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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Coach is Back! on April 29, 2015, 02:10:19 PM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/gdp-report-to-show-stumbling-start-for-us-economy/2015/04/29/11dc42c6-ee3e-11e4-8050-839e9234b303_story.html
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It's all Bush's fault.
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Energy job demand fell greatly with the decline in oil prices.
http://www.newsweek.com/us-job-growth-drops-clouds-fed-rate-hike-319466 (http://www.newsweek.com/us-job-growth-drops-clouds-fed-rate-hike-319466)
I wonder how many obamabots (who wrongly give him so much credit for this lackluster recovery, for oil suddenly dropping 6 years into his presidency, and for the stock market) realize how abnormal it is for the US Federal Reserve to keep interest rates at zero for over 6 years?
IF we have another market meltdown or ME conflict or something and the markets fall hard and / or oil shoots up before the next presidential term begins, is it going to be Bush's fault? ;D
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It has been 6 1/2 years since the clownintheovaloffice was elected and then re-elected 2 1/2 years ago and the economy still sucks. All that spending, running up debt like no other president before him, and the USA still has a weak economy which at the mention of an interest hike by the fed will cause the stock market to crash. A stock market that continues to be propped by the never ending money printing by the fed, millions are still on welfare, minial part-time jobs are now the norm, many more can't find jobs because they are going to illegal aliens who will do the same job for less than the minimum wage (they can afford to do that since 20 of them pack themselves in the same house) and small business growth restrained by over legislation and forced upon expenses like crapcare.
And the libtards continue to blame the weather!!! HEHEHEHEHE!!
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Oh no things are great....look at Baltimore...those people all rioted because they have so much leisure time from their 7 figure Obama jobs.
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Oh no things are great....look at Baltimore...those people all rioted because they have so much leisure time from their 7 figure Obama jobs.
let's be real the trash that was rioting has nothing to do with the economy,you could have 0 unemployment and the same trash would still be rioting
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The economy under the clownintheovaloffice is proof that libtard economic ideology doesn't work and will never work.
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Most of them would have jobs. If we built anything here those people would have jobs. Thats what they used to do in that area. But you get people railing against the military industrial complex, you get people proping up unions....against coal, against steel..guess what.... All those industries put low or medium skilled people to work.
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let's be real the trash that was rioting has nothing to do with the economy,you could have 0 unemployment and the same trash would still be rioting
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Interesting how the "weather" never affected the economy to this extent during the Reagan and Clinton presidency.
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgmn0X-PKADGT6ihkUiYHCgq5rqJpW_IE2z2Vz_bTcVLFIerIA)
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.02% Since Jan.
it's Bush's fault
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Interesting how the "weather" never affected the economy to this extent during the Reagan and Clinton presidency.
Climate change. If only we'd get away from those darned fossil fuels. :'(
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The economy under the clownintheovaloffice is proof that libtard economic ideology doesn't work and will never work.
The economy has little to do with Obama's policies, just like the crash in '08 had little to do with Bush (see Glass Steagal & Bill Clinton).
There's a lot of other things to blame Obama for, the economy isn't one of them.
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The economy has little to do with Obama's policies, just like the crash in '08 had little to do with Bush (see Glass Steagal & Bill Clinton).
There's a lot of other things to blame Obama for, the economy isn't one of them.
True..
I made almost 50% off my investments in the last 24 months.. if we're blaming Obama for the economy, probably need to give him credit for that
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Climate change. If only we'd get away from those darned fossil fuels. :'(
They are a stupid and short sighted energy source, we have a massive fusion reactor in the sky that does everything for us. Elon Musk may have changed the world today actually.
Why do you guys love fossil fuels so much? wouldn't replacing them with a cleaner, renewable source make sense? I honestly don't understand the love for oil and gas. Yes they catapulted humans ahead, changed the world, however, it's not a good long term solution, innovation is needed.
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For growth to continue, you need higher wages in the US. You need the banks loaning out money again. Last year they could take cheap Fed money, put it into the markets and fuck the small business man.
Too many people are working 2-3 jobs on low wages now, you need money to be turning over, not held onto.
Middle class is stagnant to shrinking.
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They are a stupid and short sighted energy source, we have a massive fusion reactor in the sky that does everything for us. Elon Musk may have changed the world today actually.
Why do you guys love fossil fuels so much? wouldn't replacing them with a cleaner, renewable source make sense? I honestly don't understand the love for oil and gas. Yes they catapulted humans ahead, changed the world, however, it's not a good long term solution, innovation is needed.
Solyndra really worked well, didn't it?
