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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: flinstones1 on September 26, 2013, 11:05:19 AM
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Based on the science we have training to failure is optimal for hypertrophy. The thing is I rarely see most pros train to failure. Didn't dorian train to failure on just about every set?
Personally I have always made my best size gains in the 12-20 rep range. My best strength gains in the 6-8 rep range. Then again if you look at Olympic lifters they have huge huge quads, spinal erectors, and often very well developed traps and delts but rarely do more than 3-5 reps during their training.
I also find it hard to believe training a muscle once per week is really optimal especially for small bodyparts like biceps,calves etc which often recover in 24-48 hours.
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Define failure
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You have to train to failure, however at the moment I am doing 75-80 sets per bodypart not to failure. Wonder which will work?
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You have to train to failure, however at the moment I am doing 75-80 sets per bodypart not to failure. Wonder which will work?
why not do 1000 sets?
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i train as hard as i can on any given day
sometimes im an animal
sometimes i go through the motions
i dont beat myself up about it
if im in animal mode i go all out and maximise the session
if its aint there i try and mix it up a little maybe do circuits
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why not do 1000 sets?
I don't have the energy for that.
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Define failure
I was just about to ask that.
at the end of my chest workouts I can not do 1 single push up, so I would classify that as training to failure but I did not necessarily do every set to failure but the job got done
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MOS doesn't fail.
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Based on the science we have training to failure is optimal for hypertrophy. The thing is I rarely see most pros train to failure. Didn't dorian train to failure on just about every set?
Personally I have always made my best size gains in the 12-20 rep range. My best strength gains in the 6-8 rep range. Then again if you look at Olympic lifters they have huge huge quads, spinal erectors, and often very well developed traps and delts but rarely do more than 3-5 reps during their training.
I also find it hard to believe training a muscle once per week is really optimal especially for small bodyparts like biceps,calves etc which often recover in 24-48 hours.
I agree on all points.
12-20 reps, failing at rep 20 seems to grow me the best. Also everything twice a week if possible.
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without! having that retarde post workout shake :D
:o :o :o
Missed anabolic window!
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MOS doesn't fail.
;D
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You have to train to failure, however at the moment I am doing 75-80 sets per bodypart not to failure. Wonder which will work?
Hi Milos.
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i do on some and not others, on most isolation exercises like bicep curls ,lat raises etc, i go to failure, also to failure on chins and dips. on squats and deads i think when form gets sloppy it's easy to cause injury so i prefer to do a set number of reps, normally in the 8-12 range but not going too close to failure. bench i usually go to one before failure or failure on occasions.
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You have to train to failure, however at the moment I am doing 75-80 sets per bodypart not to failure. Wonder which will work?
You're joking right ???
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I just get in and get out. 20 sets is tops for me during the week. Try to manage time and keep workouts under 1 hour.
Training with a training partner a few years back while competing, hitting drop sets, failure, etc. around 20-25 sets and once home I only had the energy to fix dinner and before bedtime snack.
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Hi Milos.
;D
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Define failure
Not being able to do another complete rep.
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For me usually 3-4 sets per exercise 4-5 exercises per bodypart. Rep range 6-20. Going to failure is not the central theme of my lifting but it happens sometimes. I train alone. I prefer a drop set to forced reps. If I had a good training partner I may do forced reps occasionally.
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I remember hearing that an advanced bodybuilder does his hardest reps in the middle of the set. I agree.
If you have a strong mind-muscle link, your contractions will peak in the middle and start to weaken towards the end of the set.
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I mainly train for strength first so I sparingly train to failure* on most compound lifts and major exercises. It's usually planned, only at certain points in my workout cycle and the last set.
Certain muscle groups can be taken to failure more often than others. Example back(minus the spinal erectors) and legs can take a beating while chest and shoulders need more recovery. For me, personally.
*my definition of failure is: failing to complete a rep
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On the big compound lifts I stop 1 or 2 reps before failure, as forms starts to break down and can cause injuries. Failure happens accidentally on these lifts.
On the smaller isolation movements like lateral raises and curls I am more likely to hit failure.
This illustrates that there two types of failure: technical and total, the latter of which is where the injuries tend to occur.
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I don't have the energy for that.
You should eat more kelp
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You have to train to failure, however at the moment I am doing 75-80 sets per bodypart not to failure. Wonder which will work?
75-80 sets? Whoa. How long are you in the gym?
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75-80 sets? Whoa. How long are you in the gym?
8-9 hours. I saw alot of nice women.
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You have to train to failure, however at the moment I am doing 75-80 sets per bodypart not to failure. Wonder which will work?
''
agreed. only a gay lifter would not train to failure
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''
agreed. only a gay lifter would not train to failure
True = fag0try.
