisting erectile dysfunction despite discontinuing the drug. In December 2010, Merck added depression as a side effect of finasteride.[14]
In November 1997, an FDA panel refused to recommend approval of the drug Propecia for male pattern baldness. Although it was not disputing its efficacy, the committee members expressed some concerns about the possibility of long-term side effects on sexual function and possibly even fertility, which arose because of some evidence of diminished ejaculate levels. [15]
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Those training and nutrition and drug regiment records nasser kept where pretty much priceless. I think Nasser was one of the few body builders through out time that would have done good against todays bodybuilders. He was kind of ahead of his time on his physique. Im pissed no magazines gave him even a decent page to say what he contributed to the sport. It makes me really mad when I think about it they could have taken one of the 20 million repeat articles they have about bicep peaks and just put one page saying rest in peace Nasser. I would rather pay 10 grand for his training notes than a big ass piece of art to hang on my wall that's for sure
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calling me out? I was wondering what you meant by "fuck off aesthetics" in the other thread. now I see it was directed towards me.
not that I really give a fuck about who or what you think I am, but here's something to jerk off to. I realize it's a msg board, and you're a big tough guy, but you should think twice before you go around being disrespctfull.
what a monster! ::)
Im jp, you look bro 8) this is how we do it on gb
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look, if someone wants to use gramm(s) year in year out, thats fine, but do not tell to ransdom kids that its safe, you clowns.
listen kids, 1 gramm weekly is far from safe, dont listen to any fatso who hasnt seen his abs in his life yet.
umm cause it is...yes bloodwork is fine and blood preesure kept under control by meds. keep open with your doctor and most will have no problem talking about it hell its a break from the normal shit they gotta deal with. eat clean low sodium low caffeine and your good.
300mgs is just wasting money ask anyone whos been in the game for a long time theyd laugh their ass off.
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not a waste
i'm having the gainz of my life these last few months
for years i tried to look like i lifted
now i have to try to hide the fact i lift
but people can always not shut up about it
not huge but
noticable gainz
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so using 300 is the the better choice over using 500?
E
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250+ and I get chin bloat and sock marks on my ankles, so I don't go over it
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nice to see a cocky know it all new comer on here say galeniko what dosages have you personally tried and for how long?
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if you're worried about 'side effects', then fucking manage them.
who the fuck expects to use steroids at doses ONLY where there are no sides?
your ankles are puffy? your chin is puffy? control your estrogen!!@#
actually, I like it that some guys are sooooo scared and brainwashed with bro-science that they're afraid to run anything over a gram (TOTAL! for fucks sake). that's cool. stay a buck-80.
but, when some of use DO go up to doses you get scared of, don't #1 call us liars #2 say we're gonna die. it' just makes you sound incredibly ignorant. and if you wanna sensationalize the 'dangers' and play to peoples (17yr old kids) fears, don't get all butt hurt when we call you on your pansy-ness. you're like the getbig steroid board's Bill O'Rieley with all your fear-mongering.
remember when the earth used to be flat? well, the same's true for the guys that'd get all these supposed health problems when they went over 1.5g/wk, and NOBODY ever went over 2g test/wk. but that's cool... keep believing that. ::)
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if you're worried about 'side effects', then fucking manage them.
who the fuck expects to use steroids at doses ONLY where there are no sides?
your ankles are puffy? your chin is puffy? control your estrogen!!@#
actually, I like it that some guys are sooooo scared and brainwashed with bro-science that they're afraid to run anything over a gram (TOTAL! for fucks sake). that's cool. stay a buck-80.
but, when some of use DO go up to doses you get scared of, don't #1 call us liars #2 say we're gonna die. it' just makes you sound incredibly ignorant. and if you wanna sensationalize the 'dangers' and play to peoples (17yr old kids) fears, don't get all butt hurt when we call you on your pansy-ness. you're like the getbig steroid board's Bill O'Rieley with all your fear-mongering.
remember when the earth used to be flat? well, the same's true for the guys that'd get all these supposed health problems when they went over 1.5g/wk, and NOBODY ever went over 2g test/wk. but that's cool... keep believing that. ::)
:-* bro love