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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on October 14, 2014, 09:27:04 AM
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http://www.businessinsider.com/why-obama-needs-to-rethink-his-entire-isis-strategy-2014-10
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http://www.businessinsider.com/why-obama-needs-to-rethink-his-entire-isis-strategy-2014-10
He can't rethink. He's too fucking stupid to listen to anyone.
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He can't rethink. He's too fucking stupid to listen to anyone.
I believe Obama is intentionally running intereference for these scumbags so they can win. Obama is the first Terrorist Prez we have ever had
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so why did senate vote to give obama free reign to do whatever he wants there? Mccain sure backed him!
and where is the congressional response to stop this nonsense? Oh, boehnner said he'll start in Feb or March? Splendid.
Look, obama is a bag of shit. he stinks. everything that comes from a bag of shit stinks. you're sticking your fingers into this bag of shit, whining because the ISIS pellets smell poopy. WTF? are you surprised? big shocker?
Rather, you should be looking at the senate the gave 75% approval to "do whatever you want on ISIS", or the congress that said "we need re-elections + holidays + inaugurations, THEN we will talk about this ISIS thing."
Or, place them in the same bag of shit, and never tell us to vote repub again. Cant' have it both ways here. Senate approved what obama is doing (most repubs did too) and congress just decided to STFU on their own. DOn't blame obama, blame washington (Obama + senate + congress).
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And Now Another Top Pentagon Official Has Just Spoken Out Strongly Against Obama Policy
...a second top general in as many days...
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Avatar of Norvell Rose Norvell Rose — October 14, 2014
Odierno
What’s going on in the top ranks of the U.S. military? Now that a second top general in as many days has expressed serious doubts about Obama administration policy, is some sort of concerted push-back developing in the Pentagon?
Just yesterday, Monday, Western Journalism brought you the news about a four-star Marine Corps general warning that weak border security and immigration enforcement could lead to a massive influx of Ebola-stricken immigrants.
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Gen. John Kelly, head of the U.S. Southern Command, took the bold action of stepping up his public criticism of Obama administration policy.
Now, another highly decorated military leader is taking a powerful verbal shot at the White House.
The Army’s top general is questioning Obama’s plan to reduce the size of America’s ground-combat forces. Gen. Ray Odierno, the chief of staff of the Army, said Monday that the rise of Islamic State militants and Moscow’s moves in Eastern Europe demand a rethinking of plans for reduction in troop strength.
Via the Wall Street Journal:
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The Army agreed – reluctantly — to cut the size of its force to 490,000 under the budget reductions originally approved in 2011. But as a result of subsequent White House-Congress spending battles and military budget reviews, Pentagon leaders said the Army has had to make plans to shrink even further, to 450,000 or even 420,000.
The active-duty Army now has 510,000 members, though military leaders under the direction of President Obama’s Defense Secretary, Chuck Hagel, are working to shrink the force by deactivating brigades and forcing out mid-level officers.
As Stars and Stripes reported in August:
About 550 Army majors, including some serving in Afghanistan, will soon be told they have to leave the service by next spring as part of a budget-driven downsizing of the service.
The decision to cut Army majors comes on the heels of a move to slash nearly 1,200 captains from the ranks. Army leaders were criticized at the time for giving 48 of them the bad news while they were deployed to Afghanistan.
In January, 2012, Obama announced that he U.S. military will steadily shrink the Army and Marine Corps and reduce forces in Europe. Curiously, it is now top generals in both the Army and the Marine Corps who are publicly questioning the plans and policies of their Command-in-Chief.
Read more at http://www.westernjournalism.com/now-another-top-pentagon-official-just-spoken-strongly-obama-policy/#SQpXSFsvVv0cupsR.99
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http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/10/13/top-general-worries-u-s-army-getting-too-small/?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsForth
Obama is collapsing the military
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Lol so the answer to Obamas fuck up is to send thousands more Americans to die trying to to prop up Muslim regimes and failing dictators
Maybe just pull out completely and tacitly support Assad and Iran in their efforts against the fundies. Because most Sunnis in that region actually want to live in the 12th century and only Shia and other sects are going to do anything to stop ISIS
The real fuck up here was McCain / Obama / Zionist lobby actively trying to destroy the only regimes in the area that kept ISIS in check ie Assad , Qaddafi ec
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Lol so the answer to Obamas fuck up is to send thousands more Americans to die trying to to prop up Muslim regimes and failing dictators
Maybe just pull out completely and tacitly support Assad and Iran in their efforts against the fundies. Because most Sunnis in that region actually want to live in the 12th century and only Shia and other sects are going to do anything to stop ISIS
The real fuck up here was McCain / Obama / Zionist lobby actively trying to destroy the only regimes in the area that kept ISIS in check ie Assad , Qaddafi ec
Ofagget pledged to destroy Isis remember?
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Ofagget pledged to destroy Isis remember?
You promised to delete your account remember?
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Ofagget pledged to destroy Isis remember?
Well he was lying or a complete idiot, and he's obviously not an idiot
it's impossible to destroy Islamic terrorist groups in sunni tribal areas. The only thing you can do is prevent them from gaining too much power by supporting dictators like Assad with secret police to take them in the middle of the night and pull out their fingernails and kill their families. And it's too late to do that since McCain/Clinton/Kerry pandered to the Zionists, Saudis and Turkey by destroying those regimes
the American public should be forced to watch Restrepo before voting for war mongers to waste more money in the ME
what we should be doing is expelling Somalis and other pro ISIS refugees from the US and taking those troops from the ME and militarizing the southern border.. but obviously that will never happen
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Well he was lying or a complete idiot, and he's obviously not an idiot
it's impossible to destroy Islamic terrorist groups in sunni tribal areas. The only thing you can do is prevent them from gaining too much power by supporting dictators like Assad with secret police to take them in the middle of the night and pull out their fingernails and kill their families.
the American public should be forced to watch Restrepo before voting for war mongers to waste more money in the ME
what we should be doing is expelling Somalis and other pro ISIS refugees from the US and taking those troops from the ME and militarizing the southern border.. but obviously that will never happen
I agree a lot w that - remember when I was trashed for supporting Assad over Obama a year or so ago? Obama is a terrorist and friend to terrorists - he loves these radicals and savages.
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Assad is the devil you know...never a guy to upset the apple cart to much. We knew what groups he supported, we knew where the money and arms went. Now we have chaos... the nutbags thrive on chaos.
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I agree a lot w that - remember when I was trashed for supporting Assad over Obama a year or so ago? Obama is a terrorist and friend to terrorists - he loves these radicals and savages.
It seems that all he cares about is appearing to 'do something' regardless of how ineffective it is, something common to many bad executives. then takes credit when things work out despite his direct orders (look how the Maersk Alabama incident was spun in the media to make him look 'commanding' despite what actually happened)
we fucked up completely in Iraq and it's going to end up like Taliban controlled Afghanistan
the real disaster is that now millions more refugees from those countries will swamp Europe and the US (and many of those fleeing the reality of a sharia state will continue to send money back to the same people they're escaping)
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I think the Afghans were ready to have us leave and then Isis fucked up all of Iraq....they signed that deal quick. My last tour was all about shutting everything down...they couldn't get rid of our shit fast enough and now we're in A-Stan pretty permanently.
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I agree a lot w that - remember when I was trashed for supporting Assad over Obama a year or so ago?
Dude. No. Assad was machine gunning crowds of protesters. And he's said some naughty things about our allies. He's not cool. Please don't say you "support" him. You're allowed to hate both him and Obama :)
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Dude. No. Assad was machine gunning crowds of protesters. And he's said some naughty things about our allies. He's not cool. Please don't say you "support" him. You're allowed to hate both him and Obama :)
Assad was in a war against the radical crazies that Obama supports. If Assad has his way - not much changes in the region. If Obama has his way - the entire world is in flames.
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Assad was in a war against the radical crazies that Obama supports. If Assad has his way - not much changes in the region. If Obama has his way - the entire world is in flames.
who, the rebels? I thought they were our friends now? we're giving them half a billion in guns and $ to fight ISIS?
I thought rebels were evil, assad wasted protesters, and ISIS beheads reporters. There are no good guys here.
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I don't know who "we" are.....yeah some of the generals were secular...but they used to be Assad's generals...Bathists that hated us. They saw the writing on the wall around the middle east and figured they'd get a jump on deposing him. As it turns out they were wrong. It allowed the nuts to flock to the latest war and now there are no real good guys. We could arm them but that shit really won't work and I have a very hard time seeing any Syrians fighting outside Syria...except the Isis nutbags of course. The simple truth is Obama had an opportunity to keep 10-25K troops in Iraq and could not or would not do it.
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I don't know who "we" are.....yeah some of the generals were secular...but they used to be Assad's generals...Bathists that hated us. They saw the writing on the wall around the middle east and figured they'd get a jump on deposing him. As it turns out they were wrong. It allowed the nuts to flock to the latest war and now there are no real good guys. We could arm them but that shit really won't work and I have a very hard time seeing any Syrians fighting outside Syria...except the Isis nutbags of course. The simple truth is Obama had an opportunity to keep 10-25K troops in Iraq and could not or would not do it.
how could he have done that
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how could he have done that
Why? Why the fck? Why keep 25,000 of our troops in that sandy shithole?
