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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: JOHN MATRIX on November 06, 2013, 08:14:31 AM
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The recent virginia gov election, although won by the dem, shows some disturbing indicators for the democratic party.
Mcauliffe was consistently up by double digits in polls and was expected to 'win easily' by 10-12 points. His conservative opponent was said to symbolize the recent so called disasters of the tea party and republicans in general, who are supposed to be on the verge of extinction and irrelevency according to the media. Virgina has also been trending left in recent major elections. Lastly, mcauliffe outspent his opponent 10-1, having collected massive sums from out of state donors including Bloomberg, and had rallies held for him by no less than bill and hillary clinton, and president obama.
Yet despite all these factors, on election night he ended up trailing most of the evening, before catching up and winning by barely 2 points. Incredibly, the libertarian 3rd party candidate who was funded by a major obama donor in order to bleed votes from cuccineli, had his name on the ballot and got 7% of the vote, votes which otherwise would have given cuccinelli the win.
What we see here is the dem party going all out with fundraising, endorsements, efforts, and massively outspending the opponent, including funding and getting the name on the ballot of a 3rd party candidate, I mean totally blew their load on this election, and STILL just barely squeaked past someone considered a weak candidate from a dying party on the verge of irrelevency. Pretty telling if you ask me. Oh and lastly, fuck the democrats ;D
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sour grapes much
you Repubs need to get better at suppressing the vote
that was their only hope in Virginia (i.e. low voter turnout) and Repubs werent even ashamed to admit it in public
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sour grapes much
you Repubs need to get better at suppressing the vote
that was their only hope in Virginia (i.e. low voter turnout) and Repubs werent even ashamed to admit it in public
Care to actually acknowledge anything in the above post?
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I did
your very last sentence
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I'm glad he won. It's just going to be another lib ran state that will go into the shitter. They have no one to blame but themselves but I'm sure they will find someone!
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I did
your very last sentence
Still crickets... ;D
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Had Cuch gotten more money and a few breaks he should have won by the same margine he lost. This was headed to a blow out until Obamacare began to tank. Its more worrisome for Dems then it should be for Repubs. He lost and thats not good ever but the dems ran two candidates and out spent him...
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Once again the Tea Baggers are tone deaf to the will of the people, even in their own party
If Virginia Repubs would have had a primary they would have chosen a better candidate and in fact ANYONE could and should have beat Mcauliffe but instead they gave the nomination to one of the most vile and poisonous teabaggers in the state and the usual donors said smell you later. Repubs had no business losing that election yet the teabaggers snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Had Cuch gotten more money and a few breaks he should have won by the same margine he lost. This was headed to a blow out until Obamacare began to tank. Its more worrisome for Dems then it should be for Repubs. He lost and thats not good ever but the dems ran two candidates and out spent him...
he got no money because many people in his own party didn't want him to the be candidate
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Once again the Tea Baggers are tone deaf to the will of the people, even in their own party
If Virginia Repubs would have had a primary they would have chosen a better candidate and in fact ANYONE could and should have beat Mcauliffe but instead they gave the nomination to one of the most vile and poisonous teabaggers in the state and the usual donors said smell you later. Repubs had no business losing that election yet the teabaggers snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
He lost because an obama donor funded a 3rd party spoiler to bleed his votes. The amazing thing is is that if sarvis wouldn't have been on the ballot, cuccinelli would have WON. pretty crazy when you think about it, considering this was supposed to be a victory lap for the dems.
More people voted against mcauliffe than voted for him. With just the two real candidates on the ballot, cuccinelli wins 52-47.
. The implications of this election are very ominous for the dems
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Fast Terry underperformed and it shows ObamaCare is going to DESTROY the dems in 2014
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He lost because an obama donor funded a 3rd party spoiler to bleed his votes. The amazing thing is is that if sarvis wouldn't have been on the ballot, cuccinelli would have WON. pretty crazy when you think about it, considering this was supposed to be a victory lap for the dems.
More people voted against mcauliffe than voted for him. With just the two real candidates on the ballot, cuccinelli wins 52-47.
. The implications of this election are very ominous for the dems
same could be said about Cuccinelli and the libertarian candidate was also basically a protest vote
Mcauliffe was eminently beatable except when faced with teabagger
Dems are certainly going to face challenges in 2014 and 2016 but it's not going to be from teabaggers
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He lost because an obama donor funded a 3rd party spoiler to bleed his votes. The amazing thing is is that if sarvis wouldn't have been on the ballot, cuccinelli would have WON. pretty crazy when you think about it, considering this was supposed to be a victory lap for the dems.
More people voted against mcauliffe than voted for him. With just the two real candidates on the ballot, cuccinelli wins 52-47.
. The implications of this election are very ominous for the dems
That's not true at all.
Spoke to Sarvis last night... He is a true Libertarian.
He took votes from both of those clowns... If you think otherwise, then you are just fooling yourself.
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It is common knowledge that those who voted libertarian were far more likey to vote for the tea party guy over the liberal democrat. The big-government socialist libs are pretty much the polar opposite of libertarian ideology. Sarvis took far more votes from cuccinelli than he took from mcauliffe. Without savis on the ballot as a spoiler, cuc actually would have WON
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That's not true at all.
Spoke to Sarvis last night... He is a true Libertarian.
He took votes from both of those clowns... If you think otherwise, then you are just fooling yourself.
Well - VA will have plenty of fun w Clintons' bag man. The libertarians wont say dick while mccaullife does his far left bs. This is why I rarely if ever vote 3rd party or like the liberaltarian party - they are a sham and never do dick to try to stop the leftist cabal.
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It is common knowledge that those who voted libertarian were far more likey to vote for the tea party guy over the liberal democrat. The big-government socialist libs are pretty much the polar opposite of libertarian ideology. Sarvis took far more votes from cuccinelli than he took from mcauliffe. Without savis on the ballot as a spoiler, cuc actually would have WON
Well he didn't... So there.
Well - VA will have plenty of fun w Clintons' bag man. The libertarians wont say dick while mccaullife does his far left bs. This is why I rarely if ever vote 3rd party or like the liberaltarian party - they are a sham and never do dick to try to stop the leftist cabal.
Perhaps, but if you keep doing this... Then there will never be any alternative except the shit and more shit.
I just wanted Sarvis to get 10%... So the libertarians would be allowed in the debates next time, but no... People like you say "It's a wasted vote."
You get the government you deserve I guess.
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Sarvis was funded by an Obama bundler. He was a left wing plant and many fell for it.
Now they get the far left corrupt lib. Great job as always by libertarians who now wont be heard from again.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/05/revealed-obama-campaign-bundler-helping-fund-libertarian-in-tight-va-gubernatorial-race
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Sarvis was funded by an Obama bundler. He was a left wing plant and many fell for it.
