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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Palumboism on April 01, 2015, 11:22:15 AM
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Here are three new models released at this years New York Auto show.
Cadillac CT6
Lexus RX350
Chevrolet Malibu
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Honda Civic coupe concept with 1.5 turbo engine. :D
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Cadillac desperately needs CT6 to succeed.
Currently the only hit on their hands is the Escalade. It's a shame because the CTS-V is world class.
Issues with overly high price tags and too many dealerships (700+ in US) are crippling progress.
Caddy are pricing much of current lineup at same level as established luxury marques........they haven't really earned the ability to pull this off at this point. GM should shitcan Buick and put resources into Cadillac.
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Cadillac desperately needs CT6 to succeed.
Currently the only hit on their hands is the Escalade. It's a shame because the CTS-V is world class.
Issues with overly high price tags and too many dealerships (700+ in US) are crippling progress.
Caddy are pricing much of current lineup at same level as established luxury marques........they haven't really earned the ability to pull this off at this point. GM should shitcan Buick and put resources into Cadillac.
March Sales
BMW 34,000
Mercedes 32,000
Lexus 31,000
...
Cadillac 14,000
You're right about the prices on Cadillac's, a four cylinder non turbo ATS is $34K.
When you ruin a brand it takes years of great products to get people to change their minds. In Cadillac's diffence, the luxury car market has so many competitors right now.
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Agreed. The Art & Science marketing makeover started over a decade ago for Cadillac with countless millions spent in attempting to change the image with mixed results.
I want Cadillac to succeed. It is a long road ahead. Hopefully GM sticks to their strategy. They do not have a long history of success in branding a luxury line. They need to weed out the low performing Cadillac dealerships and mandate stand alone Cadillac franchises. The dealership experience these luxury customers expect requires this. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus have FAR fewer franchises and absolutely crush Cadillac's sales numbers.
Cadillac should also begin punishing by death the dealerships that install wire wheels, gold trim badges and landau roofs as dealer installed options to new Cadillac inventory in order to pad profits. This is unfortunately still a common practice in pockets of this country. It works completely against the huge marketing dollars being spent to attract new customers and shed their old image.
I do not envy Cadillac executives' jobs......it won't be easy.
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Cadillac built over-sized, too heavy, poor handling, mushy suspension, chunks of low grade pig iron because that is what the WWII generation wanted.
They didn't see the change coming in automotive driving tastes. They thought the desire for fun, sprightly, well handling GT style cars was just a temporary California based fad. They thought as the children of the WWII generation aged they would start to want cars like their dad's.
They did not see the success of the 1964 Pontiac GTO, Mustang, Volkswagen GTI, Corvair (If they had bothered to engineer it better) as being a harbinger of things to come.
GM should shitcan Buick and put resources into Cadillac.
Can you believe that GM was so stupid to keep Buick, but kill Pontiac? The division most associated with GT style cars.
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Agreed. The Art & Science marketing makeover started over a decade ago for Cadillac with countless millions spent in attempting to change the image with mixed results.
I want Cadillac to succeed. It is a long road ahead. Hopefully GM sticks to their strategy. They do not have a long history of success in branding a luxury line. They need to weed out the low performing Cadillac dealerships and mandate stand alone Cadillac franchises. The dealership experience these luxury customers expect requires this. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus have FAR fewer franchises and absolutely crush Cadillac's sales numbers.
Cadillac should also begin punishing by death the dealerships that install wire wheels, gold trim badges and landau roofs as dealer installed options to new Cadillac inventory in order to pad profits. This is unfortunately still a common practice in pockets of this country. It works completely against the huge marketing dollars being spent to attract new customers and shed their old image.
I do not envy Cadillac executives' jobs......it won't be easy.
There's a lot of debate about the changes being made at Cadillac on the car forums. Older customers seem to be frustrated about Cadillac chasing imports or shedding their "American" image. While this is true, it is customers that abandoned old school Cadillac first. The luxury market changed in the 1990s thanks to the addition of Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura. What sold so well for Cadillac to that point simply wasn't working anymore and they eventually had to adapt.
