Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Thong Maniac on February 02, 2015, 06:23:06 AM
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Im sooo sick of cutting cals to get to 8-10 percent bf.
I need a lifestyle change. Is Keto healthy in the long
Run? Is it possible to run it year round during "bulks" and "cuts"?
I want to be lean year round. So sick of being self conscious of my flab in winter and then struggling to maintain low BF during summer.
And by keto I dont mean chowing on cheap bacon from disgusting and unethical factories, or 80/20 conventional cheap burger patties from costco. Im talking fish, veggies, nuts, some eggs and chicken and grass fed meats
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I hate to break it to you, but either you have the genetics to stay lean or you have to eat next to nothing or if you want to carry sizes then you got to eat clean cardio and lift intense. No short cuts
No a Keto lifestyle year round would not work very well as your body does not turn fat in to energy as well as carbs. It like 60-70% as proficient with fatwas it is carbs when it come to energy.
So unless you want your brain and body running on 60% energy year round don't do it
Also some peoples muscles can take Keto othets can't. For me it eats them fast for my friend she diets Keto and dosnt loss much
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I hate to break it to you, but either you have the genetics to stay lean or you have to eat next to nothing or if you want to carry sizes then you got to eat clean cardio and lift intense. No short cuts
No a Keto lifestyle year round would not work very well as your body does not turn fat in to energy as well as carbs. It like 60-70% as proficient with fatwas it is carbs when it come to energy.
So unless you want your brain and body running on 60% energy year round don't do it
Also some peoples muscles can take Keto othets can't. For me it eats them fast for my friend she diets Keto and dosnt loss much
Ive read that brain does fine on keto but im sure there is tons of conflicting thought on that. Im just sick of eating 2600 kcals , which is nothing, and still getting flabby with cardio 5 days a week and heavy 3 days a week of full body compound lifting. I am lean on 1600-1800 cals, which female fitness models eat more
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Will tell you what I tell everyone else.
Time your carbs before, during after training, rest of the day/meals are protein+fat.
Ez on paper, just needs monk like consistency.
Got love handles? Yohimbe. Use fat burners, clen is awesome. If you live in the US, plenty of research sites to get it.
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I do keto with a refeed or two a week (usually just one though). I am bulking now using that diet and its going well. Staying relatively lean, calories are nice and high for me (about 2.5 - 3k), strength is good (as good as when I used to bulk on carbs and held more fat), feeling good overall, too. I'm naturally an endo and I feel like endos do well on a CKD for bulking and cutting (caloric difference and energy expenditure will end up giving you the desired result).
The only thing that annoys me is I get cold all the time, I'm guessing its because the body is working inefficiently as it metabolises fats and proteins for energy. And when I do my refeed I sweat uncontrollably haha.
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Will tell you what I tell everyone else.
Time your carbs before, during after training, rest of the day/meals are protein+fat.
Ez on paper, just needs monk like consistency.
Got love handles? Yohimbe. Use fat burners, clen is awesome. If you live in the US, plenty of research sites to get it.
I need a lifestyle of diet, not a life long clen binge. Clen is bad for heart so im gonna stay away. I need a long term solution
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I do keto with a refeed or two a week (usually just one though). I am bulking now using that diet and its going well. Staying relatively lean, calories are nice and high for me (about 2.5 - 3k), strength is good (as good as when I used to bulk on carbs and held more fat), feeling good overall, too. I'm naturally an endo and I feel like endos do well on a CKD for bulking and cutting (caloric difference and energy expenditure will end up giving you the desired result).
The only thing that annoys me is I get cold all the time, I'm guessing its because the body is working inefficiently as it metabolises fats and proteins for energy. And when I do my refeed I sweat uncontrollably haha.
Interesting. Are you natural?
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Will tell you what I tell everyone else.
Time your carbs before, during after training, rest of the day/meals are protein+fat.
Ez on paper, just needs monk like consistency.
Got love handles? Yohimbe. Use fat burners, clen is awesome. If you live in the US, plenty of research sites to get it.
I agree with everything here except the Clen. I do all of this, eat "paleo" for every other meal of the day besides pre and post workout. Best sustainable stay-lean diet I can think of.
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I need a lifestyle of diet, not a life long clen binge. Clen is bad for heart so im gonna stay away. I need a long term solution
Now you are just repeating what all the other dongs are saying about the clen.... It's HOW you use it that makes it dangerous.
So use ephedrine if you don't like clen.
My eating solution is a long term solution.
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Now you are just repeating what all the other dongs are saying about the clen.... It's HOW you use it that makes it dangerous.
So use ephedrine if you don't like clen.
My eating solution is a long term solution.
Ive actually tried the eating approach. Didnt get much from it. bF stayed relatively the same. Do you really need carbs pre and post? Or is it pseudo science?
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Ive actually tried the eating approach. Didnt get much from it. bF stayed relatively the same. Do you really need carbs pre and post? Or is it pseudo science?
You tell me. TRain with them, then without. MOst do better with.
You sound like you have low test syndrome (not being smart ass...) if diet, training can't get you in shape, something is off here.
Thyroid? Dunno...
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I don't see why super low carb is necessary unless you're dieting down for a show, or trying to make weight for something, and want to keep calories to an absolute minimum.
150 grams of carbs is 600 cals. Unless your forcing it, you're probably not gonna eat much more than 150 grams of protein. That brings the total to 1200 cals, leaving only fats and alcohol. How much cheese can you eat?
So, if you limit starchy carbs, don't be a drunken moron, and do some cardio, running in particular, that should be enough to maintain reasonable bodyfat levels year round, without Ketosis.
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You tell me. TRain with them, then without. MOst do better with.
You sound like you have low test syndrome (not being smart ass...) if diet, training can't get you in shape, something is off here.
Thyroid? Dunno...
Thyroid is good, on TRT. Actually cycling right now on just adex and 700mg of cyp.
Cardio, hiit and jogging. Full body lifts 3 x a week. Im not eating clean, but its mainly rice, tilapia, beef and sweet potatoz. Cheat meal a couple times a week. I seriously think its just genetics at this point, ive been thick skinned my entire life
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Interesting. Are you natural?
I just started super dmz 3.0 I had sitting around for a while, but I only started last week, so I've been doing this diet as a natty for a while, yes.
If you're naturally skinny I wouldn't suggest keto, especially if you have a bad appetite, you'll shrivel up into nothing. But if you're a naturally fat fuck like me and don't have a stop button when eating (I no longer allow myself into buffets), then keto seems to be the best way to eat.
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can the full body shit.
Do a split.
last time you took a week off the gym???
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When Lou Ferrigno was 18 he tried a one year bulk to add muscle mass, by eating anything and everything he could get his hands on and stuff down his throat. Mostly carbohydrates, so it was a fat building diet. He went from 220# to 305#, then he went on what he called a "Hellish" three month cut phase. How much muscle did he add in that year and three months? Two whole pounds!
Keto/low carb, is also a high fat diet. If you go with low carb, and low fat, then your body will hoard its body fat. That's the way your body works in losing or maintaining/accumulating body fat.
What works is 50% fat/40% protein/less that 10% carbs, everyday and at each feeding. Grains and root crops are nothing but body fat builders.
If you're natty keto will work for you that way. You need to get proper rest for your body too. You may be over doing the exercise.
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can the full body shit.
Do a split.
last time you took a week off the gym???
I recently started the full body, its helping my glutes and quads to grow for sure. Took a week off late december.
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If on 700mg test and no gains. Yikes man.
Time to rethink everything ur doing...
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If on 700mg test and no gains. Yikes man.
Time to rethink everything ur doing...
Im making gains pretty rapidly, but im not hardening up. Fat levels remain same and likely increasing. Lifts and BW going up daily
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Im making gains pretty rapidly, but im not hardening up. Fat levels remain same and likely increasing. Lifts and BW going up daily
then all is good. Don't expect to be a Greek god after one cycle. But 700mg test by now, should have you up by 20lbs. Stop worrying about being lean for now. Otherwise, you will just be spinning your wheels...
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When Lou Ferrigno was 18 he tried a one year bulk to add muscle mass, by eating anything and everything he could get his hands on and stuff down his throat. Mostly carbohydrates, so it was a fat building diet. He went from 220# to 305#, then he went on what he called a "Hellish" three month cut phase. How much muscle did he add in that year and three months? Two whole pounds!
Keto/low carb, is also a high fat diet. If you go with low carb, and low fat, then your body will hoard its body fat. That's the way your body works in losing or maintaining/accumulating body fat.
What works is 50% fat/40% protein/less that 10% carbs, everyday and at each feeding. Grains and root crops are nothing but body fat builders.
If you're natty keto will work for you that way. You need to get proper rest for your body too. You may be over doing the exercise.
Any examples of a 50/40/10 diet??
where are your 10% carbs coming from if not grains/root crops? Fruit?
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Any examples of a 50/40/10 diet??
where are your 10% carbs coming from if not grains/root crops? Fruit?
Not fruit, fructose is extremely fattening. Green vegetables, broccoli, cabbage, brusselsprouts, etc. (No spinach, asparagus once every couple of weeks) steam the veggies, cover with butter. Use a plain, no crap in it, whey isolate mixed in heavy cream. Old timers did that before the drug era. Eat fatty meats. Eat eggs. Eat fish. Eating Fat is not the enemy. Eating Carbs makes body fat. 50/40/10 is self explanatory.
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then all is good. Don't expect to be a Greek god after one cycle. But 700mg test by now, should have you up by 20lbs. Stop worrying about being lean for now. Otherwise, you will just be spinning your wheels...
I guess you are right. Im about week 5-6 now, i just hate looking flabby, its a mind fuck. I dont "look like im
On" anything. Just perma bulker kinda style
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I guess you are right. Im about week 5-6 now, i just hate looking flabby, its a mind fuck. I dont "look like im
On" anything. Just perma bulker kinda style
Well think long term and being a bigger version of what you are now. By summer. If you keep changing strategies everytime you gain or lose weight, you will end up the same.
Good luck, read up in the nutrition section perhaps. Something tells me you can top up some knowledge there!
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Not fruit, fructose is extremely fattening. Green vegetables, broccoli, cabbage, brusselsprouts, etc. (No spinach, asparagus once every couple of weeks) steam the veggies, cover with butter. Use a plain, no crap in it, whey isolate mixed in heavy cream. Old timers did that before the drug era. Eat fatty meats. Eat eggs. Eat fish. Eating Fat is not the enemy. Eating Carbs makes body fat. 50/40/10 is self explanatory.
yeah.... seems like a Vince Gironda type diet. Except even he recommended that type of eating only be done for 4-6 weeks at a time from what I remember.
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yeah.... seems like a Vince Gironda type diet. Except even he recommended that type of eating only be done for 4-6 weeks at a time from what I remember.
It's a diet Gironda was always on. Today you would call it Paleo or Atkins or Keto, but low carb and high fat diet for life, to cut the body fat, and keep it off, and for building real muscle tissue, that will stick around after you stop your routines. Drug built bodies shrink to nothingness after you stop your routines.
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It's a diet Gironda was always on. Today you would call it Paleo or Atkins or Keto, but low carb and high fat diet for life, to cut the body fat, and keep it off, and for building real muscle tissue, that will stick around after you stop your routines. Drug built bodies shrink to nothingness after you stop your routines.
I dont believe Vince ever cared about counting calories but what are your thoughts when doing this type of lifestyle diet? Eat 6 meals vs eating only when hungry? I think Vince only ate 2x a day on the steak and eggs diet
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Carbs make you fat indirectly, as they themselves rarely get turned into fat.
What happens is that in a caloric surplus you run out glycogen storage space. So, the the glucose stays in your blood. High blood sugar is toxic. So, the body prioritizes the burning of carbs for energy at rest, when it normally would be burning fat, which ends up getting stored, as the storage capacity for fat in the body is, for all intents, unlimited.
