Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Sculpter on January 01, 2006, 08:33:26 PM
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Tomorrow is my day of dread :(.I shall be returning to my weight training after close to 4 yrs of not touching a weight (April 19th would have made it 4 yrs!).Stupid me is gonna start back w/leg training day tomorrow at that.The soreness to come makes me fear tomorrow lol.As to the muscle soreness I guess in a way i'm lucky.After the 1st time I get the muscle soreness I never do get it again.I can do forced reps,up/down the rack/singles,forced reps etc.Anything yet never get the soreness again after I first start.Other ppl tell me they get sore all the time.Am I unusual or is there other ppl like me?
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Well, sore is good, to a degree. Just stretch the muscles out the next day and drink lots of fluids/eat lots of protein.
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What you're describing is typical. You'll get soreness in all muscles, if you're using the most effective exercisess for each that work for you.
Best thing for the first 1-2 workouts is not to do a full routine, rather do half the number of sets and just go close to failure-no cheats or forced reps. You'll still be sore but it won't be as bad.
For the second workout for the same muscle, wait until all soreness is gone to return to training, however many days that takes.
After that you should still get mild soreness by choosing effective exercises and adding forced reps, partials, rest-pause reps, cheats or negatives. In other words, use exercises you respond to and then work very hard, to failure and sometimes to beyond failure.
Also you can switch exercises from time to time, change the order you do them, do supersets, or tri-sets, etc.
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I think it's an individual thing, I get sore in some musclegroups and some I don't, legs I usually feel 2 days after but it's not that bad.
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from what i hear... good stretching before and after lifting can prevent the pain the next day
but i like the pain, it feels gooooooooooooooooood :)
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Stretching might help a little, but if the exercise is rigorous and the muscles unacustomed to it, the soreness will be very noticable.
Doing a partial workout the first 1-2 workouts is the best way to still hit the muscles but not overdo it, until the muscles aclimate to the exercise.
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Ha ha ha.I asked ppl. if they get sore all the time after training & they come back trying to tell me how to train or how to lessen the soreness.I first picked up a weight in 1978/79. I know how to train & do & will completely accept the soreness to come.My point was that I never do get a hint of soreness after the 1st time soreness.
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Resist mightily your need to be a dink; has it occured to you that sharing info and experiences here benefits others? You're welcome anyway.
If you're asking that question and rarely if ever getting sore, then you're obviously doing some things wrong. Instead of smugness you might want to be open to listening instead of telling us how smart and experienced you are.
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One more note on muscle soreness: Related to supplementation, a lot of supplements really speed recovery and duration of soreness. I find a good creatine mix like Celltech or some of the Max Muscle products will cut soreness duration in half, which really helps. Personally, I stay away from the testostorone boosting supplements because they mess up my routine and motivation when I am not taking. Other supplements to me are fair game though, like Lipoic acid and creatine, your aminos, quality protein powder, fish oils, aminos, etc.
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also, your nervous system is not used (as it was) to lifting heavy so i would go easy for the first several weeks. immerse yourself gradually into longer sets/heavier weigths. i took a 5-year hiatus from lifting and when i came back it took me a year to get back to the point where i had been before. muscle memory is amazing, i bet other guys in the gym thought i was juicing. ;D i did suffer an upper back/neck injury though, i guess all the gains were just too much, too rapid for my nervous system (i did not tear/pull a muscle but irritated a nerve in my neck). this is why i would be extremely cautious and not overdo it. good luck.
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your nervous system is not used (as it was) to lifting heavy so i would go easy for the first several weeks.
Getting injuries as you've mentioned isn't due to the nervous system, it's due to ligaments, tendons and muscles that aren't yet fully aclimated to the stress of lifting. Take a week or two to get up to full speed both to avoid injury and to get over the soreness.
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Gee pumpster you should really take a pill & calm your emotions down.I stated I just found it funny that ppl. weren't answering to the main reason for my question.If I had wanted to know how to get rid of soreness I would have asked that question.I just wanted to know if there were others like me that do not suffer the soreness after the initial soreness they experience.If I wanted to attack a person on the net I would simply just tell them I think that they are a dink as you did to me but I have no time for childish games such as that.Was it the hahaha at the beginning of the post that was a threat to your manliness or ego?Its just the internet & I never meant any disrespect to anyone here, the hahaha was just what I was thinking to myself while typing as to the amusement I got from how the question was answered.
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You should thank anyone bothering to help. Instead all you've done in each post is bitch.
The other thing is to actually pay attention to content, since you clearly don't know if you're asking the question. So what if there's more info? That could be helpful.
Your new years' resolution can be learning some manners.
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Anyway, about that topic...you know, the one the thread's about?...
Soreness is an OK thing; in my experience it feels good as hell to be sore after a heavy workout, because you know you did some real work. On the other hand, being sore can also mean you're out of shape or you haven't stretched good enough after lifting. Either way, just go at it, and if you get sore, no big deal.
