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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 24KT on February 23, 2014, 11:12:46 AM
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US airman stands his ground in Florida, sentenced to 25 years
(http://thegrio.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/michael-giles-16x9.png?w=1800&h=1014)
A former U.S. airman is currently sitting in a Florida prison for what his supporters argue was a simple act of self-defense.
Just two years into a 25-year sentence, he joins a list of cases that have drawn national attention to the Sunshine State’s sentencing and gun laws. Encouraged by the activity, his family is hoping to stir up interest in his case and is currently petitioning Florida’s governor for clemency.
In the spring of 2010, 26-year-old Michael Giles was on active duty with the Unites States Air Force and stationed in Tampa. The married father of three had recently finished two tours in the Middle East and was looking forward to a career in the military, says his family. One night in February, a friend invited Giles to party at a Tallahassee nightclub. Shorty after arriving, a fight broke out among members of fraternities from nearby Florida A&M University.
According to court documents, an argument quickly escalated into a brawl involving 30 to 40 young men.
Giles reportedly was not involved in the melee but, separated from his friends, went outside to the car where he had a gun, for which he had a concealed carry permit. Giles put the weapon in his pants pocket and searched the crowd for his friends. Suddenly, he says, someone from the crowd punched him. Knocked to the ground and in fear for his life, Giles says he pulled out the gun and fired one shot into the leg of his alleged attacker.
Three men were injured, wounded by bullet fragments. Giles was immediately arrested and charged with second-degree attempted murder.
Aside from his having no criminal background, Giles’ supporters argue that he was merely defending himself from an unprovoked attack. In fact, when testifying in the case, the man who punched Giles, Courtney Thrower, admitted that the assault was random. “The first person I get to I’m going to hit,” he remembered thinking.
Other witnesses testified that Thrower, having heard of an attack on one of his fraternity brothers, was outside of the nightclub pacing with his fists clenched and, in the middle of the brawl, “leapfrogged” from the crowd to hit Giles. Despite all of that, according to the Florida state prosecutors, Giles had no right to use deadly force that night.
“The evidence is clear here that the act of pointing a gun into a group of people, even if you’re not specifically deciding to kill them, is a crime,” said Assistant State Attorney Jack Campbell in his closing statements during the trial. “There is no self-defense that is applicable based on the evidence that’s before the jury.”
The defense argued, however, that Giles was justified in using deadly force if he reasonably believed that such force was necessary to prevent “imminent death or great bodily harm” to himself.
“He doesn’t have to think he’s going to get killed, even though people looking in from the outside thought someone could get killed,” said defense attorney Don Pumphrey in his closing. “If the defendant was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, where he had a right to stand, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force.”
The jury disagreed however and Giles was ultimately convicted in August of 2011 of the lesser charge of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, a crime that comes with a mandatory minimum sentence of twenty years in the state of Florida. It is the same sentence Marissa Alexander received in her controversial case – a case recently awarded a new trial on appeal.
“10-20-Life” (Florida Statute 775.087) is a controversial Florida law under which Giles and Alexander were sentenced. It confers a minimum sentence of 10 years for a felony conviction where a firearm is merely brandishing. Firing the gun adds another 10 years – even if no one was hit, as was the case with Alexander. And, if someone is hit, the shooter necessarily faces 25 years to life in prison.
“Frankly, I think the 25-year mandatory is overly harsh on the facts of this case, but that’s what the law requires I do and I intend to follow the law,” said Judge James C. Hankinson when issuing Giles’ verdict
Given the facts of the case, Giles’ supporters – led in an effort by his parents – are hoping to have his case reevaluated by the state. His mother, Phyllis Giles, has created an online petition through Change.org asking Florida Governor Rick Scott for executive clemency for her son. She claims that not only do the facts of the case show that Michael was reasonably defending himself, but that his lawyer pressured him against taking the stand and evoking a “Stand-Your-Ground” defense.
Giles’ new defense attorney is currently in the process of filing a motion for post-conviction relief, claiming that he received ineffective assistance of counsel and, so far, the petition for clemency has received more than 56,000 signatures.
Florida State Senator Dwight Bullard (D-39) has also written a letter to Gov. Scott asking him to commute Giles’ sentence. According to a statement to theGrio from Bullard’s office, he has received no response from the governor.
“As of yet our office has heard nothing from Gov. Scott’s office. His office has time and again proven non-responsive on issues related to injustice,” Bullard said in a statement to theGrio. “He subsequently has turned a definitive blind eye to high[-]profile plights of injustice involving African-Americans. His lack of intervention on behalf of Marissa Alexander and lack of compassion for the killings of Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis have not gone unnoticed by Black Floridians – and all Floridians. So it comes as no surprise that he has been noticeably absent in the case of Michael Giles. Nonetheless I will continue pressing his office and others to take notice of cases like Mr. Giles, Ms. Alexander and others.”
In response, John Tupps, deputy press secretary for Governor Scott, told theGrio, “Florida is at a 42-year low in its crime rate, and Governor Scott works every day to ensure that Florida families are kept safe and have the opportunity to live the American Dream.”
Michael Giles supporters believe that’s not enough and are asking for direct action on his behalf. Ultimately, Phyllis Giles says she would like the state to take into consideration her son’s character and the extraordinary circumstance he was in the night of the shooting.
“Michael is a very caring person, never been in trouble, never been arrested. He’s a family man. We’re a bible-based family and both my husband and I are retired military,” she says. “We believe that we have raised a good man, so we don’t understand how the state of Florida could sentence him to 25 years in prison for defending himself. Michael is a good man. He is honest. He is hard working and, through all of this, he is our rock and confidence we need to keep fighting.”
http://thegrio.com/2013/12/04/us-airman-stands-his-ground-in-florida-sentenced-to-25-years/
Stand Your Ground is the Law in Florida, ...unless you're Black.
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SYG or no, if the facts in the posted story are mostly correct (i.e., if the airman used his gun after being knock to the ground with no provocation), then 25 years seems inappropriately excessive.
How is one expected to retreat when on the ground, anyway? Are you supposed to be familiar with mma-style "shrimping" or what?
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He should never have gotten his weapon...the sentence is ridiculous.
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A completely different case. From the limited number of your posts I've read it seems like you are a bit of a race-baiter and a racist. You're definitely anti-Semitic. As a Jew it's pretty clear.
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He should never have gotten his weapon...the sentence is ridiculous.
Yeah, that (he shouldn't have retrieved his gun in the first place) was likely an important factor in his prosecution, I'm thinking.
Sort of hard to completely go along with that, though, if he had a valid CC permit and wasn't inside some business that had a rule against guns.
If he really was just looking for his friends (in order to make sure they were OK and maybe help them to get away from that situation) and wasn't looking to scare some fools with his gun, it seems to me like that'd be a fairly good and legal reason to strap up if you have a CC permit.
