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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Danimal77 on September 29, 2013, 08:50:46 PM
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Serious question. Why is it that there were like 20 top contenders in the 1990's and today, the quality of competitors is laughable at best? This is more geared towards the posters who were actually around during that time and not people who are new to the sport and grew up on the new pros.
I mean, what are today's pros NOT doing right? What did the pros of the 1990's do, that the current ones aren't? Why is it so fucking hard not to sport a God damn huge distended gut onstage today and have practically NO striations and deep cuts? Why do they all look soft and ready to pop today? For fuck's sake, can't todays pros either pick the brains of the 90's pros to find out what they were doing, taking and how they were training, dieting different to produce those incredible results?
The top 3 would have been the bottom 3 in the mid-late 90's. FACT. WTF?
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Serious question. Why is it that there were like 20 top contenders in the 1990's and today, we the quality of competitors is laughable at best? This is more geared towards the posters who were actually around during that time and not people who are new to the sport and grew up on the new pros.
I mean, what are today's pros NOT doing right? What did the pros of the 1990's do, that the current ones aren't? Why is it so fucking hard not to sport a God damn huge distended gut onstage today and have practically NO striations and deep cuts? Why do they all look soft and ready to pop today? For fuck's sake, can't todays pros either pick the brains of the 90's pros to find out what they were doing, taking and how they were training, dieting different to produce those incredible results?
The top 3 would have been the bottom 3 in the mid-late 90's. FACT. WTF?
It's a generational thing and clearly you (and others like me) are just old timers whose time has passed. In truth is this is classic thinking - how good things were "in the good ole days" with old being the operative word.
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i dont think anyone is creating a base before they start drugs. many will argue this isn't required, but people are starting huge doses of drugs as soon as they start training. there is a guy on this board with 17 inch arms asking if four grams a week is enough test. i never did half that dose in my entire life.
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listen to hazbin
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i dont think anyone is creating a base before they start drugs. many will argue this isn't required, but people are starting huge doses of drugs as soon as they start training. there is a guy on this board with 17 inch arms asking if four grams a week is enough test. i never did half that dose in my entire life.
This, plus everyone is after size !!! The quality of these physiques are laughable !!!! No one suffers any more people have no base, they don't suffer with there diets and everyone thinks drugs are the end all. It's about 4-5 different things.
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It's a generational thing and clearly you (and others like me) are just old timers whose time has passed. In truth is this is classic thinking - how good things were "in the good ole days" with old being the operative word.
So, by that logic, if someone entered a competition today looking like a 1993 Flex Wheeler/Dorian Yates, or a 1994 Shawn Ray, or a 1996 Nasser El Sonbaty, or a 1998 Kevin Levrone, etc, you would tell that competitor that they are living in the past and should transform their bodies to look like today's competitors do?
I am not lamenting on how great things were in the 1970's, or even 1980's, when there were sick competitors (Lee Haney, etc), but I'm looking at the 1990's, when almost everyone of the top guys were so advanced in the sport. The sport has NOT progressed. It has regressed to PRE-Arnold/Sergio days imo.
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So, by that logic, if someone entered a competition today looking like a 1993 Flex Wheeler/Dorian Yates, or a 1994 Shawn Ray, or a 1996 Nasser El Sonbaty, or a 1998 Kevin Levrone, etc, you would tell that competitor that they are living in the past and should transform their bodies to look like today's competitors do?
I am not lamenting on how great things were in the 1970's, or even 1980's, when there were sick competitors (Lee Haney, etc), but I'm looking at the 1990's, when almost everyone of the top guys were so advanced in the sport. The sport has NOT progressed. It has regressed to PRE-Arnold/Sergio days imo.
It's really quite simple, people are doing it for fame/being noticed. Back in the day,body builders hustled, Levrone, Coleman, Ray, Wheeler, they did the things they did for the LOVE of the sport-take Shawn Ray, when Bodybuilders didn't have a sponsorship, he took a 3x5 card put his information on it, and sent it to all the supplement companies saying he was a pro, and he was available for any type sponsorship/or seminars. No one was paying them, or had a magic formula to be successful, they went out and did it no matter how crazy the concept was. But the key was they were inspired by the generation before them, and wanted to emulate the past champions, like Oliva, Zane, Haney and of course Arnold.
The current crop of pros today seem really spoiled, with social media, it became more of how do I "top the next Instagram". Do you think Dorian would be flashing $100 dollar bills to the camera? Showing off his new ride? His "Gucci collection"? Would Lee Haney do that?-I think not.