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DEREK ANTHONY trains to failure..... kidney failure ;D
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I remember hearing that an advanced bodybuilder does his hardest reps in the middle of the set. I agree.
If you have a strong mind-muscle link, your contractions will peak in the middle and start to weaken towards the end of the set.
Wow, excellent point..... never really thought of it like that, but that's very true.
I usually stop when I'm not able to contract the target muscle effectively. Yeah, I'll still be able to squeeze a couple more reps out w safe form, but they arent quality reps. Much like you describe
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DEREK ANTHONY trains to failure..... kidney failure ;D
Haha yes
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Who fails to train you're?
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Train to Failure: "I will curl this 150 lb barbell until I cannot possibly do another rep."
Train to Success: "I will curl this 150 lb barbell one more rep than I did in my last workout."
Training to failure works, but it works only for so long. Eventually your sub-conscience figures out what is required -- you simply have to fail to stop the set.
The second method is progressive resistance, which requires you accomplish something positive -- one more rep, etc.
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well just like for everything, any creative endeavour, you dont want to do it half assed or do too much, to obtain the best, most balanced result. Same goes with building muscle. Pure common sense. The best ideal always being to be lean, fit, toned, in order to have the longest life expectancy.
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I was just about to ask that.
at the end of my chest workouts I can not do 1 single push up, so I would classify that as training to failure but I did not necessarily do every set to failure but the job got done
Should of been more specific, I'm talking about concentric failure where one can not complete another rep with the help of someone else. The "repition method" according to the Russians, is optimal for muscle hypertrophy which involves lifting a sub maximal load to failure. On the other hand I think the general conscious on this board is that progression and load (increased weight or reps) is THE most important factor for hypertrophy. And we know that training to failure is not optimal to making the fastest strength gains, no Olympic lifter will ever train to failure.
The lee haney route stimulate don't annihilate.
Another good topic would be is how important is soreness after a workout when it comes to stimulating growth. I know that for weightlifters using exogenous insulin l...peak synergy with insulin/weight training occurs only when soreness is mild, not extreme.I forgot the exact reason why I will have to read about it
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I train like this...when I'm getting tired and the reps are starting to burn..I think In my head "Arnold would get 5 more" and dig deeper......true story.
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Define failure
This is what I would like to know too.
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I train like this...when I'm getting tired and the reps are starting to burn..I think In my head "Arnold would get 5 more" and dig deeper......true story.
top 5 gayest post of 2013
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training to failure is really pointless and abusive to the body. it's about drugs and diet. exercise is really the most insignificant factor in the mechanism.
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Train to Failure: "I will curl this 150 lb barbell until I cannot possibly do another rep."
Train to Success: "I will curl this 150 lb barbell one more rep than I did in my last workout."
Training to failure works, but it works only for so long. Eventually your sub-conscience figures out what is required -- you simply have to fail to stop the set.
The second method is progressive resistance, which requires you accomplish something positive -- one more rep, etc.
biologically it simply doesn't work like that. for it to work like that, your body would also have to produce just a little more anabolic hormones than it did for your last workout lol. ::)
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top 5 gayest post of 2013
And that's why I'm me and you're you ;)
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Based on the science we have training to failure is optimal for hypertrophy. The thing is I rarely see most pros train to failure. Didn't dorian train to failure on just about every set?
Personally I have always made my best size gains in the 12-20 rep range. My best strength gains in the 6-8 rep range. Then again if you look at Olympic lifters they have huge huge quads, spinal erectors, and often very well developed traps and delts but rarely do more than 3-5 reps during their training.
I also find it hard to believe training a muscle once per week is really optimal especially for small bodyparts like biceps,calves etc which often recover in 24-48 hours.
I don't ever train to failure, but I consistently fail to train. Does that count? I mean, is the "train to failure" relationship symmetric?
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Question: Who trains to failure?
Answer: Anyone without a vagina.
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I don't ever train to failure, but I consistently fail to train. Does that count? I mean, is the "train to failure" relationship symmetric?
+1
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it matters fuck all, i hope this helps
where is failure anyway?
with gun pointed at head, the point of failure would change for most.
very stupid term "to failure"
the factor mental readyness isnt accounted for.
x100000000000
also lol @ OTH claiming he couldn't do another pushup at the end of his workout
give me a break
::)
;D
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I don't think it has been proven that training to failure is optimal I don't think it has been proven that its not though either. Is the studies using ped users or non ? I think just good decent common sense training is optimal failure or not. Squats are considered one of your better hypertrophy movements and cant really be trained tell failure really when you get down to brass and tacs a heavy bencher wont really train tell failure either I just can't see common sense wise doing forced reps with 300-400lbs on the bar. They do it in videos and stuff but it seems dangerous as hell to me even with lighter weights in the 300s.