Cadillac focuses on the imports because customers focus on the imports. Most buyers today unfortunately don't want what once made Cadillacs Cadillacs. Cadillac HAD to change
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2016 Nissan Maxima. :D
2016 Jaguar XF. To me this look exactly the same as the old car and I question why they wouldn't change it more.
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There's a lot of debate about the changes being made at Cadillac on the car forums. Older customers seem to be frustrated about Cadillac chasing imports or shedding their "American" image. While this is true, it is customers that abandoned old school Cadillac first. The luxury market changed in the 1990s thanks to the addition of Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura. What sold so well for Cadillac to that point simply wasn't working anymore and they eventually had to adapt.
Cadillac focuses on the imports because customers focus on the imports. Most buyers today unfortunately don't want what once made Cadillacs Cadillacs. Cadillac HAD to change
Totally agree Cadillac had to change or die.
Perception is reality, and perception is true luxury is only found in Euro brands (atrocious running costs IMO), or fanatical Asian perfection (Lexus primarily and Acura, Infiniti second tier Asian prestige marques).
Cadillac's only claim to fame is blending euro styling (gold standard), with blood & guts high caliber/displacement HP.......American manufacturers are the equal/or superior to anybody else's HP numbers even when using antiquated pushrod configurations. The sad reality is that consumers in this upper echelon value brand equity over pure spec sheet advantages.
If consumers bought on spec sheet alone, the $70K cts-v with 556hp would be runaway hit.
The sad reality is that perceived brand image and value causes most consumers to choose MB or BMW over cts -v.
I really want Cadillac to win.......I have deep concerns that those in charge don't "get it".
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CT6 is hideous.
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2015 RX 350 in the garage right now. Wife's car. She likes it. It's a solid luxury SUV.
The F-series is a whole different thing.
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U guys really know your cars and car brands 8)
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That honda type r will sell nicely if brought to the states. The fiesta and focus st from ford are gaining a big following and civics are already one of the most modified cars out there. Every street has a rice can civic on it.
The new wave of fun cars has to be accessible and have a decent aftermarket behind it and so far the trend of modding cheaper cars for high hp and better handling is still strong. Buddy pf.mine has a focus st and put almost 20k into it and it beats a lot of cars three times its price.
I like the look of the new focus rs. Awd, turbo hatchback and a ton of power to weight as stock. I wanna see mazda, subaru and vw step up their game soon or the gti, wrx and ms3 are going to suffer because on paper the focus rs destroys those cars.
Toyota needs to release a new supra as well. Or something more powerful than the frs. They nailed the handling and styling of it, but it.needs a turbocharged engine. If they took the boxer engine out of the wrx sti (since they worked with subaru on the frs/brz) they could really have a great car there.
And id like to see something more interesting from Nissan too. A new Silvia/240sx would be cool. Not a lot of fun rwd vehicles out there these days unfortunately.
Unfortunately the average car these days looks the same as any other and doesn't inspire any interest from me. American csr buyers are boring as hell for the most part and just want a box with wheels to get from a to b. The new fad of these turbocharged awd crossovers is silly too. Having a family vehicle put down 230+ bhp is stupid, mom isn't going to use even half of that powerband.
Still saving my money for a MKIV supra or skyline ;) or a nice 4x4.
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bet they don't have any of these there, a real man's car... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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That honda type r will sell nicely if brought to the states. The fiesta and focus st from ford are gaining a big following and civics are already one of the most modified cars out there. Every street has a rice can civic on it.
The new wave of fun cars has to be accessible and have a decent aftermarket behind it and so far the trend of modding cheaper cars for high hp and better handling is still strong. Buddy pf.mine has a focus st and put almost 20k into it and it beats a lot of cars three times its price.
I like the look of the new focus rs. Awd, turbo hatchback and a ton of power to weight as stock. I wanna see mazda, subaru and vw step up their game soon or the gti, wrx and ms3 are going to suffer because on paper the focus rs destroys those cars.
Toyota needs to release a new supra as well. Or something more powerful than the frs. They nailed the handling and styling of it, but it.needs a turbocharged engine. If they took the boxer engine out of the wrx sti (since they worked with subaru on the frs/brz) they could really have a great car there.
And id like to see something more interesting from Nissan too. A new Silvia/240sx would be cool. Not a lot of fun rwd vehicles out there these days unfortunately.
