Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Fuzzy Nuts on September 17, 2014, 04:52:07 PM
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I have a friend with a thyroid problem and was prescribed cytomel. He has slowly lost a lot of weight without changing his diet. I have been considering trying some to aid in fat loss. Bad idea?
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Well, it's a good idea in that T3 helps burn fat.
It's a bad idea since it shuts down your own thyroid levels & if you don't know how to diet properly, you'll get fat very easily after you come off.
It's also catabolic, so you will lose muscle in high enough dosages of 50mcg+ if you're not on gear.
I would opt for the good old ECA stack in this case. Less rebound afterward & less muscle wasting.
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^ Some good advise there.
If you "must" use it pyramid up and down starting from 12,5 mcg (just to see how you react) slowly to 25, 37,5 then 50 mcg daily and then back down. 8 weeks of this will burn a lot of fat but you need to be on steroids as well.
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Good advices are worth their weight in Schäufele und Knödel.
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legendary getbiger buselmo used to grow on 180mcg of T3 and 320mcg of clen (yes you read correctly). of course on gear but also dieting hard
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I liked it, mostly for the bump in energy it would give me while dieting. As far as fat loss goes, I didn't really notice a whole lot more, but I never really used a whole lot. Started off at 50mcg and went up to 100mcg, but I didn't see much more benefit with the increased dose.
I found ephedrine to be much more effective, mostly because it suppressed appetite.
I didn't taper off, just stopped....didn't really notice any sign of my metabolism being slow.
It's fairly safe and effective for many, give it a try.
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I think T3, by itself, is quite useless for dieting, unless you're in the 100mcg+ range. At that dose, you're getting a ton of sides, shutting down your own levels & getting muscle wasting. Ephedrine will get you the same results without any of that for a fraction of the price.
I think adding 25mcg to a bulking cycle is a better use of T3, as it helps boost metabolism, process food faster etc.
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i've been wanting to try t3 while bulking for some time as my experienced went sour the first time i tried it.. i think it was 60-80mcg that i ran and it chewed through my muscle and shrunk me down even on superdrol.. that was a very very long time ago and i wrote t3 off since... but... im curious trying just 25mcg year round or something.. especially in lean bulks... I do have a descently fast metabolism but not a naturally lean dude... so it makes me wonder.. i need tons of calories to build and to maintain and now that im bigger i can get away with much more food and stya leaner easier too but NOT ripped as again.. not naturally lean dude..
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i've been wanting to try t3 while bulking for some time as my experienced went sour the first time i tried it.. i think it was 60-80mcg that i ran and it chewed through my muscle and shrunk me down even on superdrol.. that was a very very long time ago and i wrote t3 off since... but... im curious trying just 25mcg year round or something.. especially in lean bulks... I do have a descently fast metabolism but not a naturally lean dude... so it makes me wonder.. i need tons of calories to build and to maintain and now that im bigger i can get away with much more food and stya leaner easier too but NOT ripped as again.. not naturally lean dude..
25 mcg is generally considered to be a replacement dose...most folks I've heard that use it while gaining muscle dose it at 50 mcg
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25 mcg is generally considered to be a replacement dose...most folks I've heard that use it while gaining muscle dose it at 50 mcg
You have to be on a fair bit of gear to not have muscle wasting on 50mcg if you're using it long term. Plus, the jittery feeling on 50mcg is not fun & for me, bulking should be fun. You're lifting heavy, eating a lot, sleeping a lot etc.
I'd opt for 30min cardio 3x a week instead to keep fat low & boost metabolism. Not as easy as popping a pill, but better imo.
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You have to be on a fair bit of gear to not have muscle wasting on 50mcg if you're using it long term. Plus, the jittery feeling on 50mcg is not fun & for me, bulking should be fun. You're lifting heavy, eating a lot, sleeping a lot etc.
I'd opt for 30min cardio 3x a week instead to keep fat low & boost metabolism. Not as easy as popping a pill, but better imo.
No way, I did just fine on 300mg test e and 50-100mcg of generic cytomel. Was the heaviest and leanest I had ever been. The "muscle wasting" effect gets way exaggerated IMO. Never got jitters either, just smooth energy...kind of like what you get from a vitamin B shot, except moreso.
You're totally right about the cardio though, T3 isn't a necessity and adding more drugs to a bodybuilder's stack is typically not a good idea. Just sharing what I've heard others report.
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Thank you for the replies. I have always had problems getting lean and would use hrt along with t3.
My friend has made an amazing transformation. I believe he is prescribed 120 mcg...was more like 180 before, but he lost weight too fast. His endo insists on brand name cytomel for some reason...no generics.
Has anyone had recovery problems after a t3 cycle? According to the interwebs recovery takes about 2 weeks.That doesn't sound bad in theory...just watch diet very close coming off?
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Thank you for the replies. I have always had problems getting lean and would use hrt along with t3.
My friend has made an amazing transformation. I believe he is prescribed 120 mcg...was more like 180 before, but he lost weight too fast. His endo insists on brand name cytomel for some reason...no generics.
Has anyone had recovery problems after a t3 cycle? According to the interwebs recovery takes about 2 weeks.That doesn't sound bad in theory...just watch diet very close coming off?
Holy shit, 120mcg? Are you sure your friend isn't on synthroid (t4)? People with thyroid deficiency almost always get synthroid prescribed, and I can't imagine why a doctor would prescribe 5x the physiological dose of t3.
