Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Irongrip400 on December 02, 2014, 03:37:36 AM
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What are your thoughts on losing weight while trying to keep as much muscle? Is it better to cut to an immediate, say, 1500 calories, or to gradually step it down? No drugs are being used, steroids or otherwise.
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What are your thoughts on losing weight while trying to keep as much muscle? Is it better to cut to an immediate, say, 1500 calories, or to gradually step it down? No drugs are being used, steroids or otherwise.
if u r not worried about losing some muscle then the big decrease is fine, otherwise id drop slowly and start very far out (5 months or so)so u can hit your peak when u want
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if u r not worried about losing some muscle then the big decrease is fine, otherwise id drop slowly and start very far out (5 months or so)so u can hit your peak when u want
No hate, but I'll take the opposite view.
Drop the calories to 2000ish, keep lifting and moving more, and you'll look 1000x better. Don't worry about losing muscle, you're probably big enough anyway, and most of the weight you'll lose will be water and fat.
This game is a marathon. If you don't like the way it turns out, eat more and lift and you'll get bigger again. But the gradual decrease puts you in no man's land.
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Its common sense to lower gradually.
Start easy then decrease cals/up your cardio as you progress....
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No hate, but I'll take the opposite view.
Drop the calories to 2000ish, keep lifting and moving more, and you'll look 1000x better. Don't worry about losing muscle, you're probably big enough anyway, and most of the weight you'll lose will be water and fat.
This game is a marathon. If you don't like the way it turns out, eat more and lift and you'll get bigger again. But the gradual decrease puts you in no man's land.
the only way i ever looked decent was when i went zero carbs, ive tried almost every other way and i never quite got the look i wanted. when i went zero carbs i looked like a greek statue,dont get me wrong i was never a big guy but as far as being hard it really worked well for me. my buddy just gets flat and scrawny from my diet with no carbs though, i think trial and error is what it comes down to, some guys can get ripped eating 7000calories a day while guys like me will get smooth with 2500calories even when im active,if i cut the carbs though i can keep my calories alittle higher and still get hard,if i tried cutting out all fats and sugers and was at 2500calories id get smooth,everything with me is carbs,i guess i just got a weird metobolism
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the only way i ever looked decent was when i went zero carbs, ive tried almost every other way and i never quite got the look i wanted. when i went zero carbs i looked like a greek statue,dont get me wrong i was never a big guy but as far as being hard it really worked well for me. my buddy just gets flat and scrawny from my diet with no carbs though, i think trial and error is what it comes down to, some guys can get ripped eating 7000calories a day while guys like me will get smooth with 2500calories even when im active,if i cut the carbs though i can keep my calories alittle higher and still get hard,if i tried cutting out all fats and sugers and was at 2500calories id get smooth,everything with me is carbs,i guess i just got a weird metobolism
I agree it's trial and error for the individual.
irongrip's a big guy. I just think he should lean out and not get too cute with it. It get over thought alot.
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I agree it's trial and error for the individual.
irongrip's a big guy. I just think he should lean out and not get too cute with it. It get over thought alot.
thats true,irongrips got enough muscle that even if he lost some thru diet hed still b a monster.
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I'm a jump into the deep end of the pool kinda guy.
That walking into the swallow end little by little crap is for broads and homos.
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why wait?just crash the diet and save lots of time
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Measure the skin fold of your waist every morning 3 times and note the average.
If lower or equal to the previous day, change nothing, else lower your carb & fat kcals by 2-3%
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What are your thoughts on losing weight while trying to keep as much muscle? Is it better to cut to an immediate, say, 1500 calories, or to gradually step it down? No drugs are being used, steroids or otherwise.
It depends on your age, if you're over 35 then I suggest you step it down gradually.
WoooSSHHHHHHHH Beyeke
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What are your thoughts on losing weight while trying to keep as much muscle? Is it better to cut to an immediate, say, 1500 calories, or to gradually step it down? No drugs are being used, steroids or otherwise.
It depends on how you want to diet. Both approaches can work.
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I like to start with 2 weeks of low calls to make the hunger come back.
Or else i can't est half my meals of clean food lol
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It depends on your age, if you're over 35 then I suggest you step it down gradually.
