Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: ToxicAvenger on January 03, 2006, 09:13:54 AM
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Ronnie has more volume than Dorian...much more ...however Dorian kills Ronnie in density...Ronnie cant hold a candle to Dorian (who can?..viator?? ) as far as density is concerned.
remember Dillet ws king volume..but..he always looked watery..esp from the back...its the same concept (for ya noobs)
i side with density.
thats 1 vote for density! so me thinks Dorian wins over Ronnie
WHY?
drugs can give you volume ...its just a matter of escalating dosages..density is a matter of genetics and hard heavy consistent work.
that will be all...
folks that have never juiced in their life (double XL etc) need not respond to this thread...for obvious reasons...
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whatever, when you compare their pics side by side dorian was no where near Ronnie's level.
End of story.
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whatever, when you compare their pics side by side dorian was no where near Ronnie's level.
End of story.
remember..as i added to my thread...
unless you have juiced.you really dont know how easy volume is to get versus density...
...and non juicers cannot really comment on the likes of juiced up bbers only for the fact that they have NO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE to credit their opinion on....
see what i mean bro! :-\
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Agreed, but..
On all of the other criteria Ron has mainly pros along with a few cons. Yates has more cons to go with some pros.
Ron beats him handily in overall:
-Lines
-Structure
-X-taper
-Arms-no comparison & an essential criteria for superstardom, IMO
-Sweep
-Small joints/hips
-Volume
Yates looses in all those categories, beats Ron in only density and calves.
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...and non juicers cannot really comment on the likes of juiced up bbers only for the fact that they have NO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE to credit their opinion on....
see what i mean bro! :-\
Taking that comment to its logical conclusion, people who have not praticed politics cannot really comment on politicians or people who have not played professional basketball cannot really comment on professional basket players etc etc, which suggests that the comment isn't really logical at all.
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Ronnie is the best year after year people shit on something year after year he improves he gained 40 lbs of muscle in a year noone else has ever done that
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Agreed, but..
On all of the other criteria Ron has mainly pros along with a few cons. Yates has more cons to go with some pros.
yes but we dont measure criteria on an individual basis in a bbing show....do we now??
if we did..kevin shoulda won
shawn shoulda won
cutler shoulda won
we take the sum of all parts the day of the contest and then meaasure who is greatest...visualy..
and the sum of all parts (ayt least in my view) sides towards density...
otherwise dillett shoulda won a few times also...
Dorian beat Flex..Shawn..Kevin..Nass er at his prime..
who the fuck has ronnie beaten? cutler?? lmao..dont make me laugh man..cutler < mid 90s bbers...
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NUFF SAID
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2743&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2737&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&stc=1)
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Taking that comment to its logical conclusion, people who have not praticed politics cannot really comment on politicians or people who have not played professional basketball cannot really comment on professional basket players etc etc, which suggests that the comment isn't really logical at all.
thats not a logical conclusion ya idiot...man...we got some morons on this site...
what you r saying is that people ONLY that have practiced pro bbing should comment on such a subject..
and thats NOT what i am saying...
i'm talking about an extrinsic factor...
yeesh...foolish try...
try again...
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DORIAN GETTING OWNED.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
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NUFF SAID
wait..where did his calves and hams go?
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yea, I can really see how much more dense dorians muscles look in that pic ::)
All hype
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wait..where did his calves and hams go?
WHERE DID RONNIES HAMS GO? HAHAHA RONNIES HAMS ARE FUCKING MASSIVE, I GUESS THIS IS WHERE RONNIES HAMS WENT
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
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yea, I can really see how much more dense dorians muscles look in that pic ::)
All hype
HAHA, YEAH DORIAN IS SO DENSE AND "GRAINY" HAHAHAHA!!!
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notice how folks that have been lifting all of 3 years ::) and never seen an empty steroid bottle in their lives are the ones that most adamantly preach the ronnie gospel... ;D
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we dont measure criteria on an individual basis in a bbing show. we take the sum of all parts the day of the contest
On individual muscles Ron wins handily on almost all.
Overall, Yates has density few have had. That's about it. Ron has big advantages in most overall areas:
-Lines
-Structure
-X-taper
-Arms-no comparison & an essential criteria for superstardom, IMO
-Sweep
-Small joints/hips
-Volume
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notice how folks that have been lifting all of 3 years ::) and never seen an empty steroid bottle in their lives are the ones that most adamantly preach the ronnie gospel... ;D
ACTUALLY, IM PREACHING REALITY AND FACTS, TOXIC.
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thats not a logical conclusion ya idiot...man...we got some morons on this site...
what you r saying is that people ONLY that have practiced pro bbing should comment on such a subject..
and thats NOT what i am saying...
i'm talking about an extrinsic factor...
yeesh...foolish try...
try again...
I'd have to acknowledge that trying to engage a tosser like you in a civilized discussion is indeed foolish (a foolish waste of time).
But one last point before I let you drown in your own self-adulation; you don't have to be a steroid user to know about the effects of steroids, just as you don't have to have suffered cancer to know about the effects of cancer.
Deep joy. :-*
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notice how folks that have been lifting all of 3 years ::) and never seen an empty steroid bottle in their lives are the ones that most adamantly preach the ronnie gospel... ;D
LOL! I just dont see your point, Im no ronnie guy, but this hype around dorian I just dont see how it is true. Ok, so youve juiced for I dunno how many years, so you're able to convince me of something I dont even see? ::)
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ACTUALLY, IM PREACHING REALITY AND FACTS, TOXIC.
and in caps too ! Mr goti! ::)
how long have ya been in the sport? 2 years??..3 maybe??? ::)
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On individual muscles Ron wins handily on almost all.
Overall, Yates has density few have had. That's about it. Ron has big advantages in most overall areas:
-Lines
-Structure
-X-taper
-Arms-no comparison & an essential criteria for superstardom, IMO
-Sweep
-Small joints/hips
-Volume
YOU FORGOT RONNIE BEATS YATES ON BACK, TRAPS, DELTS, HAMS, QUADS, SEPERATION, VASCULARITY, SIZE, SHAPE, AESTHETICS.