Now they get the far left corrupt lib. Great job as always by libertarians who now wont be heard from again.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/05/revealed-obama-campaign-bundler-helping-fund-libertarian-in-tight-va-gubernatorial-race
You'll forgive me for not really buying what the blaze is selling.
I don't believe a word of what Glenn Beck says about anything... This is a guy who was a liberal, then a "conservative", and is now a "libertarian".
Uh... No.
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You'll forgive me for not really buying what the blaze is selling.
I don't believe a word of what Glenn Beck says about anything... This is a guy who was a liberal, then a "conservative", and is now a "libertarian".
Uh... No.
The posted the link to FEC filings.
Why else you think Obama wanted Cuuch to lose? Because he was the first guy to go after ObamaCare and brought it to the court.
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The posted the link to FEC filings.
Why else you think Obama wanted Cuuch to lose? Because he was the first guy to go after ObamaCare and brought it to the court.
I can't believe you guys are still talking about ObamaCare.
Let's be clear... It sucks, but it's the law of the land and it ain't going NOWHERE.
And do you know why?
It's the Republicans own damn fault... They had YEARS to come up with a good healthcare plan after they shot down Clinton in the 90s and never did shit.
So now, when Obama has all the cards, they want to fight against it without any real alternative... Yeah... that makes sense.
Look, ObamaCare sucks ass, but it's something... which is more than the Republicans did for years!
Now you want to blame Obama for your loss in Va? Let me be clear... if the Republican didn't suck, there wouldn't have been an alternative to worry about.
But noooo... Your bud Cuccinelli is a complete Uber Right Wing Shill and loses... You can try to blame libertarians, but really, it's the Republicans own damn fault and you full well know it.
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Fine - when McCaulliffe tries to enact the same type of gun laws in VA like Cuomo did - as he promised to do - lets see all those principled libertarians trying to stop it. They wont. Same w the black box in cars nonsense he is proposing. Libertarians wont say a fucking word.
Most libertarians politically are full of shit and only show up on election day as a spoiler for one party of the other.
The GOP sucks, sure, no doubt - but when your actions serve solely to put the far left lib in office who is corrupt as the day is long like McCauliffe, principles all of a sudden to me sounds nothing but bs.
I can't believe you guys are still talking about ObamaCare.
Let's be clear... It sucks, but it's the law of the land and it ain't going NOWHERE.
And do you know why?
It's the Republicans own damn fault... They had YEARS to come up with a good healthcare plan after they shot down Clinton in the 90s and never did shit.
So now, when Obama has all the cards, they want to fight against it without any real alternative... Yeah... that makes sense.
Look, ObamaCare sucks ass, but it's something... which is more than the Republicans did for years!
Now you want to blame Obama for your loss in Va? Let me be clear... if the Republican didn't suck, there wouldn't have been an alternative to worry about.
But noooo... Your bud Cuccinelli is a complete Uber Right Wing Shill and loses... You can try to blame libertarians, but really, it's the Republicans own damn fault and you full well know it.
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"Incredibly, the libertarian 3rd party candidate who was funded by a major obama donor in order to bleed votes from cuccineli, had his name on the ballot and got 7% of the vote, votes which otherwise would have given cuccinelli the win."
This article makes the assumption that at least 80% of Libertarians would have voted Republican.
Libertarians want the govt to stay out of their business... and while the dems are socialist punks, the repubs do love to stick their nose in people's business when it comes to abortion, gay rights, and a lot of other issues. And Repubs love war, which libertarians hate. Repubs love to lock up drug offenders, while dems and libertarians are selling each other pot.
So I guess what I'm asking is, "Do Libertarians choose Republican when they have to choose (D) or (R)?"
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I'm glad he won. It's just going to be another lib ran state that will go into the shitter. They have no one to blame but themselves but I'm sure they will find someone!
.
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I'm glad he won. It's just going to be another lib ran state that will go into the shitter. They have no one to blame but themselves but I'm sure they will find someone!
Why do you stay in California if liberal run states suck so much, Joe?
I mean, you seem to be doing well in that terrible liberal run state right?
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McAuliffe was a flawed candidate. He's a dick.
hugely flawed is probably still an understatement yet he wins over a teabagger
Repubs literally gave this election away to the Dems
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"Incredibly, the libertarian 3rd party candidate who was funded by a major obama donor in order to bleed votes from cuccineli, had his name on the ballot and got 7% of the vote, votes which otherwise would have given cuccinelli the win."
This article makes the assumption that at least 80% of Libertarians would have voted Republican.
Libertarians want the govt to stay out of their business... and while the dems are socialist punks, the repubs do love to stick their nose in people's business when it comes to abortion, gay rights, and a lot of other issues. And Repubs love war, which libertarians hate. Repubs love to lock up drug offenders, while dems and libertarians are selling each other pot.
So I guess what I'm asking is, "Do Libertarians choose Republican when they have to choose (D) or (R)?"
Once again, it is unanimously agreed that sarvis took more votes from cuc than mcaulif. If there were only 2 names on the ballot, and even half the sarvis voters voted for cuc, he would have won.
We can stop pretending that even a single one of them would have voted for a liberal democrat, or that a vote for sarvis translated to anything other than a vote for mcauliffe.
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Once again, it is unanimously agreed that sarvis took more votes from cuc than mcaulif. If there were only 2 names on the ballot, and even half the sarvis voters voted for cuc, he would have won.
We can stop pretending that even a single one of them would have voted for a liberal democrat, or that a vote for sarvis translated to anything other than a vote for mcauliffe.
Uh... I voted for Sarvis.
I would have voted for McAuliffe... So... Yes.
I am 1 of those you say doesn't exist.
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Uh... I voted for Sarvis.
I would have voted for McAuliffe... So... Yes.
I am 1 of those you say doesn't exist.
Do you even remember who mcaullife was during the Clinton and presidency and dirty deals that he was involved in?
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Do you even remember who mcaullife was during the Clinton and presidency and dirty deals that he was involved in?
I did more research on both candidates than probably anyone.
Being associated with Clinton is NOT a bad thing... Let's remember that the US economy was at an extreme high point and let's be honest... Cuccinelli sucked.
Why do people outside of Va. care so much about what the Va. Governorship is?
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Uh... I voted for Sarvis.
I would have voted for McAuliffe... So... Yes.
I am 1 of those you say doesn't exist.
Interesting...how can you support both a libertarian and a liberal democrat? The political ideologies are practically opposite
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Interesting...how can you support both a libertarian and a liberal democrat? The political ideologies are practically opposite
This is exactly my problem w most people who vote for libertarians in close elections lately.
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I can't believe you guys are still talking about ObamaCare.
Let's be clear... It sucks, but it's the law of the land and it ain't going NOWHERE.
And do you know why?
It's the Republicans own damn fault... They had YEARS to come up with a good healthcare plan after they shot down Clinton in the 90s and never did shit.
So now, when Obama has all the cards, they want to fight against it without any real alternative... Yeah... that makes sense.
