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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The_Hammer on September 21, 2013, 11:14:44 PM
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Great thread
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Fucking commie. Some people are smart, some are not. Does he really think that everyone deserves to be rich? Wealth distribution in US is natural and it is similar to IQ distribution. Yes, not all smart people are rich but if you are smart you will not be poor unless you choose to be.
This is natural order of things.
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Fucking commie. Some people are smart, some are not. Does he really think that everyone deserves to be rich? Wealth distribution in US is natural and it is similar to IQ distribution. Yes, not all smart people are rich but if you are smart you will not be poor unless you choose to be.
This is natural order of things.
Robert addressed this logic at 21:50 of this video (Bill Moyers)
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Fucking commie. Some people are smart, some are not. Does he really think that everyone deserves to be rich? Wealth distribution in US is natural and it is similar to IQ distribution. Yes, not all smart people are rich but if you are smart you will not be poor unless you choose to be.
This is natural order of things.
BILL MOYERS: There are people who disagree with us on this, as I'm sure you know. They even celebrate inequality. When former Senator Rick Santorum was running for the Republican nomination for president last year, he made a speech at the Detroit Economic Club.
RICK SANTORUM at Detroit Economic Club: President Obama is all about equality of results. I'm about equality of opportunity. I'm not about equality of result when it comes to income inequality. There is income inequality in America. There always has been and hopefully, and I do say that, there always will be. Why? Because people rise to different levels of success based on what they contribute to society and to the marketplace and that's as it should be.
ROBERT REICH: Well, first of all, let's be clear about what we are arguing. Rick Santorum is exactly right in saying that nobody should expect or even advocate equality of outcome. The real problem is that we don't have equality of opportunity. What do I mean by that? Number one, the schools available to poor and lower middle class and many middle class families and their kids are not nearly as good as the schools available to the wealthy.
The tax laws are weighted increasingly in favor of the wealthy. Therefore a lot of middle class and poor people actually are paying, particularly through social security taxes, which nobody talks about. They all want to talk about income taxes. They're paying a much larger share of their income.
The laws governing almost everything we can imagine are tilted toward shareholders away from those whose major asset is your house. So it's not equality of opportunity. That's the problem. If we really had equality of opportunity we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
I think again, it's important to bear in mind that some inequality is necessary if we're going to have a capitalist system that creates incentives for people to work hard and to invent and to try very hard. The question is not inequality, per se.
The question is, at what point do you tip over, do you get to a tipping point where the degree of inequality actually is threatening your economy, your society, your democracy? When do you reach a point where inequality is simply too much? Where most of your people feel like the game is rigged.
BILL MOYERS: The film makes it clear. You think we are reaching that tipping point, that we're just right there.
ROBERT REICH: I think that in terms of the economy, we are very close. In fact, the Great Recession-- it has many causes. But one of the major causes was that the last coping mechanism that the middle class used, even though their wages were flat or declining, to continue to spend and keep the economy going was to borrow against their homes. And that, of course, exploded in everybody's face. You couldn't do that.
So there's no longer a coping mechanism. One reason why the recovery has been so anemic is that you don't have enough purchasing power in your society because all of the gains are going to a very small number at the top. So you don't have to wait and say, "Well, we're going to get that tipping point economically, 'cause we're already there."
Fact of the matter is, most Americans now are losing faith in our democracy. Which seems to me, you know, is our most precious gift, the most precious legacy that we have to hand down to our future generations.
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Inequality in access to education? What?
If you have internet you have access to everything. You have lectures from MIT, Stanford and so on online. Maybe instead of these guys invested as much time as they invest in searching for porn in searching for knowledge they would end up with bigger income than 30k$/year.
There are plenty of countries with free education by the way, nobody forbids you to emigrate. If USA is so shitty why don't they leave? You have free public education in Poland. Move to Poland. ENJOY.
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Inequality in access to education? What?
If you have internet you have access to everything. You have lectures from MIT, Stanford and so on online. Maybe instead of these guys invested as much time as they invest in searching for porn in searching for knowledge they would end up with bigger income than 30k$/year.
There are plenty of countries with free education by the way, nobody forbids you to emigrate. If USA is so shitty why don't they leave? You have free public education in Poland. Move to Poland. ENJOY.
You assume everyone has access to computers/high speed internet.
You also assume that the poor would only spend their time look at online porn.
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You assume everyone has access to computers/high speed internet.
You also assume that the poor would only spend their time look at online porn.
Of course everyone has access to internet and computers.
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Of course everyone has access to internet and computers.
Do you have data to support your claim?
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There always has been and hopefully, and I do say that, there always will be. Why? Because people rise to different levels of success based on what they contribute to society and to the marketplace and that's as it should be.
Sadly, Cronyism and Nepotism keep a lot of those who should NOT be rich... rich
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Do you have data to support your claim?
We are talking about USA, aren't we? Computers have same price everywhere in the world. In fact, they are cheaper in USA than anywhere else. Let's compare USA to Poland, shall we? Poor people in Poland earn about 500$ per month. Cost of living is maybe 80% of what it is here. Do the math. On top of that, I come from the biggest shithole in Poland. And yes, still, people do have computers here. And everyone has access to internet.
So please don't bullshit me. You don't even know the real meaning of "poor". You merely adopted the poverty. I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see iPhone until I was already a man...
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Of course everyone has access to internet and computers.
You are trolling right? This is so far from true, even in the USA, that this statement has to be a troll. Let's not even get to talking about the rest of the world.
edit: Your claim is anecdotal for someone living in Poland. Well, it's wrong. Especially when applied to countries like the USA. I know of at least a dozen people personally that don't own, nor have access to a computer. Let alone the internet. Yeah, this is anecdotal, but it's the absolute truth. And these are people that aren't considered "poor" in the USA. Each one of these people know their own chain of people in the same situation.
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(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTa356XU0V-v5GNTYr5oFpXFCVT81OFweD2DcatH8WcA621UpA-)
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Inequality in access to education? What?
If you have internet you have access to everything. You have lectures from MIT, Stanford and so on online. Maybe instead of these guys invested as much time as they invest in searching for porn in searching for knowledge they would end up with bigger income than 30k$/year.
Hahah, yes, Tyrone's disposition is entirely of his making and if he'd only put down the bucket of chicken and become self-educated in economics, mathematics, and the like via online MIT courses, he'd be "balling" like the rest of us.
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A school's success (% of graduates, test scores, etc) is tied to funding. Should any of those categories drop in percentage, funding is reduced or cut off, thereby eliminating a bureaucracy at best, an entire school at worst. In conclusion, the curriculum becomes so dumbed down that Leroy and Jose graduate (if they even do) at a 7th grade reading level. Many other poor countries around the world have far less resources and utilities than even the poorest of US public schools, yet their students are far better learned than their US student counterparts. These other countries are not afraid to flunk or challenge the student academically. If this results in Wang or Yakov having to graduate high school at 24, then so be it.
Also to blame is the criminal justice industry with its army of well-funded law enforcement agenies, lawyers, private prisons, and the courts that disproportionately punishes racial minorities and the poor. Once sentenced to jail, prison, probation, or even presented with an arrest record, the millions of ex-convicts are now subject to discriminatory hiring/enrollment practices by companies and colleges. This alone keeps a perpetual sizeable populace grounded and punished within the criminal justice system. All in the name of money and funding, of course.
Inequality kills competitiveness.
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We are talking about USA, aren't we?
Sure. Why not.
Computers have same price everywhere in the world.
They do? That's interesting... can you provide some evidence of this assertion for us?
In fact, they are cheaper in USA than anywhere else.
Hey... wait a second. You can't have your polish sausage and eat it too. You just finished telling us how the price of computers is the same everywhere. So which is it?
Let's compare USA to Poland, shall we?
Sure...
Poor people in Poland earn about 500$ per month.
At least they get paid in Zloty, which sounds way cooler than Dollar. But's let's say that the figure you quote is accurate.
Cost of living is maybe 80% of what it is here.
Uhm, the United States is a big-ass country and the cost of living fluctuates wildly. You can't even begin to make the statement you're making without narrowing it down. Does the 80% you refer to correlate to the cost of living in New York City? In San Francisco? In Las Vegas? In Salt Lake City?
Do the math.
Just as soon as you give us some real numbers, instead of numbers you pulled out of your ass.
