Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Jizmo on December 18, 2014, 10:41:59 AM
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Experienced users please speak
anyone tried it? how were your gains off insulin with AAS but no GH?
im not yet really convinced of the benefits of low- moderate dosage of GH _FOR MUSCLE GROWTH_ (sure the fatloss benefits are there etc) and since 10iu+ (where there should be cell proliferation) is not in my budget, GH is not really in the question for me right now.
AAS hugely increase protein turnover, just like t3. of course AAS tip it more into the direction of protein synthesis, resulting in anabolism.
but how about insulin. theoretically and logically this should be pretty much the most anti catabolic (and therefore of course anabolism promoting) compound ever, add in a good dose of AAS and you should have both anti catabolism and anabolism covered quite well
ive not made any experiences with slin but since its so incredibly cheap i thought about experimenting with it
would only use minor amounts of humalog or novorapid (so the fastest ones) pre workout and probaby only 2-3 times a week with sufficient off periods
diet is dialed in, would run it with loads of test and tren and some t3 too so fat gain shouldnt be an issue even without GH
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Just made a thread asking the same thing a few days ago.
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damn, didnt see
brb reading
not much info on that topic unfortunately
what concerns me most is that insulin itself MIGHT cause insulin insensitivity
insulin sensitivity is a key player in good body composition imo
also one of the reasons id stay clear of high dose HGH... causes insulin resistance bigtime at bodybuilding dosages...
however it is nearly impossible to find evidence that ACUTE hyperinsulinemia might cause ANY kind of insulin resistance or insensitivity (and by acute i mean for 2-3 hours as with a rapid insulin analogue. thats essentially what a postprandial insulin spike after a meal looks like, albeit higher dosage)
research is nearly ALWAYS on CHRONIC hyperinsulinemia
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Ive been running 10-15, somedays 20ius pre-workout no GH for a few weeks and have put on some size and definite strength gains. I will be adding GH back in next week, my diet is not the strictest either, I was worried about getting fat and it hasnt happened. I am running 1500-1800 test a week and 800-1gram eq.
Chubz
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I believe that artificial insulin as different tolerance to the stuff you produce yourself. So you get tolerant to the artificial insulin not insulin in general
This is why they give type 2 diabetics insulin- they are not resistant to it!
I may be wrong though
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If you see my cycle thread with my products you can see the insulin but no HGH because I can;t find any quality HGH so I just started using the Insulin without HGH of course I am using a few anabolics but absolutely no HGH yet wich sucks. so right now this is what I switched to since my acne got so bad
300mg Test cyp a week
I dropped the NPP
300mg of Primo a week- just started that today and I plan to raise the dosage just have to be careful with the first vial because I spent a shitload of money might not be able to drop alot of money on juice for a few weeks.
300mg Test prop a week
winstrol- 50-100mg daily
so I am just running the Insulin when I train Chest and legs so twice a week I use Insulin. Ive only been doing This for a few weeks I use Novolin-R 10- units(what I mean b y that is my insulin syringes are very good they go 5-10-15 all the way to 100 I draw to the 10Unit mark and inject. about a hour before I workout(I do bring food with me to the gym and diffrent juices) always prepare for anything that could happen
after I workout I eat a small meal shoot another 10-12 Units of insulin and then eat a pretty decent size dinner. What I notice is crazy pumps during my workout and my strength is way up on those training days, I use alot of muscles when I train chest(everybody does) so I get a crazy pump, training legs (same thing) everybody is working alot of muscle so just insane muscle pumps and increased strength ,inscreased stamina.
I am not a pro on how to use Insulin but I do know enough to where I won't get sick. As long as you time your meals right the user will be fine. Alot of problem with insulin is the kind of slin needles some people get they wind up shooting 100Units instead of 10 units another problem is a person won't eat correctly.
Like I said I am by far a pro when it comes to Insulin usage but I will do more research and nail this down but so far it has worked out fine for me. It sounds scary using Insulin daily but that is why I only use it twice a week. if I was on a ton of HGH and was competing I would use insulin daily if I had to but that day probably isn't going to come.
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Experienced users please speak
anyone tried it? how were your gains off insulin with AAS but no GH?
im not yet really convinced of the benefits of low- moderate dosage of GH _FOR MUSCLE GROWTH_ (sure the fatloss benefits are there etc) and since 10iu+ (where there should be cell proliferation) is not in my budget, GH is not really in the question for me right now.
AAS hugely increase protein turnover, just like t3. of course AAS tip it more into the direction of protein synthesis, resulting in anabolism.
but how about insulin. theoretically and logically this should be pretty much the most anti catabolic (and therefore of course anabolism promoting) compound ever, add in a good dose of AAS and you should have both anti catabolism and anabolism covered quite well
ive not made any experiences with slin but since its so incredibly cheap i thought about experimenting with it
would only use minor amounts of humalog or novorapid (so the fastest ones) pre workout and probaby only 2-3 times a week with sufficient off periods
diet is dialed in, would run it with loads of test and tren and some t3 too so fat gain shouldnt be an issue even without GH
actually the price of Insulin has gone up dramatically. I am talking about the kinds you can buy over the counter but even the prescription stuff is getting spendy from what the pharmacist told me. when you go to the pharmacy the Humilin-R is in a 10ml vial with 100 units/ml and they want over 100$. It is a shitload of Insulin but it used to be like 30$, There is ONE pharmacy that sells the Novolin-R I have in my pictures for about 25$ but only that one pharmacy the same shit sells for 100-120$ at other pharmacys. You can find 3ML vials at walgreens of Humilin-R for about 55$
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If you see my cycle thread with my products you can see the insulin but no HGH because I can;t find any quality HGH so I just started using the Insulin without HGH of course I am using a few anabolics but absolutely no HGH yet wich sucks. so right now this is what I switched to since my acne got so bad
300mg Test cyp a week
I dropped the NPP
300mg of Primo a week- just started that today and I plan to raise the dosage just have to be careful with the first vial because I spent a shitload of money might not be able to drop alot of money on juice for a few weeks.