Look, ObamaCare sucks ass, but it's something... which is more than the Republicans did for years!
Now you want to blame Obama for your loss in Va? Let me be clear... if the Republican didn't suck, there wouldn't have been an alternative to worry about.
But noooo... Your bud Cuccinelli is a complete Uber Right Wing Shill and loses... You can try to blame libertarians, but really, it's the Republicans own damn fault and you full well know it.
truth
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Interesting...how can you support both a libertarian and a liberal democrat? The political ideologies are practically opposite
Perhaps, but when you look at the most recent political climate, the fact is that you will get less people telling you how to live your life if you vote for a Democrat over a Republican these days.
The old school Republican... The ones who didn't care about telling you what to do, they WOULD have gotten my vote, but now... No.
What was it I recently read?
"Liberals believe that the government knows best and should control what you MUST do. Conservatives believe that the government knows best and should control what you MUST NOT do."
They are both shit... but at least they aren't sitting around wasting money on who should or shouldn't get married.
Conservatives are just as far from Libertarians as Democrats are.
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LMFAO really? Due to obamacare and the leftists pos like Obama McAuliffe et al - its costing me 300 more a month to run my life due to communistcare.
There is more to life than abortion and twinks marrying
Perhaps, but when you look at the most recent political climate, the fact is that you will get less people telling you how to live your life if you vote for a Democrat over a Republican these days.
The old school Republican... The ones who didn't care about telling you what to do, they WOULD have gotten my vote, but now... No.
What was it I recently read?
"Liberals believe that the government knows best and should control what you MUST do. Conservatives believe that the government knows best and should control what you MUST NOT do."
They are both shit... but at least they aren't sitting around wasting money on who should or shouldn't get married.
Conservatives are just as far from Libertarians as Democrats are.
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LMFAO really? Due to obamacare and the leftists pos like Obama McAuliffe et al - its costing me 300 more a month to run my life due to communistcare.
There is more to life than abortion and twinks marrying
Then why do the republicans keep making those things issues?
The REPUBLICANS bring it up... The Democrats respond in kind to use it AGAINST the republicans.
If there's more to it, then why do the Republicans NOT LET IT FUCKING GO?
WHY DIDN'T THE REPUBLICANS SPEND ALL OF THAT TIME THEY HAD IT ALL MAKING A HEALTHCARE BILL THAT WORKS!?
You can keep bitching, and I do NOT like Obamacare, but there's sure as hell no stopping it now.
Great job republicans for fucking it up!
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Don't know and don't agree w it - but there is more to life that abortion and gay marriage for fucks sake!
I have to pay 3k more a year because liberals want to tell me how to run my life.
So tell me again now why the GOP is worse?
Then why do the republicans keep making those things issues?
The REPUBLICANS bring it up... The Democrats respond in kind to use it AGAINST the republicans.
If there's more to it, then why do the Republicans NOT LET IT FUCKING GO?
WHY DIDN'T THE REPUBLICANS SPEND ALL OF THAT TIME THEY HAD IT ALL MAKING A HEALTHCARE BILL THAT WORKS!?
You can keep bitching, and I do NOT like Obamacare, but there's sure as hell no stopping it now.
Great job republicans for fucking it up!
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Don't know and don't agree w it - but there is more to life that abortion and gay marriage for fucks sake!
I have to pay 3k more a year because liberals want to tell me how to run my life.
So tell me again now why the GOP is worse?
I already told you... You just aren't reading it.
They made non-issues issues, and are now pissed that they aren't winning those issues... I've been saying it for years and only now are people realizing it.
If they had actually bothered to do something before that mattered, you wouldn't be bitching about this today would you?
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I already told you... You just aren't reading it.
They made non-issues issues, and are now pissed that they aren't winning those issues... I've been saying it for years and only now are people realizing it.
If they had actually bothered to do something before that mattered, you wouldn't be bitching about this today would you?
I agree they shouldn't and it turns me off - but those things don't affect me or most people one iota. EVERYONE who works is going to get fucked by obamacare
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I agree they shouldn't and it turns me off - but those things don't affect me or most people one iota. EVERYONE who works is going to get fucked by obamacare
Maybe so, but when they had the chance they did nothing... NOTHING.
Why are you so mad at the Democrats and unwilling to put some of the onus on the Republicans for not doing something when they had the chance?
They have gone around and around saying that they could have done better... yet they didn't do ANYTHING when they had the chance... Why?
Do you think Iraq was more important than this now? Seems like they could have spent a few cycles doing something about healthcare instead of going after Saddam... Maybe we wouldn't be in this mess with Obamacare now.
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Maybe so, but when they had the chance they did nothing... NOTHING.
Why are you so mad at the Democrats and unwilling to put some of the onus on the Republicans for not doing something when they had the chance?
They have gone around and around saying that they could have done better... yet they didn't do ANYTHING when they had the chance... Why?
Do you think Iraq was more important than this now? Seems like they could have spent a few cycles doing something about healthcare instead of going after Saddam... Maybe we wouldn't be in this mess with Obamacare now.
Health care was not a crisis as the far left tried to make it. They sought that issue for power and control - nothing else.
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Health care was not a crisis as the far left tried to make it. They sought that issue for power and control - nothing else.
It wasn't the crisis to you... but apparently there were millions of people who did consider it a crisis.
Gay marriage wasn't a crisis, but the Republicans made sure to put that out there all over the place didn't they.
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It wasn't the crisis to you... but apparently there were millions of people who did consider it a crisis.
Gay marriage wasn't a crisis, but the Republicans made sure to put that out there all over the place didn't they.
And guess what - putting liberal do gooders and far leftist communist shit for brains in charge ended up w even more uninsured and even higher prices as many of us predicted long ago.
I don't give a fuck if fags want to marry. Let em. Me paying 300 more a month due to communistcare and delusional liberal drug addicts like Obama et al getting their way to assuage their Marxist fantasies? No fucking thanks - EVEr.
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It wasn't the crisis to you... but apparently there were millions of people who did consider it a crisis.
Gay marriage wasn't a crisis, but the Republicans made sure to put that out there all over the place didn't they.
and there will still be millions without healthcare. but the libs will deny that its a crisis and the republicans will bring light to the fact that there are still millions without healthcare and they will call it a crisis. its the power of television.
the conservatives will now become the bleeding hearts who worry about the people who don't have healthcare. and the dems will now become the realists who understand that some people will just fall through the cracks.
and the cycle continues.
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Once again, it is unanimously agreed that sarvis took more votes from cuc than mcaulif. If there were only 2 names on the ballot, and even half the sarvis voters voted for cuc, he would have won.
We can stop pretending that even a single one of them would have voted for a liberal democrat, or that a vote for sarvis translated to anything other than a vote for mcauliffe.
I dont understand... Dem bag of shite won by 2 points. If "even half" of the liberals had voted for the repub, the "other half" would have voted for the dem, who still would have won.
