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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on December 01, 2014, 04:28:25 PM
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What's your opinion on his place in boxing history? State your case.
Let me state he's my favorite fighter period. I'd put him in top 5. His losses to Holyfield and Lewis stain his resume. Superprisingly not Buster Douglas' win. It was a once in career thing. A win is win but Mike was going through alot of shit at that time. Namely Robin Givens. I'd had been interested in seeing a prime Mike vs. Holyfield and Lewis. He has his number. Holyfield whooped his ass the second fight. Although I don't think Evander could take a prime Mike. As far as Lennox Lewis goes,he beat an old fucked up past his prime Mike.
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Lenox fought all past their prime fighters but the dude was a beast but a total asshole. Lennox had an arm reach that would have given a prime tyson lots of trouble.
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A convicted rapist that a lot of people love
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Tyson in his prime was unbeatable but his prime only lasted a few years and he was already on the slide before his first fight with Frank Bruno in 1989. When he was poor and under the guidance of Cus D'amato boxing was all he focused on and his genetic gifts plus 100% dedication resulted in perhaps the greatest fighter of all time. Unfortunately once he made his money, conquered the world of boxing he got lazy and distracted and his training suffered and naturally his skills started to wane. If he had managed to stay motivated and continued to train properly I honestly believe he would have been too much for Holyfield and also Lennox Lewis.
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Tyson in his prime was unbeatable but his prime only lasted a few years and he was already on the slide before his first fight with Frank Bruno in 1989. When he was poor and under the guidance of Cus D'amato boxing was all he focused on and his genetic gifts plus 100% dedication resulted in perhaps the greatest fighter of all time. Unfortunately once he made his money, conquered the world of boxing he got lazy and distracted and his training suffered and naturally his skills started to wane. If he had managed to stay motivated and continued to train properly I honestly believe he would have been too much for Holyfield and also Lennox Lewis.
Yep, another case of the greatest there never was.
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100 yrs time, people will speak of two boxers.... Tyson and Ali... That sums it up
I wonder if Dorian and Ronny will still be mentioned also?...
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I'd like to "go through" Robin Givens.
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Tyson would have lost to Foreman -prime on prime,
Liston gives Mike a long night,
Ali puts him away,
Frazier gives Mike a long night too,
prime Holmes beats Mike,
put Marciano on a weights program and beef him up and it's a toss up fight,
prime Joe Louis beats Tyson
Tyson in the 70's era would have had some real problems, he's definitely great with Cus, but after that, he was not the same fighter, did not have Ali's or Marciano's or Fraziers heart, Tyson is tailor made for big George and Liston, Holmes too many skills across the board
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A convicted rapist that a lot of people love
This .
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Who would win in a fight between Tyson and Ronnie Coleman?
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Who would win in a fight between Tyson and Ronnie Coleman?
(http://i.imgur.com/af1ia.jpg)
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;)
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Tyson would have lost to Foreman -prime on prime,
Liston gives Mike a long night,
Ali puts him away,
Frazier gives Mike a long night too,
prime Holmes beats Mike,
put Marciano on a weights program and beef him up and it's a toss up fight,
prime Joe Louis beats Tyson
Tyson in the 70's era would have had some real problems, he's definitely great with Cus, but after that, he was not the same fighter, did not have Ali's or Marciano's or Fraziers heart, Tyson is tailor made for big George and Liston, Holmes too many skills across the board
10/10 for trolling, can't fault it...
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Tyson is low top ten.
In their prime -
Foreman beats him. Holmes beats him, Liston would, Ali would, but I don't think blow out. Frazier is like proto Tyson, Tyson might catch him early, but Frazier has an edge on him if it goes to the later rounds. Norton would of lost, because of Tyson's blitzkrieg type of attack, Ronnie Lyle could've gave him trouble, probably not Shavers.
Tall fighters that weren't afraid of him always gave Tyson trouble.
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Iron Mike in his prime was unreal. When he was dating Robin Givens he looked like he was heavily sedated for an interview. I can't say for sure but I think drugs whether prescription or not and alcohol were his downfall. When he disintegrated he changed the way he fought too. It seems he looked for the knock out from the first sound of the bell instead of letting the opening come to him. Tommy Morrison who was never in his league fought his whole career like that. Little defense and looking for the knockout. It then becomes an easier puzzle for your opponent to figure out.
Mike ducked no one unlike Money Mayweather. He is a top 10 heavy weight for the ages. If some of his opponents fought him when he was at the top of his game he would have taken them out.
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On the one hand, he didn't fight anyone of note in his prime. On the other hand, he fought everyone he could--there just wasn't much talent in the heavyweight division at the time.
It's a great story to think about, but I don't think a "What if?" story is enough to be considered in the top-10 of all time.
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10/10 for trolling, can't fault it...
I'd go 12/10, but then I'd have do some math, or something.
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Tyson is low top ten.
In their prime -
Foreman beats him. Holmes beats him, Liston would, Ali would, but I don't think blow out. Frazier is like proto Tyson, Tyson might catch him early, but Frazier has an edge on him if it goes to the later rounds. Norton would of lost, because of Tyson's blitzkrieg type of attack, Ronnie Lyle could've gave him trouble, probably not Shavers.
Tall fighters that weren't afraid of him always gave Tyson trouble.
Not sure about this.
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Tyson > FMW Jr
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I once had a long conversation with Tyson at a Hebrew barber shop ::)
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I think the Klitchko's would beat him. Louis, Ali, Rocky, Foreman, Frazier, Liston, Shavers, Norton, Weaver.......all would of gave him serious trouble. Holmes and Ali would of run him into the ground. By the 7th round, he would be seriously gassed. Hell, the big canadian that gave Ali trouble would of tested him. Chavalo is his name I believe.
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A very powerful man but he wouldn't last in the ring with Ali.
(http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/muhammad-ali.gif)
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Frazier beat Ali , Tyson in his prime (before jail ) was Frazier on steroids , bigger , faster , stronger , better boxer ...........etc
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I have a hard time imagining anyone beating a prime Tyson. Probably wrong, just can't picture it.
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I have a hard time imagining anyone beating a prime Tyson. Probably wrong, just can't picture it.
Absolutely. At his very peak, no boxer could/would hold him. I mean no boxer, ever. That includes Ali.
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lol @ whoever forwarded the Klitschkos
Prime Iron Mike would TKO both of them at once.
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Absolutely. At his very peak, no boxer could/would hold him. I mean no boxer, ever. That includes Ali.
I'd thought this for years, but it ain't a popular opinion. I've seen lots of old footage, all the legends, and I really can only see Holyfield, Lewis, and the Russian giving a prime Tyson grief. He was so much more powerful than Frazier, or even Foreman. Fast as a viper, too. I'd bet my life no one on earth ever hit as hard.
The Ali crowd needs a little perspective, perhaps.
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I'd bet my life no one on earth ever hit as hard.
Foreman
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Absolutely. At his very peak, no boxer could/would hold him. I mean no boxer, ever. That includes Ali.
Myth. This chap would have a prime Tyson for breakfast, lunch and dinner. A mere matter of seconds.
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Frazier beat Ali , Tyson in his prime (before jail ) was Frazier on steroids , bigger , faster , stronger , better boxer ...........etc
I agree with this.
Tyson was very similar to Frazier except he was faster, and he was harder to hit. If Frazier beat Ali once and fought him basically even 2 more times I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that Ali would have beaten Mike. Tyson's hands were blazing fast for a heavyweight and in boxing speed kills. He had power in both hands, not just his right. Prime Tyson only lasted a few years but he was a bad guy. I'd put him in the ring against anyone in history and like my chances.
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Foreman
I'd disagree. Foreman is a big man, lots of leverage, but he doesn't even punch correctly. All arm, no technique whatsoever. No snap, either, just wide twisting upperbody flails. Tyson had perfect technique and inhuman power.
