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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Dr.J on August 08, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
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I've been off for 6 months. Feel tired all the time, lost muscle, gained fat, also depressed.
U?
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Shit, tired like you say, no enthusiasm, lazy. I'm pretty sure physically softer (as in cuts and knocks hurt more) or maybe that's age
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If I choose to take test is this what I have to look forward to?
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If I choose to take test is this what I have to look forward to?
Only if you stop taking.. ;)
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Shit to nothing. My emotions slowly dissipate. My gf calls me flatliner.
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I've been off for 6 months. Feel tired all the time, lost muscle, gained fat, also depressed.
U?
The exact same way. I'm actually going to start slamming again soon
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I think the worst part is the worse I feel about the way I look the less I want to diet and the more I lake motivation to get at it again. Maybe im alone on this
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I think the worst part is the worse I feel about the way I look the less I want to diet and the more I lake motivation to get at it again. Maybe im alone on this
Then the next thing you know your yard has grown into a meadow.
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I think the worst part is the worse I feel about the way I look the less I want to diet and the more I lake motivation to get at it again. Maybe im alone on this
No you are not, I'm also upset alot and don't look forward to much, amazing what a huge part it takes of our daily well being and outlook on life. I also take things alot harder, intstead of shrugging things off.
U?
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I feel awesome... Its been few years already... I just throw in NPp or tre A or mast A if i need it.. Plus plsying with some pills.. 215 at 8% bf all yeAr round ;)... Overall great feeling !!!
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I need something more in my life...
I still get excited about intellectual shit, sometimes. Philosophical questions and all that. Questions of mortality get me more freaked out and feeling more alive than I ever have before.
But something is still missing :-\
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(http://voices.washingtonpost.com/early-lead/droopy.gif)
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Bottom line: The Grim Reaper's approach is more exciting and more life affirming then I ever expected.
But I still really, really miss the warm glow of having a surplus of testosterone. I feel saggy.
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At age 27, I had a blood test once and came back 150ng/dl (normal range 300-1000 or something). I was still horny and had morning boners, etc. But mentally I was moody, depressed and anxious.
I had it retested a few weeks later and came back 350ng/dl in the afternoon, so maybe 400 ng/dl if blood was taken in the morning. Still too low for a 27 year old. Doctors wouldn't do shit about it, so I just experimented with low dose clomid (10mg every 2 or 3 days), I made some new muscle and strength gains on the clomid, and got hairier.
When I hit 35 I decided to self-medicate with test. Mood and muscle gains improved but nothing mind blowing. Just feel more "alpha" and in control.
How the fuck do women function with 30 ng/dl of test? Or children with zero test, though kids have high gh levels, less insight into the fucked up nature of the reality we live in, no responsibilities, and a brain like a sponge soaking up new and novel experiences an information on a daily basis.
My theory is that testosterone is an addictive substance that you become dependent on, after it has been in your system a while. Testosterone causes permanent changes to the brain and body, and when it is removed the system doesn't work properly anymore.
I like this theory!
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Definitely.
Side effects include rage and criminal behavior, unfortunately.
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Damn, doesn't sound that appeasing.
I am that way when I am hungover.
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all your might coming from a small ampule and pills :D
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all your might coming from a small ampule and pills :D
Terrible situation to be in come an end-of-days scenario. Also would really be an uphill battle should you make it onto Naked and Afraid.
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My experience was it was the same mood as when you have a really bad flu. Don't care to eat, Fuck, or do anything. There was also a day or two I couldn't get hard to save my life. Pretty scary crash, that I'm just recently slowly feeling like my old self. not sure I'll do it again, even though the on cycle experience felt incredible. I just hated the feeling after like I had made a small deal with the devil.
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My theory is that testosterone is an addictive substance that you become dependent on, after it has been in your system a while. Testosterone causes permanent changes to the brain and body, and when it is removed the system doesn't work properly anymore.
I think that makes sense. Even though your body produces it naturally, you are still introducing a foreign amount of it into your body, and after you stop things naturally take a while to recalibrate. Same reason opiate users/addicts feel lethargic and depressed after stopping due to depressed dopamine levels (the rest of withdrawal syndrome notwithstanding).
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This thread has become very pathetic. Lots of estrogen in this thread.
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Before I went on "TRT", I was tired, low energy, low libido. Just kinda "old" in general.
Even at low doses, there is a definite difference in mental acuity and drive/toughness, even if the muscle-building effects are negligible.
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I cycled for 4 years. Came off at 24. Hated Cycling and feeling crappy then going back on and feeling 'uptight', my Red Blood Cell count was climbing higher every cycle. Took maybe a year before i felt completely normal even though i remember having blood work done 4 months after and my test levels were normal. I feel much better now i have never had any desire to go back on and it's been almost 12 years. I was shitting myself i would lose all my muscle but i didn't change. I had 4 years natural training before i juiced so that obviously made a difference.