Bush said we'd be out. Obama honored that. It's their country.
yes, there will always be an al-Q, an ISIS, whoever, the big gang of bad guys. Essentially a rebel group that wants to blow shit up. But the #1 option should always be contain them in the country, let them fight it out with the local military, and keep both of their numbers down.
it's like having fleas in your house. And having roaches in your house. Only instead of getting bitten up, or living in poisonous bug spray, you can simply leave for the weekend, let them eat/kill each other, then you show up on Monday morning and stomp on whatever 5 bugs lived thru it all.
Let them fight in syria. let them fight in iraq. Goodness knows, another decade, we'll be at war in one of those shitholes. Why not cut the number of military-capable men in half, so our troops have an easier time last time. Wasn't the iraq-iran civil war the best possible thing for Bush's Iraq invasion? Think about it... their $ was gone, their troops were tired. We got to see all their tricks.
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Why? Why the fck? Why keep 25,000 of our troops in that sandy shithole?
Bush said we'd be out. Obama honored that. It's their country.
::)
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why in the world did Bush sogn the SOFA agreement to withdraw? I mean, he can give all the speeches he wants, but why go over there, dodge shoes, and agree to leave?
everyone shitting on obama for keeping bush's word... WTF?
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The intent was always to negotiate a new SOFA. Everyone who isn't an Obama lackey understands that.
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The intent was always to negotiate a new SOFA. Everyone who isn't an Obama lackey understands that.
Oh, so Bush signed an agreement and intended not to honor it?
Sorry, I don't believe that. Bush was a man of honor. "INTENT"? Weak soup, man.
I guess we missed the memo from the Bush White House saying he "intended" the next president to break his contract. WTF is obama thinking, honoring a former president's word?
LOL even you have to admit that shit is weak. "The INTENT was to break bush's agreement..."
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Oh, so Bush signed an agreement and intended not to honor it?
Sorry, I don't believe that. Bush was a man of honor. "INTENT"? Weak soup, man.
I guess we missed the memo from the Bush White House saying he "intended" the next president to break his contract. WTF is obama thinking, honoring a former president's word?
LOL even you have to admit that shit is weak. "The INTENT was to break bush's agreement..."
The SOFA had an expiration date, so he didn't break it. He intended to negotiate a new agreement when the existing SOFA expired by its own terms.
And you have the gall to call people stupid?? Holy smokes . . . .
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The SOFA had an expiration date, so he didn't break it. He intended to negotiate a new agreement when the existing SOFA expired by its own terms.
And you have the gall to call people stupid?? Holy smokes . . . .
Link? What was the SOFA expiration date? And why did Bush miss re-negotiating it? And if this is actually true, why didn't he follow thru with breaking his word. And why sign something he didn't intend to honor?
Seriously, I don't think you'll answer these. Or you'll post a vague link with nothing about "Bush planned on breaking the agreement on this date, but didn't for this reason".
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Link? What was the SOFA expiration date? And why did Bush miss re-negotiating it? And if this is actually true, why didn't he follow thru with breaking his word. And why sign something he didn't intend to honor?
Seriously, I don't think you'll answer these. Or you'll post a vague link with nothing about "Bush planned on breaking the agreement on this date, but didn't for this reason".
I'm not posting squat for you, you lying liar. Do your own friggin homework. I'm just highlighting how you misrepresented the facts, again.
I don't even know what to say. I should probably start reading more of what you post on here. I know you lie all the time, but I didn't realize the magnitude of the BS you post on here. lol
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I'm not posting squat for you, you lying liar. Do your own friggin homework. I'm just highlighting how you misrepresented the facts, again.
I don't even know what to say. I should probably start reading more of what you post on here. I know you lie all the time, but I didn't realize the magnitude of the BS you post on here. lol
???
Yeah, I kinda figured you wouldn't answer that. Cool, no worries, it sounded weird anyway. "intended to break it"?
Link? What was the SOFA expiration date? And why did Bush miss re-negotiating it? And if this is actually true, why didn't he follow thru with breaking his word. And why sign something he didn't intend to honor?
Seriously, I don't think you'll answer these. Or you'll post a vague link with nothing about "Bush planned on breaking the agreement on this date, but didn't for this reason".
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Obama’s war on Islamic State militants finally has a name: Operation Inherent Resolve
Yahoo News ^ | 10-15-2014 | Olivier Knox
Posted on 10/15/2014 1:00:08 PM by Citizen Zed
Two months after American bombs and missiles began pounding fighters of the so-called Islamic State, President Barack Obama’s undeclared war in Iraq and Syria finally has a name: Operation Inherent Resolve.
The Wall Street Journal had reported on Oct. 3 that the name had been considered and rejected, with one unnamed military officer saying “it is just kind of bleh.”
The long search for a name had sparked a flurry of jokes on Twitter, where one leading tongue-in-cheek suggestion was that it be called “Operation Hey Wasn’t That My Humvee” – a reference to U.S. airstrikes hitting Islamic State fighters using American equipment captured from Iraqi troops.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
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Oh, so Bush signed an agreement and intended not to honor it?
Sorry, I don't believe that. Bush was a man of honor. "INTENT"? Weak soup, man.
I guess we missed the memo from the Bush White House saying he "intended" the next president to break his contract. WTF is obama thinking, honoring a former president's word?
LOL even you have to admit that shit is weak. "The INTENT was to break bush's agreement..."
You can parrot this shit all you want. The deal was that combat troops would be out by 2011. A stabilizing force was ALWAYS supposed to be left there. We had plans on what bases and numbers of troops etc. We figured 25k...the Iraqi's figured 15k, a number that could be sold to the masses. Obama wanted 3k.....not feasible politically in Iraq. His failure to do so....no matter how much Obama cock u want to suck 240...he failed. Nothing to do with Bush......
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You can parrot this shit all you want. The deal was that combat troops would be out by 2011. A stabilizing force was ALWAYS supposed to be left there. We had plans on what bases and numbers of troops etc. We figured 25k...the Iraqi's figured 15k, a number that could be sold to the masses. Obama wanted 3k.....not feasible politically in Iraq. His failure to do so....no matter how much Obama cock u want to suck 240...he failed. Nothing to do with Bush......
Thank you.
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You can parrot this shit all you want. The deal was that combat troops would be out by 2011. A stabilizing force was ALWAYS supposed to be left there. We had plans on what bases and numbers of troops etc. We figured 25k...the Iraqi's figured 15k, a number that could be sold to the masses. Obama wanted 3k.....not feasible politically in Iraq. His failure to do so....no matter how much Obama cock u want to suck 240...he failed. Nothing to do with Bush......
Nope, beach bum said " He intended to negotiate a new agreement when the existing SOFA expired by its own terms."
I want to know why he said that, and what prevented Bush from negotiating the new agreement. Cause that part sounds very made up.
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Obama’s war on Islamic State militants finally has a name: Operation Inherent Resolve
We are so fd
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I have posted this atleast 5 friggen times....somehow 240 tries to pretend to be neutral by dragging in Bush. This all Barry being political Barry...nothing to do with common sense. I sure as hell didn't want another tour in Iraq....but militarily it made sense.
Operation uh...um....fuck what was I doing, oh yeah..Iraq...ah....fuck, war is hard....can't I just go play golf with my bath house friends.
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Obama’s war on Islamic State militants finally has a name: Operation Inherent Resolve
We are so fd
that is the worst name in history. Operation Erectile dysfunction
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http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/10/14/5-key-implications-if-baghdad-falls-to-isis/3/
The U.S. will also face a dilemma: at the very same time this administration has been sidling up to Iran and trying to strike a deal over its nuclear weapons program, we very well may be faced with calls from our longtime allies in the region, almost all Sunni, for assistance. And then we have Turkey, which, as a NATO partner, we have treaty obligations to honor.
And faced with a nuclear Iran amidst a growing sectarian war, many Sunni countries will start their own crash nuclear programs in response, leading to the regional proliferation of nuclear weapons. No sane person would contend that a nuclear arms race in the Middle East would be a benefit to our own national security (though undoubtedly there will be some D.C. foreign policy “experts” who will dismiss its importance).
The coming days and weeks in the fight for Baghdad are fraught with enormous implications for the U.S. And yet our ability to influence those events is rapidly waning.
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Didn't big gay Vince say they were all the same on some other thread....
2) The Great Reconciliation between jihadist groups will begin
Much of the Obama administration’s anti-ISIS efforts have been trying to leverage other “vetted moderate” groups in Syria against ISIS, with some “smart set” thinkers even advocating engaging “moderate Al-Qaeda” to that end. We are already seeing jihadist groups gravitating towards ISIS, such as the announcement this week by Pakistani Taliban leaders pledging their allegiance to the Islamic State. Other groups of younger jihadis are breaking away from Al-Qaeda franchises in North Africa and defecting to ISIS. Despite bitter rivalries between ISIS and other jihadist groups in Syria, namely Al-Qaeda’s official Syrian affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra, these other groups will be hard-pressed to deny ISIS’ caliphate claims if they do take Baghdad. In that part of the world, nothing succeeds like success. If Baghdad falls, jihadist groups, some of whom have been openly hostile or remained neutral, will quickly align behind ISIS. And the horrid sound coming out of Washington, D.C., will be of foreign policy paradigms imploding.