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Here is Mike Tyson pre-Douglas:
date opponent W-L-D last 6 location
2005-06-11 Kevin McBride 32-4-1
MCI Center, Washington, District of Columbia, USA L TKO 6 10
time: 3:00 | referee: Joe Cortez | judge: Steve Rados 57-55 | judge: Tammye Jenkins 57-55 | judge: Paul Artisst 55-57
2004-07-30 Danny Williams 31-3-0
Freedom Hall State Fairground, Louisville, Kentucky, USA L KO 4 10
time: 2:51 | referee: Dennis Alfred | judge: Dan McLellan | judge: Johnny Monson | judge: Steve Ryan
2003-02-22 Clifford Etienne 24-1-1
The Pyramid, Memphis, Tennessee, USA W KO 1 10
time: 0:49 | referee: Bill Clancy | judge: Richard Barth | judge: Fred Steinwinder III | judge: Ken Whitehead
2002-06-08 Lennox Lewis 39-2-1
The Pyramid, Memphis, Tennessee, USA L KO 8 12
time: 2:25 | referee: Eddie Cotton | judge: Alfred Buqwana | judge: Anek Hongtongkam | judge: Bob Logist
WBC World heavyweight title
IBF World heavyweight title
International Boxing Organization World heavyweight title
2001-10-13 Brian Nielsen 62-1-0
Parken, Copenhagen, Denmark W RTD 6 10
referee: Steve Smoger | judge: Marty Denkin | judge: Erkki Meronen | judge: Daniel Van de Wiele
2000-10-20 Andrew Golota 36-4-0
The Palace, Auburn Hills, Michigan, USA NC NC 3 10
referee: Frank Garza | judge: Brad Wright | judge: Bernard Teachout | judge: Rosemary Grable
Golota down in 1st. Michigan Commission changes the result from a TKO after 2 for Tyson to an NC, due to Tyson testing positive for marijuana after the fight.
2000-06-24 Lou Savarese 39-3-0
Hampden Park, Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom W TKO 1 10x3
time: 0:38 | referee: John Coyle
2000-01-29 Julius Francis 21-7-0
M.E.N. Arena, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom W TKO 2 10x3
time: 1:03 | referee: Roy Francis
Francis down twice in the 1st and three times in the 2nd.
1999-10-23 Orlin Norris 50-5-0
MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA NC NC 1 10
time: 3:00 | referee: Richard Steele | judge: Art Lurie | judge: Dave Moretti | judge: Dalby Shirley
1999-01-16 Frans Botha 39-1-0
MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W KO 5 10
time: 2:59 | referee: Richard Steele | judge: Dave Moretti 36-40 | judge: Dalby Shirley 36-40 | judge: Bill Graham 36-39
1997-06-28 Evander Holyfield 33-3-0
MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA L DQ 3 12
referee: Mills Lane | judge: Jerry Roth 26-29 | judge: Chuck Giampa 26-29 | judge: Duane Ford 26-29
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: Leonard Read)
Tyson disqualified for twice biting Holyfield's ears, claiming he was retaliating to head-butting by Holyfield.
1996-11-09 Evander Holyfield 32-3-0
MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA L TKO 11 12
time: 0:37 | referee: Mitch Halpern | judge: Dalby Shirley 92-96 | judge: Frederico Vollmer 93-100 | judge: Jerry Roth 92-96
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: Leonard Read)
1996-09-07 Bruce Seldon 33-3-0
MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W TKO 1 12
time: 1:49 | referee: Richard Steele | judge: Chuck Giampa | judge: Bill Graham | judge: Dave Moretti
WBA World heavyweight title
1996-03-16 Frank Bruno 40-4-0
MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W TKO 3 12
time: 0:50 | referee: Mills Lane | judge: Larry O'Connell 20-17 | judge: Anek Hongtongkam 20-17 | judge: Jerry Roth 20-17
WBC World heavyweight title (supervisor: Edward Thangarajah)
1995-12-16 Buster Mathis Jr. 20-0-0
Core States Spectrum, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA W KO 3 12
time: 2:32 | referee: Frank Cappuccino | judge: Ron Greenley | judge: Carol Polis | judge: Adelaide Triplett
1995-08-19 Peter McNeeley 36-1-0
MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W DQ 1 10
time: 1:29 | referee: Mills Lane | judge: Duane Ford | judge: Chuck Giampa | judge: Bill Graham
1991-06-28 Donovan Ruddock 25-2-1
Mirage Hotel & Casino, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W UD 12 12
referee: Mills Lane | judge: Chuck Giampa 113-109 | judge: Art Lurie 114-108 | judge: Dalby Shirley 114-108
1991-03-18 Donovan Ruddock 25-1-1
Mirage Hotel & Casino, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W TKO 7 12
time: 2:22 | referee: Richard Steele | judge: Chuck Giampa 59-53 | judge: Dave Moretti 59-53 | judge: Jerry Roth 59-53
1990-12-08 Alex Stewart 26-1-0
Convention Center, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA W TKO 1 10
time: 2:27 | referee: Frank Cappuccino | judge: John Stewart | judge: Eugene Grant | judge: Rocky Castellani
1990-06-16 Henry Tillman 20-4-0
Caesars Palace, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W KO 1 10
time: 2:47 | referee: Richard Steele | judge: Chuck Giampa | judge: Art Lurie | judge: Dalby Shirley
1990-02-11 James Douglas 29-4-1
Tokyo Dome, Tokyo, Japan L KO 10 12
time: 1:22 | referee: Octavio Meyran | judge: Larry Rozadilla 82-88 | judge: Ken Morita 87-86 | judge: Masakazu Uchida 86-86
WBC World heavyweight title (supervisor: Elias Ghanem)
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: Manuel Virgilio Aizprua)
IBF World heavyweight title
Douglas down in round 8
1989-07-21 Carl Williams 22-2-0
Convention Center, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA W TKO 1 12
time: 1:33 | referee: Randy Neumann | judge: Richard F. Murry | judge: Chuck Giampa | judge: Rocky Castellani
WBC World heavyweight title
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: James Binns)
IBF World heavyweight title
1989-02-25 Frank Bruno 32-2-0
Las Vegas Hilton, Hilton Center, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W TKO 5 12
time: 2:55 | referee: Richard Steele | judge: Jerry Roth 40-35 | judge: Omar Mintun 40-34 | judge: Rodolfo Maldonado 40-34
WBC World heavyweight title
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: James Nave)
IBF World heavyweight title (supervisor: Alvin Goodman)
Bruno penalized one point in the 1st for holding and he was also dropped in the 1st.
1988-06-27 Michael Spinks 31-0-0
Convention Hall, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA W KO 1 12
time: 1:31 | referee: Frank Cappuccino | judge: Eva Shain | judge: John Stewart | judge: Rocky Castellani
WBC World heavyweight title (supervisor: Elias Ghanem)
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: James Binns)
IBF World heavyweight title (supervisor: Bill Brennan)
1988-03-21 Tony Tubbs 24-1-0
Tokyo Dome, Tokyo, Japan W TKO 2 12
time: 2:54 | referee: Arthur Mercante | judge: Larry Rozadilla 9-10 | judge: Ken Morita 10-10 | judge: Masakazu Uchida 10-9
WBC World heavyweight title (supervisor: Gabriel Penagaricano)
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: Elias Cordova)
IBF World heavyweight title
1988-01-22 Larry Holmes 48-2-0
Convention Center, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA W TKO 4 12
time: 2:55 | referee: Joe Cortez | judge: Charley Spina 29-28 | judge: Nicasio L. Drake 30-27 | judge: Rudy Ortega 29-28
WBC World heavyweight title (supervisor: Duane Ford)
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: James Binns)
IBF World heavyweight title
1987-10-16 Tyrell Biggs 15-0-0
Convention Hall, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA W TKO 7 15
time: 2:59 | referee: Tony Orlando | judge: Al Wilensky 60-54 | judge: John Stewart 60-54 | judge: Frank Brunette 60-52
WBC World heavyweight title (supervisor: James Binns)
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: Keith Arthur)
IBF World heavyweight title (supervisor: Robert Lee)
1987-08-01 Tony Tucker 34-0-0
Las Vegas Hilton, Hilton Center, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W UD 12 12
referee: Mills Lane | judge: Julio Roldan 118-113 | judge: Phil Newman 119-111 | judge: Bill Graham 117-112
WBC World heavyweight title
WBA World heavyweight title
IBF World heavyweight title
1987-05-30 Pinklon Thomas 29-1-1
Las Vegas Hilton, Outdoor Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W TKO 6 12
time: 2:00 | referee: Carlos Padilla | judge: Dalby Shirley 49-46 | judge: Gordon Volkman 50-44 | judge: Harry Gibbs 49-46
WBC World heavyweight title (supervisor: Arlen Bynum)
WBA World heavyweight title (supervisor: Nick Kerasiotis)
1987-03-07 James Smith 19-5-0
Las Vegas Hilton, Outdoor Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W UD 12 12
referee: Mills Lane | judge: Lou Tabat 120-106 | judge: Dalby Shirley 119-107 | judge: Jose Juan Guerra 119-107
WBC World heavyweight title
WBA World heavyweight title
1986-11-22 Trevor Berbick 31-4-1
Hilton Hotel, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W TKO 2 12
time: 2:35 | referee: Mills Lane | judge: Harry Gibbs 10-8 | judge: Dave Moretti 10-9 | judge: Rudy Ortega 10-9
WBC World heavyweight title
Berbick knocked down twice in round 2. After trying to rise from the second knockdown he fell another two times.r
1986-09-06 Alfonzo Ratliff 21-3-0
Las Vegas Hilton, Hilton Center, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA W TKO 2 10
time: 1:41 | referee: Davey Pearl | judge: Dave Moretti | judge: Paul Smith | judge: Patricia Morse Jarman
1986-08-17 Jose Ribalta 22-3-1
Trump Plaza Hotel, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA W TKO 10 10
James Smith and Tony Tucker took him the distance during his prime run. You'd have to compare those two to Ali and Foreman. Then, you have to play a little generational matchmaking like Foreman on the same shit Tyson was one. Ali and Foreman had damn good punch resistance, and Mike was a shell of himself after the 6-7th round or so. Holyfield, an undersized HW, absorbed Tysons punch well. I got Al 2 out of 3 in a Trilogy with Tyson. If Tyson doesn't get Foreman out in the 1st 4 rounds, those clubbing shots start to wear Tyson, the smaller man, down.