Otherwise, when is it OK to have your gun on you? When hiking in mountain lion territory only?
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A completely different case. From the limited number of your posts I've read it seems like you are a bit of a race-baiter and a racist.
What do you mean it is a completely different case?
How so? A different case from what? ...from a guy firing into a car load of teens driving AWAY?
...a different case than a man chasing an unarmed teen running AWAY?
...a different case than a woman firing a warning shot?
Yes absolutely it is a different case. It is the case of a man who was randomly attacked out of no where in a situation where he could have lost his life, discharging his firearm to save his life. Maybe if he had killed the guy, he would have been free to walk the streets?
I think it's disgusting that an airman does two tours of duty, and at the age of 24/25 is sentenced to 25 years to life in prison, for defending himself and saving his own life.
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What do you mean it is a completely different case?
How so? A different case from what? ...from a guy firing into a car load of teens driving AWAY?
...a different case than a man chasing an unarmed teen running AWAY?
...a different case than a woman firing a warning shot?
Yes absolutely it is a different case. It is the case of a man who was randomly attacked out of no where in a situation where he could have lost his life, discharging his firearm to save his life. Maybe if he had killed the guy, he would have been free to walk the streets?
I think it's disgusting that an airman does two tours of duty, and at the age of 24/25 is sentenced to 25 years to life in prison, for defending himself and saving his own life.
He made a stupid decision. He could have just as easily called the police or gotten in his vehicle instead of grabbing his gun. He had an opportunity to leave. The article says he wasn't involved in the original melee. Twenty-five years is a bit excessive but this incident is clearly his fault.
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A completely different case. From the limited number of your posts I've read it seems like you are a bit of a race-baiter and a racist. You're definitely anti-Semitic. As a Jew it's pretty clear.
First of all, I'm not anti-Semitic. I am anti-Zionist. I have no problem with Jews, ...or Khazarians for that matter. My issue is with Zionists.
Secondly, Are you a Jew, or are you a Khazarian?
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First of all, I'm not anti-Semitic. I am anti-Zionist. I have no problem with Jews, ...or Khazarians for that matter. My issue is with Zionists.
Secondly, Are you a Jew, or are you a Khazarian?
You're insane. The whole khazarian stuff is a bunch of nonsense used by anti-Semites like yourself to attack Jewish people.
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He made a stupid decision. He could have just as easily called the police or gotten in his vehicle instead of grabbing his gun. He had an opportunity to leave. The article says he wasn't involved in the original melee. Twenty-five years is a bit excessive but this incident is clearly his fault.
That statement could fit for Zimmerman also
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That statement could fit for Zimmerman also
Depends on whether he was approached by Martin and it was Martin who started the physical confrontation. I wasn't there so I don't know.
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He made a stupid decision. He could have just as easily called the police or gotten in his vehicle instead of grabbing his gun. He had an opportunity to leave. Twenty-five years is a bit excessive but this incident is clearly his fault.
Call a cop? Hahaha Lololololz. Oh Puleaze!!!
He was separated from his friend with whom he had gone to the club. He was a combat vet.
They don't turn and run, leaving men behind. Getting his gun wasn't stupid. It is quite possibly what saved his life.
It was not his fault. He had nothing to do with his attacker. The guy came out from nowhere and RANDOMLY attacked him, knocking him to the ground. In other parts of the country, when Black kids have done that to elderly whites, it is condemned, and people cheer when the elderly white person pulls a gun and shoots his/her attacker. How is this any different? How was he not "standing his ground?" ...because he was flat on his back at the time?
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Depends on whether he was approached by Martin and it was Martin who started the physical confrontation. I wasn't there so I don't know.
Lol all he had to do is stay in his truck and call the cops,so your statement ffits for Zimmerman
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Call a cop? Hahaha Lololololz. Oh Puleaze!!!
He was separated from his friend with whom he had gone to the club. He was a combat vet.
They don't turn and run, leaving men behind. Getting his gun wasn't stupid. It is quite possibly what saved his life.
It was not his fault. He had nothing to do with his attacker. The guy came out from nowhere and RANDOMLY attacked him, knocking him to the ground. In other parts of the country, when Black kids have done that to elderly whites, it is condemned, and people cheer when the elderly white person pulls a gun and shoots his/her attacker. How is this any different? How was he not "standing his ground?" ...because he was flat on his back at the time?
As a soldier he should have remained calm and let the authorities handle the problem. He wasn't in immediate danger until he put himself in danger by returning to the melee. A smart soldier knows when to fight and when not to.
The media downplays attacks on whites by blacks. As you might have noticed there has been a strong push to omit the race of perpetrators and this is done to limit the publics knowledge of the high number of black on white crimes. Which by the way are several times higher than white on black.
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Lol all he had to do is stay in his truck and call the cops,so your statement ffits for Zimmerman
It's not exactly the same situation although I agree that Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck.
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That statement could fit for Zimmerman also
No, it's not the same. The airman made the mistake of not using lethal force, and only wounding his attacker.
This man didn't stalk the man he eventually shot, and wasn't previously instructed not to follow him.
This man didn't prejudicely assume the man he shot was committing a crime.
This was a man who was trying to find his friend so they could leave, when he was RANDOMLY attacked for no other reason than his attacker had a whole lot of anger he wanted to take out on someone... anyone. Even testified to this. This man did nothing to cause this event. Going to his vehicle to get his gun is NOT AT ALL unusual for someone with a cc permit. If you cc everyday, your weapon is a piece of your attire, ...like your shoes. You take off your shoes when you enter someone else's home if they request it. When you leave, you put your shoes back on. Same with cc. If the establishment requires weapons be left outside, you do so, and you retrieve your weapon upon exiting. He did nothing wrong or inappropriate.
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No, it's not the same. The airman made the mistake of not using lethal force, and only wounding his attacker.
This man didn't stalk the man he eventually shot, and wasn't previously instructed not to follow him.
This man didn't prejudicely assume the man he shot was committing a crime.
This was a man who was trying to find his friend so they could leave, when he was RANDOMLY attacked for no other reason than his attacker had a whole lot of anger he wanted to take out on someone... anyone. Even testified to this. This man did nothing to cause this event. Going to his vehicle to get his gun is NOT AT ALL unusual for someone with a cc permit. If you cc everyday, your weapon is a piece of your attire, ...like your shoes. You take off your shoes when you enter someone else's home if they request it. When you leave, you put your shoes back on. Same with cc. If the establishment requires weapons be left outside, you do so, and you retrieve your weapon upon exiting. He did nothing wrong or inappropriate.
I think you might be experiencing a bit of racial bias.
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I think you might be experiencing a bit of racial bias.