300mg Test prop a week
winstrol- 50-100mg daily
so I am just running the Insulin when I train Chest and legs so twice a week I use Insulin. Ive only been doing This for a few weeks I use Novolin-R 10- units(what I mean b y that is my insulin syringes are very good they go 5-10-15 all the way to 100 I draw to the 10Unit mark and inject. about a hour before I workout(I do bring food with me to the gym and diffrent juices) always prepare for anything that could happen
after I workout I eat a small meal shoot another 10-12 Units of insulin and then eat a pretty decent size dinner. What I notice is crazy pumps during my workout and my strength is way up on those training days, I use alot of muscles when I train chest(everybody does) so I get a crazy pump, training legs (same thing) everybody is working alot of muscle so just insane muscle pumps and increased strength ,inscreased stamina.
I am not a pro on how to use Insulin but I do know enough to where I won't get sick. As long as you time your meals right the user will be fine. Alot of problem with insulin is the kind of slin needles some people get they wind up shooting 100Units instead of 10 units another problem is a person won't eat correctly.
Like I said I am by far a pro when it comes to Insulin usage but I will do more research and nail this down but so far it has worked out fine for me. It sounds scary using Insulin daily but that is why I only use it twice a week. if I was on a ton of HGH and was competing I would use insulin daily if I had to but that day probably isn't going to come.
How many carbohydrates are you eating in your pre workout meal?
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How many carbohydrates are you eating in your pre workout meal?
Not very many at all! I will do a regular macro meal 45/45/10. But like I said I do bring food with me and I do have high clycemic foods with me like white rise,potatoes -shit like that. I have only done this for 2 weeks so far and have had zero issues but I know it would be optimal to have a intra-workout drink with some waxy maize in it as well as some BCAA's. Max Muscle makes a great INtra workout product called A.R.M it is actually post workout but you can drink it Intra and that would probably be very optimal due to the waxy maize and the other nutrients it has.Tghe pump would be even crazier. I carry gatorade on me and also i usually have 100% grapefruit juice on me. I am on a really good diet so I always have some good nutrienst filling my muscles.
With Insulin your going to have very good nutrient absorption so that is why the pumps are crazy. I could easly see somebody using slin every workpout especially with HGH but I can cutt myself down to 2 days a week. I only plan on doing the insulin without HGH for another week or twp mainly just impressing everybody around christmas. I am around aot of family and I love being the freakiest out of everybody(sounds retarded) and it is, but that is how some of us think. To me Insulin is no big deal! as long as you can control yourself, don;t use it for more then a few days a week and jst eat right and be smart
Our bodys are VERY LAZY and once we start adding synthetic hormones your body will eventually not make it on your own so def be careful-1-2 days a week will not hurt you but don't do it everyday unless you compete for money.
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ive looked at pubmed studies on exogenous insulin for 4 hours nonstop yesterday and could not fine a SINGLE evidence of exogenous insulin causing insulin resistance or insensitivity UNLESS it was chronic hyperinsulinemia instead of acute.
also no evidence of receptor downregulation whatsoever
i mean after a meal your endogenous insulin is elevated for easily 2 hours and only reaches base after about 4 hours so thats pretty much the same as with exogenous insulin
also 10iu is not a huge dosage...
ive seen a study where 75g of glucose caused an insulin output (ENDOGENOUS) of what equalled 12iu EXOGENOUS insulin during the 2 hours after the glucose "meal". yeah 12iu from 75g glucose. on average they produced 27iu a day though so with mixed meals its WAY less than that.
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Experienced users please speak
anyone tried it? how were your gains off insulin with AAS but no GH?
im not yet really convinced of the benefits of low- moderate dosage of GH _FOR MUSCLE GROWTH_ (sure the fatloss benefits are there etc) and since 10iu+ (where there should be cell proliferation) is not in my budget, GH is not really in the question for me right now.
AAS hugely increase protein turnover, just like t3. of course AAS tip it more into the direction of protein synthesis, resulting in anabolism.
but how about insulin. theoretically and logically this should be pretty much the most anti catabolic (and therefore of course anabolism promoting) compound ever, add in a good dose of AAS and you should have both anti catabolism and anabolism covered quite well
ive not made any experiences with slin but since its so incredibly cheap i thought about experimenting with it
would only use minor amounts of humalog or novorapid (so the fastest ones) pre workout and probaby only 2-3 times a week with sufficient off periods
diet is dialed in, would run it with loads of test and tren and some t3 too so fat gain shouldnt be an issue even without GH
enjoy the pumps, but that will not put on any mass bro. Gotta pin slin at least twice a day to see any real gains. and more than 2-3 times a week. I don't think you need to worrry about getting fat..
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ive looked at pubmed studies on exogenous insulin for 4 hours nonstop yesterday and could not fine a SINGLE evidence of exogenous insulin causing insulin resistance or insensitivity UNLESS it was chronic hyperinsulinemia instead of acute.
also no evidence of receptor downregulation whatsoever
i mean after a meal your endogenous insulin is elevated for easily 2 hours and only reaches base after about 4 hours so thats pretty much the same as with exogenous insulin
also 10iu is not a huge dosage...
ive seen a study where 75g of glucose caused an insulin output (ENDOGENOUS) of what equalled 12iu EXOGENOUS insulin during the 2 hours after the glucose "meal". yeah 12iu from 75g glucose. on average they produced 27iu a day though so with mixed meals its WAY less than that.
Oh for sure I know that but I just got started using it and I just go with what my prep guy tells me. Since today was literally my 4th time ever using insulin of course I started my shots that low.I do more then 1 shot of Insulin on those 2 training day. I did 3 yesterday. each one was 10IU-12-IU. with anything you want to start low and taper up. If your on a great diet and shoot that Insulin and go train real hard you will see the diffrence!
#1 Insulin is the most anabolic hormone in our body! correct? so yes it will work as a stand alone but to get the best synergistic effect it should be used with HGH.
I don't know about some of those studies. I am not doubting them but sometimes I find it hard to believe the body will not get lazy and will start producing insulin right away. I do believe the articles you read I just feel safer for now using the Insulin on chest day and leg day. From what I was told by prep guy I use and a few others I know is the body can get lazy when you are using synthetic drugs and likes to rely on the synthetic drug and insulin isn;t anything you want to fuck around with although it might be 100% fine like the articles you read, it isn;t anything I have personally studied but I have been told to stay away from Insulin and evertytime I try to make comments like so and so used Insulin for years and their not diabetic or became insulin depedant they always nod their head.