Same with alcohol, which has no storage area in the body. So, if you're drinking a lot, the alcohol gets burned first, then the carbs, and if there's a caloric surplus the fat gets stored.
At the end of the day, it's still a calorie game.
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good reality check!
Posted by a man who talks the talk and walks the walk.
Thanks Howard. I've been in ketosis twice when I was preping for roughly 3 weeks each time and I can tell you it was miserable. Maybe some people can do it. But for me there is no way I could year round
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Carbs make you fat indirectly, as they themselves rarely get turned into fat.
What happens is that in a caloric surplus you run out glycogen storage space. So, the the glucose stays in your blood. High blood sugar is toxic. So, the body prioritizes the burning of carbs for energy at rest, when it normally would be burning fat, which ends up getting stored, as the storage capacity for fat in the body is, for all intents, unlimited.
Same with alcohol, which has no storage area in the body. So, if you're drinking a lot, the alcohol gets burned first, then the carbs, and if there's a caloric surplus the fat gets stored.
At the end of the day, it's still a calorie game.
THIS,,and chuck the scale away..lower or play with calories,,protein is main goal to maintain/hold.use the mirror or pics to stay motivated.
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I dont believe Vince ever cared about counting calories but what are your thoughts when doing this type of lifestyle diet? Eat 6 meals vs eating only when hungry? I think Vince only ate 2x a day on the steak and eggs diet
Gironda ate often but not full meals. He believed in protein every four hours, around the clock. He had people set alarm clocks, so they woke up in the middle of the night to eat some protein. Of course the "protein" he recommended was Blair's, and that was half whole egg powder, so plenty of fat too, and mixed with heavy cream or half and half.
Fat people count calories. As Larry Scott said, about eating protein (Blair's again) we didn't measure it, we just shoveled it in. He used about two pounds of Blair's per day, plus his other meals, and developed his arms to 21+" before he used roids.
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Gironda ate often but not full meals. He believed in protein every four hours, around the clock. He had people set alarm clocks, so they woke up in the middle of the night to eat some protein. Of course the "protein" he recommended was Blair's, and that was half whole egg powder, so plenty of fat too, and mixed with heavy cream or half and half.
Fat people count calories. As Larry Scott said, about eating protein (Blair's again) we didn't measure it, we just shoveled it in. He used about two pounds of Blair's per day, plus his other meals, and developed his arms to 21+" before he used roids.
any protein powders you like and feel are old school quality nowadays?
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Well think long term and being a bigger version of what you are now. By summer. If you keep changing strategies everytime you gain or lose weight, you will end up the same.
Good luck, read up in the nutrition section perhaps. Something tells me you can top up some knowledge there!
Like the other poster said though, about lou ferrigno...is any of this weight gain beneficial? Its probably just all fat gain
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Like the other poster said though, about lou ferrigno...is any of this weight gain beneficial? Its probably just all fat gain
If you're eating a ton of calories, most of it will be in the form of carbs or fat. How much tuna in water, egg whites or skinless chicken breast can you eat?
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If you're eating a ton of calories, most of it will be in the form of carbs or fat. How much tuna in water, egg whites or skinless chicken breast can you eat?
Carbs and protein are 4 calories per gram. Fat is 9 calories per gram. To do keto successfully you need to eat a lot of fat. For instance, sour cream is about 950 calories per pint, mostly fat and protein, and less than 10% lactose, a carb. When you eat a lot of fat, it is easy to eat a lot of calories. Eating fat doesn't make you fat. Eating carbs is what makes you fat.
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Carbs and protein are 4 calories per gram. Fat is 9 calories per gram. To do keto successfully you need to eat a lot of fat. For instance, sour cream is about 950 calories per pint, mostly fat and protein, and less than 10% lactose, a carb. When you eat a lot of fat, it is easy to eat a lot of calories. Eating fat doesn't make you fat. Eating carbs is what makes you fat.
This argument comes down to semantics. On a very low carb diet it's almost impossible to get into a caloric surplus. Again, how much cheese can you eat without crackers or bread? How many egg yolks can you eat?Sour cream?
So, a low carb diet is for all intents a low calorie diet.
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Gironda ate often but not full meals. He believed in protein every four hours, around the clock. He had people set alarm clocks, so they woke up in the middle of the night to eat some protein. Of course the "protein" he recommended was Blair's, and that was half whole egg powder, so plenty of fat too, and mixed with heavy cream or half and half.
Fat people count calories. As Larry Scott said, about eating protein (Blair's again) we didn't measure it, we just shoveled it in. He used about two pounds of Blair's per day, plus his other meals, and developed his arms to 21+" before he used roids.
::)
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This argument comes down to semantics. On a very low carb diet it's almost impossible to get into a caloric surplus. Again, how much cheese can you eat without crackers or bread? How many egg yolks can you eat?Sour cream?
So, a low carb diet is for all intents a low calorie diet.
Careful here... Too much protein can spike insulin, saying cals don't count is purely retarded.
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Like the other poster said though, about lou ferrigno...is any of this weight gain beneficial? Its probably just all fat gain
This whole "is it fat gain" no offense, drop the pussy like attitude right now. This reminds me of people insist on gaining nothing but "lean body mass" and are impossible to coach.
Don't be your own worst enemy..
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This argument comes down to semantics. On a very low carb diet it's almost impossible to get into a caloric surplus. Again, how much cheese can you eat without crackers or bread? How many egg yolks can you eat?Sour cream?
So, a low carb diet is for all intents a low calorie diet.
No It Is Not, unless you eat very little of everything. A keto diet, if you're not anorexic, Is High fat, High protein and Very Low Carb lifestyle. Eating a lot of fat = eating a lot of calories, as I pointed out fats have 9 calories per gram, more than twice as many calories as carbs. You can't eat things without eating carbs too, because you suffer from a carb addiction, as do most Americans. Remember there are essentially fatty acids, fats, and essential amino acids, proteins, and there are no essential carbohydrates, none! You don't need carbs for health and fitness, regardless of what agribusiness tells you.
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Careful here... Too much protein can spike insulin, saying cals don't count is purely retarded.
Protein doesn't spike insulin higher than carbs do, and fats don't spike insulin very high at all. The more carbs you eat, the more insulin is released and the more fat the body produces. If you are a sedentary person, protein might add body fat, but an active hard working person won't have problems, as long as their diet is extremely low in carbs.
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Protein doesn't spike insulin higher than carbs do, and fats don't spike insulin very high at all. The more carbs you eat, the more insulin is released and the more fat the body produces. If you are a sedentary person, protein might add body fat, but an active hard working person won't have problems, as long as their diet is extremely low in carbs.
why spike it in the first place? You're giving out a free pass in terms of calories, if you seriously think that is good adice, so be it. I think it flat out sucks.
To him to decide who is talking logical here.
Dr Scott Conelly has said too much protein can spike insulin Dr Maur Padisquale (sp) as well. If you're gonna spike insulin, may as well do it with carbs as they taste so much better and make you feel good, keep you full....
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why spike it in the first place? You're giving out a free pass in terms of calories, if you seriously think that is good adice, so be it. I think it flat out sucks.
To him to decide who is talking logical here.
Dr Scott Conelly has said too much protein can spike insulin Dr Maur Padisquale (sp) as well. If you're gonna spike insulin, may as well do it with carbs as they taste so much better and make you feel good, keep you full....
I told you that carbs spike insulin higher than protein. That's the one of the problems with carbs creating fat creating body fat. The other problem is that carbs aren't essential for human health and fitness, so there is no reason to eat them at all.
Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale was a proponent of the high fat/low carb diet, (along with Vince Gironda), see his books THE ANABOLIC DIET, and THE METABOLIC DIET.
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Thyroid is good, on TRT. Actually cycling right now on just adex and 700mg of cyp.
Cardio, hiit and jogging. Full body lifts 3 x a week. Im not eating clean, but its mainly rice, tilapia, beef and sweet potatoz. Cheat meal a couple times a week. I seriously think its just genetics at this point, ive been thick skinned my entire life
By your own admission:
"Im not eating clean, cheat a few times a week, I think it's just genetics, I've always been thick skinned...."
This isn't genetics brother, you've just never actually had a proper diet not consisting of shit and you've never suffered. End of thread!
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OLd school answer: keep training and stop eating.
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No It Is Not, unless you eat very little of everything. A keto diet, if you're not anorexic, Is High fat, High protein and Very Low Carb lifestyle. Eating a lot of fat = eating a lot of calories, as I pointed out fats have 9 calories per gram, more than twice as many calories as carbs. You can't eat things without eating carbs too, because you suffer from a carb addiction, as do most Americans. Remember there are essentially fatty acids, fats, and essential amino acids, proteins, and there are no essential carbohydrates, none! You don't need carbs for health and fitness, regardless of what agribusiness tells you.
I'm aware that fat has 9 calories per gram, but fat is very satiating. You can't eat that much of it.
Moreover, carbs aren't stored as fat, but as glycogen. Fat is stored as fat, the exception being de novo lipogenesis, which is a very minor pathway.
If carbs alone make you fat, why is that in poor countries, where the diet consists mainly of carbs in the form of rice, that there is little obesity?
Answer: In these countries, the people are barely getting enough calories to maintain their metabolism. In a rich country like America, the rice, bread, pasta etc puts people in a caloric surplus.
Where is Adonis when I need him? ;D
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Where is Adonis when I need him? ;D
You just don't know how to send up a proper TA-Alert...
"I have too much willpower to eat dessert. It's not important to me"
That oughta do it.
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I'm aware that fat has 9 calories per gram, but fat is very satiating. You can't eat that much of it.
Moreover, carbs aren't stored as fat, but as glycogen. Fat is stored as fat, the exception being de novo lipogenesis, which is a very minor pathway.
If carbs alone make you fat, why is that in poor countries, where the diet consists mainly of carbs in the form of rice, that there is little obesity?
Answer: In these countries, the people are barely getting enough calories to maintain their metabolism. In a rich country like America, the rice, bread, pasta etc puts people in a caloric surplus.
Where is Adonis when I need him? ;D
And you won't find a great set of abs in poor countries either, because their bodies hoard what little fat they get on their stomachs. Carbs create skinny fat, answering the OP's question.
It doesn't take many carb calories to top off your glycogen stores, and the rest, if you don't burn it immediately for energy, is turned to fat.
Maybe if you worked out correctly and harder, you would develop an appetite?
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And you won't find a great set of abs in poor countries either, because their bodies hoard what little fat they get on their stomachs. Carbs create skinny fat, answering the OP's question.
It doesn't take many carb calories to top off your glycogen stores, and the rest, if you don't burn it immediately for energy, is turned to fat.
Maybe if you worked out correctly and harder, you would develop an appetite?
Yes carbs can make skinny fat, BUT!... If timed as I suggested, they become your friend!!!! A little Na-R-ala with them if need be and all is good.
Why suffer through keto? That if for guys willing to do shows, no regulars gym rats. It's not sustainable at all, ya make a mistake, you feel all messed up then gotta get back into ketosis again.
Pure living hell. Not to mention feeling like pure utter shit.
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Fellow at my gym has been getting shredded on a keto diet. He tells me he's eating mostly ground beef, cheese, deviled eggs, nuts, and apparently 8 tablespoons of avacado oil a day for extra fats.
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If fat doesn't contribute to bodyfat, why have bodybuilders been pulling the skin off chicken and separating the whites from the yolks for all these years?
Has it all been for nothing?
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So on the flip side, how would someone eat a low fat diet and still get enough healthy fats in for heart health?
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So on the flip side, how would someone eat a low fat diet and still get enough healthy fats in for heart health?
they take lots of fish oil caps, but that is kinda extreme and not done for long periods of time.