WoooSSHHHHHHHH Beyeke
LOL, what kind of broscience shit is that?
Uh pardon, I answered my own question.
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DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH DROPPING CALORIE SLOWLY BULLSHIT !!!
GO TO AT LEAST 1000 CALORIE DEFICIT RIGHT FROM THE START !!!
2000 CALORIE SHOULD BE ABOUT RIGHT FOR A MALE WHO TRAIN WITH WEIGHT AND DO CARDIO.
DROPPING THE CALORIE GRADUALLY JUST TAKE TO LONG OF A TIME TO GET LEAN AND YOU MIGHT STOP BEFORE YOU GET TO YOUR GOAL!!!
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if u r not worried about losing some muscle then the big decrease is fine, otherwise id drop slowly and start very far out (5 months or so)so u can hit your peak when u want
This x 2 and it depends how much fat you need to lose.
In my case, I opted to cut off my head and immediately lost several lbs of ugly fat.
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go hard or go home
no pussy ass shit
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In my experience there is no reason to slowly decrease calories. Just drop them down and get lean as fast as possible. If you are training hard you won't lose nearly as much muscle as you think and you will get to where you wanna be much faster. You will be really hungry the first few days and may not feel as strong but the idea is to get to the bodyfat you want to be at, then go from there. Id also like to note that dropping my carbs down is the only way Ive ever been able to get lean and harder looking. Has anyone here tried like a 3 week keto diet with 1-2 refeeds per week? I've always been curious about a short strict keto diet since Im not one for long dieting...i like to live too much!
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Eat every 2nd day, so easy to slim down ;)
Don't follow TV/media, relocate to non commercial location (isolated farm)
Just watch porn on DVD's.
;D
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Eat every 2nd day, so easy to slim down ;)
Don't follow TV/media, relocate to non commercial location (isolated farm)
Just watch porn on DVD's.
;D
I've actually been curious about intermittent fasting for a while now. I always thought it would better to try eating maybe 2 large meals every day. Like breakfast and dinner. I haven't bought into the 6 smaller meals theory for a few years now and I feel much better eating larger less frequent meals throughout the day. I actually feel that I look a little better. I also cut out all fart powder and supplement garbage. And guess what, no difference either! If I'm in a pinch i might buy a protein bar now and then but thats it. I also take a multivitamin every day. It's crazy how the supplement industry fabricates pure shit and spoon feed it to people to the tune of millions.
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In before TA shows up to tell us that you don't need to drop calories at all to lose weight.
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I agree it's trial and error for the individual.
irongrip's a big guy. I just think he should lean out and not get too cute with it. It get over thought alot.
Haha, yes, as noted in the "bigger guy roll call" thread.
Seriously though, I'm going to drop to 2000 a day for a few weeks,then try to drop and hold at 1800 a day until I get the look desired. Will post thong pics when I get ripped ( no homo).
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Haha, yes, as noted in the "bigger guy roll call" thread.
Seriously though, I'm going to drop to 2000 a day for a few weeks,then try to drop and hold at 1800 a day until I get the look desired. Will post thong pics when I get ripped ( no homo).
Good move. You won't lose muscle. You'll feel like it, but it will be minimal. Up the movement too.
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this is not the way to do intermittent fasting i.e. eating a large meal upon waking and then another one more than 8 hours later. you're never really fasted for a decent amount of time.
skip breakfast - your cortisol is at its highest in the morning leading to fat storage - do morning cardio, and if you HAVE to, eat lunch and dinner. otherwise just eat dinner after doing fasted training.
cutting calories gradually makes no sense. just drop as low as you can and subsist exclusively on your minimum required protein. ~800cals.
keto is a finishing touch. cheat meals are not full days of eating. you can get away with a LOT more the leaner you get, and the less you eat the other days.
I'm gonna try this for 3 weeks. I'm not a bigger guy and don't have a ton of fat to lose, but I'd like to get back to 8% and then build from there. I usually play a hockey game once a week and a soccer game once a week so I'll keep carbs reserved for those days.
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It helps tremendously if you understand what happens to your body when you suddenly cut calories.
It sees an upset homeostasis and it immediately realizes that the new deficit that has been taken has to be replaced immediately.
