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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on August 21, 2013, 05:17:36 AM
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http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2013/08/ups-to-drop-15000-spouses-from.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_atlanta+%28Atlanta+Business+Chronicle%29
>:(
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Wonder if big time Mr. Blue Collar Liberal Union Guy Ed Schultz will be raising hell over this?
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Wonder if big time Mr. Blue Collar Liberal Union Guy Ed Schultz will be raising hell over this?
Only non-union U.S. workers were affected. But, the fact that these spouses were dropped clearly shows Obama is a liar because he stated that coverage would remain the same ("if you like your coverage, you can keep that coverage").
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Only non-union U.S. workers were affected. But, the fact that these spouses were dropped clearly shows Obama is a liar because he stated that coverage would remain the same ("if you like your coverage, you can keep that coverage").
If Barack Obama opens his mouth he's lying.
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Obamacare is much better than the status quo. So says all the libtards on this board.
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Obamacare is much better than the status quo. So says all the libtards on this board.
I am not sure how much longer you could let the country slide. I mean you guys rank shit for life expectancy, disease of excess which is world leading and the highest infant mortality rate in the western world. Forget the money aspect for insurance etc, it needs a major overhaul for ordinary folks and is heading for disaster.
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I am not sure how much longer you could let the country slide. I mean you guys rank shit for life expectancy, disease of excess which is world leading and the highest infant mortality rate in the western world. Forget the money aspect for insurance etc, it needs a major overhaul for ordinary folks and is heading for disaster.
The United States ranks third on the Human Development Index behind Norway and Australia. We have the same life expectancy as Denmark, we're only four years behind the leader, Japan. We're inline with countries like Canada on Infant Mortality.
You're an idiot
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The United States ranks third on the Human Development Index behind Norway and Australia. We have the same life expectancy as Denmark, we're only four years behind the leader, Japan. We're inline with countries like Canada on Infant Mortality.
You're an idiot
Oh Really? What is your source that contradicts every known world health data base.
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The United States ranks third on the Human Development Index behind Norway and Australia. We have the same life expectancy as Denmark, we're only four years behind the leader, Japan. We're inline with countries like Canada on Infant Mortality.
You're an idiot
On second thought, I don't usually do this anymore but this guy is a moron.
First notice he posts the HDI rankings, I did not mention them, but instead I said life expectancy. This is a diversionary tactic, this guy is stupid and has changed the argument.
"In the 2010 Human Development Report a further Inequality-adjusted Human Development Index (IHDI) was introduced. While the simple HDI remains useful, it stated that "the IHDI is the actual level of human development (accounting for inequality)" and the "the HDI can be viewed as an index of “potential” human development (or the maximum IHDI that could be achieved if there were no inequality)".
So why the fuck he posted that I do not know. He is a moron, you see the HDI takes into account things unrelated to health, namely two things, education and income. Of course this confuses the picture by including income (unrelated to actual healthcare, but increases odds of receiving care) and education, again why even post this. The answer folks is this guy is a moron, he googled life expectancy found the wiki page for Human development index and then proceeded to copy said wiki screenshot to show the world he is a moron. There is no arguing his way out of this, he posted the HDI ranks and then called me an idiot.
Now on to the facts to rebut your dumb anus.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/life-expectancy-north-america
Ranks the US 37 in the world in LE, again for the amount you pay that's incredibly poor. The WHO has similar stats, ranking you 33 I believe but there are a lot of ties, which is teased apart could put you at 50 or worst in the worst case scenario.
Roger Bacon doesn't even understand we are talking about healthcare nor did he read what I wrote, which was
"I am not sure how much longer you could let the country slide. I mean you guys rank shit for life expectancy, disease of excess which is world leading and the highest infant mortality rate in the western world. Forget the money aspect for insurance etc, it needs a major overhaul for ordinary folks and is heading for disaster."
Where is HDI mentioned? where is education mentioned? where is income mentioned?
Who is this idiot Roger Bacon, anyone?