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Holy shit, 120mcg? Are you sure your friend isn't on synthroid (t4)? People with thyroid deficiency almost always get synthroid prescribed, and I can't imagine why a doctor would prescribe 5x the physiological dose of t3.
just like some people need a legit 200mg a week of test to get them in normal range for HRT, some people need much more t3 than just 25mcg.
i think ausbuilt on some UK AAS forum said that he takes up to 200mcg to really get supraphysiological levels, guy is very knowledgable.
100mcg is basically equal to endogenous production for "ectomorphs" (i dont buy into the somatotype stuff, but some people with hyperthyroidism must produce t3 equal to 100mcg exogenous t3 easily).
i think ive also seen a study that suggested that 100mcg t3 was basically "hrt" for some folks with a "high metabolism"
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ausbuilt on uk-muscle wrote a lot about T3. He said too that after using 100mcg+ t3 for few years without break you can easy get back Your Thyroid function to normal after few weeks. He showed a lot of studies about it.
And he said that using T3 while using AAS has a lot of benefits like raising protein synthesis, better compounds working etc...
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ausbuilt on uk-muscle wrote a lot about T3. He said too that after using 100mcg+ t3 for few years without break you can easy get back Your Thyroid function to normal after few weeks. He showed a lot of studies about it.
And he said that using T3 while using AAS has a lot of benefits like raising protein synthesis, better compounds working etc...
i believe in that. i mean there are studies that show that protein degradation actually increases MORE than protein synthesis with t3, BUT i think theres the potential that when you use AAS (strongly increasing protein synthesis) that effect might turn around in favor of protein synthesis.
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just like some people need a legit 200mg a week of test to get them in normal range for HRT, some people need much more t3 than just 25mcg.
i think ausbuilt on some UK AAS forum said that he takes up to 200mcg to really get supraphysiological levels, guy is very knowledgable.
100mcg is basically equal to endogenous production for "ectomorphs" (i dont buy into the somatotype stuff, but some people with hyperthyroidism must produce t3 equal to 100mcg exogenous t3 easily).
i think ive also seen a study that suggested that 100mcg t3 was basically "hrt" for some folks with a "high metabolism"
Who needs 200mg/week to get between 400-800ng/dl? Are you going off anecdotes from bodybuilding boards to get your information?
Hyperthyroidism is a pathological condition, so even if there are folks that are naturally producing the equivalent of 100mcg t3, that doesn't mean that any physician would dose their patient with an equivalent dosage. Besides, let's not forget: the OP said his friend started off at 180mcg.
I can practically guarantee that his friend has been taking Synthroid. The dosages match up perfectly, and Synthroid is the main medication indicated for primary hypothyroidism.
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I'm one of those dudes that needs 200mg test for hrt lol as per doc. I also need higher doses of aas to get as much of a result, sucks but that's life.
T3 on the other hand.. that's a different story... I"m going to get some and start doing 25mcg and go from there..
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Who needs 200mg/week to get between 400-800ng/dl? Are you going off anecdotes from bodybuilding boards to get your information?
Hyperthyroidism is a pathological condition, so even if there are folks that are naturally producing the equivalent of 100mcg t3, that doesn't mean that any physician would dose their patient with an equivalent dosage. Besides, let's not forget: the OP said his friend started off at 180mcg.
I can practically guarantee that his friend has been taking Synthroid. The dosages match up perfectly, and Synthroid is the main medication indicated for primary hypothyroidism.
where else am i supposed to get information about that lol.
theres plenty of people on HRT taking 200mg a week and only scoring 800 or so
according to this guy ausbuilt thyroid activity can be accurately measured by checking body temp in the morning
he then somehow concluded that 100mcg might just shut down natural production for some guys and wont increase metabolism at all
im not sure if this is fully dependent on body temp though.
t3 production in the body is very variable though. in periods of carbohydrate overfeeding t3 production (/t4 to t3 conversion) drastically increases and double the "normal" levels are achieved, ive read a study about that a while ago. "natural" t3 was at the equivalent of about 30mcg or so, during the overfeeding period it got up to >50mcg
too lazy to dig that study out now though.
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Holy shit, 120mcg? Are you sure your friend isn't on synthroid (t4)? People with thyroid deficiency almost always get synthroid prescribed, and I can't imagine why a doctor would prescribe 5x the physiological dose of t3.
I think you might be right. I'll have to talk to him again. I was kind of wondering why everyone was recommending around 50mcg.
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I'm probably gonna use T3 50-100mcg while cruising on Test E 250mg/Week after I come off Tren so I'll let you know how it goes
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I think you might be right. I'll have to talk to him again. I was kind of wondering why everyone was recommending around 50mcg.
Hes' on T4, which makes the 120mcg dosage make sense, since they come in 40mcg tabs usually. 120mcg T3 is A LOT & not fun to be on.
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Hes' on T4, which makes the 120mcg dosage make sense, since they come in 40mcg tabs usually. 120mcg T3 is A LOT & not fun to be on.
i used 200mcg t3 for cutting cycles before... actually the quick weight loss is pretty fun, lol.
only thing thats annoying is the fact that i cant even wear anything else but tshirts, no matter how could it is outside, because as soon as i enter a room the sweat starts pouring.
cant even wear a beanie in the winter because my head would get completely wet underneath.
oh and t3 can make you flat. like REALLY flat.
on my last cut i ran 150mcg with test and npp and i was FLAT AS SH*T. looked like i never touched a weight in clothes.
this time i run 200mcg with test, tren and mast and im not flat at all. its crazy, but the tren seems to counteract the glycogen robbery from the t3.