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from what i hear... good stretching before and after lifting can prevent the pain the next day
but i like the pain, it feels gooooooooooooooooood :)
::)
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Tomorrow is my day of dread :(.I shall be returning to my weight training after close to 4 yrs of not touching a weight (April 19th would have made it 4 yrs!).Stupid me is gonna start back w/leg training day tomorrow at that.The soreness to come makes me fear tomorrow lol.As to the muscle soreness I guess in a way i'm lucky.After the 1st time I get the muscle soreness I never do get it again.I can do forced reps,up/down the rack/singles,forced reps etc.Anything yet never get the soreness again after I first start.Other ppl tell me they get sore all the time.Am I unusual or is there other ppl like me?
I would pick up the intensity if I wasn't getting sore. Lactic acid is the reason for your soreness. Lactic acid is a "waste" created by your muscles from burning oxygen and amino acids as fuel to work.....or to lift the weights. Concentrate on form and pick up the intensity. My legs get sore easily, but my arms didn't for a long time. I changed some lifts, really made sure I pounded the s**t out of my arms and they got sore and I started seeing some gains...not that I'm saying you need to be sore to get gains. I am just saying I noticed them when I picked up the intensity and changed some lifts. Everyone needs to do that every so often to mix things up. Keep your muscles guessing.
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I feel your pain..I am just getting back into it. For the last year I have battled cancer and a knee joint problem.
I find it beneficial to take creatine, L-Glutamine, Multi Vitamin and REALLY re-structure my diet. Soreness is minimal.
Just my $0.02..first two weeks work on getting the main muscles up to par to lift weights. For my first two weeks I worked on Cardio (condition my heart) and "core muscle" type exercises. Sit ups, crunches, lower back extentions, Un weighted dips, and light weight stuff so that my muscle "memory" kicks in and my joints / tendons get ready to handle the HEAVY lifting I now demanding of them.
Besides - Sit ups, crunches, lower back extentions, Un weighted dips
Add -
Dumbell incline bench / flys (works stabilizers as well)
Dumbell Lunges
Seated leg press
Leg extentions
Dumbell Military Press
Lat Pull downs
Bi / Tri work
2-3 weeks of this should get your body "warmed up" to the consistant demand it has now having to cope with. During this time track your diet so you learn what works for YOU.
Then...up to heavy weights.
PS - getting your diet perfected and learning what works best to YOUR body..may take time. Be patient.
I have also found stepping on a scale is discouraging. Get BF Calipers (most gyms will measure you free..just use the same person each time)..use them every two weeks.
Weight may be the same but the caliper will show you that though you weigh the same..you lost 4 lbs of fat but, gained 7 lbs of muscle. (just an example..no flaming on the exact #'s)
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We used to use DMSO
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Lactic acid is the reason for your soreness.
That is a myth.
DOMS is not the result of lactic acid .
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That is a myth.
DOMS is not the result of lactic acid .
Excess lactic acid in the bloodstream causes muscles to fatigue quickly.....hence relating to muscle soreness or stiffness. It may not be the direct reason for it "scientifically", but it is directly involved.
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There's no absolute answer. Soreness is a fact, period.
Bottom line, lay off those muscles totally until the soreness is gone.
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I KNOW.......I am just crabby from dieting and felt like arguing...... :-\
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Excess lactic acid in the bloodstream causes muscles to fatigue quickly.....hence relating to muscle soreness or stiffness. It may not be the direct reason for it "scientifically", but it is directly involved.
I just dont see how fatigue and soreness are related.
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There's no absolute answer. Soreness is a fact, period.
Bottom line, lay off those muscles totally until the soreness is gone.
High frequency training, which I think u advocate requires that u work through soreness sometimes. so what gives?
Also, I dont see why you would advocate cheats, partials and other techniques for intensity and also high frequency training. :-\
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Good questions. Superficially it looks contradictory, but there are some nuances:
High frequency training, which I think u advocate requires that u work through soreness sometimes. so what gives?
Two types of soreness-that created after resuming training following a layoff, and that felt after regular workouts, when in shape.
Soreness when in condition is not overwhelming-nothing like the soreness encountered when first resuming training. Regular, effective training should lead to slight to moderate soreness that is felt the following day and is entirely or almost gone the 2nd day after the workout.
Soreness after a layoff can be crippling. Wait for as long as necessary for all soreness to go away before resuming. Consider doing partial workouts with lessened intensity those first few workouts to mitigate inevitable soreness.
why you would advocate cheats, partials and other techniques for intensity and also high frequency training.
High frequency training using high intensity techniques on some sets can be done without problem as long as volume is low to moderate. The effect is analogous to a sprinter doing a number of short sprints in training. Short high-intensity bursts don't wear out the system in the same ways that volume does, IMO. Volume's akin to long-distrance running.
Anyway, those are my experiences. I think it makes sense.