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If fat doesn't contribute to bodyfat, why have bodybuilders been pulling the skin off chicken and separating the whites from the yolks for all these years?
Has it all been for nothing?
Yes! For Nothing! And, they threw away a lot of valuable fat that the body needs in the process.
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I was on a keto diet for my last show, I did 8 weeks straight with only 2 refeed meals, I will say that it got me shredded but its a mindfuck at times, my body was making progress fast weekly, sometimes daily, but I had no pump whatsoever when training, if you can get past that part mentally, then you are golden, but my fats were high, lots of grass fed beef, salmon, avocado, brazil nuts, omega 3 eggs, mac nut oil.
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I was on a keto diet for my last show, I did 8 weeks straight with only 2 refeed meals, I will say that it got me shredded but its a mindfuck at times, my body was making progress fast weekly, sometimes daily, but I had no pump whatsoever when training, if you can get past that part mentally, then you are golden, but my fats were high, lots of grass fed beef, salmon, avocado, brazil nuts, omega 3 eggs, mac nut oil.
U looked great in the end.maybe sacrificed a little fullness,but for a natural you held on to some size.u went for condition.
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keto, no keto, carbs, no carbs whatever. it comes down to one factor.
Your calorie useage > than calorie intake. As you lean up and lose fat you need to also reduce your cals so you don't plateau. It is nature at its best.
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U looked great in the end.maybe sacrificed a little fullness,but for a natural you held on to some size.u went for condition.
agreed, in the end its all about condition, that's all you have control of anyway, you can't really control how big you can get, but everyone can get completely shredded, you just have to have the discipline and not stray from the diet.
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keto, no keto, carbs, no carbs whatever. it comes down to one factor.
Your calorie useage > than calorie intake. As you lean up and lose fat you need to also reduce your cals so you don't plateau. It is nature at its best.
NO! It's where the calories come from, that determines body fat %. If your calories mainly come from carbs, you get body fat. Cut the carbs out of your diet and body fat % goes down.
Another important thing about an extremely low carb diet is that it only burns off body fat.
All other diets burn down muscle tissue, and other body parts too. Not good.
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NO! It's where the calories come from, that determines body fat %. If your calories mainly come from carbs, you get body fat. Cut the carbs out of your diet and body fat % goes down.
Another important thing about an extremely low carb diet is that it only burns off body fat.
All other diets burn down muscle tissue, and other body parts too. Not good.
Calories are not calories, it's all how fats,sugars, carbs and protein interacted and are used in the body. Timing of the macro is also very important.
Fats help regulate hormones, sugars spike insulin as do carbs. They effect the body in completely differeht ways
When you have a surplus of overall caloric intake you will gain weight.
There is also insulin sensitivities, natural hormone levels, thyroid function and metabolism. All these effect how much and what of you should be eating
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That is the establishment lie, but not true. If you eat the things that make body fat, then you will be fat. Eating carbs is what makes you fat. There are plenty of porkers out there counting calories, on low carb diets, and never lose a pound. That's because eating carbs is what makes you fat.
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Sorry, I meant "on high carb diets", not low carb diets. I deleted the incorrect post.
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So if I go Keto and eat 4000 cals of fats I won't get fat? Calories it a measurement for energy if you don't but off that energy you gain weight. I thought that was the foundation of basic deiting. What I mevtioned above is the complexity of deiting
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This thread is a gathering place for misinformation/myths by Erik c.
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Sorry, I meant "on high carb diets", not low carb diets. I deleted the incorrect post.
That's not true either. I'm on 300g of carbs and I'm pretty lean. The amount of carbs you can diet depends on what is your coloric "ceiling". If you builds some one ceiling up through reverse dieting you can work with more carbs. That amount of muscle also depends on how much calories you can burn as more require more to maintain
Now some people have a shit metabolism, low thyroid functions, make a lot more estrogen and are low on insulin sensitivity then others. Those are the reasons they can't diet on high carbs
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So if I go Keto and eat 4000 cals of fats I won't get fat? Calories it a measurement for energy if you don't but off that energy you gain weight. I thought that was the foundation of basic deiting. What I mevtioned above is the complexity of deiting
The complexity of dieting is that fats and proteins are what builds and repairs every part of your body. That's why there are essential fatty acids and essential amino acids, fats and proteins. There are no essential carbohydrates, none. They serve no useful purpose in the body, so they either are used immediately for energy, or stored as glycogen, or turned into body fat, as there is absolutely nothing else that they are used for in the human body. You can easily live without eating any carbs at all. Eskimos, Laplanders, and Siberian Tungus people did that for thousands of years and survived quite well in extremely harsh conditions.
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The complexity of dieting is that fats and proteins are what builds and repairs every part of your body. That's why there are essential fatty acids and essential amino acids, fats and proteins. There are no essential carbohydrates, none. They serve no useful purpose in the body, so they either are used immediately for energy, or stored as glycogen, or turned into body fat, as there is absolutely nothing else that they are used for in the human body. You can easily live without eating any carbs at all. Eskimos, Laplanders, and Siberian Tungus people did that for thousands of years and survived quite well in extremely harsh conditions.
Yes sir I agree with you on that. I read some where that carbs are actually came part of humans diet after they started farming before that there wasn't really any
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You can live without eyeglasses and contact lenses too you know.
You people are morons. Humans subsisted off of carbs mainly as they were gathers moreso than hunters. The majority of the human diet was based off of roots, berries and barely edible fruits. Hunting and meat did not make up the majority of the early human diet.
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Fruits, grains, tubers, and mushrooms, insect larvae and aquatic mollusks was the main source of nutrition for early humans. Mostly carbs.
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Yes sir I agree with you on that. I read some where that carbs are actually came part of humans diet after they started farming before that there wasn't really any
I read that people did not always have eyeglasses and contact lenses and it wasn`t until they invented them that people could see better.
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I read that people did not always have eyeglasses and contact lenses and it wasn`t until they invented them that people could see better.
I heard that before they started eating carbs, their eye sight was perfect, and they didn't need eye glasses, nor contacts.
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You can live without eyeglasses and contact lenses too you know.
You people are morons. Humans subsisted off of carbs mainly as they were gathers moreso than hunters. The majority of the human diet was based off of roots, berries and barely edible fruits. Hunting and meat did not make up the majority of the early human diet.
You're talking about hominids, not modern homo sapiens sapiens.
North of the Arctic Circle, how long is the ripe barely edible fruit's and berry's season?
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You're talking about hominids, not modern homo sapiens sapiens.
North of the Arctic Circle, how long is the ripe barely edible fruit's and berry's season?
erik dropping some education
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You're talking about hominids, not modern homo sapiens sapiens.
North of the Arctic Circle, how long is the ripe barely edible fruit's and berry's season?
::)
Yes because Homo Sapiens did not originate out of Africa and live the majority of their time in similar environments.
Morons. As usual.
(http://stryder.com/staid/migration_of_anatomically_modern_humans_bldg_blog_2008.jpg)
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erik dropping some education
Yeah, if you are a moron and want wrong information. Go with him. Seems you like to be incorrect.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Spreading_homo_sapiens_la.svg/2000px-Spreading_homo_sapiens_la.svg.png)
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I could do this all day, educating the stupid that is.
(http://worldhistoryforusall.sdsu.edu/images/bigeras/era2/migrations_of_homo_sapiens_map.jpg)
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I hate to break it to you, but either you have the genetics to stay lean or you have to eat next to nothing or if you want to carry sizes then you got to eat clean cardio and lift intense. No short cuts
No a Keto lifestyle year round would not work very well as your body does not turn fat in to energy as well as carbs. It like 60-70% as proficient with fatwas it is carbs when it come to energy.
So unless you want your brain and body running on 60% energy year round don't do it
Also some peoples muscles can take Keto othets can't. For me it eats them fast for my friend she diets Keto and dosnt loss much
or you can buy a couple of bottles of tren ace at 70 bucks a pop and eat whatever you want....LOL
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::)
Yes because Homo Sapiens did not originate out of Africa and live the majority of their time in similar environments.
Morons. As usual.
(http://stryder.com/staid/migration_of_anatomically_modern_humans_bldg_blog_2008.jpg)
The evidence for out of Africa is fading away, with the recent discoveries in Central and East Asia. Though most are afraid to say it, in order not to rile the usual religious and politic PC types, it is looking as though Human Evolution was taking place in different places, at different times, and that we are not all out of Africa. We are not all brothers under the skin. The field of Human Evolution is due for a big revolution.
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Yeah, if you are a moron and want wrong information. Go with him. Seems you like to be incorrect.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Spreading_homo_sapiens_la.svg/2000px-Spreading_homo_sapiens_la.svg.png)
He's right. I was just trolling but when I get called an idiot I have to check the facts
20,000 B.C. to 9,000 B.C.: Transitional period known as the "Mesolithic," during which the bow-and-arrow appeared,[54] and gazelle, antelope, and deer were being intensively hunted,[55] while at the same time precursor forms of wild plant and game management began to be more intensively practiced. At this time, wild grains, including wheat and barley by 17,000 B.C.--before their domestication--were being gathered and ground into flour as evidenced by the use of mortars-and-pestles in what is now modern-day Israel. By 13,000 B.C. the descendants of these peoples were harvesting wild grains intensely and it was only a small step from there to the development of agriculture.[56] Game management through the burning-off of land to encourage grasslands and the increase of herds became widely practiced during this time as well. In North America, for instance, the western high plains are the only area of the current United States that did not see intensive changes to the land through extensive use of fire.[57]
Also during this time, and probably also for some millennia prior to the Mesolithic (perhaps as early as 45,000 B.C.), ritual and magico-religious sanctions protecting certain wild plants developed, initiating a new symbiotic relationship between people and their food sources that became encoded culturally and constituted the first phase of domestication well prior to actual cultivation. Protections were accorded to certain wild food species (yams being a well-known example) to prevent disruption of their life cycle at periods critical to their growth, so that they could be profitably harvested later.[58] Digging sticks for yams have also been found dating to at least 40,000 B.C.,[59] so these tubers considerably antedated the use of grains in the diet.
Foods known to be gathered during the Mesolithic period in the Middle East were root vegetables, wild pulses (peas, beans, etc.), nuts such as almonds, pistachios, and hazelnuts, as well as fruits such as apples. Seafoods such as fish, crabs, molluscs, and snails also became common during this time.[60]
Approx. 10,000 B.C.: The beginning of the "Neolithic" period, or "Agricultural Revolution," i.e., farming and animal husbandry. The transition to agriculture was made necessary by gradually increasing population pressures due to the success of Homo sapiens' prior hunting and gathering way of life. (Hunting and gathering can support perhaps one person per square 10 miles; Neolithic agriculture 100 times or more that many.[61]) Also, at about the time population pressures were increasing, the last Ice Age ended, and many species of large game became extinct (probably due to a combination of both intensive hunting and disappearance of their habitats when the Ice Age ended).[62] Wild grasses and cereals began flourishing,* making them prime candidates for the staple foods to be domesticated, given our previous familiarity with them.[63] By 9,000 B.C. sheep and goats were being domesticated in the Near East, and cattle and pigs shortly after, while wheat, barley, and legumes were being cultivated somewhat before 7,000 B.C., as were fruits and nuts, while meat consumption fell enormously.[64] By 5,000 B.C. agriculture had spread to all inhabited continents except Australia.[65] During the time since the beginning of the Neolithic, the ratio of plant-to-animal foods in the diet has sharply increased from an average of probably 65%/35%* during Paleolithic times[66] to as high as 90%/10% since the advent of agriculture.[67]
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keto, no keto, carbs, no carbs whatever. it comes down to one factor.
Your calorie useage > than calorie intake. As you lean up and lose fat you need to also reduce your cals so you don't plateau. It is nature at its best.
yup.
when i added some real EXERCISE to my routine.....biking, hiking, etc.. and burned another 2000 cals a week, I miraculously got leaner.
