Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: millineum man on January 31, 2014, 04:32:49 PM
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Sorry to bother you, but I'd like to get some opinions from some knowledgeable guys. I've been planning my First Cycle for a while now. I want to keep it as simple as possible. The standard cycle recommendation is 500mgs of Test E or C for 12-16 weeks. My goal is to use the absolute minimum to grow, increase my strength on all the core lifts, and keep the water retention low. Stats: 39 years old(40 in two months), 6'3" 235lbs, 8-9% bf with a 31-32 inch waist. I seen some posts by Galeniko and Proud Virgin69 and had this in mind. Maybe start out with 250mgs of Test a week for a year and see where it takes me. Or 500mgs of Test a week for 6-8 months, then back down to 250mgs for 8-12 weeks and back to 500mgs. My diet(5-6 protein based meals a day) and training are on point. Aesthically speaking, I hate to use numbers, but my long term plan is to hit 250lbs while heeping my bodyfat the same. I don't compete so you can lump me in the "gymrat" catergory. LOL! Let me get some honest input. Thanks in advance, guys!
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Sorry to bother you, but I'd like to get some opinions from some knowledgeable guys. I've been planning my First Cycle for a while now. I want to keep it as simple as possible. The standard cycle recommendation is 500mgs of Test E or C for 12-16 weeks. My goal is to use the absolute minimum to grow, increase my strength on all the core lifts, and keep the water retention low. Stats: 39 years old(40 in two months), 6'3" 235lbs, 8-9% bf with a 31-32 inch waist. I seen some posts by Galeniko and Proud Virgin69 and had this in mind. Maybe start out with 250mgs of Test a week for a year and see where it takes me. Or 500mgs of Test a week for 6-8 months, then back down to 250mgs for 8-12 weeks and back to 500mgs. My diet(5-6 protein based meals a day) and training are on point. Aesthically speaking, I hate to use numbers, but my long term plan is to hit 250lbs while heeping my bodyfat the same. I don't compete so you can lump me in the "gymrat" catergory. LOL! Let me get some honest input. Thanks in advance, guys!
This plan is airtight and pretty much foolproof....you've got the right mindset, evidenced by the bolded text.
As far as how much you want to start off with, I think 250mg/week would feel like a big leap from your natty status but you couldn't really go wrong with 500mg either. Are you patient? If yes, 250mg....if not, 500mg. Either one is good.
Above all, you're in for a great experience. If you think you're having fun training now, you aint seen nothing yet ;D
Posting a picture would definitely help us get an idea of where you're at
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have you had your natural levels tested? your at that age where they get low, when I first hit the weights at 36 my levels were in the toilet and I grew, just saying maybe get them checked and you can get it prescribed. I personally would do 600mg test first cycle.
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Sorry to bother you, but I'd like to get some opinions from some knowledgeable guys. I've been planning my First Cycle for a while now. I want to keep it as simple as possible. The standard cycle recommendation is 500mgs of Test E or C for 12-16 weeks. My goal is to use the absolute minimum to grow, increase my strength on all the core lifts, and keep the water retention low. Stats: 39 years old(40 in two months), 6'3" 235lbs, 8-9% bf with a 31-32 inch waist. I seen some posts by Galeniko and Proud Virgin69 and had this in mind. Maybe start out with 250mgs of Test a week for a year and see where it takes me. Or 500mgs of Test a week for 6-8 months, then back down to 250mgs for 8-12 weeks and back to 500mgs. My diet(5-6 protein based meals a day) and training are on point. Aesthically speaking, I hate to use numbers, but my long term plan is to hit 250lbs while heeping my bodyfat the same. I don't compete so you can lump me in the "gymrat" catergory. LOL! Let me get some honest input. Thanks in advance, guys!
I would say go with 500mgs for 12 to 16 weeks like you said just to try it out.if you feel the need to stay on then you can cruise with 250mg after that...I have been juicing for about 8 years and out of all the crazy cycles iv done.. 500mgs of legit pharma test is my favorite..very mild cycle with great gains if you diet real strict and train like an animal...also get blood work during and after cycle is always good..
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This plan is airtight and pretty much foolproof....you've got the right mindset, evidenced by the bolded text.
As far as how much you want to start off with, I think 250mg/week would feel like a big leap from your natty status but you couldn't really go wrong with 500mg either. Are you patient? If yes, 250mg....if not, 500mg. Either one is good.
Above all, you're in for a great experience. If you think you're having fun training now, you aint seen nothing yet ;D
Posting a picture would definitely help us get an idea of where you're at
I'm not sure if I'm all that patient.;D I'm leaning towards going with 500mgs/week for at least 6 months, maybe a little longer. My main concern is staying on the dry side while growing. I have seen the bloated look on a few guys and I'm definitely not a fan.
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Would using Test Prop help at all?
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test is test
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I am 48 and I am about to hop on "enhanced" self administered TRT. If I wasn't patient, I would have quit the iron game 20 years ago.
Wanna do it with minimal sides, bloat or obvious AAS use (50 pounds in 10 weeks).
Going with 250/week test e.
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I'm not sure if I'm all that patient.;D I'm leaning towards going with 500mgs/week for at least 6 months, maybe a little longer. My main concern is staying on the dry side while growing. I have seen the bloated look on a few guys and I'm definitely not a fan.