RONNIE BEATS YATES ON EVERYTHING EXEPT, CALVES, ABS, AND "GRAINYNESS"
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I'd have to acknowledge that trying to engage a tosser like you in a civilized discussion is indeed foolish (a foolish waste of time).
But one last point before I let you drown in your own self-adulation; you don't have to be a steroid user to know about the effects of steroids, just as you don't have to have suffered cancer to know about the effects of cancer.
Deep joy. :-*
cancer and roids..brilliant!!! one is a drug and the other is a disease! bravo!!! encore!!!
...guess Ronnie fans are as dumb as ronnie sounds lol...
yeesh..ADULATION...lmao,....
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LOL! I just dont see your point, Im no ronnie guy, but this hype around dorian I just dont see how it is true. Ok, so youve juiced for I dunno how many years, so you're able to convince me of something I dont even see? ::)
1) experience is the greatest teacher right? so how come you can judge juicers when you dont have experience juicing?
2) you r a relative noob..and i dont say that to demean ya..hell ..right now you prolly train more and harder then i do..however..one DOES get a feel for the sport that betters with experience ie time.
ASK any OLD TIMER AND THEY'LL SIDE WITH DORIAN...mostly only noobs side with ronnie..
why is that?
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IVE BEEN LIFTING FOR OVER 10 YEARS FYI. IM NOT NATURAL, AND THAT'S NOT ME IN THOSE PICS I POSTED YOU FUCKING SKINNY LITTLE PAKI C*NT.
sooo you keep posting pix of other guyz with their shirts off???? ::) i mean you have done this 2ice claiming that it ws you..
lmao..
ok fag! ;)
LMAO...
this is fun!
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NOTHING ELSE NEEDS TO BE SAID
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
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DORIAN NEEDS SOME ACCUTANE, ONE OF THE REASONS FOR HIS "GRAINY" CONDITION IS ALL THE ACNE.
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(http://www.cbass.com/IMAGES/Dorian1.gif)
relax my gay friend...Dorian still wins... ;)
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relax my gay friend...Dorian still wins... ;)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
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cancer and roids..brilliant!!! one is a drug and the other is a disease! bravo!!! encore!!!
...guess Ronnie fans are as dumb as ronnie sounds lol...
yeesh..ADULATION...lmao,....
You are truly bright, aren't you? ;D
The point isn't that cancer and roid are the same thing, genius. The point is to address your comment that if you have "NO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE" of something (in this case roid use) then "you cannot really comment on it".
The example meant to indicate that a cancer speicalist does not have to have experienced cancer to have considerabble knowledge of cancer and be able to comment on it....................aa aahhh, just forget it, my bad. ::)
btw, I'm no Ronnie fan.
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(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2741&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2742&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2740&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2743&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2737&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&stc=1)
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you compare 2 different variables and force find a comnon ground...
relax...
take a step back....
and then try again...
you proved yourself an idiot by saying you're no ronnie fan yet trying to argue a conversation you dont believe in :-\
r you muslim??lol...
HA! now thats funny!
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...r you muslim??lol...
Afraid not.
Anyway I thought you were Pakistani! I take it, you don't much care for your background.
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I take it, you don't much care for your background.
LOL..OH MY GOD. you do know that there r Christian, atheist, Buddhist and Hindu people in Pakistan right?
lol you watch too much fox...
keep diggin brah..keep digging..lol... ;D
n oh..i dont believe in god..just like i dont believe in gnomes n pizies and goblins etc etc... ;)
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Praise allah.
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Praise allah.
i feel me a beheading coming on! :D
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DAMN....DORIAN GOT OWNED HORRIBLY IN THIS THREAD.
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ASK any OLD TIMER AND THEY'LL SIDE WITH DORIAN...mostly only noobs side with ronnie..
why is that?
shit, I dunno, is that the best of your arguments? The same old timers think any physique past teh early 90's is complete shit ::) All youve done so far is make judgements about people based on their experience in the gym (which I dunno how you managed to calculate)..So you weigh what, like 175 lbs? (not demeaning you) Then cant I make the same argument that you should be no one to criticse Ronnie's volume?
Thats kinda ironic though, since Dorian supposedly revolutionised the sport with the size he brought to it (and the gut ;))
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NUFF SAID
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2743&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2737&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&stc=1)
agreed
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LOL..OH MY GOD. you do know that there r Christian, atheist, Buddhist and Hindu people in Pakistan right?
lol you watch too much fox...
keep diggin brah..keep digging..lol... ;D
n oh..i dont believe in god..just like i dont believe in gnomes n pizies and goblins etc etc... ;)
Actually, it wasn't meant as a dig, so take some of your own advice and "relax". ;)
Fair enough, you're an agnostic, but considering over 96% of the population in Pakistan are Muslims, it's not that big a stretch to assume your background (if not own present personal belief) might be Muslim.
Anyway, I digress. Back to the topic.
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The debate about who is between Doryan and Ronnie owning who has been discussed the 18123823823 times. U didnt even reinforce yuor focking thread a legit comparison pic. Post someone the 1996 shots.
The 1996 Doryan has the 1998 Coleman Ronnie? Might he not?
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denser!
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shit, I dunno, is that the best of your arguments? The same old timers think any physique past teh early 90's is complete shit ::)
no no no..i'm speaking old times in MY relative terms..even the old old timers agree that the mid 90s genetics and physiques were the best...except no one actually asks them....people read posts made by a scanty few stewart mc robertish people (ya noobs wont know who stewart mc robert is btw :-\ ) and assume every old timer thinks likewise..NOT so...
All you've done so far is make judgements about people based on their experience in the gym
ummmm...i'm holding back here...but politely put..isn't that what judgements are made on..opr should be??
if not..please define A SET OF CONGRUENT CRITERIA THAT JUDGEMENTS SHOULD BE BASED ON BRO...?? (oops..the caps r an accident)
So you weigh what, like 175 lbs? (not demeaning you) Then cant I make the same argument that you should be no one to criticise Ronnie's volume?
no right now i actually weight 170..but at my max i have weighed 220...cut :-\ and i've gone from 160 to 220 in 6 months...it ws really really easy too...the juice gave me limitless appetite..i ate like i pig and never gained any fat..i trained like a wuss and i still gained...and i'm being honest...i have seen myself train harder when off the juice than on...but see..you wouldn;t even know how to identify there would ya?? :-\
and if i cant criticise rons volume..who the heck r you to critize dorians density?? and you haven't even juiced..soo in the scheme of experience i'm wayyyy ahead of you to make a judgement....
in the court of law they dont appoint noobs as judges ..do they??
