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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The True Adonis on December 18, 2013, 01:48:09 PM
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http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/18/bitcoin-plummets-china-payment-processors-digital-cryptocurrency
Digital cryptocurrency has lost almost 50% of its value overnight after BTC China said it could no longer accept deposits in the Chinese currency
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Vince G will not be pleased.
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Vince is starting up a new ecommerce site as we speak.
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Dubai, India -- +91 22 2754 6669
^
Fixed
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Why would China do that?
I understand one reason is to focus on their goods consumer industry and move away from the service industry to build up a larger infrastructure but it seems like the world right now was competing for this new technology and then USA FinCEN made bitcoin miners a money service business (regulation restricting bitcoin) and now China doesn't want banks and payment processing institutions to deal with bitcoin at all.
What risks does this private non centralized alternative currency strike to larger countries economies? Its too small to compete with the centralized currencies, or is it? It's impact on exchange rates appears to be sustained within it's own rules. SilkRoad was shutdown eliminating a majority of the bad apples and even the senate hearing majority opnions stated cash is the best way to launder money. I'm stumped, it's a taxable asset (or can be), great idea and innovation, even is traceable and not as anonymous as people once thought. Seems like the only concern is volatility, but it's a non fixed alternative currency as opposed to a fixed rate centralized currency so it's going to be more volatile by nature.
I wonder if this was how the internet was viewed in it's beginning stages of public use
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Vince is starting up a new ecommerce site as we speak.
LOL!
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There goes Vinces billions.
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I just always imagined it would go up forever.
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We all know Vince is going to claim he lost millions due to this, and that's why he's still so poor.
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Vince G will not be pleased.
No I'm not pleased but I still have faith in it
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Bitcoin is the currency of the future. Early investors will be multi millionaires.
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Bitcoin is the currency of the future. Early investors will be multi millionaires.
What evidence is there for this claim?
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http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/18/bitcoin-plummets-china-payment-processors-digital-cryptocurrency
Digital cryptocurrency has lost almost 50% of its value overnight after BTC China said it could no longer accept deposits in the Chinese currency
It has already had a massive recovery.
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What evidence is there for this claim?
He's right. I just don't know if it's "Bitcoin" but it's going to be a cryptocurrency for sure. Greenspan and government research from back in the 1960's to when the Internet Bill of 1991 was implemented signaled a digital currency for the future. Th e GAO in fact insists the government start using more technology driven procedures to reduce transaction costs and the treasury dept. must make a currency in the future that is "accesible to all" (blind handicapped, etc.)
I would for sure enjoy hearing from some older members on their thoughts and views of when "e-cash" started coming out because people didn't believe in debit cards and pre paid value cards back in the early 90s.
We are at an interesting point in finances that is for sure and it's all because people don't believe in a centralized currency where government keeps printing "good" money to drive out "bad" money.
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lol.
haha.
well not even that but the delfationary tendency throughout this very year should tell everything.
if ppl were honest and say yaeh ok its speculation bubble and ill play, thats fair play. but not telling its better than the the us dollar.thats delusional.
the us dollar is backed by men at arms, period
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lol.
haha.
well not even that but the delfationary tendency throughout this very year should tell everything.
if ppl were honest and say yaeh ok its speculation bubble and ill play, thats fair play. but not telling its better than the the us dollar.thats delusional.
the us dollar is backed by men at arms, period
You are a dumb fuk, period.
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why does the description of bitcoin and its processes' have to be so lengthy
if it was legit it should be easily understandable in 2-3 small paragraphs
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When in doubt about money......do what Swiss Bankers do.
;D
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Anyone who invested in this chinese backed scheme deserved to get fleeced. I read an article on a huge operation in Hong Kong where they just mine coins all day with a large team of coders. Fuck this shit.
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Anyone who invested in this chinese backed scheme deserved to get fleeced. I read an article on a huge operation in Hong Kong where they just mine coins all day with a large team of coders. Fuck this shit.
A fool and his money are soon parted...
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We all know Vince is going to claim he lost millions due to this, and that's why he's still so poor.
at least he gets to sleep next to Queen Vissy each night.
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He's right. I just don't know if it's "Bitcoin" but it's going to be a cryptocurrency for sure. Greenspan and government research from back in the 1960's to when the Internet Bill of 1991 was implemented signaled a digital currency for the future. Th e GAO in fact insists the government start using more technology driven procedures to reduce transaction costs and the treasury dept. must make a currency in the future that is "accesible to all" (blind handicapped, etc.)
I would for sure enjoy hearing from some older members on their thoughts and views of when "e-cash" started coming out because people didn't believe in debit cards and pre paid value cards back in the early 90s.