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I liked it while on it at the proper dosage though. When I bumped it up I began to lose muscle and look very flat. Works very good but not worth the rebound when I stopped using it IMO. Basically while on it you can feel your body just burning off those calories as after you eat a meal you begin to feel hot and the heat literally radiates off your back. Stopping it after a contest sucked even when I didn't go on a binge and splurge.
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gonna do a lean bulk after this weekends powerlifting comp, insulin, gh, test enth and tren,was gonna go with 25mcg twice a day
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gonna do a lean bulk after this weekends powerlifting comp, insulin, gh, test enth and tren,was gonna go with 25mcg twice a day
thats good
i use 60-70mcg a day personally when bulking. (divided in 2-3 dosages)
i mainly like it because you can switch from a bulk to a cut and vice versa so damn quickly without having to reverse diet or cut/increase carbs carefully.
reverse dieting for another xx weeks sucks ass when you just come out of a cut.
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what do you mean by reverse dieting when you come off
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if you diet naturally for lets say 20 weeks then in the end your metabolism is gonna be wrecked...
you cant just jump up 1500 kcals to your old bulking macros...
to avoid getting fat after a natural cut you have to increase calories extremely carefully, like 100 kcals a week to hold condition and slowly increase thyroid levels back up
with t3 you can just up 1000 kcals and not put on any fat at all
look at aaron curtis (proclaimed natural), he cuts like 30 weeks for a comp and then reverse diets for another 10-20 weeks or so at least to not get fat quickly again, he increases carbs by like 20 grams a day every week or some shit
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I've had good results using 50mcg of T3 while bulking, but i prefer to use T3 when i'm trying to lean out. 75-100mcg of T3 is the most i would ever recommend. Pyramid up and down, use it for 6-8 weeks, you can run it longer, but i've never used it longer than 10 weeks.
8)
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I prefer it to clen. Stopped using clen actually as it was affecting my mood and giving me headache. Was using Alpha Pharma clen too which is very good.
Ephedrine is hard to come by now in Ireland.
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I prefer it to clen. Stopped using clen actually as it was affecting my mood and giving me headache. Was using Alpha Pharma clen too which is very good.
Ephedrine is hard to come by now in Ireland.
Clen makes me very jittery. I've only used it a few times and even at low doses it made me feel like shit.
T3 and a good diet is really all you need.
8)
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was one week on clen, and just added 20mcg t3, will up to 40mcg.. and i droppe the clen.. il lgo at it again a week from now. Didn't feel in the mood for clen (clen alone has always worked well for me with a clean diet).
It may be all in my head but within one day i'm looking leaner lmao... As I already mentioned in the past, my previous t3 experience was horrible and limited...
From all I've read.. it seems like a low dose while eating more may be a good thing and I want in lol.. sick of gaining fat on bulks haha. I'm taking 50mg tren EOD with deca and test as the main boys in my injectable arsenal... Normally I don't use test.. but felt like it... and deca is usually what i rely upon for bulks rather than test or tren... tren/mast is what i run throughout the year if im not bulking... with only test p on weekends for libido kick.
I'll try something different for a change... I always run a tad bit of tren all year long... I used to get sides like everyone does, but no more, other than increased bp... no more insomnia, etc...
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was one week on clen, and just added 20mcg t3, will up to 40mcg.. and i droppe the clen.. il lgo at it again a week from now. Didn't feel in the mood for clen (clen alone has always worked well for me with a clean diet).
It may be all in my head but within one day i'm looking leaner lmao... As I already mentioned in the past, my previous t3 experience was horrible and limited...
it is.
From all I've read.. it seems like a low dose while eating more may be a good thing and I want in lol.. sick of gaining fat on bulks haha. I'm taking 50mg tren EOD with deca and test as the main boys in my injectable arsenal... Normally I don't use test.. but felt like it... and deca is usually what i rely upon for bulks rather than test or tren... tren/mast is what i run throughout the year if im not bulking... with only test p on weekends for libido kick.
I'll try something different for a change... I always run a tad bit of tren all year long... I used to get sides like everyone does, but no more, other than increased bp... no more insomnia, etc...
20mcg t3 is a waste of time... you produce 25mcg naturally. when youre eating a lot of carbs even up to twice that amount.
use at least 50mcg when cutting up to as much as you can tolerate without it eating your muscle
if you want to use it while bulking use 50-75mcg or so (it increases protein turnover so with lots of AAS it might increase protein synthesis further) ... the higher end can limit gains though
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I prefer it to clen. Stopped using clen actually as it was affecting my mood and giving me headache. Was using Alpha Pharma clen too which is very good.
Ephedrine is hard to come by now in Ireland.
i have the headache issue too on clen
especially the first days
then im fine
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was one week on clen, and just added 20mcg t3, will up to 40mcg.. and i droppe the clen.. il lgo at it again a week from now. Didn't feel in the mood for clen (clen alone has always worked well for me with a clean diet).
It may be all in my head but within one day i'm looking leaner lmao... As I already mentioned in the past, my previous t3 experience was horrible and limited...
From all I've read.. it seems like a low dose while eating more may be a good thing and I want in lol.. sick of gaining fat on bulks haha. I'm taking 50mg tren EOD with deca and test as the main boys in my injectable arsenal... Normally I don't use test.. but felt like it... and deca is usually what i rely upon for bulks rather than test or tren... tren/mast is what i run throughout the year if im not bulking... with only test p on weekends for libido kick.
I'll try something different for a change... I always run a tad bit of tren all year long... I used to get sides like everyone does, but no more, other than increased bp... no more insomnia, etc...
