Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: hardgainerj on August 02, 2013, 03:27:06 PM
-
The new ephedra?
Recent positive tests for amphetamines cause worry in supplement industry
I got an introduction to the fringes of the supplement industry a few years ago when I went to Shanghai posing as the owner of an American supplement company with business cards for a site called progymgear.com and a list of powerful PEDs to get made. Ready to deal, I caught a cab to the Shanghai New Exposition Centre, where the Convention on Pharmaceutical Ingredients was being held.
As I flashed my shopping list to vendors there, I explained that I needed the PEDs shipped to the U.S. in violation of American laws dealing with controlled substances. Big pharma companies turned me away; they didn't need that kind of trouble. But plenty of smaller Chinese drug companies were eager to take my bait. One helpful woman even offered to send me the drugs via FedEx with a label that read "watermelon extract."
This is how things work in the underground. Designers who spend time researching unapproved drugs send their recipes to black marketeers in China — or increasingly places like Thailand and Vietnam — where chemists fill the orders and send back raw powder that is turned into capsules.
These days, the buzz is about a supplement called Craze, which promises "endless energy." And thanks to a recent USA Today report, the talk isn't just going on in secretive chat rooms.
Craze is the work of Matt Cahill, the owner of a company called Driven Sports. As USA Today's Alison Young reported, Cahill spent the past dozen years getting rich with little apparent regard for his customers' health. One of his biggest hits was a powerful steroid called Superdrol, which he admitted paying a Chinese lab $20,000 to produce.
Superdrol took off in 2004, at about the same time Cahill was going to jail for selling a weight-loss supplement that contained a molecular cousin of TNT. A company that licensed the wildly popular steroid from him eventually had to take it off the market after customers started complaining of liver problems and the Food & Drug Administration leveled charges that it was an unapproved new drug.
Cahill's latest gift to the sports world is Craze, which was named "New Supplement of the Year" in 2012 by the website Bodybuilding.com. Last June, the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency found traces of an amphetamine in a batch it tested.
The USADA's scientists aren't the only ones troubled by that finding. Tiger Fitness, a large online supplement retailer, pulled Craze from its shelves after an analog called "eth-amphetamine" turned up in a batch it tested with an expiration date of November 2015. (The company made its report available to me.)
"Craze was our best selling pre-workout product," said Marc Lobliner, the business director for Tiger Fitness. "But until someone can prove it's 100 percent clean, we won't keep it on our site. It's just not worth it."
Some athletes are already blaming Craze for failed drug tests, including a bodybuilder who was bounced from a competition in Britain this spring and a rugby player who was suspended last year, leading the Australian Anti-Doping Agency to discover high levels of "eth" in the Craze he took.
The word may just be getting out among anti-dopers, but Craze has been widely discussed in chat rooms since it debuted in late 2011. "I have never had anything effect me like this before," one poster wrote on Bodybuilding.com. "My energy and just plain desire to be up and moving was not controllable. Honestly I was moving at such a fast pace I almost found it hard to talk because my words were smashing together, I literally had to force my self to talk slowly."
That jibes with the findings of Mahmoud ElSohly, a research professor at the University of Mississippi School of Pharmacy who performed the tests at the lab hired by Tiger Fitness. "The problem with this compound is that it hasn't been studied, and it's not mentioned on the label, so there's no way for an athlete to know how much to take," says "At some levels, you could see blood pressure go up. At larger levels, you could be talking about serious side effects, maybe heart attacks."
As insane as that sounds, at least one other company appears to be following Cahill's lead. Tiger Fitness provided a report showing it also found high levels of "eth" in a product called Detonate by Gaspari Nutrition. The finding led it to yank that supplement from its lineup as well.
The company's CEO Richard Gaspari, didn't reply to a message left at his Lakewood, N.J., headquarters.
What's intriguing about all this is how some of the most unlikely figures in the supplement underground are banding together to blow the whistle on this latest challenge to federal drug laws, which list amphetamines as a controlled substance.
Patrick Arnold, who developed "the cream" and "the clear" for BALCO, said "I can't compete with this because I can't put speed in my products."
Ron Kramer, another BALCO figure who runs a company called Thermolife, and facilitated the tests for Tiger Fitness, terms the presence of amphetamines in supposedly all-natural products "sinister."
