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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: tonymctones on December 27, 2014, 11:48:16 AM
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So I just read an article about a college football player in Texas who was killed while performing a home invasion. The interviewed one of his coaches and he referred to the guy as a "good kid"
Seriously???
Sorry he wasnt a good kid, the kid shot in St. Louis for pulling a gun wasnt a good kid, Mike Brown wasnt a good kid, Trayvon Martin wasnt a good kid.
When will the general public begin to call out the parents of these idiots?
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People are pussies...they don't want to tell Mike Brown's step dad that his son was a violent criminal who died a predictably violent death because speaking that way isn't "nice". Unfortunately...we live in a feminized culture that values being "nice" over being truthful, so I don't think things will change any time soon
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sorry a link to the referenced story.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12079564/terrence-neal-tusan-howard-bison-killed-robbery-called-good-kid
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It's funny how certain groups of people put heavy value on "keeping it real", but when you attempt to keep it real with them, they flip out.
Let me keep it real for a minute. Thieves and violent thugs usually meet a violent demise, often at the hands of cops. They are not, "gentle giants", they are not "good kids". They are the scum of society.
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Because intelligent people ignore these stories by reflex. In fact, they barely read the news any more as it's a complete insult to intelligence. Morons lap it up and believe the media.
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What's the concern? I would much rather see people focus on the positive.
Many of them are still processing the info while shocked, anyway. I would be very concerned if they said otherwise of the person.
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What's the concern? I would much rather see people focus on the positive.
Many of them are still processing the info while shocked, anyway. I would be very concerned if they said otherwise of the person.
focusing on the positive after some time has passed is actually a very common thing.
The concern is that the idea of them being a "good kid" isnt reality. If the people that had influence over these kids realized that they werent good kids earlier, they may have been able to change their behavior prior to the stupidity that lead to their death while being what their parents call a "good kid"
why would you prefer a person make shit up about a person rather than tell the truth?
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So I just read an article about a college football player in Texas who was killed while performing a home invasion. The interviewed one of his coaches and he referred to the guy as a "good kid"
Seriously???
First of all, dunderhead, you couldn't have picked a worse story to illustrate your "point". The coach who calls
him a good kid does so because he says he was not familiar with him having any drug or crime connections and the kid got good grades. In that very article he goes on to say that he can't understand why the young man he knew would throw his life away like that.
Secondly, JackTCross is right! What the fuck are people supposed to push back against?! People are generally memorialized positively by their loved ones when they die. What should he have said? "The kid was a shitbag who deserved to die."
Finally, push back? ::) How do you think you know what you think you know about Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin? Is there some more extreme form of "push back" that you think is more suitable? Should the general public arrive at that coach's house to deliver an old-fashioned Iraqi shoe bashing?
Newsflash: People have emotional blinders on when loved ones die. This million year old trend shows no signs of letting up. What the fuck are you even talking about!?
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First of all, dunderhead, you couldn't have picked a worse story to illustrate your "point". The coach who calls
him a good kid does so because he says he was not familiar with him having any drug or crime connections and the kid got good grades. In that very article he goes on to say that he can't understand why the young man he knew would throw his life away like that.
Secondly, JackTCross is right! What the fuck are people supposed to push back against?! People are generally memorialized positively by their loved ones when they die. What should he have said? "The kid was a shitbag who deserved to die."
Finally, push back? ::) How do you think you know what you think you know about Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin? Is there some more extreme form of "push back" that you think is more suitable? Should the general public arrive at that coach's house to deliver an old-fashioned Iraqi shoe bashing?
Newsflash: People have emotional blinders on when loved ones die. This million year old trend shows no signs of letting up. What the fuck are you even talking about!?
first of all the coach was described as a family friend so yea he knew this kid outside of being a coach.
second I agreed that memorializing people in a postive manner is a very common practice that doesnt change the FACT these kids were not "good kids". You dont have to say youre happy he is dead but recognizing that he wasnt leading a "good life" and saying that their idiotic decisions are what led to their death is to much to ask apparently?
Finally I am a member of a community of people who the Mike Browns/Trayvon Martins of the world put at risk every day. You may be happy to stand by while they go through their lives being good kids robbing and stealing but I for one am not. I believe you meant to ask "How do you think you know what you think you know about Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin is correct?" well the facts tell us so albert.