The Repub would have had to GAIN ground to cover those 2 points, meaning what, 70% (I'm guessing) of those libertarians would have had to vote repub. Just splitting doesn't help the guy trailing by 2.
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And guess what - putting liberal do gooders and far leftist communist shit for brains in charge ended up w even more uninsured and even higher prices as many of us predicted long ago.
I don't give a fuck if fags want to marry. Let em. Me paying 300 more a month due to communistcare and delusional liberal drug addicts like Obama et al getting their way to assuage their Marxist fantasies? No fucking thanks - EVEr.
Not saying it was better... I have never said it was good.
But when you do NOTHING, and someone comes along and does "something", then the people who have no hope, they are going to fall for it.
I didn't want it either, but it's here, and it's not going anywhere.
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Not saying it was better... I have never said it was good.
But when you do NOTHING, and someone comes along and does "something", then the people who have no hope, they are going to fall for it.
I didn't want it either, but it's here, and it's not going anywhere.
Sometimes doing nothing is better than acting for the sake of acting when ones' plans were as ridiculous as obamacare, as predicted from DAY 1 from many of us, myself included.
I and other on this board predicted to the freaking tee what a mess obamacare would be
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Sometimes doing nothing is better than acting for the sake of acting when ones' plans were as ridiculous as obamacare, as predicted from DAY 1 from many of us, myself included.
I and other on this board predicted to the freaking tee what a mess obamacare would be
I predicted it as well, but it wasn't sold to me... It was sold to other people. My insurance coverage is and always has been way better than any of that crap, but then, it's not about me.
You can't argue that some things in the healthcare law are good too....
Letting kids stay on parents plans until 26.
No longer allowing people to be denied because of pre-existing conditions...
Those are good things right? Do you not like those?
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I predicted it as well, but it wasn't sold to me... It was sold to other people. My insurance coverage is and always has been way better than any of that crap, but then, it's not about me.
You can't argue that some things in the healthcare law are good too....
Letting kids stay on parents plans until 26.
No longer allowing people to be denied because of pre-existing conditions...
Those are good things right? Do you not like those?
No I don't like those things. That is not insurance in the sense of what insurance is - but welfare. If you have a house and carry no insurance and have a fire, can you call Allstate the day after and be like "Hey I had a house fire yesterday - I need a policy" ? No. Its welfare and the best the thing to do is separate those people into high risk pools and deal w them alone so that those who are young healthy and fit don't keep getting fucked
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hugely flawed is probably still an understatement yet he wins over a teabagger
Repubs literally gave this election away to the Dems
You don't get it do you? He barley won and almost lost. Thats not a good sign for you libs but I'm sure you'll buy another election just to deteriorate the country even more.
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Doesn't bode well for the Dems if the GOP was able to eradicate a very sizable double digit lead in just about two weeks thanks to Obamacare.
It's going to be funny watching Obamacare lead to the suicide of the Dems 2014 hopes.
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You don't get it do you? He barley won and almost lost. Thats not a good sign for you libs but I'm sure you'll buy another election just to deteriorate the country even more.
You don't get it
Repubs gave the office to the Dems by running a teabagger
Repubs in the state knew (and stated publicly) that their hopes of winning were predicated upon low voter turnout
That's the only way a teabagger has any chance of winning (other than a gerrymandered district)
Think about this for a second
Harry Reid said (more or less) that he would like it if Ted Cruz were the Republican candidate in 2016
Why do you think he would say that?
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No I don't like those things. That is not insurance in the sense of what insurance is - but welfare. If you have a house and carry no insurance and have a fire, can you call Allstate the day after and be like "Hey I had a house fire yesterday - I need a policy" ? No. Its welfare and the best the thing to do is separate those people into high risk pools and deal w them alone so that those who are young healthy and fit don't keep getting fucked
Well then you are in the minority of people.
Most people believe those things are good.
Also. You know exit polls showed that Sarvis took more dem voted than republican votes.
But whose things don't count....
Some other info for you.
Hands free. Taken from Joe Enroughty's facebook page, I'm done typing to you idiots.
For those who are believing the GOP LIE that Robert C. Sarvis was funded by a Democratic "bundler," please see this message from Richard Conrow. And then go get a life.
Joe Liemandt has given to Democrats and Libertarians and he was a major Gary Johnson contributor in 2012.
He donated to a LIBERTARIAN PAC which focuses the majority of its attention on Texas. Of the $150,000 he donated, $10,000 went to Sarvis.
Tons of Republicans have donated to Sarvis' campaign, but when a guy with a democratic background INDIRECTLY contributes to Sarvis, it becomes a conspiracy.
The Libertarian Booster PAC has supported various other libertarian candidates in the state of Virginia.
The donor in question donated $150,000 dollars to the Libertarian booster PAC. Of that $150,000, less than $15,000 was spent in the state of Virginia.
Here are lists of every candidate the PAC donated to in 2012 and 2013:
http://www.libertarianboosterpac.org/2012-candidates.html
http://www.libertarianboosterpac.org/2013-candidates.html
Liemandt and his wife have donated BOTH to Democrats AND to Libertarians. $130,000 to the libertarian party since 2009. This is an indicator that they are civil Libertarians.
The Reality is that if he had not donated such a substantial sum, Sarvis or ANY other Libertarian in VA would not have received these donations, and those in Texas would be in the same boat. Large Republican donors, particularly the Kochs, have been noted to make large donations like this.
Just because a guy who donates on a bi-partisan basis donated to a PAC with a TRACK RECORD of supporting Libertarians, it does not mean that this is a democratic conspiracy.
2012 Candidates
www.libertarianboosterpa c.org
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So? Most people are stupid. Covering pre-existing conditions is not insurance. Its welfare.
Well then you are in the minority of people.
Most people believe those things are good.
Also. You know exit polls showed that Sarvis took more dem voted than republican votes.
But whose things don't count....
Some other info for you.
Hands free. Taken from Joe Enroughty's facebook page, I'm done typing to you idiots.
For those who are believing the GOP LIE that Robert C. Sarvis was funded by a Democratic "bundler," please see this message from Richard Conrow. And then go get a life.
Joe Liemandt has given to Democrats and Libertarians and he was a major Gary Johnson contributor in 2012.
He donated to a LIBERTARIAN PAC which focuses the majority of its attention on Texas. Of the $150,000 he donated, $10,000 went to Sarvis.
Tons of Republicans have donated to Sarvis' campaign, but when a guy with a democratic background INDIRECTLY contributes to Sarvis, it becomes a conspiracy.
The Libertarian Booster PAC has supported various other libertarian candidates in the state of Virginia.
The donor in question donated $150,000 dollars to the Libertarian booster PAC. Of that $150,000, less than $15,000 was spent in the state of Virginia.
Here are lists of every candidate the PAC donated to in 2012 and 2013:
http://www.libertarianboosterpac.org/2012-candidates.html
http://www.libertarianboosterpac.org/2013-candidates.html
Liemandt and his wife have donated BOTH to Democrats AND to Libertarians. $130,000 to the libertarian party since 2009. This is an indicator that they are civil Libertarians.