What benefits do You see with stacking low dose tren to test+deca cycle? :-) You mean tren 12 months, without break?
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keeps bloat down, keeps strength up even when you're eating less. Test is notorious for bloat for me. Deca far less actually. I use an AI mind you. I actually like running tren year round with super low test. No sides, only hardness and strength. But for actual size and packing on new size.. deca and a bunch of orals work best for me... Tren never really built size for me only refined me.
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what do you mean with low dose ? 200mg or so?
and what REALLY interests me is how does your bloodwork look? hdl/ldl?
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Probably super human ;D
Yeah 200-300ish is pretty low dose
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And man.. t3 makes me ridiculously hungry..... im on 40mcg now... it is burning everything.. this is no good.. I am super flat :-/ Trained chest today, I run out of steam FAST... and I carry carbs/fruits with me, but it just goes the way of thin air.
Normally while training I look super pumped... last two days ... nada...
I'll stick to it and roll through it and see how it goes. This is ridiculous lol.. I have no idea how some of you run such higher doses... That's why last time I tried it, at 60-80mcg I just gave up as it ruined a bulk I did. That was years ago. Here I am giving it a second chance at 'lower' doses...
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i run 200mcg currently
and i still got some minor pumps (thanks to the tren)
i dont feel an increase in appetite at all from t3, however the tren makes me a sugar maniac everytime
only downside is thats its pretty cold here (like 12°C) and im walking around in a shirt all the time and getting weird looks
plus i start sweating profusely as soon as i enter a climatized room or bus
people sit there in leather jackets with woolen hats and scarfs and i have sweat pouring down my face and chest in just a shirt lol
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Well it seems I need to eat ridiculous amounts of carbs just to get slight muscle fullness.. this is ridiculous.. I am naturally not a lean guy.. and gain fat quick... over the years I learned how to 'eat'.... and too much carbs has never gone well for me, so this is so.. awkward for me right now. I'm worried to lose muscle and at the same time... I'm worried the carbs will make me fat but... they're just going woosh... Mind wrecking seriously... I'm sticking to 40mcg... and I think I'll just increase calories/eat whatever at this point...
The thing that sucks is training with no pumps at the gym... no crazy vein popping madness either... veins seem to have just 'shrunk'
I'm wondering whether to throw in some dbol like 40-60mg... as dbol usually gives great pumps.. but it is notorious for making me bloated so that's kind of a nyaaa decision...
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dont worry, t3 is NOT as catabolic as people make it look like.
depending on dosage it can COMPLETELY deplete you of glycogen though. but this all comes back when you stop..
at the end of my last cut i looked like a marathon runner, no carbs in me, fullness gone, bodyfat gone. like a beanpole...
but a week after dropping t3 and getting carbs back in you look like a completely different person, its insane. all the fullness is back and you even look much leaner because the skin is pushed out by the full muscles.
the funny thing about a high dose is that you can eat 500g carbs in one sitting and still be completely flat the next day. you just start sweating like mad and burn up, but literally nothing reaches your muscles. thats probably what makes people think they "lost muscle"...
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i run 200mcg currently
and i still got some minor pumps (thanks to the tren)
i dont feel an increase in appetite at all from t3, however the tren makes me a sugar maniac everytime
only downside is thats its pretty cold here (like 12°C) and im walking around in a shirt all the time and getting weird looks
plus i start sweating profusely as soon as i enter a climatized room or bus
people sit there in leather jackets with woolen hats and scarfs and i have sweat pouring down my face and chest in just a shirt lol
200mcg...is that a typo
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200mcg...is that a typo
nope... people always jump on the OMG THATS TOO MUCH bandwagon just because some bro on some forum told them t3 eats muscle...
try it yourself man, t3 is great ;)
oh and look up buselmo (i think it was him) here on getbig... he was pretty knowledgable and high dosed t3 himself
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Well bro I'm gonna continue as I am right now at 40mcg.. I believe I won't go more than 60mcg. I'll throw in some clen in a week or two at 60mcg and see what happens too.
So far so good.. just needing to eat more carbs... They just go poof.
Reding 200mcg hurts my heart lol, but I won't go crazy. The most I read most people do is 100mcg on a good dose of tren, overall anabolics and clen...
I guess.. I'll roll it out and cruise along for a few months with t3 and learn the slopes with it.
I guess it's kind of like with clen.. first three days SUCK and then after that you feel great, lean out and even can put on some new size/strength since u push harder. But first three days.. flat as a marathoner like you say and aching everywhere.
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Well bro I'm gonna continue as I am right now at 40mcg.. I believe I won't go more than 60mcg. I'll throw in some clen in a week or two at 60mcg and see what happens too.
So far so good.. just needing to eat more carbs... They just go poof.
Reding 200mcg hurts my heart lol, but I won't go crazy. The most I read most people do is 100mcg on a good dose of tren, overall anabolics and clen...
I guess.. I'll roll it out and cruise along for a few months with t3 and learn the slopes with it.
I guess it's kind of like with clen.. first three days SUCK and then after that you feel great, lean out and even can put on some new size/strength since u push harder. But first three days.. flat as a marathoner like you say and aching everywhere.
yeah the aching is bad... especially when you do leg press or stuff that involves stretching ur arms (lat pulldowns or whatever)...
it really hurts to the point where you want to stop and its just only the joints but feels like the bones or something...
really bad but that usually comes within the first week and then goes away for me
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It works well but it flattens you out. I think the optimal way to use it would be balls fucking deep in a cutting cycle once there's nothing left to peel off the last bit of fat.