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Nope, beach bum said " He intended to negotiate a new agreement when the existing SOFA expired by its own terms."
I want to know why he said that, and what prevented Bush from negotiating the new agreement. Cause that part sounds very made up.
What I meant to say was "we" (i.e., the new president) were supposed to negotiate a new agreement. The SOFA expired in 2011, so Bush didn't violate anything. We were always supposed to negotiate a new SOFA when the one Bush signed expired. Headhunter just explained it to you. Are you really this stupid or just trolling?
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I have posted this atleast 5 friggen times....somehow 240 tries to pretend to be neutral by dragging in Bush. This all Barry being political Barry...nothing to do with common sense. I sure as hell didn't want another tour in Iraq....but militarily it made sense.
Operation uh...um....fuck what was I doing, oh yeah..Iraq...ah....fuck, war is hard....can't I just go play golf with my bath house friends.
If we had left a division in Iraq we wouldn't even be talking about ISIS in Iraq right now.
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This one is my favorite......can we go right from impeaching Obama to life imprisonment for complete disregard of his presidential duty.
3) What of U.S. personnel in Iraq?
The US Embassy in Baghdad is the largest embassy on the planet. And after Obama sent 350 more U.S. military personnel to guard the U.S. Embassy last month, there are now more than 1,100 US service members in Baghdad protecting the embassy and the airport. That doesn’t include embassy personnel, American aid workers, and reporters also in Baghdad. ISIS doesn’t have to capture the airport to prevent flights from taking off there (remember Hamas rockets from Gaza prompting the temporary closure of Israel’s Ben Gurion Airport this past summer). If flights can’t get out of Baghdad, how will the State Department and Pentagon evacuate U.S. personnel? An image like the last helicopter out of Saigon would be of considerable propaganda value to ISIS and other jihadist groups. Former CNN reporter Peter Arnett, who witnessed the fall of Saigon in April 1975, raised this possibility back in June. It’s not like the U.S. has prestige to spare internationally, and the fall of Baghdad will mark the beginning of the end of American influence in the Middle East, much like the case in Southest Asia in 1975.
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If we had left a division in Iraq we wouldn't even be talking about ISIS in Iraq right now.
Correct....3k worth of dudes can't defend themselves. 15k, a number Maliki wanted and could sell to his parliament, could still conduct offensive ops periodically and continue to train the Iraqi military.
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Correct....3k worth of dudes can't defend themselves. 15k, a number Maliki wanted and could sell to his parliament, could still conduct offensive ops periodically and continue to train the Iraqi military.
Failbama is doing this all intentionally since he supports ISIS taking over.
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The next president will never get us out of this...Hil won't even try and a Repub will have to just starting bombing the shit out of everybody.
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Military & Defense More: Syria
The Official Name For The War On ISIS Was Rejected 2 Weeks Ago
An EA-6B coming from Iraq lands on the flight deck of the US Navy aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush on Aug. 10 in the Persian Gulf.
After two months of airstrikes against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, the US-led coalition has a name: "Inherent Resolve."
Interestingly, the name had previously been rejected for a multitude of reasons, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal two weeks ago.
"It's just kind of bleh," an unnamed military officer told The Journal. An unnamed senior official further said the name was merely a placeholder that had never been considered to be the actual name for the overall operation.
The initial failure of the name of the operation was multifaceted. For some officers, Inherent Resolve failed to evoke the sense of the Middle East. Other officers rejected the name on the grounds that it failed to capture the sense of the international coalition that had joined the US in operations.
Military operations have been named by the US military since at least World War II. The lack of a name for the operations in Syria and Iraq had come as a break with 70 years of military tradition.
The issue of a lack of a name for the operations had been raised since airstrikes first started in Iraq. In August, Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Adm. John Kirby said there was no "good reason" for the lack of an operational name.
Operation Inherent Resolve has targeted positions of the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, throughout Syria and Iraq for the past two months. On Tuesday and Wednesday, the US-led coalition carried out 18 strikes against the militants in the two countries.
The strikes focused on ISIS positions around the town of Kobani in Syria, while in Iraq the airstrikes hit ISIS militants by the critical Baiji oil refinery plant and the Haditha Dam.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/military-rejects-potential-operation-name-2014-10#ixzz3GEvvYB1D
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http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeffrey-meyer/2014/10/15/tom-brokaw-mocks-obamas-isis-coalition-air-quotes?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=marketing&utm_term=facebook&utm_content=facebook&utm_campaign=brokaw-obama-isis
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You can parrot this shit all you want. The deal was that combat troops would be out by 2011. A stabilizing force was ALWAYS supposed to be left there. We had plans on what bases and numbers of troops etc. We figured 25k...the Iraqi's figured 15k, a number that could be sold to the masses. Obama wanted 3k.....not feasible politically in Iraq. His failure to do so....no matter how much Obama cock u want to suck 240...he failed. Nothing to do with Bush......
didn't "he fail" because Iraq would not agree to give the remaining troops immunity and the Iraqi government wouldn't allow it?
If that is the case how exactly would we have stayed other than by force over a sovereign nation?
"When the Americans asked for immunity, the Iraqi side answered that it was not possible," al-Maliki said in an October 2011 news conference. "The discussions over the number of trainers and the place of training stopped. Now that the issue of immunity was decided and that no immunity to be given, the withdrawal has started."
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/24/martha-raddatz/obama-wanted-keep-10000-troops-iraq-abcs-raddatz-c/
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didn't "he fail" because Iraq would not agree to give the remaining troops immunity and the Iraqi government wouldn't allow it?
If that is the case how exactly would we have stayed other than by force over a sovereign nation?
"When the Americans asked for immunity, the Iraqi side answered that it was not possible," al-Maliki said in an October 2011 news conference. "The discussions over the number of trainers and the place of training stopped. Now that the issue of immunity was decided and that no immunity to be given, the withdrawal has started."
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/24/martha-raddatz/obama-wanted-keep-10000-troops-iraq-abcs-raddatz-c/
Lol. Really?
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One thing that I don't get, weren't we replacing those troops with private contractors? (who cost 10x as much per head)
that way Obama could tell his low-information vote base that he 'brought the troops home' with a straight face but we still had a presence there, albeit a much more expensive one.
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Lol. Really?
I guess you can't read
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One thing that I don't get, weren't we replacing those troops with private contractors? (who cost 10x as much per head)
that way Obama could tell his low-information vote base that he 'brought the troops home' with a straight face but we still had a presence there, albeit a much more expensive one.
how could we keep private contractor there if we could't keep actual troops there
we'd still the the Iraq governments permission to have anyone there
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/on-outskirts-of-baghdad-islamic-states-advances-raise-tensions/2014/10/16/4967560e-53d4-11e4-ba4b-f6333e2c0453_story.html
Shambles
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U.S. Humanitarian Aid Going to ISIS
Not only are foodstuffs, medical supplies—even clinics—going to ISIS, the distribution networks are paying ISIS ‘taxes’ and putting ISIS people on their payrolls.
GAZIANTEP, Turkey — While U.S. warplanes strike at the militants of the so-called Islamic State in both Syria and Iraq, truckloads of U.S. and Western aid has been flowing into territory controlled by the jihadists, assisting them to build their terror-inspiring “Caliphate.”
The aid—mainly food and medical equipment—is meant for Syrians displaced from their hometowns, and for hungry civilians. It is funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development, European donors, and the United Nations. Whether it continues is now the subject of anguished debate among officials in Washington and European. The fear is that stopping aid would hurt innocent civilians and would be used for propaganda purposes by the militants, who would likely blame the West for added hardship.
The Bible says if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him something to drink—doing so will “heap burning coals” of shame on his head. But there is no evidence that the militants of the Islamic State, widely known as ISIS or ISIL, feel any sense of disgrace or indignity (and certainly not gratitude) receiving charity from their foes.
Quite the reverse, the aid convoys have to pay off ISIS emirs (leaders) for the convoys to enter the eastern Syrian extremist strongholds of Raqqa and Deir ez-Zor, providing yet another income stream for ISIS militants, who are funding themselves from oil smuggling, extortion and the sale of whatever they can loot, including rare antiquities from museums and archaeological sites.
“The convoys have to be approved by ISIS and you have to pay them: the bribes are disguised and itemized as transportation costs,” says an aid coordinator who spoke to The Daily Beast on the condition he not be identified in this article. The kickbacks are either paid by foreign or local non-governmental organizations tasked with distributing the aid, or by the Turkish or Syrian transportation companies contracted to deliver it.
“What are we doing here helping their fighters, who we are bombing, to be treated so they can fight again?”
And there are fears the aid itself isn’t carefully monitored enough, with some sold off on the black market or used by ISIS to win hearts and minds by feeding its fighters and its subjects. At a minimum the aid means ISIS doesn’t have to divert cash from its war budget to help feed the local population or the displaced persons, allowing it to focus its resources exclusively on fighters and war making, say critics of the aid.