The main reason they're up in arms -- besides whatever benevolent motives they may harbor -- is that the $30 billion supplement industry is almost entirely unregulated, and they'd like to keep it that way. Craze and Detonate threaten to awaken the sleeping giant by causing Congress to take another look at its industry-friendly stance.
Cahill insists this is all a big mistake. On the website for his Driven Sports, he writes: "Extensive testing of Craze … [shows] the product does not contain any illegal stimulants."
But given the other evidence, and Cahill's regulatory history, it's not surprising that his rivals are calling for federal intervention.
"There are a lot of people on the sidelines who know what's in Craze," a key player in the business told me. "And if nothing happens in six months -- if it looks like the feds don't care -- everyone is going to be loading their weight-loss supplements with speed. And then, watch out."
When I called the FDA's Office of Criminal Investigation, the initial response I got wasn't encouraging. A spokesman said she didn't know anything about the USA Today article, even though Daniel Fabricant, head of the FDA's dietary supplement division, was quoted in the paper saying, "We are concerned about the rise of products that [are] … similar to amphetamine on the market."
I worry that while we're tying ourselves up in knots about A-Rod and the relatively small Florida anti-aging clinic where he got his steroids, a far bigger public health problem is brewing.
Remember the ephedra scandals of a decade ago? Players showed up to ERs in cardiac arrest. In one of the most publicized cases, Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Belcher collapsed during spring training in 2003 with a body temperature of 108, and subsequently died of heatstroke.
Like Craze, ephedra was billed as a way to get instant energy and lose weight. It was also linked to more than a hundred deaths, among them high school and college athletes who collapsed on the field, before it was banned in 2004.
So far we've been lucky. That hasn't happened. But with football training camps just getting into gear, the summer is a long way from over.
The word has to get out. Please, let's end the craziness now
(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0731/espn_testa_400.jpg)
-
-
Patrick Arnold, who developed "the cream" and "the clear" for BALCO, said "I can't compete with this because I can't put speed in my products." (http://Patrick Arnold, who developed "the cream" and "the clear" for BALCO, said "I can't compete with this because I can't put speed in my products.")
And that's what it's all about at the end of the day, isn't it?
Scumbag.
-
Guess I better get some of that there craze.
-
ESPN hard at work again. .. always trying to fuck up a good thing.. no diff from SI
-
And people want bodybuilding mainstream? Are you nuts? Do you enjoy watching Men's Physique? Cause that's what it would be. :-X :-X :-X
-
Is this Craze stuff anything like Jack3d ? And, is Craze still on the market?
-
just googled it...cheap as shit too..25 bucks
-
ESPN hard at work again. .. always trying to fuck up a good thing.. no diff from SI
Unfortunately, the supp industry needs Congress to take a look at it. It needs to be regulated, and this proves it. And I hop that it leads to taking a look at the IFBB as well.
-
Is this Craze stuff anything like Jack3d ? And, is Craze still on the market?
and where can I pick some up.
-
Unfortunately, the supp industry needs Congress to take a look at it. It needs to be regulated, and this proves it. And I hop that it leads to taking a look at the IFBB as well.
I don't.... the supplement industry is just fine the way it is....was better ten years ago.
yeah let's make it so EVERYTHING they sell doesnt do shit.
-
Unfortunately, the supp industry needs Congress to take a look at it. It needs to be regulated, and this proves it. And I hop that it leads to taking a look at the IFBB as well.
Congress is the last group of people that needs to look at anything. They are an inept group of elitist. I like it the way it is although I feel you should be able to go to a doc and get Gh and juice.
-
I don't.... the supplement industry is just fine the way it is....was better ten years ago.
yeah let's make it so EVERYTHING they sell doesnt do shit.
When everything is deregulated, then there is no standard. I here what you are saying. But, if the supp industry had more regulation, then you wouldn't have shit like this. That goes for all of the supps, not just the performance enhancing products. I mean you have products sold thru Rite Aid/GNC that people are getting the shakes, heart palpitations, etc. And then there are the dietary supps...what do they conform to? Who regulates them?
Think of it like the gas you put in your car. There are regs or min. requirements correct? Same thing.