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I've fooled around with it, didn't find it to be worth the hassle. Chubz is a straight-shooter who really knows his bodybuilding so at least its worked for someone
As for insulin resistance, just check your fasting blood glucose regularly. If it creeps over 100, cool it with the carbs/slin
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I've fooled around with it, didn't find it to be worth the hassle. Chubz is a straight-shooter who really knows his bodybuilding so at least its worked for someone
As for insulin resistance, just check your fasting blood glucose regularly. If it creeps over 100, cool it with the carbs/slin
yeah i just bought a glucose meter and blood pressure thing yesterday
blood pressure is kinda high (135/75) but thats to be expected on test tren npp and t3 lol
blood sugar was very low, 68 in the morning so i think i could abuse slin quite a bit judging from that ;D
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I've fooled around with it, didn't find it to be worth the hassle. Chubz is a straight-shooter who really knows his bodybuilding so at least its worked for someone
As for insulin resistance, just check your fasting blood glucose regularly. If it creeps over 100, cool it with the carbs/slin
Thanks for the props :)
Sometimes we over think things, read to many articles/science etc...... sometimes you just have to try and see what works. Its been working for me and like I say my diet has been lees than desirable, Ive blown up and not in a bad way. If it matters my training partner is Justin Harris and even he has been amazed at my recent gains
Chubz
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yeah i just bought a glucose meter and blood pressure thing yesterday
blood pressure is kinda high (135/75) but thats to be expected on test tren npp and t3 lol
blood sugar was very low, 68 in the morning so i think i could abuse slin quite a bit judging from that ;D
That blood pressure isn;t that bad and that is a great fasted blood sugar reading. last time I did one I was a bit over 100. I did have some sugar but not much! I guess I wasn;t 100% fasted but pretty close.
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That blood pressure isn;t that bad and that is a great fasted blood sugar reading. last time I did one I was a bit over 100. I did have some sugar but not much! I guess I wasn;t 100% fasted but pretty close.
you have to be absolutely fasted and measure first thing in the morning if you want it to be accurate
just 10g of sugar will greatly change it for 1-2 hours
today BP was 124/70 so actually fine
not sure about the blood sugar but i measured twice because first time i got a reading of 90, second time 72
that thing doesnt seem to be very accurate or i shouldve washed my hands before maybe
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you have to be absolutely fasted and measure first thing in the morning if you want it to be accurate
just 10g of sugar will greatly change it for 1-2 hours
today BP was 124/70 so actually fine
not sure about the blood sugar but i measured twice because first time i got a reading of 90, second time 72
that thing doesnt seem to be very accurate or i shouldve washed my hands before maybe
do you own a Omron BP machine? I got a pretty expensive Omron BP machine at walgreens and it seems to be hit and miss alot of the time. I can change every minute on those omrons. very odd and unreliable.
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do you own a Omron BP machine? I got a pretty expensive Omron BP machine at walgreens and it seems to be hit and miss alot of the time. I can change every minute on those omrons. very odd and unreliable.
mine is german, from beurer
it was only 30$ but what pisses me off is the cost of the strips, 20$ for 50 strips
gets expensive when you have to measure 3 times each time to get an accurate reading lol
ill just measure twice every morning and take the average
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ive looked at pubmed studies on exogenous insulin for 4 hours nonstop yesterday and could not fine a SINGLE evidence of exogenous insulin causing insulin resistance or insensitivity UNLESS it was chronic hyperinsulinemia instead of acute.
also no evidence of receptor downregulation whatsoever
i mean after a meal your endogenous insulin is elevated for easily 2 hours and only reaches base after about 4 hours so thats pretty much the same as with exogenous insulin
also 10iu is not a huge dosage...
ive seen a study where 75g of glucose caused an insulin output (ENDOGENOUS) of what equalled 12iu EXOGENOUS insulin during the 2 hours after the glucose "meal". yeah 12iu from 75g glucose. on average they produced 27iu a day though so with mixed meals its WAY less than that.
I came to the same conclusion years ago. In fact, with people that are pre-diabetic, using exogenous insulin and glucose disposal agents is said to actually stop the development of Type II Diabetes Mellitus. T2DM is something I think can be stopped if you've just developed it or started to become insensitive to insulin - just make sure to start fasting more often and eating as infrequently as possible. I know that there are a few others who think along the same terms as I do. If you eat infrequently and don't slaughter your pancreas, sensitivity can return unless you've really fucked your body up.
I'm getting super lean and will start using insulin without GH soon. Probably sometime in the month of January. Just a little pre workout along with a waxy maize shake sipped pre- and intra-workout. I normally like training completely fasted, but WMS has a fast gastric emptying rate and I'll be lean enough to afford running this. Maybe I'll run some T3 after I see how I respond. I'll probably just do a few workouts a week with my pre working insulin, then make sure to eat my big meal after my workout. I try fasting for the most part, and then get my meals in after I'm done my workout whenever that happens to be. Last time I played with glucose testing strips my post prandial levels and everything else was on point. Insulin is one of the most powerful hormones, so it makes sense to play to this as a strength and mind it when trying to keep lean or when you want to blow up with muscle.
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What's the difference between waxy maize and dextrose metabolically?
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waxy maize is supposed to have a lower GI but absorbed faster with less GI stress
dunno, ill mix fat free milk with dextrose i guess. 50/50 slow carbs (lactose) with quick carbs (dex) should do the trick
not sure how much ill take though... i guess if i use 10iu then 1 shake with 50g carbs (25g dex 25g lactose from milk) about 15mins later,
then have another shake with 50g (25g dex 25g lac) ready during the workout (which would be about 30mins after slin shot so 15mins after the first shake)... maybe ill just drink that one at the end of the workout or when hypo hits though
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I think waxy maize is actually a product worth having around but be careful buying products like that max muscle ARM stuff I bought it has a good amount of waxy maize and it is their waxy maize product but they throw a bunch of toher shit in it and I felt I got more bloated then I should of but then again I used to buy Vitargo and Vitargo used to not digest so great sometimes it would constipate me but I think that was more the 10mg of Creatine Mono they out in vitargo. I don;t think they even make Nutrex Vitargo anymore but way too much extra non needed shit so if you can just buy straight waxy maize and make your own blend.