On top of that, I come from the biggest shithole in Poland. And yes, still, people do have computers here. And everyone has access to internet.
You are making an extreme claim that cannot possibly be supported. I get it - you are exaggerating for effect. But it's a dumb exagerration to make because it's so easy to disprove.
So please don't bullshit me. You don't even know the real meaning of "poor". You merely adopted the poverty. I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see iPhone until I was already a man...
I didn't either, and I've never been poor. Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that the iPhone wasn't introduced until I had been a man for quite a few years.
But in all seriousness, there are places in the United States where the poverty is extreme. Is it as bad as Poland? I don't know, but I'll tell that if everyone in Poland has Internet, then they're better off than many people in the United States. This is a fact.
According to the Social Security Administration (http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2011) in 2011, more than 23,000,000 Americans made less than $5,000, more than 13,000,000 made more than $5,000 but less than $10,000, and more than 12,000,000 made more than $10,000 but below $15,000.
Let that sink in for a moment... 48,000,000 Americans who worked in 2011 were below the federal poverty line.
Perhaps I, having only "adopted the poverty" (whatever the fuck that means) don't understand. But you, coming for the worst shithole in Poland should.
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What does reich know about education?
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Do you have data to support your claim?
Free public library. all have computers and high speed internet.
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Inequality in access to education? What?
If you have internet you have access to everything. You have lectures from MIT, Stanford and so on online. Maybe instead of these guys invested as much time as they invest in searching for porn in searching for knowledge they would end up with bigger income than 30k$/year.
There are plenty of countries with free education by the way, nobody forbids you to emigrate. If USA is so shitty why don't they leave? You have free public education in Poland. Move to Poland. ENJOY.
You don't get it do you? In America everybody has "rights" and "deserve everything".
That person who is searching for porn, thinks that they deserve a million dollars, because they have a right to.
Right now, you are supporting idiots who don't work and claim that they disabled because they self diagnosed themselves as "depressed" or hurt their arm 6 yrs ago, and now are hooked on Oxy. And all they do is sit on their collective asses and smoke weed, do Oxy, and get laid...and get a check cut for $700+.
Hell, many of the dudes who do this are getting more ass than you, while you are going to work, or school...
Some of these dudes are hitting off the wives of men making 6 or 7 figures...
Why, because our system not only allows it, it encourages it. Because these people will vote for the people who will continue the faucet to run. Not for those, who want to the faucet shut off.
And the repubs base want the faucet shut off for the above, but shut on for them. It's a shell game.
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The most recent government data show more than half of the families defined as poor by the Census Bureau now have a computer in the home. More than three of every four poor families have air conditioning, almost two-thirds have cable or satellite television, and 92 percent have microwaves.
How poor are America’s poor? The typical poor family has at least two color TVs, a VCR and a DVD player. A third have a widescreen, plasma or LCD TV. And the typical poor family with children has a video game system such as Xbox or PlayStation.
Here are the percentages of households below the poverty level that the Census Bureau estimates had the following appliances:
Clothes washer: 68.7%
Clothes dryer: 65.3%
Dish washer: 44.9%
Refrigerator: 97.8%
Food freezer: 26.2%
Stove: 96.6%
Microwave: 93.2%
Air conditioner: 83.4%
Television: 96.1%
Video recorder/DVD: 83.2%
Computer: 58.2%
Telephone: 54.9%
Cell phone: 80.9%
Video game system: 53%
Internet service: 43%
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^Because one has to have cable, and PS3, XBox, etc. one has to have the latest smartphone. The freshest tattoos, the latest re-issued Nikes...
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The most recent government data show more than half of the families defined as poor by the Census Bureau now have a computer in the home. More than three of every four poor families have air conditioning, almost two-thirds have cable or satellite television, and 92 percent have microwaves.
How poor are America’s poor? The typical poor family has at least two color TVs, a VCR and a DVD player. A third have a widescreen, plasma or LCD TV. And the typical poor family with children has a video game system such as Xbox or PlayStation.
Here are the percentages of households below the poverty level that the Census Bureau estimates had the following appliances:
Clothes washer: 68.7%
Clothes dryer: 65.3%
Dish washer: 44.9%
Refrigerator: 97.8%
Food freezer: 26.2%
Stove: 96.6%
Microwave: 93.2%
Air conditioner: 83.4%
Television: 96.1%
Video recorder/DVD: 83.2%
Computer: 58.2%
Telephone: 54.9%
Cell phone: 80.9%
Video game system: 53%
Internet service: 43%
But, it's much easier to blame someone/something else. And if we gave more handouts, the "poor" would still bitch about the "unfairness."
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The fact is, life isn't fair. For the most part, the cream rises to the top. The poor are poor because of circumstances they put themselves in due to poor decision making at some point. There are exceptions I'm sure, but for the most part, poor dumb people are poor because they're dumb.
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^Because one has to have cable, and PS3, XBox, etc. one has to have the latest smartphone. The freshest tattoos, the latest re-issued Nikes...
Air Jordan's are to die for.....sometimes literally.
But, it's much easier to blame someone/something else. And if we gave more handouts, the "poor" would still bitch about the "unfairness."
Yes it is. Poverty today and poverty fifty years ago are radically different.
The fact is, life isn't fair. For the most part, the cream rises to the top. The poor are poor because of circumstances they put themselves in due to poor decision making at some point. There are exceptions I'm sure, but for the most part, poor dumb people are poor because they're dumb.
Life isn't fair. There are cycles of poverty that trap people. A child raised in poverty by dumb parents is more likely to continue the cycle. The real question is what do to. Population control is my answer. People who have multiple children they can't afford needs to end. Why is it that Africa's, home of some of the poorest countries in the world, is likely to see a major increase in population? In many ways it's foreign aid that's part of the problem.
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People who have multiple children they can't afford needs to end.
As a beginning point, the U.S. Government needs to stop issuing checks for every kid the "poor" pop out. Set a limit: say, ONE.
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As a beginning point, the U.S. Government needs to stop issuing checks for every kid the "poor" pop out. Set a limit: say, ONE.
I'm all for paying low income women to have tubal ligations. In the long run it would save a lot of money.
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I'm all for paying low income women to have tubal ligations. In the long run it would save a lot of money.
Yes, but Republicans won't touch that issue because they'd piss off more voters, and Democrats won't touch it because they'd diminish their voting demographic.
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Yes, but Republicans won't touch that issue because they'd piss off more voters, and Democrats won't touch it because they'd diminish their voting demographic.
The old specter of eugenics will be raises, Im sure. It's a practical solution. Not giving amnesty to unskilled, uneducated illegals is another.
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The old specter of eugenics will be raises, Im sure. It's a practical solution. Not giving amnesty to unskilled, uneducated illegals is another.
It's making a return I believe. Lots of people talking about their roots and heritage as of late.
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Fucking commie. Some people are smart, some are not. Does he really think that everyone deserves to be rich? Wealth distribution in US is natural and it is similar to IQ distribution. Yes, not all smart people are rich but if you are smart you will not be poor unless you choose to be.
This is natural order of things.
Natural order? I think we can do better than that.
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Natural order? I think we can do better than that.
So you think everyone is equal?
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The problem is that we as a society have focused far too long on the delusion that an "equal opportunity" society is a just society.
Until we move to an "equal results" society, things will never improve
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The problem is that we as a society have focused far too long on the delusion that an "equal opportunity" society is a just society.
Until we move to an "equal results" society, things will never improve
Lets try door #1 first. At some point.
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The problem is that we as a society have focused far too long on the delusion that an "equal opportunity" society is a just society.
Until we move to an "equal results" society, things will never improve
Amen. But people want that feel good, that happiness...
The Vulture wants to believe it's an Eagle...the mule wants to believe it's as fast as a thoroughbred.
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The fact is, life isn't fair. For the most part, the cream rises to the top. The poor are poor because of circumstances they put themselves in due to poor decision making at some point. There are exceptions I'm sure, but for the most part, poor dumb people are poor because they're dumb.
Are you willing to say the same thing when the poor take from the rich by force?
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A conditional cash transfer program doles out cash payments to poor families when they engage in healthy/economically productive activities. This type of welfare program is being implemented in a variety of countries and being test piloted in still more (a test pilot in NYC called 'Opportunity NYC' concluded in 2010) and has been met with significant success.
