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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The Ugly on April 06, 2014, 05:56:30 PM
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I know this was quite some time ago, but this video is absolutely horrific. Any of you guys personally affected by the tragedy?
Great documentary about the fire. First time I've heard any of the survivors speak.
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Not the way I want to go.
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Yeah, Great White concert ...
Beyond horrible. I remember first hearing about this and my stomach literally dropping.
As a dude who came of age in the '80s, Great White represented so much of what means so much to me. I was never a particularly big fan of the band, but their peers of that scene, Ratt, Keel, Dokken, Winger, etc., all were, and continue to be, massive elements of my life. So this impacted me, greatly.
That footage is shockingly "good", if I can use that word. However, it being so good, it's also incredibly difficult to watch. How what starts as a riffing good time can SO QUICKLY become a total nightmare is disturbing.
At just over the six-minute mark you can see someone stagger off the front landing ... on fire.
This will forever go down as one of the greatest tragedies of our era.
:(
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Love this song by them.
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You want to read about a crazy club fire, 1942 Massachusetts, 492 burned to crisp:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoanut_Grove_fire
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I cant imagine being burned to death. Though some of them may have died of smoke inhalation before they were burned. who knows. Sucks either way.
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Love this song by them.
Among my least favorites.
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Guitar player ran back inside to get his favorite guitar and burned with it!!
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Guitar player ran back inside to get his favorite guitar and burned with it!!
Where'd you hear that? Singer says he just headed for the wrong exit. The rest of them exited behind the stage and survived; he seemed to head for the customer exit is all.
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I didn't know anything about this. That image of them all stuck in the doorway was horrendous.
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I didn't know anything about this. That image of them all stuck in the doorway was horrendous.
Worst event in rock n roll history, minus EVH singing on that shitty Cherone album.
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Worst event in rock n roll history, minus EVH singing on that shitty Cherone album.
I think Metallica and Lou Reeds Lulu would make the Top of the list..
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Where'd you hear that? Singer says he just headed for the wrong exit. The rest of them exited behind the stage and survived; he seemed to head for the customer exit is all.
No he was already outside...The exit door was right next to the stage. It was very easy for them to get out. He had 2or more guitars inside he wanted to grab but on the way out the exit was bottlenecked or clogged up already. The band didn't even realize till the next day that he was missing. because all made it out safely first.
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I was at that club weeks before the tragedy .
WoooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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It really is a Tragedy ! A bunch of rockn rollers going to a concert and some not coming back..
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Love this song by them.
It's good, but the original by Ian Hunter and Mick Ronson is best!
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It's good, but the original by Ian Hunter and Mick Ronson is best!
Nice!! Yep the original. Mott the hoople?
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Remember when it happened, pretty sure Dimebag Daryl was killed on stage right around the same time!
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The Iroquois Theatre fire occurred on December 30, 1903, in Chicago, Illinois. It is the deadliest theater fire and the deadliest single-building fire in United States history. At least 605 people died as a result of the fire but not all the deaths were reported, as some of the bodies were removed from the scene.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois_Theater_Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois_Theater_Fire)
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Watching this really drives home just how heroic and brave firefighters and emergency medics are. This kind of situation causes every human instinct you have to tell you to get to safety and worry about yourself yet around the 6 minute mark firefighters are tackling this blaze head on. Its depressing that they receive so little adoration and attention compared to talentless celebrities and corrupt politicians.
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Remember when it happened, pretty sure Dimebag Daryl was killed on stage right around the same time!
Fuck man that really was one of the most fucked up days in history. Some friggin nutcase jump on stage and shot him in the head!! Such a cool guy Dime was!
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Absolutely horrific and unnecessary loss of life! The club owner should be charged with 100 counts of 2nd degree murder!
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The owner of the club apparently gave the band permission to use pyro as part of their performance. If that's true then you can't place blame on the band. The fire alarm goes off but no sprinklers.
The ceiling caught fire so quickly. No sprinkler system in the club at all? That is ridiculous on every level. This was back in 2003 so I'm sure areas of the club allowed smoking. All the more reason to have a sprinkler system.