The Reality is that if he had not donated such a substantial sum, Sarvis or ANY other Libertarian in VA would not have received these donations, and those in Texas would be in the same boat. Large Republican donors, particularly the Kochs, have been noted to make large donations like this.
Just because a guy who donates on a bi-partisan basis donated to a PAC with a TRACK RECORD of supporting Libertarians, it does not mean that this is a democratic conspiracy.
2012 Candidates
www.libertarianboosterpa c.org
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http://thefederalist.com/2013/11/06/no-robert-sarvis-did-not-cost-ken-cuccinelli-the-virginia-election/
Also.
I'm sorry, but then so is Medicare and everything else.
I understand the want for smaller government. But you don't think the richest country on earth can take care of the elderly and the babies?
If you don't then you're a cold ass guy.
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http://thefederalist.com/2013/11/06/no-robert-sarvis-did-not-cost-ken-cuccinelli-the-virginia-election/
Also.
I'm sorry, but then so is Medicare and everything else.
I understand the want for smaller government. But you don't think the richest country on earth can take care of the elderly and the babies?
If you don't then you're a cold ass guy.
How can you call yourself a libertarian ? Not being a dick - being consistent?
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How can you call yourself a libertarian ? Not being a dick - being consistent?
Libertarians believe in free market and so do I.
I also believe in social freedom and fiscal conservatism, but that doesn't mean I'm heartless and don't think we as a society should at least offer basic services to our extreme old and extreme young.
I don't think people of working age should be afforded the same courtesy.
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Libertarians believe in free market and so do I.
I also believe in social freedom and fiscal conservatism, but that doesn't mean I'm heartless and don't think we as a society should at least offer basic services to our extreme old and extreme young.
I don't think people of working age should be afforded the same courtesy.
Most libertarians are against mediacare, ss, etc.
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Most libertarians are against mediacare, ss, etc.
actually. That's the problems with libertarians and why they will not make a dent.
They are unwilling to admit that some things are good for America.
Those are 2 of them.
They should be fixed. Not stolen from. You stop taking from them and you do some smart things about welfare. Then you reduce the cost of them. Also reduce some of our military spending and the budget will be set.
Part of the problem is that you have some libertarians who want to just get rid of everything.
Others just want to be sensible. Like me.
There is no common ideal for libertarians and that's part of the problem.
I don't see any of your republicans doing anything to cut spending of course. They just keep talking about gay marriage.
No comment on the fact that Sarvis took more democrats 2-1 than e took from Cuccinelli?
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Ill just speak locally. The gOP county exec in my county has held the line on taxes, fought back Obama land use grab, and has kept spending in line. The democrats are just outright Marxists. There is a difference, at least locally.
actually. That's the problems with libertarians and why they will not make a dent.
They are unwilling to admit that some things are good for America.
Those are 2 of them.
They should be fixed. Not stolen from. You stop taking from them and you do some smart things about welfare. Then you reduce the cost of them. Also reduce some of our military spending and the budget will be set.
Part of the problem is that you have some libertarians who want to just get rid of everything.
Others just want to be sensible. Like me.
There is no common ideal for libertarians and that's part of the problem.
I don't see any of your republicans doing anything to cut spending of course. They just keep talking about gay marriage.
No comment on the fact that Sarvis took more democrats 2-1 than e took from Cuccinelli?
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I can't believe you guys are still talking about ObamaCare.
Let's be clear... It sucks, but it's the law of the land and it ain't going NOWHERE.
And do you know why?
It's the Republicans own damn fault... They had YEARS to come up with a good healthcare plan after they shot down Clinton in the 90s and never did shit.
So now, when Obama has all the cards, they want to fight against it without any real alternative... Yeah... that makes sense.
Look, ObamaCare sucks ass, but it's something... which is more than the Republicans did for years!
Now you want to blame Obama for your loss in Va? Let me be clear... if the Republican didn't suck, there wouldn't have been an alternative to worry about.
But noooo... Your bud Cuccinelli is a complete Uber Right Wing Shill and loses... You can try to blame libertarians, but really, it's the Republicans own damn fault and you full well know it.
I dont blame you for not knowing this as the media would never admit it
BUT.....
bush actually had a health care plan that covered more ppl and costed less per the CBO. The dems declared it dead on arrival and it was never able to get traction.
The reps have had plenty of ideas for health care reform, do a little research
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I dont blame you for not knowing this as the media would never admit it
BUT.....
bush actually had a health care plan that covered more ppl and costed less per the CBO. The dems declared it dead on arrival and it was never able to get traction.
The reps have had plenty of ideas for health care reform, do a little research
Bush had time of having the house and the senate.
So if he couldn't get it done he has only himself and his party to blame.
Also. Link please. You're right. I haven't seen it. So if you would show me the documents on it. I will be happy to look.
In my mind. He spent more time worry about how to get Saddam and not enough time on that. But that's just because I never saw anything from the Republicans on healthcare UNTIL the Dems had their plan out to the masses.
No one still replying to my fact that exit polls show 2-1 votes being taken from Dems and not Repubs in Va.
Ok the.
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Bush had Tim
tim?
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Ill just speak locally. The gOP county exec in my county has held the line on taxes, fought back Obama land use grab, and has kept spending in line. The democrats are just outright Marxists. There is a difference, at least locally.
I can see that. Local politicians are often not corrupted. It's when they move into bigger political positions they get corrupted.
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Bush had time of having the house and the senate.
So if he couldn't get it done he has only himself and his party to blame.
Also. Link please. You're right. I haven't seen it. So if you would show me the documents on it. I will be happy to look.
In my mind. He spent more time worry about how to get Saddam and not enough time on that. But that's just because I never saw anything from the Republicans on healthcare UNTIL the Dems had their plan out to the masses.
No one still replying to my fact that exit polls show 2-1 votes being taken from Dems and not Repubs in Va.
Ok the.
it was just after his 2nd election if I remember correctly and yea during the first term he was a tad pre-occupied with other ish right or wrong
I started a thread on it let me see if I can find it.
I dont know anything about this election, i have been real busy lately i just saw your post and decided to respond
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/28/seriously-the-republicans-have-no-health-plan/
were some of these during the bush admin???
Comprehensive Republican health reform plans introduced in Congress
Let’s start with 5 comprehensive health reform proposals that have actually been introduced in Congress—some well before President Obama even was nominated for president, and all months before the House (11/7/09) or Senate (12/24/09) voted on what eventually became Obamacare.
•Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act (S. 1783) introduced by Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) July 12, 2007.
•Every American Insured Health Act introduced by Senators Richard Burr (R-NC) and Bob Corker (R-TN) with co-sponsors Tom Coburn (R-OK), Mel Martinez (formerly R-FL) and Elizabeth Dole (formerly R-NC) on July 26, 2007.