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he doesn't even punch correctly , no technique whatsoever , No snap,
68 KO
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I'd disagree. Foreman is a big man, lots of leverage, but he doesn't even punch correctly. All arm, no technique whatsoever. No snap, either, just wide twisting upperbody flails. Tyson had perfect technique and inhuman power.
I know what you mean, his form looks crappy, but everyone he fought said he was the hardest puncher they ever faced. 68 KOs out 76 wins/81 total fights is unbelievable
I think Tyson's knockouts came from his accuracy moreso than his power. Yeah the guy hit like a mule, but he placed his shots so well that each punch did maximum damage, making them look harder then they were
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68 KO
Understood. Likewise, Babe Ruth hit more homeruns than entire teams. Shit, probably more than the whole league. Worlds beyond his contemporaries; still, shitty swing. Horrible technique, just compare his batting clips to, say, Ted Williams years later. Night and day. But it's all it took at the time. Put Ruth against a modern pitcher, though ... forget it.
Perspective is all.
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I know what you mean, his form looks crappy, but everyone he fought said he was the hardest puncher they ever faced. 68 KOs out 76 wins/81 total fights is unbelievable
I think Tyson's knockouts came from his accuracy moreso than his power. Yeah the guy hit like a mule, but he placed his shots so well that each punch did maximum damage, making them look harder then they were
I'd argue it was both.
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Tyson always was a front runner. That would never have worked with the likes of Holyfield, Lewis, Ali and Foreman just to name a few. The 1st Holyfield-Tyson fight was very competitive for 4-5 rounds. Watch the 5th round, Tyson hits Holyfield with as good a two punch combo as you'll see. A digging left hook to the body with a left uppercut to follow. Both hit Holyfield flush and he didn't take a step back but instead fired right back. The fight was over at that point.
Tyson also fought in a pitiful era post Holmes in the late 80's. Would have like to have seen him fight both Greg Page and Tim Witherspoon. Witherspoon was a beast.
Definitely not a top 10 all time heavyweight. Definitely not a top 100 all time fighter. I'd say he's top 15 heavyweight material all time.
Ali, Louis, Larry Holmes, Foreman, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Lennox, Holyfield, Joe Frazier, Marciano and Liston. That's 11 right there and it's getting to the point where if a couple more years go by
and Wladmir continues winning and cleaning out his division, he's knocking on the door of the top 10 if not kicking it in.
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Tyson always was a front runner. That would never have worked with the likes of Holyfield, Lewis, Ali and Foreman just to name a few. The 1st Holyfield-Tyson fight was very competitive for 4-5 rounds. Watch the 5th round, Tyson hits Holyfield with as good a two punch combo as you'll see. A digging left hook to the body with a left uppercut to follow. Both hit Holyfield flush and he didn't take a step back but instead fired right back. The fight was over at that point.
Tyson also fought in a pitiful era post Holmes in the late 80's. Would have like to have seen him fight both Greg Page and Tim Witherspoon. Witherspoon was a beast.
Definitely not a top 10 all time heavyweight. Definitely not a top 100 all time fighter. I'd say he's top 15 heavyweight material all time.
Ali, Louis, Larry Holmes, Foreman, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Lennox, Holyfield, Joe Frazier, Marciano and Liston. That's 11 right there and it's getting to the point where if a couple more years go by
and Wladmir continues winning and cleaning out his division, he's knocking on the door of the top 10 if not kicking it in.
Remind me who Holmes fought.
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Remind me who Holmes fought.
Guess what, he ran off 48 wins in a row. Got up off the canvas and knocked guys out. Was definitely screwed in the Spinks rematch
and in my opinion was screwed in both Spinks bouts. Most importantly, he never lost to Buster Douglass.
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Guess what, he ran off 48 wins in a row. Got up off the canvas and knocked guys out. Was definitely screwed in the Spinks rematch
and in my opinion was screwed in both Spinks bouts. Most importantly, he never lost to Buster Douglass.
Wasn't being sarcastic, I just don't recall. Was his era more competitive than Tyson's?
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Foreman
This was what I've always thought too, but I watched Facing Ali and they all agreed Ken Norton was the hardest hitter, which was something I never heard before.
On a side note Ray Mercer said Tommy Morrison was the hardest puncher he ever encountered.
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Wasn't being sarcastic, I just don't recall. Was his era more competitive than Tyson's?
Sorry if I came off like a prick. Similar to Tysons. Holmes won his title against Ken Norton and Tyson won his against Trevor Berbick. Ken
Norton is better than anyone Tyson ever beat except for Holmes. The Holmes that Tyson beat had been retired for either 2 or 3 years and
wasn't the real Larry Holmes.
Had Holmes and Tyson met in their respective primes, Tyson would have had some good early moments which Holmes would have weathered. Holmes would eventually
wear Tyson down to a late rounds stoppage. Similar to the 1st Tyson-Holyfield fight.
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This was what I've always thought too, but I watched Facing Ali and they all agreed Ken Norton was the hardest hitter, which was something I never heard before.
On a side note Ray Mercer said Tommy Morrison was the hardest puncher he ever encountered.
Foreman said Cooney hit him harder than anybody.
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Foreman said Cooney hit him harder than anybody.
You're right he didn't say Norton. Interesting read:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-74422.html
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Remind me who Holmes fought.
Shavers, Norton, Weaver, Cooney, Witherspoon, Mercer, and although a loss, went the distance with Holyfield.
Some World class punchers on that list, and Larry could hang and recover, and exchange with all of them. Size isn't an issue, as he's got Tyson by 5 inches, weights are close, reach - Larry's got him by 10".
I figure Holmes by UD, or he flusters him in the later rounds for the knock out, the former being the most likely.
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Shavers, Norton, Weaver, Cooney, Witherspoon, Mercer, and although a loss, went the distance with Holyfield.
Some World class punchers on that list, and Larry could hang and recover, and exchange with all of them. Size isn't an issue, as he's got Tyson by 5 inches, weights are close, reach - Larry's got him by 10".
I figure Holmes by UD, or he flusters him in the later rounds for the knock out, the former being the most likely.
The Mercer win was huge. It was a shut out of a prime legit #1 contender. To me the Holyfield loss was even more impressive as I remember thinking that bout was dead even after 10. Unfortunately for Holmes, he was in his 40's and couldn't keep up with a prime Holyfield for those final 2 rounds. To years later, I had him up after 9 rounds against Oliver McCall who was fresh off his 2nd round KO of Lennox, but like 2 years earlier, he ran out of gas the final 3 rounds. Still a remarkable performance.
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Tyson always was a front runner. That would never have worked with the likes of Holyfield, Lewis, Ali and Foreman just to name a few. The 1st Holyfield-Tyson fight was very competitive for 4-5 rounds. Watch the 5th round, Tyson hits Holyfield with as good a two punch combo as you'll see. A digging left hook to the body with a left uppercut to follow. Both hit Holyfield flush and he didn't take a step back but instead fired right back. The fight was over at that point.
Tyson also fought in a pitiful era post Holmes in the late 80's. Would have like to have seen him fight both Greg Page and Tim Witherspoon. Witherspoon was a beast.
Definitely not a top 10 all time heavyweight. Definitely not a top 100 all time fighter. I'd say he's top 15 heavyweight material all time.
Ali, Louis, Larry Holmes, Foreman, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Lennox, Holyfield, Joe Frazier, Marciano and Liston. That's 11 right there and it's getting to the point where if a couple more years go by
and Wladmir continues winning and cleaning out his division, he's knocking on the door of the top 10 if not kicking it in.
Excuse me but where was Lennox Lewis for the 15 years leading up to his fight with Tyson in 2002. Lewis and Tyson are the same age but yet Lewis took forever and a fucking day to become a top level fighter. Same thing with Evander, that dude was a cruzerweight when Tyson was in his prime and didn't become great until much later on after he roided up and put on weight. Fuck all those guys
Ali is Ali, maybe Foreman for the 6 months that he was at his best, but if you think any of those other guys could have beaten a prime Mike Tyson you have lost your mind. Vladmir? lol. This dude is obviously trolling.
