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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Thong Maniac on April 26, 2015, 07:41:16 AM
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With a few recent examples of liver cancer in select amatuer bodybuilders, what drugs are causing this?
I really only use designers with my TRT like dmz 2.0 once or twice a year but im second guessing this now.
My values are elevated on these but when im clean my AlT and ASt are low normal.
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You play... you eventually pay.
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With a few recent examples of liver cancer in select amatuer bodybuilders, what drugs are causing this?
I really only use designers with my TRT like dmz 2.0 once or twice a year but im second guessing this now.
My values are elevated on these but when im clean my AlT and ASt are low normal.
Primary liver cancer is not common, but not uncommon in patients with chronic liver disease (cirrhosis).
In heathy patients it is incredibly rare.
In pro BBers it is almost exclusively from malignant degeneration of a hepatocellular adenoma (a potentially malignant liver mass).
In men on anabolics, adenomas are very common. PJ Braun has one that ruptured a few years ago, which he lied and said was a hemangioma (congenital liver mass, that almost never ruptures).
Men who abuse anabolics, should get an ultrasound done to look for liver lesions.
PJ needs to see a hepatobiliary surgeon, as I suggested to him and get a liver mri. But he prefers to live in denial and abuse aas. He is playing a very dangerous game
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Don't go mad on the orals lads
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You play... you eventually pay.
Right but what drugs are causig these lesions
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Right but what drugs are causig these lesions
I think it's extended heavy abuse, with a big edge toward heavy oral abuse that catches up with people. I doubt which type makes a huge difference. Back when Dianabol was the huge drug, guys would come down with it, and disappear for a while. Same with Anadrol, and now Superdrol. Even Equipoise was shown to troublesome in liver function regard in a study.
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Right but what drugs are causig these lesions
Estrogen which often spikes while on and off steroids.
Sex hormones and risk of liver tumor.
Giannitrapani L1, Soresi M, La Spada E, Cervello M, D'Alessandro N, Montalto G.
Author information
Abstract
The liver is morphologically and functionally modulated by sex hormones. Long-term use of oral contraceptives (OCs) and anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs) can induce both benign (hemangioma, adenoma, and focal nodular hyperplasia [FNH]) and malignant (hepatocellular carcinoma [HCC]) hepatocellular tumors. Hepatic adenomas (HAs) are rare, benign neoplasms usually occurring in young women, the development and the complications of which have been related to the strength of OCs and the duration of their use. HA incidence has fallen since the introduction of pills containing smaller amounts of estrogens. FNH is a benign lesion, most commonly seen in young women, which is thought to represent a local hyperplastic response of hepatocytes to a vascular abnormality. Because of the female predominance and the young age at onset, a role of female hormones has been suggested. Furthermore, a large proportion of women with FNH (50-75%) are OC users. Liver hemangiomas (LHs) are the most common benign liver tumors and are seen more commonly in young adult females. The female predilection and clinical observations of LH growth under conditions of estrogenic exposure suggest a possible role for estrogen in the pathogenesis of LHs. HCC has become one of the most widespread tumors in the world in recent years, representing the sixth leading cancer and the third most common cause of death from cancer. Apart from liver cirrhosis, numerous other factors responsible for its onset have been proposed: hepatitis infections from virus B (HBV) and C (HCV), alcohol, smoking, and aflatoxin. However, regardless of etiology, chronic liver diseases progress at unequal rates in the two sexes, with the major sequelae, such as cirrhosis and HCC, being more frequent in men than in women. These epidemiological data have prompted researchers to investigate the relationship between sex hormones and liver tumors. The human liver expresses estrogen and androgen receptors and experimentally both androgens and estrogens have been implicated in stimulating hepatocyte proliferation and may act as liver tumor inducers or promoters.
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Primary liver cancer is not common, but not uncommon in patients with chronic liver disease (cirrhosis).
In heathy patients it is incredibly rare.
In pro BBers it is almost exclusively from malignant degeneration of a hepatocellular adenoma (a potentially malignant liver mass).
In men on anabolics, adenomas are very common. PJ Braun has one that ruptured a few years ago, which he lied and said was a hemangioma (congenital liver mass, that almost never ruptures).
Men who abuse anabolics, should get an ultrasound done to look for liver lesions.
PJ needs to see a hepatobiliary surgeon, as I suggested to him and get a liver mri. But he prefers to live in denial and abuse aas. He is playing a very dangerous game
I agree in part but I am not sure where you are getting your info when you state that adenomas of the liver are common among steroids users? Adenomas of the liver are rare but are common on other areas of the body. They can be of lipid origin or cancer. They can also be lipid poor and have a higher than normal density (lipid poor) which can lead one to believe they are cancerous. In these cases either a biopsy or a CT scan done with wash out phase can better determine the situation. If the density is more than 10 HU the wash out should be calculated. Most of the time if it is smaller than 3 cm the Dr will elect to watch it and do a CT scan every 3 to 6 months.