Now, there will always be the idiots where the bottle says "take two" and the person takes 4-6, and winds up in the hospital. You can't stop stupidity.
-
The Craze chased with some Clear.... you are good to go after that.
-
and where can I pick some up.
this
-
and where can I pick some up.
exactly!
-
And people want bodybuilding mainstream? Are you nuts? Do you enjoy watching Men's Physique? Cause that's what it would be. :-X :-X :-X
lol mens physique dudes juice pretty hard too man.
-
Is this Craze stuff anything like Jack3d ? And, is Craze still on the market?
Jack3d made my skin crawl. I still have four little tubs of that stuff. It was amazing for energy, but the comedown when it wore off was terrible.
-
Jack3d made my skin crawl. I still have four little tubs of that stuff. It was amazing for energy, but the comedown when it wore off was terrible.
jacked sucked ass after you used it for a while. screw pre workouts though. id rather hit some dbol or anadrol. or methyl tren lol
-
jacked sucked ass after you used it for a while. screw pre workouts though. id rather hit some dbol or anadrol. or methyl tren lol
methyl tren 500 ? shit is insane
-
methyl tren 500 ? shit is insane
lol 500mcg? nah. 1mg 90minutes pre workout, have a little something to eat afterwards... chill for a bit jerk off maybe... then go hit the gym and tear shit up ;)
now. 1mg methyl tren + 50mg tren ace, hex, enanthate and base(from a blend, yes 200mg tren in one cc), along with another 200mg of tren ace on its own and 100mg masteron.
now that was a workout my friend. PR's were set.
-
When everything is deregulated, then there is no standard. I here what you are saying. But, if the supp industry had more regulation, then you wouldn't have shit like this. That goes for all of the supps, not just the performance enhancing products. I mean you have products sold thru Rite Aid/GNC that people are getting the shakes, heart palpitations, etc. And then there are the dietary supps...what do they conform to? Who regulates them?
Think of it like the gas you put in your car. There are regs or min. requirements correct? Same thing.
Now, there will always be the idiots where the bottle says "take two" and the person takes 4-6, and winds up in the hospital. You can't stop stupidity.
we agree in principle. problem for me is I think they shouldn't have to illegally spike stuff to make it work. they should be allowed to sell the good shit.....1 test, eca, hdrol, superdrol....and regulate that effectively....as in DON'T sell it to 14 year olds.No internet sales...you want it, you go to vitamin shoppe, show your ID and buy it.
-
lol 500mcg? nah. 1mg 90minutes pre workout, have a little something to eat afterwards... chill for a bit jerk off maybe... then go hit the gym and tear shit up ;)
now. 1mg methyl tren + 50mg tren ace, hex, enanthate and base(from a blend, yes 200mg tren in one cc), along with another 200mg of tren ace on its own and 100mg masteron.
now that was a workout my friend. PR's were set.
I'm talking about this. take one and an hour later your skin is splitting
-
we agree in principle. problem for me is I think they shouldn't have to illegally spike stuff to make it work. they should be allowed to sell the good shit.....1 test, eca, hdrol, superdrol....and regulate that effectively....as in DON'T sell it to 14 year olds.No internet sales...you want it, you go to vitamin shoppe, show your ID and buy it.
yes. gear should be legal and should be available OTC in the same way alcohol or cigs are. That would also mean BETTER AND CLEANER gear as big pharma would hop on this opportunity so fast its not even funny. theyd have truck loads of shit waiting for the law to pass.
-
I'm talking about this. take one and an hour later your skin is splitting
get some injectable methyl tren.
I found it gave me the most insane and painful pumps, insane aggression and forcefulness in the gym. i really enjoyed my deadlifts with methyl tren. 500mcg was good, but 1mg was where it got really good.
-
we agree in principle. problem for me is I think they shouldn't have to illegally spike stuff to make it work. they should be allowed to sell the good shit.....1 test, eca, hdrol, superdrol....and regulate that effectively....as in DON'T sell it to 14 year olds.No internet sales...you want it, you go to vitamin shoppe, show your ID and buy it.
yes, exactly. This is what I think should happen. I wholeheartedly agree.
-
get some injectable methyl tren.