LOL
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LOL
Same with you.
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He should never have gotten his weapon...the sentence is ridiculous.
yeah, he could have gotten in his car and left. Grabbing a gun and running into a 50-man fight is asking for trouble. He was entering a situation he already knew was full of violence. Getting punched was a reasonable expectation here.
Then he takes one punch and opens fire. This guy is a stone cold idiot and while he doesn't deserve 25 years, he probably deserves 5 to 8 years, getting out in 3 and 1/2 years for good behavior.
Heck, I would even question if there's proof he really ran to his car to get the gun. My $ would be on him having that piece the entire time, and the extra "I ran to my car to get the gun" is something his lawyer made up to avoid admitting having that gun in a bar.
Either way, he chose to grab a gun and ran into an obvious fight. A reasonable person woudl know he was going to be confronted with violence. He deserves a few years, but not 25, that's madness. You have to charge him with something, or you endorse everyone running to cars for glocks every time there's a fistfight.
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You're insane. The whole khazarian stuff is a bunch of nonsense used by anti-Semites like yourself to attack Jewish people.
Haha, typical Khazar! Always tryin' to lay claim to everything Jewish, ...even a thread about an Isrealite, you try to turn it into a thread about Khazars. Go read "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Khazarian author Arthur Koestler.
Try to stay on topic.
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I think you might be experiencing a bit of racial bias.
Oh I'm looking at the facts in the case.
I can assure that I am not the one experiencing the racial bias in Florida.
Michael Giles on the other hand, may have something different to say about that.
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yeah, he could have gotten in his car and left. Grabbing a gun and running into a 50-man fight is asking for trouble. He was entering a situation he already knew was full of violence. Getting punched was a reasonable expectation here.
Then he takes one punch and opens fire. This guy is a stone cold idiot and while he doesn't deserve 25 years, he probably deserves 5 to 8 years, getting out in 3 and 1/2 years for good behavior.
Heck, I would even question if there's proof he really ran to his car to get the gun. My $ would be on him having that piece the entire time, and the extra "I ran to my car to get the gun" is something his lawyer made up to avoid admitting having that gun in a bar.
Either way, he chose to grab a gun and ran into an obvious fight. A reasonable person woudl know he was going to be confronted with violence. He deserves a few years, but not 25, that's madness. You have to charge him with something, or you endorse everyone running to cars for glocks every time there's a fistfight.
Again this could have been said for Zimmerman
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Haha, typical Khazar! Always tryin' to lay claim to everything Jewish, ...even a thread about an Isrealite, you try to turn it into a thread about Khazars. Go read "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Khazarian author Arthur Koestler.
Try to stay on topic.
That book is a favorite tome of the anti-semite. I try to turn every thread into one about Israelites? Have I ever done this or are you just lumping all Jews together? The problem here is that you believe this garbage. I bet you have this book on your bookshelf right next to The Protocols of The Elders of Zion
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ridiculous sentence
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Going to his vehicle to get his gun is NOT AT ALL unusual for someone with a cc permit. If you cc everyday, your weapon is a piece of your attire, ...like your shoes. You take off your shoes when you enter someone else's home if they request it. When you leave, you put your shoes back on. Same with cc. If the establishment requires weapons be left outside, you do so, and you retrieve your weapon upon exiting. He did nothing wrong or inappropriate.
I've carried for almost 17 years now. It's a tool like car keys, sure. But if there's a FIGHT happening with dozens of drunk strangers trading haymakers in the parking lot, it is no longer a tool. He made the trip to get a gun not because it was an everyday tool, but because he needed leverage in the incident. He was a vet, no doubt on overdrive with the madness of a brawl going on... but the moment he chose to RE-ENTER a drunken brawl WITH A GUN...
I'd like to see his blood alcohol level. I'd like to see viodetaped proof he wasn't carrying that gun the entire time. I'd like to hear if his group was part of the initial fight breaking out. I'd like to see the size of the man that had him fearing for his life, and the angle of shot, and the extent of his injuries.
Dude ran to get a gun to run into a drunken brawl. The minute he walks on the charges, you tell people it's okay for 50 people to run to cars and run back into a fight, shooting the first dude that puts hands on him.
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Again this could have been said for Zimmerman
agreed. And I thought zimm shuold have gotten 8 years. Not 25-life as they wanted.
And I think this dude should get 8 years, with probably half that with good behavior... this is FL, after all.
I think i'm pretty consistent. People that use their guns for elective purposes (IE: THey grab it and run after trouble), then fire it when maybe they really don't have to...), well they need a short prison sentence. Or, everyone will do this. People will chase kids with guns thru bushes. People will run to trucks fo shotguns when their buddy is in a fight at a bar.
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As a soldier he should have remained calm and let the authorities handle the problem. He wasn't in immediate danger until he put himself in danger by returning to the melee. A smart soldier knows when to fight and when not to.
He didn't "return to the melee. Witnesses testified that his attacker Courtney Thrower, broke free from the melee, and randomly attacked him. His attacker himself testified to this fact. He was agitated, full of anger and determined to "take it out on the first person I saw"
The media downplays attacks on whites by blacks. As you might have noticed there has been a strong push to omit the race of perpetrators and this is done to limit the publics knowledge of the high number of black on white crimes. Which by the way are several times higher than white on black.
What the f**k does any of this BS have to do with Mr Giles' case?
The media wasn't on trial, and wasn't sentenced 25 years to life for defending itself, Michael Giles was.
Please explain how this was not "Standing Your Ground?"
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agreed. And I thought zimm shuold have gotten 8 years. Not 25-life as they wanted.
And I think this dude should get 8 years, with probably half that with good behavior... this is FL, after all.
I think i'm pretty consistent. People that use their guns for elective purposes (IE: THey grab it and run after trouble), then fire it when maybe they really don't have to...), well they need a short prison sentence. Or, everyone will do this. People will chase kids with guns thru bushes. People will run to trucks fo shotguns when their buddy is in a fight at a bar.
This seems reasonable. I could sign off in this.
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I've carried for almost 17 years now. It's a tool like car keys, sure. But if there's a FIGHT happening with dozens of drunk strangers trading haymakers in the parking lot, it is no longer a tool. He made the trip to get a gun not because it was an everyday tool, but because he needed leverage in the incident. He was a vet, no doubt on overdrive with the madness of a brawl going on... but the moment he chose to RE-ENTER a drunken brawl WITH A GUN...
I'd like to see his blood alcohol level. I'd like to see viodetaped proof he wasn't carrying that gun the entire time. I'd like to hear if his group was part of the initial fight breaking out. I'd like to see the size of the man that had him fearing for his life, and the angle of shot, and the extent of his injuries.