Maybe if we convert some or all federal welfare programs (excluding Medicare, Medicaid, and SS, which need their own solutions) into CCT programs, society can have its cake and eat it (in the aggregate, the poor will yield better health/educational/economic outcomes; America's ideology of equality of opportunity will be bolstered; and, it will cost less because the programs will have the same budget as now but won't spend 100% of it, given that not every poor family will meet eligibility requirements for payments).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_cash_transfer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_NYC#Results_of_Opportunity_NYC
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So you think everyone is equal?
Wha'fuck? Of course not. But everyone deserves something much closer to equal opportunity than what we have now. And really, what the fuck is "natural order" and why would your average getbigger endorse it? Per natural order, many of us would be losing a fuckload of muscle, right? Can't be having that shit.
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Fucking commie. Some people are smart, some are not. Does he really think that everyone deserves to be rich? Wealth distribution in US is natural and it is similar to IQ distribution. Yes, not all smart people are rich but if you are smart you will not be poor unless you choose to be.
This is natural order of things.
"Wealth distribution is similar to IQ distribution"? I call bullshit. Let's see if you can find some links to support that.
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A conditional cash transfer program doles out cash payments to poor families when they engage in healthy/economically productive activities. This type of welfare program is being implemented in a variety of countries and being test piloted in still more (a test pilot in NYC called 'Opportunity NYC' concluded in 2010) and has been met with significant success.
Maybe if we convert some or all federal welfare programs (excluding Medicare, Medicaid, and SS, which need their own solutions) into CCT programs, society can have its cake and eat it (in the aggregate, the poor will yield better health/educational/economic outcomes; America's ideology of equality of opportunity will be bolstered; and, it will cost less because the programs will have the same budget as now but won't spend 100% of it, given that not every poor family will meet eligibility requirements for payments).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_cash_transfer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_NYC#Results_of_Opportunity_NYC
Everybody is capable of doing some kind of "work," no matter how modest. It's fair and reasonable that able-bodied recipients contribute something.
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Equality aka collectivist propaganda is a pipe dream nurtured by goods/services provided by the able bodied.
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There s an illusion sold by medias for decades, that in this day and age you can do and have everything. Fact is, you cant. You still need money, and to get money, to work, or be born of someone who has money.
Now there are many strategies of survival, I'm always surprised by how people manage to survive, whatever their incomes, how they cooperate with each others.
It doesnt take brains, a high IQ or money to survive, many people survive using their looks for example, to get the money or the person who has the money.
Many ugly, handicapped people survive simply because other people take "care" of them and as a result get a job and salary.
The point of life for any life form is to adapt to survive, whatever the strategy of survival.
Nowadays you can get a "home" for 5000 bucks:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1120887579/Temporary_Shipping_Container_Homes_for_Sale.html
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You can buy laptop with Wi-Fi for 100$. I somehow cannot believe there is a city in the modern world that doesn't have a free Wi-Fi hotspot. So yes, everyone can afford PC.
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Are you willing to say the same thing when the poor take from the rich by force?
Sometimes I wonder if it will ever come to that. That said, if it's already that bad, the lawlessness, then yes, I will tell them.
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Wha'fuck? Of course not. But everyone deserves something much closer to equal opportunity than what we have now. And really, what the fuck is "natural order" and why would your average getbigger endorse it? Per natural order, many of us would be losing a fuckload of muscle, right? Can't be having that shit.
I believe that the game is okay for those who don't fuck up. I will agree it is tough to get ahead once you are in a hole.
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So you think everyone is equal?
No, everyone isn't equal, which is why "equal opportunity" is a farce. You have to make it "equal results" so that the less intelligent, less motivated, less dedicated people aren't left behind unfairly.
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No, everyone isn't equal, which is why "equal opportunity" is a farce. You have to make it "equal results" so that the less intelligent, less motivated, less dedicated people aren't left behind unfairly.
Uhm... If everyone isn't equal you can't possibly expect equal results without shackling the best and forcing them to be just as bad as the worst.
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No, everyone isn't equal, which is why "equal opportunity" is a farce. You have to make it "equal results" so that the less intelligent, less motivated, less dedicated people aren't left behind unfairly.
What? Hahahaha, are you serious? So I should give my money away just because some fucker was born less intelligent than I am?
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As a beginning point, the U.S. Government needs to stop issuing checks for every kid the "poor" pop out. Set a limit: say, ONE.
So how do you see this playing out? Poor woman pops out baby number 2, can't afford to feed it, baby dies of starvation.
How about couple has two children, a boy and a girl. They've fallen on hard times and so the mother tells the father to take the two children out in the woods lose them because they cannot afford to feed them. The two little lost children find a witch's house in the woods. The witch plans to cook them for dinner, instead they push the witch into her own oven, thus murdering her.
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So how do you see this playing out? Poor woman pops out baby number 2, can't afford to feed it, baby dies of starvation.
How about couple has two children, a boy and a girl. They've fallen on hard times and so the mother tells the father to take the two children out in the woods lose them because they cannot afford to feed them. The two little lost children find a witch's house in the woods. The witch plans to cook them for dinner, instead they push the witch into her own oven, thus murdering her.
Sounds cool to me.
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What? Hahahaha, are you serious? So I should give my money away just because some fucker was born less intelligent than I am?
A little too high and mighty aren't we? And by your logic, someone more intelligent than you should give you a second look or some money? Or a very attractive woman should by default look over your short comings (you are 5'3 correct) and maybe are less than attractive than what she is used to facially? Because after all, you can't help it...
And yes, there are plenty of people more intelligent than you who do give their money away to those who maybe less intelligent, or to those who may become more intelligent than them. This is their choice.
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(http://www.intellectcorp.com/images/bell-curve-hiring.jpg)
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So how do you see this playing out? Poor woman pops out baby number 2, can't afford to feed it, baby dies of starvation.
How about couple has two children, a boy and a girl. They've fallen on hard times and so the mother tells the father to take the two children out in the woods lose them because they cannot afford to feed them. The two little lost children find a witch's house in the woods. The witch plans to cook them for dinner, instead they push the witch into her own oven, thus murdering her.
The program, as it is currently run, is a "reward system" that encourages "poor" people to have more children they cannot afford. I know many people are producing children solely for the U.S Treasury checks that they bring. We need to move away from that type of encouragement, as it is certainly not helping the problem, but rather propagating it.
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So how do you see this playing out? Poor woman pops out baby number 2, can't afford to feed it, baby dies of starvation.
Yeah... it's easy to make up ridiculous examples, especially if you choose to use logical fallacies (in this case, bifurcation). You make it sound as if the only two alternatives are government checks or starving children. That's just bullshit. There aren't just those two options.
The simple fact is that there are plenty of non-government organizations that are working to feed and provide for the poor. If the government wasn't in the business of handing out checks to people who can't make ends meet, it could collect less in taxes, which would directly and indirectly help those poor people: directly by letting them keep more of their own money and indirectly by allowing those who aren't poor to have more disposable income that they could then use to donate to organizations that help the poor if they were so inclined.
How about couple has two children, a boy and a girl. They've fallen on hard times and so the mother tells the father to take the two children out in the woods lose them because they cannot afford to feed them. The two little lost children find a witch's house in the woods. The witch plans to cook them for dinner, instead they push the witch into her own oven, thus murdering her.
And don't forget poor little Snow White. And Cinderella. And Little Red Riding Hood.
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As more and more people become liberal wackos there is no hope for this country. They are so easily led. They can't see how the liberal majority media is shaping their thoughts. After 8 years of Hillary Clinton we will be done. People are voting with the promise of what Government can do for them with other people's tax money. The government has no money. Only what they take from the workers. If someone has a house and nice car I don't think it's not fair like a liberal thinks. I think I better get to work and make something out of myself.
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People are voting with the promise of what Government can do for them with other people's tax money. The government has no money. Only what they take from the workers.
While true, this preaching is an attempt in futility. You can't compete with handouts and rewards for laziness. It's sad that so many have lost their drive in favor of pitching a tent on the sidewalk, not bathing for a week, and crying jealously about successful companies and their wealthy executives.
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Right now in the US, there is a MASSIVE transfer of wealth going on from the middle classes to the ultra-rich.
Money is being printed on a massive scale and devaluing the savings/earnings of the middle class. The middle classes are not seeing 1c of this money and it is not getting loaned to businesses to generate new jobs.