Unfortunately the average car these days looks the same as any other and doesn't inspire any interest from me. American csr buyers are boring as hell for the most part and just want a box with wheels to get from a to b. The new fad of these turbocharged awd crossovers is silly too. Having a family vehicle put down 230+ bhp is stupid, mom isn't going to use even half of that powerband.
Still saving my money for a MKIV supra or skyline ;) or a nice 4x4.
Focus RS is a hot ride for the money. I'm a purist and really prefer RWD platform but I know times are changing and torque steer has been tamed a bit in higher HP fwd applications.
Expect to see Toyaburu twins get a lung attached to bump HP and keep vehicle interest from sagging. The two door sports car segment is notoriously fickle with consumers constantly switching their attention span to the next greatest offering. Shelf life of these vehicles is shorter than in other segments.
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Cadillac desperately needs CT6 to succeed.
Currently the only hit on their hands is the Escalade. It's a shame because the CTS-V is world class.
Issues with overly high price tags and too many dealerships (700+ in US) are crippling progress.
Caddy are pricing much of current lineup at same level as established luxury marques........they haven't really earned the ability to pull this off at this point. GM should shitcan Buick and put resources into Cadillac.
Also, Cadillac dealerships right next to/conjoined to Buick, Chevy, GMC dealerships. They need stand alone dealerships.
What is interesting is that the CT6 has a toned down interior, whereas the Lincoln Continental has an up to date, yet old skool 70s Luxury interior...like you can go to sleep in the seats.
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Focus RS is a hot ride for the money. I'm a purist and really prefer RWD platform but I know times are changing and torque steer has been tamed a bit in higher HP fwd applications.
Expect to see Toyaburu twins get a lung attached to bump HP and keep vehicle interest from sagging. The two door sports car segment is notoriously fickle with consumers constantly switching their attention span to the next greatest offering. Shelf life of these vehicles is shorter than in other segments.
Focus RS is AWD and can have 70% of the torque sent to the rear wheels.
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Focus RS is AWD and can have 70% of the torque sent to the rear wheels.
I stand corrected......maybe mixing up with Focus ST? Thought there was a hot fwd version available?
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Also, Cadillac dealerships right next to/conjoined to Buick, Chevy, GMC dealerships. They need stand alone dealerships
Agree this is huge problem......that segment of customers wants a more "special" experience at their dealership. GM needs to drastically reduce number of Cadillac franchises and differentiate remaining dealers with stand alone buildings and highly trained sales staff......this will take shitload of cash and hurt lots of feelings when/if the necessary cuts are made.
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I stand corrected......maybe mixing up with Focus ST? Thought there was a hot fwd version available?
Yeah...ST is the FWD
They "consulted" with Ken Block in making sure that the RS could drift. 345 hp for I think under 40k?
Check this Ken Block Ford RS vid, where he takes a prototype thru the Ford Cologne factory...
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Agree this is huge problem......that segment of customers wants a more "special" experience at their dealership. GM needs to drastically reduce number of Cadillac franchises and differentiate remaining dealers with stand alone buildings and highly trained sales staff......this will take shitload of cash and hurt lots of feelings when/if the necessary cuts are made.
The new products are slick...the new CTS is easily identified with those four vertical LEDs, it's become it's calling card. The ATS is nice, bland, but out handles the 3 series. Interiors of both the ATS and CTS are impressive to me.
And that is why Cadillac needs to do as you said. They have a great opportunity. No other GM brands should be
Near them. You want the luxury buying experience that is befitting to a luxury brand. Look at what Lexus does.
There are no Toyota dealerships around. Just stand alone dealerships with excellent customer service, and interior design that is both modern, luxurious and comfortable.
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I would take the Golf R over a focus RS any day
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The new products are slick...the new CTS is easily identified with those four vertical LEDs, it's become it's calling card. The ATS is nice, bland, but out handles the 3 series. Interiors of both the ATS and CTS are impressive to me.
And that is why Cadillac needs to do as you said. They have a great opportunity. No other GM brands should be
Near them. You want the luxury buying experience that is befitting to a luxury brand. Look at what Lexus does.
There are no Toyota dealerships around. Just stand alone dealerships with excellent customer service, and interior design that is both modern, luxurious and comfortable.
Agree on all points.