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Excuse me but where was Lennox Lewis for the 15 years leading up to his fight with Tyson in 2002. Lewis and Tyson are the same age but yet Lewis took forever and a fucking day to become a top level fighter. Same thing with Evander, that dude was a cruzerweight when Tyson was in his prime and didn't become great until much later on after he roided up and put on weight. Fuck all those guys
Ali is Ali, maybe Foreman for the 6 months that he was at his best, but if you think any of those other guys could have beaten a prime Mike Tyson you have lost your mind. Vladmir? lol. This dude is obviously trolling.
We'll see. I've never been a big fan of Wladmir and yes, the pre Manny Steward version would probably have gotten KO'd by Mike. The post Manny version, like Lennox would need only make it through 3 rounds with Mike and it would be a beatdown of Iron Mike thereafter.
Wladmir's brother would have absolutely punked any version of Mike Tyson. Vitali is a bad guy. Sonny Liston would have jabbed Tyson into a shell after a round. Another bad guy. The young version of Big George would have overwhelmed Tyson. The old version would have taken longer, but ditto on the results.
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Shavers, Norton, Weaver, Cooney, Witherspoon, Mercer, and although a loss, went the distance with Holyfield.
Some World class punchers on that list, and Larry could hang and recover, and exchange with all of them. Size isn't an issue, as he's got Tyson by 5 inches, weights are close, reach - Larry's got him by 10".
I figure Holmes by UD, or he flusters him in the later rounds for the knock out, the former being the most likely.
Man, those Holmes fights were painful for me. I hated his reign. Not undermining what he did, it was just so f'n boring.
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Man, those Holmes fights were painful for me. I hated his reign. Not undermining what he did, it was just so f'n boring.
I'm actually a fan of Mike Tyson the human being, but watch his title fights save for the Berbick, Holmes and Spinks wins. Hug fests with Bonecrusher and Tony Tucker just to name a few.
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We'll see. I've never been a big fan of Wladmir and yes, the pre Manny Steward version would probably have gotten KO'd by Mike. The post Manny version, like Lennox would need only make it through 3 rounds with Mike and it would be a beatdown of Iron Mike thereafter.
Wladmir's brother would have absolutely punked any version of Mike Tyson. Vitali is a bad guy. Sonny Liston would have jabbed Tyson into a shell after a round. Another bad guy. The young version of Big George would have overwhelmed Tyson. The old version would have taken longer, but ditto on the results.
Nonsense.
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Mike Tyson is lower top 10. He mainly fought tomato cans. He refused to fight Riddick Bowe (threw one of his belts in the trash can) He only fought Lennox Lewis when he was broke and needed the payday. Holyfield Would beat him 10 out of 10 times if they ever fought. I'm not sure top 10 guys can lose to Buster Douglas either. Most people that say Mike Tyson was the best aren't boxing fans, they are just Mike Tyson fans. Same can be said about Mayweather.
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Mike Tyson is lower top 10. He mainly fought tomato cans. He refused to fight Riddick Bowe (threw one of his belts in the trash can) He only fought Lennox Lewis when he was broke and needed the payday. Holyfield Would beat him 10 out of 10 times if they ever fought. I'm not sure top 10 guys can lose to Buster Douglas either. Most people that say Mike Tyson was the best aren't boxing fans, they are just Mike Tyson fans. Same can be said about Mayweather.
Riddick Bowe is the one who threw his WBC belt in the trash actually. Strong recollection of history you have. You make for a very credible boxing analyst. lol.
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Riddick Bowe is the one who threw his WBC belt in the trash actually. Strong recollection of history you have. You make for a very credible boxing analyst. lol.
He may have gotten the Riddick Bowe trash can story wrong, but he nailed it when it comes to Tyson and Mayweather fans. You sir, fit said bill.
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Tyson's fabled aura still owning minds, in full effect when you read that he was unbeatable and hit harder than Foreman, Wladimir Klitschko, Lewis, Lyle and so on... TOP 15 all time, barely... Needed destroyer of mostly bums in a bad transitional era for heavyweights, exciting to watch...
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Mike Tyson is lower top 10. He mainly fought tomato cans. He refused to fight Riddick Bowe (threw one of his belts in the trash can) He only fought Lennox Lewis when he was broke and needed the payday. Holyfield Would beat him 10 out of 10 times if they ever fought. I'm not sure top 10 guys can lose to Buster Douglas either. Most people that say Mike Tyson was the best aren't boxing fans, they are just Mike Tyson fans. Same can be said about Mayweather.
THIS^^^^
plus the fact that true champs come back after losses.
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Pound for pound the greatest of all time.
Prince Naseem ;D
(http://boxrec.com/media/images/thumb/5/50/Naseem_Hamed.jpg/250px-Naseem_Hamed.jpg)
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Tyson is low top ten.
In their prime -
Foreman beats him. Holmes beats him, Liston would, Ali would, but I don't think blow out. Frazier is like proto Tyson, Tyson might catch him early, but Frazier has an edge on him if it goes to the later rounds. Norton would of lost, because of Tyson's blitzkrieg type of attack, Ronnie Lyle could've gave him trouble, probably not Shavers.
Tall fighters that weren't afraid of him always gave Tyson trouble.
Spot on mate, although i think lyle would of beat him.
To many people get hung up on how he knocked out poor heavy weights. When he came up against genuine class he was found wanting.
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What's your opinion on his place in boxing history? State your case.
Ebola easily wins ;D
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Bert Sugar had Tyson listed number 100 on his All-Time Greatest Boxers list.
I tend to agree with putting him right around there.
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Tyson lost to a glorified light-heavy weight in Holyfield twice. The fact that Tyson was scared of Holyfield to the point he had to bite him really hurts his place in history imop. Tyson biting Evander wasn't frustration but FEAR!
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Man, those Holmes fights were painful for me. I hated his reign. Not undermining what he did, it was just so f'n boring.
They were highly exiting compared to the fights of Wladimir
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Tyson definitely top 5
styles makes fights
Prime Tyson kills prime lewis. Tyson's hand and foot speed and head movement sees him easily get past Lewis' jab , inside and wreaks havoc- Lewis- glass chin, heavy but slow jab, perfect for counter Tyson right. Lewis NEVER fought anyone in their prime, lewis lost to an old RAY MERCER .
Tyson kills foreman, George's slow punches would easily be evaded by Mike, sure George had devastating power but against prime Mike he wouldn't have landed clean.
Tyson v frazier or Marciano- Tyson easily KO's both- superior hand speed and defensive skills and KO power. ROcky was an easy target. Joe was a one handed fighter (his right was weak).
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Tyson would kill Vitali ala Lewis, similar styles.
Prime Holmes and Ali would beat Tyson on points, too fast and slick
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Tyson definitely top 5
styles makes fights
Prime Tyson kills prime lewis. Tyson's hand and foot speed and head movement sees him easily get past Lewis' jab , inside and wreaks havoc- Lewis- glass chin, heavy but slow jab, perfect for counter Tyson right. Lewis NEVER fought anyone in their prime, lewis lost to an old RAY MERCER .
Tyson kills foreman, George's slow punches would easily be evaded by Mike, sure George had devastating power but against prime Mike he wouldn't have landed clean.
Tyson v frazier or Marciano- Tyson easily KO's both- superior hand speed and defensive skills and KO power. ROcky was an easy target. Joe was a one handed fighter (his right was weak).
Oh brother ::)
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Lewis" losses:
2 one punch KO"s from 2 decent but not devastating punchers, McCall and Rahman
Tyson hits lewis , lewis would be asleep for days
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Lewis" losses:
2 one punch KO"s from 2 decent but not devastating punchers, McCall and Rahman
Tyson hits lewis , lewis would be asleep for days
The McCall stoppage was controversial and Rahman hit Lewis with a bomb and then Lewis hit his head pretty hard on the canvas on the way down. That punch and fall would have knocked out many top heavyweights, Tyson included.
Not saying that Lewis was George Chuvalo but glass chin? No, that's being a bit unfair.
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Tyson's whole career was orchestrated by Don King. Fighting those he knew he could beat. Honestly tell me who did Tyson beat that was actually a great boxer?
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Tyson fought who was available. I won't fault him for the competition he had, in every boxer's career there will be a certain percentage of tomato cans and dodges. By the time he came up most of the great heavy weights had aged out, and by the time there were new contenders, he was already all fucked up by the death of D'amato, King taking over, and the rape conviction.
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Head to head at their peaks no one beats him, in terms of achievement he s about 6 or 7th.
