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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: King Shizzo on July 31, 2013, 02:00:40 AM
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ReelzChannel is getting back into the Kennedy family business, and once again likely to make some waves. In November, the network that aired the Emmy-winning 2011 miniseries "The Kennedys" will debut "JFK: The Smoking Gun," a new documentary offering the theory that John F. Kennedy was killed, not by Lee Harvey Oswald’s rifle, but by the friendly-fire bullet of an inexperienced Secret Service agent. It is a theory that has been around awhile and has had a difficult track record and the news that Reelz is airing a show based on it has already ignited anger in this hotly disputed stretch of history.
But despite the controversy and the theory's troubled past, Reelz is defending its decision to air the documentary.
"There's been lots of theories about the grassy knoll and everything else, but a bullet came from behind the car [Kennedy was in]," ReelzChannel CEO Stan Hubbard tells Yahoo! TV of the evidence that will be presented in the Nov. 3 special. "The only possible gun that could have been in that area is that Secret Service gun. So the finding is that it was an accidental discharge. Nobody's claiming anybody did anything wrong. But at the time, in the middle of the Cold War ... remember, it wasn't a time that the U.S. government would have liked to admit a botched security detail in the most important mission they had."
According to Hubbard's explanation of the docudrama, the timeline of the events of Nov. 22, 1963, will go something like this:
After Lee Harvey Oswald fired an initial shot at the Kennedy motorcade in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, a Secret Service agent named George Hickey responded. Hickey, an inexperienced agent who had never been on follow-up car duty, grabbed his AR-15 Secret Service rifle and, while standing in the back of the car that was behind the Kennedy vehicle in the motorcade, fired a shot, he hoped, towards the enemy fire. But the car he was riding in suddenly lurched forward, and, the theory suggests, Hickey's hand faltered, sending his bullet towards the president’s head. Oswald had fired a second shot that also hit Kennedy, but it was not necessarily the shot that fatally wounded JFK, according to the theory.
While sure to provoke strong reactions when it airs during the lead-up to the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's assassination, the theory is not a new one.
"The Smoking Gun" revolves around the work of author Bonar Menninger and detective-turned-author Colin McLaren. Menninger wrote the 1992 book "Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK," which included the theory.
Presented by Menninger, the theory draws on the work of a Maryland ballistics expert named Howard Donahue, who for a 1967 CBS special re-created the three shots captured in the famous Zapruder film of the assassination. Donahue, who died in 1999, agreed with the Warren report conclusion that Oswald acted alone, but he also believed, until he died, that the shot that killed Kennedy came from "a position behind and to the left of the president," he told the Baltimore Sun in 1977.
Menninger and McLaren told TV critics at the ReelzChannel Television Critics Association summer press tour in Beverly Hills on Sunday that the "Smoking Gun" documentary will lay out, in scientific detail, the decades-old theory of Hickey's accidental shooting of JFK, including information that the bullet sizes of Oswald's and Hickey's guns were different (and that the bullet in the fatal shot was too small to have come from Oswald's gun). Pouring gasoline on the fires, the documentary will also allege that the Secret Service agents assigned to protect JFK had been drinking the night before the assassination, and that Robert Kennedy — JFK's brother and the U.S. attorney general at the time — knew about the alleged Hickey shot and helped cover it up to shield the Secret Service.
"['JFK: The Smoking Gun'] isn't setting out to damage, to point fingers at, George Hickey,” Reelz’ President Hubbard states. “George Hickey had an accident take place when a gun discharged in his hands. Anybody who's around firearms at all knows that guns do accidentally go off."
Hickey filed a defamation suit against Menninger and "Mortal Error" publishers St. Martin's Press and Simon & Schuster in April 1995. But "Mortal Error" was published in 1992, and Hickey's lawsuit, filed in Maryland, was dismissed because it was filed well beyond Maryland's one-year statute of limitations for defamation claims.
In 1998, however, Hickey received an undisclosed settlement in the case. Menninger said at the TCA panel that St. Martin's only offered him a "nominal" amount to try to prevent him from appealing the dismissal of his previous suit, so they wouldn't be caught up in a lengthy and expensive legal battle. But Hickey's attorney, Mark S. Zaid, told the Baltimore Sun that Hickey was "very satisfied" with the settlement.