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The evidence for out of Africa is fading away, with the recent discoveries in Central and East Asia. Though most are afraid to say it, in order not to rile the usual religious and politic PC types, it is looking as though Human Evolution was taking place in different places, at different times, and that we are not all out of Africa. We are not all brothers under the skin. The field of Human Evolution is due for a big revolution.
You really are a moron.
No hope for you.
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The evidence for out of Africa is fading away, with the recent discoveries in Central and East Asia. Though most are afraid to say it, in order not to rile the usual religious and politic PC types, it is looking as though Human Evolution was taking place in different places, at different times, and that we are not all out of Africa. We are not all brothers under the skin. The field of Human Evolution is due for a big revolution.
I personally never claimed that place.
I knew that was all bullshit from the first time I heard it.
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He's right. I was just trolling but when I get called an idiot I have to check the facts
20,000 B.C. to 9,000 B.C.: Transitional period known as the "Mesolithic," during which the bow-and-arrow appeared,[54] and gazelle, antelope, and deer were being intensively hunted,[55] while at the same time precursor forms of wild plant and game management began to be more intensively practiced. At this time, wild grains, including wheat and barley by 17,000 B.C.--before their domestication--were being gathered and ground into flour as evidenced by the use of mortars-and-pestles in what is now modern-day Israel. By 13,000 B.C. the descendants of these peoples were harvesting wild grains intensely and it was only a small step from there to the development of agriculture.[56] Game management through the burning-off of land to encourage grasslands and the increase of herds became widely practiced during this time as well. In North America, for instance, the western high plains are the only area of the current United States that did not see intensive changes to the land through extensive use of fire.[57]
Also during this time, and probably also for some millennia prior to the Mesolithic (perhaps as early as 45,000 B.C.), ritual and magico-religious sanctions protecting certain wild plants developed, initiating a new symbiotic relationship between people and their food sources that became encoded culturally and constituted the first phase of domestication well prior to actual cultivation. Protections were accorded to certain wild food species (yams being a well-known example) to prevent disruption of their life cycle at periods critical to their growth, so that they could be profitably harvested later.[58] Digging sticks for yams have also been found dating to at least 40,000 B.C.,[59] so these tubers considerably antedated the use of grains in the diet.
Foods known to be gathered during the Mesolithic period in the Middle East were root vegetables, wild pulses (peas, beans, etc.), nuts such as almonds, pistachios, and hazelnuts, as well as fruits such as apples. Seafoods such as fish, crabs, molluscs, and snails also became common during this time.[60]
Approx. 10,000 B.C.: The beginning of the "Neolithic" period, or "Agricultural Revolution," i.e., farming and animal husbandry. The transition to agriculture was made necessary by gradually increasing population pressures due to the success of Homo sapiens' prior hunting and gathering way of life. (Hunting and gathering can support perhaps one person per square 10 miles; Neolithic agriculture 100 times or more that many.[61]) Also, at about the time population pressures were increasing, the last Ice Age ended, and many species of large game became extinct (probably due to a combination of both intensive hunting and disappearance of their habitats when the Ice Age ended).[62] Wild grasses and cereals began flourishing,* making them prime candidates for the staple foods to be domesticated, given our previous familiarity with them.[63] By 9,000 B.C. sheep and goats were being domesticated in the Near East, and cattle and pigs shortly after, while wheat, barley, and legumes were being cultivated somewhat before 7,000 B.C., as were fruits and nuts, while meat consumption fell enormously.[64] By 5,000 B.C. agriculture had spread to all inhabited continents except Australia.[65] During the time since the beginning of the Neolithic, the ratio of plant-to-animal foods in the diet has sharply increased from an average of probably 65%/35%* during Paleolithic times[66] to as high as 90%/10% since the advent of agriculture.[67]
Thanks for proving my point. Also go back further, 250,000 years ago. The majority of the human diet has always been Carbohydrates.
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I personally never claimed that place.
I knew that was all bullshit from the first time I heard it.
Well you are just as stupid as the rest of them then. Might as well believe in a 6000 year old earth.
Seriously, what do you have to gain by choosing to be willfully ignorant? The Evidence and Data is conclusive.
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Well you are just as stupid as the rest of them then. Might as well believe in a 6000 year old earth.
Seriously, what do you have to gain by choosing to be willfully ignorant? The Evidence and Data is conclusive.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Creation_Evidence_Museum_Original.jpg)
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Yeah, if you are a moron and want wrong information. Go with him. Seems you like to be incorrect.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Spreading_homo_sapiens_la.svg/2000px-Spreading_homo_sapiens_la.svg.png)
Your maps are entertaining, as long as you understand that there is no fossil record to prove the arrows on your maps are anything, but assumptions based on wishful thinking that the out of Africa scenario is correct. If humans came to be in different areas of the Earth, in separate evolutionary events, then your arrows and lines would be pointing in very different directions.
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Your maps are entertaining, as long as you understand that there is no fossil record to prove the arrows on your maps are anything, but assumptions based on wishful thinking that the out of Africa scenario is correct. If humans came to be in different areas of the Earth, in separate evolutionary events, then your arrows and lines would be pointing in very different directions.
My dad is a doctor in primatology (im not even joking he studies primates and monkeys for disease research) I seriously ask him if there is any know proof that people evolved from different areas. Ive never heard this. I thought be all came out of Africa and then evolved in different parts of the world. but separate species that evolved that are not linked? i don't think so
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My dad is a doctor in primatology (im not even joking he studies primates and monkeys for disease research) I seriously ask him if there is any know proof that people evolved from different areas. Ive never heard this. I thought be all came out of Africa and then evolved in different parts of the world. but separate species that evolved that are not linked? i don't think so
So I guess you believe that life only exists on Earth, and the rest of the Universe is lifeless and inorganic? I do believe that the Universe is crawling with life, intelligent life at that, and I can state with certainty that it did not come out of Africa. Neanderthals existed before us, but we didn't descend from them. Some believe we interbred with them, but when one considers the differences in just neck and head structures, it seems unlikely the offspring would be a viable person, most probably very deformed by either species' standards.
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Your maps are entertaining, as long as you understand that there is no fossil record to prove the arrows on your maps are anything, but assumptions based on wishful thinking that the out of Africa scenario is correct. If humans came to be in different areas of the Earth, in separate evolutionary events, then your arrows and lines would be pointing in very different directions.
???
Uh, the fossil record is extensive you fucking moron. Overwhelming as is the DNA and genetic evidence not to mention all of the archaeological evidence.
You are hopeless.
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So I guess you believe that life only exists on Earth, and the rest of the Universe is lifeless and inorganic? I do believe that the Universe is crawling with life, intelligent life at that, and I can state with certainty that it did not come out of Africa. Neanderthals existed before us, but we didn't descend from them. Some believe we interbred with them, but when one considers the differences in just neck and head structures, it seems unlikely the offspring would be a viable person, most probably very deformed by either species' standards.
Oh no there is life in the universe no question. Im just saying i would need to see say a complete different species of primate that was not a relative of what came out of africa and had no genetic connect. Thats basically what your saying right?
I mean i think that primates all came from one basic spices hundreds of millions years ago. then yes maybe maybe branched out and they evolved in to asians, blacks ect. but how far back are you wanting to go to say that we all didnt come from one place.. 500,000 a million 500 million
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Oh no there is life in the universe no question. Im just saying i would need to see say a complete different species of primate that was not a relative of what came out of africa and had no genetic connect. Thats basically what your saying right?
I mean i think that primates all came from one basic spices hundreds of millions years ago. then yes maybe maybe branched out and they evolved in to asians, blacks ect. but how far back are you wanting to go to say that we all didnt come from one place.. 500,000 a million 500 million
Look up Panspermia, a theory that life is ubiquitous throughout the Universe and literally travels the Universe planting the seed of life on planets continually. And life could have taken hold on Earth via Panspermia innumerable times, eventually creating many different species. Even unrelated species of Humans.
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Look up Panspermia, a theory that life is ubiquitous throughout the Universe and literally travels the Universe planting the seed of life on planets continually. And life could have taken hold on Earth via Panspermia innumerable times, eventually creating many different species. Even unrelated species of Humans.
Um thanks for that. I'd really like to read up on that
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Um thanks for that. I'd really like to read up on that
Yes it's a theory advanced by Sir Francis Crick, co-discoverer of DNA. He's probably not expert enough, and would be too lacking in scientific credibility, for True Adonis to give him the time of day, however I think Crick was brilliant.
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I honestly find everyone here has layed out bits and pieces of info that will help our poor confused op, lol!
So now that we have that settled, let's form a nice circle jerk and do each other!....
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Yes it's a theory advanced by Sir Francis Crick, co-discoverer of DNA. He's probably not expert enough, and would be too lacking in scientific credibility, for True Adonis to give him the time of day, however I think Crick was brilliant.
Haha I'll read up on it, might make a thread to discuss it
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Look up Panspermia, a theory that life is ubiquitous throughout the Universe and literally travels the Universe planting the seed of life on planets continually. And life could have taken hold on Earth via Panspermia innumerable times, eventually creating many different species. Even unrelated species of Humans.
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOO
Dumb as bricks. Homo species traveling on asteroids. ::)
I don`t think you understand Panspermia at all. Furthermore, a simple experiment is this, take any life form currently on earth and try to seed it, unaided on say Mars or the moon for that matter, what do you think will happen? (Hint, it, whatever organism you choose, wouldn`t even survive the trip in space)
As far as Panspermia happening in the Universe, sure its possible with nearby planets and conditions are right. On earth, not so much as the data currently suggests. Certainly not in your fucked up idea of fully formed Homo species traveling on asteroids to different planets.
You are a moron.
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Yes it's a theory advanced by Sir Francis Crick, co-discoverer of DNA. He's probably not expert enough, and would be too lacking in scientific credibility, for True Adonis to give him the time of day, however I think Crick was brilliant.
Big difference there genius.
Here is what Crick was referring to: "Crick and Orgel further speculated about the possibility that the production of living systems from molecules may have been a very rare event in the universe, but once it had developed it could be spread by intelligent life forms using space travel technology, a process they called "directed panspermia"
Do you know what space travel technology is?
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Big difference there genius.
Here is what Crick was referring to: "Crick and Orgel further speculated about the possibility that the production of living systems from molecules may have been a very rare event in the universe, but once it had developed it could be spread by intelligent life forms using space travel technology, a process they called "directed panspermia"
Do you know what space travel technology is?
Yes I know, but do you? Now let's see, if I were an intelligent space alien, (and in some other parts of the Universe, I'm probably thought of in just that way), I think I would spread life throughout the Universe, using giant ice balls called comets, here on Earth, carrying frozen simple life forms, that would seed planets when the comet got close to the those planets' sun(s) melting the comet and raining life on said planets through the broad tail it leaves behind as it enters and leaves a solar system.
Sure it could take awhile, but I have all the time in the Universe to accomplish my goal of spreading life.
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Vince Basile diets exclusively using a keto diet with Panspermia being his primary protein source.
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Adam the keebler elf arguing against
Erik C Adam the keebler elf.
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http://scottabelfitness.com/low-carb-diet-extremely-high-fat/ (http://scottabelfitness.com/low-carb-diet-extremely-high-fat/)
How a world champion powerlifter and bodybuilder does “low carb”
by Scott | Dec 31, 2014 | Nutrition | 2 Comments
Kevin WeissWorld Powerlifting Champ Kevin Weiss and I get together at least once per week for coffee.
At our last get together I could tell Kevin had dropped a couple lbs.
“Back on the high-fat diet” I asked him.
“Yep”, he said.