Dude ran to get a gun to run into a drunken brawl. The minute he walks on the charges, you tell people it's okay for 50 people to run to cars and run back into a fight, shooting the first dude that puts hands on him.
I thought anything goes in hillbilly ville
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In other parts of the country, when Black kids have done that to elderly whites, it is condemned, and people cheer when the elderly white person pulls a gun and shoots his/her attacker. How is this any different? How was he not "standing his ground?" ...because he was flat on his back at the time?
This is where it came from. He could have called the cops when he went to his car. I would have. Getting caught up in a bar fight would have resulted in disciplinary action anyway. If he loved his military career he would have stayed out of it.
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I thought anything goes in hillbilly ville
in the country, you stay on your property, everyone has guns, everyone is usually polite, and they hate outsiders.
in the city... in a college nightclub with the kinda mentality of "hey, why don't 50 of us go outside and start punching each other?" LOL... that's madness. That's idiocy. that's violent idiot behavior.
And leaving this violent situation to get a gun to "rescue your friends" - the same friends that just CHOSE to leave a bar to enter a brawl... that's weak shit right there. Total BS excuse.
He didn't kill a dude but he did shoot/frag 3 people. Gotta give him a few years.
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I've carried for almost 17 years now. It's a tool like car keys, sure. But if there's a FIGHT happening with dozens of drunk strangers trading haymakers in the parking lot, it is no longer a tool. He made the trip to get a gun not because it was an everyday tool, but because he needed leverage in the incident. He was a vet, no doubt on overdrive with the madness of a brawl going on... but the moment he chose to RE-ENTER a drunken brawl WITH A GUN...
I'd like to see his blood alcohol level. I'd like to see viodetaped proof he wasn't carrying that gun the entire time. I'd like to hear if his group was part of the initial fight breaking out. I'd like to see the size of the man that had him fearing for his life, and the angle of shot, and the extent of his injuries.
Dude ran to get a gun to run into a drunken brawl. The minute he walks on the charges, you tell people it's okay for 50 people to run to cars and run back into a fight, shooting the first dude that puts hands on him.
But he didn't re-enter the bar or the brawl. His attacker broke free from the brawl and randomly attacked him.
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But he didn't re-enter the bar or the brawl. His attacker broke free from the brawl and randomly attacked him.
"According to court documents, an argument quickly escalated into a brawl involving 30 to 40 young men.
Giles reportedly was not involved in the melee but, separated from his friends, went outside to the car where he had a gun, for which he had a concealed carry permit. Giles put the weapon in his pants pocket and searched the crowd for his friends."
He went back into the fray.
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yeah, he could have gotten in his car and left. Grabbing a gun and running into a 50-man fight is asking for trouble. He was entering a situation he already knew was full of violence. Getting punched was a reasonable expectation here.
Then he takes one punch and opens fire. This guy is a stone cold idiot and while he doesn't deserve 25 years, he probably deserves 5 to 8 years, getting out in 3 and 1/2 years for good behavior.
Heck, I would even question if there's proof he really ran to his car to get the gun. My $ would be on him having that piece the entire time, and the extra "I ran to my car to get the gun" is something his lawyer made up to avoid admitting having that gun in a bar.
Either way, he chose to grab a gun and ran into an obvious fight. A reasonable person woudl know he was going to be confronted with violence. He deserves a few years, but not 25, that's madness. You have to charge him with something, or you endorse everyone running to cars for glocks every time there's a fistfight.
240, the story at the link below indicates that the attack that prompted the shooting happened about an hour after the brawl:
http://www.vice.com/read/floridas-gun-laws-are-putting-people-in-prison-for-standing-their-ground-10-20-life (http://www.vice.com/read/floridas-gun-laws-are-putting-people-in-prison-for-standing-their-ground-10-20-life)
Also, he was looking for his 2 friends, the only people he knew there. Don't know about you, but if I were in that situation I think it's perfectly reasonable to go looking for my friends (from whom I'd become separated during some chaotic brawl) an hour later without first calling the cops or whatever. According to Giles, he'd gone looking for his friends because they had not shown up at his car where he had been waiting for them for some time.
It's not looking like he just decided to wade into some black (on black) fraternity brawl while waving around his gun.
Also per the article at the following link, his attacker (who was likely black, too, btw) admitted in court to having started multiple fights earlier than night and that his attack on the airman was entirely unprovoked:
http://www.empowermagazine.com/unjust-system-stand-your-ground-second-amendment-rights-failed-michael-giles/ (http://www.empowermagazine.com/unjust-system-stand-your-ground-second-amendment-rights-failed-michael-giles/)
According to the story at this next link, a state witness who was a friend of the attacker alleged that on that night she feared that her violent friend (attacker Courtney Thrower) might seriously injure or kill someone:
http://uptownmagazine.com/2013/09/stand-ground-strikes-the-case-of-michael-giles/2/ (http://uptownmagazine.com/2013/09/stand-ground-strikes-the-case-of-michael-giles/2/)
This story, more than anything, looks to be about how a shitty state law (10 -20 - life) that seems to contradict another shitty state law (SYG) plus some inept legal counsel (that put his parents out to the tune of $125,00-) came together to harshly and inappropriately penalize an upstanding US serviceman (6 years of service during 2 tours in Kuwait and Afghanistan) who is a married father of 3 kids with no history of breaking the law or committing violent acts.
As per the articles in all 3 of the links above, the judge at sentencing admitted that he thought the punishment was far too severe in this case, but his hands were tied by the Florida laws.
BTW, the poor unlucky airman also happens to be the son of military careerist parents who have served a total of over 40 years in the service of our country (combined).
If anyone deserves some sort of clemency from Florida's state governor it's Airman Giles. But Giles is black so we'll see what happens.
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in the country, you stay on your property, everyone has guns, everyone is usually polite, and they hate outsiders.
in the city... in a college nightclub with the kinda mentality of "hey, why don't 50 of us go outside and start punching each other?" LOL... that's madness. That's idiocy. that's violent idiot behavior.
And leaving this violent situation to get a gun to "rescue your friends" - the same friends that just CHOSE to leave a bar to enter a brawl... that's weak shit right there. Total BS excuse.
He didn't kill a dude but he did shoot/frag 3 people. Gotta give him a few years.
Neither he nor his friends were involved in the brawl. He was an innocent bystander.
He didn't shoot 3 people. He shot 1 man, ...his attacker: the one who committed the crime in the first place.
The bullet fragmented on contact. So, is the bullet manufacturer culpable for the manufacture of faulty bullets, ...or should Thrower have been charged as an accomplice in the injuries of the other bystanders he didn't attack and knock to the ground?
In answer to your other question, I don't believe his blood alcohol levels were at issue. It would have been brought out in trial.