Bloat is determined to a big extent by genetics, but there's some things you can do to keep it under control...mostly estrogen and water-based
-the right dose of test. 250test might give you good e2 values, but 300 might take you way out of range. Estrogen does not increase linearly with dosage. This takes some experimentation
-clean diet, low carb/sodium. Test makes you way more sensitive to junk food. Takes me like 2 days to recover from a big cheat meal.
-avoiding dairy/gluten if you're sensitive. Food allergies/intolerances will make you hold water a bit
-staying as lean as you can. The more fat you have, the more estrogen you'll produce
-frequent injections. Big doses infrequently will lead to hormone fluctuations and more estrogen conversion
-taking an anti-estrogen. Last resort imo, you wanna use as few drugs as possible. Maybe just use it for a couple months in summer to look real good
Dosage n clean diet are the biggest factors in my book, but you'll need to find what works best for you
I am 48 and I am about to hop on "enhanced" self administered TRT. If I wasn't patient, I would have quit the iron game 20 years ago.
Wanna do it with minimal sides, bloat or obvious AAS use (50 pounds in 10 weeks).
Going with 250/week test e.
Perfect. Low dose n strict diet will make you look great
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My diet is on-point right now. I probably will have to be more diligent with logging my food and also watching the sodium. I have a once a week cheat meal with my son.
The rest is high protein (200+ grams), low/medium high-quality carbs and good fats. I am all about tweaking it tho.
Not a big fan of needles, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
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My diet is on-point right now. I probably will have to be more diligent with logging my food and also watching the sodium. I have a once a week cheat meal with my son.
The rest is high protein (200+ grams), low/medium high-quality carbs and good fats. I am all about tweaking it tho.
Not a big fan of needles, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Sounds good. When i say "strict" I just mean that you'll be way more sensitive to bloat on juice. A pizza dinner will fuck you up, water-wise. Moonface and all that. The only advantage toOne of the advantages to being natural is that you don't have to worry about water/bloat much
Everybody is different though, this may not be an issue for you. Just takes a bit of experimentation
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I am 48 and I am about to hop on "enhanced" self administered TRT. If I wasn't patient, I would have quit the iron game 20 years ago.
Wanna do it with minimal sides, bloat or obvious AAS use (50 pounds in 10 weeks).
Going with 250/week test e.
We're after the same thing, basically. The main reason I'm going to start out with 500mgs is I'm going to be shutdown either way, whether it's 250 or 500. I've seen studies with guys using 600mgs of test a week and had great results in muscle growth. I believe I can control the bloat with my diet and cardio(30mins 5 x's a week), which is important to me.
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Bloat is determined to a big extent by genetics, but there's some things you can do to keep it under control...mostly estrogen and water-based
-the right dose of test. 250test might give you good e2 values, but 300 might take you way out of range. Estrogen does not increase linearly with dosage. This takes some experimentation
-clean diet, low carb/sodium. Test makes you way more sensitive to junk food. Takes me like 2 days to recover from a big cheat meal.
-avoiding dairy/gluten if you're sensitive. Food allergies/intolerances will make you hold water a bit
-staying as lean as you can. The more fat you have, the more estrogen you'll produce
-frequent injections. Big doses infrequently will lead to hormone fluctuations and more estrogen conversion
-taking an anti-estrogen. Last resort imo, you wanna use as few drugs as possible. Maybe just use it for a couple months in summer to look real good
Dosage n clean diet are the biggest factors in my book, but you'll need to find what works best for you
Perfect. Low dose n strict diet will make you look great
Yeah, I've heard from guys who said they the majority of test sides down by injecting smaller, more frequent amounts throughout the week using slin pins. I'm in this thing for the long haul and do not want to go over board.
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I also have access to 100mgs test phenylpropionate/100mgs npp combo that's supposed to be kick ass. Not sure if I want to mess with it right now or save it for down the road.
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I also have access to 100mgs test phenylpropionate/100mgs npp combo that's supposed to be kick ass. Not sure if I want to mess with it right now or save it for down the road.
Why not start with just the test, and see how that is before you start mixing?
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Yeah, I've heard from guys who said they the majority of test sides down by injecting smaller, more frequent amounts throughout the week using slin pins. I'm in this thing for the long haul and do not want to go over board.
Keeping in mind that I don't know fuck-all, that's not been the advice that I have been given. Sides are a function of the amount and your genetic disposition against sides.
My goal is to boost my test to just a tad supra-physiological and keep my training and diet where it currently is. I don't want my hair to fall out, my prostate to enlarge, my tits to grow, my face to become a moon, my current, hard-earned muscles (such as they are) to bloof, or...you get the idea.
That said, if I go 4-6 months on 250 and feel that there is some head-space there, I would consider kicking it up. Probably 375 and then 500. But really, I am not sure that I need or want to.
And patience, my younger brother. I am 10 years older than you. I would probably give a nut to have those 10 years back chronologically (the last 10 were great years for me personally and professionally, tho), but the iron game is a game of inches, not yards. Don't be so impatient that you get yourself in health trouble. These ain't multivitamins that we are fucking around with here. Be smart, be patient.
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No, what he's saying about injecting everyday is true. But it's somewhat of a hassle.
The only benefit of once/weekly injections is convenience
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No, what he's saying about injecting everyday is true. But it's somewhat of a hassle.
The only benefit of once/weekly injections is convenience
What do you about 1/4ml(62.5mgs) 5 times (Mon-Fri) or 1/2ml(125mgs) injections of Test E or C 3 times a week with a slin pin? Most guys say they're virtually painless and not much of a hassle. They eliminate the water bloat and bloofy look without having to use Arimidex, Aromasin, etc... to stay dry.