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Tyson was a great HW but gets over-rated by the casual fan due to the destructive, wreaking ball style he had.
He's at the bottom end of the top 10 HW's ever.
My top 10 would look something like this.
1) Ali
2) Louis
3) Foreman
4) Dempsey
5) Johnson
6) Holmes
7) Jeffries
8) Holyfield
9) Marciano
10) Tyson
I'd have Lewis 11 followed by Frazier, Liston, K bros etc. making up the top 15.
It's worth mentioning though that while I'd rank Tyson below several other HW greats due to a less stellar overall career, I'd favour him to beat some of them in head to head match ups.
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Head to head at their peaks no one beats him, in terms of achievement he s about 6 or 7th.
This x2.
At his Best with Kevin Rooney as his trainer.
Can't really see any one other than a prime Ali having a chance.
Tyson had Speed, power, accuracy, head & foot movement.
His peak just didn't last long.
Marriage to Given's & king as manger was the end for him.
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1) Ali
2) Louis
3) Foreman
4) Dempsey
5) Johnson
6) Holmes
7) Jeffries
8) Holyfield
9) Marciano
10) Tyson
Haha
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Haha
Che, you're a boxing guy. What's your opinion?
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The McCall stoppage was controversial and Rahman hit Lewis with a bomb and then Lewis hit his head pretty hard on the canvas on the way down. That punch and fall would have knocked out many top heavyweights, Tyson included.
Not saying that Lewis was George Chuvalo but glass chin? No, that's being a bit unfair.
lewis' chin was weak
holmes and ali had great chins
Tyson had a great chin - he took heavy heavy powershots from Ruddock+ lewis without being rocked (until the cumulative effect from lewis)
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Che, you're a boxing guy. What's your opinion?
Without discipline, no matter how good you are, you are nothing.
PS: I think you would beat the shit out of Pacquiao inside 4 rounds .
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Mike Tyson is lower top 10. He mainly fought tomato cans. He refused to fight Riddick Bowe (threw one of his belts in the trash can) He only fought Lennox Lewis when he was broke and needed the payday. Holyfield Would beat him 10 out of 10 times if they ever fought. I'm not sure top 10 guys can lose to Buster Douglas either. Most people that say Mike Tyson was the best aren't boxing fans, they are just Mike Tyson fans. Same can be said about Mayweather.
???
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Tyson in his prime was unbeatable but his prime only lasted a few years and he was already on the slide before his first fight with Frank Bruno in 1989. When he was poor and under the guidance of Cus D'amato boxing was all he focused on and his genetic gifts plus 100% dedication resulted in perhaps the greatest fighter of all time. Unfortunately once he made his money, conquered the world of boxing he got lazy and distracted and his training suffered and naturally his skills started to wane. If he had managed to stay motivated and continued to train properly I honestly believe he would have been too much for Holyfield and also Lennox Lewis.
LOL.
Sonny Liston would have punched a hole in him.
Greatest fighter of all time? :-X
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0904/boxing.mike.tyson.through.the.years/images/mike-tyson-kevin-mcbride.jpg)
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It's hard to believe no one has mentioned Max Schmeling. The Kaiser.
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It's hard to believe no one has mentioned Max Schmeling. The Kaiser.
Interesting.
If you can do this....
(http://boxingkodvds.com/images/career-schmeling%201.jpg)
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I'd thought this for years, but it ain't a popular opinion. I've seen lots of old footage, all the legends, and I really can only see Holyfield, Lewis, and the Russian giving a prime Tyson grief. He was so much more powerful than Frazier, or even Foreman. Fast as a viper, too. I'd bet my life no one on earth ever hit as hard.
The Ali crowd needs a little perspective, perhaps.
:D
If you think Mike Tyson could get past six rounds with Ali you need help.
His best win is 53 yo Larry Holmes.
Tyson was a very small limited guy.
That pic I posted is my old neighbor beating him up.
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(http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/1002/rare.tyson.photos/images/Tyson-Williams.jpg)
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(http://www.virginmedia.com/images/buster-tyson.jpg)
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Tyson wouldn't stand a chance against this guy.....
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A prime Tyson could beat any of the greats.
Dude was ferocious.
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hes number #1 in my opinion,i agree,if tyson woulda faced holyfeild or lewis in 86 mike woulda destroyed them,tyson started losing alittle of his mojo when all that shit started going on with his trainers,don king,robin givins ect. if mike woulda stayed with his original crew and no one fucked with his head he woulda been practiclly unbeatable imo
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I would still put my money on Lewis vs Tyson in his prime for one main reason. Fighters with a significant height/reach advantage, would only nullify that advantage if fear came into play. Lewis wasn't easily scared.
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I would still put my money on Lewis vs Tyson in his prime for one main reason. Fighters with a significant height/reach advantage, would only nullify that advantage if fear came into play. Lewis wasn't easily scared.
Agreed... Although Lewis was not exactly a lionheart, he had a monster reach, and he did hit very hard... Too tall, rangy and powerful for any version of Tyson... Tyson unbeatable, lol, as someone else said his best win is against an old, out of shape, ring rusty Larry Holmes (who was also overrated and dominated a weak era)... In his "unbeatable" prime Tillis and Green, two journeymen, took him the distance, at 23yo got dominated left and right by Douglas... As i said, Tyson's flashy style and all the propaganda are still owning minds... He was exciting and top 15 of all time though, imo...
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Haha
I actually was thinking about putting Jeffries higher. :D
Today, the legacy of Jeffries is widely forgotten. However, he was once considered one of, if not the, greatest Heavyweight Champions of all time by many fellow boxers and boxing experts:
Sam Langford, the great fighter who fought from lightweight to heavyweight, advertised to fight any man in the world, except Jim Jeffries.
Tom Sharkey, heavyweight top contender, thought that Jeffries would have beat Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis on the same night. He said Jeffries was strong like a bull and quick on his feet like a cat. Sharkey called Jeffries the greatest fighter of all time.
Jack Root, Willie Ritchie and Tommy Burns, former Light Heavyweight, Lightweight and Heavyweight Champions, respectively, rated Jeffries as the greatest heavyweight.
Jack Johnson, the only man to beat Jeffries, stated in an interview with Ring Magazine that he thought Jeffries was the greatest. In another interview, Johnson said Jeffries would beat both Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis.
James J. Corbett said of Jeffries, "The thing the always impressed me was the speed the youngster had, and he weighed two-hundred-twenty-five pounds. I hold that Jeffries was the greatest Heavyweight Champion of them all."
Jack Dempsey, the great Heavyweight Champion, once said: "Jim Jeffries was a tough gun. If we could have gotten in the ring together, each at our best... I probably would have had my chin knocked off."
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A Prime Tyson fought against big slow boxers who couldn't move for shit. They were sitting ducks for a big right hook and early knockout. Wasn't until he fought someone strong and can move that he was finally revealed as a one trick pony. Guys like holyfield and Ali can move but also have that ferocious knock out punch. Tyson wouldn't last past 3 rounds without being gassed
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I would still put my money on Lewis vs Tyson in his prime for one main reason. Fighters with a significant height/reach advantage, would only nullify that advantage if fear came into play. Lewis wasn't easily scared.
What did you think about the hw fight on the weekend?
probably the worst fight I've ever seen.
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1986-1988 was his prime. Developed a great jab and very hard guy to hit clean with a punch.
Stylistically he's the closest heavyweight to Jack Dempsey from the 1920's:
You can compare their boxing styles head movement,in the following clips:
Dempsey sparring:
From 3:45:
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I actually was thinking about putting Jeffries higher. :D
The Boston Strong Boy John L. Sullivan
Retired 40-0-2 before coming back 3 years after retirement and out of shape to sustain his only loss versus James J. Corbett
(http://ejmas.com/jmanly/articles/2002/roosevelt/JohnLSullivan.jpg)
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Fighting styles make it very difficult to accurately guess
Who would of beat who.
Take Ali v Frazier or norton both gave him a lot of problems
In his fights with them.
Foreman v Frazier & norton, he had no problems defeating them.
Foreman v Ali. We all know the result of that one.
Not many were predicting or expecting That.
We all have our favourites
And we all have our opinions.
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LOL.
Sonny Liston would have punched a hole in him.
Greatest fighter of all time? :-X
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0904/boxing.mike.tyson.through.the.years/images/mike-tyson-kevin-mcbride.jpg)
Opinions are like arseholes.....everyone has one.
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Ali before 1968 was unbeatable, the Ali all are talking about against Frazier, Norton etc was way past his prime and he still beat them more than lost to them
Tyson was great but not great enough to beat a prime Ali, the others are open for debate
To mention the Klitchkos is to expose oneself as being clueless.