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This video is horrible when they are stacked up in the doorway and you can see the smoke and flames. Just imagine the people inside burning alive. The worst thing i saw music related was Dimebag Darrell getting murdered onstage in Ohio. Pantera fucking ruled and he was a really nice guy when i met him back in 98. Sad.
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The owner of the club apparently gave the band permission to use pyro as part of their performance. If that's true then you can't place blame on the band. The fire alarm goes off but no sprinklers.
The ceiling caught fire so quickly. No sprinkler system in the club at all? That is ridiculous on every level. This was back in 2003 so I'm sure areas of the club allowed smoking. All the more reason to have a sprinkler system.
The club owner was 100% responsible. I hope he was criminally charged!
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The club owner was 100% responsible. I hope he was criminally charged!
Not that Wikipedia is the most reliable source but the website claims that Great White donated 1 million of their own money to the victims and survivors families.
As far as the owner, who knows what happened to him. That video showing the testimonials of the survivors is gut-wrenching.
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Among my least favorites.
Same. Tired ol' 'rock and roll'.
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The club owner was 100% responsible. I hope he was criminally charged!
He did three years. GW's tour manager, who activated the pyro, did two.
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Same. Tired ol' 'rock and roll'.
So many better songs, the debut is stacked with 'em.
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Not that Wikipedia is the most reliable source but the website claims that Great White donated 1 million of their own money to the victims and survivors families.
As far as the owner, who knows what happened to him. That video showing the testimonials of the survivors is gut-wrenching.
I know everyone wants to find a villain when bad shit happens, but the bouncer who blocked the "band only" exit, costing many their lives, must really be carrying some righteous guilt. His wife also perished, btw.
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Its a horrible accident but unfortunately, someone has to be held accountable whether its the club owner, the band's manager, or that bouncer.
I can't imagine the level of sheer panic with all of those people standing shoulder to shoulder scrambling to exit the building.
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Its a horrible accident but unfortunately, someone has to be held accountable whether its the club owner, the band's manager, or that bouncer.
I can't imagine the level of sheer panic with all of those people standing shoulder to shoulder scrambling to exit the building.
Unimaginable. I'd like to think that some/most we're overcome by smoke first.
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Absolutely horrific and unnecessary loss of life! The club owner should be charged with 100 counts of 2nd degree murder!
Not only the club owners but A lot of people to blame really Back then most clubs would have same situation: no sprinklers, exit doors close to avoid people from sneaking in without paying, overcrowded venues etc and then a big sign on the wall that said 'This place has completed inspection safety"
WoooSSHHHHHHHHHHH
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The first criminal trial was against Great White's tour manager at the time, Daniel Michel Biechele, 29, from Orlando, Florida. This trial was scheduled to start May 1, 2006, but Biechele, against his lawyers' advice,[17] pled guilty to 100 counts of involuntary manslaughter on February 7, 2006, in what he said was an effort to "bring peace, I want this to be over with."[17]
Biechele sentencing
On May 10, 2006, State Prosecutor Randall White asked to sentence Biechele to 10 years in prison, the maximum allowed under the plea bargain, citing the massive loss of life in The Station fire and the need to send a message.[17] Speaking to the public for the first time since the fire, Biechele appeared remorseful during his sentencing. Choking back tears, he made a statement to the court and to the families of the victims.
Biechele's statement to the court
“ For three years, I've wanted to be able to speak to the people that were affected by this tragedy, but I know that there's nothing that I can say or do that will undo what happened that night.
Since the fire, I have wanted to tell the victims and their families how truly sorry I am for what happened that night and the part that I had in it. I never wanted anyone to be hurt in any way. I never imagined that anyone ever would be.
I know how this tragedy has devastated me, but I can only begin to understand what the people who lost loved ones have endured. I don't know that I'll never forgive myself for what happened that night, so I can't expect anybody else to.
I can only pray that they understand that I would do anything to undo what happened that night and give them back their loved ones.
I'm so sorry for what I have done, and I don't want to cause anyone any more pain.
I will never forget that night, and I will never forget the people that were hurt by it.
I am so sorry.