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DORIAN GETTING OWNED
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2741&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2742&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2740&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2743&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2737&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&stc=1)
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tighter!
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DORIAN GETTING OWNED
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2741&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2742&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2740&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2743&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2737&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&stc=1)
BUMP
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DORIAN GETTING OWNED
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2741&stc=1)
how did u dare to compare the pics taken from different blatant angels?
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2742&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2740&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2743&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2737&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&stc=1)
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The debate about who is between Dorian and Ronnie owning who has been discussed the 18123823823 times. U didn't even reinforce your focking thread a legit comparison pic. Post someone the 1996 shots.
The 1996 Doryan has the 1998 Coleman Ronnie? Might he not?
mayybe ya didn't really read my thread title...the debate is between volume n density...now if idiots fail to see that is not my fault..and i am compelled to answer them... :-\
and btw..i'm from Krypton ;)
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agreed
AGREED!
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more solid
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mayybe ya didn't really read my thread title...the debate is between volume n density...now if idiots fail to see that is not my fault..and i am compelled to answer them... :-\
and btw..i'm from Krypton ;)
yo m8
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YES, RONNIE LOOKS MUCH MORE SOLID IN THAT SHOT, THANKS FOR THAT PIC, HERES ANOTHER PIC SHOWING HOW MUCH MORE SOLID RONNIE IS.
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&stc=1)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50549.0;id=51766;image)
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Oldtimers if they're biased will go for 1950-1970s physiques, so Yates won't benefit.
Yates & Jay is a closer comparison. Yates wins thanks to better density and a little less blockiness.
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1992 Yates could take the Mr O crown off 2002 Coleman Uornie. Could easily if'd have known what the crop is?
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1) experience is the greatest teacher right? so how come you can judge juicers when you dont have experience juicing?
2) you r a relative noob..and i dont say that to demean ya..hell ..right now you prolly train more and harder then i do..however..one DOES get a feel for the sport that betters with experience ie time.
ASK any OLD TIMER AND THEY'LL SIDE WITH DORIAN...mostly only noobs side with ronnie..
why is that?
It's called AGEism. You think the things that were in vogue when you were young will never be topped, be it music,sports, athletes etc. By the way I'm 38 and I think Ronnie fVcking crushes Dorian's nutsack.
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No...Ronnie ownz Dorian in that shot. I am getting tired about all of these pointless threads. Each has a fav..go with it. I personally thinks Ronnie wins, but Haney had size and shape that Doz and Ronnie could only dream about. Imagine if Haney took all the shiate that these two take; he would have owned both of them. Regardless, it is a moot point as they will never face off. Ronnie has more pleasing lines and is bigger; Dorian is tighter. If you ask me, if the judging were legit, they would likely trade off the Olympia from year to year. Only BB has a champion that is never defeated. Hell, even Pete Sampras and the Lakers got beat from time to time. The blatant favortism in BB is the reason it will never go mainstream....and the fact that the guys on stage are frickin mutants who scare most of the world. ;D
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Nobody could touch Dorian in back width and no one could touch Ronnie in the upper back muscularity.
ENOUGH SAID
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Dorian may have been "dense" looking but the fact of the matter is this:
he lacked the striations and detail to make the density of his muscles truly stand out.
for example, for all those who say Ronnie is "not as dense as dorian" look at these shots:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Coleman08.jpg)
(http://www.beyondrelief.com/images/colemanback.jpg)
Dorian never looked this dry-except for ONE SINGLE bodypart: the lower back.
so, for starters, the whole idea that Dorian "was more dense than Ronnie (when Ronnie was in shape) is wrong.
Secondly, the whole premise of this entire thread is flawed, simply because dorian lacked the detail in his arms and legs so being dense didn't really matter:
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy163.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy151.jpg)
What good is being dense when your arms and legs look like this, even when in great shape.
Now, IF Dorian had been detailed AND dense, then he would have had something.
But density by itself doesn't really mean much. Combined with the lack of good muscle shape and body taper, and you have a great recipe for overrated hype.
Notice what details and shape can do for you, even if people think you are "not as dense":
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bwcoleman0edecbab.jpg)
look at Ronnie's delts - they blow dorian's away, even if they are "not as dense"..
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=910&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/1999britishgrandprix/52.jpg)
again, check out the quads- Dorian's supposed "density" doesn't really do much for him in the leg department, does it?
so, in closing, saying that Dorian was "more dense" is meaningless because in order for that density to have an impact, you need detail and shape to go with it.
And in the arms and legs, Dorian was missing this.
And besides, as I showed above, ronnie doesn't exactly look like the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man when he is in shape...
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(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bwcoleman0edecbab.jpg)
Its more than just the delts, look at how much more impressive Ronnie's overall arms are- Dorian's density is totally useless against someone like Ronnie because the details and shape just are not there.
You would expect that someone as huge and dense as Dorian to be really impressive in shot like the most muscular, but in fact he was not.
Why?
He lacked the overall body shape and detail in crucial large bodyparts (arm complex and quads) to be truly impressive:
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974026807.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy26.jpg)
When I see shots of Dorian from the front, I see undetailed quads and arms TIME AND TIME again.
So, someone please explain what was so great about Dorian's "density" again?? It sure doesn't makes his arms and quads very impressive, and his chest doesn't look that great either, at least Compared to Ronnie:
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp9921.jpg)
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umm, no, but dorian was more dense, dry and shredded ::)
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and youre just a noob who's never juiced..unlike the older guys who'd rather side with good old dorian. You see, bias coming from dorian nuthuggers is obviously more authentic than the "noobs" who think ronnie is better
LOL
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I vote for Dorian, but this is so subjective.
I dont know why people like Hulkster waste their time trying to convince people of somthing so subjective.
Dorian owned Ronnie every time they competed against each other, and I see know good reason why he couldnt have continued to do so if he desired.