Waxy maize useed Intra will give you a crazy painfull pump but I tend to just go the food route these days. I have ingested so many fucking whey proteins and vitargos back in the day I just don't react as well i,I rather just eat food. Plus supplements are expensive it's one thing if you get them for free but if you have to pay for the stuff it can add up. I think the only supplements I take right now Milk thistle,Liv-52, DAA and ,DHEA but that is when I go off for a bit.
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Highly branched cyclic dextrin is better than both dextrose and waxy maize. Absorbed quicker than both, and does not give the full, bloated feeing, much better pumps as well.
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im not paying 30$ for 1000g of fuking carbs...
thats like 1$ if you would just take rice instead
dextrose is like 2$ per lb so im fine with that
will only use 25g per shake anyway
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In the past I would have skipped the WMS, but now that I'm older and a bit more in tune with my diet I notice how much sugar upsets it. Well... 30g of sugar at a time. And all that dextrose is sickly sweet. WMS isn't as sweet and it's a bit thicker too. I plan on just mixing it with some Mio or other water flavouring shit. If I used dextrose it'd just be too sweet, and it'd upset the stomach a little more than I'd like (especially if it's consumed intra workout).\
I still have a ton of WMS that an international student left when they went home. Otherwise I probably wouldn't buy it. I'll just keep an eye out for sales if I take a liking towards it. Will probably order slin sometime in the beginning of the new year. Too busy/tired/cranky to order it now. Will definitely post once I start noticing something worthwhile. I plan on using modest doses a few times a week, that way I get comfortable cranking up the dose for some good lean gains. Already experimented with it years ago but never used the doses necessary for good growth. Was awesome for refeeds though, so I know how powerful it can be even in low doses. Don't fuck around with it. It can be pretty safe, but it can also become dangerous if something unexpected occurs.
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I have been experimenting with pre/intra workout carbs. I will say I really do prefer the HBCD's the best, I get zero bloat. Waxy-maize bloats the hell out of me and makes me feel full/shitty during training. I would pick Karbolyn after the HBCD's. If you want to go cheap good ole gatorade can work just great also and I will sometimes use that when I get cheap.
Chubz
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Guess I'm lucky to stomach 100grams+ dextrose no problems...
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I have been doing that for year and it works great BUT
You have to be lean when you start as in contest ripped lean.
I use 20-40iu a day when i use it.
Right now dieting i use 40iu during my carb up day
Its the only thing that gets me full
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I would never use insulin without HGH but that's just me. I've never tries insulin solo and never will. I'd rather pony up the cash for a few iu's of gh just to be safe.
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I would never use insulin without HGH but that's just me. I've never tries insulin solo and never will. I'd rather pony up the cash for a few iu's of gh just to be safe.
but what is a few units gonna really do??? So expensive for what?
Slin without gh works, I've had lots of buds do it, everyone gets bigger and usually leaner.
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ive been running 15iu pre workout for 2 weeks now and i havent put on a single gram of bodyfat. such bullshit talk insulin makes u fat blahblah.
1g tren helps, but to put on bodyfat on that you have to be fucking retarded lol
the fullness is INSANE btw.
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ive been running 15iu pre workout for 2 weeks now and i havent put on a single gram of bodyfat. such bullshit talk insulin makes u fat blahblah.
1g tren helps, but to put on bodyfat on that you have to be fucking retarded lol
the fullness is INSANE btw.
I agree. Diet might play a small role
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yeah i actually havent changed anything about my diet, just substituted my pre workout meal for a big whey shake and a few sweets (30mins after injecting slin), as i downed the shake i go to the gym (its just 5mins away from my place) and then i actually snack on candy at the locker room and throughout the first 20mins of my workout :D
the looks people give me are funny as fuck. about 30-40 mins later (still intra workout) ill have another whey shake with dextrose.
so basically ill have 15iu slin and then after about 30mins and throughout my workout ill have 150g carbs from nonfat milk, dextrose and glucose syrup/sugar (from the candy, but i pick the ones with high glucose syrup content and not that much sugar, because glucose syrup is the exact same as dextrose and i dont want too much fructose from plain sugar) and 80g protein from milk and whey. so about 1000kcals instantly pre and throughout the workout.
total calories and protein intake are the exact same from when im not on slin, maybe 30-40g more protein because of the shakes and maybe more carbs instead of fat in total. but calories are the same.
maybe you get fat off slin when you shoot it 4x a day and with high fat meals, but if you watch your diet and use it pre (or maybe post, but never tried it) workout its not gonna make you fat AT ALL
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yeah i actually havent changed anything about my diet, just substituted my pre workout meal for a big whey shake and a few sweets (30mins after injecting slin), as i downed the shake i go to the gym (its just 5mins away from my place) and then i actually snack on candy at the locker room and throughout the first 20mins of my workout :D
the looks people give me are funny as fuck. about 30-40 mins later (still intra workout) ill have another whey shake with dextrose.
so basically ill have 15iu slin and then after about 30mins and throughout my workout ill have 150g carbs from nonfat milk, dextrose and glucose syrup/sugar (from the candy, but i pick the ones with high glucose syrup content and not that much sugar, because glucose syrup is the exact same as dextrose and i dont want too much fructose from plain sugar) and 80g protein from milk and whey. so about 1000kcals instantly pre and throughout the workout.
total calories and protein intake are the exact same from when im not on slin, maybe 30-40g more protein because of the shakes and maybe more carbs instead of fat in total. but calories are the same.
maybe you get fat off slin when you shoot it 4x a day and with high fat meals, but if you watch your diet and use it pre (or maybe post, but never tried it) workout its not gonna make you fat AT ALL
I think I eat a little cleaner then that. I was shooting 30 units (1o units each injection) on training days just chest,back and leg day(3 times a week,not daily) insulin days just on basic macros except my post workout dinner is a tad higher in carbs. I do pack food with me to the gym just incase I start feeling weird but never happened to me. I'm using was using Humilin-R so I'm not sure if you were using Humalog that's a alot faster acting. some of the training days I would drink some intra/pump products pus I got some samples of blackstone labs angel dust so I was sipping on that pre-workout. I was shooting it 3 seperate times a day.