We are at an interesting point in finances that is for sure and it's all because people don't believe in a centralized currency where government keeps printing "good" money to drive out "bad" money.
That E Cash was based on real cash, debit is your money. BitCoins are make believe currency that hackers mine and get by adding a hash to the end of some code. It is the ultimate Pyramid scam. The early adopters are making all the cash while fools rush in to make a little cash on the hype.
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http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/18/bitcoin-plummets-china-payment-processors-digital-cryptocurrency
Digital cryptocurrency has lost almost 50% of its value overnight after BTC China said it could no longer accept deposits in the Chinese currency
Norway has said the same
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That E Cash was based on real cash, debit is your money. BitCoins are make believe currency that hackers mine and get by adding a hash to the end of some code. It is the ultimate Pyramid scam. The early adopters are making all the cash while fools rush in to make a little cash on the hype.
Yeah I know, but even then when it was coming out (Mondak etc.) people were talking about how it's a scam that will cause all types of exchange rate issues, inflation issues, competition for currency, etc.
I get what you're saying on the pyramid structure.
The government also looked into it as a ponzi scheme and determined since their was no "one" authority of bitcoin it did not fit the classification of a ponzi scheme.
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Yeah I know, but even then when it was coming out (Mondak etc.) people were talking about how it's a scam that will cause all types of exchange rate issues, inflation issues, competition for currency, etc.
I get what you're saying on the pyramid structure.
The government also looked into it as a ponzi scheme and determined since their was no "one" authority of bitcoin it did not fit the classification of a ponzi scheme.
That's the main issue. You can hold a lot of bitcoin and no one would know. Who is holding on to the majority? Can they be trusted? Imagine if this got to tens of thousands and then they sold it all off. The currency would crumble and no one would know why.
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I just don't know if it's "Bitcoin" but it's going to be a cryptocurrency for sure.
Well, the discussion is about Bitcoin, not cryptocurrencies more generally. And seemingly, its utility at present is solely as a speculative vehicle from which to derive cash and dopamine surges -- not as a store of value. It still isn't clear to me what makes people think its rise is inevitable: for example, won't governments' (primarily the USG) rejecting bitcoin and shutting it out of the traditional financial system inherently limit its growth? How can we be so sure this won't happen?
Greenspan and government research from back in the 1960's to when the Internet Bill of 1991 was implemented signaled a digital currency for the future. Th e GAO in fact insists the government start using more technology driven procedures to reduce transaction costs and the treasury dept. must make a currency in the future that is "accesible to all" (blind handicapped, etc.)
Do you have any links/references to the above-mentioned information?
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why does the description of bitcoin and its processes' have to be so lengthy
if it was legit it should be easily understandable in 2-3 small paragraphs
This is an excellent point!
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This is an excellent point!
most coherent post from the Falcon in a long while.
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This is an excellent point!
[Note: I'm not saying that bitcoin is "legit" - I have only read a few things on the topic and, although I understand some of the cryptography behind it, I don't know if it's "legit" or what that even means in this context.]
Right... because things that are "legit" are easily understandable in 2-3 small paragraphs. Such is the case with quantum mechanics, computational fluid dynamics, vector spaces, lambda calculus, external polyphase mergesort, and so on. But onwards...
If you really wanted the 30 second executive summary, how about the following (slightly edited) intro from wikipedia, which is only one paragraph:
Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer payment network and digital currency with a public transaction log introduced in 2009. It is sometimes called a cryptocurrency because it uses public-key cryptography. When paying with bitcoin, no actual exchange takes place between buyer and seller. Instead, the buyer requests an update to a public transaction log, the blockchain. This master list of all transactions shows who owns what bitcoins currently and in the past and is maintained by a decentralized network that verifies and timestamps payments using a proof-of-work system. The operators of this network, known as "miners", are rewarded with transaction fees and newly minted bitcoins.
This accurately describes what happens, at a high enough level of abstraction for just about anyone.
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Right... because things that are "legit" are easily understandable in 2-3 small paragraphs. Such is the case with quantum mechanics, computational fluid dynamics, vector spaces, lambda calculus, external polyphase mergesort, and so on.
Besides, if you really wanted the 30 second executive summary, how about the following (slightly edited) intro from wikipedia, which is only one paragraph:
This accurately describes what happens, at a high enough level of abstraction for just about anyone.
the fact China is throwing a shit load of hardware and people to mine this is enough to stay out.
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the fact China is throwing a shit load of hardware and people to mine this is enough to stay out.
