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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The True Adonis on July 17, 2015, 08:56:50 PM
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TA, have you done any baking lately? I tried to bake something for a party last week and I screwed up. :( :( :(
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MYTH: The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.
FACT: The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that vilify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.
http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/28/confederate-flag-history/ (http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/28/confederate-flag-history/)
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Destroy All Southern History
Bernie 2016
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qqJ0DGit6SE/0.jpg)
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TA, what does your wife think about the flag? Does she agree with you?
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TA, what does your wife think about the flag? Does she agree with you?
Lol - love to hear what that beauty thinks -
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http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/28/confederate-flag-history/ (http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/28/confederate-flag-history/)
LOL the page you linked to is actually calling that quote you posted bullshit.
Now we move into an area of deliberate obfuscation: The fact that the Confederate battle flag was never the official national flag of the Confederacy is a technical historical aspect which is of little import today — that flag was nevertheless used by officially sanctioned Army and Navy units that fought in the service of the Confederate government, its Southern Cross design was incorporated into the Confederate national flag, and that banner was popularly recognized and regarded at the time as a symbol of the Confederate nation by the people who lived there. If it is considered a symbol of slavery and white supremacy by many people today, in part that’s because it did indeed represent a government, military, and people who fought to preserve those aspects of their society.
Read more at http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/28/confederate-flag-history/#FMkme3S1x8W6VA7J.99
The flag is a symbol of racism.
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here in SW Florida, I see several pickup trucks with 4 to 6 mounted confederate flags in the back, showing it off.
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Are we STILL talking about this ??
Then again, it is TA who started this thread ...
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Perhaps symbols can mean different things to different people.
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Adam, isn't this like the 5th Confederate flag thread you have started? Why not just keep adding to your original thread, instead of making a bunch of new ones?
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Perhaps symbols can mean different things to different people.
Agreed, 10% of the country views the Confederate Flag as "Heritage, Pride, History, Acceptable, Etc.". The other 90% of the country views it as hateful and racist. The same thing can be said for the Nazi Flag, other flags, or other symbols. :-\
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Flying the flag of a loser army. And identifying with it. Doesn't that mean that you identify with losers? Even if you have ancestors who fought in the Civil War, they still lost.
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Agreed, 10% of the country views the Confederate Flag as "Heritage, Pride, History, Acceptable, Etc.". The other 90% of the country views it as hateful and racist. The same thing can be said for the Nazi Flag, other flags, or other symbols. :-\
NO. But thanks for playing.
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Flying the flag of a loser army. And identifying with it. Doesn't that mean that you identify with losers? Even if you have ancestors who fought in the Civil War, they still lost.
Still better than being a black
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Still better than being a black
Wonderful comeback .....
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The Civil War was not about slavery. It was about the federal government taking tax $$ from the south while not allowing it a voice in how that $$ was used. Most "slaves" were treated well. It behooved the slave owner to treat his "slaves" well. When the plantation owner made more $$ the "slaves" got more. The slave owners who beat they're slaves were largely drunks, drug addicts, poor businessmen also beat they're wives/kids/animals IOW fuckups. The federal government had to send "ambassadors" to France/Europe to con them into not buying southern cotton (a then multi-million $$ industry) as the south had tens of millions of $$ & the federal government was basically broke at the start of the war. Funny how northerners were like "those poor slaves" before emancipation then after the war when tens of thousands of ex-slaves moved to the north they were like "I hate all these niggs moving here". They then became "carpetbaggers" invading the south & the homeless rate exploded while the quality of life plummeted in major southern cities.
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LOL the page you linked to is actually calling that quote you posted bullshit.
The flag is a symbol of racism.
Try reading the whole piece.
Here we come to an entry that might properly be characterized as “technically true yet misleading.” Yes, all of the statements above are correct: the Confederate battle flag was never officially the national flag of the Confederate States of America; in that specific form it represented military entities and not the civil government. Nonetheless, by the mid-point of the Civil War the Southern Cross design had become so well-known and popular that it was incorporated as an element of a new Confederate national flag, and it was widely recognized at the time by the citizens of the Confederacy as a symbol of their nation and cause.
Read more at http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/28/confederate-flag-history/#loB7g4KzA7PQ12h5.99
The flag never symbolized racism. It was a battle flag used in the Civil War. Misguided people have ascribed an association with past racism with a flag.