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ive been running 15iu pre workout for 2 weeks now and i havent put on a single gram of bodyfat. such bullshit talk insulin makes u fat blahblah.
1g tren helps, but to put on bodyfat on that you have to be fucking retarded lol
the fullness is INSANE btw.
you can go higher and will just get better. Bunch of idiotic clowns who have no f'in clue who say it makes you fat....
i add some humalin R to the pre workout humalog to keep the party going into the post workout period. Works much better!
I even add 2 pieces of bacon to that post workout meal so don't worrry about fat while the slin is active as all the interweb guwu's love to parrot...
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I think I eat a little cleaner then that. I was shooting 30 units (1o units each injection) on training days just chest,back and leg day(3 times a week,not daily) insulin days just on basic macros except my post workout dinner is a tad higher in carbs. I do pack food with me to the gym just incase I start feeling weird but never happened to me. I'm using was using Humilin-R so I'm not sure if you were using Humalog that's a alot faster acting. some of the training days I would drink some intra/pump products pus I got some samples of blackstone labs angel dust so I was sipping on that pre-workout. I was shooting it 3 seperate times a day.
yeah i cant manage to get solid meals in within the active window of humalog/novolog... or i'd have to workout on full stomach, cant do that shit. 1 set of squats and ill feel like shit so i have to rely on dextrose
my other meals are all clean though so im not too worried. never eat fast food etc
you can go higher and will just get better. Bunch of idiotic clowns who have no f'in clue who say it makes you fat....
i add some humalin R to the pre workout humalog to keep the party going into the post workout period. Works much better!
I even add 2 pieces of bacon to that post workout meal so don't worrry about fat while the slin is active as all the interweb guwu's love to parrot...
good to know. what do you think is the best dosage in terms of money/results?
i mean insulin is cheap as fuck but if i had to go through 3 pens a months it would get costly too^^
i could easily add another 50-100g carbs intra workout so theoretically i could go much higher.
i might try and see if i get anymore benefits later on. but right now 15iu is awesome
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work your way up Jizmo. Can't lay out protocols and it's so individual but like your 150 grams intra carbs. From there, you can increase the slin as tolerance will increase and keep the carbs as is.
why do you buy pens? Way more expensive! the vials are way cheaper.
diabetesexpress.ca will ship to the states, cold pack even.
vial of slin is 35 humalog
25 humalin R
As far as max dosage, over 40 units in a day can be a lot to cover with food. that amount has me needing a good 100grams of carbs per meal.
Some prefer 4 shots of humalog with 10 units each shot, I prefer 2 shots of 20 units of humalin R
Or one shot of humalin r am.
When that wears off (6ish hours later..) and another shot, could do humalog as I want it out faster for obvious reasons as it can be getting late in the day. If sure of being at home and having food, a humalin r shot could be done in place.
To get back insulin sensitivity, na r ala works very good. SAN make it, worth the money. Stuff keeps me looking full and pumped when off slin and really gives a nice look, but no size gain like slin, but still has a noticeable effect.
I do it 2 weeks on 2 off. Used at least 5-6 times a week. I get tired of the shots and use it when training at peak levels. Or to gain back size lost from doing dumb shit, lol...
Pretty sure you will figure this out as well... Ya kinda seem like a smart dude, lol...
Something I used to do is shoot 20 units humalog then eat a shit load of cereal, huge protein shake then go to bed. You will wake up looking nice and full...
And no, you won't go hypo in your sleep. Talking like 200 carbs plus here, 50 protein, mega cals...
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without a doubt it works without gh but depending on your size you need to get 30+ to see dramatic gains I would still suggest using prami or ghrp2 or some sort of gh booster ( just to insure at least good gh levels)with it heres a chat on a prami study once you near 40ius its like magic. I prefere to wake up drink a large soda juice what ever get glucose high from the start then use humlin r twice and 20ius with 6hrs between sometime if up late snake another small shot in but build up to it keep carbs with you like gummi worms or pop waxy mazy or oatmeal would work to I feel better with more carb dense food such as pop I usually try to add creatine bcaa but not crucial imo fat intake does not matter as much as they say either just eat like you normal would but have a higher carb diet
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without a doubt it works without gh but depending on your size you need to get 30+ to see dramatic gains I would still suggest using prami or ghrp2 or some sort of gh booster ( just to insure at least good gh levels)with it heres a chat on a prami study once you near 40ius its like magic. I prefere to wake up drink a large soda juice what ever get glucose high from the start then use humlin r twice and 20ius with 6hrs between sometime if up late snake another small shot in but build up to it keep carbs with you like gummi worms or pop waxy mazy or oatmeal would work to I feel better with more carb dense food such as pop I usually try to add creatine bcaa but not crucial imo fat intake does not matter as much as they say either just eat like you normal would but have a higher carb diet
prami is pretty useless regarding GH. it just increases NIGHTLY GH output. this is rather useless for insulin users, since we use insulin during the day and not at night, so a high nighttime GH doesnt protect against "insulin fat gain" (which seems to be bullshit anyway) at all.
ive used various peptides (cjc dac/non dac, ghrp2, ipam) and while cjc dac was good at higher dosages its not worth the money.
just use more tren. simple as that. ofc not healthy but much more effective.
work your way up Jizmo. Can't lay out protocols and it's so individual but like your 150 grams intra carbs. From there, you can increase the slin as tolerance will increase and keep the carbs as is.
why do you buy pens? Way more expensive! the vials are way cheaper.
i actually dont use pens, i draw from penfills cartridges with insulin syringes...
can you even get humalog/novolog in vials? never seen it actually... im in the EU btw so have to rely on UGL stuff.
but i can get 5x300iu penfills for 50$ for so thats 10$ per 300iu. thats cheap as f**k :)
i never tried humalin but i might do so. right now im just trying to have to slin active during my workout.
ive always been a big eater post workout so it might make sense to cover the PWO phase with slin too.
however since ive been having the pre and intra shake im so fking full after my workouts that i dont even have to desire to eat a huge meal afterwards so ill just have a standard ~800 kcal meal.
otherwise i wouldnt be able to leave the house afterwards because i would be so damn stuffed lol.
regarding insulin sensitivity... my morning blood sugar actually hasnt moved AT ALL since i started using insulin. its still always 70-80.
i dont think a rapid insulin analogue will lower insulin sensitivity AT ALL when used pre workout and only once a day.