The cts-v is an American M5 with better looks IMO. Most likely more reliable electronics and far lower cost of ownership once outside factory warranty. The headlights are defining feature. This car is hands down best American sedan ever manufactured. Seems like neither the customers nor dealer network are prepared to capitalize on it.
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Yeah...ST is the FWD
They "consulted" with Ken Block in making sure that the RS could drift. 345 hp for I think under 40k?
Check this Ken Block Ford RS vid, where he takes a prototype thru the Ford Cologne factory...
That is a pretty fierce package. Looks like the STi has met its match. I like direction Ford is going but they have troubling quality issues across the lineup. They are also a decade behind Cadillac in rebranding the Lincoln lineup. The Lincoln dealers I work with privately hate franchise and look forward to its demise. New Continental at least got the looks right. Years of rebranding Fords with boatloads of chrome and fake wood have eroded the brand. Like Cadillac, I'm also pulling for Lincoln, but I have serious doubts it can pull out of current state.
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I would take the Golf R over a focus RS any day
People on bimmerpost's M2 board are talking about cross shopping the M2 and Focus RS, and the Golf R. That is a pretty fierce package. Looks like the STi has met its match. I like direction Ford is going but they have troubling quality issues across the lineup. They are also a decade behind Cadillac in rebranding the Lincoln lineup. The Lincoln dealers I work with privately hate franchise and look forward to its demise. New Continental at least got the looks right. Years of rebranding Fords with boatloads of chrome and fake wood have eroded the brand. Like Cadillac, I'm also pulling for Lincoln, but I have serious doubts it can pull out of current state.
Word is (from the inside) that there will be high performance Fusion as well.
I agree on all your previous points.
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Agree on all points.
The cts-v is an American M5 with better looks IMO. Most likely more reliable electronics and far lower cost of ownership once outside factory warranty. The headlights are defining feature. This car is hands down best American sedan ever manufactured. Seems like neither the customers nor dealer network are prepared to capitalize on it.
I don't know about that from a handful of friends that had caddys and family of bmw and other cars the BMW's esp M cars were very reliable. Not so much Caddys...
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People on bimmerpost's M2 board are talking about cross shopping the M2 and Focus RS, and the Golf R. Word is (from the inside) that there will be high performance Fusion as well.
I agree on all your previous points.
I don't know why people are cross shoping esp m2 and RS. The 2 cars are completely different , me personally of course would still go with M2 for rwd
Fuck it im gonna order a orange gt3 RS or maybe a cayman gt4 cause it's cheaper ;D
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I don't know why people are cross shoping esp m2 and RS. The 2 cars are completely different , me personally of course would still go with M2 for rwd
Fuck it im gonna order a orange gt3 RS or maybe a cayman gt4 cause it's cheaper ;D
what's funny is the M2 ain't even out yet ;D. DOP of November 15, 2015.
I think what people (and you) are wanting are "driver's cars". Cars that people can drive and enjoy. The super/hyper/mega cars, are now in a class, where it's more "I have more money than talent"...
Chris Harris did an article on that.
But, that CTS-V and ATS-V, though...
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I don't know about that from a handful of friends that had caddys and family of bmw and other cars the BMW's esp M cars were very reliable. Not so much Caddys...
Take my opinion with grain of salt.....I have prejudice against German luxury brands that I feel are over engineered for engineering sake and laden with technology that often has not been well thought out (bmw vanos Vs vtech or vvti for example). When a German car is running it is one of the nicest vehicles to be driving. However, the older I get the more I value low cost of ownership and headache free driving without being nickel and dimed by vehicle.
I am not totally comfortable taking a quality stand for Cadillac, however if/when something goes wrong I would much rather fix car from GM parts bin than any M or AMG series ride.
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Take my opinion with grain of salt.....I have prejudice against German luxury brands that I feel are over engineered for engineering sake and laden with technology that often has not been well thought out (bmw vanos Vs vtech or vvti for example). When a German car is running it is one of the nicest vehicles to be driving. However, the older I get the more I value low cost of ownership and headache free driving without being nickel and dimed by vehicle.
I am not totally comfortable taking a quality stand for Cadillac, however if/when something goes wrong I would much rather fix car from GM parts bin than any M or AMG series ride.