You see Kevin is just several weeks out from the next World Championships and he wants to make weight for a lighter weight class. And when dieting, Kevin – who is a natural “meat tooth” (in contrast to my “sweet tooth”) – he always opts for the extremely high-fat diet approach.
Now with Kevin, I would never ask “So, you back to low carbs diet?”
That would be like an insult to him. Kevin is an astute student of the game. He knows that the term “low carb diet” has no relevance to what he is doing: it’s the extremely high fat diet that is more descriptive of his approach:
And this is the mistake 99% of people out there make. Over coffee, Kevin explained to me why he gave up trying to help people with this diet: “Scott, they just won’t take their fats high enough to make it work long-term.”
Right on top of it as always!
Weight-Loss Competition Diet
Kevin needs to drop some weight but still be able to perform at his best. And if you buy into industry nonsense you would think that since Kevin is a powerlifter his emphasis would be on getting in enough protein.
WRONG!
His emphasis is in getting in a high enough amount of fat.
In fact the protein macro ratio of his weight-loss competition diet, is just over 12%! That’s right! 12% Protein!!! Read on. This is what the “low carbs diet approach” was supposed to be all along – AN EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY HIGH FAT DIET. So I got Kevin to scribble down his meals for that day for me, but I’ll only show you two. I had a great laugh out loud moment: Check this “weight-loss diet” out:
Breakfast:
3 whole eggs
4 slices bacon
4 tablespoons sour cream
2 slices cheddar cheese
2 tablespoons butter
˝ cup heavy cream
Lunch
2 cups spinach
1 avocado
3 oz. regular ground beef
4 tablespoons olive oil
1 slice cheddar cheese
Meal Alternative
Sometimes he’ll have this meal option
2 teaspoons coconut oil
4 ounces prime rib
3 whole eggs
1 cup spinach
˝ cup feta cheese
˝ cup heavy cream
4 tablespoons sour cream
OK, so you get the picture: the true essence of a low-carbs approach that can actually work and not negatively impact metabolism is that it is EXTREMELY high in fat.
Kevin and I then discussed how many ladies we know who whine about being “carb resistant” would ever eat a diet high enough in fat to be metabolically constructive. On a lark, we decided to breakdown his macros for everyone to understand fully what I said in Part 1: a low carbs diet was NEVER MEANT TO BE A HIGH PROTEIN DIET!
Kevin’s “weight-loss high fat diet macro breakdown looked like this when all is said and done:
Protein: less than 13%
Carbs: 5%
Fat: a whopping 82%.
And then he corrected this by saying he forgot that later that day he was hungry so he had a whole avocado with cream cheese – this skews his macros even more, meaning his protein was less than 12%, and his fats even higher than 82%.
THIS; my friends – is the REAL intention and look of the “low carbs” diets. But how many of you are willing to adapt it in real terms. No, instead fitness industry twits, try and tweak the science of this and turn it into a “moderate fat” – “high protein” “low carbs diet” – and this was never the original structure of “the extremely high fat diet approach.” And the consequences of twisting this diet into a high protein, medium fat, low carbs diet -> is that it is metabolically destructive and creates a host of digestive issues to boot. Why? Because it is never done correctly to begin with.
Metabolic Shift
And let’s not forget metabolic shift involved in going to an EXTREMELY HIGH FAT approach. Kevin is quick to point out that when switching to his greater than 82% fat diet – the calories must be high at first to accomplish the “metabolic shift” involved with processing fats.
World Champion Kevin Weiss knows what he’s doing! Like me, he pays no attention to industry vogue trends. He follows the “low carbs diet” as it was originally designed and intended – as an extremely, extremely, high fat diet. He’s already noticeably losing weight -> digestion fine, performance fine; degree of difficulty for diet-compliance for him – negligible.
The reason industry consumers get into so much trouble with trying to go “low carbs” is because you twist what that is supposed to even mean; and unless you are willing to go extremely, extremely high fat then you should trash any notion of thinking low carbs is right for you.
Remember Web-MD and other academic sites correctly state that “the extremely high fat diet is VERY demanding and extremely difficult to follow.” They also comment that such a diet would be suited to a very limited proportion of the general public. Keep that in mind when you consider the “low carbs approach” – and realize that “fad” diets like Paleo, and Atkins, and South Beach – they are marketing “mutations” of low-carbs diets – far away from their original structure and design: and that means they will likely do more harm than good – and even more likely is that they will not be sustainable, long-term!
As usual I caution: Some of you will get it – some of you won’t want to!
UPDATE
Kevin just returned from the World Championships Raw Powerlifting, where he AGAIN won his weight class and made weight easily with “the extremely high fat diet approach.”
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http://scottabelfitness.com/real-low-carb-diet-1/ (http://scottabelfitness.com/real-low-carb-diet-1/)
The REAL low carb diet — before the marketers got to it (part 1)
by Scott | Dec 23, 2014 | Nutrition | 1 Comment
Most of what you’ve been sold about “low carbs diets” is incomplete and misinformed.
I am not a fan of low-carbs diets to begin with… and that is when they are done right!
But what is passing for a “low carbs diet” now doesn’t even equate to the original intention or use of the low carb approach. I’m going to discuss the reality of low-carbs diets.
Today is part 1, but in part 2 I’m going to solicit some help from my friend and colleague Kevin Weiss who at competition time (and ONLY AT COMPETITION TIME!) follows the “true and authentic” low-carbs approach to lose weight, make his weight class, and lift like a champion. (And oh, he’s only a World Champion in Raw powerlifting – and bodybuilding as well.)
Low Carbs Diet Nonsense: What you NEED to Know
In the last two years I’ve devoted a fair amount of my research time to a specific niche of nutrition science.
I’ve been studying the “history” of various diets – how they came to be, how they came to be marketed; and what the real truth of modern nutrition is, based upon what nutritional science history reveals to us.
The “low-carbs diets nonsense” so many of you have bought into is not what the true intentions of the low-carbs diet approach was ever meant to be. More than likely you want to follow a low carbs diet-approach for cosmetic reasons. For others, you’ve been fed so much bullcrap junk science about carbs that you want to follow a low-carbs diet because you are ‘afraid’ of carbs. And that has a lot to do with the history of diet trends.
In the 1970’s the “low-fat” diet approach was the vogue trend and all the rage. And like any trend it had its victors. I myself to this day follow a low-fat, higher carbs approach. But there were and are no one size fits all diet agendas.
And a decade of “low-fat” madness didn’t work for everyone, although it did make people “afraid” of fats as a fuel source. Remember that as we move forward now.
Before there was Atkins, there was always talk in esoteric medical journals about an alternative approach to dieting – AS A WAY TO TREAT VARIOUS BRAIN DISORDERS (specifically, epilepsy).
This diet-approach to “treatment” was referred to as “the extremely high fat diet approach” for treatment. Look at that phrase carefully. This is where diet-psychology and marketing comes into play. It also is where something becomes “mutated” from one purpose to another, and twisted to fit some marketing agenda, even if it violates the rules and principles this thing is founded upon. And such was the case for the “low-carbs diet” approach.
Notice how I put “diet” after the low-carbs phrase: because this is where all the nonsense ensues.
Diet Industry Quandary
In the wake of the low-fat diet revolution; there was a diet-mentality madness associated with the word “fat” as a nutritional component.
The word to this day strikes fear into chronic dieters. Those professionals who believed strongly in a possible benefit for the “extremely high fat diet” approach… well they had a dilemma. In terms of diet-psychology, there was no way to “convince” the consumer – who had been led to fear “fats” – you that there was a benefit to “extremely high fats” as an approach to weight-control.
And this is the dilemma the marketers had. When you want to make money selling a diet “revolution” (as Atkins called it) you can’t do it by getting people to buy into a notion of a sudden 180 degree psychological flip from “low-fat” dieting (because fat is evil and makes you fat) and then expect them to believe “extremely high fat diet” is suddenly the key to weight control.
“Extremely High Fat” vs “Low Carbs”
To make a long story short, the Atkins generation skirted around the intent of the “actual” extremely high fat diet approach. “High-fat” was scary, but the term “low carbs” diet made more sense.
Just like “low fat” made fat the enemy to be feared for weight-gain, well now marketers could do the same by coining the term “low carbs” to fit their diet marketing agenda. The only problem with this is that the term “low carbs” is actually disingenuous to the REAL purpose of the extremely high fat diet approach.
The original notion of extremely high fat diets, was all about its effects on brain chemistry for people with brain disorders like epilepsy. It was never supposed to be about health, nutrition, weight-loss or metabolism. Those are just diet-industry created notions. Historically, the reason medical experts were emphasizing this diet was because of the influence of extremely high fats – and not because of the “low carbs” on the other side of that equation. The modern dieter doesn’t know any of this stuff.
Moreover, in terms of the real intentions of the “extremely high fat diet” Web-MD said this: “The problem with this diet is that it is EXTREMELY DEMANDING and should usually be undertaken IN A MEDICAL SETTING. The extremely high fat diet should provide 4 X’s as many fat calories as protein calories.” It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that this is not how the “low carbs’ approach is being applied; especially in the fitness industry and the “get-lean” agenda.
The Low Carbs Diet is NOT a High Protein Diet!
You see Atkins and the rest of these diet pushers couldn’t sell a diet-agenda that suggests it is “extremely demanding” or that it should be followed in a medical/hospital setting. That certainly is no way to make money in the diet industry. So they just ignored “the truth” of the actual ketogenic diet approach – why it was designed to begin with (to treat brain disorders; and how hard it would be to follow if done correctly)
What ended up happening was a pop-culture unfolding of misdirected interpretation of the ‘extremely high fat diet’ as the new ‘low carbs diet.’ But since most dieters and pop-culture followers of “nutrition” still were convinced that “fat” was a bad word – now they were to add “carbs” to this of nutritional profanity as well. Dieters were now fearful of both carbs and fats – and the result is the complete misapplication of the low-carb diet agenda –which was always meant to be “an EXTREMELY high fat diet agenda.
“Protein-Sparing Nutrients”
You see the whole notion of a low carbs diet is that it can only work and work properly if fats are not only high – BUT EXTREMELY HIGH.
Get this through your heads – A LOW CARBS DIET WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE A HIGH-PROTEIN DIET!
Because followers of the diet industry’s agenda have been so misled to fear both carbs and fats, the whole low-carbs diet approach ended up becoming a high protein diet approach, because followers will never push their fats high enough for this diet to work as it is designed to work. And protein has been sold as some kind of miracle macronutrient.
And those who try to follow this faulty version of ‘low-carbs = high protein and medium fats’ – these people usually pay a high metabolic price for making this mistake. And don’t even get me started on the side-effects of a mis-applied ketogenic or low carbs diets. It’s a mess of digestive issues and other metabolic and health consequences. You can look up “side effects of keto-diets” for yourself – just do so on reputable sites like Web-MD, or Pub-Med.
Basic nutritional biochemistry teaches that carbs and fats are meant to be “protein sparing nutrients.”
This means that EITHER or BOTH carbs and fats must be high enough in the diet, to allow protein to be “spared” to be used to build and rebuild tissue as it is meant to do.
It’s this purpose and the nitrogen component of protein that makes protein special to begin with. But a high protein diet, usually means that either fats or carbs are not high enough – and this produces more harm than good.
And when it comes to the “extremely high fat diet approach” that the low-carb diet is REALLY supposed to be, the percentage of fat in the diet needs to be upward of 70% fats. In truth, the “low carbs” approach — when it is done correctly – it is actually a VERY LOW protein diet.
In Part 2, I’ll give you an example of someone who understands the truth of all of this – and that is that a “real” low carbs diet is an EXTREMELY high fat diet. And you will see someone who uses this knowledge to his advantage to lose weight easily, feel great with lots of energy, and to win World Championships.
