Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: theworm on October 15, 2013, 07:15:36 PM
-
I mean, how much of these pros physiques are attributed to lifting weights?
If jay didn't lift, I bet he would still be muscular. Just wonder how much lifting adds to it.
I remember one pro back in the 90s,was it " mystery pro" in muscle mag, he basically took tons of roids and barely worked out.
-
Juivce doesnt stimulate the muscle to grow... you put a guy on grams of gear and zero exercise and hell be just as fat and out of shaoe as anyone else.
the gear just helps the muscle repair faster.... its no substitute for hard work.
-
Juivce doesnt stimulate the muscle to grow... you put a guy on grams of gear and zero exercise and hell be just as fat and out of shaoe as anyone else.
the gear just helps the muscle repair faster.... its no substitute for hard work.
I disagree. I think you would look much better taking a gram of test a week and not lift vs lifting natural
-
I disagree. I think you would look much better taking a gram of test a week and not lift vs lifting natural
pipe dreams dude. You wouldnt look great natural, but at least you wouldnt be fat and out of shape.
-
Studies on HIV people on test show they lose body fat and gain lean body mass, that's in HIV people who don't work out...
You take a gram of test a week and you'll lose fat and gain lbm, just depends on how much I quess
-
I mean, how much of these pros physiques are attributed to lifting weights?
If jay didn't lift, I bet he would still be muscular. Just wonder how much lifting adds to it.
I remember one pro back in the 90s,was it " mystery pro" in muscle mag, he basically took tons of roids and barely worked out.
well... muscle growth requires a few things.
#1- stimulus/a reason to grow. (trauma)
#2- food/nutrients/amino acids, ect... to repair trauma.
#3- adequate hormones to properly utilize the food/nutrients/aminos
just giving a guy steroids, even in LARGE doses won't turn them into a bodybuilder.
just giving a guy great amounts of food/nutrients/amino acids won't turn them into a bodybuilder.
just working out won't turn a guy into a bodybuilder.
there has to be a convergence of the 3.
does it matter HOW you train? probably not as much as we've been told in the magazines for decades.
training is VERY VERY SIMPLE. There are NO 'magic formulas'. You stimulate the fibers.... that's all. (in the simplest terms I can come up with).
give muscle a reason to grow... give damaged muscle enough nutrients to recover... give enough androgens/anabolics to let the cells take advantage of the nutrients.
-
Studies on HIV people on test show they lose body fat and gain lean body mass, that's in HIV people who don't work out...
You take a gram of test a week and you'll lose fat and gain lbm, just depends on how much I quess
not enough to make you look like you workout. Its not some magic compound, havent you ever seen gym goers on grams of gear that look like total shit?
-
i'd guess at the very least, you'd want to bang 24/7. So that's considered cardio, and lifting, if you're into those BBWs.
(Bbws) "Big Beautiful Woman" (commonly abbreviated as BBW) is a euphemism for an obese woman and is frequently used in the context of fat fetishism. ...
-
Never tried not working out 8)
-
well, even when i'm not training, whether it's from me being burned out from training (going full throttle for a couple months, plus working 12hr days takes a toll), or if i'm sick or injured or just too busy, I still take my steroids... maybe not as much, but I always take them so I don't lose as much muscle as I would if I went off AND wasn't training.
-
I mean, how much of these pros physiques are attributed to lifting weights?
If jay didn't lift, I bet he would still be muscular. Just wonder how much lifting adds to it.
I remember one pro back in the 90s,was it " mystery pro" in muscle mag, he basically took tons of roids and barely worked out.
No you dont need to lift weights just inject 1 gram of test each week, sit on the couch eat some pizza and beer watch the football game and in a few months you will be a big muscular beast.
-
I think you can put some muscle even without "proper bodybuilding" training.
I took a 1 month holiday, no weights but I played some sports pretty much everyday, hiking, tennis, cycling, basketball etc... plus lots of food! Sports make me hungry as hell, maybe more than lifting, and I believe I actually put on muscle in that period.
1g a week and an active lifestyle can maybe lead to a nice "athlete" physique. Won't try it though!
-
Science:
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men.
Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Bhasin D, Berman N, Chen X, Yarasheski KE, Magliano L, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Bross R, Phillips J, Sinha-Hikim I, Shen R, Storer TW.
Source
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, CA 90059, USA. SBHASIN@UCLA.EDU
Abstract
Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses of testosterone on body composition, muscle size, strength, power, sexual and cognitive functions, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), plasma lipids, hemoglobin, and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.
So basically yes, 2 grams of test on a not-shitty diet will do as much or more for your physique as lifting naturally. Time to up the dose.