A general cutting tip - when you do hit a plateau, go easy for a bit on the dieting and training and then go back at it full speed. I hate using Layne's "reverse dieting" phrase, but your metabolism does take a hit and resting will let you build up momentum again. Once you start hitting the weights and diet hard, keep the momentum going by tossing in 25-50mcg of T3 but don't go higher. Higher T3 will speed up the metabolism, but there's a rate of diminishing returns and I don't think losing weight faster is necessarily better. At the higher T3 range you start really burning up glycogen and the muscles don't swell up no matter how much you carb up, play with your water or rest. That was my experience at least. I think a little T3 goes a long way. Don't blast it haphazardly like a lot of desperate fools. A couple few-week bouts of T3 will make a huge impact if you do it right.
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What's T3's half life?
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about a day (24 hours)
it gets absorbed fully within 3-4 hours though
means high doses at once "hit harder" as opposed to spreading it out (dosage is the same of course, but sides tend to be more pronounced by taking all at once imo)
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I just read the posts about 200mcg... everyone knows that I HATE a fear monger and try dispelling myths and bringing SENSE into our discussions. But who the fuck needs 200mcg of T3!?!?!? If you have absolutely no body fat on your body, then I'll eat my words. But if you're rocking nothing less than a shredded 6 pack without flexing and with no more than a bit of skin covering it, you need to reevaluate what you're doing.
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I just read the posts about 200mcg... everyone knows that I HATE a fear monger and try dispelling myths and bringing SENSE into our discussions. But who the fuck needs 200mcg of T3!?!?!? If you have absolutely no body fat on your body, then I'll eat my words. But if you're rocking nothing less than a shredded 6 pack without flexing and with no more than a bit of skin covering it, you need to reevaluate what you're doing.
who the fuck needs 3 grams of test?
this is a bodybuilding forum.
we push things to the extreme
i love testing sh*t so i pushed the t3 as high as i could tolerate without major muscle loss.
if you dont like it, its not your body.
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nope... people always jump on the OMG THATS TOO MUCH bandwagon just because some bro on some forum told them t3 eats muscle...
try it yourself man, t3 is great ;)
oh and look up buselmo (i think it was him) here on getbig... he was pretty knowledgable and high dosed t3 himself
the great buselmo was running 180mcg of T3, 320mcg of clen and 60mg of ephedrine stacked together ;D
i actually think i saw him in a mall in kuala lumpur last august
didnt dare to ask if it was him as he was eating
mind you im living in europe and was in vacation
small world
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wow if that's true that's... some heart quenching/twisting doses damn... I'm on 60mcg t3 and 100mcg clen right now... just playing around to see what it does if im eating higher amounts of food. Until I get a better understanding of how my body responds with the combo... Don't want to dip low cals + these drugs and then waste muscle like an idiot either...
So far I leaned out a tiny itsy bit... but I'm hating the lack of painful crazy pumps and veins that I'm normally used to :-/
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you can easily overeat even on huge dosages of t3...
its funny because you sweat like A MANIAC on 200mcg but the metabolism increase is not as huge as you would think. maybe increase by 400-500kcals burned.
200mcg pretty DNP-like though when it comes to sweating and flatness, imo even worse.
you dont seem to store glycogen from lots of carbs but the weight gain is still there if you overeat.
imo its especially the fats.
ive had refeeds on t3 where i ate strictly carbs and lots of them, had no weight gain or my weight was lower 2-3 days later.
when you overeat a lot of fat, the weight gain seems to stick.
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t3 is a double edged sword for me.
it burns the fat, flattens me out... I wouldnt say eats muscle.
but the hunger cravings are so counter productive I have a hard time losing fat due all the binging.
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who the fuck needs 3 grams of test?
this is a bodybuilding forum.
we push things to the extreme
i love testing sh*t so i pushed the t3 as high as i could tolerate without major muscle loss.
if you dont like it, its not your body.
I'm not your wife or your mother, so I can't tell you "you can't do that". But I can ask you if that's something you've critically reflected on and evaluated? I've taken larger doses too, but in my experience there was very little to gain when pushing the envelope.
Anabolics are pretty potent. I think it's a success when people can get by on lower doses, not when they can tolerate massive ones. I'm not a fear monger and I don't think the sides are too strenuous, but there is a small amount of cumulative damage that none of us can escape.
I just hope that what you're doing is more on the shorter-term than the longer-term. 200mcg of real T3 is a hefty dosage. 50-75mcg is a dosage that damn near anyone will see great results from. But as the dosage climbs, the returns begin to diminish quickly. I recall lots of your posts and you seem to have a firm grasp on what you're doing, but maybe lowering the T3 dose could be a consideration. Just my opinion. After having a few health scares and seeing a few that friends have had, I've made an effort to do things a bit more safely and my progress hasn't suffered at all.
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I'm not your wife or your mother, so I can't tell you "you can't do that". But I can ask you if that's something you've critically reflected on and evaluated? I've taken larger doses too, but in my experience there was very little to gain when pushing the envelope.
Anabolics are pretty potent. I think it's a success when people can get by on lower doses, not when they can tolerate massive ones. I'm not a fear monger and I don't think the sides are too strenuous, but there is a small amount of cumulative damage that none of us can escape.
