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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on February 19, 2014, 03:28:53 PM
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Happy Birthday. :)
Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
Wednesday, 19 Feb 2014
By Courtney Coren
Wednesday marks the fifth anniversary of the modern tea party movement, which began with a single rant from CNBC's Rick Santelli on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.
"A lot of people have been credited with starting the modern-day tea party but make no mistake, it was Rick Santelli," conservative talk show host Glenn Beck said in an email to Business Insider. "His off the cuff monologue spoke the words that millions of Americans felt but could not nor dare not speak."
Santelli was ranting, as he is known to do on CNBC, on Feb. 19, 2009 about the homeowner bailout that was being proposed by the Obama administration.
"We're thinking of having a Chicago tea party in July," Santelli said in 2009. "All you capitalists that want to show up to Lake Michigan, I'm going to start organizing."
In 2010, Santelli called the rant the "best five minutes of my life."
He told Business Insider that he doesn't "feel any differently now."
"Lots of people, companies and agencies played a role but that day I was focused on the homeowners that failed in their personal financial responsibility," he said. "It was about contract law and about the government promoting bad behavior."
Santelli said he thinks that he "said something that lit the fuse" that led to the modern-day tea party movement.
"I was fed up, the country was fed up ... taxpayers were on the hook after the credit bubble popped," Santelli said.
The tea party is credited for fueling the GOP's win in the House in 2010 and still remains a force in the Republican Party and politics.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/tea-party-CNBC-Rick-Santelli-fifth/2014/02/19/id/553593#ixzz2toVJVr8p
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they peaked in 2 years and have been a footnote ever since. it's a shame, because their fiscal message was a great one.
however, their inability to enact change within the system was their downfall, IMO. They couldn't work with dems and moderates to bring them in. Instead, it was zero compromise. They shut it down, but what did that achieve? Repubs quietly removed the re-election funds and let the tea parties all lose in their primary 2 years later.
I don't like career politicians, but some of the people that won office... grown men in congress screaming "shut it down!" because they wanted to inflame the base, and they probably didnt know all the ramifications of doing so... military and disabled folks not getting their checks, etc.
So maybe they'll try it again in a few years. Call themselves something else, bring the financial responsibility issue, but bring better candidates. Oh, and keep the party STRICTLY about fiscal things. The moment extremism in other areas entered the tea party brochure, half their membership left. I mean, strict constitutionalists say "keep the govt out of it!" while strict religious people say "i want the govt to intervene on a number of social issues, overriding what the states want!"
Those two VERY different mindsets put an instant line down the tea party. At least the dems agree - they're all shitbird libs who love govt being involved and legalizing everything they agree with. 40% every time, they got it. But the tea party - they were cut down the middle by this, IMO.
so next time - stick to the fiscal and get more qualified people that will fix things within the system, not exist simply to break things they don't konw how to fix.
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Santelli, the putative father of the Tea Party, had a televised fit b/c a gov. solution was offered to those in tanking mortgages.
Let's rephrase that. A multi-millionaire broker / trader predicted tyranny and Cuba-style communism if mortgage based relief was granted to those devastated by the economic collapse.
Let's amplify that. The speculative traders and brokers and financial experts, of which Santelli is a card carrying member, that actually created the economic disaster are calling for the punishment of the victims of that crime. As if.
Then right wing 'grass roots' efforts wholly financed by big moneyed republican interests started to spring up.
Then costumed citizens started showing up at these events positing themselves as concerned Americans for a government gone awry (where were they the past 8 years?) while calling for secession from the US (in Texas of course).
They are wholly ignorant of economics, government and history. That's not a disparaging comment. It's descriptive.
Happy Birthday indeed.
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Both of you two spouting the standard liberal party line i see.
'Waaaa the mean Tea Party wont play along and do everything the dems wantscompromise!!! They 'shut down the government'!! They want 'crazy, radical ' things like sticking to the constitution, financial responsibility, and limiting the size and power of the federal government!!! Omg how HORRIBLE is that!! Waaaaaaaaa!
Hahaha what a bunch of obama pajamas wearing tools
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they owned the House. And they didn't get results.
Whether they didn't have the know-how, the discipline, I dunno... but looking back... did they actually change anything?