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Keeping in mind that I don't know fuck-all, that's not been the advice that I have been given. Sides are a function of the amount and your genetic disposition against sides.
My goal is to boost my test to just a tad supra-physiological and keep my training and diet where it currently is. I don't want my hair to fall out, my prostate to enlarge, my tits to grow, my face to become a moon, my current, hard-earned muscles (such as they are) to bloof, or...you get the idea.
That said, if I go 4-6 months on 250 and feel that there is some head-space there, I would consider kicking it up. Probably 375 and then 500. But really, I am not sure that I need or want to.
And patience, my younger brother. I am 10 years older than you. I would probably give a nut to have those 10 years back chronologically (the last 10 were great years for me personally and professionally, tho), but the iron game is a game of inches, not yards. Don't be so impatient that you get yourself in health trouble. These ain't multivitamins that we are fucking around with here. Be smart, be patient.
Maybe Test 250+ Primo 200 mg per week should be a solution?
Primo is an anti oestrogeen (dht derivate) and will lower oestrogen conversion from the test.
Besides that primo is also anabolic
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Maybe Test 250+ Pri. 200 mg per week should be a solution?
Primo is an anti oestrogeen (dht derivate) and will lower oestrogen conversion from the test.
Besides that primo is also anabolic
It's hard to find REAL, affordable primo now a days. Masteron enanthate would be a cheaper option.
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Maybe Test 250+ Primo 200 mg per week should be a solution?
Primo is an anti oestrogeen (dht derivate) and will lower oestrogen conversion from the test.
Besides that primo is also anabolic
can you explain why you say primo is an anti-estrogen?
I've never understood the theory behind this....
perhaps it came from dan duchaine in the mid 90's when he said Proviron was an anti-estrogen, then changes his stance.
people compared proviron to masteron.
now masteron became an anti-estrogen.
now because primo is a dht-drtv, it also is an anti-estrogen.
so, in that logic, is anadrol now an anti-estrogen as well? winstrol? anavar? halotestin? (and whatever else I'm forgetting)
is dht an aromatase-inhibitor? does it occupy the estrogen receptor? how exactly is it an 'anti-estrogen'?
people should really, really refrain from giving out advice about subjects they really, really know nothing about.
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Primo is an anti oestrogeen (dht derivate) and will lower oestrogen conversion from the test.
no and no.
primo is also a good way to lose ones hair.
can you explain why you say primo is an anti-estrogen?
I've never understood the theory behind this....
perhaps it came from dan duchaine in the mid 90's when he said Proviron was an anti-estrogen, then changes his stance.
people compared proviron to masteron.
now masteron became an anti-estrogen.
now because primo is a dht-drtv, it also is an anti-estrogen.
so, in that logic, is anadrol now an anti-estrogen as well? winstrol? anavar? halotestin? (and whatever else I'm forgetting)
is dht an aromatase-inhibitor? does it occupy the estrogen receptor? how exactly is it an 'anti-estrogen'?
people should really, really refrain from giving out advice about subjects they really, really know nothing about.
i think youre just "asking" rhetoricaly,you know the answers.
but ill put it out here anyway:
dht compounds are not anti estrogens at all.they are simply steroids and thats that.
they dont stop estrogen conversion from other compounds at all.
even if one runs dht derivates only, the will still be estrogen in the body,anyone who knows how estrogen is created will know that.
a friend has just has blood work done and runs a dht compound only cycle.est is low but not "gone".
hope this helps,but you knew this already ;D
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no and no.
primo is also a good way to lose ones hair.
and money. lol.
in the us, primo costs 15x what deca cost to produce...
so unless you're paying 15x (maybe the supplier is being nice and cutting his margin down, in which case we'll say 8-10x) what you're paying for deca it's most likely not primo. (and most likely masteron, which is about 2.5x what deca costs to produce).
only 'option' is to find HG ampules, and even those are expensive as hell.... even the 50mg ones in mexico (if they're still in mexico).
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and money. lol.
in the us, primo costs 15x what deca cost to produce...
so unless you're paying 15x (maybe the supplier is being nice and cutting his margin down, in which case we'll say 8-10x) what you're paying for deca it's most likely not primo. (and most likely masteron, which is about 2.5x what deca costs to produce).
only 'option' is to find HG ampules, and even those are expensive as hell.... even the 50mg ones in mexico (if they're still in mexico).
yah, i dont know if the schering ampoulas(100mg) are still made, it always was very expensive and overhyped, simply bc arnie supposedly took this.
to get an effective dosage will be very expensive,fully agree.
if it has mast in it instead the ppl should be lucky, its much better bang for the buck :D
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6'3" 235lbs, 8-9% bf with a 31-32 inch waist.
With those stats you don't need to take anything
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no and no.
primo is also a good way to lose ones hair.
i think youre just "asking" rhetoricaly,you know the answers.
but ill put it out here anyway:
dht compounds are not anti estrogens at all.they are simply steroids and thats that.
they dont stop estrogen conversion from other compounds at all.
even if one runs dht derivates only, the will still be estrogen in the body,anyone who knows how estrogen is created will know that.
a friend has just has blood work done and runs a dht compound only cycle.est is low but not "gone".
hope this helps,but you knew this already ;D
But primo is very mild, how it can be harsh for the hair?