The easiest way for your body to do this is to grab hold of the nearest food it can find, which is muscle tissue. Readily available, hot to the touch, and expendable.
Think about it.
You lower your metabolism and slow your body by 1000 calories, it's gonna find them somewhere.
Gradual is the answer.
Start out by cutting the garbage first, the the types of carbs, which are usually included in the 'garbage'
Your body isn't going to just automatically adjust to a lower fuel intake. This is why extremely fat people can say "I eat like a bird and I still gain fat"
Yes, they do, and they will. Their bodies have become fat-storing machines. They are still gonna store fat regardless of the intake associated.
If you worked hard for the muscle you've gained, you'd better work just as hard to try and save it while you try to get your body to burn off excess fat.
It's not an easy task. This is why there aren't that many people who are extremely fit. High muscle content and low bodyfat levels.
More often we see either "thin-fatties" or Perma-Bulkers.
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I'm more interested in different types of fasting....not Necesarily a large calorie deficit. I have experimented with diets before that resulted in my metabolism slowing way down. I did a diet once with lower carbs, high protein and low fat. Fat was too low and I got lean down to a certain point, but then hit a wall, had no energy and couldn't get any leaner. My test levels probably were very low. It was a mess and I ended up binging for about a month just to kick start them again. I am natural btw so that May have played a role. I do understand what you're saying about creating a small calorie deficit and dropping the calories about 100 per week till you meet your goal. I also think this May be more important for naturals. I'm just interested in intermittent fasting because eating 2-3 times a day fits my lifestyle much better than 6 times a day. I have a teenager in the house so I'm always on the run. I know this isn't an excuse but if I want to experiment just to see if I can make it work.
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@Dyslexic: I can't say it much better than this
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NO ONE needs to come sort all this nonsense out.
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Just yesterday, I jumped from between 2400-2700 a day to under 1800. I can't imagine why someone would gradually decrease to a figure they're hoping to arrive at (calorie wise) in the near future.
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Just yesterday, I jumped from between 2400-2700 a day to under 1800. I can't imagine why someone would gradually decrease to a figure they're hoping to arrive at (calorie wise) in the near future.
Dys explained this very well.
When you eat like a bird, you will end like a bird..
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Dys explained this very well.
When you eat like a bird, you will end like a bird..
What Dys is describing is Gluconeogenesis, the body converting Protein to glucose.
By upping the protein and not completely eliminating carbs, you should be able to spare the muscle when dropping the cals.
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Gradually. don't rush anything.
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What Dys is describing is Gluconeogenesis, the body converting Protein to glucose.
By upping the protein and not completely eliminating carbs, you should be able to spare the muscle when dropping the cals.
Well said, but I see no reason to go this drastic, other than those 3-5 days of depleting before a show or whatever. I was able to reach 4%bf with a little over 500 gr of clean carbs, simply by measuring a skinfold every morning.
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Guys well read on the topic all say gradually. I think I'll go with them instead of message board gurus
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LOL, what kind of broscience shit is that?
Uh pardon, I answered my own question.
Broscience LOL.
Obviously you have no idea who are you talking to ....
WooosHHHHHHHHHHHH Beyeke
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Well said, but I see no reason to go this drastic, other than those 3-5 days of depleting before a show or whatever. I was able to reach 4%bf with a little over 500 gr of clean carbs, simply by measuring a skinfold every morning.
No you didn't.
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use t3 all the time and drop calories as low as you want immediately
problem solved
why complicate things when you can just use drugs
this is bodybuilding after all :D :D
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Like most things in life, you don't want to shoot your load all in one go. Take it slowly. No need to rush because you'll just hit a plateau faster.
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Drop the fork you fat piece of shit, that's all that is required.
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No you didn't.
Guess what...
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Guys well read on the topic all say gradually. I think I'll go with them instead of message board gurus
No, they don't. If they know what they are talking about the answer will be: it depends.
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Guess what...
So you'll post a graph of your skinfold measurements but you have never posted an actual picture of yourself? Oh brother, everyone can see you're all talk
And spare me the "I'm not interested in posting pictures for men" response... that's a cop-out and you know it
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No, they don't. If they know what they are talking about the answer will be: it depends.
