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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Thin Lizzy on May 06, 2014, 06:55:21 AM
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Let's say you did all the classic upper body compound movements: bench, overhead presses and barbell rows; but, you did no single joint arm movements viz. curls and extensions.
Would your arms look much different?
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your arms would probably look like norb schemansky's. he trained mostly on the olympic lifts and only did assistant work to compliment said lifts.
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Pressing hits the triceps and rows hit the biceps it goes without saying. I know some guys that do only body weight exercises and their arms look amazing. Look at gymnast too. Various pull ups, push ups, dips and body weight reverse rows work the bicep and tricep hard.
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I think body type might influence results. I'm tall with really long arms. Bent rows pump my biceps just like curls.
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yes they will look different but only big and not that separated(???)
want big arms,have to hit them directly,not those press for triceps,rows for biceps etc,yes they also get some work but only to certain degree
i never did direct arms before for 3 years my arms maybe grew like 2-3 inches
since i added direct arms work it grew another 1 inch in 2-3 months
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not this shit again
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Let's say you did all the classic upper body compound movements: bench, overhead presses and barbell rows; but, you did no single joint arm movements viz. curls and extensions.
Would your arms look much different?
yes
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Pressing hits the triceps and rows hit the biceps it goes without saying. I know some guys that do only body weight exercises and their arms look amazing. Look at gymnast too. Various pull ups, push ups, dips and body weight reverse rows work the bicep and tricep hard.
Agreed but i remember some years ago asking Bill Pearl this question on the phone. Told him i just did undergrip chins and he said OK but do you have a Preacher Bench? I didnīt at the time but he did say you should do a direct Bicep exercise. it really depends what your Goal is and Genetics as mentioned, on the other Hand there was a guy on Iron Age who posted Videos and did chins,weighted Dips...Basic stuff and he was big and muscular and had very good arms. Canīt remember his Name but he had a Tattoo on his back "Bald and sexy" for which he apoligised for ...LOL he seemed a good Guy.
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If your genetics are predisposed to large arm muscle mass, than just about any thing, in the form of lifting, can give muscle gains. If you have average genetics(as most guys do) you will more than likely need direct, single joint, arm work. In either case, your arms would look different. And with BB'ing, the image is all that more important.
Some exceptions might be close curl grip chins (actually touching the chin each rep) , close grip BB rows to the gut and up-right rows call on the biceps strongly. And these would not be called direct bicep work. Close grip benches and dips, with the elbow kept close to the body can be prime triceps exercises are also not direct tricep exercises.
On both of these examples, the wider the grip (or elbows out), the less the bicep or triceps becomes involve, yet still a part of the overall exercise.Still a fine mass builder for the upper body. Even most guys with those average genetics can increase arm size quite well without having to do endless sets of curls or tricep extensions.
Personal view (for what it's worth) for stubborn arms: the BB curl, with a slight cheat. Dips, with the elbows held to the side and the body (best you can) kept in a straight up (180 degrees) position, These should be the only arm work in a program. 3 to 4 sets of 6-9 reps. Give it a couple weeks of breaking in time.
Good Luck.
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Actually full range of motion reverse grip pull ups work the biceps from complete extension to complete flex. Since they give out before your lats it's a great bicep exercise hitting the lats too from a kinesiology stand point. What's hitting your bicep harder? Cheat curls with 120lbs or reverse grip pull ups with your 200lbs body weight? I realize there are no complete answers in the rhetorical question I put forth.
In bodybuilding we have a body part mentality. The body in motion or athletics doesn't work in isolated body parts. If you are training your body to perform better at an athletic pursuit doing 3 or 4 different bicep exercises as part of a typical bodybuilding program is the wrong way to go about it.
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Actually full range of motion reverse grip pull ups work the biceps from complete extension to complete flex. Since they give out before your lats it's a great bicep exercise hitting the lats too from a kinesiology stand point. What's hitting your bicep harder? Cheat curls with 120lbs or reverse grip pull ups with your 200lbs body weight? I realize there are complete answers in the rhetorical question I put forth.
In bodybuilding we have a body part mentality. The body in motion or athletics doesn't work in isolated body parts. If you are training your body to perform better at an athletic pursuit doing 3 or 4 different bicep exercises as part of a typical bodybuilding program is the wrong way to go about it.