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Ali before 1968 was unbeatable, the Ali all are talking about against Frazier, Norton etc was way past his prime and he still beat them more than lost to them
Tyson was great but not great enough to beat a prime Ali, the others are open for debate
To mention the Klitchkos is to expose oneself as being clueless.
Tyson would have a punchers chance against Wladmir. He would be shitting his pants if
he was across the ring staring at Vitali. You are the one whose clueless.
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Tyson would have a punchers chance against Wladmir. He would be shitting his pants if
he was across the ring staring at Vitali. You are the one whose clueless.
Could you imagine ANY of those 80's Heavyweights that Mike faced going up against Vitali?
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|WHat the same Vitali who couldn't KO Derek Chisora and who looked scared everytime Pro golfer Corrie Sanders threw a punch! Yeh im sure he d terrify Mike!
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Could you imagine ANY of those 80's Heavyweights that Mike faced going up against Vitali?
Tony Tucker,Michael Spinks,Larry Holmes,James Tillis.....I think would last the distance.
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Tyson would have a punchers chance against Wladmir. He would be shitting his pants if
he was across the ring staring at Vitali. You are the one whose clueless.
Klitchkos would be adequate sparring partners for the top heavies of the past. Perhaps he beats Braddock, maybe Schmelling, maybe Patterson and Johansenn.He loses badly to Louis, Marciano, Charles,Walcott, Liston,Ali,Frazier,Foreman,Norton,Holmes,Holfield and Tyson. Bowe and Lewis would be decent fights to watch Klitchko compete in, although he can't take a punch he might last awhile.
Heavyweight boxing is dead and Klitchkos holding belts proves it.
We all have opinions but, one be hard pressed to find any boxing fan that gives Klitchkos more than a prayer against any of the above.
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I like Vitali.
Stylistically, he reminds me of the Argentinian heavyweight,Oscar Bonavena,who gave Ali and Frazier fits,but taller and with a better reach.
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mike tyson was a very small heavyweight who repeatedly fought guys who outweighed him by 30-40lbs,he still whipped their asses even with those odds.like i said if cus d'amato wouldve lived longer tyson never would lost to a bum like douglas,tyson started getting high,letting people fuck his mind up ect and he went down hill from there. people r saying he fought cans on his way up ::) guys like bonecrusher smith who had 44 wins,32 ko's,and only lost 17,trevor berbick also,49 wins,33 ko's only 11 losses,these guys dont seem like cans to me. plus guys like spinks,biggs,carl truth williams,razorruddock ect,although not the greatest HW'S r far from bums imo.tyson is one of the greats imo
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Both Klitschko brothers would have been decent in any era, when you are that tall, with that reach and physical attributes... Vitali was the more tough and savvy of the two, Wladimir the more technically sound and one of the very very top hardest hitter of all time... Wladimir not a great chin, Vitali better, but their physical attributes did make them not easy to hit clean... They are both usually very underrated due to their mostly very boring style and for dominating the shittiest era in the history of heavyweights... Really, i just watched Chisora-Tyson Fury, a joke to laugh at, they looked worse than amateurs, what the fuck... The 80s were bad, that's why many journeymen that Tyson fought had good records, just look at Marvis Frazier, lol... Still nowhere near as bad as this laughable era...
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Ali before 1968 was unbeatable, the Ali all are talking about against Frazier, Norton etc was way past his prime and he still beat them more than lost to them
Tyson was great but not great enough to beat a prime Ali, the others are open for debate
To mention the Klitchkos is to expose oneself as being clueless.
This, I would add that Foreman and possibly Shavers in their prime would beat Tyson in his prime. Both Foreman and Shavers had incredible power and had the ability to knock out Tyson. The only other factor with Tyson is he had very quick hands and a devastating uppercut. That could spell trouble if he got inside.
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This, I would add that Foreman and possibly Shavers in their prime would beat Tyson in his prime. Both Foreman and Shavers had incredible power and had the ability to knock out Tyson. The only other factor with Tyson is he had very quick hands and a devastating uppercut. That could spell trouble if he got inside.
Foreman-Tyson is not even worth discussing, either young or fat old Foreman would badly maul any version of Tyson... Shavers different story, Tyson would knock him out in my opinion, Shavers had weak chin and not great durability... Shavers power was extremely overrated also in my opinion, he didn't ko anyone of the greats or of note, except a burned out 36yo Norton in 1979...
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Foreman-Tyson is not even worth discussing, either young or fat old Foreman would badly maul any version of Tyson... Shavers different story, Tyson would knock him out in my opinion, Shavers had weak chin and not great durability... Shavers power was extremely overrated also in my opinion, he didn't ko anyone of the greats or of note, except a burned out 36yo Norton in 1979...
old george was a beast in his day,i remember him KO;ING micheal moore with that short chopping punch,it almost looked like a hook/jab :o georges strength in his punches where imo one of the most powerful ALL TIME in the HW DIVISION
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old george was a beast in his day,i remember him KO;ING micheal moore with that short chopping punch,it almost looked like a hook/jab :o georges strength in his punches where imo one of the most powerful ALL TIME in the HW DIVISION
Exactly, Foreman was a freak of nature, probably the most gifted ever in terms of crushing innate power and toughness... Having talked to people who sparred many HW like Holyfield, Lewis, Tua, Morrison, Moorer, Wladimir Klitschko and old Foreman, they said that old Foreman and W. Klischko were the hardest hitter by far... Wladimir more sting, sharper punches and power, old Foreman just pure crushing force and power, simple shots knocking heavyweights around and an unmatched piston jab that could anesthetize your face, lol... Moorer ko, sloppy nonchalant right hand that destroyed his upper lip and the gum inside...
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Tony Tucker,Michael Spinks,Larry Holmes,James Tillis.....I think would last the distance.
If Spinks could somehow jump out of the ring and beat it out of there he might have a chance.
But little Michael Spinks going 12 rounds with Vitali? No.
(http://www.gifcrap.com/g2data/albums/Sports/Boxer%20runs%20away%20in%20the%20ring_%20jumps%20on%20the%20ropes%20and%20gets%20knocked%20out.gif)
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Klitchkos would be adequate sparring partners for the top heavies of the past. Perhaps he beats Braddock, maybe Schmelling, maybe Patterson and Johansenn.He loses badly to Louis, Marciano, Charles,Walcott, Liston,Ali,Frazier,Foreman,Norton,Holmes,Holfield and Tyson. Bowe and Lewis would be decent fights to watch Klitchko compete in, although he can't take a punch he might last awhile.
Heavyweight boxing is dead and Klitchkos holding belts proves it.
We all have opinions but, one be hard pressed to find any boxing fan that gives Klitchkos more than a prayer against any of the above.
???
I actually think most unbiased, sensible fans would make either brother the strong favourite against someone like Marciano.
Foreman-Tyson is not even worth discussing, either young or fat old Foreman would badly maul any version of Tyson... Shavers different story, Tyson would knock him out in my opinion, Shavers had weak chin and not great durability... Shavers power was extremely overrated also in my opinion, he didn't ko anyone of the greats or of note, except a burned out 36yo Norton in 1979...
Fat old Foreman would have got absolutely battered by Tyson. It would have been sad to watch.
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If Spinks could somehow jump out of the ring and beat it out of there he might have a chance.
But little Michael Spinks going 12 rounds with Vitali? No.
[/img]
You never know. Spink's arguably a top 10 ATG light heavyweight.The guy had KO power in both hands and amazing timing and footwork. He looked outstanding against Larry Holmes,the first time round, and (admittedly a shot) Gerry Cooney.You shouldn't really judge him,by his final fight with Tyson,where he decided to lay down and get out of the sport,with his brain cells intact.
Also,Chris Byrd,who(like Spinks) boxed as a middleweight in the Olympics, did go the distance against both Vitali and Wladimir didn't he? Beat Vitali once too,if I recall.
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???
I actually think most unbiased, sensible fans would make either brother the strong favourite against someone like Marciano.
Fat old Foreman would have got absolutely battered by Tyson. It would have been sad to watch.
At some you just have to take sheer size advantage, extremely effective jab and big time punching power into play.
It's like those people who say Dempsy, Tunney, Jack Johnson would have beaten the Klitschko brothers.
Give me a fucking break...those guys would never even get close to being able to cover the distance necessary to land anything meaningful on those 2 monsters.
You never know. Spink's arguably a top 10 ATG light heavyweight.The guy had KO power in both hands and amazing timing and footwork. He looked outstanding against Larry Holmes,the first time round, and (admittedly a shot) Gerry Cooney.You shouldn't really judge him,by his final fight with Tyson,where he decided to lay down and get out of the sport,with his brain cells intact.
Also,Chris Byrd,who(like Spinks) boxed as a middleweight in the Olympics, did go the distance against both Vitali and Wladimir didn't he? Beat Vitali once too,if I recall.