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You are :)
The United States is in the top 16 percent of countries in the world. Not only that, but the United States has an extremely huge diverse population. Our statistics are completely skewed by that fact, yet we still manage to rank right behind European countries with socialized medicine.
Our high cost of healthcare is caused by government intervention, the solution won't come from increasing government intervention 10 fold.
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UPS has a massive hub in Lousiville and with the McConnell race heating up....Obama is doing no favors for dem control in the senate.
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You are :)
The United States is in the top 16 percent of countries in the world. Not only that, but the United States has an extremely huge diverse population. Our statistics are completely skewed by that fact, yet we still manage to rank right behind European countries with socialized medicine.
Our high cost of healthcare is caused by government intervention, the solution won't come from increasing government intervention 10 fold.
thats a very big picture, rational, common sense statement. you are not welcome here. someone please post some statistics.
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thats a very big picture, rational, common sense statement. you are not welcome here. someone please post some statistics.
what's rational about it?
US pays the most for healthcare by a fuckton and is average to below average at best.
Blaming the cost of healthcare on the government is like a fat person blaming diabetes on their teeth.
what points has he made that make any fucking sense with the underpinning of average to below average life expectancy and disease rates in the face of massive spending. You spend twice as much per person for average outcomes at best, ya fucking great system.
So let's see, again spends the most twice over and isn't in the top ten in multiple categories, not even that, sometimes not in the top 25, cause for celebration indeed.
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Contributing factor:
The high level of per capita income in the U.S. is a major factor driving U.S. health care spending. The U.S. has higher per capita income than any other large country, and higher income is closely associated with higher health care spending. Analysis done by Princeton professor Uwe Reinhardt suggests that about $1,200 per capital (in 2008 dollars) of the difference between the U.S. and peer countries (34% of the gap) is due to high levels of income in the U.S. (source). This is an explanation, but not a good justification, because, as the Meeker analysis (and other analyses) show, the U.S. appears not to receive value for the higher spending, as measured by medical outcomes.
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The WHO has similar stats, ranking you 33 I believe but there are a lot of ties, which is teased apart could put you at 50 or worst in the worst case scenario.
Roger Bacon doesn't even understand we are talking about healthcare nor did he read what I wrote, which was
"I am not sure how much longer you could let the country slide. I mean you guys rank shit for life expectancy, disease of excess which is world leading and the highest infant mortality rate in the western world. Forget the money aspect for insurance etc, it needs a major overhaul for ordinary folks and is heading for disaster."
Goodness fucking gracious
http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/a/SB10001424052748704130904574644230678102274?mg=reno64-wsj
"The Overall Performance Index, however, is adjusted to reflect how well WHO officials believe that a country could have done in relation to its resources."
"The WHO does rank the U.S. No. 1 of 191 countries for "responsiveness to the needs and choices of the individual patient." Isn't responsiveness what health care is all about?"
"We have the shortest waiting time for nonemergency surgery in the world; England has one of the longest. In Canada, a country of 35 million citizens, 1 million patients now wait for surgery and another million wait to see specialists"
sorry to burst your bubble candian but the healthcare in the US isnt what it is represented to libtard morons
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15,000 people dropped from coverage and ups blames obama care.
How is this even defendable?
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15,000 people dropped from coverage and ups blames obama care.
How is this even defendable?
Existing policies are going to cost a lot more money due to obamacare and long term UPS probably realizes that it cant afford it.
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sorry to burst your bubble candian but the healthcare in the US isnt what it is represented to libtard morons
ugh 37 in life expectancy, you are best at nothing it appears yet spend by far the most, twice as much % GDP as the next nation. You multiple variable index nor HDI accounts for this.
It's not bad, I mean you guys have the best equipment save a few nations and the system attracts the best minds. I am saying it's sliding, you are below average in many areas. Immediately to discredit the lunatic left (Me apparently) you rebut an argument never presented.
What I wrote is true, healthcare needs serious reform. First spending per person needs to drop, ie preventative medicine, the crux of that issue is that this takes away from revenue.
The efficiency is the other issue. With an aging population and economy the way it is, I would be worried.