Women are also using primo
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But primo is very mild, how it can be harsh for the hair?
Women are also using primo
Because primo is a DHT derivative and classically these will make you go bald the fastest (masteron, winny etc).
So I see where galeniko is coming from. However, not all DHT-based steroids are equal and some DHT compounds are less effective than others at producing sides, primobolan is meant to be one of these.
Although it certainly has the potential to make you lose your hair, just not to the extent of masteron and winny.
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With those stats you don't need to take anything
nobody "needs" to take anything... but we do to achieve the appearance we want.
this is bodybuilding.
not "eh, I'm good enough so i'll just maintain-building".
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nobody "needs" to take anything... but we do to achieve the appearance we want.
this is bodybuilding.
not "eh, I'm good enough so i'll just maintain-building".
Your absolutely right, ESF! I would love to get your take on my future quest.
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hm, by design, by default, dht derivates cant and shouldnt be described as mild.
maybe primo is mild as far building muscle goes, but not so mild as far sides go.
all non estrogen convertibles have some notorious sides.
its always consistent, seen the blood works of people.
and yes, primo is right up there as hair loss steroid
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hm, by design, by default, dht derivates cant and shouldnt be described as mild.
maybe primo is mild as far building muscle goes, but not so mild as far sides go.
all non estrogen convertibles have some notorious sides.
its always consistent, seen the blood works of people.
and yes, primo is right up there as hair loss steroid
Galeniko, does 250mgs of Test/week for a year straight sounds reasonable to see decent results?
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Galeniko, does 250mgs of Test/week for a year straight sounds reasonable to see decent results?
for a newcomer, yes, for a vet, thatll be maintenance.
6month 250 followed by 6months 500, if one doesnt build halfway decent physique on that in 1-2 years, itll never happen.
but if one sticks to diet and trains like an animal, the results will be good.
has to be non stop,though.
going off when developing is setting one back too far.
the only ones who can go off and then come back in little time are those4 who had the physique before already.
if i was on my way up to the personal goal theres no way id ever go off until there.
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for a newcomer, yes, for a vet, thatll be maintenance.
6month 250 followed by 6months 500, if one doesnt build halfway decent physique on that in 1-2 years, itll never happen.
but if one sticks to diet and trains like an animal, the results will be good.
has to be non stop,though.
going off when developing is setting one back too far.
the only ones who can go off and then come back in little time are those4 who had the physique before already.
if i was on my way up to the personal goal theres no way id ever go off until there.
Ok. That sounds sensible and doable. Start out with a 250mgs of Test for 6 months and reasess to see where I am development-wise. Then, bump it up to 500mgs for the next 6 months. If I can't get to the next level off of 250-500mgs of Test/wk, I will take up sewing. LOL
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I'm gunning for 250-255lbs and 9% bf within the next 8-12 months. I'm confident I can achieve and maintain it with my diet & training.
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I'm gunning for 250-255lbs and 9% bf within the next 8-12 months. I'm confident I can achieve and maintain it with my diet & training.
dont even worry about numbers.
just train, eat the protein, always be on.
i know numbers can be motivational, but the most important mindeset give it all in every training, learn tof eel when need rest,when what foods,do not overeat,just dont, growinf muscle is more or less mere glycogen retention,and bit fibre hypertrophy.
consistency and time are the most important factors.
dont slack while on gear, its pointless to be on gear if not going full out.
ahalo is what one can expect within a year if their not completely oblivious to whats necesary.he made great gains and kept getting leaner.
he had a solid enough base and nver on gear before.
its important to take full advantage of the gear.those who slack and just keepupping dosage burn out fast and will have poor results.
is important to be realistic with one self about the question whether one is ready or not to start.
those who arent, will be disapoint.its not bad genetics ,its bad everything,poor effort and too much daydreaming.
some clowns say something like my physique is "small"(well yeah relative to olympia cast it is very small), but im blessed with decent genetics and still needed tons and tons of time of serious lifting
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Has anyone got pictures of ahalo before and after?
I'm very interested
I've taken everything way down after talking to galeniko and the results have been great.
Less food
Less drugs (1/6th of the dose lol)
More growth
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for a newcomer, yes, for a vet, thatll be maintenance.
6month 250 followed by 6months 500, if one doesnt build halfway decent physique on that in 1-2 years, itll never happen.
but if one sticks to diet and trains like an animal, the results will be good.
has to be non stop,though.
going off when developing is setting one back too far.
the only ones who can go off and then come back in little time are those4 who had the physique before already.
if i was on my way up to the personal goal theres no way id ever go off until there.
Galeniko: 2 big questions for you:
1-Is it true that 250 has the same impact on your HPTA axis then 500 mg?
So it doesn't matter what you use thus better 500 mg for better gains?
2-Big CAT is a well known scientist in AAS and he wote that test is more harsh on your hairline than primo because primo is not a dht derivate but a dhb derivate (derivate from equipose) and the problem is the molecule, the conversion from test-->dht is harsh for the hairline and not primo because it is "already changed into dht" so less harsh for your hair?
