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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 04:38:27 AM

Title: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 04:38:27 AM
Age: 41 y.o. natural
Years of training: 23 (but not during 2014)
Period of training: 5 months (DEC 2014/ MAY 2015)

Initial weigh: 211.4 lbs
Fat: 29.5%

Weight after 5 months: 204.4 lbs
Fat: 26.5%

If I'm not mistaken this means I lost a total of 7.0 lbs and 8.21 lbs of fat.

Is the difference of 1.21 lbs muscle?

Two measurements

Waist from 44.1 (112 cm) to 40.9 (104 cm)
Arms from 15.3 (39 cm) to 15.7 (40 cm)

Edt: diet is 800 to 900 Kcals, more or less 60% of proteins
---

After telling me that it's pathetic, that I'm an old fart etc etc (all the GB standard treatment)
What do you think of these results? Average? Very poor? Decent?
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: SuperTed on May 12, 2015, 04:43:23 AM
How did you measure your bodyfat?

Pics make it easier to judge progress than stats imo.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 04:51:50 AM
How did you measure your bodyfat?

Pics make it easier to judge progress than stats imo.

I have pics but without Tbombz's bunny suits and also I'm not so mad to post a pic on GB  ;D (the lord of photoshop is watching  ;D
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: thegamechanger on May 12, 2015, 04:56:01 AM
thats very low on the calories
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: HonestBob on May 12, 2015, 04:59:31 AM
No trolling, but if these results are real then they are beyond awful.

Assuming you know how to eat and train (your calorie intake??!) go and get a full androgen and thyroid panel.

Better than that have a stool analysis from Doctor's Data to see if there's a gut issue, which with results like that is quite likely (that will then be knocking out your hormones).
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Grape Ape on May 12, 2015, 05:04:38 AM
5 months and only a 3% decrease off 29%?

Why are you holding so much fat?
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 05:05:30 AM
No trolling, but if these results are real then they are beyond awful.

Assuming you know how to eat and train (your calorie intake??!) go and get a full androgen and thyroid panel.

Better than that have a stool analysis from Doctor's Data to see if there's a gut issue, which with results like that is quite likely (that will then be knocking out your hormones).

No problem, maybe this could be related to low test levels?
I included lots of sessions with high rep squat in order to rise test levels (I read it can be very useful)
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 05:06:42 AM
thats very low on the calories


You think? What do you think would be better? +200/300?
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 05:08:04 AM
5 months and only a 3% decrease off 29%?

Why are you holding so much fat?

I honestly don't know, this is why I'm asking here (so I can get totally destroyed but maybe also get some good points)
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: SuperTed on May 12, 2015, 05:10:06 AM
I have pics but without Tbombz's bunny suits and also I'm not so mad to post a pic on GB  ;D (the lord of photoshop is watching  ;D

Fair enough. :D
What's your current training routine like? Are you doing cardio as well as lifting?
As said above, you should have lost quite a lot more weight if your diet and training was consistent.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Grape Ape on May 12, 2015, 05:12:27 AM
I honestly don't know, this is why I'm asking here (so I can get totally destroyed but maybe also get some good points)

Eat 1800-2000 calories.

Do this workout, maybe add in some interval sprints 3x week too.

http://www.amazon.com/Military-Police-Firefighter-Survival-Guide-ebook/dp/B00NHWBS1I/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431432721&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=stew+smith+police+army

Check back in in 7 weeks.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 05:14:14 AM
Fair enough. :D
What's your current training routine like? Are you doing cardio as well as lifting?
As said above, you should have lost quite a lot more weight if your diet and training was consistent.

Training and diet extremely consistent, no cheat days.

Training: Mon/Wed/Fri

Mon: Pecs+Bis
Wed: Squat+Delts
Fri: Lats+Tris

12 sets for big bodyparts (Pecs/Lats/Legs/Delts)

6 sets for Bis/Tris

Abs on Tue/Thu/Sat, 8 sets per session
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 05:17:28 AM
Eat 1800-2000 calories.