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I would be worried.
Everything was going perfectly fine for the vast majority of us. Most of us have access to the best healthcare in the world. Only 15% of Americans are uninsured, and almost all of them get medicare/medicaid.
The only thing we have to worry about is losing our insurance or not being able to afford it anymore because of Obamacare.
If politicians sincerely wanted to help, they would attack the real problem. Healthcare should be treated like any other business.
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The hilarious part of Obamacare is that some people actually believe it's an attempt to help people. They can't see that it's just another gigantic power grab by the Federal Government.
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15,000 people dropped from coverage and ups blames obama care.
How is this even defendable?
How can anyone defend obamacare? Obama care allows this to happen by allowing spouses to not be covered and by fostering the expectation that premiums will be higher.
Are we now going to tell businesses that they have to cover for health care no matter what the cost? If this is the case, businesses will go bankrupt or they will send jobs overseas.
Everyone looks to save money. I don't want to pay more for my health insurance. Why would I expect businesses to be any different?
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fukn obama care.
the healthcare system in the US is a disaster due to the lawyers and insurance companies.
If you need 10 stitches anywhere else on the planet it would cost $50, here it runs $2500.
obamacare is a shitty attempt to please voters without actually fixing the biggest problem with the system.
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fukn obama care.
the healthcare system in the US is a disaster due to the lawyers and insurance companies.
If you need 10 stitches anywhere else on the planet it would cost $50, here it runs $2500.
obamacare is a shitty attempt to please voters without actually fixing the biggest problem with the system.
Great post.
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Everything was going perfectly fine for the vast majority of us. Most of us have access to the best healthcare in the world. Only 15% of Americans are uninsured, and almost all of them get medicare/medicaid.
The only thing we have to worry about is losing our insurance or not being able to afford it anymore because of Obamacare.
If politicians sincerely wanted to help, they would attack the real problem. Healthcare should be treated like any other business.
No that's not what you have to worry about. What is happening is the US is paying twice as much for healthcare and it is heading towards failure. It won't work the way it's set up. Preventative medicine has to be championed.
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ugh 37 in life expectancy, you are best at nothing it appears yet spend by far the most, twice as much % GDP as the next nation. You multiple variable index nor HDI accounts for this.
It's not bad, I mean you guys have the best equipment save a few nations and the system attracts the best minds. I am saying it's sliding, you are below average in many areas. Immediately to discredit the lunatic left (Me apparently) you rebut an argument never presented.
What I wrote is true, healthcare needs serious reform. First spending per person needs to drop, ie preventative medicine, the crux of that issue is that this takes away from revenue.
The efficiency is the other issue. With an aging population and economy the way it is, I would be worried.
Oh I whole heatedly agree the healthcare system needs to be addressed however universal healthcare or Obamacare are not the way to help the problems
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Oh I whole heatedly agree the healthcare system needs to be addressed however universal healthcare or Obamacare are not the way to help the problems
I think if you look at the best healthcare to GDP expenditure socialized medicine is the best method. I haven't seen better options for large groups of people. What improvements would you make?
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The best option is private healthcare...why do I have to pay for somebody else? What right do people have to heathcare that they haven't planned for themselves? If you can't afford insurance that is not my issue.
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The best option is private healthcare...why do I have to pay for somebody else? What right do people have to heathcare that they haven't planned for themselves? If you can't afford insurance that is not my issue.
I guess, but the fallout of this is that more people may be uninsured, being ill, I would expect that to increase costs in every other area.
This is the point you don't get. The socialized medical model has found that keeping people healthy improves everything about a country. You could actually pay less despite"paying for others" yet receive very similar care and see a more prosperous nation not rich as hell doctors. The payoff is greater.
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I guess, but the fallout of this is that more people may be uninsured, being ill, I would expect that to increase costs in every other area.
This is the point you don't get. The socialized medical model has found that keeping people healthy improves everything about a country. You could actually pay less despite"paying for others" yet receive very similar care and see a more prosperous nation not rich as hell doctors. The payoff is greater.