Newsflash: Parents should be parents and teach their kids right from wrong. Its obvious these kids had weak moral compuses. Do you think their parents recognized that these kids were shit heads before they died and all of a sudden felt they were "good kids" after they died?
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first of all the coach was described as a family friend so yea he knew this kid outside of being a coach.
And?
second I agreed that memorializing people in a postive manner is a very common practice that doesnt change the FACT these kids were not "good kids". You dont have to say youre happy he is dead but recognizing that he wasnt leading a "good life" and saying that their idiotic decisions are what led to their death is to much to ask apparently?
That's exactly what the guy did do.
Finally I am a member of a community of people who the Mike Browns/Trayvon Martins of the world put at risk every day. You may be happy to stand by while they go through their lives being good kids robbing and stealing but I for one am not. I believe you meant to ask "How do you think you know what you think you know about Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin is correct?" well the facts tell us so albert.
No, I meant what I posted. You know what you think you know because it has been reported in the media and has been discussed. What other type of "pushback" do you think there should be?
Newsflash: Parents should be parents and teach their kids right from wrong. Its obvious these kids had weak moral compuses. Do you think their parents recognized that these kids were shit heads before they died and all of a sudden felt they were "good kids" after they died?
::)
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And?
and? you dumb fuck he was a family friend. The video report didnt say anything about him not knowing of any drug related/crime issues and even if thats what he said it OBVIOUSLY isnt true.
That's exactly what the guy did do.
I understand thats what the guy did, and he is wrong. This shit head wasnt a "good kid" and people should point that out to him and others like him.
No, I meant what I posted. You know what you think you know because it has been reported in the media and has been discussed. What other type of "pushback" do you think there should be?
I know what I know b/c its fact. This shit head died in a home invasion if you want to speculate you can say it was probably drug related. The push back should be society reaming this morons a new ass hole and shoving it in their face that the piece of shit wasnt a "good kid". Maybe then the parents of other shit heads will wake up and start parenting their shit head kids.
what benefit do you see by lying?
::)
lets see al what do you disagree with? that parents are responsible for teaching their kids right from wrong? or that these kids had weak moral compuses?
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and? you dumb fuck he was a family friend. The video report didnt say anything about him not knowing of any drug related/crime issues and even if thats what he said it OBVIOUSLY isnt true.
Edit - I do see where he said that and as I stated it obviously isnt true, does a home invasion sound like something a good kid would be involved in?
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and? you dumb fuck he was a family friend. The video report didnt say anything about him not knowing of any drug related/crime issues and even if thats what he said it OBVIOUSLY isnt true.
I understand thats what the guy did, and he is wrong. This shit head wasnt a "good kid" and people should point that out to him and others like him.
I know what I know b/c its fact. This shit head died in a home invasion if you want to speculate you can say it was probably drug related. The push back should be society reaming this morons a new ass hole and shoving it in their face that the piece of shit wasnt a "good kid". Maybe then the parents of other shit heads will wake up and start parenting their shit head kids.
what benefit do you see by lying?
lets see al what do you disagree with? that parents are responsible for teaching their kids right from wrong? or that these kids had weak moral compuses?
You are a moron.
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Edit - I do see where he said that and as I stated it obviously isnt true, does a home invasion sound like something a good kid would be involved in?
You are a moron pt II.
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LMFAO listen to the mother of the latest shit head to be shot for pointing a gun at a cop.
Even she hesitates when saying that "he was a good man" at the .23 mark
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focusing on the positive after some time has passed is actually a very common thing.
The concern is that the idea of them being a "good kid" isnt reality. If the people that had influence over these kids realized that they werent good kids earlier, they may have been able to change their behavior prior to the stupidity that lead to their death while being what their parents call a "good kid"
why would you prefer a person make shit up about a person rather than tell the truth?
If the person is referring to his/her experiences with someone: that probably isn't making shit up, is it?
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You are a moron.
youre right albert they are all just good kids
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If the person is referring to his/her experiences with someone: that probably isn't making shit up, is it?
it is at the very least ignoring obvious signs to the contrary, isnt it?
at worst an outright lie...
again why would you prefer that a person lie about a person rather than tell the truth?