Thanks man
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haha that well knows scientist cant be trusted.
i know what is dhb, and primo isnt a dhb.
even if it was, the effect on hair would be about the same.
more on this later gtg
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haha that well knows scientist cant be trusted.
i know what is dhb, and primo isnt a dhb.
even if it was, the effect on hair would be about the same.
more on this later gtg
Have you heard from Big Cat? he has a worldwide name as AAS guru
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Have you heard from Big Cat? he has a worldwide name as AAS guru
nobody needs a guru its good enough to read the gear packaging and see if theres scientific studies,all else is individual.
hes wronf on the dhb.
that said test is certainly not as har don hair as primobolan.
dont listen to that "guru" jesus sake, have you got that from him that dhts are anti estrogens?
learn to think for yourself,here:
During testosterone administration, total and free E2 levels increased dose-dependently (dose effect, P<0.001) in both young and older men. Total and free E2 levels and E2:T ratios during T administration were higher in older than young men, but age-related differences in free E2 and free E2:T ratios were not significant after adjusting for testosterone levels, percentage fat mass, and SHBG. DHT levels and DHT:T ratios were dose-related but did not differ between young and older men. Mechanistic modeling of free hormone data revealed that the conversions of T to E2 and DHT were both consistent with saturable Michaelis-Menten kinetics. The in vivo Km values were estimated to be 1.83 nm for aromatase and 3.35 nm for 5alpha-reductase, independent of age. The Vmax parameter for E2 was 40% higher in older men than younger men, but Vmax for DHT was not significantly different between age groups.
CONCLUSIONS:
During im testosterone administration, E2 and DHT levels exhibit saturable increases with dose. The rate of whole body aromatization is higher in older men, partly related to their higher percentage fat mass, SHBG, and testosterone levels.
read especialy the conclusion, this is what i always been saying(and i dont feel smart about it,everyone who been shredded will know, if youre fat,youre an estrogenic mess if you inject steroids).
here about shut down and dht
The administration of exogenous testosterone (T) to eugonadal men causes suppression of gonadotropin secretion and thus of spermatogenesis. This is currently being investigated as a possible method of hormonal male contraceptive, but complete suppression of spermatogenesis to azoospermia is induced in only 50-70% of Caucasian men; the remainder maintain a low rate of spermatogenesis. The basis for this polymorphism in response is unclear. The enzyme 5 alpha-reductase (5 alpha R) converts T to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and is important in determining the magnitude of the androgen stimulus in some tissues. We investigated whether the maintenance of spermatogenesis in men remaining oligozoospermic while receiving suppressive doses of T is associated with evidence of increased 5 alpha R activity. Thirty-three normal men were given 200 mg T enanthate (TE), im, weekly in a clinical trial of hormonal male contraception. The MCR of T (MCRT) and the conversion ratio of T to DHT (CRT-DHT) were measured by infusion of [3H]T, plasma levels of DHT and androstanediol glucuronide (AdiolG) were measured by RIA, and 24-h urinary steroid metabolites were measured by capillary column gas chromatography. Sperm density decreased in all men; 18 achieved azoospermia by 20 weeks of treatment, and the remainder had a mean sperm density of 2.0 +/- 0.8 x 10(5)/mL at that time. This treatment caused increases in plasma T levels and MCRT, but with no differences between azoospermic and oligozoospermic responders. There were no differences in CRT-DHT plasma DHT, or AdiolG before treatment, but after 16 weeks, CRT-DHT had increased in the oligozoospermic responders, but not in the azoospermic responders. TE treatment increased plasma DHT and AdiolG levels in both groups, but the increases in both 5 alpha R metabolites were significantly greater in the oligozoospermic responders. Urinary excretion of etiocholanolone and androsterone was increased after 16 weeks of TE treatment, but did not differ between the two groups, andetiocholanolone/androsterone ratios did not differ greatly from unity. There was no change in urinary excretion of tetrahydrocortisol, allo-tetrahydrocortisol, or cortisone after 16 weeks of TE treatment in either group. These results suggest that after TE administration there is a selective increase in 5 alpha R activity in those men who remain oligozoospermic, but not in those becoming azoospermic. This difference in the androgenic milieu may underlie the incomplete suppression in the oligozoospermic responders, in whom a low rate of spermatogenesis is maintained despite the apparent absence of gonadotropins.
thanks, see i dont feel like a teacher.
do not listen to gurus for fuck sake!!!
read scientific studies,think for yourselves.
in lay,an terms,injecting a dht derivate will always be much harsher on the hair than test.
im not a guru i only talk when i know i read about scientific studies on the matter.
they are also very interesting to read, just not as dramaticaly presented as the fraudulent bullshitters gurus do.
if one says dhts are anti estorgens and primo is not a dht, they dont know what they talking about.
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The scalp doesn't have "DHT receptors" it has "androgen receptors"
If something is androgenic in nature, it will be "the final solution" for the hairline as galeniko likes to say
DHT derivatives are very androgenic by design. But you can run anything that is androgenic and have the same issues. If prone, test, tren, masteron, primo it won't matter.
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The scalp doesn't have "DHT receptors" it has "androgen receptors"
If something is androgenic in nature, it will be "the final solution" for the hairline as galeniko likes to say
DHT derivatives are very androgenic by design. But you can run anything that is androgenic and have the same issues. If prone, test, tren, masteron, primo it won't matter.
yes its the androgen receptors that will kill the hairline, but the androgen reeptors have much higher affinity to dht than to test.
so it def makes a difference whether one chooses test or masteron.
in theory,low dose deca and eq seem safest.
tren can be hit or miss.
test is ok-isch low dose(in other words if one loses hair on low dose test, his hair is soon doomed anyway)
and then comes the array of "dryness" peds, they all terrible on the hair.