•Senators Bob Bennett (R-UT) and Ron Wyden (D-OR) introduced the Healthy Americans Act on January 18, 2007 and re-introduced the same bill on February 5, 2009.
•Patients’ Choice Act of 2009 introduced by Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC) and Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA) on May 20, 2009.
•H.R. 2300, Empowering Patients First Act introduced July 30, 2009 by Rep. Tom Price (R-GA).
Comprehensive conservative Obamacare replacement plans
Likewise, conservative market-oriented health policy scholars have developed a rich menu of potential replacement plans for Obamacare:
•Individual Pay or Play proposed in 2005 by John Goodman; this is a minimalist version of a broader reform envisaged by Goodman built on converting the tax exclusion into universal tax credits.
•Health Status Insurance originally proposed by John Cochrane in 1995.
•Universal Health Savings Accounts proposed by John Goodman and Peter Ferrara in 2012. This combines fixed tax credits with individual pay or play and health status insurance concepts along with Roth-style Health Savings Accounts.
•Fixed tax credits. A variety of proposals have centered on using fix tax credits to replace the current inefficient and unfair tax exclusion for employer-provided health benefits. Two good explanations of how that would work are here: •James C. Capretta and Robert E. Moffit, “How to Replace Obamacare,” National Affairs, no. 11 (Spring 2012).
•James C. Capretta. Constructing an Alternative to Obamacare: Key Details for a Practical Replacement Program. American Enterprise Institute, December 2012.
•Income-Related Tax Credits proposed by Mark Pauly and John Hoff in Responsible Tax Credits (2002) and endorsed by the American Medical Association. More recently, 8 scholars from Harvard, University of Chicago, and USC–Jay Bhattacharya, Amitabh Chandra, Michael Chernew, Dana Goldman, Anupam Jena, Darius Lakdawalla,Anup Malani and Tomas Philipson—released Best of Both Worlds: Uniting Universal Coverage and Personal Choice in Health Care (2013) which also is built around a model of individual health insurance subsidized with income-related tax credits.
•Flexible Benefits Tax Credit For Health Insurance by Lynn Etheredge in 2001.
•Near-Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2001 by Sara Singer, Alan Garber and Alain Enthoven (covers only non-elderly).
•Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2013 by former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Avik Roy (covers Medicare and Medicaid in addition to privately insured).
and just to kick you in the libtard nuts, which nancy pelosi no doubt keeps in her purse...
The forgotten history of George W. Bush’s comprehensive health reform plan
Too many people conveniently ignore that in his 2007 State of the Union message President Bush proposed a sweeping health reform plan that would have replaced the current tax exclusion for employer-provided coverage with standard tax deductions for all individuals and families. The Bush plan called for a tax deduction that would have applied to payroll taxes as well as income taxes. Moreover, if one were worried about non-filers, the subsidy could easily have instead been structured as a refundable tax credit in which case even those without any income taxes would have gotten an additional amount. This is the kind of policy detail that easily could have been negotiated had the Democrats been in a cooperative mood in 2007. They were not. On the contrary, President Bush’s health plan was declared “dead on arrival” by Democrats in 2007. Yet it is Republicans who were tagged as being uncooperative and intransigent when they resisted the misguided direction that Obamacare seemed to be headed.
What’s sad is that the Bush plan actually was superior to Obamacare when it comes to providing universal coverage. Remember, Obamacare actually does not provided universal coverage. The latest figures from CBO says that when it is fully implemented in 2016, Obamacare will cut the number of uninsured by only 45%, covering 89% of the non-elderly. Even if illegal immigrants are excluded, this percentage rises to only 92%. In contrast, the Bush plan (without a mandate!) would have cut the number of uninsured by 65%. But that’s ancient history. Consider one of the newest market-oriented health reform plans put on the table by Jim Capretta and Douglas Holtz-Eakin. Compared to Obamacare, this plan would cost roughly the same amount yet cover 22% more (8 million!) uninsured. If there’s a superior alternative to the slow-motion train wreck now being implemented, why wouldn’t the President and Democrats in Congress want to seriously consider it as a replacement?
Of course even those willing to acknowledge Bush’s health reform plan then tend to counter with the claim that he wasn’t “serious” about his proposal. It was just a defensive move to defend Republicans in 2008 against the charge that the Republicans didn’t have a plan because they didn’t care about the issue (sound familiar). Those dubious about GWB’s “seriousness” about health reform should do the following thought experiment. Imagine that the Democrats in Congress had passed a bill containing the Bush administration’s health plan–no more, no less. Does anyone seriously believe GWB would have vetoed that bill? If not, I would argue his proposal was a serious one.
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Perhaps, but when you look at the most recent political climate, the fact is that you will get less people telling you how to live your life if you vote for a Democrat over a Republican these days.
The old school Republican... The ones who didn't care about telling you what to do, they WOULD have gotten my vote, but now... No.
What was it I recently read?
"Liberals believe that the government knows best and should control what you MUST do. Conservatives believe that the government knows best and should control what you MUST NOT do."
They are both shit... but at least they aren't sitting around wasting money on who should or shouldn't get married.
Conservatives are just as far from Libertarians as Democrats are.
You should post more. Some really interesting ideas here. What I take from this is that our 2-party system just sucks. Anyone here know much about those multi-party systems that countries like Germany have? Does that end up working better? Maybe I'll give wikipedia a workout about this...
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You should post more. Some really interesting ideas here. What I take from this is that our 2-party system just sucks. Anyone here know much about those multi-party systems that countries like Germany have? Does that end up working better? Maybe I'll give wikipedia a workout about this...
I used to post here quite a bit, but I quit... Almost everyone here is a shill... you are either with them or against them.
Most people are unwilling to admit that their party isn't perfect... So they just keep on going with the system presented to them.
It's kind of a shame.
I mean, in this thread alone, we've got people blaming a 3rd party for giving an election to one party, even though facts don't agree.
I got tired of arguing with everyone.
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Perhaps, but when you look at the most recent political climate, the fact is that you will get less people telling you how to live your life if you vote for a Democrat over a Republican these days.
Conservatives are just as far from Libertarians as Democrats are.
Wtf...lol...you can't be serious? This is completely opposite of the truth
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TU is dead wrong. ObamaCare alone is telling and forcing me how to love my life by forcing me to spend over 300 more a month in insurance. Sorry - nothing remotely the GOP is close.
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I can't believe you guys are still talking about ObamaCare.
Let's be clear... It sucks, but it's the law of the land and it ain't going NOWHERE.
And do you know why?
It's the Republicans own damn fault... They had YEARS to come up with a good healthcare plan after they shot down Clinton in the 90s and never did shit.
So now, when Obama has all the cards, they want to fight against it without any real alternative... Yeah... that makes sense.
Look, ObamaCare sucks ass, but it's something... which is more than the Republicans did for years!