I personally like fossil fuels because I've made lots of money investing in fossil fuels, companies that drill, refine, and market them, and also from being paid royalties by those evil oil companies on fossil fuels pulled out from under the ground on properties owned by me and by my family.
Fossil fuels have been doing a pretty good job for the last hundred years or so. When something that works better - more affordable, reliable, and efficient on a large scale - we'll see today's "oil" companies making billions on whatever can replace it.
What we don't need is big govt screwing the taxpayers by giving gifts to their buddies for this or that pipe dream that isn't viable. Nor do we need unrealistic regulations imposed on providers of current sources of energy or other attempts to sabotage such companies.
I have mixed feelings about Musk. I'm all about dreaming big and following your dreams with hard and smart work, but he sometimes comes across as delusional or carnival barker-ish. Look at Tesla's sales compared even to a dog like GM, for example. I can't help but wonder if we won't eventually see Musk on an episode of "American Greed" someday.
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I have mixed feelings about Musk. I'm all about dreaming big and following your dreams with hard and smart work, but he sometimes comes across as delusional or carnival barker-ish. Look at Tesla's sales compared even to a dog like GM, for example. I can't help but wonder if we won't eventually see Musk on an episode of "American Greed" someday.
Considering that (a) Tesla cars start at $70,000 and GM cars start at about $12,000 and (b) Tesla currently has a car that targets a single market and GM has a wide array of models, then comparing the two is rather stupid. It's like comparing TGI Friday and Smith & Wollensky and claiming TGIF comes out on top because they have mozarella sticks.
So, how about if we compare Tesla against the models it's actually up against? According to Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2014/01/16/tesla-sales-blow-past-competitors-but-with-success-comes-scrutiny/), in 2013, the Mercedes S-Class sold ~13,000 units, the BMW 7-series and Lexus LS sold another 10,000 each, while the Audi A8 and the Porsche Panamera moved just about 6,000 units each. Tesla, on the other hand, delivered just over 22,000 units - almost half as many as the other five brands combined. Things got even better in 2014.
Is Elon Musk eccentric? No doubt. Are his ideas a bit far fetched? Some are, but the simple fact is this: more than once he has demonstrated that he can deliver. When he started Tesla, the notion that you could have an electric car that was practical and had upwards of 200 miles of range was considered the stuff of fiction. The notion that the car would receive accolades for handling and build quality wasn't even fiction. Everybody said that he would fail. They argued that even if the world was ready for an electric car, building a car company from scratch was nigh impossible and they bet against him. Guess who came out on top?
And this isn't just a "one hit wonder." People laughed at the concept of SpaceX and argued endlessly about how it would fail. And yet, today the company routinely flies missions to space and resupplies the ISS using the Dragon capsule. And it has effectively demonstrated a reusable rocket with vertical-landing capability on a robotically piloted floating platform.
So what the hell are we talking about? The guy is doing some amazing shit and has single-handedly advanced technology by at least a decade, which is no small feat.
The stuff about Mars I can take or leave (although I don't think he's wrong that we need to colonize other worlds in our solar system; I just don't think we need to start yesterday, as he does). The stuff about solar power, I'm 100% in favor of, not because I have any fundamental problem with oil, but because I think that solar technology, combined with improved battery chemistries and more efficient motors, electronics and electrical devices together, have become a viable proposition and will only get better from here.
I agree with you that the government shouldn't be "giving gifts" to anyone or regulating markets to death.
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Solyndra really worked well, didn't it?
I personally like fossil fuels because I've made lots of money investing in fossil fuels, companies that drill, refine, and market them, and also from being paid royalties by those evil oil companies on fossil fuels pulled out from under the ground on properties owned by me and by my family.
Fossil fuels have been doing a pretty good job for the last hundred years or so. When something that works better - more affordable, reliable, and efficient on a large scale - we'll see today's "oil" companies making billions on whatever can replace it.
What we don't need is big govt screwing the taxpayers by giving gifts to their buddies for this or that pipe dream that isn't viable. Nor do we need unrealistic regulations imposed on providers of current sources of energy or other attempts to sabotage such companies.
I have mixed feelings about Musk. I'm all about dreaming big and following your dreams with hard and smart work, but he sometimes comes across as delusional or carnival barker-ish. Look at Tesla's sales compared even to a dog like GM, for example. I can't help but wonder if we won't eventually see Musk on an episode of "American Greed" someday.
Your analogy is a false one, it's like saying clothing isn't good because old navy went under. The tech is ready for transition now.Musk just invented the power wall, it will power homes without the need for dirty energy, it costs 3500 and can store weeks worth of energy.
He has literally delivered on everything he said he would.
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it's like saying clothing isn't good because old navy went under.
the Navy is Old because obama refuses to give our armed forces enough $ to keep up with the times.