I like the fiscal idea, but I think they were infiltrated with so many social wedge issues that they fell apart. And, I can't recall any awesome legislation they wrote which fixed things.
Blame the dems, but when you own the house and the american public is on your side, you oughta be able to capitalize upon it. Heck, by 2012 their influence was so weak that a shit RINO like Romney was able to beat every self-proclaimed tea party favorite.
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You cant 'get anything done' if you only control one of the 3 branches of government
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Coulter: 'Shysters' Claiming to Represent Tea Party Hurt GOP
Thursday, 20 Feb 2014
By Greg Richter
Ann Coulter says she supports the tea party but isn't convinced all the people who claim the title are legitimate.
"There are shysters," the conservative author said Wednesday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity." "Don't trust anyone saying they are trying to defeat 'establishment Republicans.'"
"Of course, I love the tea party," Coulter said, but she limits them mostly to people in the "heart of America" who want to see change. She said tea party groups such as the Senate Conservatives Fund are just trying to bilk donors of their money.
Rather than focusing on defeating Republicans, the tea party should focus on getting a majority in the Senate, Coulter said.
"If it weren't for shysters running against 'establishment Republicans' we would have 51 Republicans Senators right now," she told host Sean Hannity. "One big election this year and we would have a veto-proof majority. So thank you, shysters and con men."
Repealing Obamacare should be the tea party's main goal, Coulter said.
"Keep your eye on the ball. It is going to wreck the country," she said, adding that the healthcare law will not, as some Republicans believe, fall of its own weight.
"Public education sucks, and that hasn't fallen on its own," she said, and neither have the subway system, airport security or the Internal Revenue Service.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ann-Coulter-Sean-Hannity/2014/02/20/id/553710#ixzz2tsrBT6TZ
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You cant 'get anything done' if you only control one of the 3 branches of government
I'd add that, for one thing, the Republicans as a whole don't really own the legislative branch (yet). Just The House.
The other thing, and this has been pretty big, is that the Tea Party faction doesn't cooperate so well (and that's putting it nicely) with the mainstream Repubs.
This seems to hurt overall Republican chances of "getting anything done" more than almost anything else, it seems to me.
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My comment is lame because it doesn't say anything more than what blacken and BB aleady said, lol. Sorry.
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I'd add that, for one thing, the Republicans as a whole don't really own the legislative branch (yet). Just The House.
The other thing, and this has been pretty big, is that the Tea Party faction doesn't cooperate so well (and that's putting it nicely) with the mainstream Repubs.
This seems to hurt overall Republican chances of "getting anything done" more than almost anything else, it seems to me.
True even in the house they are the minority to the establishment GOP, which is truly a seperate party at this point. They basically just go along with whatever the dems want, after feigning a half hearted attempt to 'fight it'.
Id say the TP are the only ones actually trying to 'get anything done' for the good of the country, there just arent enough of them yet.
The dems and their toothless GOP collaborators are pulling the country as far left as they can, driving it further and further into debt, weakness and decline.
The TP is the only one of them opposing open borders and the surrender of US national sovereignty
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You cant 'get anything done' if you only control one of the 3 branches of government
true. they coulnd't stop obamacrapcare.
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The TP is the only one of them opposing open borders and the surrender of US national sovereignty
I dunno... palin and Rubio and Rand Paul are all "tea party favorites" or were, very recently.
All 3 have made some pretty pro-amesty statements.
Cruz might be the only anti-amnesty, major profile, tea partier left.
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I dunno... palin and Rubio and Rand Paul are all "tea party favorites" or were, very recently.
All 3 have made some pretty pro-amesty statements.
Cruz might be the only anti-amnesty, major profile, tea partier left.
True, once in power most people fold to the temptation and embrace the establishment. Palin i never considered much more than a distraction, shes not the brightest bulb. Rubio is a dork, like you say looks like a confused kid half the time. Paul's stances lately are a bit puzzling...
This is what is so rare about Cruz...hes doing exactly what he campaigned to do. He doing what he said he would do. Hes standing up for the right thing, sticking to his principles, even in the face of immense heat and slander from all sides.
