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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Neptune100 on May 31, 2014, 09:20:36 PM
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Just curious...anyone
stupid bold enough to do this like Arnold/Franco? Ha most gyms would throw you out I imagine. The concentration must be very intense, which may add to the mind/muscle contraction. You also can't go too heavy on this and screw up your back. Just wanted to hear experiences with it.
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Just curious...anyone stupid bold enough to do this like Arnold/Franco? Ha most gyms would throw you out I imagine. The concentration must be very intense, which may add to the mind/muscle contraction. You also can't go too heavy on this and screw up your back. Just wanted to hear experiences with it.
Why not just do it without the bench?
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I always understood Arnold did this because he lowered the weight past the level of his feet. But I have seen people standing on benches to do it and the weights don't even reach their feet. Douche bags
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I always understood Arnold did this because he lowered the weight past the level of his feet. But I have seen people standing on benches to do it and the weights don't even reach their feet. Douche bags
Exactly, it's to drop past bench. We used to use a fairy good amount weight. And no, never seen anyone screw up their backs. Not that it can't happen, it's just unlikely.
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Exactly, it's to drop past bench. We used to use a fairy good amount weight. And no, never seen anyone screw up their backs. Not that it can't happen, it's just unlikely.
Coach, you like this method? You mentioned you used to do it, is there a particular reason you stopped?
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I think it is retarded. All due respect to Coach because I like and respect his opinion.
1) there's better rowing movements to get a stretch
2) stand on a bench and focus on balance to get a small stretch or be more stable, lift more weight (due to better neural drive) and use 10kg plates rather than the big wheels and get the best of both worlds if you really think stretching out the humerus is the way to go on a bent over row.
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arnold had shitty form on most of his back exercises, how he didn't snap anything is beyond me
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I think it's an exercise that's not worth the hassle and risk when you can achieve the same just using regular rows.
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I used to do it, because Arnold. Haven't in 15 years.
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I used to do it, because Arnold. Haven't in 15 years.
X 2 ......found no difference in results/lack of results so stopped.
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Total waste of time. People used to do stiff legged Deadlifts like this too... talk about dangerous for your lower back.
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Total waste of time. People used to do stiff legged Deadlifts like this too... talk about dangerous for your lower back.
I don't know that it is any more dangerous for your lower back, it's just inherently unstable. If you are doing SLDL's right, with a proper hip-hinge, and not stupid with the weight, it should be fine up there.
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I don't know that it is any more dangerous for your lower back, it's just inherently unstable. If you are doing SLDL's right, with a proper hip-hinge, and not stupid with the weight, it should be fine up there.
I still do stiff-leggeds on a platform or bench,and I keep my knees locked throughout the movement.
45 pound plates = no stretch and even if smaller plates are used they hit the floor before you get a decent stretch.
These days I just go light for a stretch since my back is completely fucked at times.
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I just realized something,we`re talking about training/bodybuilding related stuff.
Who woulda` thunk it ? :D
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I just realized something,we`re talking about training/bodybuilding related stuff.
Who woulda` thunk it ? :D
Must be a full moon.
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Must be a full moon.
No shit,kinda` scary isn`t it? ;D
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Exactly, it's to drop past bench. We used to use a fairy good amount weight. And no, never seen anyone screw up their backs. Not that it can't happen, it's just unlikely.
Are you just setting out to deliberately fuck up peoples backs?
That ridiculous video last week of people sitting down and rolling their spines about whilst squatting , now this bullshit.
Bending over at the waist alone puts a hell of a lot of strain on the low back due to just the weight of your head, now to add an extreme extension and fuck around lifting weights whilst in full extension is idiotic in the extreme.
I seriously wonder if you are just trolling here.
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I don't know that it is any more dangerous for your lower back, it's just inherently unstable. If you are doing SLDL's right, with a proper hip-hinge, and not stupid with the weight, it should be fine up there.
yes good post.. i think People do use too much weight on These. I always used Dumbbells. These Days i stick to Bent legged Deadlifts.
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;)
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It works pretty well as a rack if you don't have a power cage handy....I figured that was the reason they'd do it
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I think part of the concept of doing rows on a bench is to be in total control of the movement and to be really alert focused on the task at hand. More so quality repetitions over quantity/weight. Everybody sleep walks through sets and movements but you have to been in the zone doing rows on a bench or you're gonna be hurting. I imagine even with lesser weight it is still takes alot of energy to do it. I haven't done it this way yet, lord knows there are a million different views on barbell rowing technique to begin with and I've been doing barbell rows for 10 years and I still tweak my technique.