Well, except for all those charts showing obama actually spent MORE on military than Bush ever did :)
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Solyndra really worked well, didn't it?
I personally like fossil fuels because I've made lots of money investing in fossil fuels, companies that drill, refine, and market them, and also from being paid royalties by those evil oil companies on fossil fuels pulled out from under the ground on properties owned by me and by my family.
Fossil fuels have been doing a pretty good job for the last hundred years or so. When something that works better - more affordable, reliable, and efficient on a large scale - we'll see today's "oil" companies making billions on whatever can replace it.
What we don't need is big govt screwing the taxpayers by giving gifts to their buddies for this or that pipe dream that isn't viable. Nor do we need unrealistic regulations imposed on providers of current sources of energy or other attempts to sabotage such companies.
I have mixed feelings about Musk. I'm all about dreaming big and following your dreams with hard and smart work, but he sometimes comes across as delusional or carnival barker-ish. Look at Tesla's sales compared even to a dog like GM, for example. I can't help but wonder if we won't eventually see Musk on an episode of "American Greed" someday.
The irony is on bust here, do you not realize the gifts the oil companies get? the subsidies? the tax breaks etc.. so while solyndra was a bad investment (TESLA was a very good one) they pale in comparison to the gifts given to the oil and gas industry.
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Calm down, Elon Musk.
GM is a ~ $57 billion market cap company. Their annual revenues are over $150 billion. They're lucky to earn a couple of bucks per share per year. Their earnings are in a significant decline over the past 3 years (-25%), their sales growth and margins are lower than industry averages. I am short GM stock.
Tesla is a ~ $27 billion market cap company. Their annual revenues are barely $3 billion. They earn no money.
Musk the carny barker:
"If you take this year's revenue, around $6 billion or thereabouts, and if we are able to maintain a 30% growth rate for 10 years, add to your 10% profitability number, and have a 20 P/E, our market cap would basically be the same as Apple's is today. That's going to require a bit of -- on the order of $700 billion -- obviously, getting there will requires some significant CapEx, but I am hopeful that we can do this without any significant dilution to the company, maybe minor dilution but nothing serious." ::)
I'm sure you're pretty good at math. They sell a limited number of cars to a limited market. They are no longer as "cool" as they were. Musk will have to get Obama to start forcing people and companies to start buying more of them for me to own the stock for longer than a few hours once in a while and not be short the stock.
I'm not holding my breath on Mars or a hyperloop. If he succeeds, great. But he'll probably be doing it without any of the few million I have in the bank or the 100 million or so in assets I manage.
I buy / drive Lexus and Toyota.
Everything else is pretty much bullshit as far as I'm concerned.
Considering that (a) Tesla cars start at $70,000 and GM cars start at about $12,000 and (b) Tesla currently has a car that targets a single market and GM has a wide array of models, then comparing the two is rather stupid. It's like comparing TGI Friday and Smith & Wollensky and claiming TGIF comes out on top because they have mozarella sticks.
So, how about if we compare Tesla against the models it's actually up against? According to Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2014/01/16/tesla-sales-blow-past-competitors-but-with-success-comes-scrutiny/), in 2013, the Mercedes S-Class sold ~13,000 units, the BMW 7-series and Lexus LS sold another 10,000 each, while the Audi A8 and the Porsche Panamera moved just about 6,000 units each. Tesla, on the other hand, delivered just over 22,000 units - almost half as many as the other five brands combined. Things got even better in 2014.
Is Elon Musk eccentric? No doubt. Are his ideas a bit far fetched? Some are, but the simple fact is this: more than once he has demonstrated that he can deliver. When he started Tesla, the notion that you could have an electric car that was practical and had upwards of 200 miles of range was considered the stuff of fiction. The notion that the car would receive accolades for handling and build quality wasn't even fiction. Everybody said that he would fail. They argued that even if the world was ready for an electric car, building a car company from scratch was nigh impossible and they bet against him. Guess who came out on top?
And this isn't just a "one hit wonder." People laughed at the concept of SpaceX and argued endlessly about how it would fail. And yet, today the company routinely flies missions to space and resupplies the ISS using the Dragon capsule. And it has effectively demonstrated a reusable rocket with vertical-landing capability on a robotically piloted floating platform.
So what the hell are we talking about? The guy is doing some amazing shit and has single-handedly advanced technology by at least a decade, which is no small feat.
The stuff about Mars I can take or leave (although I don't think he's wrong that we need to colonize other worlds in our solar system; I just don't think we need to start yesterday, as he does). The stuff about solar power, I'm 100% in favor of, not because I have any fundamental problem with oil, but because I think that solar technology, combined with improved battery chemistries and more efficient motors, electronics and electrical devices together, have become a viable proposition and will only get better from here.