The take away message for Part 1 though is that a “true and authentic” low-carbs diet MUST BE an extremely high fat diet in order to work in a positive way metabolically. The original low-carbs diet was never meant to be a high protein diet. Please read this take away message a dozen times or more, till it sinks in!
More in part 2!
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http://gregorytaper.com/2013/10/25/sugar-resource-page/ (http://gregorytaper.com/2013/10/25/sugar-resource-page/)
“There is a great anti-sugar cult, with even moralistic overtones, equating sugar craving with morphine addiction. Sugar craving is usually caused by the need for sugar, generally caused by hypothyroidism. When yeasts have enough sugar, they just happily make ethanol, but when they don’t have sugar, they can sink filaments into the intestine wall seeking it, and, if the person is very weak, they can even invade the bloodstream and other organs. Milk, cheese, and fruits provide a very good balance of nutrients. Fruits provide a significant amount of protein. Plain sugar is o.k. when the other nutrients are adequate. Roots, shoots, and tubers are, next to the fruits, a good carbohydrate source; potatoes are a source of good protein. Meat as the main protein can provide too much phosphorus in relation to calcium.”
—Ray Peat, PhD
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Im sooo sick of cutting cals to get to 8-10 percent bf.
I need a lifestyle change. Is Keto healthy in the long
Run? Is it possible to run it year round during "bulks" and "cuts"?
I want to be lean year round. So sick of being self conscious of my flab in winter and then struggling to maintain low BF during summer.
And by keto I dont mean chowing on cheap bacon from disgusting and unethical factories, or 80/20 conventional cheap burger patties from costco. Im talking fish, veggies, nuts, some eggs and chicken and grass fed meats
Just relocate to nice warm climate & don't eat a la American style , eating burgers :P
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I was on a keto diet for my last show, I did 8 weeks straight with only 2 refeed meals, I will say that it got me shredded but its a mindfuck at times, my body was making progress fast weekly, sometimes daily, but I had no pump whatsoever when training, if you can get past that part mentally, then you are golden, but my fats were high, lots of grass fed beef, salmon, avocado, brazil nuts, omega 3 eggs, mac nut oil.
Was it difficult to train and lift heavy during keto? Get exhausted quicker?
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Was it difficult to train and lift heavy during keto? Get exhausted quicker?
no, I actually maintained my strength even though I was losing weight, by the end of the prep I dropped about 20 pounds, my lifts were on par at with what I was lifting in the off season, but no pump, which just messes with you mentally.
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Interesting stuff. Im gonna try hi fat but im worried about brain and heart health.
Glad this convo got back on track
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Interesting stuff. Im gonna try hi fat but im worried about brain and heart health.
Glad this convo got back on track
Your brain is made up of mostly cholesterol. You need fat for a healthy brain, and for nerves too.
There is no relationship between dietary fat and heart disease. That's based on the old faulty "lipid theory of heart disease" made up by the old charlatan Ancel Keys.
You also need fat for your body to produce hormones, and to have your immune system functioning properly. Every cell in your body, including muscle cells, requires dietary fat in order to have the thin lipid layer around it, that differentiates one cell from another.
Your whole body is built out of fats and proteins. No carbs required.
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http://scottabelfitness.com/low-carb-diet-extremely-high-fat/ (http://scottabelfitness.com/low-carb-diet-extremely-high-fat/)
Abel makes an important point which is often overlooked (or not understood).
The Keto Diet is a high fat and moderate to low protein die. Eating high protein defeats the purpose
Also, most people can't jump into eating that level of fat over night ( I know I can't)
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Here are two good non-BB websites about keto diets that I've followed for a couple of years
http://eatingacademy.com/
http://www.dietdoctor.com/
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Abel makes an important point which is often overlooked (or not understood).
The Keto Diet is a high fat and moderate to low protein die. Eating high protein defeats the purpose
Also, most people can't jump into eating that level of fat over night ( I know I can't)
Very good post here. True how the fats make ya feel nauseaus and give me the shits if taken from oil.
But the joys of being an ecto, eating ice cream, fries everyday and never getting really fat. Ah,hahaha....
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I just tried the anabolic diet this last month
I ate 4000 cals per day, and despite loosing weight, after 4 weeks I was looking like fucking shit.
after the first 2 carbs up, I was gaining all my fulness back.
but the 3rd and 4th week, I was carbing up and still looked hyper flat and bad
switched back to my old way of dieting, high carbs mod protein low fat
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Abel makes an important point which is often overlooked (or not understood).
The Keto Diet is a high fat and moderate to low protein die. Eating high protein defeats the purpose
Also, most people can't jump into eating that level of fat over night ( I know I can't)
The reason for this is that Ketosis is a starvation safeguard. The brain would rather run on glucose.
So, when more than enough protein is present, it's converted to glucose via Gluconeogenesis.
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I just tried the anabolic diet this last month
I ate 4000 cals per day, and despite loosing weight, after 4 weeks I was looking like fucking shit.
after the first 2 carbs up, I was gaining all my fulness back.
but the 3rd and 4th week, I was carbing up and still looked hyper flat and bad
switched back to my old way of dieting, high carbs mod protein low fat
Can u show what a low fat diet looks like? Like how/what your meals look?
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The reason for this is that Ketosis is a starvation safeguard. The brain would rather run on glucose.
So, when more than enough protein is present, it's converted to glucose via Gluconeogenesis.
I'm not in any way proclaiming to be an expert on this subject but I've read that being in a ketogenic state is actually beneficial to the brain in some circumstances.
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I'm not in any way proclaiming to be an expert on this subject but I've read that being in a ketogenic state is actually beneficial to the brain in some circumstances.
I've heard this, too, but if this is really the case, why is the body so quick you out of Ketosis? The logical answer is that the body prefers to not be in it.
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I'm not in any way proclaiming to be an expert on this subject but I've read that being in a ketogenic state is actually beneficial to the brain in some circumstances.
Yes, I would love to have a surgeon or an airline pilot in ketosis. :-\
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Yes, I would love to have a surgeon or an airline pilot in ketosis. :-\
you wouldn't know if they were or weren't
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you wouldn't know if they were or weren't
If you got close enough you can smell the keytones
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you wouldn't know if they were or weren't
Do you get funnier in ketosis? (I hope so.)
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Yes, I would love to have a surgeon or an airline pilot in ketosis. :-\
Yeah, I always prefer surgeons and pilots who are hypoglycemic or diabetic, from high carb diets.
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If you got close enough you can smell the keytones
true but he might smell it on his breath if he were close enough but it would have no negative effect on performance and possibly have an positive effect
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Yeah, I always prefer surgeons and pilots who are hypoglycemic or diabetic, from high carb diets.
I would love to have an obese pilot. He`s not gonna crash the plane because he is looking forward to brunch when he lands.
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true but he might smell it on his breath if he were close enough but it would have no negative effect on performance and possibly have an positive effect
I don't no man, when I went Keto I went to the grocery store once and completely forget where I was and why I was there. I also missed my exit to work and drove like 5 miles before I relized what I was doing. It also messed with my emotions bad
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I've heard this, too, but if this is really the case, why is the body so quick you out of Ketosis? The logical answer is that the body prefers to not be in it.
your body probably does what is easiest
again, I'm not claiming to be any kind of an expert (yes, I know this shocking for GB.com where lack of actual knowledge translates into overwhelming confidence in one's opinion on a topic)
Here are some sources of additional info
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/2013/10/01/the-fat-fueled-brain-unnatural-or-advantageous/
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2013/10/deep-dive-ketosis-navy-seals-extreme-athletes-busy-executives-can-enhance-physical-mental-performance-secret-weapon-ketone-fuel/
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Do you get funnier in ketosis? (I hope so.)
yes, I'm much more funny while in ketosis
that is one of the well documented benefits
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yes, I'm much more funny while in ketosis
that is one of the well documented benefits
Let me know when this happens. I must witness this.
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Let me know when this happens. I must witness this.
As in the past it would still be over your head
My time would be better spent showing my dog a card trick
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As in the past it would still be over your head
My time would be better spent showing my dog a card trick
Dogs actually LOVE magic tricks! I put on a magic show about a month ago for my Greyhound. He had a little hat and everything. Here is one of the videos I used.
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Dogs actually LOVE magic tricks! I put on a magic show about a month ago for my Greyhound. He had a little hat and everything. Here is one of the videos I used.
We need more useful, on topic information. Could you let your dog post from now on instead of you?
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My dog made this and wanted me to post it.
(http://files2.coloribus.com/files/adsarchive/part_1529/15291355/file/pet-adoption-charity-slob-600-17586.jpg)
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no, I actually maintained my strength even though I was losing weight, by the end of the prep I dropped about 20 pounds, my lifts were on par at with what I was lifting in the off season, but no pump, which just messes with you mentally.
Did you monitor calories? Made sure you were in a deficit?
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Watched this last year. It was revealing how the Mongolians prefer to eat the fat above everything else. No access to any tubers there due to the harsh conditions.
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I just tried the anabolic diet this last month
I ate 4000 cals per day, and despite loosing weight, after 4 weeks I was looking like fucking shit.
after the first 2 carbs up, I was gaining all my fulness back.
but the 3rd and 4th week, I was carbing up and still looked hyper flat and bad
switched back to my old way of dieting, high carbs mod protein low fat
Advice from the Father: Poutine is not anabolic. "La Belle Province" or otherwise.
This may have been your dietary problem my friend.
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More about high fat diet:
http://www.vox.com/2015/1/6/7481067/high-fat-diet
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From a health point of view its terrible to be on a high fat diet (even healthy fats) if you are taking steroids, will play havoc with your cholesterol. That is why most juiced bodybuilders will opt for low fat diets.
If you are natty its not so bad to do keto but u will lose a ton of muscle. (nature of the beast)
I find intermittent fasting to be the best of all diets. Fast for 18 hours a day, then eat something like 40:40: 20 within your caloric allowance before bedtime in one or two meals max.
This greatly helps if you suffer from insomnia and you wake up fresh as apposed to starved on Keto and is just very convenient way to eat if you busy lifestyle.
Also intermittent fasting jacks up your natty GH levels like crazy as proven by science.
LOL..................... ................
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From a health point of view its terrible to be on a high fat diet (even healthy fats) if you are taking steroids, will play havoc with your cholesterol. That is why most juiced bodybuilders will opt for low fat diets.
If you are natty its not so bad to do keto but u will lose a ton of muscle. (nature of the beast)
I find intermittent fasting to be the best of all diets. Fast for 18 hours a day, then eat something like 40:40: 20 within your caloric allowance before bedtime in one or two meals max.
This greatly helps if you suffer from insomnia and you wake up fresh as apposed to starved on Keto and is just very convenient way to eat if you busy lifestyle.
Also intermittent fasting jacks up your natty GH levels like crazy as proven by science.
Says the guy who made a video of himself eating a double meat cheeseburger and extra large fries at McDonalds while sauced to the gills. ;)
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From a health point of view its terrible to be on a high fat diet (even healthy fats) if you are taking steroids, will play havoc with your cholesterol. That is why most juiced bodybuilders will opt for low fat diets.
If you are natty its not so bad to do keto but u will lose a ton of muscle. (nature of the beast)
I find intermittent fasting to be the best of all diets. Fast for 18 hours a day, then eat something like 40:40: 20 within your caloric allowance before bedtime in one or two meals max.
This greatly helps if you suffer from insomnia and you wake up fresh as apposed to starved on Keto and is just very convenient way to eat if you busy lifestyle.
Also intermittent fasting jacks up your natty GH levels like crazy as proven by science.
::)
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Cheat meals don't count :D
You fucked for like 6 hours straight the night before...I'll give you a pass on that one. 8)
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LOL.....................................