-
??? ??? Sexual function doesnt change at any dose ::) ::)
-
??? ??? Sexual function doesnt change at any dose ::) ::)
You care to elaborate on this? Or have I missed the memo that said that reputable scientists with a large body of work to their name can now officially be refuted by rolleyes?
-
well... muscle growth requires a few things.
#1- stimulus/a reason to grow. (trauma)
#2- food/nutrients/amino acids, ect... to repair trauma.
#3- adequate hormones to properly utilize the food/nutrients/aminos
just giving a guy steroids, even in LARGE doses won't turn them into a bodybuilder.
just giving a guy great amounts of food/nutrients/amino acids won't turn them into a bodybuilder.
just working out won't turn a guy into a bodybuilder.
there has to be a convergence of the 3.
does it matter HOW you train? probably not as much as we've been told in the magazines for decades.
training is VERY VERY SIMPLE. There are NO 'magic formulas'. You stimulate the fibers.... that's all. (in the simplest terms I can come up with).
give muscle a reason to grow... give damaged muscle enough nutrients to recover... give enough androgens/anabolics to let the cells take advantage of the nutrients.
Tell my calves that training is simple and there are no magic formulas lol.
-
Science:
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men.
Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Bhasin D, Berman N, Chen X, Yarasheski KE, Magliano L, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Bross R, Phillips J, Sinha-Hikim I, Shen R, Storer TW.
Source
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, CA 90059, USA. SBHASIN@UCLA.EDU
Abstract
Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses of testosterone on body composition, muscle size, strength, power, sexual and cognitive functions, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), plasma lipids, hemoglobin, and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.
So basically yes, 2 grams of test on a not-shitty diet will do as much or more for your physique as lifting naturally. Time to up the dose.
Damn, that's over 17 pounds of lean body mass in 20 weeks on just 600 mg test!
So basically the answer is yea, you can add some mass and not work out, so if sone took 1-2 grams a week they prob put on a solid 30 based on the research above
-
Tell my calves that training is simple and there are no magic formulas lol.
all u gotta do is stimulate them.
my calves grow best with I use stooooopid heavy weight and little mini-bouncy reps. that 'nice, long, full-range-of-motion' rep bullshit would have my calves down to 15inches! lol
-
This thread and its question is beyond stupid. If you don't understand the requirement of muscle stimulus for it to grow, you're just plain out to lunch. Extra test can aid to slow tissue wasting, but it alone will not produce a bodybuilder's physique.
-
I mean, how much of these pros physiques are attributed to lifting weights?
If jay didn't lift, I bet he would still be muscular. Just wonder how much lifting adds to it.
I remember one pro back in the 90s,was it " mystery pro" in muscle mag, he basically took tons of roids and barely worked out.
Jay would prob be above average size even without gear. But then you have guy's like Flex, who are nothing without it.
-
A couple things...
1. drop the machines. The whole thing that muscles only know tension is a fucking bullshit myth. Again trial and error I have used machine for years, one workout with dumbbell and three days later I can see noticeable changes in my physique. DROP MACHINES! Cables are not machines though..
2. high anabolic- low dose test cycle works
true, on a pro level stack you can get by with machines....but there is a big difference between a gym rat on 2 grams of gear, and an ifbb pro on grams of gear and 15iu gh per day. There bodies are a lot more sensitive to weight training than you they can get away with being lazier.
-
Juivce doesnt stimulate the muscle to grow... you put a guy on grams of gear and zero exercise and hell be just as fat and out of shaoe as anyone else.
the gear just helps the muscle repair faster.... its no substitute for hard work.
Untrue...theres a study I can dig up if you want where bedridden men on 300mg added more muscle & strength than naturals who trained.
Of course these were likely untrained men, but it's incorrect to say that taking juice without training won't lead to any body composition changes
-
This thread and its question is beyond stupid. If you don't understand the requirement of muscle stimulus for it to grow, you're just plain out to lunch. Extra test can aid to slow tissue wasting, but it alone will not produce a bodybuilder's physique.
So despite there being numerous credible studies in highly accredited scientific journals that have shown this effect, in old men, young men, sick men, healthy men, it is 'beyond stupid' because you disagree with it?
Let me guess: you're also republican, think Obama is the antichrist, and believe in the rapture?
I'll give you your last point: they will never give you a BB physique. Mostly because, unlike actively working out, AAS just make everything bigger equally. So the shape would be different indeed. But adding a shitload of mass on 2 g weekly is easy as fuck, even without training. Image how easy it really is while on a good diet, training AND 2 g/w.