I agree with you that the government shouldn't be "giving gifts" to anyone or regulating markets to death.
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Your analogy is a false one, it's like saying clothing isn't good because old navy went under. The tech is ready for transition now.Musk just invented the power wall, it will power homes without the need for dirty energy, it costs 3500 and can store weeks worth of energy.
He has literally delivered on everything he said he would.
Go ahead and put all of your money in TSLA. Maybe someday they'll have an actual PE ratio.
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The irony is on bust here, do you not realize the gifts the oil companies get? the subsidies? the tax breaks etc.. so while solyndra was a bad investment (TESLA was a very good one) they pale in comparison to the gifts given to the oil and gas industry.
They get no "gifts". They get to keep more of their own money by taking advantage of tax breaks.
I can tell you as someone who has worked in asset management for over a decade and has been investing for over 2 decades that TSLA is / was a riskier than average investment that is way overpriced. And just about everyone else in the know agrees with me. If you must, trade it, don't own it. Or own it VERY lightly.
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They get no "gifts". They get to keep more of their own money by taking advantage of tax breaks.
I can tell you as someone who has worked in asset management for over a decade and has been investing for over 2 decades that TSLA is / was a riskier than average investment that is way overpriced. And just about everyone else in the know agrees with me. If you must, trade it, don't own it. Or own it VERY lightly.
I believe you, you would have a better handle on it then me if that's your field. I think TSLA's powerwall will be a huge benefit and I would bet on Elon Musk. You are also comparing a new company, with new tech to an old established company. I wonder if you look at the first initial years of GM how they would compare?
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I believe you, you would have a better handle on it then me if that's your field. I think TSLA's powerwall will be a huge benefit and I would bet on Elon Musk. You are also comparing a new company, with new tech to an old established company. I wonder if you look at the first initial years of GM how they would compare?
The thing is the market cap on TSLA has gotten FAR ahead of itself - Musk even said so himself.
Market cap = (number of shares) x (stock price per share)
I did buy a little TSLA a couple of years ago when it got a little over $100 and Musk disclosed that he personally had pretty much all of his money in TSLA. That's always a plus when a CEO puts his money where his mouth is. But once it got above $180, I just couldn't justify holding it anymore. When it got past $200, and on to $250 and $275, I felt compelled to incrementally take small bets against it.
Another good thing is that their revenue growth is very high - currently ~ 150%. But revenues overall are still relatively low, and far, far too low for the company to currently be worth nearly $30 billion. If they were suddenly a $10 stock with the same fundamentals, I'd buy tens of thousands of dollars worth. If they were between $20-30, I'd still buy quite a bit. But as long as they are in triple digits with current fundamentals, I won't buy and hold them for any length of time.
They could certainly continue to go up, just as Amazon and Netflix have gone up very high on little or no earnings and even pretty modest revenue in the case of NFLX. But both AMZN and NFLX are pretty unique within their industries, and they aren't limited to any sort of niche market - you don't need tens of thousands of dollars or more to buy something off Amazon or watch movies on Netflix. But I did recently sell what little I had left of both of those.
I think they're all 3 frothy these days, and TSLA is quite "bubble-ish" IMO. Markets in the short term are nowhere near 100% efficient, and I believe that TSLA is a perfect example. But over the mid to long term, markets do seem to pretty much always correct inefficiencies pretty well overall.
I do invest a few bucks in other alt energy companies - First Solar, Ballard Power, Daqo, etc.
This is from my journal, written on 2/25/14 on a rare TSLA day trade when it got an analyst upgrade just before the open:
It opened higher at $230 and kept going up on high volume. I grabbed 100 shares five minutes after the open at 8:35am for right at $235 at the market. I held on until about 10am when the volume started to dry up a bit and sold at the market again at just under $250.
Made nearly $1500 there. Those don't come around too often these days.
I also have puts on it.
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How can the economy slow down Coach? Does that mean is has been getting increasingly better for the last years?
You have said numerous times that Obama has fucked up the economy so this is a Little confusing.
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Numbers don't lie. If the economy was doing so great, the Fed wouldn't still have interest rates at zero.
As to who is to blame for what, US presidents and governments don't have the kind of control over the economy, markets, employment, the prices of commodities, etc that many seem to think they do. Aside from increasing or decreasing taxes and regs, these things are largely out of government control.
Re Tesla, here's Jim Chanos's opinion:
http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/05/chanos-doesnt-like-weak-minds-or-tesla-motors-tsla/ (http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/05/chanos-doesnt-like-weak-minds-or-tesla-motors-tsla/)