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Agreed, 10% of the country views the Confederate Flag as "Heritage, Pride, History, Acceptable, Etc.". The other 90% of the country views it as hateful and racist. The same thing can be said for the Nazi Flag, other flags, or other symbols. :-\
Your percentages are off.
Hope this helps.
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rEPsfPSIFnw/hqdefault.jpg)
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Try reading the whole piece.
The flag never symbolized racism. It was a battle flag used in the Civil War. Misguided people have ascribed an association with past racism with a flag.
::) I posted a clarification of an excerpt YOU misinterpreted. Even within your last quoted post- presumably meant to support your point- it calls what you posted “technically true yet misleading.”
Yes, it is a symbol of racism.
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The Civil War was not about slavery. It was about the federal government taking tax $$ from the south while not allowing it a voice in how that $$ was used. Most "slaves" were treated well. It behooved the slave owner to treat his "slaves" well. When the plantation owner made more $$ the "slaves" got more. The slave owners who beat they're slaves were largely drunks, drug addicts, poor businessmen also beat they're wives/kids/animals IOW fuckups. The federal government had to send "ambassadors" to France/Europe to con them into not buying southern cotton (a then multi-million $$ industry) as the south had tens of millions of $$ & the federal government was basically broke at the start of the war. Funny how northerners were like "those poor slaves" before emancipation then after the war when tens of thousands of ex-slaves moved to the north they were like "I hate all these niggs moving here". They then became "carpetbaggers" invading the south & the homeless rate exploded while the quality of life plummeted in major southern cities.
Actually, it was about a slave-owning elite, who almost brought an empire to its knees. Thanks for playing.
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Actually, it was about a slave-owning elite, who almost brought an empire to its knees. Thanks for playing.
You mean the elite, like President Lincoln, who had no problem with continuing slavery and even made sure that slavery continued in the great Emancipation Proclamation? ???
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Actually, it was about a slave-owning elite, who almost brought an empire to its knees. Thanks for playing.
I think Lincoln made it pretty clear what the Civil War was about. Do you know what he used as justification for preventing legal Secession? The oath of the Constitution, which really did not give him the legal authority at all and he knew it and so did his attorney general.
Lincoln made it clear what the Civil War was about: “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union, and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.”
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TA has ramped up his trolling as of late! I wonder what's going on!
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The Civil War was not about slavery.
Slavery was the MAJOR reason for the civil war.
Mississippi's Declaration of Secession. It is the first thing mentioned:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.
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You mean the elite, like President Lincoln, who had no problem with continuing slavery and even made sure that slavery continued in the great Emancipation Proclamation? ???
Well. I have a problem with an Emancipation Proclamation after Sherman fucked up the South. Kinda like getting a HOF team, on a holiday. But let's not forget it was an elite bunch of Southerners who farked it up, for everyone.
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Georgia's declaration of secession:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_geosec.asp
Second sentence:
. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
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South Carolina's:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp
We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery;
How is this not about slavery?
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I think Lincoln made it pretty clear what the Civil War was about. Do you know what he used as justification for preventing legal Secession? The oath of the Constitution, which really did not give him the legal authority at all and he knew it and so did his attorney general.
Lincoln made it clear what the Civil War was about: “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union, and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.”
This is completely irrelevant.
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Slavery was the MAJOR reason for the civil war.
Mississippi's Declaration of Secession. It is the first thing mentioned:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp
How come you did not use the North Carolina Declaration of Secession? ??? ???
http://www.constitution.org/csa/ordinances_secession.htm#North%20Carolina
North Carolina
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of North Carolina and the other States united with her, under the compact of government entitled "The Constitution of the United States."
We, the people of the State of North Carolina in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by the State of North Carolina in the convention of 1789, whereby the Constitution of the United States was ratified and adopted, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly ratifying and adopting amendments to the said Constitution, are hereby repealed, rescinded, and abrogated.
We do further declare and ordain, That the union now subsisting between the State of North Carolina and the other States, under the title of the United States of America, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of North Carolina is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.
Done in convention at the city of Raleigh, this the 20th day of May, in the year of our Lord 1861, and in the eighty-fifth year of the independence of said State.
Source: Official Records, Ser. IV, vol. 1, pp. 335-336.