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I agree in part but I am not sure where you are getting your info when you state that adenomas of the liver are common among steroids users? Adenomas of the liver are rare but are common on other areas of the body. They can be of lipid origin or cancer. They can also be lipid poor and have a higher than normal density (lipid poor) which can lead one to believe they are cancerous. In these cases either a biopsy or a CT scan done with wash out phase can better determine the situation. If the density is more than 10 HU the wash out should be calculated. Most of the time if it is smaller than 3 cm the Dr will elect to watch it and do a CT scan every 3 to 6 months.
Hepatocellular adenoma is completely different from adrenal adenoma
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With a few recent examples of liver cancer in select amatuer bodybuilders, what drugs are causing this?
I really only use designers with my TRT like dmz 2.0 once or twice a year but im second guessing this now.
My values are elevated on these but when im clean my AlT and ASt are low normal.
I'm like you, natural but run a mild designer cycle every few years when I just want that extra bit. Doubt it is that bad an the liver. Regular extended use of orals is gonna be bad. Most likely even injectibles so while they are safer don't let people tell you they are risk free. I rarely drink so that is big thing too. I have a friend who is under 40 and has liver cancer from abusing alcohol. Will need a transplant to live :(
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I'm like you, natural but run a mild designer cycle every few years when I just want that extra bit. Doubt it is that bad an the liver. Regular extended use of orals is gonna be bad. Most likely even injectibles so while they are safer don't let people tell you they are risk free. I rarely drink so that is big thing too. I have a friend who is under 40 and has liver cancer from abusing alcohol. Will need a transplant to live :(
Damn what kind of alcohol abuse was he doing? Multiple beers per night?
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Benign liver adenomas do not get cancerous often, not in people using roids either..
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Damn what kind of alcohol abuse was he doing? Multiple beers per night?
x2 i wanna know how many beers
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Benign liver adenomas do not get cancerous often, not in people using roids either..
This is true, malignant degeneration of adenoma is not common.
BUT is is the most common cause of liver cancer is male steroid abusers who do not have liver disease
All comers, HEP C would be the most common cause in BBers who are also probably infected from sharing needles.
How common is AIDS in the BB world?
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Damn what kind of alcohol abuse was he doing? Multiple beers per night?
I think this. Just hardcore alcoholic loved to party. We are not super close more of an acquaintance for me but still it's like damn liver cancer at 35 :-\
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I think this. Just hardcore alcoholic loved to party. We are not super close more of an acquaintance for me but still it's like damn liver cancer at 35 :-\
I knew a guy who died from cirrosis this year, 38 years old, rumored to drink alone at nights quite often.
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I think this. Just hardcore alcoholic loved to party. We are not super close more of an acquaintance for me but still it's like damn liver cancer at 35 :-\
Man crazy, the beer scene is huge where i live. Craft beers, brewerys all over the place. They front like its semi healthy and im sure the ingredients used are better but damn alcohol is alcohol. Crazy how wrapped up people get with it. My friends still carry on saying how "shit faced" they got and yada yada and i cringe. I wanna be like "dude, u do realize i can go to the store and buy a beer and its no big deal...im 30, not 19 anymore". The way these people carry on, its like they are drinking some illegal cocktail thats super rare and hard to find
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Man crazy, the beer scene is huge where i live. Craft beers, brewerys all over the place. They front like its semi healthy and im sure the ingredients used are better but damn alcohol is alcohol. Crazy how wrapped up people get with it. My friends still carry on saying how "shit faced" they got and yada yada and i cringe. I wanna be like "dude, u do realize i can go to the store and buy a beer and its no big deal...im 30, not 19 anymore". The way these people carry on, its like they are drinking some illegal cocktail thats super rare and hard to find
I have a couple of friends like that. Never understood why they talk about getting wasted like it was some kind of achievement. ??? lol
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Liver cancer due to PED usage has never been documented. Not once.
Up the dose.
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Hepatocellular adenoma is completely different from adrenal adenoma
Of course they are but they are very rare and are not caused by anabolic steroids and they rarely develop into cancer.
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Liver cancer due to PED usage has never been documented. Not once.
Up the dose.
Beat me to it.
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Liver cancer due to PED usage has never been documented. Not once.
Up the dose.
Agreed, it's skinny fat little twinks that spread the rumor that PEDs are bad. Take what you want and live like the man you could never be as a natural.
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Liver cancer due to PED usage has never been documented. Not once.
Up the dose.
These two sort of fit -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18178686 .
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8726841 .
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Beat me to it.
Wrong again.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2997656/
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These two sort of fit -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18178686 .
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8726841 .
Bingo.
But the users will deny deny deny
That's ok, they put food on the table ;D
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Wrong again.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2997656/
Did you even read that? Only 4.2% of these very rare tumors become malignant. Plus that's still not proof of causation.
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I've got a liver disease and I've never ran orals or drunk alcohol. I take medicine so it doesn't progress to liver cancer. The medicine is fucking brutal. Please take care of your liver.
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I've got a liver disease and I've never ran orals or drunk alcohol. I take medicine so it doesn't progress to liver cancer. The medicine is fucking brutal. Please take care of your liver.
heme-iron from meat youv been eating since you wer a kid has halted your liver recovery
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I've got a liver disease and I've never ran orals or drunk alcohol. I take medicine so it doesn't progress to liver cancer. The medicine is fucking brutal. Please take care of your liver.