I found it gave me the most insane and painful pumps, insane aggression and forcefulness in the gym. i really enjoyed my deadlifts with methyl tren. 500mcg was good, but 1mg was where it got really good.
googling it....ha ha
-
When everything is deregulated, then there is no standard. I here what you are saying. But, if the supp industry had more regulation, then you wouldn't have shit like this. That goes for all of the supps, not just the performance enhancing products. I mean you have products sold thru Rite Aid/GNC that people are getting the shakes, heart palpitations, etc. And then there are the dietary supps...what do they conform to? Who regulates them?
Think of it like the gas you put in your car. There are regs or min. requirements correct? Same thing.
Now, there will always be the idiots where the bottle says "take two" and the person takes 4-6, and winds up in the hospital. You can't stop stupidity.
There not idiots...Speed is addicting...Everyone who gets hooked on speed is going to up the dosage...Gaspari and anyone else putting speed in their supps need to be put in prison...
-
googling it....ha ha
methyltrienolone is the technical name for those interested... its oral trenbolone. most liver toxic steroid aparently. i didnt notice any issues though. just amazing workouts (used it pre workout only)
-
methyltrienolone is the technical name for those interested... its oral trenbolone. most liver toxic steroid aparently. i didnt notice any issues though. just amazing workouts (used it pre workout only)
the stuff I posted converts to trestolone acetate...whatever the fuck that is.
-
There not idiots...Speed is addicting...Everyone who gets hooked on speed is going to up the dosage...Gaspari and anyone else putting speed in their supps need to be put in prison...
no, what I meant by was the ephedra deaths. Like the Orioles baseball player and others. I think he just started taking it, and the bottle said 2, and he took more. You see this with people who do the NOxplode, and other supps. And even with the good shit---"up the dosage", when they have only been lifting for 1 month...and I do mean 1 month of first time lifting.
-
It's worse than street speed or Adderal or whatever, since these analogues haven't been tested = no way to know how neurotoxic they might be.
It's essentially "bath salts" they are selling as supplements.
-
the stuff I posted converts to trestolone acetate...whatever the fuck that is.
Big difference to methyltrienolone. Methyltrienolone is the stuff that's meant by "methyl tren".
I wouldn't trust any UG to properly dose a methyltrienolone product, or even trust them to have sourced the right compound.
-
the stuff I posted converts to trestolone acetate...whatever the fuck that is.
hmm ive heard good things about it myself actually. not entirely sure what it can be compared to though.
-
Big difference to methyltrienolone. Methyltrienolone is the stuff that's meant by "methyl tren".
I wouldn't trust any UG to properly dose a methyltrienolone product, or even trust them to have sourced the right compound.
id only trust one lab to have a legit proper dosed methyl tren product
-
Big difference to methyltrienolone. Methyltrienolone is the stuff that's meant by "methyl tren".
I wouldn't trust any UG to properly dose a methyltrienolone product, or even trust them to have sourced the right compound.
yup. it's just branding....nothing "tren" about it except it's dry gains and it's a.19 nor
shit works though....I'm over 240 ATM ...not as vascular as tren a...but hard as a rock.
I called someone a nig-nog a couple weeks ago and my GF punched me in the stomach and sprained her wrist
PS he was white no racist.
-
yup. it's just branding....nothing "tren" about it except it's dry gains and it's a.19 nor
shit works though....I'm over 240 ATM ...not as vascular as tren a...but hard as a rock.
I called someone a nig-nog a couple weeks ago and my GF punched me in the stomach and sprained her wrist
PS he was white no racist.
nice. now add the tren a in!
-
nice. now add the tren a in!
Coasting right now. just ran 14 weeks of tren A , test prop
September I'm running this and tren. fuck test. I hate it. Every time I run test, I drop it halfway into the cycle. just makes me hold water. I dont care about the added size. size I got.
I'm going to look into that trienolone though. maybe that instead.
-
I called someone a nig-nog a couple weeks ago and my GF punched me in the stomach and sprained her wrist
PS he was white no racist.
lol
-
Coasting right now. just ran 14 weeks of tren A , test prop
September I'm running this and tren. fuck test. I hate it. Every time I run test, I drop it halfway into the cycle. just makes me hold water. I dont care about the added size. size I got.