It's my understanding that the point at which mining became no longer viable without massive investments is well in the past. From a couple of quick back-of-the-napkin calculations, buying the coins outright seems significantly cheaper than mining them.
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Here is my summary.
Bitcoin is for morons who think they will get rich but most likely won`t.
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Can someone please explain bitcoins to me?
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From my previous post, here's the 30 second executive summary, from the slightly edited intro from the wikipedia article:
Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer payment network and digital currency with a public transaction log introduced in 2009. It is sometimes called a cryptocurrency because it uses public-key cryptography. When paying with bitcoin, no actual exchange takes place between buyer and seller. Instead, the buyer requests an update to a public transaction log, the blockchain. This master list of all transactions shows who owns what bitcoins currently and in the past and is maintained by a decentralized network that verifies and timestamps payments using a proof-of-work system. The operators of this network, known as "miners", are rewarded with transaction fees and newly minted bitcoins.
In addition to the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin) you may find this page of use, since it includes an infographic that seems pretty explanatory: http://www.ibtimes.com/best-bitcoin-explanation-infographic-weve-seen-yet-1486416 (http://)
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[Note: I'm not saying that bitcoin is "legit" - I have only read a few things on the topic and, although I understand some of the cryptography behind it, I don't know if it's "legit" or what that even means in this context.]
Right... because things that are "legit" are easily understandable in 2-3 small paragraphs. Such is the case with quantum mechanics, computational fluid dynamics, vector spaces, lambda calculus, external polyphase mergesort, and so on. But onwards...
If you really wanted the 30 second executive summary, how about the following (slightly edited) intro from wikipedia, which is only one paragraph:
This accurately describes what happens, at a high enough level of abstraction for just about anyone.
its funny how you are always wrong
you could explain how a car works in 2-3 paragraphs
same with being a carpenter
plumber
ect
the problem is alot of people dont know how to write good enough to teach
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ok this makes 'some' sense youre getting warmer avxo, i like your style man , ruthless , condescending , angry, hardworking to make your point even if youre not right you put in the work, i liked this quote about bit coins was a pleasant read thanks for posting
Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer payment network and digital currency with a public transaction log introduced in 2009. It is sometimes called a cryptocurrency because it uses public-key cryptography. When paying with bitcoin, no actual exchange takes place between buyer and seller. Instead, the buyer requests an update to a public transaction log, the blockchain. This master list of all transactions shows who owns what bitcoins currently and in the past and is maintained by a decentralized network that verifies and timestamps payments using a proof-of-work system. The operators of this network, known as "miners", are rewarded with transaction fees and newly minted bitcoins.
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It's my understanding that the point at which mining became no longer viable without massive investments is well in the past. From a couple of quick back-of-the-napkin calculations, buying the coins outright seems significantly cheaper than mining them.
Not when it comes to China. They pay nothing to the workers, they build everything themselves, all homegrown computers. The cost to them is next to nothing in hopes of controlling bitcoin. The shitty part is they may already own the majority but there is no way to tell.
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Not when it comes to China. They pay nothing to the workers, they build everything themselves, all homegrown computers. The cost to them is next to nothing in hopes of controlling bitcoin. The shitty part is they may already own the majority but there is no way to tell.
You're missing the point. It's not an issue of how much it costs to pay workers. It's the cost of the hardware. You can no longer effectively mine without using custom-designed application-specific integrated circuits that are submerged in high-end specialized non-conductive cooling fluids and are typically deployed by the thousands in a data-center. Take a look at this article (https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2013/12/05/hong-kong-immersion-cooling-site-bitcoin-mining/).
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Skeet Ball tickets are worth more than Bitcoins.
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so in order to mine new bitcoins, the math "problems"/equations/algorithms get progressively longer
in order to acheive new bit coins one must solve each progressively longer equation to unlock new bitcoins
these math problems are so unimaginably long that you need tons of super computers running and linked up.
it creates a demand for stronger computers and networking and resources to solve these math problems
Is that it?
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so in order to mine new bitcoins, the math "problems"/equations/algorithms get progressively longer
in order to acheive new bit coins one must solve each progressively longer equation to unlock new bitcoins
these math problems are so unimaginably long that you need tons of super computers running and linked up.
it creates a demand for stronger computers and networking and resources to solve these math problems
Is that it?
Dumb as shit isn`t it? All Obama would have to do is take a few drones and blow up the "Bitcoin" centers. Then there will be no more Bit Coin.
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Microsoft Points are more valuable than Bitcoins.