This is why so many have rallied around him and support him, and also why he has struck such a nerve with his opponents. He isnt folding or selling out, he is instead methodically pointing out the problems and wrongness of the usual politics, and this is i furiating the establishment on both sides
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they owned the House. And they didn't get results.
Better than the result obtained by Democrats who controlled Congress for a few years.
Their result: Flush the nation down the toilet.
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Both of you two spouting the standard liberal party line i see.
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I can see your reservation about my post. It's based on critical thinking which to you seems to be carrying the liberal line.
Your authoritarian slip is showing.
Cutting every safety net program is not financial responsibility. That is reactionary bollocks sold to you by the people financing your propaganda (not a negative word in the days of Bernays).
If you could point out a constitutional argument of the tea party that's not insane, that might be a good starting point for discussion.
The federal government is huge and it's not going back in size. I suggest you find ways to make it run better rather than trying to shrink it to the size where you can drown it...you know what I mean. The size of government is never going to return to its halcyon days of the 1700s where, apparently all of the tea baggers reside in their collective minds.
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True, once in power most people fold to the temptation and embrace the establishment. Palin i never considered much more than a distraction, shes not the brightest bulb. Rubio is a dork, like you say looks like a confused kid half the time. Paul's stances lately are a bit puzzling...
This is what is so rare about Cruz...hes doing exactly what he campaigned to do. He doing what he said he would do. Hes standing up for the right thing, sticking to his principles, even in the face of immense heat and slander from all sides.
This is why so many have rallied around him and support him, and also why he has struck such a nerve with his opponents. He isnt folding or selling out, he is instead methodically pointing out the problems and wrongness of the usual politics, and this is i furiating the establishment on both sides
That's why people either love him or hate him. I guess he figured he was elected for a reason...
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Coulter: 'Shysters' Claiming to Represent Tea Party Hurt GOP
Thursday, 20 Feb 2014
By Greg Richter
Ann Coulter says she supports the tea party but isn't convinced all the people who claim the title are legitimate.
"There are shysters," the conservative author said Wednesday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity." "Don't trust anyone saying they are trying to defeat 'establishment Republicans.'"
"Of course, I love the tea party," Coulter said, but she limits them mostly to people in the "heart of America" who want to see change. She said tea party groups such as the Senate Conservatives Fund are just trying to bilk donors of their money.
Rather than focusing on defeating Republicans, the tea party should focus on getting a majority in the Senate, Coulter said.
"If it weren't for shysters running against 'establishment Republicans' we would have 51 Republicans Senators right now," she told host Sean Hannity. "One big election this year and we would have a veto-proof majority. So thank you, shysters and con men."
Repealing Obamacare should be the tea party's main goal, Coulter said.
"Keep your eye on the ball. It is going to wreck the country," she said, adding that the healthcare law will not, as some Republicans believe, fall of its own weight.
"Public education sucks, and that hasn't fallen on its own," she said, and neither have the subway system, airport security or the Internal Revenue Service.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ann-Coulter-Sean-Hannity/2014/02/20/id/553710#ixzz2tsrBT6TZ
Do you have an opinion or do you just post other people's opinions? I mean these articles you post bad-mouthing the government and the USA has sort of anti-American sentiments blaming public education, the IRS, or, for some reason airports and subways.
This government has been on a crash course since "Rainbow Ronnie" drove it into the ground, but American education and the subway system are not the cause of the breakdown. Neither is the post office, the IRS, Social Security, or Medicare.
(http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=plantsmantx7564CF6F-D94A-CD67-7E38-E121134E761B.jpg&width=936)
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true. they coulnd't stop obamacrapcare.
You don't say. A Heritage Foundation republican healthcare coverage plan is crapola??? I am shocked there's gambling in Vegas.
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Santelli, the putative father of the Tea Party, had a televised fit b/c a gov. solution was offered to those in tanking mortgages.
Let's rephrase that. A multi-millionaire broker / trader predicted tyranny and Cuba-style communism if mortgage based relief was granted to those devastated by the economic collapse.
Let's amplify that. The speculative traders and brokers and financial experts, of which Santelli is a card carrying member, that actually created the economic disaster are calling for the punishment of the victims of that crime. As if.