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Everything on Ronnie blows Dorian away except abs and calves.
DONT FORGET DORIANS GRAINY CONDITIONING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I vote for Dorian, but this is so subjective.
I dont know why people like Hulkster waste their time trying to convince people of somthing so subjective.
Dorian owned Ronnie every time they competed against each other, and I see know good reason why he couldnt have continued to do so if he desired.
I can come up with a good reason quite easily: ronnie hit his peak.
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"grainy" is just another word for "undetailed":
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy20.jpg)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/traincoleman80cf5343.jpg)
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I can come up with a good reason quite easily: ronnie hit his peak.
And ronnie wouldn't be anything close to a 8 time olympia winner if Yates didnt have the injuries. Yates would be the one going for 10
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this is really stupid. if you like dorian you just put good pics of him and bad ones of ronnie. and if you like ronnie you put good ones of him and bad ones of dorian.
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What an original idea for a thread.
Someday, someone will propose a brilliant idea like comparing Ronnie to Arnold.
I can't wait!!!!
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Ronnie has more volume than Dorian...much more ...however Dorian kills Ronnie in density...Ronnie cant hold a candle to Dorian (who can?..viator?? ) as far as density is concerned.
remember Dillet ws king volume..but..he always looked watery..esp from the back...its the same concept (for ya noobs)
i side with density.
thats 1 vote for density! so me thinks Dorian wins over Ronnie
WHY?
drugs can give you volume ...its just a matter of escalating dosages..density is a matter of genetics and hard heavy consistent work.
that will be all...
folks that have never juiced in their life (double XL etc) need not respond to this thread...for obvious reasons...
Couldn't agree more . You have dimplified the debate. Ronnie's muscles appear fuller than Dorian's, but Dorian's appear harder and "tighter" than Ronnie's. Despite his super-human, almost impossible hardness and dryness, Dorian's muscles always appeared somewhat flat. All things considered, Dorian is the better bodybuilder, because he could present a 270+ lbs package, without looking like a weird collection of bodyparts.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Sorry to burst your bubble 240, but the "Ronnie vs Arnold" threads have already seen the light of day. And I believe it was a draw.
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I dont know why people like Hulkster waste their time trying to convince people of somthing so subjective.
Too much time on their hands.... ;D ;D ;D Somebody's taking this board waaaaaay too seriously,... :o
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yes but we dont measure criteria on an individual basis in a bbing show....do we now??
if we did..kevin shoulda won
shawn shoulda won
cutler shoulda won
we take the sum of all parts the day of the contest and then meaasure who is greatest...visualy..
and the sum of all parts (ayt least in my view) sides towards density...
otherwise dillett shoulda won a few times also...
Dorian beat Flex..Shawn..Kevin..Nass er at his prime..
who the f**k has ronnie beaten? cutler?? lmao..dont make me laugh man..cutler < mid 90s bbers...
What are you talking about so did Ronnie ::) He beat all of those guys to several times! Why do u just bring up cutler ??? You know he has beaten shawn, kevin, flex, nasser, jay, dillet... The list goes on and on.. Even dorian himself said Ronnie beats him.. Ok the man said Ronnie beats him!!, this thread should not even have been made..
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I can come up with a good reason quite easily: ronnie hit his peak.
Well your argument is open ended and subjective, Dorian beating Ronnie is implicit and Fact
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Well your argument is open ended and subjective, Dorian beating Ronnie is implicit and Fact
That's the Mussolini I know:brutal and to the point! 8)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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It's 2 totally different physiques(apples and oranges). I'd pick Dorian.
front lat spread DY density DY
side tricep DY balance DY
front double RC overall condition (dry graininess) DY
side chest RC volume RC
back lat spread DY shape/lines RC
Back double bi RC arms RC
ab and thigh DY calves DY
side quarter turns DY abs DY
front relaxed DY chest RC
back relaxed RC
If you break it down like this it very very close.
I'd go as far as to say that the 1993 Dorian and 2003 Ronnie are the 2 best overall physiques ever.
Then Haney 1992, Ray 94, Levrone 94 and Flex 93 would round out my top 6.
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That's the Mussolini I know:brutal and to the point! 8)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Hey bro how are things?
If I remember correctly you live in FLA??
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Hey bro how are things?
If I remember correctly you live in FLA??
Yeah. too bad we won't be doing that Titus fight... :(
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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this is really stupid. if you like dorian you just put good pics of him and bad ones of ronnie. and if you like ronnie you put good ones of him and bad ones of dorian.
yeah the most just do that. And post like 12 pics in a post
Doryan still could have the powers to defeat current Ronnie if he knew what he should look like to make it happen.
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yeah the most just do that. And post like 12 pics in a post
Doryan still could have the powers to defeat current Ronnie if he knew what he should look like to make it happen.
You need to be an utter idiot, not to to realize, that Dorian looks far denser and more vascular than Ronnie, in this pic.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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and youre just a noob who's never juiced..unlike the older guys who'd rather side with good old dorian. You see, bias coming from dorian nuthuggers is obviously more authentic than the "noobs" who think ronnie is better
LOL
you prove my point in reverse ;)
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]
Dorian owned Ronnie every time they competed against each other,
the proof is in the pudding..
nuff said..
look it up noobs!
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Even dorian himself said Ronnie beats him..
so you'r saying you haven't read studies on pre and post competition physiology and behavioral changes?
look it up before ya yap...
so Dorian said something stupid when his test levels were running low...so what.. ::)
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ToxicAvenger:
You speak as if bodybuilding is all about volume vs. density. There are many factors to consider, and all in all, I will say that Ronnie absolutely destroys Dorian. No contest.
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The judging is based off the mandatory poses. Dorian tops Ronnie in most of the mandatories. The E n d .
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Its funny how people always fire up those black and white grainy photos of dorian to further their density claims yet look at contest pics and you realise the guy was not that special on the pro stage.
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The judging is based off the mandatory poses. Dorian tops Ronnie in most of the mandatories. The E n d .
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Its funny how people always fire up those black and white grainy photos of Dorian to further their density claims yet look at contest pics and you realise the guy was not that special on the pro stage.