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South Carolina's:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp
How is this not about slavery?
Uh, those are not ordinances of Secession.
Hope this helps.
Here they are:
http://www.constitution.org/csa/ordinances_secession.htm#North%20Carolina
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Another quote by The Great Emancipator. ::)
"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been , in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races...I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." -Abraham Lincoln
Furthermore, Virginia, Tennessee and North Carolina seceded because they feared an invading army.
Stonewall Jackson made it clear:
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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Uh, those are not ordinances of Secession.
Hope this helps.
Here they are:
http://www.constitution.org/csa/ordinances_secession.htm#North%20Carolina
Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
Right at the top of all the links ::) The ordinances you posted don't list any reasons for the war.
The declarations I posted list the SPECIFIC reasons the southern states gave for secession. Slavery is the main point in all of them.
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Another quote by The Great Emancipator. ::)
"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been , in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races...I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." -Abraham Lincoln
Furthermore, Virginia, Tennessee and North Carolina seceded because they feared an invading army.
Stonewall Jackson made it clear:
Emancipater. You rock!
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Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
Right at the top of all the links ::) The ordinances you posted don't list any reasons for the war.
The declarations I posted list the SPECIFIC reasons the southern states gave for secession. Slavery is the main point in all of them.
Find me the specific reasons North Carolina, Virginia and Tennessee seceded. Can you do that for me? ;)
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TA why do give so many fucks about abe lincon confeds civil war ect enlighten me!
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Find me the specific reasons North Carolina, Virginia and Tennessee seceded. Can you do that for me? ;)
Only four states released official declarations.
North Carolina wasn't one of them.
But I guess it's possible that NC's reasons were completely different than Georgia, Texas, South Carolina and Mississipi's reasons. ::)
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Some background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Immediate_Causes_Which_Induce_and_Justify_the_Secession_of_South_Carolina_from_the_Federal_Union
While later claims have been made after the war's end that the South Carolinian decision to secede was prompted by other issues such as tariffs and taxes, these issues were not mentioned at all in the declaration. The primary focus of the declaration is the perceived violation of the Constitution by northern states in not extraditing escaped slaves (as the U.S. Constitution required in Article IV, Section 2) and actively working to abolish slavery (which South Carolinian secessionists saw as Constitutionally guaranteed and protected). The main thrust of the argument was that since the U.S. Constitution, being a contract, had been violated by some parties (the northern abolitionist states), the other parties (the southern slave-holding states) were no longer bound by it. Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas offered similar declarations when they seceded,
Whether or not Lincoln was fighting to free the slaves is not the issue. The south attempted to secede and instigated to maintain slavery.
If you think NC, Virginia,etc went to war for different reasons that didn't include slavery, maybe you have a link showing what those reasons were? ;)
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Some background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Immediate_Causes_Which_Induce_and_Justify_the_Secession_of_South_Carolina_from_the_Federal_Union
Whether or not Lincoln was fighting to free the slaves is not the issue. The south attempted to secede and instigated to maintain slavery.
If you think NC, Virginia,etc went to war for different reasons that didn't include slavery, maybe you have a link showing what those reasons were? ;)
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You are claiming they cited slavery as a reason, but yet don't have any evidence of them doing so. NC was the last to secede by the way. If it were about slavery, don't you think secession from states such as NC would have been instant?
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You are claiming they cited slavery as a reason, but yet don't have any evidence of them doing so. NC was the last to secede by the way. If it were about slavery, don't you think secession from states such as NC would have been instant?
Fine, TA. We know what the reasoning was for 4 states, because they made it perfectly clear in official statement and those reasons were identical. It would be reasonable to assume the others felt the same, since they fought on the same side in a war, but if that's not the case then just post a link with some info showing why that's an incorrect assumption.
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Fine, TA. We know what the reasoning was for 4 states, because they made it perfectly clear in official statement and those reasons were identical. It would be reasonable to assume the others felt the same, since they fought on the same side in a war, but if that's not the case then just post a link with some info showing why that's an incorrect assumption.
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No it wouldn`t.
Do you not understand the Confederacy and its goal of individual state Sovereignty.
Why don't you post the link since you made the claim?