As much as I don't like arrogant Layne Norton, he has credentials and also a reputation to live up to, so I happen to believe what he and other guys like Alan Aragon have to say about dieting. Do you disagree with anything they've said here?
http://www.predatornutrition.com/en/content/ask-the-experts-fat-loss-special/
Question 1 - What is the most important determinant of fat loss?
Layne Norton - Well there are a lot of things but the biggest thing is to make sure that you are in a caloric deficit. Obviously protein/carb/fat breakdown is going to heavily influence substrate utilization and exercise is important to maintain muscle mass but at the end of the day if you aren't oxidizing more than you take in you won't be seeing significantly fat loss in most cases.
Alan Aragon - The most important thing is to sustain a caloric deficit over a prolonged period. The deficit will periodically close up, and plateaus in fat loss will occur, and getting past those plateaus is a matter of re-
opening the deficit with either a further decrease in intake, increase in training output, or both.
Question 3 - What's the biggest misconception most athletes have about getting in shape?
Layne Norton - That you can do it quick. I see guys who have 40 lbs of fat to lose and think they can just drop it in 12 weeks. Yea you might be able to drop 40 lbs but you are going to lose muscle and you are going to put it back on really fast when you go back to normal eating.
Alan Aragon - The most common misconception is that it can be done quickly and easily as long as the right "secret tactics" or "special foods" are used. The reality is that, for the most part, getting in shape is an epic test of consistency, will, discipline, and diligence. There are no short-cuts. If someone lacks the incredibly high degree of motivation and resolve to succeed, it's not gonna happen.
"The more extreme the methods used to achieve fat loss... the more extreme the rebound will be. Lose it slow, eat a variety of foods, and diet on as many calories as you can. When you are done, SLOWLY add calories back in. Few people actually do this and that is why ~95% of diets fail to produce long term fat loss."
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So you'll post a graph of your skinfold measurements but you have never posted an actual picture of yourself? Oh brother, everyone can see you're all talk
And spare me the "I'm not interested in posting pictures for men" response... that's a cop-out and you know it
Fair is fair, childish "post a picture or I call bs" comments deserve childish responses.
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It's not that complicated. Go watch the show "Naked And Afraid"
One month and most of them eat NOTHING. They lose minimal amounts of muscle relative to fat.
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Dude is fat.
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As much as I don't like arrogant Layne Norton, he has credentials and also a reputation to live up to, so I happen to believe what he and other guys like Alan Aragon have to say about dieting. Do you disagree with anything they've said here?
As I said it depends. For example, a very obese person can drop calories very aggressively from the start of diet to get the fat loss going and to create a positive momentum (=they get motivated when they start seeing results quickly) then later on they can reduce the caloric deficit and use a more moderate approach.
Or someone who is lean can for a short time use an aggressive approach if he for whatever reason needs to drop fat quickly. Will there be a higher risk of a rebound? Yes, but if for example the person is dieting for a wedding/specific date it might be worth it anyways. The goal might not be long term fat loss.
I can mention several more scenarios but the point is that you have to consider a bunch of factors (time frame/starting point/psychology/contest prep or not etc etc) so the answer will be: it depends.
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Get rid of fat is something that just should get done!
U can choose to make it long or short!
END OF DISCUSSION!
U could probably just quit your fucking weighttraining for 2 moths and just focus on cardio 3houers/Day. When the fat is gone, u could begine to lift again! "LOSING MASS" is just fucking bullshit! MASS = fat water and muscles filled with carbs!
U will notice this once u tried to diet several times with several methods. U will alwaysend up at the same bodyweight no matter how u do it! If u do drugs its another story!
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Dude is fat.
Yeah! Great! Listen to the fat man on roids, he seem to know it all... ::)
Rule Nr 1. If people cant take care of their own bodies, they should shut the fuck up! It u cant practice what you learn on your own body why the hell should anyone listen to u...
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Fair is fair, childish "post a picture or I call bs" comments deserve childish responses.
That's what I thought.... the 4% shredded beast "chooses" not to post pictures ::)
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As I said it depends. For example, a very obese person can drop calories very aggressively from the start of diet to get the fat loss going and to create a positive momentum (=they get motivated when they start seeing results quickly) then later on they can reduce the caloric deficit and use a more moderate approach.