Do this workout, maybe add in some interval sprints 3x week too.

http://www.amazon.com/Military-Police-Firefighter-Survival-Guide-ebook/dp/B00NHWBS1I/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431432721&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=stew+smith+police+army

Check back in in 7 weeks.

So you think I was eating less then half the necessary?
Did you try that training?
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Grape Ape on May 12, 2015, 05:22:01 AM
So you think I was eating less then half the necessary?
Did you try that training?

I don't think you're eating enough, and looking at your workout, you're mired in the tired old bodybuilding routines.

At the numbers you gave, you need to lose fat.  About 30lbs of it to start.

Yes, I've done it.  Fat melted off me, and I didn't watch my diet too close. I probably eat a little more/less than 2k daily.

Don't worry, you won't "lose muscle".....
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 05:23:57 AM
I don't think you're eating enough, and looking at your workout, you're mired in the tired old bodybuilding routines.

At the numbers you gave, you need to lose fat.  About 30lbs of it to start.

Yes, I've done it.  Fat melted off me, and I didn't watch my diet too close. I probably eat a little more/less than 2k daily.

Don't worry, you won't "lose muscle".....

Can you please explain me this part?
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Grape Ape on May 12, 2015, 05:25:24 AM
Can you please explain me this part?

Breaking down the body into specific body parts and doing routines that don't focus on conditioning.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 05:28:20 AM
Breaking down the body into specific body parts and doing routines that don't focus on conditioning.

Thanks. I see. So maybe better do total body workout and some bike (no running for my knees) I guess
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Grape Ape on May 12, 2015, 05:31:57 AM
Thanks. I see. So maybe better do total body workout and some bike (no running for my knees) I guess

Yeah - that's what the workout I posted will do, but definitely substitue the bike since there's a decent amount of running.

Not saying your routine is crap, either.  I just have done those, and they do very little in terms of fat loss and conditioning.

Plus, it's seven weeks.  Over the course of your training career, that's a drop in the bucket.  You can always change back.  

Once I modified my training, I have not, though.  To me, conditioning trumps all now.  I can still lift heavy once a week, but that's it.  The rest is push ups, pull ups, rucks, runs and a conditioning circuits.  I'm a few years older than you.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 05:39:10 AM
Yeah - that's what the workout I posted will do, but definitely substitue the bike since there's a decent amount of running.

Not saying your routine is crap, either.  I just have done those, and they do very little in terms of fat loss and conditioning.

Plus, it's seven weeks.  Over the course of your training career, that's a drop in the bucket.  You can always change back.  

Once I modified my training, I have not, though.  To me, conditioning trumps all now.  I can still lift heavy once a week, but that's it.  The rest is push ups, pull ups, rucks, runs and a conditioning circuits.  I'm a few years older than you.

I made this choice since many "guru" say that

- cardio burn calories only when you're actually doing it
- muscle will burn fat 24/7 so go for the muscle.

Plus I included hi reps squat for test and I was thinking it was a good choice.

You made me reconsider everything, maybe all the efforts were not in the right direction (the italian lifter feels stupid now  ;D
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: SuperTed on May 12, 2015, 05:43:12 AM
Yeah - that's what the workout I posted will do, but definitely substitue the bike since there's a decent amount of running.

Not saying your routine is crap, either.  I just have done those, and they do very little in terms of fat loss and conditioning.

Plus, it's seven weeks.  Over the course of your training career, that's a drop in the bucket.  You can always change back.  

Once I modified my training, I have not, though.  To me, conditioning trumps all now.  I can still lift heavy once a week, but that's it.  The rest is push ups, pull ups, rucks, runs and a conditioning circuits.  I'm a few years older than you.

Good post. The Italian Lifter's current routine is just the standard BB split routine. These routines are crap for natural trainers IME. Sure, you add some muscle but your overall conditioning and appearance remains unimpressive. 
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Thong Maniac on May 12, 2015, 06:07:03 AM
1. You wont "lose" muscle. And if u do, u will still look a million times better with less muscle and even less fat so stop worrying about that bullshit. Supplement mags push that tired rhetoric so you will loads of their carb powders and weight gainers etc.