CHRONIC hyperinsulinemia (high insulin levels OVER A LONG TIME) are what causes insulin resistance/insensitivity...
theres actually not a single study showing that high dosages of rapid insulin can cause insulin resistance. extremely high dosages might induce beta cell apoptosis (eventually leading to diabetes after months/years), but theres no real proof of that, plus it would probably take humongous dosages at once.
ill probably run insulin during all my bulk phases from now on.
when im cutting i run metformin or berberine anyway plus have some nutritional tweaks to improve insulin sensitivity (use lots of cinnamon, cumin, lately been looking into ginger powder too, suppversity just brought an interesting study on that: http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2015/01/study-underlines-real-world-benefits-of.html).
im also pretty excited to see what this does to my fasting blood sugar now that i measure regularly. its the only real indicator of insulin sensitivity imo.
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i personally and have heard this from people in the know prefere junk carbs that are smaller seems to cut the bloat down. what we can take away from this everyone that has seen good gain 40iu seems to be the starting point
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i personally and have heard this from people in the know prefere junk carbs that are smaller seems to cut the bloat down. what we can take away from this everyone that has seen good gain 40iu seems to be the starting point
40iu is insane. The whole point of insulin is to get away with the least amount to be effective and won't hinder insulin sensitivity. It's not like GH where more is better. Less is seriously more on insulin. Try shooting 40iu for a few days in a row and watch you wonder why it stopped working after that.
Also, if you have the cash, get Intra-MD for intra workout. Junk carbs won't produce the same results.
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40iu is insane. The whole point of insulin is to get away with the least amount to be effective and won't hinder insulin sensitivity. It's not like GH where more is better. Less is seriously more on insulin. Try shooting 40iu for a few days in a row and watch you wonder why it stopped working after that.
Also, if you have the cash, get Intra-MD for intra workout. Junk carbs won't produce the same results.
I never went over 30IU. BTW what's the best generic HGH right now? I couldn't find any HGH worth buying. I can find greys and rips but not sure those are 100% real 191-AA HGH.
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40iu is insane. The whole point of insulin is to get away with the least amount to be effective and won't hinder insulin sensitivity. It's not like GH where more is better. Less is seriously more on insulin. Try shooting 40iu for a few days in a row and watch you wonder why it stopped working after that.
Also, if you have the cash, get Intra-MD for intra workout. Junk carbs won't produce the same results.
gotta disagree here, 40 units is not insane at all. YOu work your way up, ya don't start there!
anything under 15 units is not really worth it.
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40iu is insane. The whole point of insulin is to get away with the least amount to be effective and won't hinder insulin sensitivity. It's not like GH where more is better. Less is seriously more on insulin. Try shooting 40iu for a few days in a row and watch you wonder why it stopped working after that.
Also, if you have the cash, get Intra-MD for intra workout. Junk carbs won't produce the same results.
AMD i respect you man but this is COMPLETELY wrong on so many levels.
read my previous post - rapid insulin in itself does NOT cause insulin insensitivity. there is simply ZERO scientific evidence that shows short-term-hyperinsulinemia to cause insulin insensitivity. CHRONIC hyperinsulinemia - yes. short term - no !
as i said, extremely high dosages can cause beta cells in your pancreas to die eventually leading to diabetes, but NOT insulin insensitivity. but id assume that these dosages would be well above 40iu.
its actually the GH where more is NOT better, because in the LONG TERM GH CAUSES INSULIN RESISTANCE. NOT insulin.
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I got myself some of the Humulin 70/30 insulin online. 1000ui of it and it was very cheap!
I looked up the peak times of it I will be doing the following protocol.
Training 4 days a week, training days only.
Fats + protein in the AM
Protein only lunch like chicken breast + veg
Carb meal like rice at 2-3pm on my last break at work
20ui shot at 4pm
Shake at 4:45pm (protein, dextrose, creatine)
Leave work at 5pm, drive to gym, stretch and roll out my muscles
Start training at 5:30
Drink another shake at 6pm
Finish training by 7-7:30
Get home by 7:45, cook and eat protein + carb dinner like chicken with rice
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20 units for first shot?
Ur plans will make u hypo. Dont even know ur Marcos, but ur timing is off.
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20 units for first shot?
Ur plans will make u hypo. Dont even know ur Marcos, but ur timing is off.
What's wrong with the timing?
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What's wrong with the timing?
you have not done much reading it seems...
shoot it, then find out!
you will want carbs in you when that stuff is peaking and it peaks sooner than 40 min.
Add your marcro numbers, you left out very important stuff here...
Also, if you go 0 carb in the day, then take carbs, do slin shot, your BS levels will go down much faster than if you had taken in carbs all day. 20 units is crazy here, get your feet wet before taking the plunge.
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yeah i cant manage to get solid meals in within the active window of humalog/novolog... or i'd have to workout on full stomach, cant do that shit. 1 set of squats and ill feel like shit so i have to rely on dextrose
my other meals are all clean though so im not too worried. never eat fast food etc
good to know. what do you think is the best dosage in terms of money/results?
i mean insulin is cheap as fuck but if i had to go through 3 pens a months it would get costly too^^
i could easily add another 50-100g carbs intra workout so theoretically i could go much higher.
i might try and see if i get anymore benefits later on. but right now 15iu is awesome
the 10ml vial is much cheaper than the pens
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I never went over 30IU. BTW what's the best generic HGH right now? I couldn't find any HGH worth buying. I can find greys and rips but not sure those are 100% real 191-AA HGH.