Or someone who is lean can for a short time use an aggressive approach if he for whatever reason needs to drop fat quickly. Will there be a higher risk of a rebound? Yes, but if for example the person is dieting for a wedding/specific date it might be worth it anyways. The goal might not be long term fat loss.
I can mention several more scenarios but the point is that you have to consider a bunch of factors (time frame/starting point/psychology/contest prep or not etc etc) so the answer will be: it depends.
I agree with most of what you said although I was talking about it from a bodybuilding point of view of keeping the most muscle like the OP stated. I couldn't imagine the average Joe would aggressively cut calories if they knew in the long run they had a better chance of gaining it back. I guess that's just not my style since I'm in it for the long haul, but I guess people nowadays are impatient and want results now instead of later. It reminds me of the average overweight american trying to trim down so he can squeeze into his 40" waist husky fit Dockers before his Christmas party for work but once it's over, he won't give a fuck and most likely gain it back plus more with a now slower metabolism.
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That's what I thought.... the 4% shredded beast "chooses" not to post pictures ::)
I understand not wanting to post your face, but if you're gonna claim you were 4% then you should at least post a pic to back it up. Blur out your face or whatever. Having thousands of posts on here doesn't mean anything to anyone and nobody is just gonna take your word for it if you claim to be that fit.
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It helps tremendously if you understand what happens to your body when you suddenly cut calories.
It sees an upset homeostasis and it immediately realizes that the new deficit that has been taken has to be replaced immediately.
The easiest way for your body to do this is to grab hold of the nearest food it can find, which is muscle tissue. Readily available, hot to the touch, and expendable.
(METHOD101 SAYS: HAHAHA THIS IS FUCKING ULTIMATE BRO-SCIENCE GARBAGE PROBABLY FROM T-NATION OR SOME PALEO DIET FORUM.)
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Think about it.
You lower your metabolism and slow your body by 1000 calories, it's gonna find them somewhere.
Gradual is the answer.
Start out by cutting the garbage first, the the types of carbs, which are usually included in the 'garbage'
Your body isn't going to just automatically adjust to a lower fuel intake. This is why extremely fat people can say "I eat like a bird and I still gain fat"
Yes, they do, and they will. Their bodies have become fat-storing machines. They are still gonna store fat regardless of the intake associated.
If you worked hard for the muscle you've gained, you'd better work just as hard to try and save it while you try to get your body to burn off excess fat.
It's not an easy task. This is why there aren't that many people who are extremely fit. High muscle content and low bodyfat levels.
More often we see either "thin-fatties" or Perma-Bulkers.
Your post is so full of bro-science and unscientific garbage it's laughable.
First of all your body does not first look to muscle tissue in the event of an extended caloric deficit no matter how large, the first port of call will be the glycogen reserves, followed by the fat reserves. Out of those 3 fuel sources muscle tissue is the least efficient and the last priority for the body. Yes you will lose a very small amount of muscle tissue but this will always be dwarfed by the fat tissue which the body prefers to burn.
Numerous studies have shown that you do not become a "fat storing machine" after a long caloric deficit. Your metabolism returns to it's normal state within 1-2 months of returning calories to maintenance level no matter how long your 1000 caloric deficit per day has lasted.
METABOLIC DAMAGE IS BULLSHIT THAT HAS ONLY ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT.
IF YOU DON'T DROP YOUR CALORIES BY 1000 ON THE FIRST DAY OF YOUR DIET THEN YOU ARE JUST WASTING YOUR TIME AND THERE IS NO NEED TO GRADUALLY INCREASE THEM AFTERWARDS EITHER.
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I understand not wanting to post your face, but if you're gonna claim you were 4% then you should at least post a pic to back it up. Blur out your face or whatever. Having thousands of posts on here doesn't mean anything to anyone and nobody is just gonna take your word for it if you claim to be that fit.
Bingo. The only ones who never post a picture are the ones whose physique doesn't match their claims, PERIOD. 4% oh brother ::)
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I agree with most of what you said although I was talking about it from a bodybuilding point of view of keeping the most muscle like the OP stated. I couldn't imagine the average Joe would aggressively cut calories if they knew in the long run they had a better chance of gaining it back. I guess that's just not my style since I'm in it for the long haul, but I guess people nowadays are impatient and want results now instead of later. It reminds me of the average overweight american trying to trim down so he can squeeze into his 40" waist husky fit Dockers before his Christmas party for work but once it's over, he won't give a fuck and most likely gain it back plus more with a now slower metabolism.