Would you mind sharing with us what you take?
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heme-iron from meat youv been eating since you wer a kid has halted your liver recovery
Negative
Would you mind sharing with us what you take?
I've did 2 cycles in my life. I did one 11 years ago and another 3 years ago. First cycle was just test e for 12 weeks hcg/nolva used. Second cycle was test/tren/mast mix for 10-12 weeks with adex throughout. From bloodwork as a infant I found out my liver was damaged from birth. The doctor didn't try to treat it then ::) I only found out this 2 years ago when I found my records from my now deceased doctor warehouse. Followed it up with bloodwork with showed extremely high alt/ast. I've been on medication for almost a year and most likely will remain on medication unless there's a cure.
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Negative
I've did 2 cycles in my life. I did one 11 years ago and another 3 years ago. First cycle was just test e for 12 weeks hcg/nolva used. Second cycle was test/tren/mast mix for 10-12 weeks with adex throughout. From bloodwork as a infant I found out my liver was damaged from birth. The doctor didn't try to treat it then ::) I only found out this 2 years ago when I found my records from my now deceased doctor warehouse. Followed it up with bloodwork with showed extremely high alt/ast. I've been on medication for almost a year and most likely will remain on medication unless there's a cure.
Thanks but I meant what do you take for your liver.
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Did you even read that? Only 4.2% of these very rare tumors become malignant. Plus that's still not proof of causation.
It's uncommon. As I said.
5% is not rare.
Hepatic Adenomas are common in steroid users. Most shrink of disappear, in my experience, when the abuse stops. Those that hemorrhage were removed for a time and now are more commonly embolized (ie could never become malignant because they are dead)
When I see an adult man (non-cirrhosis) with a liver mass (or masses), my first question is what stack he is on.
Most are scared enough to stop, some fools continue to abuse. I couldn't tell you what happens to them, because they never come back.
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Thanks but I meant what do you take for your liver.
Probably interferon but we shall see what he says.
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Negative
I've did 2 cycles in my life. I did one 11 years ago and another 3 years ago. First cycle was just test e for 12 weeks hcg/nolva used. Second cycle was test/tren/mast mix for 10-12 weeks with adex throughout. From bloodwork as a infant I found out my liver was damaged from birth. The doctor didn't try to treat it then ::) I only found out this 2 years ago when I found my records from my now deceased doctor warehouse. Followed it up with bloodwork with showed extremely high alt/ast. I've been on medication for almost a year and most likely will remain on medication unless there's a cure.
you eat meat dude right
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Do u get sick lil j
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Beat me to it.
Seriously considering it!
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It's uncommon. As I said.
5% is not rare.
Hepatic Adenomas are common in steroid users. Most shrink of disappear, in my experience, when the abuse stops. Those that hemorrhage were removed for a time and now are more commonly embolized (ie could never become malignant because they are dead)
When I see an adult man (non-cirrhosis) with a liver mass (or masses), my first question is what stack he is on.
Most are scared enough to stop, some fools continue to abuse. I couldn't tell you what happens to them, because they never come back.
Only 4.2% of hepatic adenomas become malignant according to this article out of 1600 people and there was no mention of anyone being a steroid user. Again, HA's are rare and very few (4.2%) turn malignant.
Your statement that "Hepatic Adenomas are common in steroid users" is nothing more then a generalized statement with no proof. How common are they in your opinion and are there any studies to back this up? If an adult male "sees you" I have no idea what you mean by that, and he has a mass and he doesn't use AS then what steps do you take to find out what the cause is? I'm betting you don't since there is no way to know and will not change the course of action for treatment.
If the person is using steroids the Dr will automatically say it was caused by steroids and it will get charted and thrown in with the statistics that you will read about in one of these worthless studies. They reality is that there is no way to know what caused "it" as in mass which could be many different things even a cyst.
I've been around a long time and I have only seen one person who was an anabolic user who had a liver mass and it was a liver cyst and he was an extreme abuser of pain meds too. His Dr said there was no way of knowing what caused it. Of course this is not an HA but I am just giving this as an example. If one Dr says that he has seen "MANY" cases of hepatic adenomas in steroid users he is lying. I find it hard to believe that one DR would see hundreds of steroids users in his time in practice let alone many with HA.
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If the person is using steroids the Dr will automatically say it was caused by steroids
Bingo! I think he gets it!
When I see a Liver mass in adult male not cirrhotic, my first question; what's your stack?
Hey man, I'm not disagreeing with you: I love your advice. Just ignore what I said.
Means more business for me!
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Bingo! I think he gets it!
When I see a Liver mass in adult male not cirrhotic, my first question; what's your stack?
Hey man, I'm not disagreeing with you: I love your advice. Just ignore what I said.
Means more business for me!
I would pass on your medical advises. ;)
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Stacking cell-tech hardcore with gakic is very dangerous. ::)
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Let's get real: steroids are not dangerous. Neither is HGH.
Diuretics and insulin are the killers....