So, all this discussion about "rising to the top", "equality of opportunity", "socialism" is somewhat moot. The conversation should not really be about the bottom tier vs the middle classes or even the odd few that make the jump from middle class to the '1%'. The conversation should be about the massive bank-job underway in the US right now.
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The program, as it is currently run, is a "reward system" that encourages "poor" people to have more children they cannot afford. I know many people are producing children solely for the U.S Treasury checks that they bring. We need to move away from that type of encouragement, as it is certainly not helping the problem, but rather propagating it.
And who will support the massive Judicial System? And who will fight our wars?
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And who will support the massive Judicial System? And who will fight our wars?
This is a good point
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You are trolling right? This is so far from true, even in the USA, that this statement has to be a troll. Let's not even get to talking about the rest of the world.
edit: Your claim is anecdotal for someone living in Poland. Well, it's wrong. Especially when applied to countries like the USA. I know of at least a dozen people personally that don't own, nor have access to a computer. Let alone the internet. Yeah, this is anecdotal, but it's the absolute truth. And these are people that aren't considered "poor" in the USA. Each one of these people know their own chain of people in the same situation.
95% if not 100% of people in the United States have access to internet. Every public library has dozens of computers anyone can use.
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REICH: …”I am concerned, as I’m sure many of you are, that these jobs not simply go to high-skilled people who are already professionals or to white male construction workers…I have nothing against white male construction workers, I’m just saying there are other people who have needs as well.”
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95% if not 100% of people in the United States have access to internet. Every public library has dozens of computers anyone can use.
Going off that logic literally 100% of the population of the planet earth does. Think about this and be real for a second. There are places, in the USA alone, where people are literally HOURS from THINGS. YES THIS IS STILL A THING. So yeah, if if Joe Random living in PoDunk Desert Town is willing to drive a few hours to use that public internet, then yeah! You are absolutely correct! And I've seen the public library in my area near capacity, or full, every time I have gone during the weekdays. Your logic is bad. BAD LOGIC IS YOUR'S.
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bro, 50% of the world population has never made a single phone call yet. :D
no joke, we forget how relatively good we have it in the west.
We are talking about USA here.
Parker, I am not talking about charity. I am talking about FORCING me to give my money for the sake of "equality". Inequality is natural and good. Survival of the fittest. This is why we are where we are now, as civilization. There is no way you can make everyone happy.
I do not come from poverty, pretty far from it actually. But I do understand it because I was born and raised in one of biggest shitholes in Europe. I was going to school with kids that were starving and ate only because school gave them food. Some of them I consider my friends.
And yes, since I always had more than I needed I did my share of charity. I am by no means devoted to it, it never costed me much. But I think thanks to me some poor kids wear 200$ sweaters that didn't fit me because I became too big :D. That's least anyone can do.
But I shudder at the very thought of forcing anyone to share his wealth for the sake of "common good". We already tried doing that and we failed. I was born after this fucked up system died but my parents lived in that era and you can ask anyone from that generation from southern Europe how that worked out for everybody. Do we really need to go into specifics? It just does not work, never did, never will.
Just like I do not force any girl to fuck me and I do not expect to be major NBA star. Do you really think any girl fucked me because she felt sorry for me or to "give me equal chances"?
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95% if not 100% of people in the United States have access to internet. Every public library has dozens of computers anyone can use.
You are pulling numbers out of your ass. And asses aren't a good place to keep numbers in.
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Yeah... it's easy to make up ridiculous examples, especially if you choose to use logical fallacies (in this case, bifurcation). You make it sound as if the only two alternatives are government checks or starving children. That's just bullshit. There aren't just those two options.
The simple fact is that there are plenty of non-government organizations that are working to feed and provide for the poor. If the government wasn't in the business of handing out checks to people who can't make ends meet, it could collect less in taxes, which would directly and indirectly help those poor people: directly by letting them keep more of their own money and indirectly by allowing those who aren't poor to have more disposable income that they could then use to donate to organizations that help the poor if they were so inclined.
And don't forget poor little Snow White. And Cinderella. And Little Red Riding Hood.
I've been thinking of picking up some extra money, maybe buy a new car and do some upgrades to my house. How many kids do you think I need to get enough government checks to accomplish my financial goals? Do you know which states pay the best because here in Oregon a family of three with little or no income is entitled to $503 per month? I probably spend this much at Starbucks each month. I was hoping for more like a couple of grand on top of what I have coming in already.
ADC and it's counterparts are state run programs, so the amount varies by state.
For those living in Oregon, check this out before you have anymore children: http://www.benefits.gov/benefits/browse-by-state/state/OR (http://www.benefits.gov/benefits/browse-by-state/state/OR)
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The program, as it is currently run, is a "reward system" that encourages "poor" people to have more children they cannot afford. I know many people are producing children solely for the U.S Treasury checks that they bring. We need to move away from that type of encouragement, as it is certainly not helping the problem, but rather propagating it.
Tell those people you know who are having children solely for the State run welfare checks to stop it. The Federal government has no such program unless one is homeless and mentally ill. In Oregon temporary aid (otherwise known as welfare) just a little over $500 a month for a family of three.
If you're thinking of having a few kids for profit, check this out first:
http://www.benefits.gov/
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We are talking about USA here.
Parker, I am not talking about charity. I am talking about FORCING me to give my money for the sake of "equality". Inequality is natural and good. Survival of the fittest. This is why we are where we are now, as civilization. There is no way you can make everyone happy.
I do not come from poverty, pretty far from it actually. But I do understand it because I was born and raised in one of biggest shitholes in Europe. I was going to school with kids that were starving and ate only because school gave them food. Some of them I consider my friends.
And yes, since I always had more than I needed I did my share of charity. I am by no means devoted to it, it never costed me much. But I think thanks to me some poor kids wear 200$ sweaters that didn't fit me because I became too big :D. That's least anyone can do.
But I shudder at the very thought of forcing anyone to share his wealth for the sake of "common good". We already tried doing that and we failed. I was born after this fucked up system died but my parents lived in that era and you can ask anyone from that generation from southern Europe how that worked out for everybody. Do we really need to go into specifics? It just does not work, never did, never will.
Just like I do not force any girl to fuck me and I do not expect to be major NBA star. Do you really think any girl fucked me because she felt sorry for me or to "give me equal chances"?
They may have, ever heard of pity p___y? ;D
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The Federal government has no such program unless one is homeless and mentally ill. In Oregon temporary aid (otherwise known as welfare) just a little over $500 a month for a family of three.
About ten years ago, I worked for a brief time in a bank. I opened accounts and cashed checks for many welfare recipients, some of whom would describe to me their modus operandi. Women would come in with the father of their babies, and we would find out they both maintained separate dwellings simply to qualify for receiving SSI. This is just one example. It was astonishing the stunts they'd pull (not to mention how easy it was), and as a tax payer, it made my blood boil. Their take home was more than mine at the time!
Those SSI funds were drawn on U.S. Treasury checks - FEDERAL FUNDING. As for welfare serving as temporary aid, I'm all for it...but, too many people have made a career out of it, and it's our government's fault for allowing it to reach that point.
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About ten years ago, I worked for a brief time in a bank. I opened accounts and cashed checks for many welfare recipients, some of whom would describe to me their modus operandi. Women would come in with the father of their babies, and we would find out they both maintained separate dwellings simply to qualify for receiving SSI. This is just one example. It was astonishing the stunts they'd pull (not to mention how easy it was), and as a tax payer, it made my blood boil. Their take home was more than mine at the time!
Those SSI funds were drawn on U.S. Treasury checks - FEDERAL FUNDING. As for welfare serving as temporary aid, I'm all for it...but, too many people have made a career out of it, and it's our government's fault for allowing it to reach that point.
The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program pays benefits to disabled adults and children who have limited income and resources. How Do I Apply For SSI?
We do not have an SSI application online. If you would like to apply for SSI benefits for:
An adult with a disability
A child with a disability
A person age 65 and older
http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm (http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm)
Without a doubt, there are those who work the system or outright lie in order to receive SSI, welfare, and other subsidies such as food stamps. Sometimes they get caught and sometimes not. Of course being indigent, when caught they are not able to pay back the illegally gotten monies. Occasionally, they do jail time.