2. You have way to much fat and need to stop worrying about training
3. Eat healthy non processed foods around 1800 cals
4. Light cardio
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 06:13:41 AM
1. You wont "lose" muscle. And if u do, u will still look a million times better with less muscle and even less fat so stop worrying about that bullshit. Supplement mags push that tired rhetoric so you will loads of their carb powders and weight gainers etc.

2. You have way to much fat and need to stop worrying about training
3. Eat healthy non processed foods around 1800 cals
4. Light cardio


points 2 & 4 mean it's more important cardio than training for my situation?
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Mr Anabolic on May 12, 2015, 06:18:46 AM
Calories are too low... bound to lose lots of muscle.

41 is not old.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 06:24:08 AM
Calories are too low... bound to lose lots of muscle.

41 is not old.

You really think 41 is not old for a natty?
If I'm not mistaken there's an important drop in test levels after 25
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: DroppingPlates on May 12, 2015, 06:24:13 AM
thats very low on the calories


Like way too low. Eating this way, esp as a natty, is a recipe for muscle loss, and muscle loss results in a slower metabolism.
The key is to consume about 80-90% of maintenance level.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 06:28:40 AM
Like way too low. Eating this way, esp as a natty, is a recipe for muscle loss, and muscle loss results in a slower metabolism.
The key is to consume about 80-90% of maintenance level.

Ok, but what do you think of the fact that in 5 months I didn't lost strenght or endurance?
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Grape Ape on May 12, 2015, 06:32:04 AM
Ok, but what do you think of the fact that in 5 months I didn't lost strenght or endurance?

You didn't lose strength because your body comp changed very little.

And you really won't lose too much anyway if you follow what I told you.  You're still using your muscles...probably even moreso.

Did you download the book yet?
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: DroppingPlates on May 12, 2015, 06:34:22 AM
Ok, but what do you think of the fact that in 5 months I didn't lost strenght or endurance?

That's a positive sign, but you will end like a ectomorphic rat if you continue this crash diet. It's simply not the smartest route.
Layne explains the 'why'..

Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Thong Maniac on May 12, 2015, 06:36:10 AM
points 2 & 4 mean it's more important cardio than training for my situation?

At 30 percent BF, yes...cardio and nutrition is what will make or break your results.

Training for muscle definition and looks happens at 15-16 percent BF and lower, in my opinion.

Still lift weights, but do not waste time with complicated routines as it wont make any difference
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 06:36:38 AM
You didn't lose strength because your body comp changed very little.

And you really won't lose too much anyway if you follow what I told you.  You're still using your muscles...probably even moreso.

Did you download the book yet?

I see, this is the reason.
The book is 56% on uTorrent  ;D
Almost ready!
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Mr Anabolic on May 12, 2015, 06:39:19 AM
You really think 41 is not old for a natty?
If I'm not mistaken there's an important drop in test levels after 25

I'm 49 and look better and train harder than most of the cell phone zombies half my age.  Did you ever have your T levels checked?
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Grape Ape on May 12, 2015, 06:42:59 AM
I see, this is the reason.
The book is 56% on uTorrent  ;D
Almost ready!

Stealing a $7 book?  C'mon.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 06:54:10 AM
Stealing a $7 book?  C'mon.

Hey, i'm still a getbigger after all, an eccentric multimillionare  ;D
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 06:55:56 AM
That's a positive sign, but you will end like a ectomorphic rat if you continue this crash diet. It's simply not the smartest route.
Layne explains the 'why'..



Very interesting Drop, thanks for posting it (he also speaks a very easy English which for me is important)
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: DroppingPlates on May 12, 2015, 07:02:40 AM
Very interesting Drop, thanks for posting it (he also speaks a very easy English which for me is important)

Layne's natural status might be debatable, but he speaks common sense here. Dude is clearly inspired by Lyle McDonald, who wrote the book 'the ultimate diet 2.0' for those who want to achieve single digit bf (PM me your email address for a copy)
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: BlackMetallic on May 12, 2015, 07:22:02 AM
Have had a refeed aka cheat day/meal since?