That's the key word...LIGHT Heavyweight.
Vitali has the second best kayo percentage of all time in an era with 240 pound men while never even being dropped once in his entire boxing career.
What is he going to do against a little guy like Spinks?
At some point sheer size advantage does come into play.
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At some you just have to take sheer size advantage, extremely effective jab and big time punching power into play.
It's like those people who say Dempsy, Tunney, Jack Johnson would have beaten the Klitschko brothers.
Give me a fucking break...those guys would never even get close to being able to cover the distance necessary to land anything meaningful on those 2 monsters.
I could actually understand someone thinking Dempsey beating the K's because he had the style that could potentially do it. He was quick and much like Tyson, attacked from lots of angles. Marciano though was not only significantly smaller then the K's but he was also slow (probably even more so than Wlad despite being so much lighter), crude and easy to hit. I would just see him eating jabs and right hands all night unless he lands a hail mary (suzie q) punch.
However, it's hard generally to compare the new guys against the old timers since they would not be used to +12 round fights and the other differences in the sport that has occurred.
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Give me a fucking break...those guys would never even get close to being able to cover the distance necessary to land anything meaningful on those 2 monsters.
That's the key word...LIGHT Heavyweight.
Vitali has the second best kayo percentage of all time in an era with 240 pound men while never even being dropped once in his entire boxing career.
What is he going to do against a little guy like Spinks?
At some point sheer size advantage does come into play.
Just don't fight Vitali at his own game.Use speed.Use mobility. Don't compete with him in the mass game by bulking up and losing mobility.You'll just end up standing in front of him and get outmuscled and clubbed to death.
The saying goes styles make fights. I really do think Michael Spinks could go the distance with Vitali. He was that good. I wouldn't have said this if Vitali had more explosive one stop KO power(his punches are more clubbing and fights usually end in TKO stoppages,rather than in 10 counts) and Spinks didn't beat an old Larry Holmes(who was still better than the versions Tyson,Holyfield and Mercer faced).
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Just don't fight Vitali at his own game.Use speed.Use mobility. Don't compete with him in the mass game by bulking up and losing mobility.You'll just end up standing in front of him and get outmuscled and clubbed to death.
The saying goes styles make fights. I really do think Michael Spinks could go the distance with Vitali. He was that good. I wouldn't have said this if Vitali had more explosive one stop KO power(his punches are more clubbing and fights usually end in TKO stoppages,rather than in 10 counts) and Spinks didn't beat an old Larry Holmes(who was still better than the versions Tyson,Holyfield and Mercer faced).
Even if you take the Byrd fight into account, Vitali was still miles ahead on the cards and would have cruised to a easy victory before the shoulder injury. He dominated Byrd.
Not sure how the Lewis fight would have ended but Vitali was slightly ahead on the cards in that one too. At the end of the day he still had that massive cut and all the praise needs to go to Lewis for the stoppage.
So basically, 2 fights he lost due to stoppage while being ahead on the cards and the rest of his career he dominated his opponents with a higher kayo percentage than even Tyson.
I see your points though. Maybe Spinks could stick and move and go the distance similar to what Byrd was on track to do before the injury. He was a great Light Heavyweight.
I would still have to put Spinks a heavy under dog in getting the victory, though stranger things have happened and I suppose it's possible.
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Fat old Foreman would have got absolutely battered by Tyson. It would have been sad to watch.
That's why Tyson was scared shitless and avoided him like plague during late 80s and early/mid 90s... Tyson knew history and matchups very well, he was not stupid... No swarmers or peek-a-boo would ever have a chance against any version of Foreman... The only way to beat him was fighting a very clever match, being either tall and rangy and/or very elusive, boxing from the outside on bicycle, cast iron chin a must... Even that is a 50-50 chance of taking the victory on points, knocking him out or down forget it... Had Tyson those attributes? No, he was somewhat of a Frazier on steroids, with less heart and toughness... Taking the fight to and brawl with any version of Foreman is suicide for any boxer in history...
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This thread makes me miss the good days of Boxing. Loved when the Heavy Weight Division ruled and fights were epic. Boxing is total dogshit now with all mexicans and filipinos that weigh 90 pounds.
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Right im on the verge of a meltdown here, you think the old Foreman who lost to Saverese, Briggs, barely beat AXEL SCHULTZ!!!!!!!!!! Kos Mike fuckin Tyson easily!??!?!!? ::)
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Right im on the verge of a meltdown here, you think the old Foreman who lost to Saverese, Briggs, barely beat AXEL SCHULTZ!!!!!!!!!! Kos Mike fuckin Tyson easily!??!?!!? ::)
What? Foreman beat both Savarese and Schulz, and was blatantly robbed against prime Briggs... Not one of them did brawl with him, clever fighting from the outside... Foreman was also too old and slow when he fight them, close to his definitive retirement... Foreman late 80s/early 90s was lighter and much better... Regarding Old Foreman-Tyson, in this case the famous "styles makes fights" is completely correct... I didn't said that he would ko him easily in one or two rounds, but Old Foreman would wear him down and maul him to a TKO or KO after some rounds...
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What? Foreman beat both Savarese and Schulz, and was blatantly robbed against prime Briggs... Not one of them did brawl with him, clever fighting from the outside... Foreman was also too old and slow when he fight them, close to his definitive retirement... Foreman late 80s/early 90s was lighter and much better... Regarding Old Foreman-Tyson, in this case the famous "styles makes fights" is completely correct... I didn't said that he would ko him easily in one or two rounds, but Old Foreman would wear him down and maul him to a TKO or KO after some rounds...
Supposedly Foreman wanted that Tyson fight going all the way back to 1989.
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This thread makes me miss the good days of Boxing. Loved when the Heavy Weight Division ruled and fights were epic. Boxing is total dogshit now with all mexicans and filipinos that weigh 90 pounds.
Agreed we will never see an era again with all those quality Heavyweights.
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What? Foreman beat both Savarese and Schulz, and was blatantly robbed against prime Briggs... Not one of them did brawl with him, clever fighting from the outside... Foreman was also too old and slow when he fight them, close to his definitive retirement... Foreman late 80s/early 90s was lighter and much better... Regarding Old Foreman-Tyson, in this case the famous "styles makes fights" is completely correct... I didn't said that he would ko him easily in one or two rounds, but Old Foreman would wear him down and maul him to a TKO or KO after some rounds...
He only beat them cos the judges said, he didn't really. Watch the fights.
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Supposedly Foreman wanted that Tyson fight going all the way back to 1989.
Yes, Foreman use to call him out all the time in the 1980's - early 1990's. Apparently, Cus, and by extension his camp didn't want him with anyone like Foreman, and they had an out claiming Foreman was trying to ride Tyson's coattails to a big payday. King didn't either, but there was money to be made, so they were looking to make it happen mid 90, early 91. Meanwhile Tyson was never too keen to fight George, and felt that George was playing possum to lure in bigger opponents. Then the Douglas fight happens, Tyson's confidence is shot, and so ends the thought of a Tyson - Foreman match.
That's the story I've always heard.
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A crapload of full Tyson fights on youtube.
cut/paste
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Yes, Foreman use to call him out all the time in the 1980's - early 1990's. Apparently, Cus, and by extension his camp didn't want him with anyone like Foreman, and they had an out claiming Foreman was trying to ride Tyson's coattails to a big payday. King didn't either, but there was money to be made, so they were looking to make it happen mid 90, early 91. Meanwhile Tyson was never too keen to fight George, and felt that George was playing possum to lure in bigger opponents. Then the Douglas fight happens, Tyson's confidence is shot, and so ends the thought of a Tyson - Foreman match.
That's the story I've always heard.
In some ways that prison sentence might have actually helped his overall legacy.
It saved him from ever actually fighting Lewis/Holyfield earlier and ever facing Bowe...3 fighters of a stature that he had never faced before and I would bet all 3 would have embarrassed him pretty bad, even with Mike being around 26 or 27 years of age.
I think Michael Moorer hurts a 1993 Tyson pretty bad too but I'm not so sure about George. Would have been a fun fight to watch although I think Mike out boxes George like Morrison did for the victory.
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If you took some of the old time greats - Dempsey, Johnson, Marciano, Walcott, Louis.... and had them train with todays methods, nutrition, get them bulked up I don't see why they couldn't have been successful in any era
I think people underestimate Marciano way too much, he fought in a weak era yes, was put on the canvas by the mongoose and a few other times, but he always found a way to win, his conditioning was second to none and he had the heart of two lions with his suzy q to finish the job
Ali had mad respect for Marciano, again styles make fights- Ali was a possible win for Marciano, Foreman or Liston not so sure
I still think the ultimate heavyweight fight of all time is Marciano and Smokin' Joe - too close to call
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???