”
Superior Court Judge Francis J. Darigan sentenced Biechele to 15 years in prison, with four to serve and 11 years suspended, plus three years' probation, for his role in the fire.[18] Darigan remarked, "The greatest sentence that can be imposed on you has been imposed on you by yourself." Under this sentence, with good behavior, Biechele would be eligible for parole in September 2007. Judge Darigan deemed Biechele highly unlikely to re-offend, which was among the mitigating factors that led to his decision to impose this sentence.
The sentence drew mixed reactions in the courtroom. Many of the families believed that the punishment was just; others had hoped for a more severe sentence.
Biechele's parole supported by families of victims
On September 4, 2007, some families of the fire's victims expressed their support for Biechele's parole.
Leland Hoisington, whose 28-year-old daughter, Abbie, was killed in the fire, told reporters, "I think they should not even bother with a hearing—just let Biechele out... I just don't find him as guilty of anything." The state parole board received approximately 20 letters, the majority of which expressed their sympathy and support for Biechele, some going as far as to describe him as a "scapegoat" with limited responsibility.
Board chairwoman Lisa Holley told journalists of her surprise at the forgiving attitude of the families, saying, "I think the most overwhelming part of it for me was the depth of forgiveness of many of these families that have sustained such a loss."
Dave Kane and Joanne O'Neill, parents of youngest victim Nicholas O'Neill, released their letter to the board to reporters. "In the period following this tragedy, it was Mr. Biechele, alone, who stood up and admitted responsibility for his part in this horrible event... He apologized to the families of the victims and made no attempt to mitigate his guilt," the letter said.
Others pointed out that Biechele had sent handwritten letters to the families of each of the 100 victims and that he had a work release position in a local charity.
On September 19, 2007, the Rhode Island Parole Board announced that Biechele would be released in March 2008.
Biechele was released from prison on March 19, 2008. As reported by the Associated Press, he did not answer any questions and was quickly whisked away in a waiting car.
Nightclub owners' trial
Following Biechele's trial, the Station's owners, Michael and Jeffrey Derderian, were scheduled to receive separate trials. However, on September 21, 2006, Superior Court Judge Francis J. Darigan announced that the brothers had changed their pleas from "not guilty" to "no contest," thereby avoiding a trial.[19] Michael Derderian received 15 years in prison, with four to serve and 11 years suspended, plus three years' probation—the same sentence as Biechele. Jeffrey Derderian received a 10-year suspended sentence, three years' probation, and 500 hours of community service.
In a letter to the victims' families,[20] Judge Darigan said that a trial "would only serve to further traumatize and victimize not only the loved ones of the deceased and the survivors of this fire, but the general public as well." He added that the difference in the brothers' sentences reflected their respective involvement with the purchase and installation of the flammable foam.
Rhode Island Attorney General Patrick C. Lynch objected strenuously to the plea bargain, saying that both brothers should have received jail time and that Michael Derderian should have received more time than Biechele.[19]
In January 2008, the Parole Board decided to grant Michael Derderian an early release; he was scheduled to be released from prison in September 2009, but was granted his release in June 2009 for good behavior.[21]
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So the band's manager gets a little over a year in jail after an early parole because of involuntary manslaughter? But it isn't clarified as to what he did wrong??
Is it because he asked the club owner to use pyro for the band's performance? Is that what he was found guilty of? Someone posted earlier that the club owner got 3 years? Isn't he to blame moreso for allowing the pyro with no sprinkler system in place?
Confusing. It seems that most of the victims families were forgiving to the situation and chalking this up as a horrible accident.
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The first criminal trial was against Great White's tour manager at the time, Daniel Michel Biechele, 29, from Orlando, Florida. This trial was scheduled to start May 1, 2006, but Biechele, against his lawyers' advice,[17] pled guilty to 100 counts of involuntary manslaughter on February 7, 2006, in what he said was an effort to "bring peace, I want this to be over with."[17]
Biechele sentencing
On May 10, 2006, State Prosecutor Randall White asked to sentence Biechele to 10 years in prison, the maximum allowed under the plea bargain, citing the massive loss of life in The Station fire and the need to send a message.[17] Speaking to the public for the first time since the fire, Biechele appeared remorseful during his sentencing. Choking back tears, he made a statement to the court and to the families of the victims.
Biechele's statement to the court
“ For three years, I've wanted to be able to speak to the people that were affected by this tragedy, but I know that there's nothing that I can say or do that will undo what happened that night.