240, you're right there in Bizarro land... why not get a copy of the transcript or would you prefer not to willingly make your head explode? ;)
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...
Dude ran to get a gun to run into a drunken brawl. The minute he walks on the charges, you tell people it's okay for 50 people to run to cars and run back into a fight, shooting the first dude that puts hands on him.
If this were the case, I'd likely agree with you. Doesn't appear to be the case, though.
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in the country, you stay on your property, everyone has guns, everyone is usually polite, and they hate outsiders.
in the city... in a college nightclub with the kinda mentality of "hey, why don't 50 of us go outside and start punching each other?" LOL... that's madness. That's idiocy. that's violent idiot behavior.
And leaving this violent situation to get a gun to "rescue your friends" - the same friends that just CHOSE to leave a bar to enter a brawl... that's weak shit right there. Total BS excuse.
He didn't kill a dude but he did shoot/frag 3 people. Gotta give him a few years.
"Chose to leave the bar"? Where did you get this? At one of the articles I've just read, it said that the brawl moved outside because the club (understandably) was kicking out a large number of people. I'll find the article if you want.
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"Chose to leave the bar"? Where did you get this? At one of the articles I've just read, it said that the brawl moved outside because the club (understandably) was kicking out a large number of people. I'll find the article if you want.
The article posted here said he left the bar to retrieve the gun from his car.
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The article posted here said he left the bar to retrieve the gun from his car.
That's not untrue if he waited in his car for X amount of time, though, is it?
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That's not untrue if he waited in his car for X amount of time, though, is it?
Why would he return to club with his gun? He would have had plenty of time to notify the authorities while waiting in his car.
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Why would he return to club with his gun? He would have had plenty of time to notify the authorities while waiting in his car.
Where does it say he returned to the club? He was attacked at the far side of the parking lot (per the article at the first link I posted, I'm pretty sure). His car was in the parking lot.
It's not stated anywhere that I've read, but if it's an hour after the brawl, is it possible that the cops were already there (but maybe left already)? Not sure what Florida cops in that town typically do in response to black frat brawls...
(I'd throw in a couple of not-so-serious jokes about maybe cops didn't come because of some Hebrews-will-be-Hebrews sentiment, but that doesn't seem likely because a couple of the articles have included that gunfire from other folks than the airmen were reported to have occurred at the during the brawl.)
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another DA out of control and a guy getting his life ruined for a bad decision in 5 minuites under bad circumstances
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Where does it say he returned to the club? He was attacked at the far side of the parking lot (per the article at the first link I posted, I'm pretty sure). His car was in the parking lot.
It's not stated anywhere that I've read, but if it's an hour after the brawl, is it possible that the cops were already there (but maybe left already)? Not sure what Florida cops in that town typically do in response to black frat brawls...
(I'd throw in a couple of not-so-serious jokes about maybe cops didn't come because of some Hebrews-will-be-Hebrews sentiment, but that doesn't seem likely because a couple of the articles have included that gunfire from other folks than the airmen were reported to have occurred at the during the brawl.)
He was able to leave the brawl as it was happening and grab the gun from his car because he wasn't involved in the brawl originally. He returned to the brawl and put himself in harms way. He was punched but what did he expect when he inserted himself into something he wasn't a part of from the start. What did he hope to do with his gun when he retrieved it and returned to the brawl? From the time he walked away from the brawl and retrieved his gun he had many alternative options but he choose to enter the brawl with a gun.
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another DA out of control and a guy getting his life ruined for a bad decision in 5 minuites under bad circumstances
I agree. Guy was stupid but this isn't a 25 year mistake.
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he waited at his car "for a while"?
how long did the brawl go for? I mean, 5 or 10 minutes?
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another DA out of control and a guy getting his life ruined for a bad decision in 5 minuites under bad circumstances
QFT!!!
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he waited at his car "for a while"?
how long did the brawl go for? I mean, 5 or 10 minutes?
He waited for over an hour.
He was attacked on the far side of the parking lot by more than one assailant.
His attacker hit him from behind.
According to ballistics, the only bullet they could match to his gun, was a single shot lodged in a wall.
He was sentenced for brandishing and discharging his firearm.
I'd love to hear from that moron who thought it was acceptable to chase after, then fire at a shadow who doesn't answer. I wonder what his take would be on a man in clear danger, who is attacked by multiple attackers, gun fire happening around him, and taken to the ground from behind?
I don't think he should ever have been charged in the first place, ...however, having been charged, his attackers very own testimony should have been sufficient to warrant a not guilty verdict.
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He waited for over an hour.
He was attacked on the far side of the parking lot by more than one assailant.
His attacker hit him from behind.
According to ballistics, the only bullet they could match to his gun, was a single shot lodged in a wall.
He was sentenced for brandishing and discharging his firearm.
I'd love to hear from that moron who thought it was acceptable to chase after, then fire at a shadow who doesn't answer. I wonder what his take would be on a man in clear danger, who is attacked by multiple attackers, gun fire happening around him, and taken to the ground from behind?
I don't think he should ever have been charged in the first place, ...however, having been charged, his attackers very own testimony should have been sufficient to warrant a not guilty verdict.
An hour? No excuses. He could have done many other things during his waiting period but he chose to return to a brawl he wasn't a part of and with a gun.
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An hour? No excuses. He could have done many other things during his waiting period but he chose to return to a brawl he wasn't a part of and with a gun.
You either didn't READ any of the articles posted ...or you have a SEVERE READING COMPREHENSION challenge!
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You either didn't READ any of the articles posted ...or you have a SEVERE READING COMPREHENSION challenge!
I read it and it's pretty clear he had other choices he could have made. He's was a soldier and should have known better.
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I read it and it's pretty clear he had other choices he could have made. He's was a soldier and should have known better.
Read them again.
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He was able to leave the brawl as it was happening and grab the gun from his car because he wasn't involved in the brawl originally. He returned to the brawl and put himself in harms way. He was punched but what did he expect when he inserted himself into something he wasn't a part of from the start. What did he hope to do with his gun when he retrieved it and returned to the brawl? From the time he walked away from the brawl and retrieved his gun he had many alternative options but he choose to enter the brawl with a gun.
He did not go back to the brawl. The brawl occurred about an an hour before he was attacked. (He was attacked at about 2am, FWIW.)
The reason he left the (questionable) security of his car was because he was worried when his 2 friends did not return to the car.
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Read them again.
Did he or did he not go retrieve a weapon from his car without a prior threat to his life? Did he wait in his car for over an hour but did not notify authorities? Did he take his weapon and insert himself into a brawl he was not a part of?
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he waited at his car "for a while"?
how long did the brawl go for? I mean, 5 or 10 minutes?
Not sure but that's a good question. The one article states that he was attacked at 2am which was allegedly an hour after the brawl.