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it is at the very least ignoring obvious signs to the contrary, isnt it?
How do I know the person was ignoring obvious signs? I have no way of knowing what their relationship was like.
at worst an outright lie...
again why would you prefer that a person lie about a person rather than tell the truth?
If I don't know what their relationship was like, I couldn't possibly say whether the person is lying.
Neither can you.
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youre right albert they are all just good kids
You are a moron because you post an article critical of behavior that isn't even present in the article. An example of exactly the opposite is actually shown.
You are an idiot because you made a thread wondering why people don't trash their teenaged loved ones shortly after they've been killed.
You are retarded because this thread doesn't even have a point. When I pointed out that the "example" you posted is exactly the opposite of what you are complaining about, the guy is obviously lying, blah blah blah. ::)
I mean, you are just ridiculous. You post the most non-sensical shit...
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How do I know the person was ignoring obvious signs? I have no way of knowing what their relationship was like.
If I don't know what their relationship was like, I couldn't possibly say whether the person is lying.
Neither can you.
you dont think their final act which led to their death is being ignored jack?
you think that the coach took into account that this kid just commited a home invasion when he said "he was a good kid"?
seriously you think the mother of the kid who pulled a gun on the cop and got shot took that into account when she said he was a "good kid"?
you think mike browns parents took into account the fact he had just robbed a store and fought with a police officer into account when they said he was a "good kid"?
how about trayvon martins parents, did they take into account the drugs, guns and theft when they said he was a "good kid"?
its obvious to anyone who looks at these people that they werent "good kids".
why ignore facts a best and outright lie at worst?
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you dont think their final act which led to their death is being ignored jack?
you think that the coach took into account that this kid just commited a home invasion when he said "he was a good kid"?
seriously you think the mother of the kid who pulled a gun on the cop and got shot took that into account when she said he was a "good kid"?
you think mike browns parents took into account the fact he had just robbed a store and fought with a police officer into account when they said he was a "good kid"?
how about trayvon martins parents, did they take into account the drugs, guns and theft when they said he was a "good kid"?
its obvious to anyone who looks at these people that they werent "good kids".
why ignore facts a best and outright lie at worst?
I'm trying to understand what you mean. Do you want the person to join in the condemnation of the individual in question, in order to attempt to show respect for the situation?
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you dont think their final act which led to their death is being ignored jack?
you think that the coach took into account that this kid just commited a home invasion when he said "he was a good kid"?
::) From the article you posted:
"You have to wonder, what would be the purpose to throw his life away?" Nevels said,
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I'm trying to understand what you mean. Do you want the person to join in the condemnation of the individual in question, in order to attempt to show respect for the situation?
He doesn't know what he means. He's already changed points three different times and this thread isn't even a page long yet.
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I'm trying to understand what you mean. Do you want the person to join in the condemnation of the individual in question, in order to attempt to show respect for the situation?
i would settle for the general public yourself included condemning the person who lies and says they were a "good kid" especially in the case of their parents.
Every time some kid commits some stupid act and dies there is always somebody that comes out and says they were a "good kid". In the vast majority of those cases especially the slew that have been given attention recently it is obviously a big fat lie.
Antonio Martin wasnt a good kid
Mike Brown wasnt a good kid
Trayvon Martin wasnt a good kid
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::) From the article you posted:
"You have to wonder, what would be the purpose to throw his life away?" Nevels said,
would you describe someone who just commited a home invasion as a "good kid"?
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would you describe someone who just commited a home invasion as a "good kid"?
The very clear point the coach made was that the home invasion was at odds with the young man he knew. He neither glossed over it or tried to excuse. The headline of the article YOU linked to is about how people can't figure out the kid's motives.
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The libtards in this thread trying their hardest to defend the criminals, as usual ::)
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i would settle for the general public yourself included condemning the person who lies and says they were a "good kid" especially in the case of their parents.
Every time some kid commits some stupid act and dies there is always somebody that comes out and says they were a "good kid". In the vast majority of those cases especially the slew that have been given attention recently it is obviously a big fat lie.
Antonio Martin wasnt a good kid
Mike Brown wasnt a good kid
Trayvon Martin wasnt a good kid
You want people to say he was a bad kid, or say nothing at all. Right?