Now you want to blame Obama for your loss in Va? Let me be clear... if the Republican didn't suck, there wouldn't have been an alternative to worry about.
But noooo... Your bud Cuccinelli is a complete Uber Right Wing Shill and loses... You can try to blame libertarians, but really, it's the Republicans own damn fault and you full well know it.
How can you blame the GOP for the current disaster that is obamacare and yet act as if Dems are not liars? How can you pretend that it shouldn't be an issue that should be brought up in every midterm election where a democrat supported the reform and claimed that people could keep their coverage and doctors?
You are not a libertarian. There is no way a libertarian would defend or take the side of the democratic party on this issue and blame solely the GOP.
You are another imbecilic liberal.
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Conservatives are just as far from Libertarians as Democrats are.
EHEHEHEHEEHEE!!
This poster is a clown. A nitwit.
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Yea sounds like just another liberal dem to me...nothing else makes sense
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EHEHEHEHEEHEE!!
This poster is a clown. A nitwit.
No - he just bought into sarvis' bs who was there to help McCauliffe.
I am libertarian in most of my views - but at certain times you have to be realistic when it comes to elections.
VA can now suck it now that they have Fast Terry who is as corrupt as it gets and promised gun laws just like NYS and CO and black boxes in cars.
But oh yeah - Cooch who fought obamacare tooth and nail and has a A rating w the NRA and Terry an F was worse. Whatever.
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Wtf...lol...you can't be serious? This is completely opposite of the truth
Gay rights.
Womans rights.
Religion.
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Gay rights.
Womans rights.
Religion.
LOL - as if that is all that matters ::)
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Tea Party political savy:
Christie won? Big deal.
Cucci lost? It was a great referendum on Obamacare.
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Tea Party political savy:
Christie won? Big deal.
Cucci lost? It was a great referendum on Obamacare.
He closed the 10 point gap in a week or so as obamcare implodes. another week or so he would have won.
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Coulda, woulda, shoulda... but didn't.
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Gay rights.
Womans rights.
Religion.
Gays have plenty of 'rights', they are glorified and promoted in modern society.
Liberal are the ones against women's health, they want to keep open every shady backalley abortion mill in the country. But I guess assuring access to cheap abortions from a back alley'clinic' are the standards for 'women's rights' ::)
Speaking of women's rights, conservatives feel that women should be able to defend themselves from attackers, whereas liberals think they ought to be left on their own to fight off a rapist...maybe give them a 'rape whistle' ::)
And late term abortions involve the killing of a human life..so there's a little more to it than just the whores 'rights'.
And virtually all conservatives/tea party support freedom of religion. The liberals however, push and love islam while trying to forcibly remove christianity from america
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The Problem With Libertarians
Derek Hunter
11/7/2013 12:01:00 AM - Derek Hunter
www.townhall.com
There was a time I called myself a Libertarian. And there was a time I was a Libertarian. I just wanted to get government to leave me alone, to leave people alone and to go all crazy and limit itself to doing only that which is spelled out clearly in the Constitution. That was what a Libertarian was. But it’s not anymore.
The word no longer has any meaning, no definition or parameters, certainly no coherent philosophy to speak of. And there’s no one to blame for that except Libertarians themselves.
So what happened?
By not even loosely defining the parameters of a set of beliefs, Libertarians allowed their brand – as it was – to be hijacked by anyone willing to wear the label. They went from the movement for individual responsibility, small government and free markets to a gaggle of misfits who want pot and prostitution legalized and a total non-interventionist foreign policy.
That pretty much sums it up.
Honestly, what does being a Libertarian mean beyond legalizing drugs, banging hookers and sitting by while the rest of the world blows itself up?
The great Reason magazine is a wonderful publication filled with great articles, solid journalism you won’t find elsewhere…and a voice that does little more than complain.
Reason is great at highlighting abuses by every level of government, stories ignored by other media outlets. But you won’t find much in the way of philosophy or solutions. (There’s some, it just doesn’t seem to be a focus.) They preach to the choir, and it ends there.
I love the Cato Institute and have a lot of good friends who work there, and they do offer some good solutions. They just refuse to do anything about them. Cato has a deserved reputation for refusing to play nice with anyone else. When was the last legislative “victory” spearheaded or introduced by Cato?
What Libertarians do exceedingly well is sit on the sidelines, arms folded, and complain. No idea was ever put into action by complaining that it wasn’t so, yet that seems to be the Libertarian modus operandi.
On election night 2008, I was at a Reason/America’s Future Foundation (another Libertarian group) election night party in a Chinatown bar in DC. The results of the election were a forgone conclusion, so what better way to mark the night than with a few drinks and friends. Hell, the band played as the Titanic sank, so why not imbibe a bit as the nation hit the iceberg?
It’s not like anyone was thrilled to vote for John McCain that day. But as bad as McCain was (and still is), he was better than Barack Obama. At least that’s a conclusion you’d expect anyone who supported liberty to draw.
Yet that night, as each state was declared for Obama, cheers rose from the crowd. When Obama won Ohio, you would’ve thought you were in a bar in Green Bay and the Packers had just won the Super Bowl. High-fives and laughter filled the room.
It wasn’t as though these self-described Libertarians wanted Obama to win. Well, actually, many of them did. But the majority of them wanted McCain to lose. They wanted Republicans to lose. Their victory was to let the country lose, to get that smug sense of self-satisfaction they were feeling.
In the years since, that attitude has only grown. And what it means to be a Libertarian has blurred even more than before. So much so that a “Libertarian” candidate for governor in Virginia – many of whose views would disgust “real” Libertarians – pulled 7 percent in a race decided by much less pretty much solely on the strength of his party ID.
Libertarians have devolved from the pro-liberty wing of the right side of the ledger to the annoying kid who, when he doesn’t get 100 percent of what he wants, takes his ball and goes home. The team he agrees with more than half the time loses to the team he barely agrees with at all, and he cheers while marinating in his smugness.
Perhaps the best-known of the bastardized self-definition of Libertarian is Bill Maher. Maher is a Libertarian like David Ortiz is a world-class sprinter. But with a definition as firm as a bowl of Jell-O, there’s no one to say he isn’t.
In his largely ignored HBO show, Maher labels himself a Libertarian. On the Internet, a lazy, compliant media perpetuates that label, and soon it becomes accepted fact. In reality, Maher doesn’t have the first clue about the virtues of individual liberty, nor does he possess any love of a Libertarian philosophy beyond wanting to smoke weed and bang hookers.
But who’s saying he’s not a Libertarian? Who challenges his claim in any public and sustained way? No one.
So the progressive pap that slips past his bleached teeth and onto the Internet is associated with, and is becoming, Libertarian orthodoxy with a new generation of confused people.