Then right wing 'grass roots' efforts wholly financed by big moneyed republican interests started to spring up.
Then costumed citizens started showing up at these events positing themselves as concerned Americans for a government gone awry (where were they the past 8 years?) while calling for secession from the US (in Texas of course).
They are wholly ignorant of economics, government and history. That's not a disparaging comment. It's descriptive.
Happy Birthday indeed.
Ya lost me at "putative". lol
Brother, you are trying to kill cockroaches with a nuclear bomb by using such a well-written and well-reasoned argument in an effort to write persuasively on this board which is largely a right-wing echo chamber and (generally) poorly-informed one at that.
Personally, I loved your post, though, and hope you stick around for a while.
Thank you.
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True, once in power most people fold to the temptation and embrace the establishment. Palin i never considered much more than a distraction, shes not the brightest bulb. Rubio is a dork, like you say looks like a confused kid half the time. Paul's stances lately are a bit puzzling...
This is what is so rare about Cruz...hes doing exactly what he campaigned to do. He doing what he said he would do. Hes standing up for the right thing, sticking to his principles, even in the face of immense heat and slander from all sides.
This is why so many have rallied around him and support him, and also why he has struck such a nerve with his opponents. He isnt folding or selling out, he is instead methodically pointing out the problems and wrongness of the usual politics, and this is i furiating the establishment on both sides
Cruz is insane. But he did do what he promised:
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2013/07/19/ted-cruz-joins-the-defund-obamacare-or-shut-down-the-government-crowd
Too bad he hurt America with his political opportunism. He is principled. But so was Mussolini.
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Ya lost me at "putative". lol
Brother, you are trying to kill cockroaches with a nuclear bomb by using such a well-written and well-reasoned argument in an effort to write persuasively on this board which is largely a right-wing echo chamber and (generally) poorly-informed one at that.
Personally, I loved your post, though, and hope you stick around for a while.
Thank you.
You sound like Sinatra in that sailor's movie. I did not know that sounded pedantic. There I go again.
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You sound like Sinatra in that sailor's movie. I did not know that sounded pedantic. There I go again.
I wouldn't go so far as to say "pedantic" but you are talking to muscle-heads, ya know?
The ones dumb enough to be interested in bodybuilding and yet smart enough to have some real book-learnin' behind them aren't so common, I'm guessing.
Even more rare are the ones that combine those qualities with compassion for their fellow man -- and that explains the general political leaning of this board, I think.
Sinatra in a sailor's movie? That went over my head. Hope it isn't too bad...lol
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I wouldn't go so far as to say "pedantic" but you are talking to muscle-heads, ya know?
The ones dumb enough to be interested in bodybuilding and yet smart enough to have some real book-learnin' behind them aren't so common, I'm guessing.
Even more rare are the ones that combine those qualities with compassion for their fellow man -- and that explains the general political leaning of this board, I think.
Sinatra in a sailor's movie? That went over my head. Hope it isn't too bad...lol
I train too. I haven't since the birth of my twins for obvious reasons, but I'm going to get back on the horse again since they are a little older and not in need of constant care.
My allusions are old b/c I'm old. Sorry about that. I know about this board. I've lurked here before.
And you are a 100% correct. The far right wing faction flocks here like flies on a ribroast. That's how the authoritarian crowd works. They talk about 'freedom' but that is the last thing in the world they really want. Anyone stepping out of line with their political dogma is attacked mercilessly. That's the authoritarian way.
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Do you have an opinion or do you just post other people's opinions? I mean these articles you post bad-mouthing the government and the USA has sort of anti-American sentiments blaming public education, the IRS, or, for some reason airports and subways.
This government has been on a crash course since "Rainbow Ronnie" drove it into the ground, but American education and the subway system are not the cause of the breakdown. Neither is the post office, the IRS, Social Security, or Medicare.
(http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=plantsmantx7564CF6F-D94A-CD67-7E38-E121134E761B.jpg&width=936)
Both. :)
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Good people overall
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Cruz is insane. But he did do what he promised:
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2013/07/19/ted-cruz-joins-the-defund-obamacare-or-shut-down-the-government-crowd
Too bad he hurt America with his political opportunism. He is principled. But so was Mussolini.