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Are you guys seriously trying to suggest that in all of these cases, there wasnt a constant attempt by the media to depict the thugs as sweet, gentile, innocent children? While completely whitewashing and ignoring the fact that they were all grown men with criminal records who in almost every case died while in the very act of commiting crimes and fighting cops??
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Are you guys seriously trying to suggest that in all of these cases, there wasnt a constant attempt by the media to depict the thugs as sweet, gentile, innocent children? While completely whitewashing and ignoring the fact that they were all grown men with criminal records who in almost every case died while in the very act of commiting crimes and fighting cops??
So you're saying the media is behind it.
I'll be damned. You think?
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They are driving certain narratives, yes. Truth and facts are irrelevent to them for the most part. And this all that 90% of the public is exposed to
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Antonio Martin wasnt a good kid
Mike Brown wasnt a good kid
Trayvon Martin wasnt a good kid
zimmerman was a liar who fudged details repeatedly - his own lawyer admitted it.
Officer Wilson turned 150 feet into "10 or 20" feet whn estimating how far he traveled to shoot someone.
Latest shooter in MO "forgot" to turn on his body camera when interrogating youths in a parking lot for a crime while on duty.
Sorry, but if these dickwads followed procedure, people would TRUST LAW ENFORCEMENT, and they would HELP them more.
one SW FL department has a terrible rep after a few of their officer broke a kid's leg for sleeping in a truck - they beat him twice, once breaking femur in 6 places, once punches in car, all on video while cop tried to take cameras - They've been turning around with community outreach. Buying presents, holding town halls, meeting community for breakfast, etc. That's great.
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They are driving certain narratives, yes. Truth and facts are irrelevent to them for the most part. And this all that 90% of the public is exposed to
I get very pissed at cops that don't worry about "truth and facts" either.
Officer Wilson claimed he was attacked, truth. He shot in fear for his life, truth. His radio "malfunctioned" after working seconds earlier, eh, tough to believe that's why he didn't call in the shooting. Then "i got out of car and traveled 10 to 20 feet and fired upon Brown for fear of my life" - well, that was 150 feet, and brown was 172 feet away from his car.
See, that makes it way different than part of an initial life-threatening attack. That's an attack, a foot chase spanning over half a football field, then a decision to shoot a bleeding unarmed man at 22 feet away. I'm okay if the cop needs to shoot an unarmed bleeding man at 22 feet, but the cop should JUST SAY THAT. Don't say you limped 10-20 feet out of car and fired cause you were scared.
Rather, tell the court that you ran 150 feet with your gun in hand, and you failed to call in the shooting. Then you saw the man, exchanged words, and decided at 22 feet that lethal force was your only option, and you did it. OWN THAT SHIT. Don't turn into someone that can't tell ten feet from half a football field - to me, that discredits a lot of his story. And the radio worked fine when he arrived at that stop, but it suddenly didn't work, and he didn't use his body radio, after firing his weapon? Blame that on "I didn't think of it" or "I didn't have time", don't bullshit that you did call it in, but your radio must have failed.
Fuck lying cops & anyone that defends a lying cop.
100% respect to honest cops - I support them and admire them as the heroes they certainly are.
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They are driving certain narratives, yes. Truth and facts are irrelevent to them for the most part. And this all that 90% of the public is exposed to
OMG Are you serious? No one would stoop that low, no matter how much influence could be had.
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I get very pissed at cops that don't worry about "truth and facts" either.
Officer Wilson claimed he was attacked, truth. He shot in fear for his life, truth. His radio "malfunctioned" after working seconds earlier, eh, tough to believe that's why he didn't call in the shooting. Then "i got out of car and traveled 10 to 20 feet and fired upon Brown for fear of my life" - well, that was 150 feet, and brown was 172 feet away from his car.
See, that makes it way different than part of an initial life-threatening attack. That's an attack, a foot chase spanning over half a football field, then a decision to shoot a bleeding unarmed man at 22 feet away. I'm okay if the cop needs to shoot an unarmed bleeding man at 22 feet, but the cop should JUST SAY THAT. Don't say you limped 10-20 feet out of car and fired cause you were scared.