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Furthermore Al Dumbity, the Confederacy was established in the Montgomery Convention in February 1861 (before Lincoln's inauguration in March). March 2nd, Lincoln support the Northern led Permanent Slavery Act seen here: (Secession occurred well before Lincoln and the North wanted a Permanent Slave Act, thus Secession was not about slavery. The "Union" was willing to give the South and the North Permanent Slavery if they rejoined the Union and stopped Seceeding. They didn't. This essentially proves that it was not about Slavery. If it were about Slavery, they would have simply just rejoined the Union and let the Permanent Slave Act Pass and Lincoln already made it known he would sign it)
Hope this helps.
(http://confederateheritage.org/sitebuilder/images/lincoln_endorses_slavery_amendment_Statutes-610x1024.jpg)
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Hope this Helps Al Dumbity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_Amendment
"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.[3][5]"
The Corwin Amendment is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution passed by the 36th Congress on March 2, 1861 and submitted to the state legislatures for ratification.[1] Senator William H. Seward of New York introduced the amendment in the Senate and Representative Thomas Corwin of Ohio introduced it in the House of Representatives. It was one of several measures considered by Congress in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to attract the seceding states back into the Union and to entice border slave states to stay.[2] Technically still pending before the states, it would, if ratified, shield "domestic institutions" of the states (which in 1861 included slavery) from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress.[3][4]
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Just in case you forgot, William Seward, who introduced the Northern Permanent Slave Act "Corwin Ammendment", was Lincoln's Secretary of State.
Hope this helps, Dumbity.
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No it wouldn`t.
Yes, it would. All of the states that issued Declarations stated the exact same reasons. All of the states that fought as part of the confederacy had that reason in common.
You're claiming the claim is false when it makes no sense to do so. Even if you want to make the argument that we can't know what NC's reasons are because we don't an official declaration from them,that is a minor quibble. ::) The ONLY official declarations we have ALL list slavery as the primary reason.
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Hope this Helps Al Dumbity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_Amendment
"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.[3][5]"
The Corwin Amendment is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution passed by the 36th Congress on March 2, 1861 and submitted to the state legislatures for ratification.[1] Senator William H. Seward of New York introduced the amendment in the Senate and Representative Thomas Corwin of Ohio introduced it in the House of Representatives. It was one of several measures considered by Congress in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to attract the seceding states back into the Union and to entice border slave states to stay.[2] Technically still pending before the states, it would, if ratified, shield "domestic institutions" of the states (which in 1861 included slavery) from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress.[3][4]
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/failure-compromise/resources/proposed-thirteenth-amendment-prevent-secession-1861
Excerpt 1:
In the wake of the presidential election of 1860 that brought Abraham Lincoln to the White House, the slaveholding states of the American South, led by South Carolina, began withdrawing from the nation. In the midst of this constitutional crisis, President James Buchanan, still in office until Lincoln’s inauguration in March 1861, tried to reassure the South that their slave property would remain safe, even under the incoming Republican administration.
Excerpt 2:
” The amendment, officially designated Joint Resolution No. 80, passed the House of Representatives in late February by the convincing vote of more than two-thirds of the membership. It was delivered to the Senate just days before Lincoln’s inauguration and although most members of that body supported it, opponents were successful in blocking the amendment on a parliamentary technicality. Lincoln sent the amendment to the states for consideration. Only Ohio and Maryland ratified it. The copy of the amendment provided here is the one sent to Maryland for approval.
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And, we're off to the Google races! :D
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And, we're off to the Google races! :D
And you were just doing your usual, making stuff up without any evidence.
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My best friend's family had slaves back in the day. They treated the slaves well and remained friends with them after they were freed.
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[quote author=The True Adonis link=topic=576540.msg8139723#msg8139723 date=1437264588]
And you were just doing your usual, making stuff up without any evidence.
[/quote]
I'm only here for the trolling, and the lulz. I would've thought you'd have figured that out by now.
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I'm only here for the trolling, and the lulz. I would've thought you'd have figured that out by now.
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What a cop out. Look at your post history.
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What a cop out. Look at your post history.
I haven't looked, what does it show? :D
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I haven't looked, what does it show? :D
It shows that you have wasted your time for the most part.
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It shows that you have wasted your time for the most part.
Which leads us back to my post about being here for "the trolling and the lulz". You're starting to get it. You smarter than I gave you credit for. :D