My wife and I are retired people over the age of 65, we both get SSI. Our benefit amount is based on nearly 50 years of paying into the system because we both worked all of our adult lives. Never-the-less, if we had to live on this income alone, it would be a meager life. Fortunately we also have investments and pensions. We live well, but we are hardly living in luxury.
Incidentally, bank employees (tellers) are notoriously underpaid unless they are loan officers or bank managers. You probably could have earned more money working at Starbucks as a barista.
It's easy to blame the government for the wrongs in society. Is the government responsible for criminals as well? Is it the government's fault that there is an ongoing epidemic of drug abuse? There always has been and always will be folks who abuse the system. Perhaps it is also government's responsibility that bodybuilders use and some times die from steroid abuse.
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http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm (http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm)
Without a doubt, there are those who work the system or outright lie in order to receive SSI, welfare, and other subsidies such as food stamps. Sometimes they get caught and sometimes not. Of course being indigent, when caught they are not able to pay back the illegally gotten monies. Occasionally, they do jail time.
My wife and I are retired people over the age of 65, we both get SSI. Our benefit amount is based on nearly 50 years of paying into the system because we both worked all of our adult lives. Never-the-less, if we had to live on this income alone, it would be a meager life. Fortunately we also have investments and pensions. We live well, but we are hardly living in luxury.
Incidentally, bank employees (tellers) are notoriously underpaid unless they are loan officers or bank managers. You probably could have earned more money working at Starbucks as a barista.
Do you have Medicare? In many cases no matter how much you've paid into the system the benefits received in medical care will be more than what been contributed. For the record, I support Medicare. I'd prefer my grandma had medical care.
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Do you have Medicare? In many cases no matter how much you've paid into the system the benefits received in medical care will be more than what been contributed. For the record, I support Medicare. I'd prefer my grandma had medical care.
We both have Medicare. Medicare is automatic when you reach 65 years of age. Medicare is somewhat minimal medical insurance, IMO. In addition to Medicare we purchase supplemental medical insurance at considerable cost per month. Regardless of medical insurance coverage, our out-of-pocket medical expenses last tax year exceeded $8,000. Granted, my wife has a lot of health issues, but this is not uncommon among seniors.
Medicare began in 1965 when I was 21 years old. I have no idea what was deducted from my pay for Medicare premiums all those years ago, but I paid into the system for 44 years. My wife worked until she was 60 when she retired health reasons. She was awarded SSD and two years later Medicare. Since she also worked all of her adult life she paid into Medicare for at least 40 years.
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US= capitalism for the poor ,and socialism for the rich.lol
Question: what do you think about FIAT money?
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http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm (http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm)
Without a doubt, there are those who work the system or outright lie in order to receive SSI, welfare, and other subsidies such as food stamps. Sometimes they get caught and sometimes not. Of course being indigent, when caught they are not able to pay back the illegally gotten monies. Occasionally, they do jail time.
My wife and I are retired people over the age of 65, we both get SSI. Our benefit amount is based on nearly 50 years of paying into the system because we both worked all of our adult lives. Never-the-less, if we had to live on this income alone, it would be a meager life. Fortunately we also have investments and pensions. We live well, but we are hardly living in luxury.
Incidentally, bank employees (tellers) are notoriously underpaid unless they are loan officers or bank managers. You probably could have earned more money working at Starbucks as a barista.
It's easy to blame the government for the wrongs in society. Is the government responsible for criminals as well? Is it the government's fault that there is an ongoing epidemic of drug abuse? There always has been and always will be folks who abuse the system. Perhaps it is also government's responsibility that bodybuilders use and some times die from steroid abuse.
The new scam is SSI and many people are in on it. They even run ads on TV in my area for attorneys helping people get SSI. You have people who have are bipolar getting checks just to sit on their butts all day. Weed heads, heroin addicts, drunks, and just damn lazy people all have something that "prevents them from working". It is huge...
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The new scam is SSI and many people are in on it. They even run ads on TV in my area for attorneys helping people get SSI. You have people who have are bipolar getting checks just to sit on their butts all day. Weed heads, heroin addicts, drunks, and just damn lazy people all have something that "prevents them from working". It is huge...
How do we stop this? Seriously. I believe it is too far gone at this point.
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How do we stop this? Seriously. I believe it is too far gone at this point.
It is too far gone...seriously, if you can get a doctor's note saying that you are "depressed", then you can get SSI Disability. What is your disability? Seriously, I've seen dudes who smoke weed all day, get some tail, smoke weed, play video games, and go to the mailbox and get a check. And they have told me how to do this!
I saw a guy who parked in the handicap parking space at a local store. Dude was driving a Camaro ZL1, top of line Camaro. Looked in his 40s...and he raced his girlfriend to the car...what is his disability?
Another issue, in the state of MD, and I don't know if it is true for your state. But, if a person gets locked up, they can use their SSI Disability card to put money down on a bond...
So if you are a victim of a crime, and that person gets a bond and whoever bonds him out has money on their card and uses it, you are in effect paying the bond for the defendant who committed a crime against you.
Somehow, I believe the politicians are tied into this. If you give people the access to this, the they will vote for you. Also, they spend the money like it's water, so they are putting the money back into the economy...supposedly stimulating it, but it gets taken out of the taxpayers wallet.
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It's easy to blame the government for the wrongs in society. There always has been and always will be folks who abuse the system.
It is easy AND fair to blame the govt for the specific scenario I originally mentioned because it is the GOVERNMENT that set it up that way. People are abusing the system because the govt lets them; just as they pave the way for the people Parker describes.
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It is easy AND fair to blame the govt for the specific scenario I originally mentioned because it is the GOVERNMENT that set it up that way. People are abusing the system because the govt lets them; just as they pave the way for the people Parker describes.
The system has built so much momentum that its impossible to stop the machine even after its plainly obvious its barreling out of control. After decades of spending on social programs, its pretty obvious that such efforts either failed or any benefits derived from them have long since dissipated.
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Don't worry about it gentlemen. As unbelievable as it may sound to you, an economic reset button will be pressed very soon.
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Don't worry about it gentlemen. As unbelievable as it may sound to you, an economical reset button will be pressed very soon.
Ill be on my ranch in Montana if anybody wants to reach me.
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The system has built so much momentum that its impossible to stop the machine even after its plainly obvious its barreling out of control. After decades of spending on social programs, its pretty obvious that such efforts either failed or any benefits derived from them have long since dissipated.
I think the only way to stop it, is a sort of domino effect of appeal to the people. Most of today's people 40 and under grew up with a lack of structure, dyfunction, or parents just couldn't cut it...the government became the parent. If one can somehow harness the mass' wants for a better life and transform that into a desire to get it themselves...then there is a chance.
"One would rather rule in failure, than partner in success"...is a saying, the ability to make people see that they are ruling in failure, and try to get them on the "high" of partnering is success of this nation and their communities.
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I've been thinking of picking up some extra money, maybe buy a new car and do some upgrades to my house. How many kids do you think I need to get enough government checks to accomplish my financial goals? Do you know which states pay the best because here in Oregon a family of three with little or no income is entitled to $503 per month? I probably spend this much at Starbucks each month. I was hoping for more like a couple of grand on top of what I have coming in already.
More silliness.
My point is that I don't think you should be entitled to even a $1, let alone $503 per month. Why? It's quite simple really. I am not responsible for your family, and if you can't afford to feed it that's your problem and not mine.
Why should money get taken from me at the point of the proverbial gun to feed you? Do I owe you anything? What do you think entitle you to the fruits of my labor?
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The new scam is SSI and many people are in on it. They even run ads on TV in my area for attorneys helping people get SSI. You have people who have are bipolar getting checks just to sit on their butts all day. Weed heads, heroin addicts, drunks, and just damn lazy people all have something that "prevents them from working". It is huge...
What l think you mean is SSD (Social Security Disability). Despite what you imagine, SSD benefits are difficult to get. Almost without exception all new claims are denied. An appeal takes at minimum 2 years to be heard.
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More silliness.
My point is that I don't think you should be entitled to even a $1, let alone $503 per month. Why? It's quite simple really. I am not responsible for your family, and if you can't afford to feed it that's your problem and not mine.
Why should money get taken from me at the point of the proverbial gun to feed you? Do I owe you anything? What do you think entitle you to the fruits of my labor?
face.
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More silliness.