Rather, tell the court that you ran 150 feet with your gun in hand, and you failed to call in the shooting. Then you saw the man, exchanged words, and decided at 22 feet that lethal force was your only option, and you did it. OWN THAT SHIT. Don't turn into someone that can't tell ten feet from half a football field - to me, that discredits a lot of his story. And the radio worked fine when he arrived at that stop, but it suddenly didn't work, and he didn't use his body radio, after firing his weapon? Blame that on "I didn't think of it" or "I didn't have time", don't bullshit that you did call it in, but your radio must have failed.
Fuck lying cops & anyone that defends a lying cop.
100% respect to honest cops - I support them and admire them as the heroes they certainly are.
link where he said he only went 20 feet
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link where he said he only went 20 feet
There are inconsistencies in Wilson's story. He estimates that Brown ran 20-30 feet away from the car and then charged another 10 feet back towards Wilson. But we know Brown died 150 feet away from the car.
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown
Blood spatter was 153+25 feet from the car door.
That's 178 feet from the vehicle.
Evidence presented to the grand jury showed that the shooting scene extended approximately 184 feet.
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you dont think their final act which led to their death is being ignored jack?
you think that the coach took into account that this kid just commited a home invasion when he said "he was a good kid"?
seriously you think the mother of the kid who pulled a gun on the cop and got shot took that into account when she said he was a "good kid"?
you think mike browns parents took into account the fact he had just robbed a store and fought with a police officer into account when they said he was a "good kid"?
how about trayvon martins parents, did they take into account the drugs, guns and theft when they said he was a "good kid"?
its obvious to anyone who looks at these people that they werent "good kids".
why ignore facts a best and outright lie at worst?
All mothers see their kids as "good kids".
Pretty simple that.
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There are inconsistencies in Wilson's story. He estimates that Brown ran 20-30 feet away from the car and then charged another 10 feet back towards Wilson. But we know Brown died 150 feet away from the car.
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown
Blood spatter was 153+25 feet from the car door.
That's 178 feet from the vehicle.
Evidence presented to the grand jury showed that the shooting scene extended approximately 184 feet.
vox,is this what your using as your facts finding site lol
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vox,is this what your using as your facts finding site lol
that's why I put wiki too.
In this statement, he said 35 feet:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/11/20/everything-know-shooting-michael-brown-darren-wilson/
he said 30 feet in the ABC interview.
In his state testimony, Darrin Wilson Testified that Mike Brown ran "maybe 20-30 feet" before turning and charging him.
All of those "guesstimates are very much different from the 150+ feet that it actually happened.
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Brown was nothing but a criminal thug pos - good riddance thuggie
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that's why I put wiki too.
In this statement, he said 35 feet:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/11/20/everything-know-shooting-michael-brown-darren-wilson/
he said 30 feet in the ABC interview.
In his state testimony, Darrin Wilson Testified that Mike Brown ran "maybe 20-30 feet" before turning and charging him.
All of those "guesstimates are very much different from the 150+ feet that it actually happened.
no where in his testimony does he say how far he ran
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All mothers see their kids as "good kids".
Pretty simple that.
no, I would agree that the majority of mothers want to believe their kids are good. Good parents are able to take a step back and see reality and the reality is the recent events that have gotten attention involve kids that were not good.
Even if your assertion is true, isnt it societys responsibility to correct them? Wouldnt the community be a better place if they understood that they actually werent good kids and tried to keep the other kids from going down the same road?
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You want people to say he was a bad kid, or say nothing at all. Right?
I rather people condemn the parents for believing they raised a "good kid" when all the evidence points to the contrary. How about an acknowledgement that the actions of these people are not that of someone who would be described as a "good kid"
Nothing is to be gained by looking back at a shit heads troubled life and saying they were a "good person". On the other hand if we explain why they werent good people then maybe other potential shit heads will wise up.
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no where in his testimony does he say how far he ran
Police lied for 108 days about the distance:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/26/1347499/-Why-exactly-did-the-police-lie-for-108-days-about-how-far-Mike-Brown-ran-from-Darren-Wilson
Here you will see multiple police sources saying, 2 days after the shooting, that brown's body was 35 feet from the car, not the 153 feet, 9 inches or so that it was shown to be.