One of the striking differences between ISIS and terror groups of the past is its desire to portray the territory it has conquered as a well organized and smoothly functioning state. “The soldiers of Allah do not liberate a village, town or city, only to abandon its residents and ignore their needs,” declares the latest issue of the group’s slick online magazine, “Dabiq.” Elsewhere in the publication are pictures of slaughtered Kurdish soldiers and a gruesome photograph of American journalist Steven Sotloff’s severed head resting on top of his body. But this article shows ISIS restoring electricity in Raqqah, running a home for the elderly and a cancer treatment facility in Ninawa, and cleaning streets in other towns.
Last year, a polio outbreak in Deir ez-Zor raised concerns throughout the region about the spread of an epidemic. The World Health Organization worked with the Syrian government and with opposition groups to try to carry out an immunization campaign. This has continued. In response to a query by The Daily Beast, a WHO spokesperson said, “Our information indicates that vaccination campaigns have been successfully carried out by local health workers in IS-controlled territory.”
“I am alarmed that we are providing support for ISIS governance,” says Jonathan Schanzer, a Mideast expert with the Washington D.C.-based think tank Foundation for Defense of Democracies. “By doing so we are indemnifying the militants by satisfying the core demands of local people, who could turn on ISIS if they got frustrated.”
U.S. and Western relief agencies have been caught before in an aid dilemma when it comes to the war on terror. Last December, the Overseas Development Institute, an independent British think tank focusing on international development and humanitarian issues, reported that aid agencies in Somalia had been paying militants from the al Qaeda offshoot al-Shabab for access to areas under their control during the 2011 famine.
Al-Shabab demanded from the agencies what it described as “registration fees” of up to $10,000. And in many cases al-Shabab insisted on distributing the aid, keeping much of it for itself, according to ODI. The think tank cited al-Shabab’s diversion of food aid in the town of Baidoa, where it kept between half and two-thirds of the food for its own fighters. The researchers noted the al Qaeda affiliate developed a highly sophisticated system of monitoring and co-opting the aid agencies, even setting up a "Humanitarian Co-ordination Office."
Something similar appears to be underway now in the Syrian provinces of Raqqa and Deir ez-Zor.
Aid coordinators with NGOs partnering USAID and other Western government agencies, including Britain’s Department for International Development, say ISIS insist that the NGOs, foreign and local, employ people ISIS approves on their staffs inside Syria. “There is always at least one ISIS person on the payroll; they force people on us,” says an aid coordinator. “And when a convoy is being prepared, the negotiations go through them about whether the convoy can proceed. They contact their emirs and a price is worked out. We don’t have to wrangle with individual ISIS field commanders once approval is given to get the convoy in, as the militants are highly hierarchical.” He adds: “None of the fighters will dare touch it, if an emir has given permission.”
That isn’t the case with other Syrian rebel groups, where arguments over convoys can erupt at checkpoints at main entry points into Syria, where aid is unloaded from Turkish tractor-trailers and re-loaded into Syrian ones.
Many aid workers are uncomfortable with what’s happening. “A few months ago we delivered a mobile clinic for a USAID-funded NGO,” says one, who declined to be named. “A few of us debated the rights and wrongs of this. The clinic was earmarked for the treatment of civilians, but we all know that wounded ISIS fighters could easily be treated as well. So what are we doing here helping their fighters, who we are bombing, to be treated so they can fight again?”
What becomes even more bizarre is that while aid is still going into ISIS-controlled areas, only a little is going into Kurdish areas in northeast Syria. About every three or four months there is a convoy into the key city of Qamishli. Syrian Kurds, who are now defending Kobani with the support of U.S. warplanes, have long complained about the lack of international aid. Last November, tellingly, Syrian Kurds complained that Syria’s Kurdistan was not included in a U.N. polio vaccination campaign. U.N. agencies took the position that polio vaccines should go through the Syrian Red Crescent via Damascus when it came to the Kurds.
The origins of the aid programs pre-date President Barack Obama’s decision to “degrade and defeat” ISIS, but they have carried on without major review. The aid push was to reach anyone in need. A senior State Department official with detailed knowledge of current aid programs confirmed to The Daily Beast that U.S. government funded relief is still going into Raqqa and Deir Ez-Zor. He declined to estimate the quantity. But an aid coordinator, when asked, responded: “A lot .”
The State Department official said he, too, was conflicted about the programs. “Is this helping the militants by allowing them to divert money they would have to spend on food? If aid wasn’t going in, would they let people starve? And is it right for us to withhold assistance and punish civilians? Would the militants turn around,. as al-Shabab did when many agencies withdrew from Somalia, and blame the West for starvation and hunger? Are we helping indirectly the militants to build their Caliphate? I wrestle with this.”
Western NGO partners of USAID and other Western agencies declined to respond to Daily Beast inquiries about international relief going to ISIS areas, citing the complexity of the issue and noting its delicacy.
Mideast analyst Schanzer dismisses the notion that ISIS can use an aid shutdown as leverage in its PR campaign: “I think this is false. In areas they control everyone understands they are a brutal organization. This is their basic weakness and by pushing in aid we are curtailing the chances of an internal revolt, which is the best chance you have of bringing down ISIS.”
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/21/isis-video-america-s-air-dropped-weapons-now-in-our-hands.html
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Losing to the Islamic State
By David Ignatius - October 24, 2014
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AMMAN, Jordan -- Jalal al-Gaood, one of the tribal leaders the U.S. has been cultivating in hopes of rolling back extremists in Iraq, grimly describes how his hometown in Anbar province was forced to surrender this week to fighters from the Islamic State.
The extremists were moving Wednesday toward Gaood's town of Al-Zwaiha, the stronghold of his Albu Nimr clan just east of the Euphrates River. The attacking force had roughly 200 fighters and about 30 armed trucks. Al-Zwaiha's defenders were running out of ammunition and food, and wondered if they should make a deal with the marauding jihadists.
Gaood, a 53-year-old businessman in Amman, talked through the night with tribal elders back home. He says he tried repeatedly to reach Gen. John Allen, who is the U.S. special envoy for Iraq and Syria, to plead for emergency help. By the time Allen got the message, it was too late. Urgent warnings that the town was about to be overrun also went to the Iraqi army commander at nearby Al-Asad air base. There was no response except for a helicopter that took surveillance pictures and then left.
In the early hours of Thursday, Gaood advised the local leaders they had no alternative but to negotiate a truce.
Before dawn, a convoy left for Haditha, to the north, with 60 cars carrying local police, soldiers and former members of the U.S.-created tribal militia known as the "Awakening." If they had stayed in the town, they would have been massacred when the extremists took control.
"This morning, everything is finished," Gaood told me sadly Thursday at his office here. The Islamic State now controls the town, which straddles a strategic highway. The extremists' domination of the entire province is one step closer.
What makes this story chilling is that Gaood was one of the Sunni leaders the U.S. was hoping could organize resistance in Anbar. He was one of two dozen Iraqi tribal elders whom Allen met when he visited in early October.
Gaood says he warned then that without urgent help, "We are going to have to give up the fight."
"Gen. Allen said, 'I will put you in touch with someone in Centcom.' But it never happened," Gaood says.
Military campaigns often start slowly, and that has certainly been the case with President Obama's pledge to "degrade and ultimately destroy" the Islamic State. When Allen visited tribal leaders in Amman, he cautioned that he was in "listening mode" while the U.S. prepared its strategy. The U.S. presentation was "vague," says Gaood.
"Every time the Iraqis meet with Americans, they just take notes."
Sitting next to Gaood during the interview is Zaydan al-Jibouri, a 50-year-old sheik of another leading tribe. He frankly admits that his fighters have joined ex-Baathists and former military officers in siding with the Islamic State. "Why do you blame us in Anbar for joining ISIS [the Islamic State]?" he asks. "The ones who went with ISIS did so because of persecution" by the Shiite-led government of former Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.
"The Sunni community has two options," Jibouri continues. "Fight against ISIS and allow Iran and its militias to rule us, or do the opposite. We chose ISIS for only one reason. ISIS only kills you. The Iraqi government kills you, and rapes your women." That sectarian rage and hunger for vengeance appear to animate Sunnis across Iraq.
Jibouri explains that the Islamic State was able to mobilize so quickly because it had planted "sleeper cells" in the Sunni regions. These hidden agents are mostly under 25; they grew up in the years of the insurgency and American occupation, watching as their fathers were killed or taken off to prison. "These men were brought up in the culture of vendetta and revenge," he says.
Gaood agrees that when the jihadists swept into the nearby town of Hit, 1,000 of these sleepers suddenly appeared, shattering local security.
If there's a ray of hope in the chilling accounts provided by Gaood and Jibouri, it's that even a man who says he's siding with the Islamic State still says he wants U.S. help, so long as it comes with protections for Iraq's Sunni community. "We want to create a strategic relationship with the Americans," Jibouri says, arguing that such a political deal is "the light at the end of the tunnel."
