Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: AmonRa on June 02, 2014, 11:31:59 AM
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Is upper chest training a myth? Serious.
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No. You're welcome.
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How can I put a "peak" on my biceps?
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How can I put a "peak" on my biceps?
GET A MARKER WRITE'PEAK'EASY..NEXT..
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Not IMO it isn`t.
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No, but training lower is.
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Clavicular head of peace
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no it isnt.
(http://www.build-some-muscle.com/images/chest-muscles.jpg)
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Concentrate on your upper chest guys it will make you look very impressive in da club.
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no it isnt.
(http://www.build-some-muscle.com/images/chest-muscles.jpg)
I'm aware of that. What I was getting at is there is no specific exercise for "lower" chest. Not decline, not dips, etc.
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Im not sure, but I cant flex my lower and upper pec independently of each other.
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if the motion is different, even a slight angle, the development of muscles will be different
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No, but training lower is.
Not sure about that my lower chest seems to really respond to weighted dips.
To the OP, you cannot generalize about things like that it depends entirely on the individuals biomechanics and genetics as to what exercises will correlate to improving a body part so yes for some it could be myth for other no its very real.
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Try dumbbell bench rotating the dbs as you go up ending with your pinkies together and squeeze. See what burns
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Not sure about that my lower chest seems to really respond to weighted dips.
To the OP, you cannot generalize about things like that it depends entirely on the individuals biomechanics and genetics as to what exercises will correlate to improving a body part so yes for some it could be myth for other no its very real.
yes, thats very obvious in this latest shot.
(http://s14.postimg.org/xgwh14hf5/fatfuckjoon.jpg)
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yes, thats very obvious in this latest shot.
(http://s14.postimg.org/xgwh14hf5/fatfuckjoon.jpg)
bro you must have like a 10 000 picture album of all getbiggers, kind of creepy here. :D
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bro you must have like a 10 000 picture album of all getbiggers, kind of creepy here. :D
I always keep them, they occasionally get deleted by the owners.
That ones gone from Juniors thread.
I have a lovely selection of yours, one even has ripped glutes (I think) ;D
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I only did declines when I first started training in the belief that it would actually develop the "lower chest". After it was explained to me it was total bullshit. I stopped. Haven't directly trained "lower chest" in 35 years. It's right up there with training "lower biceps". My chest turned out fine..
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I only did declines when I first started training in the belief that it would actually develop the "lower chest". After it was explained to me it was total bullshit. I stopped. Haven't directly trained "lower chest" in 35 years. It's right up there with training "upper pecs". My chest turned out fine..
fixed, and still true.
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I always keep them, they occasionally get deleted by the owners.
That ones gone from Juniors thread.
I have a lovely selection of yours, one even has ripped glutes painted glutes (I think) ;D
;D
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I only did declines when I first started training in the belief that it would actually develop the "lower chest". After it was explained to me it was total bullshit. I stopped. Haven't directly trained "lower chest" in 35 years. It's right up there with training "lower biceps". My chest turned out fine..
whether it helps your lower pecs or not, it is a different movement, hence it will yield a different development, albeit marginal but still.
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I only did declines when I first started training in the belief that it would actually develop the "lower chest". After it was explained to me it was total bullshit. I stopped. Haven't directly trained "lower chest" in 35 years. It's right up there with training "lower biceps". My chest turned out fine..
The whole point of decline pressing is reduce the involvement of the deltoids in the movement, which I find to hold true.
I wouldn't say that upper chest training is a myth per se, but I think that any chest movement that adequately stimulates the muscle for an individual will hit the whole muscle, upper & lower
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The whole point of decline pressing is reduce the involvement of the deltoids in the movement, which I find to hold true.
I wouldn't say that upper chest training is a myth per se, but I think that any chest movement that adequately stimulates the muscle for an individual will hit the whole muscle, upper & lower
Agree. And prefer declines as main exercise as seems to work chest most effectively to me.
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Is upper chest training a myth? Serious.