A 6 time Mr. Olympia champion "not that special on the pro stage"..... What the fuck are you smoking??
The man set new standards for size and condition in the sport and you're referring to him as basically B list pro.
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Its funny how people always fire up those black and white grainy photos of dorian to further their density claims yet look at contest pics and you realise the guy was not that special on the pro stage.
Pass that crack pipe :-*
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Nobody beats Dorian in front lat spread. Haney came close but didn't dethrone Dorian of that pose
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A 6 time Mr. Olympia champion "not that special on the pro stage"..... What the f**k are you smoking??
The man set new standards for size and condition in the sport and you're referring to him as basically B list pro.
Nice faulty logic there pal.
As he was "nothing special" on the pro stage, standing next to levrone, ray etc he was still obviously an A list pro but quite frankly I would have went for ray/levrone in many of those cases.
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you prove my point in reverse ;)
hey, thats your argument, lol, I think I was jsut agreeing with you in a sarcastic way ;)
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Dorian reminds me of the token white NBA player. Skinheads on the DL come up with elaborate theories to support what they can't say overtly. ::)
Dorian has unusually great density, a good front lat that hides his weak points, and excellent calves.
On everything else-overall & on individual muscles, he's manhandled.
His arms are embarassing!
Consolation: He beats Jay.
Here you can see him looking over in admiration. Yates looks very good here. Then you look over at the other guy.. ;D
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Dorian reminds me of the token white NBA player. Skinheads on the DL come up with elaborate theories to support what they can't say overtly. ::)
Dorian has unusually great density, a good front lat that hides his weak points, and excellent calves.
On everything else-overall & on individual muscles, he's manhandled.
His arms are embarassing!
Consolation: He beats Jay.
Here you can see him looking over in admiration. Yates looks very good here. Then you look over at the other guy.. ;D
Except that Dorian has ACTUALLY destroyed that other guy onstage, while the reverse has never been true... ;D ::)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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It's 2 totally different physiques(apples and oranges). I'd pick Dorian.
front lat spread DY density DY
side tricep DY balance DY
front double RC overall condition (dry graininess) DY
side chest RC volume RC
back lat spread DY shape/lines RC
Back double bi RC arms RC
ab and thigh DY calves DY
side quarter turns DY abs DY
front relaxed DY chest RC
back relaxed RC
If you break it down like this it very very close.
I'd go as far as to say that the 1993 Dorian and 2003 Ronnie are the 2 best overall physiques ever.
Then Haney 1992, Ray 94, Levrone 94 and Flex 93 would round out my top 6.
not to be a dick but I think haney retired in 91 after his last olympia.
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The people participating in this thread seem to fall into two camps:
Those that are right (my side) and those that are wrong ( ;D)
No, seriously, they fall into these two schools of though:
1. Dorian was totally amazing from all angles, was super ripped, dense, and huge.
or
2. Dorian had great lats and calves, but had a horrible taper, soft quads, little detail and vascularity over much of his body, little striations except for the lower back, weak arms in general, and generally was "nothing special" when viewed from the front.
I would like to explore this psychology a bit farther.
Question for those who think Dorian is awesome:
What do you think of Dorian's taper?
What do you think of his lack of detail/seperation in the quads?
What do you think about his lack of detail/seperation in the arms?
Personally, when we are comparing Dorian to Ronnie, I can't help but agree that from the front at least, Dorian was nothing special.
When you have Ronnie looking like this in some shots:
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/dungeon1986/99%20grand%20prix/more%20pics/1999BritishGrandPrix_0069.jpg)
(http://www.ifbb.com/contestresults/mrolympia/coleman/99coleman9.jpg)
and Dorian getting destroyed from the front in shots like this:
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/976994107.jpg)
Its hard not to agree that Dorian was "nothing special from the front"
Compare Dorian and Ronnie standing relaxed in the last two shots: Dorian always looked like this even when he was in shape: bad taper, no detail in the quads.
ronnie, on the other hand, when he was in shape, had a great taper and awesome quads and arms..and back..and delts..etc. etc.
I really don't undestand all the hype about Dorian.
Lets take for example his world famous lat spread:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=35574.0;id=36246;image)
from the waist up, I think we can ALL agree that no one touches Dorian in this pose...BUT look at how crappy the quads are! You can't even see the seperation between the muscle groups like you can in most amateurs!!
Dorian was all lats, calves and back. But that was it. He suffered in almost every other aspect of a great physique..
As an example, notice how much more complete Ronnie's front lat spread looks, since quads are good and seperated. With dorian, you have half a pose that looks good. With Ronnie, you get the whole picture.
(http://www.mostmuscular.com/newmuscle.cx/olympia/coleman2.jpg)
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The other comment that keeps popping up is that we are comparing "apples to oranges".
My question is: are we really??
A good phyisque should have the following;
-excellent taper (X-frame, V-taper)
-good vascularity
-detail and striations
-good muscle shape (esp. in the arms, delts and quads)
-mass (they are both about even here)
When using this "classical" criteria, its hard to see how Dorian is really the better physique over Ronnie's, since he is inferior in many, many of these aspects.
However, it seems that some of us don't care about any of these things and keep emphasizing that
"dry graininess" trumps ALL of those other things...
and to which I would reply:
well, if dorian was so dry and grainy, why were his arms and legs so undetailed??
We are only comparing "apples to oranges" because Ronnie and Dorian are totally different. One has a great physique for the aforementioned reasons, the other is overrated beyond all belief..
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Except that Dorian has ACTUALLY destroyed that other guy onstage
A desperate, flawed example..
FYI Zane "destroyed" Schwarzenegger in an early contest.
What does that mean at the end of the day? Nice try.
Yates still blows. Especially the weak arms. :P
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DORIAN GETTING OWNED
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2741&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2742&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2740&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2743&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2737&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&stc=1)
BUMP
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As ND would say - according to the "true bodybuilding criteria" of shape, mass, taper and detail, ronnie crushes Yates on all of these except for mass. However, as is obvious, they are both pretty even in terms of mass.
And, as Ronnie did, as Yates got bigger, he got worse:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/BBingDungeon/95%20olympia/2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_shawn_ray_flex_wheeler.jpg)
Yates truly was, other than his lat spread (from the waist up only), nothing special from the front onstage..