Yet when asked about the U.S. plan to create a national guard for the Sunnis, Jibouri scoffs that it's "wishful thinking" because Iraq's Shiites and Kurds will never agree. Until Sunni rights are respected, he says, "we will not allow the world to sleep."
davidignatius@washpost.com
(c) 2014, Washington Post Writers Group
Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/10/24/losing_to_the_islamic_state_124415.html#ixzz3H41BjrmZ
Follow us: @RCP_Articles on Twitter
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The West is waging a 'CNN war' in Syria as ISIL makes gains in Iraq
The Telegraph ^ | 10/25/2014 | By Sofia Barbarani, Erbil and Richard Spencer, Middle East Correspondent
Posted on October 26, 2014 6:42:23 PM EDT by SeekAndFind
On the barren wastes of Mount Sinjar, the Yazidis are once more surrounded and fighting for their lives. "We saw Isil, there are daily clashes with Isil. Today and yesterday there was heavy fighting," said one stranded Yazidi man, Dre'i Shamo, last week. "The situation is very tragic and critical."
Further south, the advance of the jihadists of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant on Baghdad continues, slower than before but still with no sign of a reversal of fortune. Another district fell last week, after a major military base the week before, while scores more innocent civilians have died in a rise in bombings in the city itself.
The jihadists have also reached Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province and the last major city in western Iraq not in Isil's hands.
The world's attention has been focused on the medium-sized Kurdish town of Kobane, on the Syria-Turkey border, whose accessibility has provided countless opportunities for telegenic news coverage of American air strikes, which have multiplied in size and number. But Kobane is a secondary focus of the war that has been waging in Syria for more than three years; and that war is itself supposed to be secondary in strategic heft for America and its allies, including Britain.
They have deemed Iraq the first target of the fight against Isil. Yet the number of air strikes in supposedly less significant Syria has now reached double that in Iraq, as America and its allies seek to bolster Kobane's defences.
Analysts and some Iraqis now wonder whether President Barack Obama's declared strategy in the Middle East has been abandoned in favour of pursuing a short-term agenda dictated by the news agenda: that the "CNN factor was at play",
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
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http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-isis-syria-rebels-assad-2014-10
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http://www.businessinsider.com/obamas-current-isis-plan-is-doomed-to-fail-2014-10
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/30/world/middleeast/mounting-crises-raise-questions-on-capacity-of-obamas-team.html?_r=0
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Skip to comments.
Obama fights Ebola, not ISIS, retreats on battlefield but wages war against weather
Fox News ^ | October 28, 2014 | Pete Hegseth
Posted on 10/29/2014 10:58:54 AM by NYer
What are we to make of a president who won’t fight a terrorist army — but will deploy 3,000 Marines to fight Ebola?
An administration that pre-emptively announces troop withdrawals while, in the next breath, declares global warming the greatest threat to America?
A White House that won’t make a single phone call to free a decorated Marine in Mexico — but will trade five Taliban terrorists with American blood on their hands for a likely deserter?
Our “ambivalent-American” leadership lacks the moral foundation — let alone moral compass — to distinguish between right and wrong, good and bad, righteousness and evil.
In my “infantryman” brain — having faced Islamists in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay — these comparisons just don’t compute.
Why would we definitively rule out deploying forces to fight radical Islamists but rush to deploy them to fight a virus?
Why do we retreat on the battlefield but charge full speed against the weather?
And why can’t we distinguish between valor and desertion?
These things make no sense to me, and to common-sense-led Americans everywhere.
But then I channel my “Ivy League” brain — having spent six years combined at Princeton and Harvard — and it suddenly makes sense.
I went to school with Barack Obama, John Kerry and Susan Rice. I heard the same lectures, sat in the same small groups and had the same classmates — not literally, but figuratively. President Obama and company are part of the same “educated” class, making their reaction to today’s chaotic, complicated and dangerous world painfully predictable.
A great many of President Obama’s actions and policies result in diminished American leadership and power, directly or indirectly undermining America’s stature, economy and military for decades to come.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
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Are you trying to piss me off....
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Are you trying to piss me off....
No - just relaying what I read and hear.
Those very close to this are very upset - ill leave it at that
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Holy shit :D
Like twenty posts in a row, double the dose of your prozac bro.
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Holy shit :D
Like twenty posts in a row, double the dose of your prozac bro.
Yeah - cause lib-faggets only want to talk abortion and gay marriage. The adults here talk about real deal stuff
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Yeah - cause lib-faggets only want to talk abortion and gay marriage. The adults here talk about real deal stuff
Ya like Obama's wife's looks?
No one cares bro, no one is going to read your fourty copy and paste posts. You could post a paragraph explaining your position, but that would require you reading more than the headline.
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Ya like Obama's wife's looks?
No one cares bro, no one is going to read your fourty copy and paste posts. You could post a paragraph explaining your position, but that would require you reading more than the headline.
Hey Canuk - go freeze your balls off up north while self diagnosing your illnesses - the rest of us actually care about the news .
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/30/sources-former-guantanamo-detainees-suspected-joining-isis-other-groups-in/
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http://www.ijreview.com/2014/10/195263-set-right-leg-fire-survivors-isis-massacre-recount-dodged-almost-certain-death
JAYVEE leauge
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Hey Canuk - go freeze your balls off up north while self diagnosing your illnesses - the rest of us actually care about the news .
Ya it's really news ::)
it's in shambles is it? not enough americans dying for you?
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Ya it's really news ::)
it's in shambles is it? not enough americans dying for you?
yeah, I dunno if "in shambles" woudl describe it.
we aren't losing troops. we're spending minimal $. We're letting locals deal with the bloodshed on their own lands. ISIS is still over there, despite lies from congressman trying to scare people. We haven't been attacked, and they're being killed/stripped of $/equipment as our military leadership sees fit.
IMO, "in shambles" means they're blowing up shit in USA, richer than ever, pulling off 911's.
Again, what would you be doing different, 333386?
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IMO, "in shambles" means they're blowing up shit in USA, richer than ever, pulling off 911's.
None of that happened after the USA under Bush (with support from the Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Biden) invaded Iraq, yet that didn't prevent the stupid libtards from saying that it was worse than Vietnam.
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Skip to comments.
Military Upset with White House 'Micromanagement' of ISIS War
The Daily Beast ^ | October 31, 2014 | Josh Rogin and Eli Lake
Posted on 10/31/2014 9:47:30 AM by C19fan
Top military leaders in the Pentagon and in the field are growing increasingly frustrated by the tight constraints the White House has placed on the plans to fight ISIS and train a new Syrian rebel army.
As the American-led battle against ISIS stretches into its fourth month, the generals and Pentagon officials leading the air campaign and preparing to train Syrian rebels are working under strict White House orders to keep the war contained within policy limits. The National Security Council has given precise instructions on which rebels can be engaged, who can be trained, and what exactly those fighters will do when they return to Syria. Most of the rebels to be trained by the U.S. will never be sent to fight against ISIS.
Making matters worse, military officers and civilian Pentagon leaders tell The Daily Beast, is the ISIS war's decision-making process, run by National Security Advisor Susan Rice. It's been manic and obsessed with the tiniest of details. Officials talk of sudden and frequent meetings of the National Security Council and the so-called "Principals Committee" of top defense, intelligence, and foreign policy officials (an NSC and three PCs in one week this month); a barrage of questions from the NSC to the agencies that create mountains of paperwork for overworked staffers; and NSC insistence on deciding minor issues even at the operational level.
(Excerpt) Read more at thedailybeast.com ...
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None of that happened after the USA under Bush (with support from the Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Biden) invaded Iraq, yet that didn't prevent the stupid libtards from saying that it was worse than Vietnam.
We had a little thing called 911 under Bush. Despite some serious warnings.
We had a WTC 93 under Clinton.
Neither of them, nor their supporters, can claim a win in keeping the homeland safe.
Well...
Rudy Giuliani: 'We Had No Domestic Attacks Under Bush; We've Had One Under Obama'
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U.S.-backed Syria rebels routed by fighters linked to al-Qaeda
Washington Post ^ | November 3, 2014 | Liz Sly
Posted on November 3, 2014 5:24:48 AM EST by Cincinatus' Wife
BEIRUT — The Obama administration’s Syria strategy suffered a major setback Sunday after fighters linked to al-Qaeda routed U.S.-backed rebels from their main northern strongholds, capturing significant quantities of weaponry, triggering widespread defections and ending hopes that Washington will readily find Syrian partners in its war against the Islamic State.
Moderate rebels who had been armed and trained by the United States either surrendered or defected to the extremists as the Jabhat al-Nusra group, affiliated with al-Qaeda, swept through the towns and villages the moderates controlled in the northern province of Idlib, in what appeared to be a concerted push to vanquish the moderate Free Syrian Army, according to rebel commanders, activists and analysts.
Other moderate fighters were on the run, headed for the Turkish border as the extremists closed in, heralding a significant defeat for the rebel forces Washington had been counting on as a bulwark against the Islamic State.....
...Another Western-backed group, the Syrian Revolutionary Front, on Saturday gave up its bases in Jabal al-Zawiya, a collection of mountain villages that had been under the control of the pro-American warlord Jamal Maarouf since 2012. A video posted on YouTube showed Jabhat al-Nusra fighters unearthing stockpiles of weaponry at Maarouf’s headquarters in his home town of Deir Sunbul.....
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
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Moderate rebels who had been armed and trained by the United States
there is so much wrong with the world when people are celebrating the US-backed Syrian rebels losses.