Once again, explain how he is 'insane' ::)
You come off as trying to sound real intelligent and painting the right as ignorant peabrains...yet you have done nothing but regurgitate the standard baseless left wing talking points with nothing to back them up.
'Authoritarian' lmao...rich irony coming from someone who supports the party of BAN and their nanny-state, 'we will tell you whats best for you' ideology
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Once again, explain how he is 'insane' ::)
You come off as trying to sound real intelligent and painting the right as ignorant peabrains...yet you have done nothing but regurgitate the standard baseless left wing talking points with nothing to back them up.
'Authoritarian' lmao...rich irony coming from someone who supports the party of BAN and their nanny-state, 'we will tell you whats best for you' ideology
My first post in this thread is a good example of fact based analysis. Point out the errors in that post.
Cruz is insane b/c he damaged the country financially with his promised shutdown of the government. That is another undeniable fact. Anyone willingly damaging the country, the USA, for no apparent end other than to prove he hates the ACA is insane.
I might make a thread on why you and your right wing friends are authoritarian. Here's some info for now:
1. Complete surrender to Authoritarians - Rush, Palin, Beck do all your thinking and you agree. Cruz & Paul say ridiculous things easily refutable and your ilk parrots them unexamined.
2. Motivational and irrational fear: Obama is a Kenyan, dictator, socialist, destroying your rights and the USA itself.."the most radical president ever"...who would not even retaliate in a nuclear war." As it's been posted before - Obama is to the right politically. The ACA isn't just a law you disagree with, no, it will create death panels killing your grandparents, euthanizing downs syndrome babies and taking your jobs. The Tea Party is a scared party that is exploited by the Authoritarian figureheads.
3. Hostile Self-righteousness - Tea partiers are the only True Americans. Not liberals. They are commies. Your hostility to any divergent viewpoint is obvious. Just look at this site. You tea partiers gang up on any disparate opinion...any opinion of your own, no matter how foolish, must be abided by. You shut down debate, you don't encourage it.
4. Racist - your group is tight ethnocentrically speaking.
5. Prejudicial victimization: You are always the victim and you project your own obvious infirmities on your opponents. You saw my first post and did not address it. Why? It was counter to your programmed understanding of the tea party propaganda, so you lashed out at me. Look at that first post again. The look at your latest post how "I'm really the authoritarian based on some non-existent 'nanny state.'
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Your entire premises are flawed from the start. Clearly you are so enamored of the Left and filled with bs about the Right that any attempt to change your mind will probably be futile.
to start with, the cause of the 'shutdown' was entirely on reid, obama and the dems, for their complete refusal to compromise or even negotiate AT ALL. Only one side was all or nothing-the dems. The House passed measures to keep funding everything but ocare. It was the dems who decided ' all or nothing', who were totally willing to shut own whatever it took to keep their unpopular ocare just as they wanted it.
The irony that follows is mindboggling; the dems were willing to stall everything to keep their pet legislation alive and unchanged, despite the fact that the majority of the population DID NOT SUPPORT IT. Cruz, in his opposition to ocare, actually represented the majority of the nation. He did exactly what his constituents elected him to do. He did what he said he would do. How is that crazy?
And of course the richest irony of all was that the dems, after weeks of smearing cruz in the worst possible way, started seeing ocare unfold disastrously, and pressured obama to do EXACTLY WHAT CRUZ WANTED HIM TO DO.
Cruz's actions and statements were proven correct and COMPLETELY VALIDATED as events unfolded. The dems have been delaying and rewriting the law on the fly for months now, despite shutting down the gov in stubborness whe cruz asked them to do the same thing. How on earth can this be defended in tbe face of such blinding hypocrisy??
The only ones 'hurting america' is the obama adminstration and their policies, not 'ted cruz'. This is playing out before our eyes, despite the liberal media's relentless whitewashing and sugar coating attempts. Any 'hurt' caused by the shutdown was 100% on the administration, as they were not only ultimately responsible, but attempted to deliberately 'make it hurt' with nonsensical closures and such because they knew their media arm would spin it to ensure the majority of the public blamed the republicans, if not ted cruz personally.