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nobody needs a guru its good enough to read the gear packaging and see if theres scientific studies,all else is individual.
hes wronf on the dhb.
that said test is certainly not as har don hair as primobolan.
dont listen to that "guru" jesus sake, have you got that from him that dhts are anti estrogens?
learn to think for yourself,here:
During testosterone administration, total and free E2 levels increased dose-dependently (dose effect, P<0.001) in both young and older men. Total and free E2 levels and E2:T ratios during T administration were higher in older than young men, but age-related differences in free E2 and free E2:T ratios were not significant after adjusting for testosterone levels, percentage fat mass, and SHBG. DHT levels and DHT:T ratios were dose-related but did not differ between young and older men. Mechanistic modeling of free hormone data revealed that the conversions of T to E2 and DHT were both consistent with saturable Michaelis-Menten kinetics. The in vivo Km values were estimated to be 1.83 nm for aromatase and 3.35 nm for 5alpha-reductase, independent of age. The Vmax parameter for E2 was 40% higher in older men than younger men, but Vmax for DHT was not significantly different between age groups.
CONCLUSIONS:
During im testosterone administration, E2 and DHT levels exhibit saturable increases with dose. The rate of whole body aromatization is higher in older men, partly related to their higher percentage fat mass, SHBG, and testosterone levels.
read especialy the conclusion, this is what i always been saying(and i dont feel smart about it,everyone who been shredded will know, if youre fat,youre an estrogenic mess if you inject steroids).
here about shut down and dht
The administration of exogenous testosterone (T) to eugonadal men causes suppression of gonadotropin secretion and thus of spermatogenesis. This is currently being investigated as a possible method of hormonal male contraceptive, but complete suppression of spermatogenesis to azoospermia is induced in only 50-70% of Caucasian men; the remainder maintain a low rate of spermatogenesis. The basis for this polymorphism in response is unclear. The enzyme 5 alpha-reductase (5 alpha R) converts T to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and is important in determining the magnitude of the androgen stimulus in some tissues. We investigated whether the maintenance of spermatogenesis in men remaining oligozoospermic while receiving suppressive doses of T is associated with evidence of increased 5 alpha R activity. Thirty-three normal men were given 200 mg T enanthate (TE), im, weekly in a clinical trial of hormonal male contraception. The MCR of T (MCRT) and the conversion ratio of T to DHT (CRT-DHT) were measured by infusion of [3H]T, plasma levels of DHT and androstanediol glucuronide (AdiolG) were measured by RIA, and 24-h urinary steroid metabolites were measured by capillary column gas chromatography. Sperm density decreased in all men; 18 achieved azoospermia by 20 weeks of treatment, and the remainder had a mean sperm density of 2.0 +/- 0.8 x 10(5)/mL at that time. This treatment caused increases in plasma T levels and MCRT, but with no differences between azoospermic and oligozoospermic responders. There were no differences in CRT-DHT plasma DHT, or AdiolG before treatment, but after 16 weeks, CRT-DHT had increased in the oligozoospermic responders, but not in the azoospermic responders. TE treatment increased plasma DHT and AdiolG levels in both groups, but the increases in both 5 alpha R metabolites were significantly greater in the oligozoospermic responders. Urinary excretion of etiocholanolone and androsterone was increased after 16 weeks of TE treatment, but did not differ between the two groups, andetiocholanolone/androsterone ratios did not differ greatly from unity. There was no change in urinary excretion of tetrahydrocortisol, allo-tetrahydrocortisol, or cortisone after 16 weeks of TE treatment in either group. These results suggest that after TE administration there is a selective increase in 5 alpha R activity in those men who remain oligozoospermic, but not in those becoming azoospermic. This difference in the androgenic milieu may underlie the incomplete suppression in the oligozoospermic responders, in whom a low rate of spermatogenesis is maintained despite the apparent absence of gonadotropins.
thanks, see i dont feel like a teacher.
do not listen to gurus for fuck sake!!!
read scientific studies,think for yourselves.
in lay,an terms,injecting a dht derivate will always be much harsher on the hair than test.
im not a guru i only talk when i know i read about scientific studies on the matter.
they are also very interesting to read, just not as dramaticaly presented as the fraudulent bullshitters gurus do.
if one says dhts are anti estorgens and primo is not a dht, they dont know what they talking about.
Thanks bro for your explanation and effort!
But now in easy language?
No Big Cat didnt say dht are anti estrogen.
But i thought because he has an academic level in biochemistry/celbiology and has personal experiences and helped also pro BB..then ik thought he will be very smart with AAS.
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yes its the androgen receptors that will kill the hairline, but the androgen reeptors have much higher affinity to dht than to test.
so it def makes a difference whether one chooses test or masteron.
in theory,low dose deca and eq seem safest.
tren can be hit or miss.
test is ok-isch low dose(in other words if one loses hair on low dose test, his hair is soon doomed anyway)
and then comes the array of "dryness" peds, they all terrible on the hair.