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The only man to exist that is incapable of training to failure.
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(http://www.strength-oldschool.com/uploads/monthly_01_2013/post-300-0-01982000-1358875072.jpg)
(http://oi52.tinypic.com/25gawi1.jpg)
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i agree with chiro and flin 12-20 reps Train every muscle twice a week that helped me to gain mass... u dont have to kill yourself with heavy weight of course sometimes i train heavy but u cant always train to failure its not possible
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or this, if the body is done after the workout, its all good, thats been enough failure.
heavy pump and bit beyond,where you cant lift shit anymore, then go home.
without! having that retarde post workout shake :D
post workout cigarette is better than post workout shake bro i made amazing gains thanks for that
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I train with moderate/light weights, get a good pump and keep it so for 30 min. Never failure. If I feel it's too much I lower the weight to keep the same rythm.
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i train as hard as i can on any given day
sometimes im an animal
sometimes i go through the motions
i dont beat myself up about it
if im in animal mode i go all out and maximise the session
if its aint there i try and mix it up a little maybe do circuits
x2
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Who here even trains at all?
I just thought this was a Schmoe, thong loving website ;D
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There are times I train to failure but in doing so I also keep in mind that I should rest to recover. That's true of anyone that trains although drugs allow (among other "benefits") a far quicker rate of recovery.
I believe Mentzer used the phrase, train to momentary muscular failure. And again, he stressed that recovery was just as important. Train to failure (or not) but remember to rest to recover. And eat. ;D
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Always. I never understood people who don't. Are they just lazy or have a low tolerance of the "pain"?
If training to failure wasn't necessary you could make the argument that you could pick up a weight you can do 12 reps to failure with, pick it up one time, and get the same result. And that argument is valid. Train to failure for results.
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Powerlifters and Olympic lifters don't train to failure but some bodybuilders feel that every time you hit the gym make sure you can't get one more rep. There is a time to go to failure. If you really went to failure every time you lifted you would get burned out in a week or two.
Imagine if a runner in training was told today is 3 mile day. Keep a note book and every 3 mile day you have to beat your previous time. If anyone followed this training protocol they would just burn out completely. The way runners train if they feel good then they burn it. If not a slower run is better than no run.
Training to failure using a note book to log weight, reps and time to complete a workout is a good tool. In reality though how strong can you get if you have been training hard for 10 years? Training to failure is a workout tool but not the only tool. Training for muscular strength endurance for lack of a better description will carry you far and is better than a pure strength protocol for building muscle. If getting stronger was the magic bullet for growth we would all warm up and train for sets of single reps.
Most builders train with volume. So if the first exercise for chest is the bench they might do something like 4 sets of 10 reps. The first set after warm up the imaginary trainer might stop at 10 knowing he could have got 15. The second set he will stop at 10 knowing he probably could have gotten 12. The third he gets 10 and he is really close to failure. His last set he grits his teeth and fails at 9 reps. Some HIT guys will counter why didn't he just use more weight and do one work set to failure? Muscle fibers are completely on or off. Just doing one set to failure doesn't mean all fibers were hit. Using the volume method more muscle fibers are worked.
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Used to always, now prefer more sets of low reps.
The way i see it you can do
X amout of weight for 11 reps to failure
Or
The same weight for 5 sets of 6 reps for a total of 30 reps.
Works far better for me.
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Powerlifters and Olympic lifters don't train to failure but some bodybuilders feel that every time you hit the gym make sure you can't get one more rep. There is a time to go to failure. If you really went to failure every time you lifted you would get burned out in a week or two.
Imagine if a runner in training was told today is 3 mile day. Keep a note book and every 3 mile day you have to beat your previous time. If anyone followed this training protocol they would just burn out completely. The way runners train if the feel good that they burn it. If not a slower run is better than no run.
Training to failure using a note book to log weight, reps and time to complete a workout is a good tool. In reality though how strong can you get if you have been training hard for 10 years? Training to failure is a workout tool but not the only tool. Training for muscular strength endurance for lack of a better description will carry you far and is better than a pure strength protocol for building muscle. If getting stronger was the magic bullet for growth we would all warm up and train for sets of single reps.
Most builders train with volume. So if the first exercise for chest is the bench they might do something like 4 sets of 10 reps. The first set after warm up the imaginary trainer might stop at 10 knowing he could have got 15. The second set he will stop at 10 knowing he probably could have gotten 12. The third he gets 10 and he is really close to failure. His last set he grits his teeth and fails at 9 reps. Some HIT guys will counter why didn't he just use more weight and do one work set to failure? Muscle fibers are completely on or off. Just doing one set to failure doesn't mean all fibers were hit. Using the volume method more muscle fibers are worked.
yes
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Powerlifters and Olympic lifters don't train to failure but some bodybuilders feel that every time you hit the gym make sure you can't get one more rep. There is a time to go to failure. If you really went to failure every time you lifted you would get burned out in a week or two.