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Dumb as shit isn`t it? All Obama would have to do is take a few drones and blow up the "Bitcoin" centers. Then there will be no more Bit Coin.
it sounds like a scam if its not a scam then its really dumb as shit to do all them calculations, people will just give up trying to compute longer and longer equations
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From my previous post, here's the 30 second executive summary, from the slightly edited intro from the wikipedia article:
In addition to the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin) you may find this page of use, since it includes an infographic that seems pretty explanatory: http://www.ibtimes.com/best-bitcoin-explanation-infographic-weve-seen-yet-1486416 (http://)
Thanks bro :)
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Interestingly enough, I just checked one of my gold 1oz coins...and, yep, it weighs exactly the same as it did before Bitcoin crashed. Can exchange it for around the same amount of goods too...weird.
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Bitchcoins is the new trend.
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Yes, the price of converting fiat dollars to bitcoin dropped. The question is, are you smart enough to get in on it? The price dropped because the Chinese government hand-cuffed its citizens from converting to bitcoin, similar to them banning citizens from owning gold in the past. Meanwhile Denmark came out this week by stating it will put no restrictions on bitcoin. Germany has deemed it private money with no restrictions. China will come around eventually. Bitcoin isn’t a fad. It’s faster, safer, easier, cheaper and exponentially more powerful than any other currency. It is the logical evolution of currency. Its here to stay some might say with perfect timing. All debt based fiat currencies have a limited lifetime. The US dollar is at that limit. Overstock.com just announced they will be accepting bitcoin next year. Word on the street is Paypal, Amazon and Ebay will be accepting bitcoin in the not so distant future. My prediction; over 1 million equivalent fiat units for one full unit of bitcoin. At that price bitcoin will be extremely stable. Nobody will be flipping it; they’ll be trading it for goods and services. There are some smart dudes on this board. Do your research but don’t take too long. Buy it. You haven't seen anything yet as to where the price is headed.
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and to those concerned, Bitcoin isn't a ponzi
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Yes, the price of converting fiat dollars to bitcoin dropped. The question is, are you smart enough to get in on it? The price dropped because the Chinese government hand-cuffed its citizens from converting to bitcoin, similar to them banning citizens from owning gold in the past. Meanwhile Denmark came out this week by stating it will put no restrictions on bitcoin. Germany has deemed it private money with no restrictions. China will come around eventually. Bitcoin isn’t a fad. It’s faster, safer, easier, cheaper and exponentially more powerful than any other currency. It is the logical evolution of currency. Its here to stay some might say with perfect timing. All debt based fiat currencies have a limited lifetime. The US dollar is at that limit. Overstock.com just announced they will be accepting bitcoin next year. Word on the street is Paypal, Amazon and Ebay will be accepting bitcoin in the not so distant future. My prediction; over 1 million equivalent fiat units for one full unit of bitcoin. At that price bitcoin will be extremely stable. Nobody will be flipping it; they’ll be trading it for goods and services. There are some smart dudes on this board. Do your research but don’t take too long. Buy it. You haven't seen anything yet as to where the price is headed.
As I said before, as a computer scientist, I find Bitcoin technologically and theoretically interesting. As a practical person, I don't find it compelling as a store of value or a medium of exchange, at least for me and for the time being. Your mileage may vary.
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Have fun with that. (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Tjn2n1CMss0/TKxuXEe-OHI/AAAAAAAAFBs/lR-31ZVEa7o/s1600/german-inflation.jpg)
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As I said before, as a computer scientist, I find Bitcoin technologically and theoretically interesting. As a practical person, I don't find it compelling as a store of value or, for the time being, a medium of exchange. Your mileage may vary.
I understand your point of view. Understand though, there are enough people out there that disagree with your feelings to drive the price of bitcoin to the moon. That alone makes it worth getting some. That’s the investing philosophy made Jimmy Rogers rich.
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I understand your point of view. Understand though, there are enough people out there that disagree with your feelings to drive the price of bitcoin to the moon. That alone makes it worth getting some. That’s the investing philosophy made Jimmy Rogers rich.
Where are legit places to buyt this stuff? I keep hearing about mining. WTF does that mean?
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Have fun with that. (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Tjn2n1CMss0/TKxuXEe-OHI/AAAAAAAAFBs/lR-31ZVEa7o/s1600/german-inflation.jpg)
Thank you for posting a photo of the inevitable end to every debt based fiat currency. That is the Reichsmark those kids are playing with after it went through hyperinflation. Bitcoin isn’t debt based. It can’t be inflated or devalued. It rewards savers as opposed to punishing them. Have a look at what the Federal Reserve is doing to the US dollar right now. The next photo might well be kids doing the same with US dollars.