X2
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Ok you can argue with my endocrinologist who just happens to have a PHD in steroidology about what a terrific idea it is from a health point of view to eat a high fat diet when on steroids ::)
It's a fucking awful idea, you need to understand basic effects of steroids on the heart and cholesterol.
The science is out there, so research it and educate yourself.
::)
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Ok you can argue with my endocrinologist who just happens to have a PHD in steroidology about what a terrific idea it is from a health point of view to eat a high fat diet when on steroids ::)
It's a fucking awful idea, you need to understand basic effects of steroids on the heart and cholesterol.
The science is out there, so research it and educate yourself.
What is your endocrinologist's name? Just in case I ever need one, I want to avoid going to him/her.
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If keto is so good, why are Eskimo's fat?
Shouldn't they just be able to walk on a stage anytime and win? AFter all, they do all sorts of "functional taining" by hunting and building igloo's.
Explain Guru's...
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(http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/prometheus-sacrificial-engineer-570x290.jpg)
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If keto is so good, why are Eskimo's fat?
Shouldn't they just be able to walk on a stage anytime and win? AFter all, they do all sorts of "functional taining" by hunting and building igloo's.
Explain Guru's...
#1. It's a racial stereotype.
#2. Eskimos on their traditional diet aren't fat at all. Those that have become welfare bums and get food stamps, eat the processed high carb SAD (Standard American Diet), so of course they get fat.
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The Ketogenic Diet helps to control seizures in some people with epilepsy
The ketogenic diet is a special high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet that helps to control seizures in some people with epilepsy.
Doctors usually recommend the ketogenic diet for children whose seizures have not responded to several different seizure medicines.
The typical ketogenic diet, called the "long-chain triglyceride diet," provides 3 to 4 grams of fat for every 1 gram of carbohydrate and protein.
Several studies have shown that the ketogenic diet does reduce or prevent seizures in many children whose seizures could not be controlled by medications.
What happens first?
Typically the diet is started in the hospital. The child usually begins by fasting (except for water) under close medical supervision for 24 hours. For instance, the child might go into the hospital on Monday, start fasting at 6 p.m. and continue to have only water until 6 a.m. on Tuesday. The diet is then started, either by slowly increasing the calories or the ratio. This is the typical Hopkins protocol.
There is growing evidence that fasting is probably not necessary for long-term efficacy, although it does lead to a quicker onset of ketosis.
The primary reason for admission in most centers is to monitor for any increase in seizures on the diet, ensure all medications are carbohydrate-free, and educate the families.
http://www.epilepsy.com/learn/treating-seizures-and-epilepsy/dietary-therapies/ketogenic-diet
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From a health point of view its terrible to be on a high fat diet (even healthy fats)...will play havoc with your cholesterol.
Why should anyone be concerned with dietary intake of cholesterol? Or about cholesterol in general? Do you still believe cholesterol causes heart disease? Do you work for Big Pharma?
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It's about mitigating risk factors for heart disease and stroke when on cycle and in general not compounding them.
High fat diets will increase your bad cholesterol (eating healthy fats is better but still doesn't change the fact that your bad cholesterol will go up regardless) clogging up ur arteries.
Steroids will decrease your good cholesterol levels.
Steroids will increase your Red Blood Cell count and hemocrit making your blood thicker which means your heart has to work harder.
Steroids will increase your resting heart rate, heart working harder again
Steroids will increase blood pressure.
Steroids will made your body weight go up, more work for the heart as well as cause water retention on high fat diet.
Eating high fat will increase blood pressure, as will sodium intake if its too high and also cause bloating.
Eating high protein, high fat will make your kidneys have to work all that much harder.
All in all eating a high fat high protein diet is the worst possible combination for heart disease and stroke when on steroids.
You can research it yourself any doctor or endocrinologist (such as mine with PHD in steroidology) who understands effects steroids and diet on heart will tell u the same.
Oh brother ::)
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You can research it yourself any doctor or endocrinologist (such as mine with PHD in steroidology) who understands effects steroids and diet on heart will tell u the same.[/color
"(such as mine with a PHD in steroidology)" LOLOLOL!
Maybe you should stay off the steroids.
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shit genetics, generally short have no frame to carry any muscle anyway and cos they don't lift or juice.
cold weather lowers test levels, cos you need vitamin d from the sun.
Those genetics are directly tied to the type of diet they consumed for generations. Fat storage genetics of peace.
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shit genetics, generally short have no frame to carry any muscle anyway and cos they don't lift or juice.
cold weather lowers test levels, cos you need vitamin d from the sun.
so why are they so huge and jacked in Iceland then?
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so why are they so huge and jacked in Iceland then?
Culture and steroids.
They don`t start out that way.
3-4 years between these pics.
(http://workoutsquad.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/hafthor-bjornsson-comparison.jpg)
(http://oi42.tinypic.com/2r5yt6q.jpg)
(http://www.kr.is/wp-content/uploads/2013/karfa-files/images/karfa/drengjaflokkur/2006-2007/reykjavikurmot/hafthor_og_oli_bjorn.jpg)
And on their culture of lifting:
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Culture and steroids.
They don`t start out that way.
BS!
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It's about mitigating risk factors for heart disease and stroke when on cycle and in general not compounding them.
High fat diets will increase your bad cholesterol (eating healthy fats is better but still doesn't change the fact that your bad cholesterol will go up regardless) clogging up ur arteries.
Steroids will decrease your good cholesterol levels.
Steroids will increase your Red Blood Cell count and hemocrit making your blood thicker which means your heart has to work harder.
Steroids will increase your resting heart rate, heart working harder again
Steroids will increase blood pressure.
Steroids will made your body weight go up, more work for the heart as well as cause water retention on high fat diet.
Eating high fat will increase blood pressure, as will sodium intake if its too high and also cause bloating.
Eating high protein, high fat will make your kidneys have to work all that much harder.
All in all eating a high fat high protein diet is the worst possible combination for heart disease and stroke when on steroids.
You can research it yourself any doctor or endocrinologist (such as mine with PHD in steroidology) who understands effects steroids and diet on heart will tell u the same.
Thanks for chiming in bro. However, i was under the impression that its the simple carbs and carbs that increase LDL. My HdL is sky high on hi fat intake, and i thought research shows that Hi fat low carb is the go to approach for people with cholesterol issues.
Keep in mind, when i say hi fat, im still limiting shit meats like burgers meat from the big chains, crap fish, etc. my Hi fat diet is basically lean white fish or salmon, organic Pb and walnuts, grassfed beef and cream, organic eggs and chicken and chicken skin. Lots of veggies and TONS of raw olive oil (not cooked or heated) . Most doctors would say thAt is perfect for someone who wants to keep lipids in check while on cycle unless im missing something.
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I think its very important to focus on your food sources as you mentioned.
When I say carbs I mean good carbs and I totally discount sugar which is another huge no no for cholesterol problems.
I almost view sugar as a different entity....i.e. legal poison.
I totally agree with you about the kind of diet you outlined which is what generally most serious bodybuilders consume, organic low fat meats, yams potatoes, rice, olive oil etc.
Most peoples idea of keto diet though is very different though, whipping cream , peanut butter, red meat, bacon, mayonaise.....thats a horrible fucking diet.
Best diets on cycle are like chicken rice, fish rice, salad and veg with bit of olive oil etc, something moderate protein, moderate good carbs, low healthy fats.
if bulking red meat is ok, but not really when dieting unless its once in a while.
You get best results that way and its most healthy too for heart and kidneys and body doesn't have to work overtime like your kidneys
You're a fucking joke.
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Dude you cannot compare eating habits and make ridiculous assumptions about genetic lines and evolution stemming billions of years...and say why these people are like this and those people are like that...etc and obviously there will be exceptions always.....lol
Its way to fucking complex to even think about answering that question even if there was an answer to it in the first place.
The Iceland people are probably Viking descendants, totally different kettle of fish.
Africans have best fucking genetics in general. No fucking idea why, but they do and they eat wheat.
So do asians and indians who happen to live the longest but are short small fuckers in general.
Just the way it is
was just funnin' you guys man, lol!!!
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U funny fucker, come say hello to me at the Arnold in Melbourne. I want autograph :D ;D
Fuck man, never been to a show, but this is the one I've always wanted to go to... Haven't taken a winter trip. And weed is legal there therefore I can travel to this place.
Hmmm....
(time to up my gear dose in case I someone knows who I am so I look "real life big" ahahaha...)
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Thanks for chiming in bro. However, i was under the impression that its the simple carbs and carbs that increase LDL. My HdL is sky high on hi fat intake, and i thought research shows that Hi fat low carb is the go to approach for people with cholesterol issues.
Keep in mind, when i say hi fat, im still limiting shit meats like burgers meat from the big chains, crap fish, etc. my Hi fat diet is basically lean white fish or salmon, organic Pb and walnuts, grassfed beef and cream, organic eggs and chicken and chicken skin. Lots of veggies and TONS of raw olive oil (not cooked or heated) . Most doctors would say thAt is perfect for someone who wants to keep lipids in check while on cycle unless im missing something.
You are correct, recent and even old research confirms this (Gary Taubes goes into it in great detail in Good Calories Bad Calories and the condensed version in Why We Get Fat)
Solid Diet. Good high quality sources of fat (and no industrial seed oils). My diet is pretty much the same except I don't like cream though I eat full fat cottage cheese from grass fed dairy almost every day (http://www.kalonasupernatural.com/) and like you I don't heat or cook with olive oil or coconut oil. I add it to hot food (veggies) after they are cooked. I do cook eggs in ghee. For nuts I like macadamia, sprouted almond and pumpkin seeds and sometime almond butter or walnut butter (added to protein drinks). I eat a lot of sardines too (especially with skin and bones)
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You are correct, recent and even old research confirms this (Gary Taubes goes into it in great detail in Good Calories Bad Calories and the condensed version in Why We Get Fat)
Solid Diet. Good high quality sources of fat (and no industrial seed oils). My diet is pretty much the same except I don't like cream though I eat full fat cottage cheese from grass fed dairy almost every day (http://www.kalonasupernatural.com/) and like you I don't heat or cook with olive oil or coconut oil. I add it to hot food (veggies) after they are cooked. I do cook eggs in ghee. For nuts I like macadamia, sprouted almond and pumpkin seeds and sometime almond butter or walnut butter (added to protein drinks). I eat a lot of sardines too (especially with skin and bones)
What can u cook with (if u cant cook with coconut? I thought that was fine?)
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I cook everything in butter or Bacon Fat. Usually Bacon Fat.
Because it tastes the best.
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So say you try hi fat diet, how long until you start seeing changes in BF? Will u look worse before u look better?
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I cook everything in butter or Bacon Fat. Usually Bacon Fat.
Because it tastes the best.
This is the healthiest fat to cook with (serious), besides maybe coconut or Mac nut oil. And the most delicious, agreed.
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What can u cook with (if u cant cook with coconut? I thought that was fine?)
I like cooking with ghee. I'm sure coconut oil is fine as long as it doesn't get really hot for a long time.
I don't like the taste of stuff cooked in coconut which is why I don't do it (though for some reason I like it adding it to already cooked food).
Another person mentioned MacNut oil and I like that too
I don't fry much of anything and I'm not much of a cook and I'm also not on a Keto diet (i.e low protein and very high fat).
I just prefer to limit carbs most of the time but I'm not strident about it. I'll eat a sandwich or pizza or pasta on occasion.
I'll eat a bit of basmati rice, potato's etc..mostly post workout
If I were trying to get leaner I would cut all of that out. I'm just trying to be healthy.
My diet most closely resembles what these people recommend (not exactly though): http://perfecthealthdiet.com/
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Steroids will decrease your good cholesterol levels.
Interesting post by "Rex Feral" from professionalmuscle:
You guys really focus too much on HDL. The research doesn't substantiate your focus.