An hour after the brawl started or ended, I don't know. An hour-long brawl sounds a little unlikely to me, but what do I know?
(Except that each of the 2 co-mainevents from the UFC yesterday lasted less than 2 minutes, haha. -- Thank god for free streaming sites!)
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"According to court documents, an argument quickly escalated into a brawl involving 30 to 40 young men.
Giles reportedly was not involved in the melee but, separated from his friends, went outside to the car where he had a gun, for which he had a concealed carry permit. Giles put the weapon in his pants pocket and searched the crowd for his friends."
He waited for over an hour in his car as purported by 24k. He was in his car away from the brawl he was not involved in. An hour is a long time. He didn't need to enter the area of the brawl with his gun. If had happened to be carrying it the whole time we have a different story. He retrieved the weapon and intentionally returned to the area of the brawl.
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Did he or did he not go retrieve a weapon from his car without a prior threat to his life? Did he wait in his car for over an hour but did not notify authorities? Did he take his weapon and insert himself into a brawl he was not a part of?
You know it's likely that he didn't "insert himself into a brawl" but whatever.
And I'm not saying that your suggestions are totally unrealistic but what would he have said to the authorities?
Airman phones police: "My friends have been missing for an hour after that black brawl at Club hole-in-the-wall and I'm worried."
Police: "How old are your friends?"
Airman: "Over 21"
Police: <click>
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The sentence is way too long. Shouldn't be doing anymore than a year, and that's for wounding bystanders. Also, I think he probably already had the gun on him while he was in the club. He had a CC permit, so it was probably already on him. Not that it matters, but this dude did get hosed.
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You know it's likely that he didn't "insert himself into a brawl" but whatever.
And I'm not saying that your suggestions are totally unrealistic but what would he have said to the authorities?
Airman phones police: "My friends have been missing for an hour after that black brawl at Club hole-in-the-wall and I'm worried."
Police: "How old are your friends?"
Airman: "Over 21"
Police: <click>
There are a lot of assumptions there. What is a fact is that he had at least an hour of safety to make many different choices.
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He waited for over an hour in his car as purported by 24k. He was in his car away from the brawl he was not involved in. An hour is a long time. He didn't need to enter the area of the brawl with his gun. If had happened to be carrying it the whole time we have a different story. He retrieved the weapon and intentionally returned to the area of the brawl.
The airman's car was parked in the club's parking lot and that's where he was attacked (after he exited his car with handgun for which he had a valid CC permit).
Brawl began in the club and then spilled out to the front of the club when a large number of folks were kicked out. (And that's allegedly how he became separated from his friends.)
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I read it and it's pretty clear he had other choices he could have made. He's was a soldier and should have known better.
The brawl ballooned to anywhere between 30 to 40 people, and Giles did his best to avoid getting caught in the fray. The prosecution’s own witnesses even recalled that the man who eventually ended up attacking Giles had already instigated many fights that night and was behaving in a violently erratic manner. Not only did several witnesses confirm that Giles was attempting to avoid the fights and mind his own business, but a state witness, who was also a friend of the man who attacked Giles, even alleged that she feared her violent friend may seriously injure or kill someone.
All of a sudden a large crowd rushed Giles and someone struck him to the ground, causing him to fire a shot that hit his attacker in the leg, but did not seriously injure him. Giles was not only trained to fire a handgun by the U.S. military, but he was also trained to recognize threatening situations. He had a legal right to carry and conceal a firearm and defend himself against his aggressor, who later admitted in court that Giles did nothing to provoke the attack, following up with: “I wanted to badly hurt the next person I saw.”
Despite having no criminal record or violent history, Giles was arrested, charged, and subsequently convicted to a mandatory minimum of 25 years in prison. At sentencing, the judge admitted that he thought the punishment was far too severe in this case, but his hands were tied by the Florida laws.
So now Michael Giles, a U.S. military veteran, a son of parents who have both served over 40 years in the military, and an outstanding father, is now fighting for the rest of his life.
Giles completed tours in Iraq and Kuwait and fought bravely for his country, so it shouldn’t be too much to ask that you sign a petition (http://www.change.org/petitions/commute-the-25-year-mandatory-minimum-sentence-for-michael-giles) and fight for him now in his greatest hour of need
http://www.change.org/petitions/commute-the-25-year-mandatory-minimum-sentence-for-michael-giles
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The sentence is way too long. Shouldn't be doing anymore than a year, and that's for wounding bystanders. Also, I think he probably already had the gun on him while he was in the club. He had a CC permit, so it was probably already on him. Not that it matters, but this dude did get hosed.
All of this seems reasonable to me. Even the part about having the gun in the club (unless that place uses metal detectors).
As an Airforce guy who was the child of parents who both served their careers in the service, I wouldn't doubt if if he was probably a little concerned about security issues that might occur at that club.
He got hosed by FLA's laws, for sure.
Compare and contrast Airman Giles' punishment with what happened to NBA player Stephen Jackson who didn't seem to get in much trouble for shooting his gun in the air outside an Indiana strip club after being punched in the face during some sort of brawl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jackson)
On October 6, 2006, there were police reports that Jackson and three other Pacers players were involved in an argument with several patrons at Club Rio, a strip club in Indianapolis. Jackson was punched by one of the patrons and was hit by a car, rolling onto the hood. His injuries were considered minor. Jackson says he fired several gunshots from a 9-mm pistol as an act of self-defense. However, prosecutors later said he fired first. Jackson was charged October 11, 2006 with a felony count of criminal recklessness. He served a seven game suspension at the beginning of the 2007–08 NBA season as a Warrior for his legal problems.
I recall Jax saying something like, "I heard someone say, Dump! Dump!, and where I come from that means to empty your gun quick!" Scary-ass upbringing he must have had, for sure. lol
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There are a lot of assumptions there. What is a fact is that he had at least an hour of safety to make many different choices.
Like what? ...leave his guys behind to get caught up in a brawl. He was the one driving.
He's a military vet . They are trained not to leave a man behind.
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1795543_683425655056649_1017807629_n.jpg)
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There are a lot of assumptions there. What is a fact is that he had at least an hour of safety to make many different choices.
True enough. Concerns for one's friends is what makes me sympathetic, I guess.
I would NEVER just leave if my friends were there and I'd reasonably expect that I could lawfully use my gun to defend myself against some physical attack that I hadn't at all provoked, too.
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Like what? ...leave his guys behind to get caught up in a brawl. He was the one driving.
He's a military vet . They are trained not to leave a man behind.
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1795543_683425655056649_1017807629_n.jpg)
Veterans don't do stupid things like take a gun and go back into a confrontation you weren't a part of.