I'm going to look into that trienolone though. maybe that instead.
its really liver toxic man id be careful. i got it more as a fun run kind of thing to use pre workout a couple times a week. i didnt notice any ill effects myself, but many have reported jaundice from it LOL. id run it again, but i think you'd be better off running some EQ or maybe primo if you can get legit stuff. a gram of either would be sick. ive run my fair share of EQ. my buddy joked that i was turning into a horse at one point :D
why not just put your test real low, like shoot 50mg prop eod or something? i use half a cc of enanthate as my base test dose and i have no problems with bloat or water from the test. something like 50 prop EOD 300 Primo EOD and 200mg Tren EOD (not sure how high you run your tren). Shit id love to run that...
-
its really liver toxic man id be careful. i got it more as a fun run kind of thing to use pre workout a couple times a week. i didnt notice any ill effects myself, but many have reported jaundice from it LOL. id run it again, but i think you'd be better off running some EQ or maybe primo if you can get legit stuff. a gram of either would be sick. ive run my fair share of EQ. my buddy joked that i was turning into a horse at one point :D
why not just put your test real low, like shoot 50mg prop eod or something? i use half a cc of enanthate as my base test dose and i have no problems with bloat or water from the test. something like 50 prop EOD 300 Primo EOD and 200mg Tren EOD (not sure how high you run your tren). Shit id love to run that...
good advice....you know your stuff.
I'm gonna kick.shit around in my head. I'm pretty mild...350 wk on tren a is a cycle for me.
That's why I always talk shit about running a serious cycle, but I. bitch out and just run tren again
-
When everything is deregulated, then there is no standard. I here what you are saying. But, if the supp industry had more regulation, then you wouldn't have shit like this. That goes for all of the supps, not just the performance enhancing products. I mean you have products sold thru Rite Aid/GNC that people are getting the shakes, heart palpitations, etc. And then there are the dietary supps...what do they conform to? Who regulates them?
Think of it like the gas you put in your car. There are regs or min. requirements correct? Same thing.
Now, there will always be the idiots where the bottle says "take two" and the person takes 4-6, and winds up in the hospital. You can't stop stupidity.
Maybe people should simply do their research before purchasing supplements?
-
yes, exactly. This is what I think should happen. I wholeheartedly agree.
Okay, we're all pretty much on the same page here...
-
good thread
-
googling it....ha ha
good luck.
better off finding a local cook or doing it yourself. 1g will get you 200 bottles. lol.. just double check your measurements.
-
Methly tren as in the actual drug or is this some kind of supplement? Actual Methylated tren is used to induce prostate cancer in lab rats so I'd not touch it, even if some Chinese labs ar producing it.
Parker, GTFO congress should stick to fixing the economy , upholding the consitution and stopping illegal wars not sending even more of us to jail for buying black market creatine
That article makes me sick, so much emotional sensationalist witch hunt stirring bullshit
-
Big difference to methyltrienolone. Methyltrienolone is the stuff that's meant by "methyl tren".
I wouldn't trust any UG to properly dose a methyltrienolone product, or even trust them to have sourced the right compound.
it's available. not hard to dose. if it's injectable it's probably gonna be .45-.5mg/ml, oral is .3-.35mg/ml usually. knowing that many guys will be impatient (no need with this stuff though) and take 2-3cc. if it was .5mg/ml that'd be 1.5mg, and with the supposed toxicity of this stuff, the likelihood of the customer getting sick would be too much risk. risk management on the suppliers part would limit customers (not middlemen) to purchasing no more than 4 in two months without seeing a copy of recent bloodwork/lft.... it's more work & probably unrealistic, but better safe than sorry. heaven forbid some guy gets sick and has liver failure and next thing you know he's pointing the finger at the source who sold him the shit.
-
Methly tren as in the actual drug or is this some kind of supplement? Actual Methylated tren is used to induce prostate cancer in lab rats so I'd not touch it, even if some Chinese labs ar producing it.
Parker, GTFO congress should stick to fixing the economy , upholding the consitution and stopping illegal wars not sending even more of us to jail for buying black market creatine
That article makes me sick, so much emotional sensationalist witch hunt stirring bullshit
congress has no business in business.
personal responsibility. too many lawyers and lawmakers and not enough engineers, scientists, and chemists.