I just hope that what you're doing is more on the shorter-term than the longer-term. 200mcg of real T3 is a hefty dosage. 50-75mcg is a dosage that damn near anyone will see great results from. But as the dosage climbs, the returns begin to diminish quickly. I recall lots of your posts and you seem to have a firm grasp on what you're doing, but maybe lowering the T3 dose could be a consideration. Just my opinion. After having a few health scares and seeing a few that friends have had, I've made an effort to do things a bit more safely and my progress hasn't suffered at all.
i understand what youre saying. i like to evaluate stuff myself.
for me that includes testing very high dosages aswell.
actually after trying out on different stuff id say 150mcg is a good dosage when cutting on >1g AAS.
200mcg makes daily tasks a chore because of the sweating. 150mcg gives near same results but the sweating is definitely less pronounced.
i agree on the fact that 50mcg is enough to get great results while dieting. i mean it more than replaces natural thyroid output and holds metabolism steadily high on a deficit.
100mcg gives great metabolism increase, 150mcg even more so. of couse 200mcg is more again, but here the sides overshadow the benefits imo.
my conclusion is that 150mcg is a great middleway in terms of benefits/sides.
another thing i noticed is that dehydration becomes a problem on 200mcg.
my thirst definitely correlates with t3 dosage.
on a higher dosage i usually drink 5-6l a day.
one day i drank only about 2l because i was busy and late at night my legs started cramping up badly.
felt like i was dying.
ESFs thyrotoxicosis story came to mind. was a really bad feeling to cramp up every time you move.
it really felt like paralysis.
but i kept chugging water and popped some multivitamins. the next day i chugged like 2 gallons and it got much better, the day after that i was completely fine again.
so yeah i realized that this stuff is nothing to play with.
for me this is part of the game. you have to make mistakes to learn and become smarter.
i learned from that.
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It's best to avoid.
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It's best to avoid.
its best to avoid the whole BB lifestyle including lifting heavy weights, drugs, overeating, contest prep, etc when it comes to health
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my experience...
ran t3 at 200+ mcg/day for 9 months... thinking it was t4.
started at about 10% at 230/235.
bodyfat dropped to 8% after a few weeks, then 6% and finally settled at 5% after about 8 weeks and remained at 5% for the remaineder (until I was admitted to the hospital. lol)
bodyweight dropped steadily 10lbs, then 5, then 10, then 8.... whatever, I forget the exact numbers.
all in all, I went from the 230's down to the 170's in 9 months, and after the first 2 months, my bodyfat remained the same (5%), so the rest of the 7 months, all the weight I lost was catabolized muscle.
felt like shit for the last 7 months as well... weak and tired. I'd get home, sit down on the couch with my food and fall asleep sitting up before I took the first bite.
was taking in 4-6k kcals as well, and running test, tren and for a few months towards the end anadrol at 150-250mg/day.
eating shitty food.. ice cream, doughnuts, pizza, hotdogs.. everything I could that was high kcal because I couldn't figure out why I was dropping weight so quickly.
I ended up in the hospital with Thyrotoxic Periodic Partial Paralysis with CK levels in the 1200-1500 range. woke up unable to move my legs and most my torso. after being on a bed in the ER, they finally realized my potassium was 2.1 (I believe.. it was just above 2... could've been 2.2) and they freaked out and said I may be put on a ventilator because my diaphragm may stop working and I'd stop breathing on my own.... so, after an hour of blowing (or sucking? I forget) on a plastic breathing test thing, they gave me 2 tablets of potassium.
15mins later, I noticed my foot was moving. (like how you move your foot in bed when you're bored... since I'd been in that bed for about 12hrs at the time)... then the nurse noticed it and asked if I could walk... so I tried and holy shit, I could walk... not steadily, but I could walk and move.
they kept me that night (Friday), and Saturday, and finally I checked myself out against medical advice sunday night. after a chest xray, 4 or 5 CT scans from my neck to my pelvis, as well as a spinal tap. (hoooooooooly fuck. do NOT EVER get a spinal tap unless you're absolutely SURE you need it. you'll have a migraine for 10days afterwards and your neck/back/head will feel like it's made from Styrofoam and brittle as fuck.)...
... oh, and a $160k medical bill. (thanks Manpower Research/MP Research... for your awesome peptides/research chems.. fucking piece of shit.)
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my experience...
ran t3 at 200+ mcg/day for 9 months... thinking it was t4.
started at about 10% at 230/235.
bodyfat dropped to 8% after a few weeks, then 6% and finally settled at 5% after about 8 weeks and remained at 5% for the remaineder (until I was admitted to the hospital. lol)
bodyweight dropped steadily 10lbs, then 5, then 10, then 8.... whatever, I forget the exact numbers.
all in all, I went from the 230's down to the 170's in 9 months, and after the first 2 months, my bodyfat remained the same (5%), so the rest of the 7 months, all the weight I lost was catabolized muscle.
felt like shit for the last 7 months as well... weak and tired. I'd get home, sit down on the couch with my food and fall asleep sitting up before I took the first bite.
was taking in 4-6k kcals as well, and running test, tren and for a few months towards the end anadrol at 150-250mg/day.
eating shitty food.. ice cream, doughnuts, pizza, hotdogs.. everything I could that was high kcal because I couldn't figure out why I was dropping weight so quickly.
I ended up in the hospital with Thyrotoxic Periodic Partial Paralysis with CK levels in the 1200-1500 range. woke up unable to move my legs and most my torso. after being on a bed in the ER, they finally realized my potassium was 2.1 (I believe.. it was just above 2... could've been 2.2) and they freaked out and said I may be put on a ventilator because my diaphragm may stop working and I'd stop breathing on my own.... so, after an hour of blowing (or sucking? I forget) on a plastic breathing test thing, they gave me 2 tablets of potassium.