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It works pretty well as a rack if you don't have a power cage handy....I figured that was the reason they'd do it
Right, like there's anybody any more that doesn't have access to a cage... ::)
:D
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check out this guy... I wonīt say These balls donīt have uses, such as stabilizing a knee after surgery but Fuck sake not with Barbell Rows.
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Including DB laterals, the BB row is the exercise that is most incorrectly performed. People use too much weight, their form is shit and they never develop any thickness at all. The upper body should never move downward to meet the weight as you get tired... I see that a lot too.
I use the 25lb plates standing on the floor. No need to get a big stretch at the bottom of the movement... all that does it put your low back at risk.
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Coach, you like this method? You mentioned you used to do it, is there a particular reason you stopped?
Better options.
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Are you just setting out to deliberately fuck up peoples backs?
That ridiculous video last week of people sitting down and rolling their spines about whilst squatting , now this bullshit.
Bending over at the waist alone puts a hell of a lot of strain on the low back due to just the weight of your head, now to add an extreme extension and fuck around lifting weights whilst in full extension is idiotic in the extreme.
I seriously wonder if you are just trolling here.
I don't do these with clients. I prefer other rows. Don't go there with the box squat, you were owned to oblivion on this last week. If people actually knew how to train you can do almost any exercise without fucking yourself up. Most are so used to training on machines they know of know other way. Train mostly on machines then go try and do the same movement on free weights....that's what will fuck you up.
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I don't do these with clients. I prefer other rows. Don't go there with the box squat, you were owned to oblivion on this last week. If people actually knew how to train you can do almost any exercise without fucking yourself up. Most are so used to training on machines they know of know other way. Train mostly on machines then go try and do the same movement on free weights....that's what will fuck you up.
If I recall the thread correctly others commented negatively on your approach, it wasnt just me who thought you were being reckless in your application.
As for the rest of your post you now seem to be of the opinion that box rows are not all that great.
Trolling?
Yep, you probably were.
Thing is trolling when giving out advice as a trainer is dumb to say the least.
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If I recall the thread correctly others commented negatively on your approach, it wasnt just me who thought you were being reckless in your application.
As for the rest of your post you now seem to be of the opinion that box rows are not all that great.
Trolling?
Yep, you probably were.
Thing is trolling when giving out advice as a trainer is dumb to say the least.
People commenting on a lift they know NOTHING about is hardly worth paying attention to but I did. There were also several others that posted in the thread that know how to lift and are familiar with that lift as well as understanding the benefits of the lift. You see something (as others did) made a negative comment without even so much as knowing how to do, the mechanics nor the benefits. We've been going these for almost 8 years without an incident. Here, you might want to educate yourself because your knowledge is obviously limited..
http://www.westside-barbell.com/index.php/the-westside-barbell-university/articles-by-louie-simmons/articles-published-in-2005/378-box-squatting-benefits
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I don't do these with clients. I prefer other rows. Don't go there with the box squat, you were owned to oblivion on this last week. If people actually knew how to train you can do almost any exercise without fucking yourself up. Most are so used to training on machines they know of know other way. Train mostly on machines then go try and do the same movement on free weights....that's what will fuck you up.
coach i think your a bright guy but I must ask what roll do box squats play in the mastery of a young american football player or track athlete? Attaining a high level in football requires a strong neck girdle, strong delta, triceps, and posterior chain. At the end of the day these kids are athletes not powerlifters, and all that matters is that the strength is developed in the muscles...whether this was achieved with a leg press, belt squat, front squat, back squat, or box squat is irrelevant.
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coach i think your a bright guy but I must ask what roll do box squats play in the mastery of a young american football player or track athlete? Attaining a high level in football requires a strong neck girdle, strong delta, triceps, and posterior chain. At the end of the day these kids are athletes not powerlifters, and all that matters is that the strength is developed in the muscles...whether this was achieved with a leg press, belt squat, front squat, back squat, or box squat is irrelevant.
Maybe I'm lost here. This post made no sense.
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Maybe I'm lost here. This post made no sense.
English is clearly his third language.
Back to training, I don't like box squats because I think they are too dangerous. So I would always opt for squatting to pins.