Doctors aren't rich as hell, but they should be when you consider all that goes into their profession. I want an extremely well paid doctor treating me.
I do not want to see some mediocre doctor that's exhausted because he's been forced to treat every illegal immigrant, and hood rat in town.
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Doctors aren't rich as hell, but they should be when you consider all that goes into their profession. I want an extremely well paid doctor treating me.
I do not want to see some mediocre doctor that's exhausted because he's been forced to treat every illegal immigrant, and hood rat in town.
Not sure what your getting at, no where did I imply doctor;s are currently rich as hell, nor did I say an illegal immigrant should be treated.
you have poor reading comprehension, explains why you posted the HDI which has nothing to do with anything I said earlier also.
You seem as though you like to hear yourself speak. Try listening or understanding what people are saying dildo.
I think having the worlds biggest economy increase your HDI a little, seeing as it's one of the three variables. The fact that you don't have the highest HDI is telling though, thanks for proving my point.
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Not sure what your getting at, no where did I imply doctor;s are currently rich as hell, nor did I say an illegal immigrant should be treated.
you have poor reading comprehension, explains why you posted the HDI which has nothing to do with anything I said earlier also.
You seem as though you like to hear yourself speak. Try listening or understanding what people are saying dildo.
I think having the worlds biggest economy increase your HDI a little, seeing as it's one of the three variables. The fact that you don't have the highest HDI is telling though, thanks for proving my point.
Life expectancy is a criteria of HDI.
Quit melting down already... lol
All you've done throughout this thread is spout your baseless personal opinions, which are complete garbage.
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I think if you look at the best healthcare to GDP expenditure socialized medicine is the best method. I haven't seen better options for large groups of people. What improvements would you make?
why not strive for the best healthcare and not the best healthcare given certain constraints?
I like the no pre-existing conditions clause but you do realize that will raise the cost to insure, correct?
Letting insurance companies compete across state lines, I dont mind letting kids stay on their parents insurance until whenever as long as the insurance companies are allowed to raise their rates in those instances.
The biggest thing that will help and exactly what obamacare is preventing is creating full time private sector jobs here in the US. The more full time jobs the more healthcare is available to those working.
The way to get more full time jobs? less taxes, smaller government, less restrictive industry regulations/business regulations etc.
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I guess, but the fallout of this is that more people may be uninsured, being ill, I would expect that to increase costs in every other area.
This is the point you don't get. The socialized medical model has found that keeping people healthy improves everything about a country. You could actually pay less despite"paying for others" yet receive very similar care and see a more prosperous nation not rich as hell doctors. The payoff is greater.
I do get it...look where its worked the best...very small countries with homogeneous populations. It cant be duplicated here. As much as I don't want to pay for these people..they don't want to do anything to prevent disease.
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The way to get more full time jobs? less taxes, smaller government, less restrictive industry regulations/business regulations etc.
This^^^^^^^^^^^
Government regulation ALWAYS drives prices up, this is an indisputable fact.
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why not strive for the best healthcare and not the best healthcare given certain constraints?
I like the no pre-existing conditions clause but you do realize that will raise the cost to insure, correct?
Letting insurance companies compete across state lines, I dont mind letting kids stay on their parents insurance until whenever as long as the insurance companies are allowed to raise their rates in those instances.
The biggest thing that will help and exactly what obamacare is preventing is creating full time private sector jobs here in the US. The more full time jobs the more healthcare is available to those working.
The way to get more full time jobs? less taxes, smaller government, less restrictive industry regulations/business regulations etc.
Yea, the more I've been thinking about it, the more I think we need to just get the insurance companies out of it period. A free market would drive prices down drastically and this middle man shit needs to come to an end.
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Life expectancy is a criteria of HDI.
Quit melting down already... lol
All you've done throughout this thread is spout your baseless personal opinions, which are complete garbage.
Right it's one of them, the other two variables are just as important hence its a poor reflection of healthcare and you including it in this conversation makes you a retard.
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what's rational about it?
US pays the most for healthcare by a fuckton and is average to below average at best.