Lastly, your claim that the tea party 'gets marching orders' from rush or fox news is laughable...fox mostly represents the establishment GOP, who is actively waging war on the tea party. The whole 'rush' thing is just another left wing talking point. Ive never listened or watched Rush in my entire life. I think hannity is a smug annoying douche. Of the 3 main political groups( dem, GOP, TEA), none is so fundamentally anti-authoritarian in their ideology as the TP. This is clearly shown in their support for limited government, individual liberty, and their naturally suspicious of consolidated power, anti-establishment thinking, as well as their champions (cruz) refusing to 'play along' with their so-called 'leaders' despite massive criticism.
How does any of this represent 'rigid authoritarianism' ? For examples of that, there is no better example than the current democratic party, with their 'cult of personality' dear leader obama, their virtual lockstep with all marching orders passed down from him almost to a man, and their war on individual liberty and expansion of the central government authority, intention to 'work around congress when i know whats best for the american people', and general philosophy that 'government knows best' and that people cannot be trusted to make decisions for themselves.
And the 'racist' thing is so desperate and baseless, it does not even merit discussion.
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I like cruz in that he's stuck to his guns on these issues, while rand, paul, and rubio have all folded into Rinos.
however, I dislike one thing about him - trying to disown the govt shutdown that he clearly ushered in. "it was obama..."
No, it was you, and a lot of people in your base love that shit, so just stop thinking about swing voters in fall 2016 and just embrace what you did there.
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I like cruz in that he's stuck to his guns on these issues, while rand, paul, and rubio have all folded into Rinos.
however, I dislike one thing about him - trying to disown the govt shutdown that he clearly ushered in. "it was obama..."
No, it was you, and a lot of people in your base love that shit, so just stop thinking about swing voters in fall 2016 and just embrace what you did there.
One senator cannot 'shut down the government' by himself.
The decision to impliment 'the shutdown' was made by the administration, not by 'ted cruz'.
The administration was not 'forced' to do anything. They made the decision to do so, gambling that they could put the blame on cruz. Ted cruz cannot force the obama administration to do anything singlehandedly, give me a break.
He became the public face for it due to his long filibuster, but it is extremely delusional to believe that reid, obama and the dems were just innocent victims here ::)
Cruz's base applauded him because he actually stood and fought where everyone else did the usual cave, not because he 'shut down the government'
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One senator cannot 'shut down the government' by himself.
The decision to impliment 'the shutdown' was made by the administration, not by 'ted cruz'.
The administration was not 'forced' to do anything. They made the decision to do so, gambling that they could put the blame on cruz. Ted cruz cannot force the obama administration to do anything singlehandedly, give me a break.
He became the public face for it due to his long filibuster, but it is extremely delusional to believe that reid, obama and the dems were just innocent victims here ::)
Cruz's base applauded him because he actually stood and fought where everyone else did the usual cave, not because he 'shut down the government'
Exactly. Completely agree.
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/28/1273041/-Jon-Stewart-debunks-Ted-Cruz-s-lies-about-the-shutdown#
jon stewart video pretty much wrecking this argument, and in a pretty funny way too.
oh, i know, lib lib lib lib lib lib...
but yeah, cruz owns that shit.
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Your entire premises are flawed from the start. Clearly you are so enamored of the Left and filled with bs about the Right that any attempt to change your mind will probably be futile.
to start with, the cause of the 'shutdown' was entirely on reid, obama and the dems, for their complete refusal to compromise or even negotiate AT ALL. Only one side was all or nothing-the dems. The House passed measures to keep funding everything but ocare. It was the dems who decided ' all or nothing', who were totally willing to shut own whatever it took to keep their unpopular ocare just as they wanted it.
Do you want me to catalog all of the republican quotes targeting a government shutdown and once accomplished, stating 'we got exactly what we wanted.'
So it really was the Democrats that shut down the government? That's what Thomas Sowell said. Except he was lying through his teeth and you believed it because he told you so and it fit your prejudice. So it must be true. Another authoritarian trait.