It looks like grey tops and mean greens are the top brands these days. I think I'm going to give the greys a whirl. Rips aren't available anymore to my knowledge so if you have a source for them, I would be questioning the source. Either that or they still have inventory left from a long time ago that they haven't sold. Rips from 2-3 years ago was the best non pharm graded HGH ever. I have never used any other brand besides rips but I am also going by what a lot of people have said and lab testing. The greys have tested exceptionally well since they came out so they are essentially rips 2.0
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AMD i respect you man but this is COMPLETELY wrong on so many levels.
read my previous post - rapid insulin in itself does NOT cause insulin insensitivity. there is simply ZERO scientific evidence that shows short-term-hyperinsulinemia to cause insulin insensitivity. CHRONIC hyperinsulinemia - yes. short term - no !
as i said, extremely high dosages can cause beta cells in your pancreas to die eventually leading to diabetes, but NOT insulin insensitivity. but id assume that these dosages would be well above 40iu.
its actually the GH where more is NOT better, because in the LONG TERM GH CAUSES INSULIN RESISTANCE. NOT insulin.
I appreciate that I have your respect and I certainly don't think 40iu will lead to diabetes short term or anything lol but I just don't think it's necessary for optimal results. That's all I'm really saying. I don't have any problem with your science, just that you don't need a ton of insulin for it to be as effective as you need it to be. I am not one of those people who thinks all pros are lying and sneak in 100iu of slin every day year round when no one is looking.
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the 10ml vial is much cheaper than the pens
buying in bulk is always cheaper, but i havent found a source where i can get a 10ml humalog vial for 100$ so ill stick with the penfills
and im not stealing the shit from my grandma lol
I appreciate that I have your respect and I certainly don't think 40iu will lead to diabetes short term or anything lol but I just don't think it's necessary for optimal results. That's all I'm really saying. I don't have any problem with your science, just that you don't need a ton of insulin for it to be as effective as you need it to be. I am not one of those people who thinks all pros are lying and sneak in 100iu of slin every day year round when no one is looking.
yeah i definitely agree on that
if you use slin its probably best to use it pre workout to get the most bang for the buck
then post workout, then in the morning
but i dont really see the need for pwo or morning shots. id assume the more often u use it the higher the chances of spilling over into fat tissue
this is probably pretty impossible with pre workout only use.
it would just be interesting to know if a dosage like 30iu is better split up over the day or used all pre workout
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well a morning shot and one 6hrs a few times a week it will be in your system prewoekout anyways
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I appreciate that I have your respect and I certainly don't think 40iu will lead to diabetes short term or anything lol but I just don't think it's necessary for optimal results. That's all I'm really saying. I don't have any problem with your science, just that you don't need a ton of insulin for it to be as effective as you need it to be. I am not one of those people who thinks all pros are lying and sneak in 100iu of slin every day year round when no one is looking.
Look harder, lol! As I can easily see that happening, heard it goes waaaaayyyyy higher than that from top pro's...
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buying in bulk is always cheaper, but i havent found a source where i can get a 10ml humalog vial for 100$ so ill stick with the penfills
and im not stealing the shit from my grandma lol
yeah i definitely agree on that
if you use slin its probably best to use it pre workout to get the most bang for the buck
then post workout, then in the morning
but i dont really see the need for pwo or morning shots. id assume the more often u use it the higher the chances of spilling over into fat tissue
this is probably pretty impossible with pre workout only use.
it would just be interesting to know if a dosage like 30iu is better split up over the day or used all pre workout
Damn in quebec they sell it with no script for 33$ the 10ml vial
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Damn in quebec they sell it with no script for 33$ the 10ml vial
dunno wtf i was thinking with the 100$
i actually just looked it up and i pay about 60$ for 1500iu (5x300iu cartridges)
so thats not even much more than what you guys pay
have to get it from UGL sources though, it needs prescription here.
i might walk into a pharmacy and ask if they can give me a new cartridge when i show them the old one but idk if thats gonna work. no problems with getting the ugl-source stuff anyway
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dunno wtf i was thinking with the 100$
i actually just looked it up and i pay about 60$ for 1500iu (5x300iu cartridges)
so thats not even much more than what you guys pay
have to get it from UGL sources though, it needs prescription here.
i might walk into a pharmacy and ask if they can give me a new cartridge when i show them the old one but idk if thats gonna work. no problems with getting the ugl-source stuff anyway
Well when a muscular guy ask them for anything these fuckers are always suspicious ;D
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you have not done much reading it seems...
shoot it, then find out!
you will want carbs in you when that stuff is peaking and it peaks sooner than 40 min.
Add your marcro numbers, you left out very important stuff here...
Also, if you go 0 carb in the day, then take carbs, do slin shot, your BS levels will go down much faster than if you had taken in carbs all day. 20 units is crazy here, get your feet wet before taking the plunge.
I'll have carbs in me. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. You also just guessed my previous history entirely
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Well when a muscular guy ask them for anything these fuckers are always suspicious ;D
ill just go there when im cutting and looking flat, shave beforehand and say my granny just ate a whole apple pie and needs some of dat dere insulin :D ;D
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From: Insulin Regulation of Human Hepatic Growth Hormone Receptors: Divergent Effects on Biosynthesis and Surface Translocation, Kin-Chuen Leung, Nathan Doyle, Mercedes Ballesteros, Michael J. Waters, And Ken K. Y. Ho, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 2000 Vol. 85 No. 12 4712-4720
In the study they recognized the importance of insulin and how it interacts with growth hormone, specifically highlighting that "insulin is essential for GH stimulation of IGF-I production and growth."
They then focused on the results of their study. They found that:
- Insulin up-regulated total and intracellular GH-receptors in a concentration-dependent manner.
- The abundance of GHR messenger ribonucleic acid and protein, ... respectively, markedly increased with insulin treatment.
[So the more insulin that was used the more biosynthesis or creation of GH-receptors that occurred. Now these receptors while abundant were not necessarily moved to the surface of the cell nor where they activated. Just a pool of GHRs was created.]
CAVEAT: Parts of the GH-Receptor can move to the nucleus and mediate gene expression. See the wonderful post that follows on "Growth Hormone Receptor structure, post-biogenesis behavior and degradation"
- It increased surface GHRs in a biphasic manner, with a peak response at 10 nmol/L, and modulated GH-induced Janus kinase-2 phosphorylation in parallel with expression of surface GHRs.