-
More 'lies' by those crazy scientists with their steroid-pushing agendas:
_____________________
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Jan;284(1):E120-8. Epub 2002 Sep 24.
Effects of an oral androgen on muscle and metabolism in older, community-dwelling men.
Schroeder ET, Singh A, Bhasin S, Storer TW, Azen C, Davidson T, Martinez C, Sinha-Hikim I, Jaque SV, Terk M, Sattler FR.
Source
Department of Medicine, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles 90033, USA.
Abstract
To determine whether oxymetholone increases lean body mass (LBM) and skeletal muscle strength in older persons, 31 men 65-80 yr of age were randomized to placebo (group 1) or 50 mg (group 2) or 100 mg (group 3) daily for 12 wk. For the three groups, total LBM increased by 0.0 +/- 0.6, 3.3 +/- 1.2 (P < 0.001), and 4.2 +/- 2.4 kg (P < 0.001), respectively. Trunk fat decreased by 0.2 +/- 0.4, 1.7 +/- 1.0 (P = 0.018), and 2.2 +/- 0.9 kg (P = 0.005) in groups 1, 2, and 3, respectively. Relative increases in 1-repetition maximum (1-RM) strength for biaxial chest press of 8.2 +/- 9.2 and 13.9 +/- 8.1% in the two active treatment groups were significantly different from the change (-0.8 +/- 4.3%) for the placebo group (P < 0.03). For lat pull-down, 1-RM changed by -0.6 +/- 8.3, 8.8 +/- 15.1, and 18.4 +/- 21.0% for the groups, respectively (1-way ANOVA, P = 0.019). The pattern of changes among the groups for LBM and upper-body strength suggested that changes might be related to dose. Alanine aminotransferase increased by 72 +/- 67 U/l in group 3 (P < 0.001), and HDL-cholesterol decreased by -19 +/- 9 and -23 +/- 18 mg/dl in groups 2 and 3, respectively (P = 0.04 and P = 0.008). Thus oxymetholone improved LBM and maximal voluntary muscle strength and decreased fat mass in older men.
PMID: 12388137
_________________
More untrained men who got a lot stronger, leaner and more muscular just by taking oxy and not training and with no change in diet.
-
Steroids are just the finishing touch.
Yep. ;D
-
I've never even used steroids but I've read some of those studies. You guys should know better.
-
Fascinating development in this topic.
Posters that say: "yes, this happens" quote science.
Posters that say: "no, this can never be" quote feelings or start calling names.
Why? Is it too painful to have to admit that 80% of your mass comes from a vial?
-
I will freely admit that AT LEAST 50% of my muscle 'mass' comes directly from injecting hormones into my bum cheek/delt/quad. I would probably weigh 180 at 10% (6ft 1") without steriods.
However, a lot of lifting weights, eating certain foods, made it all possible.
-
I will freely admit that AT LEAST 50% of my muscle 'mass' comes directly from injecting hormones into my bum cheek/delt/quad. I would probably weigh 180 at 10% (6ft 1") without steriods.
However, a lot of lifting weights, eating certain foods, made it all possible.
And that's fine. Hell, I'm starting a cycle next week. But some seem really delusional about it. "Sure I'd be 250 ripped at 5'3" without roids too!". ::)
-
I will freely admit that AT LEAST 50% of my muscle 'mass' comes directly from injecting hormones into my bum cheek/delt/quad. I would probably weigh 180 at 10% (6ft 1") without steriods.
However, a lot of lifting weights, eating certain foods, made it all possible.
Don't forget ownings.
...ownings are know add more muscle mass.
-
Don't forget ownings.
...ownings are know add more muscle mass.
Hahaha yes Calvin, luckily there is a ceiling limit to ownage mass otherwise I would have to drive a custom car ;D
-
So despite there being numerous credible studies in highly accredited scientific journals that have shown this effect, in old men, young men, sick men, healthy men, it is 'beyond stupid' because you disagree with it?
Let me guess: you're also republican, think Obama is the antichrist, and believe in the rapture?
I'll give you your last point: they will never give you a BB physique. Mostly because, unlike actively working out, AAS just make everything bigger equally. So the shape would be different indeed. But adding a shitload of mass on 2 g weekly is easy as fuck, even without training. Image how easy it really is while on a good diet, training AND 2 g/w.
Agree!
These are the same people who just repeat the dogma that you need test. I did a var only cycle with excellent results and have done deca 400 and test 100 cycles with amazing results and no sides.
-
Agree!
These are the same people who just repeat the dogma that you need test. I did a var only cycle with excellent results and have done deca 400 and test 100 cycles with amazing results and no sides.
Yes but DECA is not dick friendly for many me included so YMMV.