What do you see as the advantages to box squatting vs squatting to pins? Possibily easier to disengage the hips, but if you do it right (wide stance, external rotation, knees not travelling too far over knees) you'll get the glute activation you're looking for.
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English is clearly his third language.
Back to training, I don't like box squats because I think they are too dangerous. So I would always opt for squatting to pins.
What do you see as the advantages to box squatting vs squatting to pins? Possibily easier to disengage the hips, but if you do it right (wide stance, external rotation, knees not travelling too far over knees) you'll get the glute activation you're looking for.
For our purposes, the box squat is ideal. We can ensure depth, going with a wide stance hits the entire posterior chain as long as the lifter keeps his/her feet forward and sitting you really never disengage hips, with a load, especially a heavy load, it's really impossible. When we teach it, we always cue to the mid-section tight as well as inhaling through the nose on the eccentric and exhaling on the concentric. Wide stance, you never see an athlete stand with a narrow stance, it's an athletic stance, knees bent, feet wide.
With wide receivers, RB's, Tight ends or general skills positions, we use pins once in a while but not as a general rule or staple in our main lifts.
Back the sitting part of the lift. Even with our general clientele, we do a ton of posterior chain work to prevent any low back or knee injuries on the main lifts. On an average, we hit posterior chain at least three days per week. Remember what the conjugate system consists of....the supplemental lifts reinforce the main lifts. In the first video that I posted of Louie teaching the box squat, he said he brought a tight end down from a 5.1 40 to a 4.7 without even running him. I can attest to that with my own athletes, the difference is, I run my athletes. Now, I could careless about an athletes 40 time, I'm more interested in their 10 yard splits and first steps.
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Back is the one muscle group for which machines can be superior to free weights.
The pull up is great exercise, but you're essentially stuck with one weight, your bodyweight. The lat pull down machine offers more versatility and control.
With barbell rows, range of motion is limited by the bar. Plus, the aforementioned lower back risks. Low cable rows with a rope handle pretty much solves those problems.
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;)
That must have been a light back day.
(http://builtreport.com/schwarzenegger/arnold_rows/arnold_rows_004.jpg)
He was a total mad man!
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I like to position myself upon the highest apparatus in the gym when performing any movement.
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I like to position myself upon the highest apparatus in the gym when performing any movement.
;D
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Barbell rows off a bench are stupid IMHO.
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Barbell rows off a bench are stupid IMHO.
leaning that far over you may as well do chins or lat pulldowns
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Kids do box squats to cut the rom and ego lift too much weight, end of story.
Worthless lift for raw plers, bbers and anyone not squatting a mile wide out of a mono in multiply
I wish I'd never done the lift and kept up with full high bar Oly squats, paused or otherwise. Chances are my back would be in much better shape today
Bench rows with a rounded back like in that Franco photo are beyond retarded
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^^^^ Well there you have it, "end of story". lol
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Are you just setting out to deliberately fuck up peoples backs?
That ridiculous video last week of people sitting down and rolling their spines about whilst squatting , now this bullshit.
Bending over at the waist alone puts a hell of a lot of strain on the low back due to just the weight of your head, now to add an extreme extension and fuck around lifting weights whilst in full extension is idiotic in the extreme.
I seriously wonder if you are just trolling here.
"coach" left after Obama won re-election. He gave his account away. The difference in writing styles is pretty apparent.
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"coach" left after Obama won re-election. He gave his account away. The difference in writing styles is pretty apparent.
You've been slipping lately. Your posts have been making about as much sense as flintstones posts.
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Barbell rows off a bench are stupid IMHO.
The thing is, someone as intelligent and as thoughtful/inventive when it came to training, Arnold Schwarzenegger, believed in barbell rows of off benches. He had basically all of the same options as we had today but he still used these as his primary row(as far as I'm aware of). Even if not, he still used them frequently. If someone like Arnold came to the conclusion this rowing movement/technique was a superior form of the row, then why aren't more people doing them today.
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That must have been a light back day.
(http://builtreport.com/schwarzenegger/arnold_rows/arnold_rows_004.jpg)
He was a total mad man!
JUST FOR PICS IN THE MAGS......I TALKED WITH JERRY BRAINUM.......HE TOLD ME ARNOLD TRAINED WITH MODERATE POUNDAGE......FRANCO TRAINED HEAVY BUT ARNOLD WAS MORE OF A FEEL KIND OF GUY.