"To think that someone could have fired an AR-15 rifle on that day and that no one would have noticed, of the hundreds of people that were watching on either side of the street, just bends the imagination," Zaid said of Hickey, who retired from the Secret Service, in good standing, in 1971.
Hickey died two years ago, according to McLaren, leaving theorists free to present their case without fear of further lawsuits.
Not surprisingly in what is the most famous and polarizing ongoing crime investigation in history, critics have poked holes in the Hickey premise since Menninger published his book more than 20 years ago.
Debunkers have dismissed the Hickey theory as just one of many flimsy JFK conspiracy theories. Others have echoed attorney Mark Zaid's belief that if Hickey had fired his gun that day in Dallas, witnesses would have reported it.
Author David Pietrusza, in his 1996 book "Mysterious Deaths: John F. Kennedy," points out that "elastic recoil of the skull" could account for the discrepancy between the size of the bullet that hit Kennedy's head and the size of the wound it produced.
Representatives of the Kennedy family did not respond to requests for comment.
McLaren, during the TCA presentation, offered a broad response to these assertions: "We're talking about 1963. It was the black and white era. It was 'Leave It to Beaver.' It was 'I Love Lucy.' And whatever you rolled out to the public, generally speaking, was acceptable. The Warren Commission rolled out a 'lone gunman' theory. It was nonsense, because they didn't apply the crime-scene principles and procedures of today, of 2013. They didn't apply a forensic analysis, as we do today, as we expect today."
"I came to this as a skeptic," Hubbard says. "From day one, the American public has not believed that there was a lone gunman. The story just didn't make sense. And there have been hundreds of conspiracy theories on how to explain it. 'JFK: The Smoking Gun' explains it ballistically and through what would be considered rules of evidence in a criminal investigation.
"I don't expect anybody to take this as the end-all, definitive answer, but I do hope ['JFK: The Smoking Gun'] will at least kick off a discussion that can put some finality to the assassination of a great president in 1963."
With tempers still raw about this matter fifty years later, and charges such as those made in this documentary still inflaming them wildly, that civilized discussion may have to wait a decade or two more.
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Lakers
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Maybe Alex was trying to shoot out the windshield and his hair blew in the way?
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JFK was murdered by Lucien Sarti from the Grassy Knoll with the fourth shot fired.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2h57n12.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/169hkkj.jpg)
He was dressed as a Dallas policeman so that he could be in the plaza without arousing suspicion.
One of the other assassins was named Jean Souetre.
It is not readily known who the third shooter was.
One of the two was in the book depository. The other was in the Dal-Tex building.
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I live in Dallas and no matter what time you drive by Dealey Plaza day or night there are tourest out there. When I was and high school we would drive by and throw M 80's out the window and scare the shit out of them. good times. ;D
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Killed by CIA Richard belzer wrote a book about it
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My favourite sexual position is the JFK. I splatter all over her while she screams and tries to get out of the car.
So good I showed it to my wife! ;D
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:D
My favourite sexual position is the JFK. I splatter all over her while she screams and tries to get out of the car.
:D
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Yes, it couldn't have possibly been the guy who that morning took off his wedding ring and left it at home, traveled to work with a collegue who when asked why he had a long thin 3-4 foot paper bag in his hand he said they were curtain rods.Couldnt have been the same man who was sighted by multiple witnesses leaning out of the book depository window with a rifle aimed at the president.Nor was the same mans handprint on said rifle plus 3 spent cartridges anything to do with the presidents death.The fact an overwhelming amount of the witnesses only heard 3 shots is just a coincidence.The same man running from the scene after the presidents death and seen by multiple witnesses murdering a police officer who tried to stop him is purely chance.Also trying to shoot the officer who apprehended him in a movie theatre isn't conclusive evidence.