Blaming the cost of healthcare on the government is like a fat person blaming diabetes on their teeth.
what points has he made that make any fucking sense with the underpinning of average to below average life expectancy and disease rates in the face of massive spending. You spend twice as much per person for average outcomes at best, ya fucking great system.
So let's see, again spends the most twice over and isn't in the top ten in multiple categories, not even that, sometimes not in the top 25, cause for celebration indeed.
so your answer is to make the people that are overpaying pay even more into the system because we also want to service the people who can't afford the shitty healthcare that we already have? OK got it. seems like a slam dunk. the problem with you libs is you don't understand that these additional costs need to be pulled out of somewhere.
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what's rational about it?
US pays the most for healthcare by a fuckton and is average to below average at best.
Blaming the cost of healthcare on the government is like a fat person blaming diabetes on their teeth.
what points has he made that make any fucking sense with the underpinning of average to below average life expectancy and disease rates in the face of massive spending. You spend twice as much per person for average outcomes at best, ya fucking great system.
So let's see, again spends the most twice over and isn't in the top ten in multiple categories, not even that, sometimes not in the top 25, cause for celebration indeed.
your ignorance is rooted in the fact that you don't think it can get any worse. it can. it can get a lot worse.
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http://news.investors.com/082313-668492-health-premiums-climbed-obama-promised-cut.htm
Premiums climbed 3,000 since 2009
Obama lied again, and again and again.
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your ignorance is rooted in the fact that you don't think it can get any worse. it can. it can get a lot worse.
Ya that's a real logical position to take, sounds like me ::) I forgot about the worsening law of healthcare, that is, it can't ever get worse no matta wha.
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Doctors aren't rich as hell, but they should be when you consider all that goes into their profession. I want an extremely well paid doctor treating me.
I do not want to see some mediocre doctor that's exhausted because he's been forced to treat every illegal immigrant, and hood rat in town.
You got that right.
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why not strive for the best healthcare and not the best healthcare given certain constraints?
I like the no pre-existing conditions clause but you do realize that will raise the cost to insure, correct?
Letting insurance companies compete across state lines, I dont mind letting kids stay on their parents insurance until whenever as long as the insurance companies are allowed to raise their rates in those instances.
The biggest thing that will help and exactly what obamacare is preventing is creating full time private sector jobs here in the US. The more full time jobs the more healthcare is available to those working.
The way to get more full time jobs? less taxes, smaller government, less restrictive industry regulations/business regulations etc.
I agree with you. I just don't see any small government suitable candidates. I also don't think less regulations is good, that can have serious economic (wall street) and environmental impacts.
I think it's harder to create something new then to improve upon something that works. I think the latter method is the best bet for sustainable healthcare, with untested models you are taking a pretty big risk.
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I agree with you. I just don't see any small government suitable candidates. I also don't think less regulations is good, that can have serious economic (wall street) and environmental impacts.
I think it's harder to create something new then to improve upon something that works. I think the latter method is the best bet for sustainable healthcare, with untested models you are taking a pretty big risk.
I dont think a rational person makes the statement that regulation is good or bad, it depends on the situation and any rational person can look at this government and see that it has severly over-regulated businesses raising the cost of operation. It has some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, miles of red tape and bearaucracy, a government that puts public agenda ahead of economic stability.
and these same retards are the ones looking around asking each other why the economy isnt getting better faster and why businesses keep moving jobs overseas.
youre falling into the same trap the liberals here in the US did bro, acting simply for the sake of saying you did something...IS FUCKING HORRIBLE, it gives you shit stains like this obamacare, Iraq etc....
PS there were plenty of politicians who were warning about the impending housing crisis...including former president bush, they guy you probably hold up as the poster boy for everything wrong...
while obama was pushing for more federal spending, bush was warning about the housing crisis...how does that sit with you?
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It might suprise you who was arguing for regulation of fannie and freddie and who was arguing against it...
not all regulation is bad just like not all regulation is good.
whats bad is when you let public agenda push regulation, LIKE IN THE CASE OF OBAMACARE!!!!!