Just so much wrong. When the syrian govt, rebels, and ISIS, along with AL-Q are all fighting and killing each other, I think there's only one thing the US needs:
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/2ad742932e832110666be0786986d006/tumblr_mok4u8Xd4k1sppmago1_500.gif)
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there is so much wrong with the world when people are celebrating the US-backed Syrian rebels losses.
Just so much wrong. When the syrian govt, rebels, and ISIS, along with AL-Q are all fighting and killing each other, I think there's only one thing the US needs:
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/2ad742932e832110666be0786986d006/tumblr_mok4u8Xd4k1sppmago1_500.gif)
I and others told you this plan was a failure from Day 1 - deal with it.
Obama needs to resign and leave the country.
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I and others told you this plan was a failure from Day 1 - deal with it.
Obama needs to resign and leave the country.
And I told you - maybe you're not privy to the actual plan.
In iraq, the net result of the war there is an entire generation of dead males who are fighting age. When (not if) we return to invade Iraq in another 10-15 years, their army will be a FRACTION of what it would have been - cause we fostered an environment where all the young males wasted each other for a decade.
I know, that's not what "the news" tells us, lol, but that was my theory BEFORE the iraq was, and that has been the result. We create enough chaos that our future combatants kill most of each other off
And it's happening again in Syria. You have ISIS, AL-Q, the rebels (who did a whole lot of slaughter on their own) and their govt, which hid saddam's WMD and did a lot of other things. FOUR sets of bad guys. And they're all killing each other, over there, and they might take a decade to do it.
When 2020 or 2022 rolls around, and we decide to invade Syria for democracy oil, it'll be a cakewalk. A huge % of their fighting-age males will be long dead, and our invasion will be a smooth one.
So you call it a "failure" because that's what FOX news tells you.
I call it (as well as the Bush plan, since obama is just continuing it) to be a continued success. Think on it 33 - they're wasting each other, we're giving them just enough ammo and guns to keep wasting each other so no side wins.
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I saw a version of this story in Skyfall, 007 movie.
You have an island infested with hundreds of rats. Do you try to stomp every rat? Do you set up a tent, let them bite you at night, and spend a year trying to kill them and their rat babies?
NO!
You set up a big barrel in the middle of the island with coconut as bait. All the rats climb in. Then you let the rats get hungry. THEY WILL EAT ONE ANOTHER. You don't get bit, you don't waste your time and energy chasing rats. You leave them in this barrel and you let them finish each other off.
So if you want, dude, keep on believing obama's goal really is to wipe out 1 group and let the other 2 keep on growing in strength. Or believe maybe, just maybe, we're doing EXACTLY what we did in Iraq.... letting a generation of fighting age males waste each other, so they're soft... and in 15 years, their leaders will give us what we want on favorable terms, or they'll fight without an army.
Even if I'm wrong, entirely possible - it's a badass idea, isn't it? If they're not doing this - SHOULD THEY be doing this? lol
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oh please - a lot of the generals and others already came out and said Obama's plan was doomed to failure from Day 1.
But oh yeah - its only 240 and O-FAIL who know the real secret plan to victory - lmfao
And I told you - maybe you're not privy to the actual plan.
In iraq, the net result of the war there is an entire generation of dead males who are fighting age. When (not if) we return to invade Iraq in another 10-15 years, their army will be a FRACTION of what it would have been - cause we fostered an environment where all the young males wasted each other for a decade.
I know, that's not what "the news" tells us, lol, but that was my theory BEFORE the iraq was, and that has been the result. We create enough chaos that our future combatants kill most of each other off
And it's happening again in Syria. You have ISIS, AL-Q, the rebels (who did a whole lot of slaughter on their own) and their govt, which hid saddam's WMD and did a lot of other things. FOUR sets of bad guys. And they're all killing each other, over there, and they might take a decade to do it.
When 2020 or 2022 rolls around, and we decide to invade Syria for democracy oil, it'll be a cakewalk. A huge % of their fighting-age males will be long dead, and our invasion will be a smooth one.
So you call it a "failure" because that's what FOX news tells you.
I call it (as well as the Bush plan, since obama is just continuing it) to be a continued success. Think on it 33 - they're wasting each other, we're giving them just enough ammo and guns to keep wasting each other so no side wins.
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oh please - a lot of the generals and others already came out and said Obama's plan was doomed to failure from Day 1.
But oh yeah - its only 240 and O-FAIL who know the real secret plan to victory - lmfao
Okay, I'll assume the generals who are being paid to be TV pundits are telling the truth.
Doesn't my idea MAKE MORE SENSE?
If you could do one of two things, which would you do
1) Wipe out a lot of ISIS using a lot of US blood and treasure
2) Wipe out a lot of ISIS, AL-Q, rebels, and Syrian army, using minimal resources,
Which do you do?
And you're basing your belief that "obama failed" on what, exactly? What some paid pundits said on a propaganda news channel? Sheesh, I can't believe a man with your education and skills lacks such critical thinking - Doesn't it make PERFECT sense to let 4 of your enemies slaughter each other?
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
Let your plans be dark (unknown)
I'd say Obama/Bush have nailed down these top 2 Sun Tzu directives, if this is the plan.
Hey, I'm probaly wrong, but if you take your ego and obama hatred out of it, it makes a lot of sense. We don't fight - we convince 4 of our enemies to waste each other. And the (weakened) winner gets to guard against US advancement on their oil in a decade? Sheesh, it sounds pretty obvious to me.
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Oh please - ITS CURRENT AND ACTIVE DUTY GENERALS WHO SAID IT!
Okay, I'll assume the generals who are being paid to be TV pundits are telling the truth.
Doesn't my idea MAKE MORE SENSE?
If you could do one of two things, which would you do
1) Wipe out a lot of ISIS using a lot of US blood and treasure
2) Wipe out a lot of ISIS, AL-Q, rebels, and Syrian army, using minimal resources,
Which do you do?
And you're basing your belief that "obama failed" on what, exactly? What some paid pundits said on a propaganda news channel? Sheesh, I can't believe a man with your education and skills lacks such critical thinking - Doesn't it make PERFECT sense to let 4 of your enemies slaughter each other?
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
Let your plans be dark (unknown)
I'd say Obama/Bush have nailed down these top 2 Sun Tzu directives, if this is the plan.
Hey, I'm probaly wrong, but if you take your ego and obama hatred out of it, it makes a lot of sense. We don't fight - we convince 4 of our enemies to waste each other. And the (weakened) winner gets to guard against US advancement on their oil in a decade? Sheesh, it sounds pretty obvious to me.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/03/islamic-state-syria_n_6092012.html
Shambles
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Oh please - ITS CURRENT AND ACTIVE DUTY GENERALS WHO SAID IT!
Because we didn't use any kind of public misdirection by miilitary folks during project manhattan?
Beacuse any plan as devious as "let 4 groups wreck each other" woudln't be sold with a little domestic articulation?
Because you're disappointing me, 333386. You're a smart man who saw thru the birth certificate bullshit. Yet you let an awesome military strategy (that abides by Sun Tzu) go over your head because of simple misdirection on mass media?
Have you read Sun Tzu? I own the book, the audiotape, and have seen a few really cool history channel shows on it. Brilliant stuff. Letting 4 of your enemies kill each other while having your own generals on TV chiding you for being ineffective would be brilliant too, ya know? Would go right over the heads of angry, partisan people who yell more than they think.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/fqHkeAzgD437O/giphy.gif)
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Yeah - b/c Ayatollah imam Obama el Baracki is the master tactician. lol
Because we didn't use any kind of public misdirection by miilitary folks during project manhattan?
Beacuse any plan as devious as "let 4 groups wreck each other" woudln't be sold with a little domestic articulation?
Because you're disappointing me, 333386. You're a smart man who saw thru the birth certificate bullshit. Yet you let an awesome military strategy (that abides by Sun Tzu) go over your head because of simple misdirection on mass media?
Have you read Sun Tzu? I own the book, the audiotape, and have seen a few really cool history channel shows on it. Brilliant stuff. Letting 4 of your enemies kill each other while having your own generals on TV chiding you for being ineffective would be brilliant too, ya know? Would go right over the heads of angry, partisan people who yell more than they think.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/fqHkeAzgD437O/giphy.gif)
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Yeah - b/c Ayatollah imam Obama el Baracki is the master tactician. lol
I would argue Bush/obama rubberstamps this awesome plan, written by military a decade ago, and just smile along. Our military is 100% badass, 100% capable and competent. No way we're just "winging it" and ending up with the best result - 4 groups wasting each other.
But I don't want to argue it. I'll believe what I want, you believe what you want. I tell ya what though - In ten years, when Syria has few males left to fight, all 4 groups weak or gone, and we take their shit, I want to you open up your "Art of War" book and have a beer :)
You understand things about the law and NYC and Maobamma that I never will. Maybe some things will always elude us. You have these reasons for why this wouldn't be the case, that's cool, one of us is wrong, I guess history will prove it, either way. But remember, I did say this before Iraq, and I've said it since 2003 on getbig... allow a civil war and let a generation of males kill each other so we have more bargaining power later. BOOM exactly what happened.