I actually think most unbiased, sensible fans would make either brother the strong favourite against someone like Marciano.
Fat old Foreman would have got absolutely battered by Tyson. It would have been sad to watch.
No one who saw Marciano and Klitchkos fight would think anything but Marciano crushing them both.
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If you took some of the old time greats - Dempsey, Johnson, Marciano, Walcott, Louis.... and had them train with todays methods, nutrition, get them bulked up I don't see why they couldn't have been successful in any era
I think people underestimate Marciano way too much, he fought in a weak era yes, was put on the canvas by the mongoose and a few other times, but he always found a way to win, his conditioning was second to none and he had the heart of two lions with his suzy q to finish the job
Ali had mad respect for Marciano, again styles make fights- Ali was a possible win for Marciano, Foreman or Liston not so sure
I still think the ultimate heavyweight fight of all time is Marciano and Smokin' Joe - too close to call
Yeah I seen that interview.
I think Ali was really dead on in accessing the Champs before him. Really funny when he talked about Jess Willard "he just a big ole freak"(which he really was)
He said Marciano was probably the only one who could have given him trouble because of that big right hand and there's no doubt...just look at the old tapes,, Marciano had a dynamite right hand, maybe the best ever. Even that old footage from the 50's you could see the power and fighters being left cold after Suzie Q
Dempsey, Joe Louis, Marciano...all three of those guys had some serious punching power.
I want to say Ali beats Marciano by a close decision because I think Ali was the best ever but at the same time Marciano would be an extremely dangerous match-up. Freakish natural punching power and the man was obsessed with conditioning. They say no boxer has ever trained as hard as Marciano.
I still say Ali takes it by shear talent and the size advantage but it would have been a war.
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Gotta agree with you - everything you said is right on
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In some ways that prison sentence might have actually helped his overall legacy.
It saved him from ever actually fighting Lewis/Holyfield earlier and ever facing Bowe...3 fighters of a stature that he had never faced before and I would bet all 3 would have embarrassed him pretty bad, even with Mike being around 26 or 27 years of age.
I think Michael Moorer hurts a 1993 Tyson pretty bad too but I'm not so sure about George. Would have been a fun fight to watch although I think Mike out boxes George like Morrison did for the victory.
We talking about prime, Foreman was almost 20 yes past his when he fought Morisson
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We talking about prime, Foreman was almost 20 yes past his when he fought Morisson
"We're talking prime" ::)
Follow the post I replied to and tell me where it entailed a "prime for prime" discussion.
Your trolling attempts leave much to be desired.
Step it up, noob.
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I remember watching a docu on Ali. He looked lanky but had insane punching power. They timed him and it was second to none. Plus he could take a punch. Took some shots that would have knocked out almost anyone and then pulls the rope a dope. Ali would have beaten Mike mentally before ever getting in the ring.
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No one who saw Marciano and Klitchkos fight would think anything but Marciano crushing them both.
::)
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Hahahaha I ve heard it all now Michael Moorer beats Mike Tyson AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Im sure I read somewhere Marciano deadlifted 900lbs! At some army facility or something ::)
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"We're talking prime" ::)
Follow the post I replied to and tell me where it entailed a "prime for prime" discussion.
Your trolling attempts leave much to be desired.
Step it up, noob.
OK, we discussing, didn't mean to confuse you.
We are also discussing how their boxing abilities compare today as most of these men are dead or elderly??
Perhaps we discuss Bill Russell playing against Lebron James today?
Use your head for something besides holding your hat.
When one is not intelligent its best to keep their mouths shut and not remove any doubt.
Ask someone to explain that to you.
Troll away as you say.....or type
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Just watching some fights from 1990. Holyfield fought Alex Stewart in a long bloody fight. Shortly thereafter Tyson fought the 6'3 Stewart and took him apart. Walked straight in, knocked him down after like 2 or three punches. Tyson knocked Stewart down 3 times in the first round and got the TKO. lol. If Holyfield fought Tyson anywhere near his prime Evander would have been roadkill.
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Just watching some fights from 1990. Holyfield fought Alex Stewart in a long bloody fight. Shortlcy thereafter Tyson fought the 6'3 Stewart and took him apart. Walked straight in, knocked him down after like 2 or three punches. Tyson knocked Stewart down 3 times in the first round and got the TKO. lol. If Holyfield fought Tyson anywhere near his prime Evander would have been roadkill.
Thats not how it works friend. Styles make fights.
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Thats not how it works friend. Styles make fights.
Holyfield was not big enough, strong enough, or good enough to beat Tyson back then. He eventually roided up and like Lennox Lewis got the good fortune to fight a Mike Tyson that had been in the can for 3 years.
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Hahahaha I ve heard it all now Michael Moorer beats Mike Tyson AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Buster Douglass beat Mike Tyson. Kevin McBride beat Mike Tyson.
It's not really that much of a stretch to say that a 35-0 Moorer takes the win in 1993/1994.
How much money did you lose betting on Tyson when he as a 6 to 1 favorite vs. Holyfield the first time? :-*
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Holyfield was not big enough, strong enough, or good enough to beat Tyson back then. He eventually roided up and like Lennox Lewis got the good fortune to fight a Mike Tyson that had been in the can for 3 years.
Like I said going to prison was the best thing for Tyson's legacy.
Kept him from being exposed.
The problem with Tyson fanboys is you get nothing but excuses from them.
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No one who saw Marciano and Klitchkos fight would think anything but Marciano crushing them both.
LOL. Absolute garbage.
Buster Douglass beat Mike Tyson. Kevin McBride beat Mike Tyson.
It's not really that much of a stretch to say that a 35-0 Moorer takes the win in 1993/1994.
How much money did you lose betting on Tyson when he as a 6 to 1 favorite vs. Holyfield the first time? :-*
The problem with Moorer is that he had an awful chin. In order to beat Tyson you would need to be very robust as you're gonna get hit regardless of defensive qualities. Prime for prime, I really couldn't see Moorer lasting over 2 rounds.
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As for the old Foreman-Tyson debate. If Tyson was indeed scared of Foreman than I really can't understand why. Tyson would have made old George look like a heavy bag. Take out the jackpot punch against the glass jawed Moorer and Foreman's comeback would have been nothing more than a footnote in boxing history.
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Buster Douglass beat Mike Tyson. Kevin McBride beat Mike Tyson.
I met Michael Murray a few years back who had fought and beat Kevin McBride a few years before McBride went on to beat Tyson.
I remember him telling me that McBride was so fucking slow that all he had to do was wait for McBride to commit himself forward and he would nail him. :D
It kind of gives you an idea of how bad Tyson must have been at the end of his career to have lost to the guy.
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I don't get why people go on about Tyson losing to Mcbride its as relevant as Alis loss to Berbick.
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Ex-pro boxer Rich Gaspari.
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I don't get why people go on about Tyson losing to Mcbride its as relevant as Alis loss to Berbick.
Are you saying Grover Wiley beating Julio Cesar Chavez was not relevant ?
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You have to laugh at some of the comments here... There is a real possibility that Moorer could beat and outbox Tyson in the 90s, he was a very underrated champ with decent power, movement and skills... Glass chin my ass, he got ko by Foreman, the most strongest and harder hitter HW of all time, and after disappeared into alcoholism and got ko by Tua, another heavy hitter... Morrison was running and on the bicycle when he fought Old Foreman, in the best shape of his life (confirmed by him), that's why he made it... Could Tyson fight like that? Lol, he would walk into Foreman's bombs, sooner or later it's TKO or KO time... Prime for prime Foreman would brutalize him... Regarding Alex Stewart, i always liked him, underrated, but styles-make-fights in the Stewart-Tyson-Holyfield triangle, plus different times... Agreed with who said that prison time protected Tyson's legacy, absolutely, you could see that in some of the comments here...
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You have to laugh at some of the comments here... There is a real possibility that Moorer could beat and outbox Tyson in the 90s, he was a very underrated champ with decent power, movement and skills... Glass chin my ass, he got ko by Foreman, the most strongest and harder hitter HW of all time, and after disappeared into alcoholism and got ko by Tua, another heavy hitter... Morrison was running and on the bicycle when he fought Old Foreman, in the best shape of his life (confirmed by him), that's why he made it... Could Tyson fight like that? Lol, he would walk into Foreman's bombs, sooner or later it's TKO or KO time... Prime for prime Foreman would brutalize him... Regarding Alex Stewart, i always liked him, underrated, but styles-make-fights in the Stewart-Tyson-Holyfield triangle, plus different times... Agreed with who said that prison time protected Tyson's legacy, absolutely, you could see that in some of the comments here...
Moorer did have a poor chin. The guy was a blown up LHW and tasted the canvas numerous times as a HW. Very good boxer but not near Tyson's level, at least as a HW.