Yes, Leopold :D
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I primarily target my upper-inner pecs on each movement, most don't have the mind muscle connection I do though.
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(http://oi57.tinypic.com/15nb13r.jpg)
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I'm aware of that. What I was getting at is there is no specific exercise for "lower" chest. Not decline, not dips, etc.
believe I've seen EMG 'studies' showing greater activation of the 'upper pec' area (as opposed to incline presses) when doing decline bb presses.. greater still with decline db presses and flyes.
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yes, thats very obvious in this latest shot.
You Kunt was gonna post along these lines.
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if the motion is different, even a slight angle, the development of muscles will be different
Its that simple.
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I've been restricted to machine presses (ones girls use), pec flyes (ones girls use...) and cable crossovers for past 5 weeks or so with shoulder injury. Swear chest has gained muscle, I just upped volume and kept rest between sets to 30-40s to make up for lack of intensity from lifting free weights.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=429163.0;attach=473980;image)(http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com/mrolympia/francocolumbu/17.jpg)
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yes, thats very obvious in this latest shot.
(http://s14.postimg.org/xgwh14hf5/fatfuckjoon.jpg)
ive never seen so many cabinets in a bedroom in my life....
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believe I've seen EMG 'studies' showing greater activation of the 'upper pec' area (as opposed to incline presses) when doing decline bb presses.. greater still with decline db presses and flyes.
When you say activation do you mean phasic/tonic?
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When you say activation do you mean phasic/tonic?
no clue.. I've seen it a couple times.. haven't really put much effort in comparing those types of studies, usually just see them in passing.
from personal experience, I don't get much upper-chest 'development' (results/growth) or what I precieve as stimulation (soreness, a pump, 'feel', ect...) from incline presses... could be from my past sternum, clavicle, shoulder, and neck injuries, but I can't honestly say I've had clients improve their upperchest with incline work either.. the clients who've had good upper chests had good upper chests from the start, and the ones with 'weak' upperchests usually had weak overall chests, and when their overall chest development improved, so did the upper chest.
personally, I get a ton of stimulation in my anterior delts from incline work (bb, db, cable, ect...) and better development top to bottom in my chest with decline pressing (which for many many years I'd avoided like the plague out of fear that it was an unstable position for the shoulder joints).
consider this...
I remember that since AT LEAST 1995, there's been TONS of attention paid to prioritizing the upper chest.. guys advocating starting the chest workout with incline work.. guys NEVER doing a movement that wasn't an incline of some degree... I myself (and a couple former training partners, couple well-known dudes most here would know) went years without ever doing flat or decline work, just focusing on incline...... now, that's been nearly 20yrs of guys prioritizing upper chest, and I've yet to see one guy who's upper chest overpowers his 'lower' chest.
logic would tell me that if training flat or decline work makes the 'lower' pecs overpower the upper, then the opposite would be true if for the past 20yrs, guys have been focusing on their upper chest as much as guys in the 70's and 80's did on their lower.
but, it hasn't turned out that way.
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no clue.. I've seen it a couple times.. haven't really put much effort in comparing those types of studies, usually just see them in passing.
from personal experience, I don't get much upper-chest 'development' (results/growth) or what I precieve as stimulation (soreness, a pump, 'feel', ect...) from incline presses... could be from my past sternum, clavicle, shoulder, and neck injuries, but I can't honestly say I've had clients improve their upperchest with incline work either.. the clients who've had good upper chests had good upper chests from the start, and the ones with 'weak' upperchests usually had weak overall chests, and when their overall chest development improved, so did the upper chest.
personally, I get a ton of stimulation in my anterior delts from incline work (bb, db, cable, ect...) and better development top to bottom in my chest with decline pressing (which for many many years I'd avoided like the plague out of fear that it was an unstable position for the shoulder joints).
consider this...