I respect your love of the USA and hatred for those you believe are hurting it (like Obama). Cheers.
(http://byt.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/JGLtoast.gif)
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Yeah - Obama's failed plan is sobrilliant we just cant see it yet
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Jihadist Militants Have Captured US Anti-Tank Missiles In Syria
International Business Times
Umberto Bacchi, International Business Times
Nov. 3, 2014, 10:17 AM
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Syrian RefugeesAP Photo/Burhan OzbiliciA car hit by a teargas canister burns as riot police use teargas to disperse Kurdish demonsrators as thousands of Syrian refugees continue to arrive at the border in Suruc, Turkey, Monday, Sept. 22, 2014.
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The 'Volcano Of The Euphrates' Is The Key To Reversing The US's Failed Policies In Syria
Weaponry supplied by the US to moderate Syrian rebels was feared to have fallen into the hands of jihadist militants affiliated to al-Qaida after clashes between rival groups.
Islamist fighters with Jabhat al-Nusra seized control of large swathes of land in Jabal al-Zawiya, Idlib province, at the weekend, routing the US-backed groups the Syrian Revolutionaries Front (SFR) and Harakat Hazm, activists said.
Washington relied on SFR and Harakat Hazm to counter Isis (Islamic State) militants on the ground in Syria, complementing its air strikes.
It has thus been supplying them with heavy weapons, including TOW anti-tank missiles in recent months.
The London-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) said that, after five days of fighting, the moderate rebels have now surrendered to al-Nusra, which is listed by the US as a terrorist organization.
"Some of the rebels swore allegiance to al-Nusra, others fled," SOHR said.
After the takeover, Twitter accounts liked to the Islamist group claimed that US weapons were among the stockpiles confiscated by the group.
Ar Raqqah Media, an account that regularly posts updates on IS, al-Nusra and other jihadi movements tweeted:
The claim could not be immediately independently verified.
Photos circulated online by the jihadists purportedly showed stockpiles of food and other aid they said were seized from SFR's headquarters in the village of Deir Sinbul.
jabhat al nusra syria srfTwitterA photo purportedly showing supplies seized by Jabhat al-Nusra in Deir Sinbul, Syria.
SFR leader Jamal Maarouf accused al-Nusra of treachery in a video released online, as the two rebel groups had shared cordial relations before the latter suddenly launched a surprise offensive last week.
"You have tarnished the name of Islam, and you have tarnished religion," Maarouf said, The Times reported. "Why do you fight us? Go away, fight the regime!"
The commander claimed his rebels withdrew from Jabal al-Zawiya "for the safety of civilians because this faction [al-Nusra] does not hesitate in killing civilians. We withdrew from Deir Sinbul to preserve the blood of civilians."
US weaponry has fallen into the hands of a jihadist group before. IS stoleHumvees and other military equipment provided by Washington to the Iraqi army, as it conquered large parts of the country earlier this year.
IS broke ties with al-Qaida and al-Nusra earlier this year and the two groups have since been fighting each other in Syria.
Read more: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/syria-al-nusra-jihadists-capture-us-weaponry-moderate-rebels-1472864#ixzz3I1bU9jUZ
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http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-biggest-problem-in-iraq-isis-2014-11
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EXCLUSIVE-U.S. may significantly hike number of troops in Iraq - sources
Reuters Middle EastReuters Middle East – 4 minutes 5 seconds ago..
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WASHINGTON, Nov 7 (Reuters) - The U.S. military has drawn up plans to significantly increase the number of American forces in Iraq, which now total around 1,400, as Washington seeks to bolster Iraqi forces battling the Islamic State, U.S. officials told Reuters on Friday.
The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, declined to offer details. The United States aims to help advise and train Iraqi and Kurdish forces battling Islamic State fighters who swept into much of northern Iraq. (Reporting by Phil Stewart; Editing by Bill Trott)
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BREAKING NEWS Friday, November 7, 2014 3:37 PM EST
U.S. to Send 1,500 More Troops to Iraq
President Obama has authorized the deployment of an additional 1,500 American troops to Iraq in the coming months, the Defense Department said on Friday, a move that will double the number of those sent to advise and assist Iraqi and Kurdish forces in the battle against the Islamic State.
The Pentagon also said that American military advisers would establish a number of additional training sites across Iraq, in a significant expansion of the American military campaign against the Sunni militant group in Iraq and Syria. Officials in the office of Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said that a number of American military personnel would deploy specifically to Anbar province.
READ MORE »
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/world/middleeast/us-to-send-1500-more-troops-to-iraq.html?emc=edit_na_20141107
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AP sources: IS, al-Qaida reach accord in Syria
By DEB RIECHMANN
Associated Press
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ISTANBUL (AP) -- Militant leaders from the Islamic State group and al-Qaida gathered at a farm house in northern Syria last week and agreed on a plan to stop fighting each other and work together against their opponents, a high-level Syrian opposition official and a rebel commander have told The Associated Press.
Such an accord could present new difficulties for Washington's strategy against the IS group. While warplanes from a U.S.-led coalition strike militants from the air, the Obama administration has counted on arming "moderate" rebel factions to push them back on the ground. Those rebels, already considered relatively weak and disorganized, would face far stronger opposition if the two heavy-hitting militant groups now are working together.
IS - the group that has seized nearly a third of Syria and Iraq with a campaign of brutality and beheadings this year - and al-Qaida's affiliate in Syria, known as the Nusra Front, have fought each other bitterly for more than a year to dominate the rebellion against Syrian President Bashar Assad.
The Associated Press reported late last month on signs that the two groups appear to have curtailed their feud with informal local truces. Their new agreement, according to the sources in rebel groups opposed to both IS and Nusra Front, would involve a promise to stop fighting and team up in attacks in some areas of northern Syria.
Cooperation, however, would fall short of unifying the rival groups, and experts believe any pact between the two sides could easily unravel. U.S. intelligence officials have been watching the groups closely and say a full merger is not expected soon - if ever. A U.S. official with access to intelligence about Syria said the American intelligence community has not seen any indications of a shift in the two groups' strategy, but added that he could not rule out tactical deals on the ground. The official insisted on anonymity because he said he was not authorized to speak publicly about the subject.
According to a Syrian opposition official speaking in Turkey, the meeting took place Nov. 2 in the town of Atareb, west of Aleppo, starting at around midnight and lasting until 4 a.m. The official said the meeting was closely followed by members of his movement, and he is certain that an agreement was reached. The official said about seven top militant leaders attended.
A second source, a commander of brigades affiliated with the Western-backed Free Syrian Army who is known as Abu Musafer, said he also had learned that high-ranking members of Nusra and IS met on Nov. 2. He did not disclose the exact location, but said it was organized by a third party and took place in an area where the FSA is active.
According to Abu Musafer, two decisions were reached: First, to halt infighting between Nusra and IS and second, for the groups together to open up fronts against Kurdish fighters in a couple of new areas of northern Syria.
The Nusra Front has long been seen as one of the toughest factions trying to oust Assad in a civil war estimated to have killed more than 200,000 since 2011. The Islamic State group entered the Syria war in 2012 from its original home in Iraq and quickly earned a reputation for brutality and for trying to impose itself as the leading faction in the rebellion behind which all pious Muslims should unite. Al-Qaida initially rejected IS's claims to any role in Syria, and Nusra and other factions entered a war-within-a-war against it. But the Islamic State group swelled in power and became flush with weapons and cash after overrunning much of northern and western Iraq over the summer.
According to the opposition official, the meeting included an IS representative, two emissaries from Nusra Front, and attendees from the Khorasan Group, a small but battle-hardened band of al-Qaida veterans from Afghanistan and Pakistan. Also reported present at the meeting was Jund al-Aqsa, a hard-line faction that has sworn allegiance to IS; and Ahrar al-Sham, a conservative Muslim rebel group.
The official said IS and the Nusra Front agreed to work to destroy the Syrian Revolutionaries Front, a prominent rebel faction armed and trained by the United States and led by a fighter named Jamal Maarouf. They agreed to keep fighting until all of the force, estimated to be 10,000 to 12,000 fighters, was eliminated, the official said.
During the meeting, IS also offered to send extra fighters to Nusra Front for an assault it launched last week on Western-backed rebels from the Hazm Movement near the town of Khan al-Sunbul in northern Syria, the official said. IS sent about 100 fighters in 22 pickup trucks but Nusra ended up not needing the assistance, he said, because Hazm decided not to engage in the fight. Sixty-five Hazm fighters defected to Nusra, he said.
Tom Joscelyn, an American analyst who tracks terror groups for the website Long War Journal, said he hasn't seen any messaging that would confirm that the two groups have formally joined forces on the battlefield. But he said there has been information emerging before the reported Nov. 2 meeting "that would seem to fit in with that being what they were driving at. There has been a big push on the al-Qaida side to get this (alliance) through."
If they work together, the jihadis will be more effective in Syria, he said. "If there is less blood being spilled against each other and they don't have to worry about that, that's going to make it easier for the jihadis to go after Assad or any Western-backed forces."
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Associated Press writer Zeina Karam in Beirut and Intelligence Writer Ken Dilanian in Washington contributed to this report.