Thanks thats clear! ;D ;)
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nobody needs a guru its good enough to read the gear packaging and see if theres scientific studies,all else is individual.
hes wronf on the dhb.
that said test is certainly not as har don hair as primobolan.
dont listen to that "guru" jesus sake, have you got that from him that dhts are anti estrogens?
learn to think for yourself,here:
During testosterone administration, total and free E2 levels increased dose-dependently (dose effect, P<0.001) in both young and older men. Total and free E2 levels and E2:T ratios during T administration were higher in older than young men, but age-related differences in free E2 and free E2:T ratios were not significant after adjusting for testosterone levels, percentage fat mass, and SHBG. DHT levels and DHT:T ratios were dose-related but did not differ between young and older men. Mechanistic modeling of free hormone data revealed that the conversions of T to E2 and DHT were both consistent with saturable Michaelis-Menten kinetics. The in vivo Km values were estimated to be 1.83 nm for aromatase and 3.35 nm for 5alpha-reductase, independent of age. The Vmax parameter for E2 was 40% higher in older men than younger men, but Vmax for DHT was not significantly different between age groups.
CONCLUSIONS:
During im testosterone administration, E2 and DHT levels exhibit saturable increases with dose. The rate of whole body aromatization is higher in older men, partly related to their higher percentage fat mass, SHBG, and testosterone levels.
read especialy the conclusion, this is what i always been saying(and i dont feel smart about it,everyone who been shredded will know, if youre fat,youre an estrogenic mess if you inject steroids).
here about shut down and dht
The administration of exogenous testosterone (T) to eugonadal men causes suppression of gonadotropin secretion and thus of spermatogenesis. This is currently being investigated as a possible method of hormonal male contraceptive, but complete suppression of spermatogenesis to azoospermia is induced in only 50-70% of Caucasian men; the remainder maintain a low rate of spermatogenesis. The basis for this polymorphism in response is unclear. The enzyme 5 alpha-reductase (5 alpha R) converts T to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and is important in determining the magnitude of the androgen stimulus in some tissues. We investigated whether the maintenance of spermatogenesis in men remaining oligozoospermic while receiving suppressive doses of T is associated with evidence of increased 5 alpha R activity. Thirty-three normal men were given 200 mg T enanthate (TE), im, weekly in a clinical trial of hormonal male contraception. The MCR of T (MCRT) and the conversion ratio of T to DHT (CRT-DHT) were measured by infusion of [3H]T, plasma levels of DHT and androstanediol glucuronide (AdiolG) were measured by RIA, and 24-h urinary steroid metabolites were measured by capillary column gas chromatography. Sperm density decreased in all men; 18 achieved azoospermia by 20 weeks of treatment, and the remainder had a mean sperm density of 2.0 +/- 0.8 x 10(5)/mL at that time. This treatment caused increases in plasma T levels and MCRT, but with no differences between azoospermic and oligozoospermic responders. There were no differences in CRT-DHT plasma DHT, or AdiolG before treatment, but after 16 weeks, CRT-DHT had increased in the oligozoospermic responders, but not in the azoospermic responders. TE treatment increased plasma DHT and AdiolG levels in both groups, but the increases in both 5 alpha R metabolites were significantly greater in the oligozoospermic responders. Urinary excretion of etiocholanolone and androsterone was increased after 16 weeks of TE treatment, but did not differ between the two groups, andetiocholanolone/androsterone ratios did not differ greatly from unity. There was no change in urinary excretion of tetrahydrocortisol, allo-tetrahydrocortisol, or cortisone after 16 weeks of TE treatment in either group. These results suggest that after TE administration there is a selective increase in 5 alpha R activity in those men who remain oligozoospermic, but not in those becoming azoospermic. This difference in the androgenic milieu may underlie the incomplete suppression in the oligozoospermic responders, in whom a low rate of spermatogenesis is maintained despite the apparent absence of gonadotropins.
thanks, see i dont feel like a teacher.
do not listen to gurus for fuck sake!!!
read scientific studies,think for yourselves.
in lay,an terms,injecting a dht derivate will always be much harsher on the hair than test.
im not a guru i only talk when i know i read about scientific studies on the matter.
they are also very interesting to read, just not as dramaticaly presented as the fraudulent bullshitters gurus do.
if one says dhts are anti estorgens and primo is not a dht, they dont know what they talking about.
My question remains: will 250 mg test also surpress the hpta axis at same level then 500 mg test for a period of 10 weeks?
Sorry maybe for my dumbness
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yes the shut down is about the same the study above is in plain sight.
250-500for 12 week "cycle" on test e is pretty bad thing to do, soon after iit starts working you go off and are shut down.
they both shit you down fast and good.
every steroid shuts ppl axis down.
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yes the shut down is about the same the study above is in plain sight.
250-500for 12 week "cycle" on test e is pretty bad thing to do, soon after iit starts working you go off and are shut down.
they both shit you down fast and good.
every steroid shuts ppl axis down.
So, its better to do what I plan on doing. Start out with 250mgs of 250mgs of Test/wk for 6 months. Have laser like focus on my diet, training & recuperation. Then, bump up the Test to 500mg/wk for the next 6 months, right?
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Galeniko, quick question for you. I've read on several of the more popular boards on the net that "250mgs of Test/wk won't do jack!", "250mgs of Test/wk is a waste!" or "Bump it up to 500mgs and do a REAL cycle!" What kind of results have you witnessed someone achieve using 250mgs of Test for an extended period of time?
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Galeniko, quick question for you. I've read on several of the more popular boards on the net that "250mgs of Test/wk won't do jack!", "250mgs of Test/wk is a waste!" or "Bump it up to 500mgs and do a REAL cycle!" What kind of results have you witnessed someone achieve using 250mgs of Test for an extended period of time?