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Yes, it couldn't have possibly been the guy who that morning took off his wedding ring and left it at home, traveled to work with a collegue who when asked why he had a long thin 3-4 foot paper bag in his hand he said they were curtain rods.Couldnt have been the same man who was sighted by multiple witnesses leaning out of the book depository window with a rifle aimed at the president.Nor was the same mans handprint on said rifle plus 3 spent cartridges anything to do with the presidents death.The fact an overwhelming amount of the witnesses only heard 3 shots is just a coincidence.The same man running from the scene after the presidents death and seen by multiple witnesses murdering a police officer who tried to stop him is purely chance.Also trying to shoot the officer who apprehended him in a movie theatre isn't conclusive evidence.
Yes but he could have easily been either a patsy or one of multiple shooters. There are many people who say there was no way he could get three shots off from the angle he was at. Also the question of different sized bullets. There had to of been multiple gunman.
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Joe de maggio killed Kennedy with a well aimed baseball for shagging Marylyn.
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I watched a very good documentary awhile back. Oswald was an average shooter at best in the marines.
(from wiki) Like all Marines, Oswald was trained and tested in shooting and he scored 212 in December 1956, slightly above the requirements for the designation of sharpshooter.[15] In May 1959 he scored 191 which reduced his rating to marksman.[15][28]
They claimed that even the best snipers could only get one clean shot off from his vantage point. There were three shots fired correct? The final bullet striking JFK in the head. They said it would be mathematically impossible for the third shot to strike Kennedy from oswald's angle. Hence the conspiracy.
The mob, Cuba, and (maybe even the government, due to kickbacks from said parties) wanted both kennedy brothers dead. Obviously there had to have been inside help.
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Watch the zapruder film....the driver turns around and shoots him from a ft away...the rest is fairly easy..
The lizards execute their own sometimes for other reasons than the public are aware of
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dave mirza
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Watch the zapruder film....the driver turns around and shoots him from a ft away...the rest is fairly easy..
The lizards execute their own sometimes for other reasons than the public are aware of
That would lend credibility to the secret service story. Although it wouldn't have been friendly fire. Planned fire.
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Key stone cops
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Yes but he could have easily been either a patsy or one of multiple shooters. There are many people who say there was no way he could get three shots off from the angle he was at. Also the question of different sized bullets. There had to of been multiple gunman.
Go on YouTube or use google, it was easy as shit for an amateur shooter to make those shots and has been done many times since with ease.everyone who visits dealey plaza remarks at hw tiny it is
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I watched a very good documentary awhile back. Oswald was an average shooter at best in the marines.
(from wiki) Like all Marines, Oswald was trained and tested in shooting and he scored 212 in December 1956, slightly above the requirements for the designation of sharpshooter.[15] In May 1959 he scored 191 which reduced his rating to marksman.[15][28]
They claimed that even the best snipers could only get one clean shot off from his vantage point. There were three shots fired correct? The final bullet striking JFK in the head. They said it would be mathematically impossible for the third shot to strike Kennedy from oswald's angle. Hence the conspiracy.
The mob, Cuba, and (maybe even the government, due to kickbacks from said parties) wanted both kennedy brothers dead. Obviously there had to have been inside help.
All taken from the University of youtube no doubt.
Really, if you want to read some debunking of Kennedy's conspiracy theories read this thread
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=222556
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(http://www.wrestlingdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/john-cena-and-liz.jpg)
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All taken from the University of youtube no doubt.
Really, if you want to read some debunking of Kennedy's conspiracy theories read this thread
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=222556
I'm not claiming a solution to the assassination. I'm just saying that it is unlikely that Oswald acted alone. They had multiple people in place to make sure the job got done.
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They claimed that even the best snipers could only get one clean shot off from his vantage point. There were three shots fired correct? The final bullet striking JFK in the head. They said it would be mathematically impossible for the third shot to strike Kennedy from oswald's angle. Hence the conspiracy.
Err, no.This is the thing about the Kennedy and other conspiracies, people just make shit up.Most of these men got the shots off QUICKER, had never use the type of rifle before or very little and only had a little time to practice in a range with it, the shooters were average joes and still were getting, 1,2 and 3 hits, give them a few years practice with the rifle and I'm sure they all would be getting 2 hits plus.