Since the fire, I have wanted to tell the victims and their families how truly sorry I am for what happened that night and the part that I had in it. I never wanted anyone to be hurt in any way. I never imagined that anyone ever would be.
I know how this tragedy has devastated me, but I can only begin to understand what the people who lost loved ones have endured. I don't know that I'll never forgive myself for what happened that night, so I can't expect anybody else to.
I can only pray that they understand that I would do anything to undo what happened that night and give them back their loved ones.
I'm so sorry for what I have done, and I don't want to cause anyone any more pain.
I will never forget that night, and I will never forget the people that were hurt by it.
I am so sorry.
”
Superior Court Judge Francis J. Darigan sentenced Biechele to 15 years in prison, with four to serve and 11 years suspended, plus three years' probation, for his role in the fire.[18] Darigan remarked, "The greatest sentence that can be imposed on you has been imposed on you by yourself." Under this sentence, with good behavior, Biechele would be eligible for parole in September 2007. Judge Darigan deemed Biechele highly unlikely to re-offend, which was among the mitigating factors that led to his decision to impose this sentence.
The sentence drew mixed reactions in the courtroom. Many of the families believed that the punishment was just; others had hoped for a more severe sentence.
Biechele's parole supported by families of victims
On September 4, 2007, some families of the fire's victims expressed their support for Biechele's parole.
Leland Hoisington, whose 28-year-old daughter, Abbie, was killed in the fire, told reporters, "I think they should not even bother with a hearing—just let Biechele out... I just don't find him as guilty of anything." The state parole board received approximately 20 letters, the majority of which expressed their sympathy and support for Biechele, some going as far as to describe him as a "scapegoat" with limited responsibility.
Board chairwoman Lisa Holley told journalists of her surprise at the forgiving attitude of the families, saying, "I think the most overwhelming part of it for me was the depth of forgiveness of many of these families that have sustained such a loss."
Dave Kane and Joanne O'Neill, parents of youngest victim Nicholas O'Neill, released their letter to the board to reporters. "In the period following this tragedy, it was Mr. Biechele, alone, who stood up and admitted responsibility for his part in this horrible event... He apologized to the families of the victims and made no attempt to mitigate his guilt," the letter said.
Others pointed out that Biechele had sent handwritten letters to the families of each of the 100 victims and that he had a work release position in a local charity.
On September 19, 2007, the Rhode Island Parole Board announced that Biechele would be released in March 2008.
Biechele was released from prison on March 19, 2008. As reported by the Associated Press, he did not answer any questions and was quickly whisked away in a waiting car.
Nightclub owners' trial
Following Biechele's trial, the Station's owners, Michael and Jeffrey Derderian, were scheduled to receive separate trials. However, on September 21, 2006, Superior Court Judge Francis J. Darigan announced that the brothers had changed their pleas from "not guilty" to "no contest," thereby avoiding a trial.[19] Michael Derderian received 15 years in prison, with four to serve and 11 years suspended, plus three years' probation—the same sentence as Biechele. Jeffrey Derderian received a 10-year suspended sentence, three years' probation, and 500 hours of community service.
In a letter to the victims' families,[20] Judge Darigan said that a trial "would only serve to further traumatize and victimize not only the loved ones of the deceased and the survivors of this fire, but the general public as well." He added that the difference in the brothers' sentences reflected their respective involvement with the purchase and installation of the flammable foam.
Rhode Island Attorney General Patrick C. Lynch objected strenuously to the plea bargain, saying that both brothers should have received jail time and that Michael Derderian should have received more time than Biechele.[19]
In January 2008, the Parole Board decided to grant Michael Derderian an early release; he was scheduled to be released from prison in September 2009, but was granted his release in June 2009 for good behavior.[21]
I'm sympathetic toward the tour manager. He was the only one to really stand up and take responsibility.
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So the band's manager gets a little over a year in jail after an early parole because of involuntary manslaughter? But it isn't clarified as to what he did wrong??
Is it because he asked the club owner to use pyro for the band's performance? Is that what he was found guilty of? Someone posted earlier that the club owner got 3 years? Isn't he to blame moreso for allowing the pyro with no sprinkler system in place?