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I understand your point of view. Understand though, there are enough people out there that disagree with your feelings to drive the price of bitcoin to the moon. That alone makes it worth getting some. That’s the investing philosophy made Jimmy Rogers rich.
Right - I did say that it wasn't for me. If others want to buy Bitcoin, whether as a store of value or for investing or because they don't care for fiat currencies then more power to them.
I don't fall for the "so many others are doing it" argument though. Appeals to popularity are logical fallacies and I don't think that it's automatically wise to follow the crowd.
For me it boils down to how easy it is to acquire (moderately if you buy, practically impossible if you mine) and how well it's likely to function as a store of value (unclear in the long term, but ridiculously volatile in the short- and mid-term) and medium of exchange (somewhat useful within the community of Bitcoin enthusiasts but not widespread adoption as a form of payment).
You seem pretty familiar with the subject, so I have a question: Are there any alternatives to Bitcoin beyond the blatant copy-cats?
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Right - I did say that it wasn't for me. If others want to buy Bitcoin, whether as a store of value or for investing or because they don't care for fiat currencies then more power to them.
I don't fall for the "so many others are doing it" argument though. Appeals to popularity are logical fallacies and I don't think that it's automatically wise to follow the crowd.
For me it boils down to how easy it is to acquire (moderately if you buy, practically impossible if you mine) and how well it's likely to function as a store of value (unclear in the long term, but ridiculously volatile in the short- and mid-term) and medium of exchange (somewhat useful within the community of Bitcoin enthusiasts but not widespread adoption as a form of payment).
You seem pretty familiar with the subject, so I have a question: Are there any alternatives to Bitcoin beyond the blatant copy-cats?
This is probably my favorite Fiat, the Fiat 8V.
(http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre/fiat/8v_supersonic/1954_fiat_8v_supersonic_17_m.jpg)
Luckily the United States has decided to back their money with Fiats.
This one is also very valuable. Probably have extra of this one at Fort Knox. Another valuable one is this 8V. (http://www.ritzsite.nl/Fiat_8V/1954_Fiat_8V_berlinetta_Zagato.JPG)
As long as the United States has an adequate supply of collector Fiats backing the currency, I see no reason for any panic.
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This is probably my favorite Fiat, the Fiat 8V.
(http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre/fiat/8v_supersonic/1954_fiat_8v_supersonic_17_m.jpg)
Luckily the United States has decided to back their money with Fiats.
This one is also very valuable. Probably have extra of this one at Fort Knox. Another valuable one is this 8V. (http://www.ritzsite.nl/Fiat_8V/1954_Fiat_8V_berlinetta_Zagato.JPG)
As long as the United States has an adequate supply of collector Fiats backing the currency, I see no reason for any panic.
;D
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This is probably my favorite Fiat, the Fiat 8V. Luckily the United States has decided to back their money with Fiats.
This one is also very valuable. Probably have extra of this one at Fort Knox. Another valuable one is this 8V. (http://www.ritzsite.nl/Fiat_8V/1954_Fiat_8V_berlinetta_Zagato.JPG)
As long as the United States has an adequate supply of collector Fiats backing the currency, I see no reason for any panic.
Unlike you I do not believe that every currency needs to be commodity-backed. If some people see value in Bitcoin, then that's fine by me; they will transact with those who also see value in Bitcoin. If they don't, they won't.
Inherently, I see no difference between a dollar bill (ink on paper) and a Bitcoin (numbers in a database) in that they're both fiat currencies. You can argue that the "full-faith and credit" of the United States Government means something and makes it better than Bitcoin. Perhaps that argument holds water, perhaps it doesn't. But that's, largely, irrelevant too.
Nobody is forcing you to buy or hold Bitcoin, at least as far as I can tell. So what's the problem here?
P.S.: That's a beautiful car.
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Interestingly enough, I just checked one of my gold 1oz coins...and, yep, it weighs exactly the same as it did before Bitcoin crashed. Can exchange it for around the same amount of goods too...weird.
You can exchange that gold for about a third less USD than you could on 1 Jan, and hence for about a third less goods. The bitcoin has increased 52x in value during the same period, growing steadily in logarthmic terms with no definite sign of a slowdown.
But don't let such facts interrupt your snide attempt to be a smarty pants non-conformist ("the Fed is evil, gold is real money, blah blah blah"). ::)
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Where are legit places to buyt this stuff? I keep hearing about mining. WTF does that mean?
intel getting more rich is what it means
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Unlike you I do not believe that every currency needs to be commodity-backed. If some people see value in Bitcoin, then that's fine by me; they will transact with those who also see value in Bitcoin. If they don't, they won't.