There is talk about the German "engineering myth". That the Germans have two types of "over engineering". One type is that they make the item/technology so complicated, to show off their prowess, and use the customers as guinea pigs, yet the items/technology are unreliable. And the other type is engineerig the item/technology to be simple and reliable. The Japanese do this by either waiting until the Germans get the bugs out it, and the. The Japanese refine it. And or use Toyota customers as guinea pigs before they debut it on Lexus models.
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There is talk about the German "engineering myth". That the Germans have two types of "over engineering". One type is that they make the item/technology so complicated, to show off their prowess, and use the customers as guinea pigs, yet the items/technology are unreliable. And the other type is engineerig the item/technology to be simple and reliable. The Japanese do this by either waiting until the Germans get the bugs out it, and the. The Japanese refine it. And or use Toyota customers as guinea pigs before they debut it on Lexus models.
All valid points. My feeling is that German engineers fall into the "show off" category a lot of the time. I cannot deny I love their cars, but you won't ever find one in my garage. A lot of the Italian and Euro stuff reminds me of a super hot PITA chick or a smokin' porn star......a lot of fun for a weekend but not wife material.
The Japanese philosophy of Kaizen (constant improvement) is exemplified by Toyota and Honda products. Unfortunately, the Asians do not typically build vehicles with much appeal to the consumers' emotional/passionate side. Never was a slogan more appropriate to a brand than Lexus' "Relentless pursuit of perfection".......the downside is the vehicles can feel a bit soulless and devoid of excitement. The F series of cars is a step in the right direction to appeal to enthusiasts.....even if it still is considered a couple of steps behind the M machines.
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Parker-San I just got a new high flowed titanium core turbo for the Audi. It's now pushing 400+hp and spins all four wheels in second gear, you'd love it.
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All valid points. My feeling is that German engineers fall into the "show off" category a lot of the time. I cannot deny I love their cars, but you won't ever find one in my garage. A lot of the Italian and Euro stuff reminds me of a super hot PITA chick or a smokin' porn star......a lot of fun for a weekend but not wife material.
The Japanese philosophy of Kaizen (constant improvement) is exemplified by Toyota and Honda products. Unfortunately, the Asians do not typically build vehicles with much appeal to the consumers' emotional/passionate side. Never was a slogan more appropriate to a brand than Lexus' "Relentless pursuit of perfection".......the downside is the vehicles can feel a bit soulless and devoid of excitement. The F series of cars is a step in the right direction to appeal to enthusiasts.....even if it still is considered a couple of steps behind the M machines.
Go drive an LFA or at least be a passenger of one ;D
Funny u mention "soul" cause German cars are viewed as soulless compared to Italians. Very mundane, purposeful machinary
Soul and the use of that word in cars is soooo overrated
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Take my opinion with grain of salt.....I have prejudice against German luxury brands that I feel are over engineered for engineering sake and laden with technology that often has not been well thought out (bmw vanos Vs vtech or vvti for example). When a German car is running it is one of the nicest vehicles to be driving. However, the older I get the more I value low cost of ownership and headache free driving without being nickel and dimed by vehicle.
I am not totally comfortable taking a quality stand for Cadillac, however if/when something goes wrong I would much rather fix car from GM parts bin than any M or AMG series ride.
With people with money it really doesn't matter, talking about real high rollers
But to average people reliability does matter and u are right about parts for euros compared to any other brands like american and japanese
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Go drive an LFA or at least be a passenger of one ;D
Funny u mention "soul" cause German cars are viewed as soulless compared to Italians. Very mundane, purposeful machinary
Soul and the use of that word in cars is soooo overrated
Agree about LFA but it is also a super low volume halo car. I agree about "soul" being overused and cornball.....but reality is I read it in every enthusiast publication. I kind of get what they are saying but also hear where you are coming from.
I'm a fan of Japanese engineering through and through.....always Japanese performance bikes and Toyota cars what I prefer. Beginning to think the Koreans are nipping at the Japanese heels....the new Hyundai Genesis very interesting. The Kia K900 might be luxury car used bargain of the decade in a few years....I don't think consumers will see Kia as a luxury nameplate which will result in accelerated depreciation for used examples.
I'm a big believer that the higher a price tag of a car, the less that should go wrong with it.....this isn't the case sadly. Being single father, I need to choose something that has reasonable running costs. I deeply admire Toyota and Honda engineering for its durability and price/quality ratio.....even if it isn't most exciting choice most of the time.