But that is the culture now, where back in the day, Manfred Hoebrel, was one of the few that first used synthol for his arm size, now you got some attention-starved individual, in every state-Hell an Egyptian dude even made the Guinness book of world records for the biggest arms, a guy whose worked out for 4 years but can't diet (Genova) plus all the photo-shop used for pictures now.
But like Hazbin has stated, the love and the respect for the culture has changed, people want to look good and feel better about themselves (who doesn't). But the approach of hard work, and paying your dues has gone to the wayside.
(The pics go from then to now)
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lol that is not a fair picture of Steve..... I know this thread is geared towards guys who have been in the sport since the 90's and grew up with those pro's... But I will add my 2 cents. I would have to disagree with saying that its the generational thinking thing though and I don't mean that disrespectful at all im just saying in my opinion the pro's were a lot better in the 90's. And I am 24 and got in to working out heavily and learning about bodybuilding when dexter Jackson was the Mr.olympia. He actually was a great Mr.olympia for his size and had the crazy cuts. But I just wanted to basically say being some one from the new era of body building fans and wanting to enhance my physique and get deeper in the sport. I would say my motivation is guys like dorian and kevin levrone over Phil heath or kai greene. kai greene's motivational thinking though and some of his speeches I really do value though. He does have some great information no matter what people think of his physique or past.
I think guys are trying to come in just to big and they are sacrificing conditioning. That is my opinion I don't know exactly if it is due to drugs or due to judges awarding the bigger physique that brings in the crowd more. I mean look at all the hype around Big ramy if some one was crazy conditioned like ramy is big it wouldn't have given that guy the same fame if that makes sense. People just want big bodybuilders and the bodybuilders now days are sacrificing condition to get to that point. Not to mention a genetic lottery was won by the fans to see so many gifted bodybuilders in the 90's. It could be a once in body building history type of event that happen.
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So, by that logic, if someone entered a competition today looking like a 1993 Flex Wheeler/Dorian Yates, or a 1994 Shawn Ray, or a 1996 Nasser El Sonbaty, or a 1998 Kevin Levrone, etc, you would tell that competitor that they are living in the past and should transform their bodies to look like today's competitors do?
I am not lamenting on how great things were in the 1970's, or even 1980's, when there were sick competitors (Lee Haney, etc), but I'm looking at the 1990's, when almost everyone of the top guys were so advanced in the sport. The sport has NOT progressed. It has regressed to PRE-Arnold/Sergio days imo.
Perhaps one can only take muscle development so far before it crosses the line into ridiculousness. As I have stated many times, bigger not necessarily better, sometimes it is just bigger. Like a pendulum, I think/hope we will see bodybuilders in the future who strive for symmetry and definition as opposed to bulk. As long and the judges reward massive bodybuilders with physiques that can only be obtained through the abuse of PEDS, the pendulum won't begin swinging back. Just look at the monetary prizes the under 212 class received in the Olympia. These paltry sums were little more than an insult to those fellows some of who had incredible builds; and in many cases more pleasing to the eye then the big dudes.
My idols were the bodybuilders of the 1960's and 1970's because that's the era when I became interested and more involved in bodybuilding. I readily admit to living in the past with respect to what I think a well built physique should be like. In those days, the average person weighed a lot less then they do today. Our whole society has become obese including bodybuilders.
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Because now it is all about indiscriminate mass with no real emphasis on balance and proportionality. You rarely get a guy backing off on a body part to look more balanced, it is just size at all costs.
The judges perpetuate this quest by primarily rewarding the biggest. Where would Bob Paris place now?
The 212 class has arguably made it worse by giving the judges a pass to only look at mass monsters in the higher division.
Too much test, insulin when they diet, way too much GH...
And don't forget that even at the highest echelons of the pros they can get bunk drugs. They know this so often will be forced to take more as an insurance policy.
The only way to change it is to alter the judging criteria. And they don't have the balls to do that.
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Because they are assisted like never before.
Generations become more and more lazy with the time, they find a preparator early in their career and rely on him for every aspect.
In consequence, they know nothing about diet, drug, training etc... and above all they don't know how their body react which is the most important aspect.
How can a coach know better than you how you feel during the prep? Do you feel flat or too full? A real bodybuilder should know perfectly how to adapt his diet or drug use every time.