15mins later, I noticed my foot was moving. (like how you move your foot in bed when you're bored... since I'd been in that bed for about 12hrs at the time)... then the nurse noticed it and asked if I could walk... so I tried and holy shit, I could walk... not steadily, but I could walk and move.
they kept me that night (Friday), and Saturday, and finally I checked myself out against medical advice sunday night. after a chest xray, 4 or 5 CT scans from my neck to my pelvis, as well as a spinal tap. (hoooooooooly fuck. do NOT EVER get a spinal tap unless you're absolutely SURE you need it. you'll have a migraine for 10days afterwards and your neck/back/head will feel like it's made from Styrofoam and brittle as fuck.)...
... oh, and a $160k medical bill. (thanks Manpower Research/MP Research... for your awesome peptides/research chems.. fucking piece of shit.)
lol
murica fuck yeah
you can buy a BRAND NEW AUDI RS7 with that money they charged you for a few scans
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lol
murica fuck yeah
you can buy a BRAND NEW AUDI RS7 with that money they charged you for a few scans
id rather be alive and drive a fiat punto though :P
american healthcare system seems to be pretty fucked, but in the end that was just fair - i mean it was ESFs "own mistake" to take this substance.
WELL OBVIOUSLY it was MPresearchs fault, so no offense ESF. but you know, judging from a financial standpoint...
ive also gotten some "clen" from MPR that i still dont know what the fuck that was.
i took a 40mcg cap of "clen" and had the worst nausea of my life for days from that. i was shaking, felt nauseous, started vomiting about 30mins after taking it. had to lay in bed for about 6 hours before i was able to some kind of function again.
had a hangover for like 2 or 3 days. really weird sh*t. id love to know what ACTUALLY was inside of there because it was damn sure no clen.
i looked damn good though, it somehow dryed me out apparently lol. maybe it was a mixture of i dont know, thyroid hormones, diuretics and a huge dose of some kind of stimulant. wtf.
tossed that shit out right after that along with any other sh*t i got from that guy. had a feeling it was all fake/underdosed anyway.
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my source literally died (passed away) :( poor guy... never expected it to happen, it was a shocker.
So now I'm low on everything, dropped t3 to 20mcg... dropped clen. Stretching the vial I have. Had to order from a place that'll take 10 business days to come... And just as I was getting out of a bulk into this recomp... but oh well. Screw the gains, I'll make them back... poor guy died :(
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From Yours experience...
Have You need to add a lot of calories to Your daily intake if You add ~50mcg T3 and if You want continue build muscle tissues?
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not really. the calorie increase from 50mcg is negligible.
maybe substract some fat and add some carbs to avoid going flat if you add exogenous t3...
there are studies on carbohydrate overfeeding that show that t4 to t3 conversion increases a lot when a lot of carbohydrates are eaten (which equals a bulking scenario for us). i think they even stated the liothyronine equivalent and it was somewhere between 40 and 55 mcg or so.
so when you are bulking you actually ARE on 50mcg t3, just produced naturally.
i meant to quote that study a couple times but i cant for the life of mine find it again. i think that was just a side outcome and it was actually on something completely different.
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I can use two products, T3 ( 25mcg/pill ) or T3+T4 ( 20mcg T3 + 100mcg T4/pill ). Big difference beetween it?
I mean for example
50mcg T3 vs. 40mcg T3 + 200mcg T4 ?
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t4 is completely useless unless youre deficient or on GH
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so far I found 40mcg-60mcg a sweet spot.. but definitely need eod tren/mast injection to get any muscle fullness/pumps... otherwise flat as paper lol...
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so far I found 40mcg-60mcg a sweet spot.. but definitely need eod tren/mast injection to get any muscle fullness/pumps... otherwise flat as paper lol...
tren is a lifesaver on t3
it ate all my fullness and pumps on test/npp (npp gives me strong pumps usually)...
on test/tren i still have good pumps and fullness after working out on 150mcg
that shows how fkin strong tren is again
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tren is a lifesaver on t3
it ate all my fullness and pumps on test/npp (npp gives me strong pumps usually)...
on test/tren i still have good pumps and fullness after working out on 150mcg
that shows how fkin strong tren is again
Me too, but i need huge amount of carbs cuz Tren + T3 "eat" them in fking awesome rate :-D
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Why would anyone use anything non pharma grade for drugs dosed in mcg?
Thats just asking for trouble.
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Why would anyone use anything non pharma grade for drugs dosed in mcg?
Thats just asking for trouble.
because a lifetime supply of t3 powder is less than 200 bucks.
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because a lifetime supply of t3 powder is less than 200 bucks.
Pharma grade liothyronine will not break the bank and there aint a price I put on my health.
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id rather be alive and drive a fiat punto though :P
american healthcare system seems to be pretty fucked, but in the end that was just fair - i mean it was ESFs "own mistake" to take this substance.
WELL OBVIOUSLY it was MPresearchs fault, so no offense ESF. but you know, judging from a financial standpoint...
ive also gotten some "clen" from MPR that i still dont know what the fuck that was.
i took a 40mcg cap of "clen" and had the worst nausea of my life for days from that. i was shaking, felt nauseous, started vomiting about 30mins after taking it. had to lay in bed for about 6 hours before i was able to some kind of function again.
had a hangover for like 2 or 3 days. really weird sh*t. id love to know what ACTUALLY was inside of there because it was damn sure no clen.
i looked damn good though, it somehow dryed me out apparently lol. maybe it was a mixture of i dont know, thyroid hormones, diuretics and a huge dose of some kind of stimulant. wtf.
tossed that shit out right after that along with any other sh*t i got from that guy. had a feeling it was all fake/underdosed anyway.
it's research stuff, that's clearly labled "not for human use" or whatever... so I doubt I'd have a case. besides, I'm not into ratting on people.