If you havent, ur leptin levels will be low or so ive read.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 07:24:28 AM
Have had a refeed aka cheat day/meal since?

If you havent, ur leptin levels will be low or so ive read.

2 pizzas in the last 5 months
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Sokolsky on May 12, 2015, 08:24:58 AM
Deadlift & squat more.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Vince B on May 12, 2015, 09:58:18 AM
60% protein? This statement alone shows you have no clue about what to do. If you don't understand bodybuilding then asking for advice is also pointless because how are you going to know what to believe? By the way, 40 isn't old.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Grape Ape on May 12, 2015, 09:59:57 AM
60% protein? This statement alone shows you have no clue about what to do. If you don't understand bodybuilding then asking for advice is also pointless because how are you going to know what to believe? By the way, 40 isn't old.

That's not a very nice response.

He's asking because he legitimately wanted help.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 10:10:04 AM
60% protein? This statement alone shows you have no clue about what to do. If you don't understand bodybuilding then asking for advice is also pointless because how are you going to know what to believe? By the way, 40 isn't old.

I asked for advice since time is passing and the results are few, so I guess you do have a point.
As you said I do know little about bodybuilding, this is why people with experience like you can be extremely relevant in understanding what to do.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Vince B on May 12, 2015, 11:14:12 AM
I asked for advice since time is passing and the results are few, so I guess you do have a point.
As you said I do know little about bodybuilding, this is why people with experience like you can be extremely relevant in understanding what to do.

You do have some knowledge. That is the trouble. When things don't work what do you retain and what do you discard? Who is an expert here?

When advice varies it means people believe different things. Most people never work out what makes muscles grow. If you knew that then the

fat issue will evaporate. Almost all trainees do a variation of what you do. They try to work all body parts once a week at least. That routine

sounds like what Ray Mentzer used to do. However, it probably won't build much muscle but will retain what you have which is exactly the result

you have been getting. Post this question on the training forum and you will get advice there.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: residue on May 12, 2015, 11:53:14 AM
Age: 41 y.o. natural
Years of training: 23 (but not during 2014)
Period of training: 5 months (DEC 2014/ MAY 2015)

Initial weigh: 211.4 lbs
Fat: 29.5%

Weight after 5 months: 204.4 lbs
Fat: 26.5%

If I'm not mistaken this means I lost a total of 7.0 lbs and 8.21 lbs of fat.

Is the difference of 1.21 lbs muscle?

Two measurements

Waist from 44.1 (112 cm) to 40.9 (104 cm)
Arms from 15.3 (39 cm) to 15.7 (40 cm)

Edt: diet is 800 to 900 Kcals, more or less 60% of proteins
---

After telling me that it's pathetic, that I'm an old fart etc etc (all the GB standard treatment)
What do you think of these results? Average? Very poor? Decent?

900 cals? you've probably fucked your metabolism to the point if you go back to 1900cals you're going to gain a massive amount of weight.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: Grape Ape on May 12, 2015, 12:38:55 PM
900 cals? you've probably fucked your metabolism to the point if you go back to 1900cals you're going to gain a massive amount of weight.

I'd assume the opposite.
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 01:04:21 PM
I'd assume the opposite.

Me too I was thinking if I increase very gradually the calories what can go wrong
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: residue on May 12, 2015, 01:31:58 PM
Me too I was thinking if I increase very gradually the calories what can go wrong

he'll be fine if it's a slow gradual increase, but if he jumps 1000 overnight he'll rebound pretty bad
Title: Re: Evaluation of progress - Natty old trainer
Post by: The Italian Lifter on May 12, 2015, 01:50:25 PM
he'll be fine if it's a slow gradual increase, but if he jumps 1000 overnight he'll rebound pretty bad

Exactly what i was thinking, maybe a 200 kcals increase a week