I remember that since AT LEAST 1995, there's been TONS of attention paid to prioritizing the upper chest.. guys advocating starting the chest workout with incline work.. guys NEVER doing a movement that wasn't an incline of some degree... I myself (and a couple former training partners, couple well-known dudes most here would know) went years without ever doing flat or decline work, just focusing on incline...... now, that's been nearly 20yrs of guys prioritizing upper chest, and I've yet to see one guy who's upper chest overpowers his 'lower' chest.
logic would tell me that if training flat or decline work makes the 'lower' pecs overpower the upper, then the opposite would be true if for the past 20yrs, guys have been focusing on their upper chest as much as guys in the 70's and 80's did on their lower.
but, it hasn't turned out that way.
Excellent post.
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Excellent post.
X2
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Excellent post.
Indeed.
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no clue.. I've seen it a couple times.. haven't really put much effort in comparing those types of studies, usually just see them in passing.
from personal experience, I don't get much upper-chest 'development' (results/growth) or what I precieve as stimulation (soreness, a pump, 'feel', ect...) from incline presses... could be from my past sternum, clavicle, shoulder, and neck injuries, but I can't honestly say I've had clients improve their upperchest with incline work either.. the clients who've had good upper chests had good upper chests from the start, and the ones with 'weak' upperchests usually had weak overall chests, and when their overall chest development improved, so did the upper chest.
personally, I get a ton of stimulation in my anterior delts from incline work (bb, db, cable, ect...) and better development top to bottom in my chest with decline pressing (which for many many years I'd avoided like the plague out of fear that it was an unstable position for the shoulder joints).
consider this...
I remember that since AT LEAST 1995, there's been TONS of attention paid to prioritizing the upper chest.. guys advocating starting the chest workout with incline work.. guys NEVER doing a movement that wasn't an incline of some degree... I myself (and a couple former training partners, couple well-known dudes most here would know) went years without ever doing flat or decline work, just focusing on incline...... now, that's been nearly 20yrs of guys prioritizing upper chest, and I've yet to see one guy who's upper chest overpowers his 'lower' chest.
logic would tell me that if training flat or decline work makes the 'lower' pecs overpower the upper, then the opposite would be true if for the past 20yrs, guys have been focusing on their upper chest as much as guys in the 70's and 80's did on their lower.
but, it hasn't turned out that way.
Great post, in fact its pretty much thread end.
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yes ..Excellent post and i agree 100% about Decline press
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no clue.. I've seen it a couple times.. haven't really put much effort in comparing those types of studies, usually just see them in passing.
from personal experience, I don't get much upper-chest 'development' (results/growth) or what I precieve as stimulation (soreness, a pump, 'feel', ect...) from incline presses... could be from my past sternum, clavicle, shoulder, and neck injuries, but I can't honestly say I've had clients improve their upperchest with incline work either.. the clients who've had good upper chests had good upper chests from the start, and the ones with 'weak' upperchests usually had weak overall chests, and when their overall chest development improved, so did the upper chest.
personally, I get a ton of stimulation in my anterior delts from incline work (bb, db, cable, ect...) and better development top to bottom in my chest with decline pressing (which for many many years I'd avoided like the plague out of fear that it was an unstable position for the shoulder joints).
consider this...
I remember that since AT LEAST 1995, there's been TONS of attention paid to prioritizing the upper chest.. guys advocating starting the chest workout with incline work.. guys NEVER doing a movement that wasn't an incline of some degree... I myself (and a couple former training partners, couple well-known dudes most here would know) went years without ever doing flat or decline work, just focusing on incline...... now, that's been nearly 20yrs of guys prioritizing upper chest, and I've yet to see one guy who's upper chest overpowers his 'lower' chest.
logic would tell me that if training flat or decline work makes the 'lower' pecs overpower the upper, then the opposite would be true if for the past 20yrs, guys have been focusing on their upper chest as much as guys in the 70's and 80's did on their lower.
but, it hasn't turned out that way.
Good post , but the upper portion of the chest does not hold the same amount of fibres as the lower or outer sections of the pectorals , it's a very thin area so you would never get over development
of the upper portion hence why you don't see it.
Concentrate on movements that put more tension on the mid to lower chest like flat and decline and do no incline work and you will have a droopy looking chest that visually from a bodybuilding perspective
will make the person look narrow.