Ronnie however, had a taper that Dorian would have killed for...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/BBingDungeon/98%20olympia/4.jpg)
and quads that make Dorian's look like an amateur's..
Again, I don't really see what all the hype is about Dorian's physique. Here is the best arms forward most muscular I could find:
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy183.jpg)
and once again, I see okay chest, good abs but shitty arms and quads..
Then, you look at Ronnie's version, also taken onstage:
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/dungeon1986/99%20grand%20prix/more%20pics/1999BritishGrandPrix_0070.jpg)
not the greatest shot (the best one is that backstage black and white one, but then all the dorian freaks would cry foul saying it was not taken onstage), but it totally destroy's yates version.
Other than the lat spread, can someone please explain why Dorian was so good from the front again?? Unless you completely ignore arms and legs, I can't really see how dorian could be so special...
I for one, would LOVE to see ronnie vs. Dorian onstage, just to see Ronnie hit a biceps pose..
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/dungeon1986/99%20grand%20prix/1999BritishGrandPrix_0037.jpg)
and have dorian run off the stage in fright!
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NO FUCKING COMPARISON!!
How can anyone in their right mind say that in those pics dorian is the better bb'er?
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That shot is sick.
For comedy's sake, here's the same Yates pose..LOL
Yates has the edge in.....thongs.. :P
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That shot is sick.
For comedy's sake, here's the accompanying Yates shot..LOL
LOOK AT RONNIE, WOW :o :o :o DORIAN IS GETTING SERIOUSLY OWNED THERE.
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As ND would say - according to the "true bodybuilding criteria" of shape, mass, taper and detail, ronnie crushes Yates on all of these except for mass. However, as is obvious, they are both pretty even in terms of mass.
And, as Ronnie did, as Yates got bigger, he got worse:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/BBingDungeon/95%20olympia/2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_shawn_ray_flex_wheeler.jpg)
Yates truly was, other than his lat spread (from the waist up only), nothing special from the front onstage..
Ronnie however, had a taper that Dorian would have killed for...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/BBingDungeon/98%20olympia/4.jpg)
and quads that make Dorian's look like an amateur's..
Again, I don't really see what all the hype is about Dorian's physique. Here is the best arms forward most muscular I could find:
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy183.jpg)
and once again, I see okay chest, good abs but shitty arms and quads..
Then, you look at Ronnie's version, also taken onstage:
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/dungeon1986/99%20grand%20prix/more%20pics/1999BritishGrandPrix_0070.jpg)
not the greatest shot (the best one is that backstage black and white one, but then all the dorian freaks would cry foul saying it was not taken onstage), but it totally destroy's yates version.
Other than the lat spread, can someone please explain why Dorian was so good from the front again?? Unless you completely ignore arms and legs, I can't really see how dorian could be so special...
I for one, would LOVE to see ronnie vs. Dorian onstage, just to see Ronnie hit a biceps pose..
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/dungeon1986/99%20grand%20prix/1999BritishGrandPrix_0037.jpg)
and have dorian run off the stage in fright!
DORIAN IS GETING OWNED IN THOSE COMPARISON SHOTS
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there is only one way to solve this argument, and that is to have them square off on stage................OH yah I almost forgot, they have already and Dorian beat Ron everytime.
DOnt give me "Ron didnt hit his peak BS" as they are almost the exact same age.
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Yeah. too bad we won't be doing that Titus fight... :(
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Yah I was looking forward to that.
What part of Florida are you from? Im heading down there at the end of Feb and would like to train and hit up a few night spots.
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there is only one way to solve this argument, and that is to have them square off on stage................OH yah I almost forgot, they have already and Dorian beat Ron everytime.
DOnt give me "Ron didnt hit his peak BS" as they are almost the exact same age.
IT DOESNT MATTER IF THEY ARE THE SAME AGE DOUCHBAG. WHEN DORIAN WON HIS FIRST OLYMPIA RONNIE PLACED 14TH, SO ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY HE WAS JUST AS GOOD BACK THEN THAN WHEN HE FIRST STARTED WINNING OLYMPIAS? HAHAHA WHAT A FUCKING IDIOT. BUT HEY YATES AND RONNIE ARE THE SAME AGE SO THAT MUST MEAN THEY HIT THEIR PEAKS AT THE SAME TIME ROFL.
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there is only one way to solve this argument, and that is to have them square off on stage................OH yah I almost forgot, they have already and Dorian beat Ron everytime.
DOnt give me "Ron didnt hit his peak BS" as they are almost the exact same age.
Peak is BS? WTF are you smoking? how is that BS? Ronnie was just making it up into the pro ranks when Yates was dominating, getting better every year. Please explain to me how this is BS...
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Peak is BS? WTF are you smoking? how is that BS? Ronnie was just making it up into the pro ranks when Yates was dominating, getting better every year. Please explain to me how this is BS...
EXACTLY, YOU CANT REASON WITH C*NTS LIKE MUSSOLINI THOUGH.
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almost forgot, they have already and Dorian beat Ron everytime.
Zane beat Schwarzenegger. He must have been better.
They reached their peaks at different ages!
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IT DOESNT MATTER IF THEY ARE THE SAME AGE DOUCHBAG. WHEN DORIAN WON HIS FIRST OLYMPIA RONNIE PLACED 14TH, SO ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY HE WAS JUST AS GOOD BACK THEN THAN WHEN HE FIRST STARTED WINNING OLYMPIAS? HAHAHA WHAT A FUCKING IDIOT. BUT HEY YATES AND RONNIE ARE THE SAME AGE SO THAT MUST MEAN THEY HIT THEIR PEAKS AT THE SAME TIME ROFL.
Take it easy on the caps their pal, simmer down you dont want a heart attack now do you? Sounds like I hit a nerve and you are the one who cant be reasoned with, since you resort to personal insults because your argument has no implicit evidence or support.
Face it man Your boy Ron got owned by DY every time they squared off, you even proved my argument by pointing out that Ronnie only place 14th when Dorian won. It just goes to show how Dorian was way ahead of Ron.