The brawl ballooned to anywhere between 30 to 40 people, and Giles did his best to avoid getting caught in the fray. The prosecution’s own witnesses even recalled that the man who eventually ended up attacking Giles had already instigated many fights that night and was behaving in a violently erratic manner. Not only did several witnesses confirm that Giles was attempting to avoid the fights and mind his own business, but a state witness, who was also a friend of the man who attacked Giles, even alleged that she feared her violent friend may seriously injure or kill someone.
All of a sudden a large crowd rushed Giles and someone struck him to the ground, causing him to fire a shot that hit his attacker in the leg, but did not seriously injure him. Giles was not only trained to fire a handgun by the U.S. military, but he was also trained to recognize threatening situations. He had a legal right to carry and conceal a firearm and defend himself against his aggressor, who later admitted in court that Giles did nothing to provoke the attack, following up with: “I wanted to badly hurt the next person I saw.”
Despite having no criminal record or violent history, Giles was arrested, charged, and subsequently convicted to a mandatory minimum of 25 years in prison. At sentencing, the judge admitted that he thought the punishment was far too severe in this case, but his hands were tied by the Florida laws.
So now Michael Giles, a U.S. military veteran, a son of parents who have both served over 40 years in the military, and an outstanding father, is now fighting for the rest of his life.
Giles completed tours in Iraq and Kuwait and fought bravely for his country, so it shouldn’t be too much to ask that you sign a petition (http://www.change.org/petitions/commute-the-25-year-mandatory-minimum-sentence-for-michael-giles) and fight for him now in his greatest hour of need
http://www.change.org/petitions/commute-the-25-year-mandatory-minimum-sentence-for-michael-giles
He didn't do his best to avoid the confrontation. Leaving his car with a gun was the furthest thing from doing his best to avoid conflict.
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True enough. Concerns for one's friends is what makes me sympathetic, I guess.
I would NEVER just leave if my friends were there and I'd reasonably expect that I could lawfully use my gun to defend myself against some physical attack that I hadn't at all provoked, too.
He left his friends for over an hour. He basically hid in his car until he grabbed his weapon and got enough nerve to leave his car.
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No doubt he's being railroaded but he has a hand in his own fate.
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Avoiding conflict is not a higher priority than protecting others to a real soldier.
How could it be?
The airman's lawyer must have really sucked.
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He left his friends for over an hour. He basically hid in his car until he grabbed his weapon and got enough nerve to leave his car.
He didn't "leave" his friends. He was separated from them.
Only a child of the father of lies can put forth the deliberately skewed depiction of events you just did.
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Avoiding conflict is not a higher priority than protecting others to a real soldier.
How could it be?
The airman's lawyer must have really sucked.
Avoiding unnecessary conflict is the smart thing to do. Apparently he didn't feel as though he was in that much danger because as far as we know he waited around for over an hour and didn't call the police.
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He left his friends for over an hour. He basically hid in his car until he grabbed his weapon and got enough nerve to leave his car.
Have you seriously never become separated from friends in an unfamiliar place?
(One of these days I'll regale y'all with a seriously funny and salacious story about my 3 work colleague's and me all becoming separated during a wild night in Rio's Copacabana back in 2007.)
Unless some other location has been talked about as a meeting place beforehand, it's perfectly reasonable to think that everyone will come back to the car.
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Avoiding unnecessary conflict is the smart thing to do.
...
Do all soldiers think this? Really?
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He didn't "leave" his friends. He was separated from them.
Only a child of the father of lies can put forth the deliberately skewed depiction of events you just did.
He went to his car and waited for an hour? He didn't call the police or his friends? When he did get knocked down he discharged his weapon into the crowd, right? Bystanders were injured.
I'm not going to address the rest of your statement because it's batshit crazy.
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Do all soldiers think this? Really?
The ones who live do. He was out numbered. Apparently he didn't feel distressed because he wait for an hour doing nothing.
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Avoiding conflict is not a higher priority than protecting others to a real soldier.
Yep
How could it be?
The airman's lawyer must have really sucked.
Fu*king Lawyers!!! They don't give a crap about their clients, they're just a bunch of blood sucking leeches!
His lawyer was looking to suck as much money as he could, ...even after this poor kid was sentenced.
He knew damned well he was screwing this kid, or he wouldn't have been preparing his appeal instead of his case.
Truly sucks when your own military gets screwed over in your courts, ...but we all know who the US military industrial complex really fights for.
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Have you seriously never become separated from friends in an unfamiliar place?
(One of these days I'll regale y'all with a seriously funny and salacious story about my 3 work colleague's and me all becoming separated during a wild night in Rio's Copacabana back in 2007.)
Unless some other location has been talked about as a meeting place beforehand, it's perfectly reasonable to think that everyone will come back to the car.
Yes I have. I called their cell phones.
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The ones who live do. He was out numbered. Apparently he didn't feel distressed because he wait for an hour doing nothing.
Hmmm. I don't think facing potential conflict to protect others is what most soldiers would feel is "unnecessary", but maybe I'm wrong.
I'm no longer a soldier.
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Yep
Fu*king Lawyers!!! They don't give a crap about their clients, they're just a bunch of blood sucking leeches!
His lawyer was looking to suck as much money as he could, ...even after this poor kid was sentenced.
He knew damned well he was screwing this kid, or he wouldn't have been preparing his appeal instead of his case.
Truly sucks when your own military gets screwed over in your courts, ...but we all know who the US military industrial complex really fights for.
Who do they fight for? Are you saying Jews?
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Hmmm. I don't think facing potential conflict to protect others is what most soldiers would feel is "unnecessary", but maybe I'm wrong.
I'm no longer a soldier.
A street fight isn't something a soldier should be involving himself in. That's what the police are for. He could have gone looking for his friends without his gun. He had over an hour. If he believed his friends were in imminent danger he would have reacted sooner.
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Yes I have. I called their cell phones.
That's a good idea, actually. Wonder if this was addressed during the trial?
(When I was in Rio, we didn't have any -- which is made kinda funny since we had plenty of cell phones at the time. -- Actually, though, we were afraid to take our test phones out with us at night because we'd be seriously screwed if we lost 'em.)
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That's a good idea, actually. Wonder if this was addressed during the trial?
(When I was in Rio, we didn't have any -- which is made kinda funny since we had plenty of cell phones at the time. -- Actually, though, we were afraid to take our test phones out with us at night because we'd be seriously screwed if we lost 'em.)
I don't know if it has. I feel for the guy. He is getting screwed big time.
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Who do they fight for? Are you saying Jews?
WTH? lol
I guess I must have missed something...
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WTH? lol
I guess I must have missed something...
She's anti-Semitic. I was carrying over a conversation from another thread.
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Who do they fight for? Are you saying Jews?
If the system fought for the Jews, Giles wouldn't be doing 25 to life.