My point is that I don't think you should be entitled to even a $1, let alone $503 per month. Why? It's quite simple really. I am not responsible for your family, and if you can't afford to feed it that's your problem and not mine.
Why should money get taken from me at the point of the proverbial gun to feed you? Do I owe you anything? What do you think entitle you to the fruits of my labor?
I think you'd be happier living somewhere other than the U.S. Not sure where since most civilized countries have some socialized programs, but maybe India or some African third world country.
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I think you'd be happier living somewhere other than the U.S. Not sure where since most civilized countries have some socialized programs, but maybe India or some African third world country.
I would be happiest living in the country envisioned by the Founders of this nation, actually. As for what most "civilized" countries do, I'd argue that any country that implements the sort of "socialized programs" you support forfeits the "civilized" label. Why? Because the majority "decided" that they can, at the point of the government's gun, sign checks in my name. Checks which I make sure are cashed because I'm held at gunpoint. But a transaction that occurs at gunpoint isn't a civilized transaction, and those who point a gun to my face to force me to open my wallet, even when they have a fancy badge and act in the name of democracy, are thugs and robbers.
I'll ask you again, under what moral principle do you think that you can seize my means to fulfill your ends?
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I think you'd be happier living somewhere other than the U.S. Not sure where since most civilized countries have some socialized programs, but maybe India or some African third world country.
These programs are ace if access is regulated but unfortunately their abuse has wreaked some good havoc on the system breeding a generation of, often foreign, leeches.
Civilized countries only exist when they're made up of civilized people which are target number one by our fine governments.
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These programs are ace if access is regulated but unfortunately their abuse has wreaked some good havoc on the system breeding a generation of, often foreign, leeches.
Civilized countries only exist when they're made up of civilized people which are target number one by our fine governments.
I agree totally. These programs do not address the underlying problem of dependency. What was designed as a type of last case scenario for people in need has become an acceptable lifestyle. Allowing amnesty to millions of illegals will only stress the system further by increasing the burden on working Americans.
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I agree totally. These programs do not address the underlying problem of dependency. What was designed as a type of last case scenario for people in need has become an acceptable lifestyle. Allowing amnesty to millions of illegals will only stress the system further by increasing the burden on working Americans.
It won't stress it, as it has already been destroyed, ..that's been the sole reason for laissez-faire immigration - it's a weapon, a tool to carve up one huge cake into smaller and weaker parts -> a blubbering stew where the higher ups are chief eternal.
Since decades the western nations have been under an onslaught of "politically correct" terror which serves to mentally break the host nations, minimize self determination and polarize it's people. The enrichment people, aka immigrants, are more often than not stout socialist supporters and vote out a dying middle class.
The Islamists have long used this mechanism to push their own agenda and exported people into oil depending countries as a, sometimes literally, ticking bomb.
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As a beginning point, the U.S. Government needs to stop issuing checks for every kid the "poor" pop out. Set a limit: say, ONE.
QFMFT!!!!! Mandatory sterilization if you have two kids and can not financially support them. If you want govt assistance then how is it not logical? They have proven to be a burden on society so why allow them to continue to procreate?
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QFMFT!!!!! Mandatory sterilization if you have two kids and can not financially support them. If you want govt assistance then how is it not logical? They have proven to be a burden on society so why allow them to continue to procreate?
Show,
Let's say I had a kid I couldn't afford. A little guy from the IRS knocks on your door and says you must fork over 5% of your income to help support my kid. I know you're a good dude and would probably be happy to help.
10 months later, I have another kid...that I still can't afford, and the same IRS guy says they're now going to take 10% of your pay to help support both of my kids. You may question the logic in me having a second child when I couldn't even support one, but you agree.
Then, I keep having a new kid, on average, every 9-11 months, and that IRS prick shows up after every one demanding more money from you for my kids. At what point do you determine enough is enough?
The people in charge of government assistance are not making that call, and they NEED TO!!!
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We are talking about USA, aren't we? Computers have same price everywhere in the world. In fact, they are cheaper in USA than anywhere else. Let's compare USA to Poland, shall we? Poor people in Poland earn about 500$ per month. Cost of living is maybe 80% of what it is here. Do the math. On top of that, I come from the biggest shithole in Poland. And yes, still, people do have computers here. And everyone has access to internet.
So please don't bullshit me. You don't even know the real meaning of "poor". You merely adopted the poverty. I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see iPhone until I was already a man...
Hehe. ;D
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I would be happiest living in the country envisioned by the Founders of this nation, actually. As for what most "civilized" countries do, I'd argue that any country that implements the sort of "socialized programs" you support forfeits the "civilized" label. Why? Because the majority "decided" that they can, at the point of the government's gun, sign checks in my name. Checks which I make sure are cashed because I'm held at gunpoint. But a transaction that occurs at gunpoint isn't a civilized transaction, and those who point a gun to my face to force me to open my wallet, even when they have a fancy badge and act in the name of democracy, are thugs and robbers.
I'll ask you again, under what moral principle do you think that you can seize my means to fulfill your ends?
You don't have the means for fulfill my ends. I guess you should just stop worrying about it, because from your post, you seem a bit obsessed and angry with regards to this subject. I don't have any idea where you can go where you can earn a decent living and not pay any taxes. When you figure that out, let me know.
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Show,
Let's say I had a kid I couldn't afford. A little guy from the IRS knocks on your door and says you must fork over 5% of your income to help support my kid. I know you're a good dude and would probably be happy to help.
10 months later, I have another kid...that I still can't afford, and the same IRS guy says they're now going to take 10% of your pay to help support both of my kids. You may question the logic in me having a second child when I couldn't even support one, but you agree.
Then, I keep having a new kid, on average, every 9-11 months, and that IRS prick shows up after every one demanding more money from you for my kids. At what point do you determine enough is enough?
The people in charge of government assistance are not making that call, and they NEED TO!!!
Let's say you have 10 kids and since you earn a good income you can well afford to take care of them. One day you get fired and can't find another job that pays enough money to support all those kids. Should the government take them from you and exterminate them because you can no longer afford them?
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You don't have the means for fulfill my ends. I guess you should just stop worrying about it, because from your post, you seem a bit obsessed and angry with regards to this subject. I don't have any idea where you can go where you can earn a decent living and not pay any taxes. When you figure that out, let me know.
I don't want to not pay any taxes. There are things which are appropriate and for which government can and should tax people in order to provide them: police, courts and military come to mind.
You say I seem angry. You know, I am and I think I'm justified. Because I see politicians take money from me by a vote, only to then throw it away on commercials against smoking and bank bailouts. Because I see my fellow citizens think they can live of me and elect people to vote to let them do it.
You say I don't have the means to justify your ends; perhaps and that depends on what your ends are. But that's is pussy-footing around the issue. But you support programs that take money from my pocket to give to someone else. What is that, if not using my means to justify your ends?
You can accuse me of being cold-hearted or whatever, because I don't want to be taxed so that the government can then turn around and give people good stamps. But then, I would, voluntarily donate money to a private charity to do the same thing.
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Let's say you have 10 kids and since you earn a good income you can well afford to take care of them. One day you get fired and can't find another job that pays enough money to support all those kids. Should the government take them from you and exterminate them because you can no longer afford them?
So you would compare the probability of your "scenario" to the reality of what Montague and me said? THAT is the real problem. Anytime someone comes up with plausible solutions some dumbass comes up with some 1 in a billion scenario and thinks its comparable.
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Let's say you have 10 kids and since you earn a good income you can well afford to take care of them. One day you get fired and can't find another job that pays enough money to support all those kids. Should the government take them from you and exterminate them because you can no longer afford them?
Again, bifurcation. There are private charities that can help. But beyond that, I will also speak the politically incorrect opinion: If you can't care for your children – the reason doesn't matter – you are a bad parent and you and only you are responsible for what happens to those kids.
As for the government exterminating them? I am fundamentally opposed to that. Nobody can violate the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of the people.
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Let's say you have 10 kids and since you earn a good income you can well afford to take care of them. One day you get fired and can't find another job that pays enough money to support all those kids. Should the government take them from you and exterminate them because you can no longer afford them?
You're describing an entirely different context than the scenario I narrated. I'm referring to people continually choosing to have children they cannot provide for, and the government perpetually handing them money from our incomes.