Inherently, I see no difference between a dollar bill (ink on paper) and a Bitcoin (numbers in a database) in that they're both fiat currencies. You can argue that the "full-faith and credit" of the United States Government means something and makes it better than Bitcoin. Perhaps that argument holds water, perhaps it doesn't. But that's, largely, irrelevant too.
Nobody is forcing you to buy or hold Bitcoin, at least as far as I can tell. So what's the problem here?
P.S.: That's a beautiful car.
Damn right that is a beautiful car. The United States Department of Treasury owns nearly all of them and they are restoring a few more. Ever since the United States decided to go to the Fiat currency, its been nothing but smooth sailing. Bitcoin doesn`t even have a virtual Fiat from Gran Turismo backing it up. Thats how shitty it is.
Also, Fiat is building a special model for the United States this year and it will be stored at the Federal Reserve building.
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You can exchange that gold for about a third less USD than you could on 1 Jan, and hence for about a third less goods. The bitcoin has increased 52x in value during the same period, growing steadily in logarthmic terms with no definite sign of a slowdown.
But don't let such facts interrupt your snide attempt to be a smarty pants non-conformist ("the Fed is evil, gold is real money, blah blah blah"). ::)
ROFLMAO.
Which one of you is the greater non-conformist?
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lots of clowns in this thread who think they re professional economists cause they ve been reading zerohedge for a month lol...
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Right - I did say that it wasn't for me. If others want to buy Bitcoin, whether as a store of value or for investing or because they don't care for fiat currencies then more power to them.
I don't fall for the "so many others are doing it" argument though. Appeals to popularity are logical fallacies and I don't think that it's automatically wise to follow the crowd.
For me it boils down to how easy it is to acquire (moderately if you buy, practically impossible if you mine) and how well it's likely to function as a store of value (unclear in the long term, but ridiculously volatile in the short- and mid-term) and medium of exchange (somewhat useful within the community of Bitcoin enthusiasts but not widespread adoption as a form of payment).
You seem pretty familiar with the subject, so I have a question: Are there any alternatives to Bitcoin beyond the blatant copy-cats?
There’s been talk of JP Morgan or some other entity making a crypto currency and forcing its use. The good news is it’s no threat to bitcoin. Bitcoin’s strength is peer-to-peer architecture as opposed a possible centralized currency created by JPM. JP Morgan would have a hard time convincing Germans that they must use Diamon Dollars or enforcing banking laws regarding the use of their currency in Russia. There are already company specific currencies being used out there like Air Miles. Amazon may have tried a company specific currency that didn’t do well. It’s the people accepting the medium of exchange that give it value. I equate this to the ingame currencies used in games like WoW. Incidentally, I made thousands of fiat dollars selling ingame currency to people in the early days of Everquest. One form of currency (US dollars) was being converted to another (ingame platinum) and the people using it in the game gave it its value. Bitcoin is worldwide, not country wide, store wide or game wide. It has the potential to goto unimaginable heights.
Liberty Reserve was a digital currency from a few years ago, shutdown/criminalized by the US government because the idea represented a threat to the US dollar. Bitcoin would have suffered the same fate if it was centralized. There are a lot of other crypto copycats out there right now like you say but at this point with the infrastructure already in place bitcoin will be the obvious winner ala facebook, youtube etc. Its open source so if it has to be tweaked, it can be. Some cryptos might play minor roles to bitcoin like Litecoin. One more thing, the people supporting bitcoin represent the brightest this world has. It will succeed and there’s nothing the US Gov’t. or Federal Reserve can do about it.
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Thank you for posting a photo of the inevitable end to every debt based fiat currency. That is the Reichsmark those kids are playing with after it went through hyperinflation. Bitcoin isn’t debt based. It can’t be inflated or devalued. It rewards savers as opposed to punishing them. Have a look at what the Federal Reserve is doing to the US dollar right now. The next photo might well be kids doing the same with US dollars.
Actually, Bitcoin might not be as safe as many believe...not from an encryption standpoint but from a manipulation standpoint. It could become regulated by .govs or made illegal which will distort its value and transactionalbility. Since its a publicly traded commodity now an ETF could be built around it. Paper ETFs heavily manipulate the markets by pumping/dumping, shorting, cornering, and front running. It could also suffer from fraction reserve lending. So now you have 10 pieces of paper BitCoin for every 1 "real" BitCoin. This heavily favors the big market players. It could also suffer crypto currency competition. BitCoin is hard for the avg. person to understand. Its based on complex mathematical algorithms while the average Joe flips burgers for a living. How practical is transacting in 0.0000034% of a Bitcoin really going to be? And it will require that type of everyday activity to get buy in as a competing currency. Will Grandma and Grandpa understand the concepts or folks living outside the technological revolution of the last 15 years?