© 2014 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-with-isis-islamic-militants-have-army-of-200000-claims-kurdish-leader-9863418.html
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-with-isis-islamic-militants-have-army-of-200000-claims-kurdish-leader-9863418.html
200k? According to a kurdish leader?
Well, our own CIA said it was between 20k and 31k... and that was BEFORE we airbombed them for 3 straight months, engaged them in war with locals, bombed their weapons, cars, bases, and oil/grain refineries.
I tend to believe our own govt over a kurdish leader. 200k would be a factor of TEN. And 200k would be wrecking havoc all over the place. we're wounding their leader, who is talking about fighitng to the last man... and he's sitting on 200k soldiers? doubtful.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/16/abdul-rahman-peter-kassig-beheaded-isis_n_5948302.html
:(
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BREAKING NEWS Sunday, November 16, 2014 1:21 PM EST
U.S. Believes ISIS Video Shows Beheaded American Hostage
The Islamic State released a video Sunday showing a black-clad executioner standing over the severed head of a man it identified as the American aid worker Peter Kassig.
Mr. Kassig, a former Army Ranger disappeared over a year ago at a checkpoint in northeastern Syria while delivering medical supplies.
In recent days, American intelligence agencies received strong indications that the Islamic State had killed Mr. Kassig. But without a body or other corroborating evidence, officials could not be certain.
But after the video was released and intelligence analysts were able to conduct an initial assessment, one senior American official said Sunday that the government was increasingly convinced that the video was authentic and that Mr. Kassig was dead.
READ MORE »
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/17/world/middleeast/isis-video-purports-to-prove-peter-kassig-execution.html?emc=edit_na_20141116
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BREAKING NEWS Sunday, November 16, 2014 1:21 PM EST
U.S. Believes ISIS Video Shows Beheaded American Hostage
The Islamic State released a video Sunday showing a black-clad executioner standing over the severed head of a man it identified as the American aid worker Peter Kassig.
Mr. Kassig, a former Army Ranger disappeared over a year ago at a checkpoint in northeastern Syria while delivering medical supplies.
In recent days, American intelligence agencies received strong indications that the Islamic State had killed Mr. Kassig. But without a body or other corroborating evidence, officials could not be certain.
But after the video was released and intelligence analysts were able to conduct an initial assessment, one senior American official said Sunday that the government was increasingly convinced that the video was authentic and that Mr. Kassig was dead.
READ MORE »
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/17/world/middleeast/isis-video-purports-to-prove-peter-kassig-execution.html?emc=edit_na_20141116
Wait they are fighting back? i thought they were suppose to just die.
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Wait they are fighting back? i thought they were suppose to just die.
If the US had a republican president they would have all died by now.
Its true.
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If the US had a republican president they would have all died by now.
Its true.
Failbama loves isis
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If the US had a republican president they would have all died by now.
Its true.
I believe a republican president - a mccain, for example - would have followed the Bush model and sent in 100,000 troops to get ISIS. They would have excluded the local forces from much of the dirty work.
The financial and blood cost for USA would have been much higher. And the war would be #1 in the news. Right now, it's actually not a bad situation that ebola death #2 (a man that went untreated for 2 weeks in siearra leone) and "grubergate" lol.
Stories like "US loses 200th soldier fighting ISIS" aren't happening, and I think that's a good thing. ISIS hasn't attacked us here. They have killed a handful of hostages because the USA didn't pay the ransom like the other nations did. But everyone one killed (I believe) were jounralists or aid workers that knowingly entered enemy territory - we will NEVER be able to stop any bad guys from kidnapping individuals, not in Syria, not in freakin mexico for that matter.
So while Obama is failing in many areas - Ebola and ISIS are two areas where, well, republican seem to blow all their political capital bitching. You only get traction with complaints about a few things - they should be demolishing obama on AMNESTY and then obamacare right now. Screaming about ISIS and Eobola just means nobody notices amnesty - and that's what obama wants.
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I believe a republican president - a mccain, for example - would have followed the Bush model and sent in 100,000 troops to get ISIS. They would have excluded the local forces from much of the dirty work.
The financial and blood cost for USA would have been much higher. And the war would be #1 in the news. Right now, it's actually not a bad situation that ebola death #2 (a man that went untreated for 2 weeks in siearra leone) and "grubergate" lol.
Stories like "US loses 200th soldier fighting ISIS" aren't happening, and I think that's a good thing. ISIS hasn't attacked us here. They have killed a handful of hostages because the USA didn't pay the ransom like the other nations did. But everyone one killed (I believe) were jounralists or aid workers that knowingly entered enemy territory - we will NEVER be able to stop any bad guys from kidnapping individuals, not in Syria, not in freakin mexico for that matter.
So while Obama is failing in many areas - Ebola and ISIS are two areas where, well, republican seem to blow all their political capital bitching. You only get traction with complaints about a few things - they should be demolishing obama on AMNESTY and then obamacare right now. Screaming about ISIS and Eobola just means nobody notices amnesty - and that's what obama wants.
Sounds about right.
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Failbama loves isis
Well he IS their leader and they are his base so...
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/gitmo-poet-now-recruiting-islamic-state_819587.html
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http://www.businessinsider.com/r-afghan-students-find-inspiration-in-islamic-states-success-2014-12
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Is ANYONE still celebrating ISIS wins?
their leader was rambling about fighting to the last man, despite being wounded. it's winter, their grain/oil is wrecked, and we've forced them from hiding in syria planning attacks on us, into running from city to city having bloody battles with local iraqi and syrian military.
I know it was all cool to shit on the USA and obama because we weren't able to kill 100% of ISIS bad guys in 5 minutes... but is anyone still declaring the war on ISIS "in shambles"? They're on the run, they are fighting to the death, their $ is dried up, and they haven't attacked us. And minimal US cost/casualty.
and anyone calling this kneepadding, you're just being blind here... this isn't about kneepadding obama, who sucks on many levels - this is clearly pointing out ISIS has been beat down greatly and winter is going to be rough on them.
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Yeah...there in shambles.....their cash was hard currency for the most part. Captured oil was a nice to have but never a long term thing unless they actually became a caliphate. They're sucking so bad that we have to deploy the 82nd to bolster forces. They should never have been the threat they became. Air only does so much and unless we're willing to kill the rest they'll grow back. The reasons that ISIS grew are not gone. They are neither all dead or given a reason to quit fighting. I'm not sure how winter is gonna suck for them. This isn't Afghanistan. And eeven if you think there will or could be bad weather across Iraq...that fact only hampers US air power. They have been degraded to an extent but a few months of thinking like this and we're back were we started.
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Yeah...there in shambles.....their cash was hard currency for the most part. Captured oil was a nice to have but never a long term thing unless they actually became a caliphate. They're sucking so bad that we have to deploy the 82nd to bolster forces. They should never have been the threat they became. Air only does so much and unless we're willing to kill the rest they'll grow back. The reasons that ISIS grew are not gone. They are neither all dead or given a reason to quit fighting. I'm not sure how winter is gonna suck for them. This isn't Afghanistan. And eeven if you think there will or could be bad weather across Iraq...that fact only hampers US air power. They have been degraded to an extent but a few months of thinking like this and we're back were we started.
I think the CIA said there were 20k to 31k of them. What are their numbers like these days?
Also, their net worth was $2 bil. How has that been affected with us blowing up refineries and grainery?
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They captured a lot of hard currency in gold and cash. That makes operations very easy to support. The oil issue was never going to be long term because they weren't a legitimate country. They can conduct black market trading and for small stuff that's fine and can fund a good sized group for awhile but 20-30K fighters and some of the conventional stuff they were trying to do...its hard for obvious reasons. The other issue is that even with setbacks its still chaos over there and the Iraq government is having a hard time of it. They finally cut a revenue sharing deal with the kurds that could make it impossible for ISIS to do what they want. The hard core dudes can melt back into the population and back over into Syria. Until that mess is settled its gonna be on a low boil for awhile. Also apparently other AQ groups are getting jealous and in order to secure financial backers they're trying to launch attacks.
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Obama is rooting for ISIS remember?
Is ANYONE still celebrating ISIS wins?
their leader was rambling about fighting to the last man, despite being wounded. it's winter, their grain/oil is wrecked, and we've forced them from hiding in syria planning attacks on us, into running from city to city having bloody battles with local iraqi and syrian military.
I know it was all cool to shit on the USA and obama because we weren't able to kill 100% of ISIS bad guys in 5 minutes... but is anyone still declaring the war on ISIS "in shambles"? They're on the run, they are fighting to the death, their $ is dried up, and they haven't attacked us. And minimal US cost/casualty.
and anyone calling this kneepadding, you're just being blind here... this isn't about kneepadding obama, who sucks on many levels - this is clearly pointing out ISIS has been beat down greatly and winter is going to be rough on them.
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Obama is rooting for ISIS remember?
Yes. I know when I was rooting for my high school cheerleaders, dropping a warm payload on their head was the way to express my support and devotion. I suspect the same applies here.
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bump
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31502863
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/03/09/el-sisi_on_how_arab_allies_view_united_states_leadership_difficult_question.html
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http://www.vocativ.com/339694/isis-bloody-ramadan/