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I think quiting lifting till all soreness goes away is wrong. I have done many comebacks (nothing like the one now) and even though I am sore as hell the next day ro two days after I just decrease the weight and work through it. Usually after just a few sets I am okay. I would think if you quit completely just because you are sore, when you come back again you are going to be sore again and then you have to qut again and so one. I think training lighter and working through the soreness is best. You should know your body and just how far you can go before sustaining a real injury. If I am doing 405 when I come back and I am sore then you bet the next workout I am usuing 315 or 225 to warmup more. Cause I know I am to sore to do the 405.
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I *used* to work through soreness-the usual BB mentality that more is better. After years of this I realized that there's no benefit to forcing the muscles through it. Soreness following a long layoff's a one-time thing that doesn't return again whether you rest or train.
Progress occurs over the intermediate and long-term term-months or more; a missed workout or four's meaningless.
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There is no reason to not work out if you are still sore, the increased blood flow usually relieves the soreness in a few minutes and gets the body used to working through barriers. Not working through soreness just because you are sore is a mental limitation not a physical limitation.
SG ::)
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Not working through soreness just because you are sore is a mental limitation not a physical limitation.
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Actually the biggest mental limitation is the familiar BB compulsion to lift no matter what.
While sore all you need is light movement to get the blood moving-doesn't have to be weights at all and nothing intense. Or lift heavily using other muscles.
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I'm not argue about this, cause I think maybe for some it might work resting all that time. What I do know is how I did it and I didn't rest a week. I just lowered the weight. And it seemed to work good enough for about 20 years where there wasn't too many if anyone stronger than me in any gym I went to around the world. I like doing what works for me not others. We are all different and our bodies react differently for better or for worse.
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Agree with Onlyme and the SupplementGuy just about 100%. Starting light enought, the next workout (in a couple of days) allows an increased blood flow and can actually help heal and aid the recovery of a sore muscle group. This can insure steady progress and gain in most any lift. Resting too long between workouts because of soreness is counterproductive in the long run. Some guy's (and me) will do 50 reps or so with a empty bar in the bench, if there's soreness from that exercise the day before, just to bring healing blood into the area. This works very well from my experiences with myself and others. Good Luck.
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Thinking outside of the box and getting away from an adherence to things strictly by the book, all that matters is activity & getting the blood moving-blading, bike, jogging, etc.
Taking a broader perspective, absolutely no need to be stuck with lifting at all times. Diverse activities are mentally beneficial & create a more athletic look. ;)
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Thinking outside of the box and getting away from an adherence to things strictly by the book, all that matters is activity & getting the blood moving-blading, bike, jogging, etc.
Taking a broader perspective, absolutely no need to be stuck with lifting at all times. Diverse activities are mentally beneficial & create a more athletic look. ;)
That's cardio stuff you are talking about now, not lifting. Are you suggesting jogging instead of lifting weights? The activities you are describing should be done on non-lifting days.
SG ::)
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A narrow conception of training. I prefer open-mindeness and freedom from self-imposed perceptions. There are MANY avenues available, not simply ones you've decided for us within the realm of lifting.
I used to confine myself to the same preconceptions when i was in my teens. Been there, done that. Experience and observation tend to enlighten. :D
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Pumpster: With all due respect and acknowledgement of you experience, WTF are you talking about?
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Maybe you should ask yourself that question-you're stuck with the same preconceptions i had lifting as a teenager. I did then exactly what you still do, and it made no difference.
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You should be as free as the wind and imagine you are a bird, high in the sky looking down upon yourself, duly toiling through to reach your lofty goals.
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That's cardio stuff you are talking about now, not lifting. Are you suggesting jogging instead of lifting weights? The activities you are describing should be done on non-lifting days.
SG ::)
Pumpster you didn't answer the question.
SG ::)
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"If you are in water you should become the water"
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BOARDS DONT HIT BACK
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That which does not kill you makes you stronger also ;).Seriously I agree w/SupplementGuy & onlyme in that you can or will be able to train the muscles again within a few days but maybe not at full capacity you usually can w/the soreness.It's what i've always done.Here's a story for an example of my experience w/soreness & how I never get sore after the first time soreness.Remember this is "my" personal experience & the way my body works.
When I was 16/17 yrs old I weighred 175 lbs.I traineed w/a fellow that was maybe 4-5 yrs. older than me.One day after we had worked out the evening before he was telling me how sore he was.I told him what I stated here how I never get sore again after the first initial soreness.Well he had me do a leg workout!I used 175 lbs. & did reps w/it from 20 reps all the way down to a single repetition.1st set 175lbs x 20 reps,2nd set 175 lbs x 19 reps,3rd set 175 lbs x 18 reps etc. all the down to just 1 rep.We also did the usual thigh curls,lunges,extensions etc. but just regular straight set style.Anyway, the next day he was sore as hell yet I just had a dull ache in my muscles, nothing that would hinder me from doing any daily activities etc.
As onlyme said & I feel the same way....what works for me may be unusual & maybe won't work for you because everyone is different.Theres a few things that are freaky about me & my body in regards to weight training but i'm not complaining, makes it easier for me :).To each their own.