I respect the concept of BitCoin and suspect that concept will play a large role in the decentralization society is currently going through but as of now it remains a speculative investment with no historical context.
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Where are legit places to buyt this stuff? I keep hearing about mining. WTF does that mean?
There are many online exchanges you can use to convert any quantity of any fiat currency to bitcoin. Mtgox is one of the largest based in Japan I believe. As for mining; in the early days of bitcoin, a home user could use a single computer and effectively mine bitcoin by solving a computer algorithm. The user was rewarded with blocks of bitcoin. Bitcoin is programmed to get progressively harder to mine using more elaborate set ups. At this point a single user can no longer effectively mine it. It’s easier just to convert US dollars to bitcoin. You can also buy bitcoin on ebay but it’s more expensive. The only people that buy it there are those that don’t have access to an online exchange for whatever the reasons.
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There are many online exchanges you can use to convert any quantity of any fiat currency to bitcoin. Mtgox is one of the largest based in Japan I believe. As for mining; in the early days of bitcoin, a home user could use a single computer and effectively mine bitcoin by solving a computer algorithm. The user was rewarded with blocks of bitcoin. Bitcoin is programmed to get progressively harder to mine using more elaborate set ups. At this point a single user can no longer effectively mine it. It’s easier just to convert US dollars to bitcoin. You can also buy bitcoin on ebay but it’s more expensive. The only people that buy it there are those that don’t have access to an online exchange for whatever the reasons.
Thanks. Max Kaiser seems to agree with you about it going up to near 1 million fiat dollars for a bit coin. I couldn't imagine that but it's not like the dollar is going to be around much longer.
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Thanks. Max Kaiser seems to agree with you about it going up to near 1 million fiat dollars for a bit coin. I couldn't imagine that but it's not like the dollar is going to be around much longer.
Anyone else see the irony in Wiggs joining a discussion about money....
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ROFLMAO.
Which one of you is the greater non-conformist?
My friend, though neckbeardianism -- a cluster of unsubstantiated beliefs that economists laugh at ("another crisis is imminent, imminent hyperinflation is around the corner, fiat money is dead") -- underwrites both support for gold and bitcoin, I am not a subscriber, and am therefore less non-comformist than Mr Doom.
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Thanks. Max Kaiser seems to agree with you about it going up to near 1 million fiat dollars for a bit coin. I couldn't imagine that but it's not like the dollar is going to be around much longer.
He’s correct. The math is easy. Currently the market cap on bitcoin is only 10 billion dollars. That’s pocket change. To compare, the Federal Reserve is printing 85 billion dollars of new fiat digital paper per month. The market cap on bitcoin is worldwide. It could easily hit 1 trillion with little effort. At 1 trillion the value of a single full unit of bitcoin would be 50k. At that point I expect to see greater stability in the price. I also expect the eventual market cap to be way north of 1 trillion.
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Yes, the price of converting fiat dollars to bitcoin dropped. The question is, are you smart enough to get in on it? The price dropped because the Chinese government hand-cuffed its citizens from converting to bitcoin, similar to them banning citizens from owning gold in the past. Meanwhile Denmark came out this week by stating it will put no restrictions on bitcoin. Germany has deemed it private money with no restrictions. China will come around eventually. Bitcoin isn’t a fad. It’s faster, safer, easier, cheaper and exponentially more powerful than any other currency. It is the logical evolution of currency. Its here to stay some might say with perfect timing. All debt based fiat currencies have a limited lifetime. The US dollar is at that limit. Overstock.com just announced they will be accepting bitcoin next year. Word on the street is Paypal, Amazon and Ebay will be accepting bitcoin in the not so distant future. My prediction; over 1 million equivalent fiat units for one full unit of bitcoin. At that price bitcoin will be extremely stable. Nobody will be flipping it; they’ll be trading it for goods and services. There are some smart dudes on this board. Do your research but don’t take too long. Buy it. You haven't seen anything yet as to where the price is headed.
I've yet to see any firm numbers behind various claims of the bitcoin's future value. Can you direct me to any such analysis -- based on market cap, adoption rate, % used for transacting vs. mining, etc. -- to indicate that in fact, it is humanly possible for btcusd to go to $1 mil? That sounds like a very outlandish claim.