One of the best example his Jay and his 20 years of competition who needs his guru to learn he should eat a burger with fries because he feels flat 1 hour before the prejudging? Same case with Dennis Wolf and his guru in 2010 when he almost asked him to put the right amount of food in his mouth. ::)
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Too many people have become weaker and lack class, knowledge and style.
Our over saturated times lack general focus so if you aren't immensely driven and self sufficient you will be a dull drone.
There are probably way more bodybuilders around who are "better" than the old timers but aren't into bodybuilding as a competitive sport.
Dorian was better! :D
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i dont think anyone is creating a base before they start drugs. many will argue this isn't required, but people are starting huge doses of drugs as soon as they start training. there is a guy on this board with 17 inch arms asking if four grams a week is enough test. i never did half that dose in my entire life.
This x 1000! Same here! I trained my fucking ass off every time I walked in the gym!
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Machines? Juicing at too early of an age?
Better drugs in the 90's?
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Also, do not forget that drugs and contest prep was taken to far more extremes then it is today. Back in the 90s they were literally dieing to get into condition and took things to great extremes, drugs included. These days, it does not seem that the current PROs want to go to that level of extreme.
How many died for us in the 90s?
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It's really quite simple, people are doing it for fame/being noticed. Back in the day,body builders hustled, Levrone, Coleman, Ray, Wheeler, they did the things they did for the LOVE of the sport-take Shawn Ray, when Bodybuilders didn't have a sponsorship, he took a 3x5 card put his information on it, and sent it to all the supplement companies saying he was a pro, and he was available for any type sponsorship/or seminars. No one was paying them, or had a magic formula to be successful, they went out and did it no matter how crazy the concept was. But the key was they were inspired by the generation before them, and wanted to emulate the past champions, like Oliva, Zane, Haney and of course Arnold.
The current crop of pros today seem really spoiled, with social media, it became more of how do I "top the next Instagram". Do you think Dorian would be flashing $100 dollar bills to the camera? Showing off his new ride? His "Gucci collection"? Would Lee Haney do that?-I think not.
But that is the culture now, where back in the day, Manfred Hoebrel, was one of the few that first used synthol for his arm size, now you got some attention-starved individual, in every state-Hell an Egyptian dude even made the Guinness book of world records for the biggest arms, a guy whose worked out for 4 years but can't diet (Genova) plus all the photo-shop used for pictures now.
But like Hazbin has stated, the love and the respect for the culture has changed, people want to look good and feel better about themselves (who doesn't). But the approach of hard work, and paying your dues has gone to the wayside.
(The pics go from then to now)
Solid, solid post. I feel like one of the few left on planet Earth without a facebook, instagram, twitter, etc.
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Conditioning has been sacrificed for size. Some individuals aren't designed to carry as much mass as they are.
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in the 90s the amounts of anabolics and diuretics were high,maybe higher than today,but the hgh and slin were a lot lower,and they all had a better foundation,nobody takes the time to build a foundation nowadays and therefore the muscle quality is lower.
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1) No solid foundation (which should by all rights take years)
2) following too many people's advices
3) All using the same shit, which for the most part IS shit
4) not enough discipline thinking that the drugs alone will do it for them (for the most part) ~ can't imagine what kind of money they are spending on prep... you can kind of tell when they don't place well and the prize money is shit. It's not like they are thinking "damn, I worked so hard" ~ It's probably more along the lines of "Damn, I spent three times that ammount on dope" ~
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In the past you had to be genetically gifted, otherwise on a small drug regimen one would look just average.
Today there are so many drugs and information available that all the Dan Hill's can be something.
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Conditioning has been sacrificed for size. Some individuals aren't designed to carry as much mass as they are.
JOSE RAYMOND is perfect example he would still look plenty big at stage weight 185/190,at 212 and who know's carbed up he's say 215/220 that's huge at 5'3 or so but he loses lines and shape is bodyparts just fall together no flow ,he looked great as amateur 160's/170's he won every weight class as amateur.
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i dont think anyone is creating a base before they start drugs. many will argue this isn't required, but people are starting huge doses of drugs as soon as they start training. there is a guy on this board with 17 inch arms asking if four grams a week is enough test. i never did half that dose in my entire life.
this this this !
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Stupid discussion.
Your answer is INSULIN!
End of thread.