All you Ronnie lovers can do is speculate, but the bottom line is Ron was owned everytime it mattered when he stepped on stage with Dorian.
They started training at the same age, its just so happens after Dorian retired, all his closest competition,(Nasser, Kev, Dillet, Ray) who also owned Ron in their primes, where now past their prime, thus leaving Ronnie with little to no competition.
Bottom line When Dorian, Ray, Dillet Nasser and Levron where all at their peaks Ron finished beneath them.
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Zane beat Schwarzenegger. He must have been better.
They reached their peaks at different ages!
Yes but Arnold also beat Zane. How many times did Ron Beat Dorian again??
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i'm getting tired of this stupid what if thread. Let's discuss who would win... Kasparov or Fischer! see if this doesn't kill the thread.
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but Arnold also beat Zane.
Duh! That was the point. Zane's early win, like Yates', was meaningless in hindsight. Go to sleep and figure it out.
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Take it easy on the caps their pal, simmer down you dont want a heart attack now do you? Sounds like I hit a nerve and you are the one who cant be reasoned with, since you resort to personal insults because your argument has no implicit evidence or support.
Face it man Your boy Ron got owned by DY every time they squared off, you even proved my argument by pointing out that Ronnie only place 14th when Dorian won. It just goes to show how Dorian was way ahead of Ron.
All you Ronnie lovers can do is speculate, but the bottom line is Ron was owned everytime it mattered when he stepped on stage with Dorian.
They started training at the same age, its just so happens after Dorian retired, all his closest competition,(Nasser, Kev, Dillet, Ray) who also owned Ron in their primes, where now past their prime, thus leaving Ronnie with little to no competition.
Bottom line When Dorian, Ray, Dillet Nasser and Levron where all at their peaks Ron finished beneath them.
PERPETRATOR:Mussolini
VICTIM:Double XL
Sorry, DoubleXL, but Mussolini just killed you. That reply made you bleed to death, from your anus. ;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Yah I was looking forward to that.
What part of Florida are you from? Im heading down there at the end of Feb and would like to train and hit up a few night spots.
Actually, I'm from Ft.Lauderdale. I had misenderstood your question.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Blade_0011/RonnieVSDorian9.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Blade_0011/RonnieVSDorian8.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Blade_0011/RonnieVSDorian7.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Blade_0011/RonnieVSDorian6.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Blade_0011/RonnieVSDorian5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Blade_0011/RonnieVSDorian4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Blade_0011/RonnieVSDorian3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Blade_0011/RonnieVSDorian2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Blade_0011/RonnieVSDorian1.jpg)
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alright from those pics, Dorian has Ronnie on the side tri's, front lat, and MAYBE the abs and thighs....
also, notices that ALL of Ronnie's pics are from contests, while some of those pics of the infamous black and white yates shots...clearly an advantage for yates...
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Zane beat Schwarzenegger. He must have been better.
They reached their peaks at different ages!
no they did'nt they were both at their best in thier early 30's
do some more research kid before ya make a fool of yourself around here
::)
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when did zane beat schwarzenegger?
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when did zane beat schwarzenegger?
Zane beat schwarzenegger when Arnold was 4 years old at only at stage 3 of Pampers Huggies.
Therefore Zane is far better and would have destroyed Arnold every time they stepped onstage ::).
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when did zane beat schwarzenegger?
1968 Mr Universe. It's one of the things that got Arnold on the right track.
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Take it easy on the caps their pal, simmer down you dont want a heart attack now do you? Sounds like I hit a nerve and you are the one who cant be reasoned with, since you resort to personal insults because your argument has no implicit evidence or support.
Face it man Your boy Ron got owned by DY every time they squared off, you even proved my argument by pointing out that Ronnie only place 14th when Dorian won. It just goes to show how Dorian was way ahead of Ron.
All you Ronnie lovers can do is speculate, but the bottom line is Ron was owned everytime it mattered when he stepped on stage with Dorian.
They started training at the same age, its just so happens after Dorian retired, all his closest competition,(Nasser, Kev, Dillet, Ray) who also owned Ron in their primes, where now past their prime, thus leaving Ronnie with little to no competition.
Bottom line When Dorian, Ray, Dillet Nasser and Levron where all at their peaks Ron finished beneath them.
MELTDOWN
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DORIAN GETTING OWNED
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2741&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2742&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2740&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2743&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2737&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&stc=1)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&stc=1)
IM JUST GOING TO BUMP THIS AGAIN....HOLY FUCK LOOK HOW BAD DORIAN IS GETTING OWNED :o :o :o
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do some more research kid before ya make a fool of yourself around here
What a hoser. OK Farmer Brown.
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ok. its very hard to say who is better, both are great.
i'm one of the biggest dorian fans on this board, and i'll say that big ron could and probably would beat dorian. but he would not blow him away.
people are posting ronnie's pics from his best ever showing, imo the 2k3 Olympia, while people are showing various shots of yates, some from photo shoots, etc. at least post the same pics of him in his best showing.
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people are posting ronnie's pics from his best ever showing, imo the 2k3 Olympia, while people are showing various shots of yates, some from photo shoots, etc. at least post the same pics of him in his best showing.
Okay, here you go, from the 1993 Olympia:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_shawn_ray_flex_wheeler.jpg)
yates showing off his...ummmm..unusual taper... 8)
Anything after 93 is post tear, and therefore crappy by comparison, except for this ingenious pose:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy32.jpg)
It couldn't have been more obvious if Yates tied one arm behind his back! ;)
Kudos to Dorian for being an awesome poser...even if he lacked the physique to go with it...
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :)
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Boy did the judging hold the sport back by awarding yates year after year the title. Just look at flex and shawn, both paradigms of physical perfection and then yates who had mounds of muscle just not in the right places
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Boy did the judging hold the sport back by awarding yates year after year the title. Just look at flex and shawn, both paradigms of physical perfection and then yates who had mounds of muscle just not in the right places
Flex could have beaten Dorian, but it's not fair to say that his physique is better. A big part of bodybuilding is muscularity, and Dorian had that to spare when compared to Flex. Is a guy with a more beautiul physique a better bodybuilder than one who doesen't look as aesthetic but who has a much higher degree of muscular development? Not necessarily.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Flex could have beaten Dorian, but it's not fair to say that his physique is better. A big part of bodybuilding is muscularity, and Dorian had that to spare when compared to Flex. Is a guy with a more beautiul physique a better bodybuilder than one who doesen't look as aesthetic but who has a much higher degree of muscular development? Not necessarily.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
but it can be.
why?
because dorian had more size (and width).
but not better quality.
quality is part of muscularity too. not just physical size.