[So insulin increases the number of GH-receptors that make it to the cell surface AND increase the "intensity" of activation...but up to a point. After that point is reached insulin begins to hinder both the number of GH-receptors and "intensity" of activation"]
To quote from the study on this point:
Insulin induced a concentration-dependent increase in GHR biosynthesis, but simultaneously inhibited surface translocation. However, the net effect of reducing receptor surface availability only occurred at concentrations greater than 10 nmol/L, a concentration causing 70% inhibition of surface translocation. These data suggest that up-regulation of surface GHRs can occur with as little as 30% of intracellular receptors available for translocation to the cell surface. At concentrations above 10 nmol/L, the inhibitory effect of insulin on surface translocation overrides the compensatory effect of a 4- to 5-fold increase in receptor biosynthesis.
[So this means that insulin increases GH-receptors by 400-500% but that as insulin rises it reduces the number of those GH-receptors that make it to the surface and are active. There is a point at which insulin begins to reduce the benefit of this GH-receptor creation. That point is 10 nmol/L of insulin. Just prior to that point insulin has inhibited substantially the translocation of GH-Receptors but the increased quantity made up for it and created an overall net benefit.]
So the problem becomes how to translate that pivot point (10 nmol/L) into a number we can use.
From: Correspondence Letter Regarding Article by von Lewinski et al, "Insulin Causes [Ca2+]i-Dependent and [Ca2+]i-Independent Positive Inotropic Effects in Failing Human Myocardium", Chih-Hsueng Hsu, MD; Cheng-I Lin, PhD; Jeng Wei, MD, Circulation. 2005;112:e367
...we find that "3 IU/L, equivalent to 20 nmol/L" ...so 10 nmol/L is equivalent to 1.5 IU/L
From Wiki Answers http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_l...an_beings_have
...we find that humans have 5-6 litres of blood in general.
So 5 x 1.5 = 7.5IU
So 6 x 1.5 = 9IU
Therefore the point at which the amount of insulin in plasma becomes a negative rather then a positive is approximately 7.5 to 9 IUs.
So to arrive at a net benefit an insulin amount below that threshold point such as 5-6 ius is desirabl
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very interesting study! thanks for sharing
this ONLY translates to GH output though
not the effectiveness of insulin in general (where i think the actual benefits only start at 10+ iu)
it would also be different when exogenous GH is present i guess
but theoretically you could use insulin at lower dosages to increase GH output... i think i read that when you go hypo GH is also secreted.
sooo theoretically a low dose of insulin that makes your blood sugar drop low (and only at that point you eat) could actually cause a decent GH increase.
id also like to know if this translates 1:1 to us
for some reason my hands go numb much more often at night since i started using insulin
that has always been an indicator for higher GH levels for me since it only ever happens when im on GH peps
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very interesting study! thanks for sharing
this ONLY translates to GH output though
not the effectiveness of insulin in general (where i think the actual benefits only start at 10+ iu)
it would also be different when exogenous GH is present i guess
but theoretically you could use insulin at lower dosages to increase GH output... i think i read that when you go hypo GH is also secreted.
sooo theoretically a low dose of insulin that makes your blood sugar drop low (and only at that point you eat) could actually cause a decent GH increase.
id also like to know if this translates 1:1 to us
for some reason my hands go numb much more often at night since i started using insulin
that has always been an indicator for higher GH levels for me since it only ever happens when im on GH peps
Yeah you should be able to time it or use blended slin so that you get the best of both worlds.
Pre-workout I'd use fast acting humalog and then a slow acting slin post workout that worked throughout the night.
I bought a 70/30 blend and I going by the peak graphs, 20ui an hour before training seems just about ideal. If you need more slin then you could stack it with whatever dose of humalog as well pre-workout
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if there is a gh benefit the carbs eaten to not die will probably ruin what we are all hoping that could mean...
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Damn in quebec they sell it with no script for 33$ the 10ml vial
even better, go to diabetesexpress.com and order it, have it delievered, no hassle at all.
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I'll have carbs in me. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. You also just guessed my previous history entirely
Don't wanna argue but here is what you wrote and I answered based on that. I'm supposed to know your entire history now, lol? C'mon man, can't expect me to know that or blame me for replying as I did as you don't fill me in on much.
I got myself some of the Humulin 70/30 insulin online. 1000ui of it and it was very cheap!
I looked up the peak times of it I will be doing the following protocol.
Training 4 days a week, training days only.
Fats + protein in the AM
Protein only lunch like chicken breast + veg
Carb meal like rice at 2-3pm on my last break at work
20ui shot at 4pm
Shake at 4:45pm (protein, dextrose, creatine)
Leave work at 5pm, drive to gym, stretch and roll out my muscles
Start training at 5:30
Drink another shake at 6pm
Finish training by 7-7:30
Get home by 7:45, cook and eat protein + carb dinner like chicken with rice
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if there is a gh benefit the carbs eaten to not die will probably ruin what we are all hoping that could mean...
No it won't, the pituitary will still dump gh post workout.
If you take gh as well, even better. Even ghrp2 would work ok
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So my insulin arrived today.
I took 20ui and drove to the gym. My diet had been protein only all day. I ate 3% lean beef that was cooked without oil
I had with me 2L of water with 45g of sugar in it, 6g leucine, 4g alanine, 3g glycine and 10g glutamine.
Got to the gym about 10 minutes post shot and warmed up on the recumbent bike. Did 20 minutes of cardio keeping the HR around 150. Got a crazy pump! I delayed drinking as long as possible to gauge response. I trained legs with fairly high volume but really just going for the biggest pump. I got to about an hour post shot before I felt like I wanted to drink some of my shake or whatever you'd call that.
I ended up drinking around about half of it then went home and ate some white fish with maybe 200-250g of pumpkin and an onion that I again fried without oil. Did not feel hypo at any point. I think this 70/30 mixture is ideal pre-workout and very safe. The pump and vascularity was crazy! Not as good as the novorapid though! But still very good and only one pre-workout shot needed.
I think next time I'll do this I'll take the shot an hour to 45 minutes before I leave work and then drink half of my "shake" on the way to the gym and then the rest of it while I train.