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JOSE RAYMOND is perfect example he would still look plenty big at stage weight 185/190,at 212 and who know's carbed up he's say 215/220 that's huge at 5'3 or so but he loses lines and shape is bodyparts just fall together no flow ,he looked great as amateur 160's/170's he won every weight class as amateur.
What can be done to remedy the situation? Raymond knows he's not going to go anywhere unless he puts on a ton of mass. The amateur system might be better. At least in the amateurs they have classes.
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What can be done to remedy the situation? Raymond knows he's not going to go anywhere unless he puts on a ton of mass. The amateur system might be better. At least in the amateurs they have classes.
thanxs for pulling that up archer,point proven better lines,lean,seperated and about 25 lbs ago and still pretty thick,but yeah still that size would not put a dent in 212's unfortunately.u can tell by his head/face alone the difference.flex lewis is perfect fot that class as is henry they didn't grow ugly by getting bigger,henry was a middleweight with plenty to work with,flex was a lightheavy so gaining slowly worked as they filled in the class.
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Stupid discussion.
Your answer is INSULIN!
End of thread.
Pretty much this. Has nothing to do with when someone starts drugs, rather it's what they are using and abusing for years that creates this horrible look. Some of the guys from the 90's started using in their teens, but never ended up like the guys who currently use excess amounts of slin and GH.
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late 80's and early 90's were the mega dosing years, late 90's on were the insulin era,,, look back over old pics and you can see conditioning as a whole slowly start to wash away to where its at now, because at the moment only one or two guys know how ( or maybe they dont and just have the genes to pull it off?)to come in peeled while relying on heavy slin/gh use
best examples of this phenomenon is when they are standing totaly relaxed.. 80's and 90's didnt even need to tense or hit a shot, they were nails just standing there doing nowt... now take phill heath, the best of the current crop condition wise, nothing happens till the shot is hit... lower down the pecking order nothing much happens even when fully tensed.
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ironicaly, the slef denial is interesting.
they lie to themselves the cuts gonna come back with diet, but they wont.
i have a frend who turned pro,now retired(disillusioned), he started the gh and bit slin,and he never again got his back to be dry, and hell, not even the brachialis to pop out somewhat.
i mean,hell, the brachialis should be visible on a pro when they flex things.
its similiar to when one is shredded and starts to eat like shit, the fat will come back somewhat slow, layered, wont be obvious too fast.then boom, one day, not a line in sight anymore.
talked to another retired pro and asked him where the guts are coming from.
he told me,"well, go and try to be 260lbs on stage and see if you can pull it off without a gut".
interesting thing is ,that guy is on hrt or hrt*2 these days ,just to function, and he looks his best he ever did imo.no gut, quite the size, and conditioning looks no more than 2-3 weeks out of stage year round.
yep,, because it isnt forced size...... forced through excess eating and extreme insulin/gh/ped abuses...
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your preaching from the same hymn book as my self as ive said in many other threads.....
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lol that is not a fair picture of Steve..... I know this thread is geared towards guys who have been in the sport since the 90's and grew up with those pro's... But I will add my 2 cents. I would have to disagree with saying that its the generational thinking thing though and I don't mean that disrespectful at all im just saying in my opinion the pro's were a lot better in the 90's. And I am 24 and got in to working out heavily and learning about bodybuilding when dexter Jackson was the Mr.olympia. He actually was a great Mr.olympia for his size and had the crazy cuts. But I just wanted to basically say being some one from the new era of body building fans and wanting to enhance my physique and get deeper in the sport. I would say my motivation is guys like dorian and kevin levrone over Phil heath or kai greene. kai greene's motivational thinking though and some of his speeches I really do value though. He does have some great information no matter what people think of his physique or past.
I think guys are trying to come in just to big and they are sacrificing conditioning. That is my opinion I don't know exactly if it is due to drugs or due to judges awarding the bigger physique that brings in the crowd more. I mean look at all the hype around Big ramy if some one was crazy conditioned like ramy is big it wouldn't have given that guy the same fame if that makes sense. People just want big bodybuilders and the bodybuilders now days are sacrificing condition to get to that point. Not to mention a genetic lottery was won by the fans to see so many gifted bodybuilders in the 90's. It could be a once in body building history type of event that happen.
Dex represents the 90s bbers. Dude started out competing at like 135.
It's not just generational, what you and all of us see is what is reflective of today's society. Being a slacker is celebrated. Not putting in the time and work. I myself have seen guys who haven't been to the gym, yet they have gone out and bought steroids, and GH, and brag about what their cycle will be.