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I'm not claiming a solution to the assassination. I'm just saying that it is unlikely that Oswald acted alone. They had multiple people in place to make sure the job got done.
It's unlikely he acted alone yet its more likely there were extra shooters in place?
'Occams Razor' mean anything to you?
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there are still so much questions to ask about what truly happend.
-the fbi helped bombing the world trade center before.
-what about building 7
-a rockafeller had told of what was going to happen months before.
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there are still so much questions to ask about what truly happend.
-the fbi helped bombing the world trade center before.
-what about building 7
-a rockafeller had told of what was going to happen months before.
Sign up here and ask these guys
They will educate you
http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=91
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This video should sway any doubters. They recreate the head shot from oswalds position, what do you know, it replicates the way kennedys head blew open and the splatter patterns in kennedy's limo.
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This video should sway any doubters. They recreate the head shot from oswalds position, what do you know, it replicates the way kennedys head blew open and the splatter patterns in kennedy's limo.
Illuminati sponsored video. ;D
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Oswald acted alone.
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I was always a top shooter in the USMC (228 was my lowest score)
and I would not be able to get off all of those shots with a bolt action like that and still blow up his head
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I was always a top shooter in the USMC (228 was my lowest score)
and I would not be able to get off all of those shots with a bolt action like that and still blow up his head
Arce is as credible a witness as we have on here. Very interesting.
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Arce is as credible a witness as we have on here. Very interesting.
Lol
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I was SWAT in the USMC so I also used M40A1 Sniper Rifle
I shot on a one thousand yard course. I held a one foot group at that range. I was always an expert with every weapon (.45. 9mm, M16, M40, etc)
I was NOT able to do what they said Lee did. We all tried it. We never did it. I shot with the best in the world. FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA, USMC Scout Snipers, etc
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I was SWAT in the USMC so I also used M40A1 Sniper Rifle
I shot on a one thousand yard course. I held a one foot group at that range. I was always an expert with every weapon (.45. 9mm, M16, M40, etc)
I was NOT able to do what they said Lee did. We all tried it. We never did it. I shot with the best in the world. FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA, USMC Scout Snipers, etc
You don't have to explain it Arce. Although it adds some awesome insight into this thread.
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I was SWAT in the USMC so I also used M40A1 Sniper Rifle
I shot on a one thousand yard course. I held a one foot group at that range. I was always an expert with every weapon (.45. 9mm, M16, M40, etc)
I was NOT able to do what they said Lee did. We all tried it. We never did it. I shot with the best in the world. FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA, USMC Scout Snipers, etc
But you didn't grow up with bolt rifles I would imagine, guys from the fifties and sixties did.The video I showed of the Shooting range proves that your statement doesn't really hold water.
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Roberts interviewed Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, the former Senior Master Instructor at the Marines Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia. Roberts asked Hathcock if he thought Oswald could have done what the Warren Commission said he did. Hathcock said NO.
Hathcock reconstructed the assassination at Quantico: the angle, moving target, time limit etc. he told Roberts, “I don’t know how many times we tried it, but we couldn’t duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did.
Again, we are talking about professionals. Men who completely outclass Oswald in raw shooting ability. But further, these are professional assassins who practice their skills almost daily.”
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Carlos Hathcock could NOT do it. End of story.
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I was NOT able to do what they said Lee did. We all tried it. We never did it. I shot with the best in the world. FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA, USMC Scout Snipers, etc
Lees fisrt shot missed by a mile, his second two hit.
They were lucky shots.
If you shoot randomly at a barn you will hit it somewhere, now go and draw a circle around the bullet hole and tell people that you were aiming for the circle.
Could someone else put a bullet through your hole?
See where I going with this?
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Lees fisrt shot missed by a mile, his second two hit.
They were lucky shots.
If you shoot randomly at a barn you will hit it somewhere, now go and draw a circle around the bullet hole and tell people that you were aiming for the circle.
Could someone else put a bullet through your hole?
See where I going with this?
Thats the whole point. According to many people, Lee only had one good shot from his vantage point. He missed his shot. He wouldnt have time to reload his bolt-action rifle twice more , and hit JFK with a headshot on the third.