That you apparently subscribe to certain dubious propositions (e.g., that the Fed is significantly devaluing the USD -- even though inflation was a whopping 1.2% this year, with similarly low values for other QE years) that go against mainstream economic thought doesn't seem to help your case.
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Can I pick one of these up when I go buy my purple drank and lottery ticket?
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how is the curent bitcoins wealth distributed?
go see.
no more questions.
ever heard of deflation?
ever informed on the issue how currencys are backed up, by what?
lol@where can i get bitcoins.but already believing in it.lol,this is good.
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Nonbelievers listen to Gordon Gekko on the concept of wealth being explained to young Bud Fox in the movie Wall Street –
“Money is transferred from one perception to another”.
“The illusion has become real and the more real it becomes the more desperate they want it”.
Apply it to Bitcoin.
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I've yet to see any firm numbers behind various claims of the bitcoin's future value. Can you direct me to any such analysis -- based on market cap, adoption rate, % used for transacting vs. mining, etc. -- to indicate that in fact, it is humanly possible for btcusd to go to $1 mil? That sounds like a very outlandish claim.
That you apparently subscribe to certain dubious propositions (e.g., that the Fed is significantly devaluing the USD -- even though inflation was a whopping 1.2% this year, with similarly low values for other QE years) that go against mainstream economic thought doesn't seem to help your case.
Bitcoin doesn’t rely on the inflation rate of the US dollar to increase in value. During the past year of official 1.2% inflation the price of bitcoin went from ~30 to as high as ~1200. It will continue to go up in value. In the event the dollar starts to unravel, beware. That's when the value of bitcoin will go higher than you can imagine. Below is a graph of the money supply directly from the Federal Reserve. All that digital currency they’re printing is going directly to the banks and subsequently invested into the markets. That’s why every stock index is at record levels. When the sell-off happens (and it will) all those dollars will be inflationary. I hope you’re diversified for protection. One great hedge is bitcoin. If you're intrested in adoption curves etc. please see the video I posted earlier. The dude in the video is quite logical.
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Bitcoin doesn’t rely on the inflation rate of the US dollar to increase in value. During the past year of official 1.2% inflation the price of bitcoin went from ~30 to as high as ~1200. It will continue to go up in value. In the event the dollar starts to unravel, beware. That's when the value of bitcoin will go higher than you can imagine. Below is a graph of the money supply directly from the Federal Reserve. All that digital currency they’re printing is going directly to the banks and subsequently invested into the markets. That’s why every stock index is at record levels. When the sell-off happens (and it will) all those dollars will be inflationary. I hope you’re diversified for protection. One great hedge is bitcoin. If you're intrested in adoption curves etc. please see the video I posted earlier. The dude in the video is quite logical.
Take your charts and shove them up your ass. Bitcoin just died. :D
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Take your charts and shove them up your ass. Bitcoin just died. :D
It seems that one exchange went belly up. Not the same thing as Bitcoin dying. It may very well die - but it seems to me it's a bit early to ring the bell.
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Nonbelievers listen to Gordon Gekko on the concept of wealth being explained to young Bud Fox in the movie Wall Street –
“Money is transferred from one perception to another”.
“The illusion has become real and the more real it becomes the more desperate they want it”.
Apply it to Bitcoin.
Perfect description/application of what bitcoin actually is. Props to Gordon Gekko and Ganuvanx for pointing this out.
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I'm Creating My Own Digital Cryptocurrency
I'm sure you're all familiar with the bitcoin (http://bitcoin.org/en/) by now. But what you might not know is that there is a whole ecology of alternative (http://www.coinmarketprice.com/) cryptocurrencies being brought to market (initially just mined, then put on an exchange and traded for fiat) with their own special functions -- e.g., coins whose mining sends computational power to BOINC research projects (gridcoin).
As CEO of Vincent Goodcome Enterprises, I'm always looking for ways to innovate and expand my burnt appendages into new markets. Today I'd like to share my latest innovation:
Introducing, the goodcoin (GOC)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/ac5phi.jpg)
Technical specifications:
60 second block time
10 goodcoin's reward per block
60 second transaction confirmation time
scrypt-based, proof of work algorithm
Retarget every 4 hours
RPC/P2P Ports = 8505/8506
The goodcoin will be a revolutionary new cryptocurrency that will only gain value as its adoption rate increases. Initial miners will get free digital coupons to Caliber Fitness and Caliber Grocery upon successful mining of each block (in addition to the standard 10 goodcoin reward). Goodcoins make a great holiday gift as well because I'm sure they'll be useful for something sometime in the future (haven't figured that part of the business out quite yet).
More news to come!!
(http://i41.tinypic.com/35hiidv.jpg)