I'd rather repay the dude with $160k worth of compound fractures to his femur's, humerus', maybe destroy his knee & shoulder joints... oh, and how 'bout a 'lil jaw reconstruction?
I still have about 2 dozen bags of various products from him... most are stuff that came from batches of his "yellow caps" and I wouldn't trust to sell it to ppl. I had to do countless refunds on his Viagra when it went to the yellow caps.
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it's research stuff, that's clearly labled "not for human use" or whatever... so I doubt I'd have a case. besides, I'm not into ratting on people.
I'd rather repay the dude with $160k worth of compound fractures to his femur's, humerus', maybe destroy his knee & shoulder joints... oh, and how 'bout a 'lil jaw reconstruction?
I still have about 2 dozen bags of various products from him... most are stuff that came from batches of his "yellow caps" and I wouldn't trust to sell it to ppl. I had to do countless refunds on his Viagra when it went to the yellow caps.
yeah i didnt mean you'd have a chance in court against him. i was just intending to say that well, you consumed something that you werent meant to consume so youd have to pay for the consequences
its really fucked up from MPR tho
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It is ESF's fault because he should have stopped taking fucking drugs when he saw he'd dropped 40lb.
How the fuck do you drop 40lb and not think "Maybe I should stop fucking taking t4"?
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Will you immediately gain fat when you drop T3 even with low cals?
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Will you immediately gain fat when you drop T3 even with low cals?
You'll definately have some rebound depending on how long you ran T3....Just monitor your weight closely and slowly increase your calories every week
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Ok thanks brolz
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I was using 50mcg T3 ( 25mcg tabs ) but right now i need to change product and i will be have T3+T4 stack ( 20mcg T3 + 100mcg T4 tabs. ). How to compare it? 40mcg T3 + 200mcg T4 will be something like 50mcg T3?
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I had bloodwork prove that my t3 was legit and i stjll didnt notice much from it over dieting without it. Was not magic and even at 75mcg to 100mcg a week, i didnt notice much extra fat loss if any at all
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I had bloodwork prove that my t3 was legit and i stjll didnt notice much from it over dieting without it. Was not magic and even at 75mcg to 100mcg a week, i didnt notice much extra fat loss if any at all
huh? 5 days at 25mcg has a huge effect on me.
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huh? 5 days at 25mcg has a huge effect on me.
Like a noticeable fat loss effect?
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Like a noticeable fat loss effect?
a noticable flatness effect id guess.
however that makes no sense since 25mcg is essentially on the low side of a replacement dosage. maybe his thyroid needs 3-4 days to shut down so for 5 days he gets the equivalent of 50mcg... on 25mcg you shouldnt notice shit unless youre hypothyroid
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Like a noticeable fat loss effect?
Yes, big time. I can't do 2 sprays or my face gets too thin. I do think it's overdosed so it's more than 25mcg. Just clean up my diet a bit, and I'm good.
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Yes, big time. I can't do 2 sprays or my face gets too thin. I do think it's overdosed so it's more than 25mcg. Just clean up my diet a bit, and I'm good.
::)
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::)
You just wish you could make the magic happen as quicky as I do...
Don't hate...
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You just wish you could make the magic happen as quicky as I do...
Don't hate...
yeah we got it buddy, youre a very special snowflake. :-*
your metabolism must be utter sh*t if 25mcg of t3 (which is a REPLACEMENT DOSAGE) make your "face get too thin" lol. might even be a serious medical condition.
i bet you went on 100mg test a week as HRT and gained 40lbs of muscle in the first 6 months aswell huh?
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yeah we got it buddy, youre a very special snowflake. :-*
your metabolism must be utter sh*t if 25mcg of t3 (which is a REPLACEMENT DOSAGE) make your "face get too thin" lol. might even be a serious medical condition.
i bet you went on 100mg test a week as HRT and gained 40lbs of muscle in the first 6 months aswell huh?
Just an ecto who when lowers carbs and uses a spray of clen and t3 gets lean super quick.
Not so lucky in the gene department for test as I need a good 500mg to look the way I want. 750 max.
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Just FYI. I've been using T3 off and on for 5 years and took a 4 month break recently. My thyroid levels were on the high side of normal. Everything was functioning perfectly. Don't get too carried away, but i rebound from T3 a lot better than Test.
8)
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there are studies that show COMPLETE thyroid recovery within 4-6 weeks in ALL patients after stopping the T3 therapy theyve been on for decades
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T3 is a overrated compound in my opinion. People confuse depletion of glycogen catabolism with lipidico and muscular, so all this esteem that t3 is the best fat burner, but also a great burner muscle, both false assertions, especially the last. 50-75MCG did something to me, but it was in a stack of t3, trenbolone and clem.
The recovery is very quickly if you give the right support as follows:
- Do not restrict carbohydrates
- Supplement with iodine, taurine, tyrosine, selenium and vitamin c
- Do not use stimulants in period of recovery
That makes my thyroid function return in 3 weeks (please excuse my English, I'm Brazilian)
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Wouldn't take more than 100mcg and thats on high cals.
A friend of mine completely fucked his contest prep up by taking high dozes of t3 and t4 at the same time. Lot of mcg of both...
kid is always searching for the magic drug