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Roberts interviewed Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, the former Senior Master Instructor at the Marines Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia. Roberts asked Hathcock if he thought Oswald could have done what the Warren Commission said he did. Hathcock said NO.
Hathcock reconstructed the assassination at Quantico: the angle, moving target, time limit etc. he told Roberts, “I don’t know how many times we tried it, but we couldn’t duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did.
Again, we are talking about professionals. Men who completely outclass Oswald in raw shooting ability. But further, these are professional assassins who practice their skills almost daily.”
You are posting hearsay accounts yet Im showing a video of multiple mr jo blow America making the shots.
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I knew instantly that Oswald could NOT have done it. . . . The reason I knew that Oswald could NOT have done it, was that *I* could NOT have done it.
Retired Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock is likewise skeptical of Oswald's alleged shooting feat. Hathcock is a former senior instructor at the U. S. Marine Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia.
He has been described as the most famous American military sniper in history. In Vietnam he was credited with 93 confirmed kills. He now conducts police SWAT team sniper schools across the country. Craig Roberts asked Hathcock about the marksmanship feat attributed to Oswald by the Warren Commission.
Hathcock answered that he did NOT believe Oswald could have done what the Commission said he did. Added Hathcock,
Let me tell you what we did at Quantico. We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, EVERY thing. I do not know how many times we tried it, but we could NOT duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did.
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ANY thing is possible. So I will just shut the fuck up.
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I knew instantly that Oswald could NOT have done it. . . . The reason I knew that Oswald could NOT have done it, was that *I* could NOT have done it.
If Steve can't do it, then Oswald couldn't have either
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Keith Hernandez
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ANY thing is possible. So I will just shut the fuck up.
No arce, you have lots of wisdom, theres tons of b.s on this forum, please post more sir.
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George Kennedy is cool. I hope nobody shot him.
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Keith Hernandez
While JFK is a load of madeup nonsense, ironically I love it as a work of fiction.
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Imagine what this guy would have been capable of during the wild wild west.lol
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Guys its simple. The Kennedy's were way ahead of the times. I would argue that they didnt want to be puppets, and actually wanted to run the nation. They were dealt with.
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Imagine what this guy would have been capable of during the wild wild west.lol
Holy shit, most amazing thing I've seen for a while
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Munden was a beast
RIP
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200 yard shot with a pistol.lol
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jfk wasnt even shot, hes still alive i seen him at dinner with elvis the other day
Nassar is their limo driver
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Yes, it couldn't have possibly been the guy who that morning took off his wedding ring and left it at home, traveled to work with a collegue who when asked why he had a long thin 3-4 foot paper bag in his hand he said they were curtain rods.Couldnt have been the same man who was sighted by multiple witnesses leaning out of the book depository window with a rifle aimed at the president.Nor was the same mans handprint on said rifle plus 3 spent cartridges anything to do with the presidents death.The fact an overwhelming amount of the witnesses only heard 3 shots is just a coincidence.The same man running from the scene after the presidents death and seen by multiple witnesses murdering a police officer who tried to stop him is purely chance.Also trying to shoot the officer who apprehended him in a movie theatre isn't conclusive evidence.
1.The bag was too small to hold the Carcano even broken down.
2. Oswald had no graphite on his hands or cheek that showed he fired a gun and/or pistol that day.
3. Shells were found by officer Tippet's body even though Oswald had a .38 revolver. He would've had to empty the shells from this wheel gun in order for there to be shells on the ground. Why do that and leave evidence that can be traced back to your gun?
4. Twice the Dallas police dusted the gun for prints. They found none. The first time the FBI dusted for prints, well, they found none. Later, they decided to test it again and found a very smudged palm print on the butt of the rifle.
5. Whenever anyone attempts to recreate the shooting, I notice they never have a tree (Texas live Oak) in their way like Oswald did. Going by the timing of the Zapruder film, he would've been completely blocked off visually for the first two shots.
You don't know what you're talking about. ::)
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The CHICAGO MOB had BOTH kennedys whacked................. end of discussion.
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200 yards with that pistol is a crazy shot
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Oliver Stone did it.