185 FOR BB ROWS AND 50 POUNDS FOR DB CURLS.
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The thing is, someone as intelligent and as thoughtful/inventive when it came to training, Arnold Schwarzenegger, believed in barbell rows of off benches. He had basically all of the same options as we had today but he still used these as his primary row(as far as I'm aware of). Even if not, he still used them frequently. If someone like Arnold came to the conclusion this rowing movement/technique was a superior form of the row, then why aren't more people doing them today.
This what is what I seriously believe and I know I'm going to get railed for this. I believe most people now a days are lazy and find it easier to train more on machines than with free weight. It takes almost no effort to stick a pin in a selecorized machine and less effort to move the weight up, down, back and forth. Don't get me wrong , they had some machines back then but free weight was still king. You didn't see as many back injuries doing a Bent row because (wether they knew it or not) training with the free weight allowed more strength to be developed in the non-primary movers recruiting more motor units and being naturally stronger than bodybuilders of today.
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Better options.
Joe, I know this is a broad question and you're lacking context that can help you give good answers, but generally, which back exercises are the best to help alleviate chronic recurring lower-back pain?
P.S.: I'm hoping the answer isn't "deadlifts".
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That must have been a light back day.
(http://builtreport.com/schwarzenegger/arnold_rows/arnold_rows_004.jpg)
He was a total mad man!
he was a tool and was lucky he didn't snap something
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Total waste of time. People used to do stiff legged Deadlifts like this too... talk about dangerous for your lower back.
Did stiffs like this. I cringe thinking about it. No need to go that low
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Did stiffs like this. I cringe thinking about it. No need to go that low
I agree. look at Arnold on the Picture Standing on a fairly narrow bench(very risky concentrating on Balance when you should be concentrating on your back Position). A lot of People do Pendlay rows now too having the back Horizontal and resting the weight between reps. I like Holding my Body above parallel and doing a Standard barbell row and Standing on the floor. Stiff Deads i would never go lower than say mid shin. At least i never see "Good Mornings" anymore...a terrible exercise, in my humble opinion.
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JUST FOR PICS IN THE MAGS......I TALKED WITH JERRY BRAINUM.......HE TOLD ME ARNOLD TRAINED WITH MODERATE POUNDAGE......FRANCO TRAINED HEAVY BUT ARNOLD WAS MORE OF A FEEL KIND OF GUY.
185 FOR BB ROWS AND 50 POUNDS FOR DB CURLS.
To get to that position, by himself, he would've had to stand behind the rack, unrack the bar and walk to the end of the bench, barefoot, carrying 315lbs. To put the bar back, he would have to walk backwards with the weight.
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To get to that position, by himself, he would've had to stand behind the rack, unrack the bar and walk to the end of the bench, barefoot, carrying 315lbs. To put the bar back, he would have to walk backwards with the weight.
Or just load the bar up on the floor and hoist it onto the foot of the bench
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Or just load the bar up on the floor and hoist it onto the foot of the bench
From that starting position, the first rep would have your lower back in a very compromised position.
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To get to that position, by himself, he would've had to stand behind the rack, unrack the bar and walk to the end of the bench, barefoot, carrying 315lbs. To put the bar back, he would have to walk backwards with the weight.
It's so retardededly stupid and dangerous I doubt Arnold actually trained like that when the cameras weren't rolling
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Some iron fundamentalists will hate me for this, but I use the squat rack.
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To get to that position, by himself, he would've had to stand behind the rack, unrack the bar and walk to the end of the bench, barefoot, carrying 315lbs. To put the bar back, he would have to walk backwards with the weight.
You just rest the bar on the bench,bend at the knees and start from the bottom,thats how we all used to do it.Most i went up to was 2 and a half plates but one guy at our gym used to use 3 plates no problem.Your lower back strength builds up over time and i can`t remember anyone having back problems.its correct what Coach said,if you`re used to machines then going to free weight will always find out the weakest link in your body.Its the same if i use a machine on squats,when i go back to a barbell its my lower and middle area of the back that gives out first.A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
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Some iron fundamentalists will hate me for this, but I use the squat rack.
Well then they're idiots...a squat rack is there to hold a barbell in position for any exercise, not just squatting
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Well then they're idiots...a squat rack is there to hold a barbell in position for any exercise, not just squatting
Agree, I never understood the big deal. It was prob an obese powerlifter who started this..
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All the better to survey the serfs who will do your bidding. It's only natural for the peons to want to gaze upon their king.
LOL!