Grover Norquist, President of Americans for Tax Reform, famously tells the story of how Maher came to his Wednesday Meeting once and made his Libertarian claim, then proceeded to rant of how government needs to do this, that and the other thing. And they need to raise taxes to pay for it all. Grover, in a room of 150 people, ask Maher, “So you’re from the pro-high tax wing of the Libertarian movement?” Everyone in the room laughed hysterically, except Maher. He didn’t get it. At least it didn’t seem like he’d gotten it, but maybe he did. Maybe it was everyone else in the room who didn’t get it.
Thanks to Maher and his ilk, the term Libertarian does now come closer to what he thinks it is than it used to. If prominent Libertarians and Libertarian organizations continue to accept through silence this bastardization, it will continue to intensify. If they continue with their “my way or the highway” approach to electoral politics, their 100 percent-or-nothing purity tests, I’m not sure there will be anyone except them left to give a damn.
There’s a lesson in all this for the GOP establishment too. The disintegration of Libertarians is similar to what we’re seeing happen in the counterproductive battle between conservatives/Tea Party and the Republican establishment. If the GOP establishment can’t win with their candidate, they’d rather lose. It’s not cutting off your nose to spite your face; it’s more like cutting off your head to spite yourself.
The Virginia gubernatorial race wasn’t lost by Ken Cuccinelli. It was lost by the GOP establishment. The national party took their ball and went home early, leaving the Republican candidate astronomically outspent. Even with that disadvantage, he barely lost. Say what you will of Michael Steele’s tenure as GOP Chairman, at least he won. That’s more than can be said for the elections under Reince Priebus.
Much like Libertarians, the GOP establishment took their ball and went home in Virginia. How’d that work out for them? They “succeeded” – the guy they didn’t want to win didn’t win. But Terry McAuliffe, perhaps the sleaziest person in all of the Clinton universe, is now governor of Virginia. Pretty perverted way to make a point.
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::)
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Gays have plenty of 'rights', they are glorified and promoted in modern society.
Liberal are the ones against women's health, they want to keep open every shady backalley abortion mill in the country. But I guess assuring access to cheap abortions from a back alley'clinic' are the standards for 'women's rights' ::)
Speaking of women's rights, conservatives feel that women should be able to defend themselves from attackers, whereas liberals think they ought to be left on their own to fight off a rapist...maybe give them a 'rape whistle' ::)
And late term abortions involve the killing of a human life..so there's a little more to it than just the whores 'rights'.
And virtually all conservatives/tea party support freedom of religion. The liberals however, push and love islam while trying to forcibly remove christianity from america
Thread over.
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How can you blame the GOP for the current disaster that is obamacare and yet act as if Dems are not liars? How can you pretend that it shouldn't be an issue that should be brought up in every midterm election where a democrat supported the reform and claimed that people could keep their coverage and doctors?
You are not a libertarian. There is no way a libertarian would defend or take the side of the democratic party on this issue and blame solely the GOP.
You are another imbecilic liberal.
If you think I'm a "liberal", then I have nothing more to say to you... People like you are why I avoid this ridiculous sub board.... If anyone doesn't agree with what "YOU" think, they must be the "Whatever the fuck you aren't".
In your case, I'm in imbecilic liberal, where to liberals, I must be a right wing lunatic... That's the problem with this board... You can't be of sound mind and disagree on points from both sides, because they don't like you.
I'm the furthest thing from a liberal, but you go ahead and tell me what you KNOW I MUST BE..
::)
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tim?
Did you actually stalk my post to the point that when I accidentally hit the post button, then went and changed it not more than 2-3 minutes later by finishing what I was typing that you had time to quote and ask me?
Damn dude...
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No I don't like those things. That is not insurance in the sense of what insurance is - but welfare. If you have a house and carry no insurance and have a fire, can you call Allstate the day after and be like "Hey I had a house fire yesterday - I need a policy" ? No. Its welfare and the best the thing to do is separate those people into high risk pools and deal w them alone so that those who are young healthy and fit don't keep getting fucked
After reading about those that will be helped tremendously by ACA, you seem pretty heartless, SC. (And that's worse than being a bleeding heart, imo.)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/05/1253247/-From-Kentucky-a-reminder-of-the-bigger-health-insurance-guy-health-insurance-guy-health-insurance-guy-health-insurance-nbsp-picture
Kentucky has become an early success story in the roll-out of Obamacare, with a Democratic governor, Steve Beshear, whose administration has tackled getting their program—Kynect—up and running efficiently. Just as important, Kentucky has committed to an extensive outreach program to get people educated, informed and signed up. The New York Times' Abby Goodnough checks in on that effort, and in doing so provides a very good reminder of why this law is so necessary.
The woman, a thin 61-year-old who refused to give her name, citing privacy concerns, had come to the public library here to sign up for health insurance through Kentucky’s new online exchange. She had a painful lump on the back of her hand and other health problems that worried her deeply, she said, but had been unable to afford insurance as a home health care worker who earns $9 an hour.
Within a minute, the system checked her information and flashed its conclusion on Ms. Cauley’s laptop: eligible for Medicaid. The woman began to weep with relief. Without insurance, she said as she left, “it’s cheaper to die.” [...]
After Samantha Davis helped Deborah and Joseph Willis enroll in Medicaid one morning at a Family Health Centers clinic, Mrs. Willis, 49, told her how she felt some doctors and nurses had treated her unkindly because she lacked insurance. “Maybe they’ll look at me a lot different now,” she said.
As the couple prepared to leave the clinic, Mr. Willis, who is 55 and has severe foot and back pain from injuries but has not seen a doctor in years, turned to Ms. Davis and extended his hand.
“God bless you,” he said. [...]
Through the exchange, Mr. Elson, 60, who has advanced diabetes and kidney disease, was offered a choice of 24 health plans, with premiums ranging from $92 to $501 a month after the subsidy. But if he felt elation or relief, he was too preoccupied to show it.
Bleeding at the back of his eyes, caused by a complication of diabetes, had blurred his vision. He had run out of insulin the previous week and had not refilled his prescriptions, which cost almost $500 a month, because a recent tax bill had depleted his bank account. He had an appointment with an eye specialist that afternoon, and the possibility of more debt was hanging heavily over him. [...]
“I’m hoping once I have insurance that I can sit down and figure out a budget and see if I have to bankrupt,” he said. [...]
“It’s not a fact that I want to sponge off of somebody,” he said. “I want to be able to pay my bills and be able to go through life without feeling I owe somebody.”
We're here today because, as a nation, we decided that no one should have to choose between their prescriptions—their insulin—and feeding their family or keeping their home. We're here today because, as a nation, we decided that no one should go bankrupt because of a health catastrophe. We decided as a nation that health insurance should be available and affordable to every American citizen. That decision was was reaffirmed by the Supreme Court and by a national election. These stories all serve as a reminder of that decision.
The solution thus far has proved imperfect, but it's far preferable to the status quo. For every person who is pissed off at having their junk insurance policy cancelled and has to sign up for a new one, there are dozens who are elated that they can finally have just a little bit of breathing room in their lives because they finally will have health insurance.