Zimmerman would be behind bars, and Dunn would not have gotten a hung jury.
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If the system fought for the Jews, Giles wouldn't be doing 25 to life.
Zimmerman would be behind bars, and Dunn would not have gotten a hung jury.
Do you really believe there is an epidemic of whites killing blacks? I'm curious.
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A street fight isn't something a soldier should be involving himself in. That's what the police are for. He could have gone looking for his friends without his gun. He had over an hour. If he believed his friends were in imminent danger he would have reacted sooner.
In his mind he was involving himself minimally. He was worried about his friends but wasn't sure where they were or what they were doing. Only after he'd waited for some time at the car without them appearing did he become concerned enough to leave the car. When he left the car, he went to the edge of the parking lot beside a bush (probably so he'd have a wider field of view) to watch for his friends.
My guess is he was hoping he was just gonna have to bitch 'em out for talking to some ho's instead of making sure he was OK. Be interesting to know if his friends were also in the military or not. (Might not be so relevant, though, I knew plenty of guys in the army who'd frequently act like idiots -- especially after they'd been drinking.)
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She's anti-Semitic. I was carrying over a conversation from another thread.
Seriously? Sure she wasn't just talking about Wiggs? ;D
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She's anti-Semitic. I was carrying over a conversation from another thread.
I have no problem with Jews or Semites. I don't even have a problem with Khazarians (Ashkenazim)
I do not support Zionism which is an oppressive, racist, apartheid political movement, whose purpose is the theft of occupied land, and a racial genocide against an innocent people. The sick rabid dog of Palestine has bitten the hand that once fed and protected it.
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In his mind he was involving himself minimally. He was worried about his friends but wasn't sure where they were or what they were doing. Only after he'd waited for some time at the car without them appearing did he become concerned enough to leave the car. When he left the car, he went to the edge of the parking lot beside a bush (probably so he'd have a wider field of view) to watch for his friends.
My guess is he was hoping he was just gonna have to bitch 'em out for talking to some ho's instead of making sure he was OK. Be interesting to know if his friends were also in the military or not. (Might not be so relevant, though, I knew plenty of guys in the army who'd frequently act like idiots -- especially after they'd been drinking.)
I understand how he felt about his friends. As I said he's being screwed. Should never gotten jail time at all.
Seriously? Sure she wasn't just talking about Wiggs? ;D
They believe the exact same thing. She claims Jews aren't the real Jews but imposters. I'm Jewish by the way.
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I understand how he felt about his friends. As I said he's being screwed. Should never gotten jail time at all.
They believe the exact same thing. She claims Jews aren't the real Jews but imposters. I'm Jewish by the way.
Fair enough.
Ah, crap. Well, let me say this one time only:
Wouldn't StreetSoldier4Jew have been a better moniker?
Sank you, I vill be here all ze week. ;D
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Fair enough.
Ah, crap. Well, let me say this one time only:
Wouldn't StreetSoldier4Jew have been a better moniker?
Sank you, I vill be here all ze week. ;D
Yes it would. Let me give you credit. Reading your posts has broadened my opinion on this subject.
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Fair enough.
Ah, crap. Well, let me say this one time only:
Wouldn't StreetSoldier4Jew have been a better moniker?
Sank you, I vill be here all ze week. ;D
;D
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;D
Read this article. It seems your issues with antisemiticism has strong roots in your community.
According this article, ADL surveys show that “approximately 12 percent of Americans hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views.” However, over 30% of African Americans and Latinos hold such views. Given that they are almost 30% of the population, this suggests that of the 12% of Americans who hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views, 9% or so are African Americans or Latinos. This means, in turn, of the 70% or so of the population that is not African American or Latino, only 3% hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views. Put another way, less than 5% of whites, Asians, and “others” (including Native Americans) combined hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views, compared to over 30% of African Americans and Latinos–or at least that’s the difference in percentages of those willing to express anti-Semitic attitudes to pollsters. Regardless, it seems odd given these numbers that Jews seem especially concerned about mostly phantom anti-Semitism emanating from white evangelical Christians, while being less concerned about anti-Semitism in core Democratic constituencies. But, as Ilya pointed out a few years back, “many studies show that people tend to devalue or ignore any information that makes their political adversaries look good, while overvaluing anything that looks bad.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/
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MY community? HA! I got news for you. As a Black Canadian, I have MORE in common with White Americans
Typical Khazar, ...always trying to claim everything Jewish for themselves. ::) ::)
This thread is about a US Vet who got screwed by a system his family has devoted their lives to, yet you try to turn it into a pity party for the poor misunderstood & maligned AshkeNAZI Zionists. Start your own thread.
I'm only trying to help you. You're the one who believes crazy stuff.
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I have no problem with Jews or Semites. I don't even have a problem with Khazarians (Ashkenazim)
I do not support Zionism which is an oppressive, racist, apartheid political movement, whose purpose is the theft of occupied land, and a racial genocide against an innocent people. The sick rabid dog of Palestine has bitten the hand that once fed and protected it.
Do you carry this view for the Germans who were expelled from East Prussia?
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Read this article. It seems your issues with antisemiticism has strong roots in your community.
According this article, ADL surveys show that “approximately 12 percent of Americans hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views.” However, over 30% of African Americans and Latinos hold such views. Given that they are almost 30% of the population, this suggests that of the 12% of Americans who hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views, 9% or so are African Americans or Latinos. This means, in turn, of the 70% or so of the population that is not African American or Latino, only 3% hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views. Put another way, less than 5% of whites, Asians, and “others” (including Native Americans) combined hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views, compared to over 30% of African Americans and Latinos–or at least that’s the difference in percentages of those willing to express anti-Semitic attitudes to pollsters. Regardless, it seems odd given these numbers that Jews seem especially concerned about mostly phantom anti-Semitism emanating from white evangelical Christians, while being less concerned about anti-Semitism in core Democratic constituencies. But, as Ilya pointed out a few years back, “many studies show that people tend to devalue or ignore any information that makes their political adversaries look good, while overvaluing anything that looks bad.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/
She got it from here. It's a cultural thing.
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If the only thing that happened was he was knocked to the ground, then firing the gun in a crowded room sounds like excessive force to me.
The sentence is ridiculously long though.
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If the only thing that happened was he was knocked to the ground, then firing the gun in a crowded room sounds like excessive force to me.
The sentence is ridiculously long though.
agreed on both counts. trigger happy idiot. all other factors aside, he took one hit/shove and opened fire.
Give him 5-8, he'll be out fast on good behavior. He doesn't need to be carrying a gun if he will fire it that wildly without worry of where those bullets land.
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Do you carry this view for the Germans who were expelled from East Prussia?
Sorry Irongrip, I'm not familiar with the facts surrounding that situation.