Generally crash dieting sucks if you are already fairly lean because usually people just gain back the weight very quickly (even if it works in the short-term). It's a quick fix. For example if you use an approach such as Lyle Mcdonalds RFL you can run it for maybe 10-14 days if you are leady lean. The fatter you are the longer can you run it without getting into trouble. Done correctly you will lose minimal amount of muscle. But what happens to most people is that they very quickly rebound. But if it's used to kickstart a diet for an obese person, it can work really well.
If you are doing a competition prep then most people will spend like 12-16-20 weeks on the prep and take their time to lose fat. That's the best approach for most people. But you also have guys like Disgusted who cut calories pretty aggressively from the start and from what I understand he has had plenty of success using that approach. Obvsiouly how fat you are at the start of the diet is a factor.
Some competitive bodybuilders also don't care about staying lean when they aren't competing, this may also have an effect on how you diet during the contest prep. That can be compared to for example a recreational bodybuilder who wants to stay lean year around.
Etc etc.
At the end of the day, if you want to diet down and stay lean then you have to make long-term changes to your diet. This is where most people fail, dieting down is fairly basic, just find something you can stick to (with sufficient protein, proper training etc). But what happens after you finish the diet? That is the hard part.
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Dude is fat.
Every dietician is.
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Generally crash dieting sucks if you are already fairly lean because usually people just gain back the weight very quickly (even if it works in the short-term). It's a quick fix. For example if you use an approach such as Lyle Mcdonalds RFL you can run it for maybe 10-14 days if you are leady lean. The fatter you are the longer can you run it without getting into trouble. Done correctly you will lose minimal amount of muscle. But what happens to most people is that they very quickly rebound. But if it's used to kickstart a diet for an obese person, it can work really well.
If you are doing a competition prep then most people will spend like 12-16-20 weeks on the prep and take their time to lose fat. That's the best approach for most people. But you also have guys like Disgusted who cut calories pretty aggressively from the start and from what I understand he has had plenty of success using that approach. Obvsiouly how fat you are at the start of the diet is a factor.
Some competitive bodybuilders also don't care about staying lean when they aren't competing, this may also have an effect on how you diet during the contest prep. That can be compared to for example a recreational bodybuilder who wants to stay lean year around.
Etc etc.
At the end of the day, if you want to diet down and stay lean then you have to make long-term changes to your diet. This is where most people fail, dieting down is fairly basic, just find something you can stick to (with sufficient protein, proper training etc). But what happens after you finish the diet? That is the hard part.
True dat. After getting down to the bodyfat or weight goals if they even get there, I think the biggest mistake people make is increasing calories too quickly. The wedding's over so it's back to eating Big Macs. That's where I'm sure most crash dieting non-athletes go wrong and become even more discouraged.
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That's what I thought.... the 4% shredded beast "chooses" not to post pictures ::)
You suffer from a midlife crisis?
I understand not wanting to post your face, but if you're gonna claim you were 4% then you should at least post a pic to back it up. Blur out your face or whatever. Having thousands of posts on here doesn't mean anything to anyone and nobody is just gonna take your word for it if you claim to be that fit.
This is a discussion thread not Facebook or Instagram. It's up to others to agree or not with my thoughts on this subject.
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Dude is fat.
He did diet down at some point:
(http://renaissanceperiodization.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Mike1.jpg)
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He did diet down at some point:
(http://renaissanceperiodization.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Mike1.jpg)
whoever that is in this pic looks pretty solid imo,pretty balanced and good size to boot,amazing delts
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whoever that is in this pic looks pretty solid imo,pretty balanced and good size to boot,amazing delts
Mike Israetel; the guy in the youtube vids on p. 2.
http://jtsstrength.com/articles/2014/07/02/laws-optimizing-body-composition/
Doesn't get a good rating from his student(s) though:
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1884143
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He did diet down at some point:
(http://renaissanceperiodization.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Mike1.jpg)
Little bit of gyno there.
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thats still fat for a wannabe bodybuilder.