Did the democrats change the rules the night before the resolution vote on the gridlocked Senate bill? No, the republicans did that here: http://rules.house.gov/bill/113/hj-res-59-sa-1
So what happened? The republican majority House Rules Committee voted the night of Sept. 30 to change that rule for this specific bill. They added language dictating that any motion "may be offered only by the majority Leader or his designee." That would be Eric Cantor. A lunatic fringe republican. The spending bill never made it to the floor for a full vote b/c of the republicans and Eric Cantor.
The irony that follows is mindboggling; the dems were willing to stall everything to keep their pet legislation alive and unchanged, despite the fact that the majority of the population DID NOT SUPPORT IT. Cruz, in his opposition to ocare, actually represented the majority of the nation. He did exactly what his constituents elected him to do. He did what he said he would do. How is that crazy?
There is no irony. The republicans set out to shut down the government from day one and they did it. And then they blamed the democrats and you ran with that incorrect story arc.
Another authoritarian trait.
And of course the richest irony of all was that the dems, after weeks of smearing cruz in the worst possible way, started seeing ocare unfold disastrously, and pressured obama to do EXACTLY WHAT CRUZ WANTED HIM TO DO.
Again, there's no irony b/c the republicans did exactly what they intended to do.
And please, tell the millions and millions of children and adults previously barred from insurance coverage due to a pre-existing condition like cancer what an unmitigated failure the ACA is.
I dare you. Total lack of empathy for other people--another Authoritarian trait.
Cruz's actions and statements were proven correct and COMPLETELY VALIDATED as events unfolded. The dems have been delaying and rewriting the law on the fly for months now, despite shutting down the gov in stubborness whe cruz asked them to do the same thing. How on earth can this be defended in tbe face of such blinding hypocrisy??
Do you see how you are projecting Cruz and his intended gov shut down on democrats? Sure, of course, the ACA was the law of the land after the Sup. Ct. gave it the greenlight so naturally, the democrats tried to shut down the government to scuttle their own legislation.
Do you see how crazy that sounds now? Do you see what you're doing by projecting Cruz's insane behavior on the democrats?
The only ones 'hurting america' is the obama adminstration and their policies, not 'ted cruz'. This is playing out before our eyes, despite the liberal media's relentless whitewashing and sugar coating attempts. Any 'hurt' caused by the shutdown was 100% on the administration, as they were not only ultimately responsible, but attempted to deliberately 'make it hurt' with nonsensical closures and such because they knew their media arm would spin it to ensure the majority of the public blamed the republicans, if not ted cruz personally.
More projection. What more needs to be said? We have a plethora of rightwing republican quotes stating - we're going to shutdown the government", "We got what we wanted, we shut down the government" The republicans changed the voting rules to putting all the power to bring an up/down vote on the bill in Cantor's hands and he declined, which assured a gov. shutdown. He's a republican.
And you still blame the democrats? That's straight out of the authoritarian psychological profile.
Lastly, your claim that the tea party 'gets marching orders' from rush or fox news is laughable...fox mostly represents the establishment GOP, who is actively waging war on the tea party. The whole 'rush' thing is just another left wing talking point. Ive never listened or watched Rush in my entire life. I think hannity is a smug annoying douche. Of the 3 main political groups( dem, GOP, TEA), none is so fundamentally anti-authoritarian in their ideology as the TP. This is clearly shown in their support for limited government, individual liberty, and their naturally suspicious of consolidated power, anti-establishment thinking, as well as their champions (cruz) refusing to 'play along' with their so-called 'leaders' despite massive criticism.
I did not supply an exhaustive list of rightwing authoritarian figures. I don't have to. The authoritarian psychology is one of 'follow the leader' out of fear. The authoritarian individual is a bully in groups, drawing wilder and wilder behavior from the support of his equally misinformed colleagues. Even when presented with counterfactual evidence, the authoritarian will cling to his dogmatic beliefs rather than mediate his understanding of the situation.
How does any of this represent 'rigid authoritarianism' ? For examples of that, there is no better example than the current democratic party, with their 'cult of personality' dear leader obama, their virtual lockstep with all marching orders passed down from him almost to a man, and their war on individual liberty and expansion of the central government authority, intention to 'work around congress when i know whats best for the american people', and general philosophy that 'government knows best' and that people cannot be trusted to make decisions for themselves.