This is based from the Baby Boomer Mentality---to always feel good and happy, who the hell wants to work for it or suffer? The easiest way to a big physique is to hop on drugs.
Take that mentality, plus the drugs that are probably more widely available, but are apparently less quality, and you have shittier physiques. Also, the gene pool is not like it was in the 90s. Hell, Flex didn't get his Pro card on the first try. I think Phil Heath did, and so did Rich Jones...and we have raved about them. So, it shows you just how the quality has changed.
Also to further back up my statements, Ronnie Coleman himself famously stated, "Everybody want to be a bodybuilder. But nobody wants to lift heavy ass weights"
Everybody wants XYZ today, but nobody wants to put the time and effort in (and suffer) to get the desired results. Half assin' it suffices in this world...
Yeah like Kobe and Lebron are compared to Jordan, please
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Dex represents the 90s bbers. Dude started out competing at like 135.
It's not just generational, what you and all of us see is what is reflective of today's society. Being a slacker is celebrated. Not putting in the time and work. I myself have seen guys iwho haven't been to the gym, yet they have gone out and bought steroids, and GH, and brag about what their cycle will be.
This is based from the Baby Boomer Mentality---to always feel good and happy, who the hell wants to work for it or suffer? The easiest way to a big physique is to hop on drugs.
Take that mentality, plus the drugs that are probably more widely available, but are apparently less quality, and you have shittier physiques. Also, the gene pool is not like it was in the 90s. Hell, Flex didn't get his Pro card on the first try. I think Phil Heath did, and so did Rich Jones...and we have raved about them. So, it shows you just how the quality has changed.
Also to further back up my statements, Ronnie Coleman himself famously stated, "Everybody want to be a bodybuilder. But nobody wants to lift heavy ass weights"
Everybody wants XYZ today, but nobody wants to put the time and effort in (and suffer) to get the desired results. Half assin' it suffices in this world...
Yeah like Kobe and Lebron are compared to Jordan, please
Thats why Dex is the hardest
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Thats why Dex is the hardest
does it very low key no smoke and mirrors,u see him x weeks from show time in full top and sweats no sneek peaks old school.
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bb was more popular in the 90's
so there was a deeper more competetive field.
internet kind of exposed bb for what it is and turns people away from it.
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I miss the good ole days of late 80's early 90's bodybuilding and weightlifting. I remember buying my first tub of Weider protein and some Cybergenixs back in the day. Todays bodybuilding truly does not compare, dont get me wrong I love how crazy big these fuckers get on all the drugs. But the sleek slim waists and striations of yester year were awesome. 94 Arnold Andreas munzers conditioning was sickening!!!! I miss those days, thats when I wanted to be a bodybuilder, the days of Crazee Wear Otomixs and Rag tops! Yeah Buddy!!!
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speaking of cybergenics, anyone remember this italian stallion ;D 8)
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speaking of cybergenics, anyone remember this italian stallion ;D 8)
YES and he was leveled in nj at the beach at popular day/nitespot so goes the legend....nj has some of the greats Italian/americans gaspari,santoriello,galanti,baretta,dente,,,,me lol..
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From a guy that has been following bodybuilding since I was about 15 (1977), here's my two cents. In the quest for more size and conditioning, more and more drugs are being used. Combine that with a greatly diminished number of genetically gifted people competing today, and bodybuilding has devolved pretty fast. As has been mentioned, obtaining a good base of muscle size before slamming the slin and going on super stacks of anabolics was probably a factor as well.
Looking at the video posted by dj181 is a good reminder of what real bodybuilding should be about. Franco Santoriello displayed a great combination of size, shape and conditioning. His physique flowed beautifully, with great conditioning and seperation, with not a hint of a bloated belly to be seen.
Speaking of seperation, todays pros, while having low bodyfat when in shape, seem to lack that deep seperation within each muscle group, as well as between different muscle groups. I'm sure rampant abuse of petroleum products has a lot to do with that...
I think bodybuilding pretty much reached it's zenith by the mid nineties for displaying the best combination of size, shape, and conditioning. From there, the emphasis should have been to strive for more refinement and seperation, if anything.
I think I'm being pretty objective, and not "generational". I'd love to see things start evolving again.
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Stupid discussion.
Your answer is INSULIN!
End of thread.
blame the big bad insulin.
nevermind the misuse/overuse of test, insane amounts of food, and the fact that legit negma parabolan isn't around.