Imagine if a runner in training was told today is 3 mile day. Keep a note book and every 3 mile day you have to beat your previous time. If anyone followed this training protocol they would just burn out completely. The way runners train if the feel good that they burn it. If not a slower run is better than no run.
Training to failure using a note book to log weight, reps and time to complete a workout is a good tool. In reality though how strong can you get if you have been training hard for 10 years? Training to failure is a workout tool but not the only tool. Training for muscular strength endurance for lack of a better description will carry you far and is better than a pure strength protocol for building muscle. If getting stronger was the magic bullet for growth we would all warm up and train for sets of single reps.
Most builders train with volume. So if the first exercise for chest is the bench they might do something like 4 sets of 10 reps. The first set after warm up the imaginary trainer might stop at 10 knowing he could have got 15. The second set he will stop at 10 knowing he probably could have gotten 12. The third he gets 10 and he is really close to failure. His last set he grits his teeth and fails at 9 reps. Some HIT guys will counter why didn't he just use more weight and do one work set to failure? Muscle fibers are completely on or off. Just doing one set to failure doesn't mean all fibers were hit. Using the volume method more muscle fibers are worked.
An Olympic lifter trains technique and speed. That's why they do sets that are not to failure. Their type of training is not targeting muscle hypertrophy exclusively. which is the goal for bodybuilders. and most people on this site are more or less bodybuilders, not Olympic lifters right?
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Powerlifters and Olympic lifters don't train to failure but some bodybuilders feel that every time you hit the gym make sure you can't get one more rep. There is a time to go to failure. If you really went to failure every time you lifted you would get burned out in a week or two.
Imagine if a runner in training was told today is 3 mile day. Keep a note book and every 3 mile day you have to beat your previous time. If anyone followed this training protocol they would just burn out completely. The way runners train if the feel good that they burn it. If not a slower run is better than no run.
Training to failure using a note book to log weight, reps and time to complete a workout is a good tool. In reality though how strong can you get if you have been training hard for 10 years? Training to failure is a workout tool but not the only tool. Training for muscular strength endurance for lack of a better description will carry you far and is better than a pure strength protocol for building muscle. If getting stronger was the magic bullet for growth we would all warm up and train for sets of single reps.
Most builders train with volume. So if the first exercise for chest is the bench they might do something like 4 sets of 10 reps. The first set after warm up the imaginary trainer might stop at 10 knowing he could have got 15. The second set he will stop at 10 knowing he probably could have gotten 12. The third he gets 10 and he is really close to failure. His last set he grits his teeth and fails at 9 reps. Some HIT guys will counter why didn't he just use more weight and do one work set to failure? Muscle fibers are completely on or off. Just doing one set to failure doesn't mean all fibers were hit. Using the volume method more muscle fibers are worked.
that's me in a nutshell... warmup, and then warm up some more. make sure your shit is firing on all cylinders. then hit it hard. how many times have you done your last "hard set" and thought...."I had more in me. I wasn't there yet" or something similar ? do an extra set or two at less than maximal effort and wake everything up 100%.
it's a delicate balance..you don't want to try too hard and spend money, and you don't want to be dicking around either..takes a little time to figure out your zone.
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biologically it simply doesn't work like that. for it to work like that, your body would also have to produce just a little more anabolic hormones than it did for your last workout lol. ::)
I have no idea what you are saying.
You get stronger over time, over months, years. You add reps, add weight, add intensity.
Training to failure is a mental exercise. As someone else has mentioned, it depends on your motivation.
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i do 2 sets per exercise,.. the first is very heavy (6-8 reps) and the second is with moderate weight.. both must be to failure..
i train each part once a week including abs and calves..
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that was me, its got to do everything with mental readyness.
sometimes a huge pump sets in and central nervous system is on fire and that triggers mental will and in those sessions one goes way beyond what he usualy does.
too many factors, failure is too much vague term.
i really only go to failure with bodyweight exercises or very near. Dips or push ups.
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An Olympic lifter trains technique and speed. That's why they do sets that are not to failure. Their type of training is not targeting muscle hypertrophy exclusively. which is the goal for bodybuilders. and most people on this site are more or less bodybuilders, not Olympic lifters right?
Max the biggest factor in Olympic lifting is strength and power. There are no weak but skillful Olympic lifters. Technique plays a role but it isn't as big a factor as non Olympic lifters think. Power lifters only train to failure at the end of a cycle. Most training days are far from failure. Why do bodybuilders think every day is failure day?