You, ND and Co cannot seem to understand that in bodybuilding, "muscularity" refers to all the attributes of the muscles themselves:
size
shape
detail
vascularity
not just size.
If your definition is correct, then any monster powerlifter would win 20 Mr. Olympias because of their 'higher degree of muscular development"..
which of course is stupid.
Now can you guys see your error?
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Boy did the judging hold the sport back by awarding yates year after year the title. Just look at flex and shawn, both paradigms of physical perfection and then yates who had mounds of muscle just not in the right places
what is REALLY SCARY is that he was PRE TEAR in 93..
the judging for some of the subsequent contests was justs ridiculous: :-\
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NOTHING ELSE NEEDS TO BE SAID
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50084.0;id=51388;image])
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy182.jpg)
I see a much bigger and thicker back in this particular pose is what I see.
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but it can be.
why?
because dorian had more size (and width).
but not better quality.
quality is part of muscularity too. not just physical size.
You, ND and Co cannot seem to understand that in bodybuilding, "muscularity" refers to all the attributes of the muscles themselves:
size
shape
detail
vascularity
not just size.
If your definition is correct, then any monster powerlifter would win 20 Mr. Olympias because of their 'higher degree of muscular development"..
which of course is stupid.
Now can you guys see your error?
Hulkster, my point is that Dorian had a different structure than Flex, but his struture was close to perfect and he packed lots of muscle to it. Just because Dorian's frame was not as aesthetic as Flex's it doesen't mean that it was less symmetrical. Again, Dorian's structure was close to perfect except for his wide hips.
And who said Dorian's muscles lacked quality? Nasser was 280 lbs and a 260 lbs Dorian out-muscled him. Why? Because Dorian's muscles had lots of quality to them: they were very separated and looked like stone. As for shape, I prefer Dorian's, and so do many judges. Dorian defeated many guys with rounder muscles than him, so your point is nil.
Some judges might prefer Ronnie's and Flex's round muscles; some might prefer Dorian's. Why can't you understand this? Like I said before, Dorian defeated several guys with better "shape"(according to you), so this clearly points out that having round muscles does not make you immediately a winner in the judges eyes. Hope this helps!
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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no, you are right.
round muscles don't win contests by themselves....
however, when you take a 257 pound frame with narrow hips and wide lats, stick in some round muscle bellies, throw in some super detail and vascularity, and you get this:
an unbeatable combination.
note the word 'combination'
you guys never seen to understand that traits in bodybuilding do nothing by themselves. the traits must complement other traits.
so, we know dorian beat guys with rounder muscles...but none of those guys ALSO had size and width like Ronnie...
advantage: Ronnie:
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no, you are right.
round muscles don't win contests by themselves....
however, when you take a 257 pound frame with narrow hips and wide lats, stick in some round muscle bellies, throw in some super detail and vascularity, and you get this:
an unbeatable combination.
note the word 'combination'
you guys never seen to understand that traits in bodybuilding do nothing by themselves. the traits must complement other traits.
so, we know dorian beat guys with rounder muscles...but none of those guys ALSO had size and width like Ronnie...
advantage: Ronnie:
Hulkster, the bottom line of a bodybuilding show is assessing muscularity&symmetry from different angles, and the bottom line is that Dorian in his 1995 form is more muscular&symmetrical than Ronnie from more angles and in more poses. The judges wouldn't look at Coleman and decide that, since he had round muscle bellies and size, that he's better.
First, like I said, round muscles are not a universal taste among judges, so that's a stretch. Secondly, that Dorian at 260 lbs would defeat a 257 lbs Ronnie in muscularity is a given, since Dorian defeated 280 lbs guys in that category. Dorian is not missing any muscles in his body except for his torn biceps, and Ronnie is lacking in calves, so there goes symmetry. That would be a tie.
Basically, your whole argument boils down to size with shape, but that's nonsense because shape is a taste, and although the 1999 Ronnie is roughly as big as the 1995 Dorian, the latter is still bigger and looks more muscular. So, in essence: shape wouldn't necessarily tip the scales in Ronnie's favor, Coleman still gets out-muscled by Dorian and Yates is more complete from more angles. What do you have left? Dorian defeats Coleman in the symmetry round and in most mandatories in the muscularity round, and shape is arbitrary.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Oh NO! Another Dorian vs Ronnie thread which will be 1000pages long!
Mods,delate this thread. We have one realy long already.
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Oh NO! Another Dorian vs Ronnie thread which will be 1000pages long!
Mods,delate this thread. We have one realy long already.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...not even racial slurrs and threats of violence get deleted on getbig, let alone a thread. ;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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there is only one way to solve this argument, and that is to have them square off on stage................OH yah I almost forgot, they have already and Dorian beat Ron everytime.
DOnt give me "Ron didnt hit his peak BS" as they are almost the exact same age.
you must be dumb are you.
for one you said that the argument hulkster presented was conjecture. that ronnie hann't hit his peak, i would agree with this argument but you say its open ended and subjective.
then you claim based on yates previously beating ronnie, he would continue to do so, which is also conjecture making your argument by your own admission moot.
the age thing is also moot, people dont progress at the same time, to assume this is to be a moron.
also, others beat ronnie when he had not hit his peak. shawn, nasser, dillet etc etc.. so lets use your logic. dorian beat ronnie everytime they met, so you assume or base you argument that, that scenario would continue. no it wouldnt. if you accept that then you would have to accept that everyone who beat ronnie would also continue beating ronnie. that is, shawn would always beat ronnie, nasser, kevin etcc... but we know that this never happened in fact the exact opposite happened. so ronnie did get better, your argument is stupid. he clearly never hit his peak and he began beating everyone he did not previously beat.
your arguments are weak.