Your complete deviation from that context tells me that either:
a.) you truly don't understand the point several of us are making in this thread, or
b.) you are deflecting in a futile attempt to defend your stance.
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Avxo and Montague layin' it down. Good work, gentlemen.
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You are trolling right? This is so far from true, even in the USA, that this statement has to be a troll. Let's not even get to talking about the rest of the world.
edit: Your claim is anecdotal for someone living in Poland. Well, it's wrong. Especially when applied to countries like the USA. I know of at least a dozen people personally that don't own, nor have access to a computer. Let alone the internet. Yeah, this is anecdotal, but it's the absolute truth. And these are people that aren't considered "poor" in the USA. Each one of these people know their own chain of people in the same situation.
There are libraries everywhere that have free computer use with nice connections.
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We are talking about USA, aren't we? Computers have same price everywhere in the world. In fact, they are cheaper in USA than anywhere else. Let's compare USA to Poland, shall we? Poor people in Poland earn about 500$ per month. Cost of living is maybe 80% of what it is here. Do the math. On top of that, I come from the biggest shithole in Poland. And yes, still, people do have computers here. And everyone has access to internet.
So please don't bullshit me. You don't even know the real meaning of "poor". You merely adopted the poverty. I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see iPhone until I was already a man...
Exactly! Even the most rural, undeveloped areas in Appalachia have public schools and libraries packed with modern computers and internet access.
Anyone in the United States, regardless of their location has internet access. It may be a little bit less convenient in the worst cases.
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The program, as it is currently run, is a "reward system" that encourages "poor" people to have more children they cannot afford. I know many people are producing children solely for the U.S Treasury checks that they bring. We need to move away from that type of encouragement, as it is certainly not helping the problem, but rather propagating it.
I am with you on this. Feed your kids ramen and mac and cheese and sell the rest of the money off for half price to fund your habits.
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Avxo and Montague layin' it down. Good work, gentlemen.
It's alarming that any tax payer would go to these depths to defend such misappropriation of their tax dollars. Although, it does help explain why America is taking the direction it's headed.
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It's alarming that any tax payer would go to these depths to defend such misappropriation of their tax dollars. Although, it does help explain why America is taking the direction it's headed.
And a lot of people get money they can spend on Budweiser, Camel lights and PS3 games. And hell throw 40 McNuggets and a couple large fries in there too.
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The problem is that we as a society have focused far too long on the delusion that an "equal opportunity" society is a just society.
Until we move to an "equal results" society, things will never improve
This is bar none the most retarded thing that has ever been posted here. If you're American, you're in the wrong country. The only thing anyone deserves is the freedom to succeed if they so choose to. Nobody deserves it handed to them.
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This is bar none the most retarded thing that has ever been posted here. If you're American, you're in the wrong country. The only thing anyone deserves is the freedom to succeed if they so choose to. Nobody deserves it handed to them.
If you want to do welfare stuff, do it right. Provide scheduled meals, healthcare and education. You can't scam on that shit, but you can get cut the fuck off.
Sometimes people do get in a bind.
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91% of public libraries provide free Wi-Fi, and 74% of libraries report use of Wi-Fi increased in 2011; 57% of urban libraries offer broadband speeds greater than 10 Mbps, as compared to 17% of rural libraries.
http://www.ala.org/tools/libfactsheets/alalibraryfactsheet06
100% of public libraries offer free public Internet access
64.5% of public libraries report they are the only free provider of Internet access in their community
90.5% of public libraries offer Wi-Fi
60.2% of libraries reported increased usage of workstations over the previous year
http://ipac.umd.edu/survey/analysis/community-access-public-libraries
There are 8,951 public libraries in the United States.
http://www.ala.org/tools/libfactsheets/alalibraryfactsheet01
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91% of public libraries provide free Wi-Fi, and 74% of libraries report use of Wi-Fi increased in 2011; 57% of urban libraries offer broadband speeds greater than 10 Mbps, as compared to 17% of rural libraries.
http://www.ala.org/tools/libfactsheets/alalibraryfactsheet06
100% of public libraries offer free public Internet access
64.5% of public libraries report they are the only free provider of Internet access in their community
90.5% of public libraries offer Wi-Fi
60.2% of libraries reported increased usage of workstations over the previous year
http://ipac.umd.edu/survey/analysis/community-access-public-libraries
There are 8,951 public libraries in the United States.
http://www.ala.org/tools/libfactsheets/alalibraryfactsheet01
And my ex probably watches about 10 free DVD's a week and she has a decent job.
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Sometimes people do get in a bind.
Of course, and I'm ok helping them, but that's not what the OP was suggesting.
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There are libraries everywhere that have free computer use with nice connections.
Going off that logic literally 100% of the population of the planet earth does. Think about this and be real for a second. There are places, in the USA alone, where people are literally HOURS from THINGS. YES THIS IS STILL A THING. So yeah, if if Joe Random living in PoDunk Desert Town is willing to drive a few hours to use that public internet, then yeah! You are absolutely correct! And I've seen the public library in my area near capacity, or full, every time I have gone during the weekdays. Your logic is bad. BAD LOGIC IS YOUR'S.
I guess this was missed. Not everyone has a public library with free, usable internet, within a two hour drive in the USA.
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I guess this was missed. Not everyone has a public library with free, usable internet, within a two hour drive in the USA.
Where would this be? I live in a town of about 9000 people at this point, and they have a super nice layout here. Free DVDs for rental, get all the new books. Nice wi-fi and and have almost every magazine you can possibly get.
And great furniture and stuff to chill. I have never been anywhere that doesn't have a decent library.
Two hour drive? Where is this?
I am not trying to troll you, but that is crazy.
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And all kinds of CD's to use and about ten different newspapers everyday. Funny thing is I can go get just about any book at any time, but the new release DVD's are not there forever. I was shown a list when I asked about this, and they had so many movies I had never seen on the shelf.
People can even buy some beater computer and go to McDonalds and stuff and get online and get free internet.
And I will not believe it takes two hours to get to fast food places either.
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Where would this be? I live in a town of about 9000 people at this point, and they have a super nice layout here. Free DVDs for rental, get all the new books. Nice wi-fi and and have almost every magazine you can possibly get.
And great furniture and stuff to chill. I have never been anywhere that doesn't have a decent library.
Two hour drive? Where is this?
I am not trying to troll you, but that is crazy.
I lived in New Mexico, right around the SE border in a shit hole at one point. There were a LOT of little towns in the middle of nowhere with absolutely nothing around them out there. The mid-west is the first place that springs to mind with stuff like this.
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So you would compare the probability of your "scenario" to the reality of what Montague and me said? THAT is the real problem. Anytime someone comes up with plausible solutions some dumbass comes up with some 1 in a billion scenario and thinks its comparable.
A guy losing his relatively high-paying job (and most of his ability to support children) is a "one in a billion" scenario to you? Have you not been conscious paying attention since, oh, about the last couple of month's of the Bush presidency until now?
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You don't get it do you? In America everybody has "rights" and "deserve everything".
That person who is searching for porn, thinks that they deserve a million dollars, because they have a right to.
Right now, you are supporting idiots who don't work and claim that they disabled because they self diagnosed themselves as "depressed" or hurt their arm 6 yrs ago, and now are hooked on Oxy. And all they do is sit on their collective asses and smoke weed, do Oxy, and get laid...and get a check cut for $700+.
Hell, many of the dudes who do this are getting more ass than you, while you are going to work, or school...
Some of these dudes are hitting off the wives of men making 6 or 7 figures...
Why, because our system not only allows it, it encourages it. Because these people will vote for the people who will continue the faucet to run. Not for those, who want to the faucet shut off.
And the repubs base want the faucet shut off for the above, but shut on for them. It's a shell game.
You sir are correct. Disability for "depression" should be a crime. All these things that seem ridiculous to logical people are put into place by design. Like you said, give more and more to leeches and they will "EXPECT" it and more from then on. More is never enough. If Bill Gates has billions than godamnit every fucking parasite on welfare thinks they are entitled to the same. Do you remember the interviews with "normal" people the news did when Obummer got elected? These morons saying that Barry was going to pay their mortgages, car loans, etc from his stash. It really is sickening in a sense because the Dems abuse these morons who in effect are mentally disabled. I think that to vote everyone should have to prove they have a minimum IQ of 90. That is low I know but I guarantee you most would fail it.