Confusing. It seems that the victim's families were forgiving to the situation and chalking this up as a horrible accident.
Club owner installed highly flammable acoustic foam and mislead fire inspectors, though I don't know how he got official clearance with no sprinklers. Perhaps they were installed and just not functional. I can only assume he had to give the band an ok on using pyro.
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I'm sympathetic toward the tour manager. He was the only one to really stand up and take responsibility.
Me too. Even families of the victims wrote to the parole board asking he be paroled.
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Club owner installed highly flammable acoustic foam and mislead fire inspectors, though I don't know how he got official clearance with no sprinklers. Perhaps they were installed and just not functional. I can only assume he had to give the band an ok on using pyro.
This!!!!
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The bouncer that wouldn't let people out of the door reserved for the band, while the fucking roof was on fire, cost a fair few people their lives..
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The bouncer that wouldn't let people out of the door reserved for the band, while the fucking roof was on fire, cost a fair few people their lives..
Lots of YouTube comments crucifying the dude, some by survivors. In all fairness, I'd hope he just didn't realize the severity at the time. However, he did this to several people, and that place was engulfed within minutes, so it is troublesome. Seems he should have realized much sooner.
As I'd mentioned, his wife did die in the fire as well, so his life has probably been miserable since.
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Lots of YouTube comments crucifying the dude, some by survivors. In all fairness, I'd hope he just didn't realize the severity at the time. However, he did this to several people, and that place was engulfed within minutes, so it is troublesome. Seems he should have realized much sooner.
As I'd mentioned, his wife did die in the fire as well, so his life has probably been miserable since.
I didn't know about his wife. Still, you'd like to think he could make an instant judgement , override his orders, and start letting them out. It contributed to that bottleneck we see on the vid.
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I didn't know about his wife. Still, you'd like to think he could make an instant judgement , overall his orders, and start letting them out. It contributed to that bottleneck we see on the vid.
I know, he fucked up HUGE.
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The whole idea of using pyro in a small club baffled me from the get-go. I've been to dozens and dozens of shows over the years and I don't ever remember seeing it, not until this video. Only in the big arenas.
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Worst event in rock n roll history, minus EVH singing on that shitty Cherone album.
HOLY SHIT that is awful, isn't it? Edward-o needs to forever put a sock in it.
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Watching this really drives home just how heroic and brave firefighters and emergency medics are. This kind of situation causes every human instinct you have to tell you to get to safety and worry about yourself yet around the 6 minute mark firefighters are tackling this blaze head on. Its depressing that they receive so little adoration and attention compared to talentless celebrities and corrupt politicians.
Yeah, and Bieber's buying million-dollar cars. ::)
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People make mistakes ... and some of them are big ones.
However, whoever thinks it's EVER a good idea to use pyro in a small club hasn't thought things through. I mean, look at those sparkler things blazing away behind the band! Flames and sparks hitting shit all over the place. It would have been amazing had something NOT been set on fire.
Bloody 'ell.
Check out the camera guy's footage when he walks around to the side door. That smoke inside the immediate hallway is THICK and extremely menacing. How long can a person inhale that toxic/heated soup before it's lights out, ya know?! NOT LONG.
What a total disaster. Just some folks going out for a night of rocking and ... this.
:(
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Club owner installed highly flammable acoustic foam and mislead fire inspectors, though I don't know how he got official clearance with no sprinklers. Perhaps they were installed and just not functional. I can only assume he had to give the band an ok on using pyro.
You'll be surprised how many clubs still do,
WoooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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The doc with the survivors is gut-wrenching. Like I say, I come from that world (GIGANTIC music/rock fan), and that something so horrific can be equated with the world I love is very upsetting.
Even just watching the video footage, I feel extremely troubled. Like, This shouldn't be happening.
My heartfelt feelings for all those lost and the survivors (and their families, of course).
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I felt the same way watching the footage of the fire and the 7 part documentary. I certainly hope no one uses pyro in small clubs with no sprinkler systems, fire extinguishers etc in 2014 in the U.S.
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You'll be surprised how many clubs still do,
WoooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Which implicates the fire department as well. Hope this is not the case.