250mg/week is pretty much triple natural.... HRT is that every 14 days
Get lean and jacked on that dose. If you can't do that then forget it, no amount of drugs will do it for you. When you have DONE that, bump it up to 500
People can get good results naturally, so if double natural won't give good results then something is drastically wrong
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I've read that the average healthy male produces 7-11mgs of test per day or roughly 50-80mgs a week. 80mgs is at the high end. If I had to guess, a young man going through puberty(14-18 years old) is probably at 80mgs a week. 250mgs of Test Enanthate without the ester gives you 180mgs of Test in your system. That's not counting the build up effect, neither.
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With my stats & the foundation I've built, I personally believe I can do well on 250mgs/wk. I remember back in the late 90's, 250mgs of Sustanon or Test E was THE cycle taken by every getting started. After that, the "More is better" mindset took over.
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well, 250 week will put on good 20-30lbs of pure muscle on a previously maxed out natty.
it will not do much on some mongoloid who did a bulk on 500 or more.
test sweet spot is 500mg for most, after that maojority will need aromatase stopper etc.
why use 500 if 250 will still give results
what after the 500?upping to 1000 and become bald, full of estrpgen conversion etc?blood pressure throufgh the roof etc
coming down in dose is a real bitch keep that in mind, thats how mnay idiots "burn" out from disapointment,eventualy they have to come down in dose and it feels terible, like going off.
more gear will not realy produce much faster results.key is just enough gear.
gear is just the assistance to all, not the foundation,get that as your mindset or the failure is univetable.
250 year round and at times add other compound thats it.
hell gymrats dont need anything than bit test and maybe an AI at times.thats it.
anabolchalo did this and has good results, this is what one can except if they know how to train and eat.
the diet must be clean at all times,it must be good and apropiate.
enitirely clean is only when going full out shredded,the last few weeks.
dont think too much about dosage for chrst sake, use minimum train 3-6 months et and see how it goes.
never listen to anone who says use this and that dosage,
newcomers starting at 500mg test are plain stupid imo.
500mg of real test weekly is quite a hefty amount.
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Well, I'm in the maxed out natty category right now. I want to try to add a little size through "supplementation" and maintain it before I get too old.
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Galeniko, this might seem like a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway. Would it better to take 1 shot of test at 250mgs a week? Or split 1/2ml (125mgs) twice a week?
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What's your opinion of NPP, EQ, Deca, Dbol & Anadrol? I won't try them any time soon. Maybe 6 months down the line when I hit a plateau.
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Up for ESFitness, PV69 & Galeniko...
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well, 250 week will put on good 20-30lbs of pure muscle on a previously maxed out natty.
it will not do much on some mongoloid who did a bulk on 500 or more.
test sweet spot is 500mg for most, after that maojority will need aromatase stopper etc.
why use 500 if 250 will still give results
what after the 500?upping to 1000 and become bald, full of estrpgen conversion etc?blood pressure throufgh the roof etc
coming down in dose is a real bitch keep that in mind, thats how mnay idiots "burn" out from disapointment,eventualy they have to come down in dose and it feels terible, like going off.
more gear will not realy produce much faster results.key is just enough gear.
gear is just the assistance to all, not the foundation,get that as your mindset or the failure is univetable.
250 year round and at times add other compound thats it.
hell gymrats dont need anything than bit test and maybe an AI at times.thats it.
anabolchalo did this and has good results, this is what one can except if they know how to train and eat.
the diet must be clean at all times,it must be good and apropiate.
enitirely clean is only when going full out shredded,the last few weeks.
dont think too much about dosage for chrst sake, use minimum train 3-6 months et and see how it goes.
never listen to anone who says use this and that dosage,
newcomers starting at 500mg test are plain stupid imo.
500mg of real test weekly is quite a hefty amount.
I just checked in with a vet who competes on another board. A good friend of his in his 30's who also competes took only 350mgs of Test a week on his First Cycle and gained 30lbs of muscle. The guy competed at 165lbs and showed up the next show weighing 195lbs in less than a year. The guy was guided by an IFBB pro who trained him and wrote out his diet.
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Galeniko, this might seem like a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway. Would it better to take 1 shot of test at 250mgs a week? Or split 1/2ml (125mgs) twice a week?
it dont matter much at that dose.id split them though, smaller estrogen spike post shooting.
as for theWhat's your opinion of NPP, EQ, Deca, Dbol & Anadrol? I won't try them any time soon. Maybe 6 months down the line when I hit a plateau.
deca:shit if you took test before.ok fr first timer and women.epic bloat.
dbol,anadrol, all orals are shitty drugs, for the reason cant run them non stop forever, harsh on liver.
dbol epic bloof gains, extremly high estrogen conversion rate.
anadrol, strong yes, shouldnt convert to estrogen on paper but causes the whole phletora of sides like water retention high blood pressure and very often gyno.i dont see the purpose for this,hteres much better out there.
npp is deca,isnt it.
eq is good.basicaly a weak version of testosterone.
dont think gymrat ever needs anything than test, an aromatase inhibitor at times, and can add bit tren for a blast at times.or mast, but test+adex is very similiar to mast.so yeah.
gh maybe.
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@Galeniko
W hat should be your choise combining with Test 250 for 10 weeks ?
Your honest opinion please
Primobolan 200mg or Equipose 200 with frontload 400
Stats
183 cm
Age 42
BF 18%
Weight 98 KG
Afraid for hairloss
Thanks in advance!!!!!
I am still natty
Or do you prefer Test 500 mg what also suggest a lot of people