MAJOR lie from police, and one that media and protesters gripped onto in a MAJOR way - and rightfully so. You don't just fudge facts like that, particularly when you are the police and it's not exactly a rounding error.
HERE you can hear Wilson in his OWN WORDS claim it was 35 feet away - continuing the obvious lie:
And here you can see the actual distance, measured with pictures and video. There is no confusion here - police and Wilson, both LYING about the distance by a huge margin. WHY?
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he didn't say 40 feet the interviewer did but really they can't judge distance does it change what happened ,no.your always looking for some stupid motive. makes you look like an idiot
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he didn't say 40 feet the interviewer did but really they can't judge distance does it change what happened ,no.your always looking for some stupid motive. makes you look like an idiot
It's a HUGE discrepancy. And it's not a mistake, it's an intentional (both sides made the huge miscalculation) move to minimize the distance so the shooting is about the car incident. In reality, the shooting itself, half a football field away, was simply a cop making a decision to use lethal force on a charging wounded man. That's fine, but he shouldn't depend on an earlier incident at the car, and claim "self defense" for what happened after a foot chase.
I cannot wound a guy in a fight in my living room, chase him 150 feet down the street, and shoot him - then claim it was self defense related to the shit that happened in my living room. See, the chase showed I had recovered with enough ability to run 150 feet. Me NOT calling 911 after the shooting, that shows something too ( just as wilson didn't call in the shooting).
Then if I tried lying to the cops, saying it happened 35 feet away on my sidewalk, a continuation of the fight... instead of saying "yeah, the fight was over, he was running away, but I caught his ass and finished defending myself..." LOL... I'd be in jail, and rightfully so.
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From 911 CT to Brown CT
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It's a HUGE discrepancy. And it's not a mistake, it's an intentional (both sides made the huge miscalculation) move to minimize the distance so the shooting is about the car incident. In reality, the shooting itself, half a football field away, was simply a cop making a decision to use lethal force on a charging wounded man. That's fine, but he shouldn't depend on an earlier incident at the car, and claim "self defense" for what happened after a foot chase.
I cannot wound a guy in a fight in my living room, chase him 150 feet down the street, and shoot him - then claim it was self defense related to the shit that happened in my living room. See, the chase showed I had recovered with enough ability to run 150 feet. Me NOT calling 911 after the shooting, that shows something too ( just as wilson didn't call in the shooting).
Then if I tried lying to the cops, saying it happened 35 feet away on my sidewalk, a continuation of the fight... instead of saying "yeah, the fight was over, he was running away, but I caught his ass and finished defending myself..." LOL... I'd be in jail, and rightfully so.
for one think your not a cop so there is a difference,your not this dumb,or are you.not everything is a conspiracy lol
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http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/12/26/woman-smears-pork-products-on-framingham-police-dispatch-window
Not just blacks acting like fools
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Three "youths" broke into my neighbors apartment while he was out of town on business. They stomped his yorkie to death, tied up his daughter +sodomized her at gun point, stole everything of value and set the place on fire. Luckily, the fire department responded quickly.
The story has a happy ending though. His daughter (whats left of her) is on life support. Fortunately, my neighbors health insurance will cover his daughters injuries until February 2015. At that point, his employers health insurance coverage will expire because of Obamacare. Luckily, he won't have to pay alimony anymore. You see, as it turns out, when my neighbors ex wife saw the daughters condition, she killed herself.
I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but I feel as if the assailants are basically "good kids."
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Three "youths" broke into my neighbors apartment while he was out of town on business. They stomped his yorkie to death, tied up his daughter +sodomized her at gun point, stole everything of value and set the place on fire. Luckily, the fire department responded quickly.
The story has a happy ending though. His daughter (whats left of her) is on life support. Fortunately, my neighbors health insurance will cover his daughters injuries until February 2015. At that point, his employers health insurance coverage will expire because of Obamacare. Luckily, he won't have to pay alimony anymore. You see, as it turns out, when my neighbors ex wife saw the daughters condition, she killed herself.
I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but I feel as if the assailants are basically "good kids."
Oh those 'rascals'!! ::)
Libs are always quiet as a mouse when it comes to stuff like this.