Someone like Serge Nubret and Franco Columbo could get away with doing just flat work and there pecs were thick from top to bottom , thats genetics but most are not so lucky.
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arnold chest was awesome yet his inclines were way too steep for conventional thinking . neither he nor nubret did declines . as far as i know .
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In them days not many did Decline press or flys but Roy Callander did. Itīs a very overlooked exercise. the chest is really worked over a full range of Motion with
out killing your shoulders. Most People can use more weight on Decline press too.
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In them days not many did Decline press or flys but Roy Callander did. Itīs a very overlooked exercise. the chest is really worked over a full range of Motion with
out killing your shoulders. Most People can use more weight on Decline press too.
Agreed, if you must bench press, use declines, they stress the pecs way more than flat or incline.
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For "upper chest" training, etc. I present to you EMG results and information here:
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/07/suppversity-emg-series-musculus.html
Personally, I find that I get a much better contraction, pump and "squeeze" when I do an incline cable cross type movement than compared to simply doing barbell or DB inclines.
Amazingly, decline activated all 3 muscle portions of the chest best in the EMG results and MANY people overlook decline work thinking it targets only "lower chest" which is incorrect.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QBkan7soi9E/TfMPGKSOn5I/AAAAAAAABWk/zCEwyfpmO08/s1600/chestPartsActivation.png)
Inverse = decline
I'm going to go ahead and award myself best post of this thread and put this baby to bed.
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For "upper chest" training, etc. I present to you EMG results and information here:
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/07/suppversity-emg-series-musculus.html
Personally, I find that I get a much better contraction, pump and "squeeze" when I do an incline cable cross type movement than compared to simply doing barbell or DB inclines.
Amazingly, decline activated all 3 muscle portions of the chest best in the EMG results and MANY people overlook decline work thinking it targets only "lower chest" which is incorrect.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QBkan7soi9E/TfMPGKSOn5I/AAAAAAAABWk/zCEwyfpmO08/s1600/chestPartsActivation.png)
Inverse = decline
I'm going to go ahead and award myself best post of this thread and put this baby to bed.
your avi clearly demonstrates this.
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For "upper chest" training, etc. I present to you EMG results and information here:
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/07/suppversity-emg-series-musculus.html
Personally, I find that I get a much better contraction, pump and "squeeze" when I do an incline cable cross type movement than compared to simply doing barbell or DB inclines.
Amazingly, decline activated all 3 muscle portions of the chest best in the EMG results and MANY people overlook decline work thinking it targets only "lower chest" which is incorrect.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QBkan7soi9E/TfMPGKSOn5I/AAAAAAAABWk/zCEwyfpmO08/s1600/chestPartsActivation.png)
Inverse = decline
I'm going to go ahead and award myself best post of this thread and put this baby to bed.
That's great and all with all your science fair mumble jumble but the real question is what do you look like in a thong ???
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your avi clearly demonstrates this.
This is NOT how you congratulate the victor or show appreciation for the top notch quality content I provide to the dim witted patrons of this forum. I'm taking time away from my MVA mangled clients and literally losing money to feed my addiction spoon feed you idiots knowledge to set your minds free!
That's great and all with all your science fair mumble jumble but the real question is what do you look like in a thong ???
Like Rolan but without the disgusting 1970s porn stache and a better tan.
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Franco
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Franco
Lol at thinking they actually wrote their own articles. ;D
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Lol at thinking they actually wrote their own articles. ;D
exactly
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This posts wins the internet, and at least, this thread today.
You can pretty much end the thread.
Chiro also rightly points out that declines are far healthier for the shoulder joint and tiny musculature surrounding it.
I've stopped inclines long ago. Love declines, or any move that approximates it.
Here's a neat-o exercise I've been doing lately. Kind of strange looking, but it works great for guys with testy shoulders.