And the 'racist' thing is so desperate and baseless, it does not even merit discussion.
See my prior distinctions. I'll make a full thread on this when I have the time. My two year old son just smashed my $2000 tv.
If liberals are anything, it's anti-authoritarian. We can't get out of our own way. We can't agree on anything. We wanted the Public Option, we got republican light. We wanted the end of the wars and Bush et al. tried for war crimes, we got dick, we wanted support for organized labor, OBama never heard of the AFLCIO, we wanted so much more and instead we got a rightwing moderate president in moderate leftwing rhetorical clothing.
Does that sound like liberals towing the Obama company line?
The people / government decision making meme is a waste of time. it's fairly meaningless.
Tell me, who flies the stars and bars? State's rights? Voter suppression legislation? Hint: it ain't liberals.
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Exactly. Completely agree.
Read my response and tell me if you still completely agree with that hogwash.
You didn't really look into this, did you? You completely agree b/c it fits your political prejudice. This isn't debatable and having Matrix point out that one man can't shut down the government is fairly disingenuous. He was one leading the charge for a government shutdown. Crazy, authoritarian nonsense that hurt America.
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Read my response and tell me if you still completely agree with that hogwash.
You didn't really look into this, did you? You completely agree b/c it fits your political prejudice. This isn't debatable and having Matrix point out that one man can't shut down the government is fairly disingenuous. He was one leading the charge for a government shutdown. Crazy, authoritarian nonsense that hurt America.
I read most of your response. I still agree with him.
What's funny and ironic is you repeatedly calling him and Republicans "authoritarian" then saying in the next breath that your position "isn't debatable."
In any event, Cruz et al. were vindicated. Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster. It should have been delayed, which is what they were asking for. And the really stupid thing is that "delay" is exactly what the president is doing with large segments of law, but only to prevent more fallout before the 2014 and 2016 elections.
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obamacare IS garbage. But until the repubs' alternative is something besides "Repeal.... then we'll figure something out!", I'm not sure they'll get any traction.
The best the repubs can do at this point is to get into power and modify it so it's better. Like social security and medicare, there is no going back, unfortunately.
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I read most of your response. I still agree with him.
What's funny and ironic is you repeatedly calling him and Republicans "authoritarian" then saying in the next breath that your position "isn't debatable."
In any event, Cruz et al. were vindicated. Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster. It should have been delayed, which is what they were asking for. And the really stupid thing is that "delay" is exactly what the president is doing with large segments of law, but only to prevent more fallout before the 2014 and 2016 elections.
You're good at muddying the waters. "What's funny and ironic..."isn't debatable." It is a very good thing for you that I'm here to clear up what you are trying to do. You try to portray me as someone stepping into his own authoritative trap. But it just ain't so. The 'what' of what is not debatable is the fact that your and Matrix's assertion that 'the administration' shut down the government is not correct.
Just look at the change of procedural rules by the house republicans that did in fact cause the shutdown...not the Whitehouse, not the democrats.
That's just a non-debatable fact. An Authoritarian trait is the complete inability to modify one's perspective in the face of countervailing FACTS.
Do you see how you cling to your prejudicial erroneous understanding of the matter? Do you See that?
And there is your second authoritarian trait with your opinion of the ACA - you just don't disagree with the ACA, it's an "unmitigated disaster." Except it isn't, is it? The removal of the pre-existing condition bar for coverage is great for millions and millions of Americans. You said so yourself in another thread.
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I read most of your response. I still agree with him.
What's funny and ironic is you repeatedly calling him and Republicans "authoritarian" then saying in the next breath that your position "isn't debatable."
In any event, Cruz et al. were vindicated. Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster. It should have been delayed, which is what they were asking for. And the really stupid thing is that "delay" is exactly what the president is doing with large segments of law, but only to prevent more fallout before the 2014 and 2016 elections.
Exactly. The irony is strong lol. And the more this clown raves about Obamacare, which is supported by some 30-something percent of the population and is being changed on the fly before our very eyes on almost a weekly basis to try to delay or neutralize its ever-coming pitfalls for the purpose of saving political face, the more of an extremist, strictly partisan obama-worshipping authoritarian he shows himself to be.