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I don't want to not pay any taxes. There are things which are appropriate and for which government can and should tax people in order to provide them: police, courts and military come to mind.
You say I seem angry. You know, I am and I think I'm justified. Because I see politicians take money from me by a vote, only to then throw it away on commercials against smoking and bank bailouts. Because I see my fellow citizens think they can live of me and elect people to vote to let them do it.
You say I don't have the means to justify your ends; perhaps and that depends on what your ends are. But that's is pussy-footing around the issue. But you support programs that take money from my pocket to give to someone else. What is that, if not using my means to justify your ends?
You can accuse me of being cold-hearted or whatever, because I don't want to be taxed so that the government can then turn around and give people good stamps. But then, I would, voluntarily donate money to a private charity to do the same thing.
Your opening sentence says everything, "I don't want to pay any taxes."
Good luck with this.
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Your opening sentence says everything, "I don't want to pay any taxes."
Good luck with this.
Except that's not what my opening sentence says. You may want to try reading what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. Here, I'll save you the trouble of having to scroll: "I don't want to not pay any taxes."
I stand by everything I wrote in my post and if you can refute a single thing I wrote (that makes a difference) then I would be happy to read that refutation.
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Except that's not what my opening sentence says. You may want to try reading what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. Here, I'll save you the trouble of having to scroll: "I don't want to not pay any taxes."
I stand by everything I wrote in my post and if you can refute a single thing I wrote (that makes a difference) then I would be happy to read that refutation.
Obviously, I misread what you wrote. Sorry. Your convoluted grammar confused me....you know, the double negative rule.
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Obviously, I misread what you wrote. Sorry. Your convoluted grammar confused me....you know, the double negative rule.
Yes, you seem to be missing the point many people in this thread are making.
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Obviously, I misread what you wrote. Sorry. Your convoluted grammar confused me....you know, the double negative rule.
Yeah, double negatives can be confusing and I usually avoid it for that reason. I used it on purpose, as someone had claimed I don't want to pay any taxes, so directly negating that seemed like a good way to open my post.
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91% of public libraries provide free Wi-Fi, and 74% of libraries report use of Wi-Fi increased in 2011; 57% of urban libraries offer broadband speeds greater than 10 Mbps, as compared to 17% of rural libraries.
http://www.ala.org/tools/libfactsheets/alalibraryfactsheet06
100% of public libraries offer free public Internet access
64.5% of public libraries report they are the only free provider of Internet access in their community
90.5% of public libraries offer Wi-Fi
60.2% of libraries reported increased usage of workstations over the previous year
http://ipac.umd.edu/survey/analysis/community-access-public-libraries
There are 8,951 public libraries in the United States.
http://www.ala.org/tools/libfactsheets/alalibraryfactsheet01
No American people have an excuse not to post on Getbig.
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No American people have an excuse not to post on Getbig.
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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No American people have an excuse not to post on Getbig.
Nonsense. I don't know about you, but I had to have a weigh-in to ensure that I was over 280 with abs, along with submitting proof that my income was over $1,000,000 per year, I owned at least two exotic sports cars and had penthouses (or leased a hotel suite on a yearly basis) in both the East and the West Coast.
I'd say that excludes exactly 12.37% of Americans right there.
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Listen to Walter, people
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Nonsense. I don't know about you, but I had to have a weigh-in to ensure that I was over 280 with abs, along with submitting proof that my income was over $1,000,000 per year, I owned at least two exotic sports cars and had penthouses (or leased a hotel suite on a yearly basis) in both the East and the West Coast.
I'd say that excludes exactly 12.37% of Americans right there.
Ron is issuing waivers for disadvantaged getbiggers. He's also redistributing posts to less active getbiggers.
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What? Hahahaha, are you serious? So I should give my money away just because some fucker was born less intelligent than I am?
Yes. Otherwise there will never be equality. You can offer equal opportunity, but that will only lead to inequality every time.
Some people aren't born into wealth, some people aren't born as intelligent as others, some people don't want to work hard to earn money when other people already have more than they need, etc.
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Yes. Otherwise there will never be equality. You can offer equal opportunity, but that will only lead to inequality every time.
Some people aren't born into wealth, some people aren't born as intelligent as others, some people don't want to work hard to earn money when other people already have more than they need, etc.
What are the consequences of working around mother nature? ???
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The prep is for the end of the QE program and the unprecedented zero interest rate policy of the fed. Just the notion that this program will end has sent long term rates up. This program has also inflated the stock market due to low interest rates and lack of investment options. Irrational exuberance never has a happy ending.
For the most part Americans are financially illiterate and if you ask them what there 401k is invested in they look at you with a blank stare. This is why people get crushed when the market drops in dramatic fashion or they lose money in their bond funds.
This QE program has been flawed form the start. The value of U.S. Treasuries has been maintained by the Fed’s willingness to print dollars to buy more Treasuries thus creating a non market $85 or so billion a month demand for such securities. Remove that demand and the price of Treasuries drops and yields rise. Thus, the value of U.S. Treasuries AND the dollar have been backed by the Fed’s willingness to print dollars to support the dollar because if the U.S. Treasury market collapses, so does the value of the dollar.
The Fed has already created massive economic damage through their QE program (for a part time recovery) for which the economic consequences will be paid if they continue QE or if they stop it. It's a no win at this point and in my opinion the fed will lose control of interest rates one way or another.
^
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What are the consequences of working around mother nature? ???
I don't follow religion
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I don't follow religion
What's religion have to do with anything? ???
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What are the consequences of working around mother nature? ???
Mother Nature always wins.
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http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/10/depressing-geography-debt-collection/7204/
The Depressing Geography of Debt Collection
One of the cruelties about falling deep into debt is that you need a few things to get out of it: maybe a car to commute to the job that will help you pay back your bills, or a subsistence wage that will feed and house your family while you work on that, or a minimum quantity of cash in the bank to cover things like gas to run that car, or medicine to keep you moving.
If debt collectors seize any of those things, repaying debt becomes that much harder. Because of this, states have protections called "exemption" laws that limit what creditors can seize from a family teetering on destitution. These laws have become particularly relevant since the onset of the recession (or the rise of what the National Consumer Law Center calls the "lucrative and fast-growing debt buyer industry").
Not surprisingly, exemption laws vary dramatically depending on where you live, and the NCLC considers many of them to be outdated. In a survey of what these protections currently look like across the country, the NCLC argues that not one state offers all the minimum standards you might need to really survive debt. Some states (Massachusetts and Iowa) are much better than others (Alabama, Kentucky and Michigan).
This is the geography of where your car, your home, and even your household goods, are up for grabs. Yes, that includes cooking utensils, bedding, furniture and appliances:
A) States that ban wage garnishment for most debts. B) States that preserve 90% of debtors wages. C) States that preserve enough wages so that paycheck does not drop below the poverty level. D) States that preserve more than the minimum required by federal law. F) States that protect only the federal minimum.
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http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/10/depressing-geography-debt-collection/7204/
The Depressing Geography of Debt Collection
One of the cruelties about falling deep into debt is that you need a few things to get out of it: maybe a car to commute to the job that will help you pay back your bills, or a subsistence wage that will feed and house your family while you work on that, or a minimum quantity of cash in the bank to cover things like gas to run that car, or medicine to keep you moving.
If debt collectors seize any of those things, repaying debt becomes that much harder. Because of this, states have protections called "exemption" laws that limit what creditors can seize from a family teetering on destitution. These laws have become particularly relevant since the onset of the recession (or the rise of what the National Consumer Law Center calls the "lucrative and fast-growing debt buyer industry").
Not surprisingly, exemption laws vary dramatically depending on where you live, and the NCLC considers many of them to be outdated. In a survey of what these protections currently look like across the country, the NCLC argues that not one state offers all the minimum standards you might need to really survive debt. Some states (Massachusetts and Iowa) are much better than others (Alabama, Kentucky and Michigan).
This is the geography of where your car, your home, and even your household goods, are up for grabs. Yes, that includes cooking utensils, bedding, furniture and appliances:
A) States that ban wage garnishment for most debts. B) States that preserve 90% of debtors wages. C) States that preserve enough wages so that paycheck does not drop below the poverty level. D) States that preserve more than the minimum required by federal law. F) States that protect only the federal minimum.
Never sunk this low....thank goodness.