100% correct. I do also feel however a reverse grip hits my lats better too. I loved reverse Grip Hammer pulldowns ...wish i could still do them :'(
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I've found that refraining from strap use recruits more bicipital and brachial involvement on many of the movements mentioned above. That finding correlates with what I've read about gripping action activating biceps to a greater degree. I've also read that gripping/squeezing the bar harder yields a slight bump in strength during curling movements.
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I've found that refraining from strap use recruits more bicipital and brachial involvement on many of the movements mentioned above. That finding correlates with what I've read about gripping action activating biceps to a greater degree. I've also read that gripping/squeezing the bar harder yields a slight bump in strength during curling movements.
Mentzer said that he grew his massive forearms from gripping the handles..
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Placing a rubber sleeve over the bar (making the bar a bit thicker) and than gripping/squeezing those tends to also work the grip/forearms better. Guy's have also used kitchen sponges, in the palms of the hands, for improved gripping. If having a thicker bar, might want to use that. Not really sold on the squeeze or non strap idea for increased bicep size, but if it works for you...than great. One thing that does seem to work for some is bicep stretches. Can do those free hand (some martial arts and gymnastics give good examples), handing from a chinning bar or even DL's and heavy shrugs will add a bicep stretch in a exercise.
Doing reverse BB curls, with the thumbs on top (over grip), can be effective for grip and forearm development. The bonus is that it is a excellent bicep movement, which can give a fuller look to those biceps & forearms.
Also some men will just cradle the bar/DB, allowing it to settle in the palms, when curling. No hard gripping, just a slight curling up of the fingers. Said they had a better feel on the biceps, rather than the forearms (hard gripping).
Good Luck
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I started curling with a lose grip wrists back about a year ago seems to have made all the difference in the world. . For my progress in the biceps. If I dont have my wrist back with a loae grip its almost impossible to get my biceps pumped.. forearms take over
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Mentzer said that he grew his massive forearms from gripping the handles..
Placing a rubber sleeve over the bar (making the bar a bit thicker) and than gripping/squeezing those tends to also work the grip/forearms better. Guy's have also used kitchen sponges, in the palms of the hands, for improved gripping. If having a thicker bar, might want to use that. Not really sold on the squeeze or non strap idea for increased bicep size, but if it works for you...than great. One thing that does seem to work for some is bicep stretches. Can do those free hand (some martial arts and gymnastics give good examples), handing from a chinning bar or even DL's and heavy shrugs will add a bicep stretch in a exercise.
Doing reverse BB curls, with the thumbs on top (over grip), can be effective for grip and forearm development. The bonus is that it is a excellent bicep movement, which can give a fuller look to those biceps & forearms.
Also some men will just cradle the bar/DB, allowing it to settle in the palms, when curling. No hard gripping, just a slight curling up of the fingers. Said they had a better feel on the biceps, rather than the forearms (hard gripping).
Good Luck
It makes sense to me. Fatter grips allow less finger leverage requiring greater effort to hold on. I fashioned a wrist-roller from 3-in. PVC pipe and can only use considerably less weight than with the thinner commercial brands.
Conversely, I try to use a lighter grip for pressing movements - even a false grip when feasible. An old-timer once told me that a looser grip provides a bit more pressing power. It could all be bullshit, with the difference I feel being a placebo effect. But, it's what I've been doing, and it's been working for me, so...
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When using a false grip (thumb over the bar) you'er approaching a push-press, where the weight is positioned on the heel of the palms. A push-press will generate more power in pressing because the bar is in a direct line with the wrist and forearm. With a regular grip (thumbs under the bar, fingers above) the bar is held off center of a in line press, with more stress on the wrist and less power generated.
Heavy overhead presser's and bencher's use the push-press grip quite often. A weighted bar is more or less "set" on the heels of the hands, though most lifters will use a rosin bag, stickum or chalk (lifting gyms have chalk boxes or use chalk blocks). Even with all this, it still may be a good idea to have spotter when into serious benching. Overhead pressing, not that much of a worry.
Just my view, but 2 of the best shoulder exercises are push-presses and jerk presses, both done in a power rack/power station, "A" frame, etc, Try not doing either of these in a Smith Machine, many disadvantages in the long run. The total shoulder girdle (from front, side and back) can take on a whole higher lever of muscular thickness and raw power. Even the traps get involved. I have also done jerk presses from behind the neck, an exercise not for everyone.....but tend to work well for me.
Good Luck.