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Geezus, How many version of the new Ford Mustang are we gonna see?......shit, I hope they don't saturate the market with these....there is already The Galpin Rocket seen here in Black, and the Saleen is ready to Rock as well....and we haven't seen the Roush Version, the Shelby GT500 yet.....GOODNESS GRACIOUS
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Parker-San I just got a new high flowed titanium core turbo for the Audi. It's now pushing 400+hp and spins all four wheels in second gear, you'd love it.
Damn....
Zoom, by Lionel Ritchie!!!Geezus, How many version of the new Ford Mustang are we gonna see?......shit, I hope they don't saturate the market with these....there is already The Galpin Rocket seen here in Black, and the Saleen is ready to Rock as well....and we haven't seen the Roush Version, the Shelby GT500 yet.....GOODNESS GRACIOUS
Mustang is like the 911, so many versions, special editions...
Go drive an LFA or at least be a passenger of one ;D
Funny u mention "soul" cause German cars are viewed as soulless compared to Italians. Very mundane, purposeful machinary
Soul and the use of that word in cars is soooo overrated
Mercedes V8s seem to capture that raucous American V8 vibe.
Even the new 4.0 Turbo V8 sounds like a beast. It's odd how Mercedes-AMG can make their turbo cars sound good, BMW and Audi have a harder time with it.
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Damn....
Zoom, by Lionel Ritchie!!!Mustang is like the 911, so many versions, special editions...
Mercedes V8s seem to capture that raucous American V8 vibe.
Even the new 4.0 Turbo V8 sounds like a beast. It's odd how Mercedes-AMG can make their turbo cars sound good, BMW and Audi have a harder time with it.
Shelby will still Hold their value more than any other editions outthere
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Shelby will still Hold their value more than any other editions outthere
If I was in the market for a special edition mustang the Shelby is the only one I'll consider. Gt350
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Geezus, How many version of the new Ford Mustang are we gonna see?......shit, I hope they don't saturate the market with these....there is already The Galpin Rocket seen here in Black, and the Saleen is ready to Rock as well....and we haven't seen the Roush Version, the Shelby GT500 yet.....GOODNESS GRACIOUS
I think they replaced that this year with the Shelby GT350
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/features/#page=Feature4
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Autoblog April 9, 2015
Mark Reuss On fixing the Malibu:
"We can't miss. We can't have those kinds of misses [like the previous generation] on our cars and crossovers and trucks. We can't do that. If we do that, we give a reason for someone to go buy something else. It's that simple.
"On a car like the Malibu we have a chance to really fix all of that, which we have, and then lead. Then you've got a real opportunity there. So that's what we've really been focused on here – to fix those things."
He later added:
"We need that car here to transform Chevrolet desperately because it's the heart of the market. And when you think of Chevrolet, people will come back and think about what we did with the [new] Malibu and the Cruze... It's hugely important to us."
[Snip]
The launch of the 2016 Malibu is critical for GM. The old Malibu was a huge flop (7th place). My impressions of the the new car are that it's an improvement, but not good enough to crack top four. Meaning the Camry, Accord, Altima, and Fusion will still remain on top.
The Malibu more than any car shows just how far GM has fallen.
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I think it's difficult for most people to remember how dominant GM was for over sixty years. Here's a comparison to the top 10 sales in 1980 to 2015. GM went from 7 in the top ten to 1.
1980
1. Chevrolet Citation 374,706
2. Chevrolet Chevette 373,988
3. Ford Fairmont 285,272
4. Chevrolet Malibu 267,732
5. Chevy Impala/Caprice 261,819
6. Toyota Corolla 257,315
7. Ford Mustang 225,290
8. Oldsmobile Cutlass 210,784
9. Buick Regal 199,207
10.Volkswagen Rabbit 177,118
2015 (March)
#1 Ford F-Series 67,706
#2 Chevrolet Silverado 45,193
#3 Ram P/U 41,595
#4 Toyota Camry 40,800
#5 Toyota Corolla 35,532
#6 Nissan Altima 31,993
#7 Ford Fusion 29,044
#8 Hyundai Elantra 28,794
#9 Honda CR-V 27,618
#10 Nissan Rogue 27,418