The first thing that makes low HDL virtually useless as a predictor in an androgen using population is upregulated reverse cholesterol transport. If the job of HDL that we we are primarily concerned with is reverse cholesterol transport and androgens upregulate reverse cholesterol transport then how can you argue that a low HDL for an androgen using exercising bodybuilder should be judged on the same scale as a natural sedentary person?
Example - "By lowering high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, testosterone contributes to the gender difference in HDL cholesterol and has been accused to be pro-atherogenic. The mechanism by which testosterone influences HDL cholesterol is little understood. We therefore investigated the effect of testosterone on the gene expression of apolipoprotein A-I (apoA-I), hepatic lipase (HL), scavenger receptor B1 (SR-BI), and the ATP binding cassette transporter A1 (ABCA1), all of which are important regulators of HDL metabolism. Testosterone led to a dose-dependent up-regulation of SR-BI, which was assessed on both the mRNA and the protein levels. As a functional consequence, we observed an increased HDL(3)-induced cholesterol efflux from macrophages. At supraphysiological dosages, testosterone also increased the expression of HL in HepG2 cells. These data suggest that testosterone, despite lowering HDL cholesterol, intensifies reverse cholesterol transport and thereby exerts an anti-atherogenic rather than a pro-atherogenic effect."
This also tells us what we should be concerned with. It is not HDL but rather cholesterol efflux capacity.
Example - "It is unclear whether high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol concentration plays a causal role in atherosclerosis. A more important factor may be HDL cholesterol efflux capacity, the ability of HDL to accept cholesterol from macrophages, which is a key step in reverse cholesterol transport. We investigated the epidemiology of cholesterol efflux capacity and its association with incident atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease outcomes in a large, multiethnic population cohort. We measured HDL cholesterol level, HDL particle concentration, and cholesterol efflux capacity at baseline in 2924 adults free from cardiovascular disease who were participants in the Dallas Heart Study. In contrast to HDL cholesterol level, which was associated with multiple traditional risk factors and metabolic variables, cholesterol efflux capacity had minimal association with these factors. Baseline HDL cholesterol level was not associated with cardiovascular events in an adjusted analysis. In a fully adjusted model that included traditional risk factors, HDL cholesterol level, and HDL particle concentration, there was a 67% reduction in cardiovascular risk in the highest quartile of cholesterol efflux capacity versus the lowest quartile. Cholesterol efflux capacity, a new biomarker that characterizes a key step in reverse cholesterol transport, was inversely associated with the incidence of cardiovascular events in a population-based cohort."
That all but proves, on some 3000 people, that HDL does not matter and cholesterol efflux capacity does. These are normal people also not using androgens with upregulated efflux.
One more time for those who find this hard to accept given their constant obsession with their HDL while on androgens. "Cholesterol-efflux capacity, which is a marker of HDL function that measures reverse cholesterol transport, is inversely associated with incident atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease in a large population of patients healthy at baseline. The findings, say researchers, support 'retiring' the HDL cholesterol hypothesis—the idea of simply raising HDL cholesterol to reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease—and instead should shift the focus to measures of HDL functionality."
HDL is low because you don't need as much of it. It's a biofeedback mechanism and not a reliable indicator of anything in an androgen using population and more and more evidence mounts to prove this is true for the general population as well. I think most people don't know this about androgens.
Rex.
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So say you try hi fat diet, how long until you start seeing changes in BF? Will u look worse before u look better?
Ask Jimmy Moore, Author of "Keto Clarity," and "Nutritional Ketosis."
(http://carbsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Jimmy-Moore-Australia.jpg)
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Ask Jimmy Moore, Author of "Keto Clarity," and "Nutritional Ketosis."
(http://carbsmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Jimmy-Moore-Australia.jpg)
Lol come on man...so u really think hi fat low carb is not worthy of trying ?
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Lol come on man...so u really think hi fat low carb is not worthy of trying ?
you might not need to go to either extreme
I personally find it difficult to eat a really high fat diet
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you might not need to go to either extreme
I personally find it difficult to eat a really high fat diet
Who wants to eat 85% fat? This is the problem with extreme diets. In the long run people don't stick with them.
IMO, a 33% of each macro will work fine. Get your green Leafys, and adequate amounts of protein. Eat some healthy fats and limit starchy carbs. Done.
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Who wants to eat 85% fat? This is the problem with extreme diets. In the long run people don't stick with them.
IMO, a 33% of each macro will work fine. Get your green Leafys, and adequate amounts of protein. Eat some healthy fats and limit starchy carbs. Done.
Too logical for most to understand...
Any diet that excludes any macro is not for us long term, no way.
Then when you do go off the diet, you feel all sluggish and shit, it's just not for most yet some thrive on it.
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Who wants to eat 85% fat? This is the problem with extreme diets. In the long run people don't stick with them.
IMO, a 33% of each macro will work fine. Get your green Leafys, and adequate amounts of protein. Eat some healthy fats and limit starchy carbs. Done.
I don't count anything but I'm probably at about 50% fat on average
assuming I eat 200 grams of protein and 150 gram of carbs that's only 1400 calories so another 1400 from fat is 50% and there are some days where both protein and carbs are lower
there are some days where I eat whatever I want and carbs are much higher
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Who wants to eat 85% fat? This is the problem with extreme diets. In the long run people don't stick with them.
IMO, a 33% of each macro will work fine. Get your green Leafys, and adequate amounts of protein. Eat some healthy fats and limit starchy carbs. Done.
Right but isnt 1 hi carb meal a week enough to reep health and bf changes a low carb diet brings with still getting in some carbs?
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Rex Feral from "professional muscle" vs One of the top endocrinologist in the country who is professor of steroidology .....who would you listen too. ::)
Anecdotal evidence can be useful but in real science its total bullshit.
What about all the other factors like increased RBC? Narrowing of the arteries etc? The point is to reduce as much risk factors as possible, high fat diets don't help.
Having said that its interesting article dude.....by the way I am gonna start Keto tomorrow cos I wanna lose some fat quick....HAHA
That only adresses low HDL readings and their relevance. He doesn't say steroids are beneficial overall. The question is, should androgen users freak out over low HDL specifically.
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Right but isnt 1 hi carb meal a week enough to reep health and bf changes a low carb diet brings with still getting in some carbs?
You don't need any carbs for health. Quite the reverse, carbs cause ill health.
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Rex Feral from "professional muscle" vs One of the top endocrinologist in the country who is professor of steroidology .....who would you listen too. ::)
Anecdotal evidence can be useful but in real science its total bullshit.
What about all the other factors like increased RBC? Narrowing of the arteries etc? The point is to reduce as much risk factors as possible, high fat diets don't help.
Having said that its interesting article dude.....by the way I am gonna start Keto tomorrow cos I wanna lose some fat quick....HAHA
What university gives out degrees in Steroidology?
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So how much olive oil can you use on hi fat diets? Alot?
For breakfast i went to whole foods and had 2 peices of london broil, mixed greens and smoothered all of it in olive oil and vinegar. Was amazing. Is that hi fat enough?
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I appreciate the article offers food for thought about HDL readings and is interesting.
Nonetheless, the discussion I am having with you is NOT about the overall safety of using steroids and its risk to reward ratio.
What we are talking about specifically here is what kind of diet is best for overall health while using anabolic steroids to mitigate as best as possible heart failure, stroke and kidney problems and other factors steroids expedite.
The answer to that question is high fat diets (especially bad fats) and sugar should be avoided as much as possible.
This is one reason the vast majority of bodybuilders running huge cycles opt for diets which are moderate to high protein, moderate to high carbs (not sugar) and low healthy fats.
The evidence is resounding as to why that is the case if you research it, far beyond the scope of this thread for me to detail it all.
Low Carb/Keto diets work great for fatloss, but make no mistake about them being remotely healthy, especially while running gear.
I have a feeling 50 percent of people agree with the last statement
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The problem with the vast majority of gym rats cycling and getting less than optimal results is simply because they don't eat enough to let steroids do their job.
This was basically the reason for my OP. I was crushing alot of "healthy" foods. Rice, chicken, salmon, whole wheat pastas or quinoa pasta, olive oil, fish oil....and im on cycle,....and just kept getting fatter, not better. Which is why i want to experiment with hi fat diet. Keep in mind im only on 700mg of test a week, nothijg else
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If you are training properly and enough with the right intensity, volume and frequency you should not be getting fat eating clean foods within your TDEE depending on your goals.
I also accept it is very difficult to eat lots and lots of clean foods if you are trying to add muscle, its almost like a full time job eating enough, that is why diet is the hardest part of this game and why most people fail.
I need stats overall to assess and give opinion, weight, height, BF %, current training schedule, diet, goals + how many years regular training etc.
6ft, 210. Honestly man im lean everywhere but my lower back, stomache and tits. When i gain weight, that is where it goes. So unless im 8-10 percent, i look lousy with no shirt on. I do cRdio and HIIT often. Full body split 3 times a week now. I want to be full and 8 percent at 200lb, and keep around there year round
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Threads like these make me miss galeniko and no one, they would slap the shit out of all of you.
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Are you taking Aromatize Inhibitor such as Arimidex on the 700mg Test that you are on? If not then you definitely should be by the sound of things.
If you are getting fat near your tits, stomach and lower back its often sign you have way too much estrogen floating around in your body and you are no doubt getting water retention.
Anything above 500mg Test and I will be on 1mg Arimidex EOD otherwise I will look like a total bloated pig. Test at those levels will aromatise easily.
Also working out only 3 times a week doing full body????? That is not good my friend.
I don't think you are working out enough or eating enough, you need to up both and take AI if you are not. When on cycle is the time to KILL IT, you can get away with eating more and training more because you recover more quickly, that is the whole point of juicing in the first place so take advantage of it.
You should be eating and training something like this if possible. You can adjust splits but generally should look like this.
Training: twice a day. 6 times a week min.
Mornings:
Empty Stomach- Monday - Saturday 45min - 1 hour cardio (change up between LISS & HITT depending on how you feel...do HIIT only 2-3 times week max)
Evenings: 45 mins to 1 hour 15 min max
Monday: Chest + Back
Tuesday: Shoulders + Arms
Wednesday: Legs
Thursday: Off
Friday: Repeat cycle
Train each body part AT LEAST 2 times a week. Do at least 30-40 sets per muscle group possibly apart from arms which you can do around 20 ish. Don't rest more than a minute, incorporate super sets, drop sets and keep intensity up as much as muscle, you should be drenched with sweat after it.
Total focus on mind/muscle connection and only use weight that allows you to have constant tension on muscle all the time. Forget weight and reps, just focus on pain and suffering as much on the muscle group you are training. I mean good pain not injury type pain.
Diet: Depending on TDEE and Goals (adjust cals depending on that) try and eat at least 5 times a day, although 8 is better, small portions but regular. Get foods from rice, potatoes, chicken, lean red meat, fish, oats, vegtibles and salads, olive oil etc
After morning Cardio.
Oats + Whey
2-3 hours later.
Rice + Steak.
2-3 hours later.
Chicken + Rice.
2-3 hours later
Fish + Rice.
2-3 hours later
Just chicken + veg.
2-3 hour later
Cottage cheese + omelette
....drink shit loads of water everyday and be in bed by 10.00pm
That or similar kinda of regime is what most serious guys will train and eat like.
Yes, pharma adex at .5mg EOD, can bump up if u really think its necessary. Also, when on trt or even moderate cycles under 500mg, my estrogen is ALWAYS around 15-30. The weight gain in those areas i speak of are unrelated and probably bro science about the estro
Bro i just dont want to be fat or even permabulker. My face gets fat, my jaw line receeds when i get fat, and the part about tits, stomache etc. im too old to do that bulking stuff. Thats why i need to find an approac that works year round that lets me enjoy life somewhat and not get fat and bloofy. Ive been there and done that.