Do your DB presses on the floor. The floor keeps the elbows from drifting too far down. But when I do them, I push my butt off the floor, so I'm in a decline position. It's easy to get into (easier than trying to do it on a decline bench), safer for shoulders, and as long as the floor isn't dirty and doesn't skank up your tap-out t-shirt, it works pretty good.
That, or the seated chest press machine where you do it one arm at a time, but you're kind of turned sideways so your arm crosses in front of your body. I talked about it in a previous post, and ChiroFlex does them too. Seriously...try them.
That last movement, seriously adding new growth to my pecs and I've been off cycle for months. I'm like "why the hell are my pecs still growing?! I have been doing 10 sets at the end of my chest days of these, sets of 15 reps with about 30 sec rest time. Kinda like FST-7 method. I have not found another exercise that can SHORTEN the muscle belly as effectively as this, therefore I am claiming it as the greatest. 8)
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This posts wins the internet, and at least, this thread today.
You can pretty much end the thread.
Chiro also rightly points out that declines are far healthier for the shoulder joint and tiny musculature surrounding it.
I've stopped inclines long ago. Love declines, or any move that approximates it.
Here's a neat-o exercise I've been doing lately. Kind of strange looking, but it works great for guys with testy shoulders.
Do your DB presses on the floor. The floor keeps the elbows from drifting too far down. But when I do them, I push my butt off the floor, so I'm in a decline position. It's easy to get into (easier than trying to do it on a decline bench), safer for shoulders, and as long as the floor isn't dirty and doesn't skank up your tap-out t-shirt, it works pretty good.
That, or the seated chest press machine where you do it one arm at a time, but you're kind of turned sideways so your arm crosses in front of your body. I talked about it in a previous post, and ChiroFlex does them too. Seriously...try them.
Try Db press on the floor one arm at a time, brace yourself with your other arm on a vertical upright to prevent flipping if you're going over 120lbs. It's awkward at first but for a variety of reasons it's far better and easier to get in and out of position.
Machine presses like that are "ok" but the fixed angle isn't great for the joint , try the brodouche magnet ala the standing cable adjustable machine and do the same motion.
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Try the one arm floor press too, just lie on your side and roll into position holding the db, you can set up perfectly with a solid foundation.. That, cable press and incline DBS are all I do now for pressing. Shoulders feel great unless I decide to do something stupid "just to see how strong I still am in bench" :(
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"Franco"'s dips-cable crossovers superset was the key to his strength.
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Anyone got EMG studies on lat fiber involvement in various exercises?
Always was curious to see which exercises involved the lower originating lat fibers, versus those fibers that originate higher up the spinal column.
I find that thunder-humping "Muscular Christianity"'s mother works the lower lats while "Bodybuilder Lex Reeves"'s mother is better for the upper lats.
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For "upper chest" training, etc. I present to you EMG results and information here:
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/07/suppversity-emg-series-musculus.html
Personally, I find that I get a much better contraction, pump and "squeeze" when I do an incline cable cross type movement than compared to simply doing barbell or DB inclines.
Amazingly, decline activated all 3 muscle portions of the chest best in the EMG results and MANY people overlook decline work thinking it targets only "lower chest" which is incorrect.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QBkan7soi9E/TfMPGKSOn5I/AAAAAAAABWk/zCEwyfpmO08/s1600/chestPartsActivation.png)
Inverse = decline
I'm going to go ahead and award myself best post of this thread and put this baby to bed.
Nothing that I saw in this article that would suggest anything about exercise selection order, loads, progressions, sets, reps, recovery or duration of a routine (weeks, months, etc). All of this makes a difference in terms of effectiveness when programming. Is the a decline going to be the only exercise then of course it's going to be the most effective exercise. But besides all that I have listed above, it come's down to genetics.
Since most bodybuilders (and it's been said MANY times on here by various individuals) that consistent programming isn't necessary, in other words, go to the gym and just pick random shit to do, this study isn't complete. Btw, I do understand this an EMG study. This is a 14 year old study.
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how about V DIPS . ANY GOOD . THOUGH i never liked them . hard . i prefer parallel dips