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I've been off for 6 months. Feel tired all the time, lost muscle, gained fat, also depressed.
U?
all time natty here, but yes, I feel exactly like that :P
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At age 27, I had a blood test once and came back 150ng/dl (normal range 300-1000 or something). I was still horny and had morning boners, etc. But mentally I was moody, depressed and anxious.
I had it retested a few weeks later and came back 350ng/dl in the afternoon, so maybe 400 ng/dl if blood was taken in the morning. Still too low for a 27 year old. Doctors wouldn't do shit about it, so I just experimented with low dose clomid (10mg every 2 or 3 days), I made some new muscle and strength gains on the clomid, and got hairier.
When I hit 35 I decided to self-medicate with test. Mood and muscle gains improved but nothing mind blowing. Just feel more "alpha" and in control.
How the fuck do women function with 30 ng/dl of test? Or children with zero test, though kids have high gh levels, less insight into the fucked up nature of the reality we live in, no responsibilities, and a brain like a sponge soaking up new and novel experiences an information on a daily basis.
My theory is that testosterone is an addictive substance that you become dependent on, after it has been in your system a while. Testosterone causes permanent changes to the brain and body, and when it is removed the system doesn't work properly anymore.
Welcome to placebo ville. Population: YOU!!!
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Welcome to placebo ville. Population: YOU!!!
lmao
unless he meant to say 100mg clomid eod then... yes :D
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Life without test is a terrible experience I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
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At age 27, I had a blood test once and came back 150ng/dl (normal range 300-1000 or something). I was still horny and had morning boners, etc. But mentally I was moody, depressed and anxious.
I had it retested a few weeks later and came back 350ng/dl in the afternoon, so maybe 400 ng/dl if blood was taken in the morning. Still too low for a 27 year old. Doctors wouldn't do shit about it, so I just experimented with low dose clomid (10mg every 2 or 3 days), I made some new muscle and strength gains on the clomid, and got hairier.
When I hit 35 I decided to self-medicate with test. Mood and muscle gains improved but nothing mind blowing. Just feel more "alpha" and in control.
How the fuck do women function with 30 ng/dl of test? Or children with zero test, though kids have high gh levels, less insight into the fucked up nature of the reality we live in, no responsibilities, and a brain like a sponge soaking up new and novel experiences an information on a daily basis.
My theory is that testosterone is an addictive substance that you become dependent on, after it has been in your system a while. Testosterone causes permanent changes to the brain and body, and when it is removed the system doesn't work properly anymore.
But your body makes testosterone or should do hopefully. I can see the point if you mean supra physiological doses of it for a long time.
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LOL, there a a few studies out there showing that just 25mg clomid per day will double test levels. Bodybuilders take way too much clomid after their cycles and wonder why they turn into crying bitches. 100/100/50/50 clomid pct, crazy retarded bodybuilder dosages.
Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism.
Shabsigh A1, Kang Y, Shabsign R, Gonzalez M, Liberson G, Fisch H, Goluboff E.
Author information
Abstract
AIM:
Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio.
METHODS:
Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.
RESULTS:
The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 +/- 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 +/- 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4-6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 +/- 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.
CONCLUSIONS:
Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estradiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.
Another study results:
(http://www.ergo-log.com/plaatjes/clomid25mgtestosterone3.gif)
(http://www.ergo-log.com/plaatjes/clomid25mgtestosterone2.gif)
I think I was a hyper responder to clomid, probably like one of the guys in the above study who got his test up to 1200 ng/dl on 25mg clomid per day.
I had 650 ng/dl on 10 mg every two days. I tried a higher dose but it made me moody.
Well hot damn! You present some interesting information here. One thing I agree on 100% is the gonzo doses of clomid guys use post cycle, then wonder why they don't feel right, lol!
Did you start shooting bigger loads on clomid?
But as far as the test increase, going from 300is to 600is is still a low total, even 1200 is not really optimal for bodybuilding. Still wonder if those doses would work as well in pct situation. Or does hyponuts mean hypo nuts?
They should just put some clomid in otc supps for a little boost. Stuff is f'IN cheap in bulk anyway...
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hm never seen that study either, interesting.
makey you wonder if BB dosages are in general way too high (even for PCT drugs lol)
i recall seeing a study where HCG alone put hypogonadal men into low normal range at 250iu a week and very upper normal testosterone range on just 250 iu twice a week... wonder what these stupid 5000iu a week dosages do
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This thread inspired me to do my first shot of Test in 3 years................WAT CH OUT!!!! :D
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What's a recommended pct cycle for 12 week test e only run?
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What's a recommended pct cycle for 12 week test e only run?
take your pic. there's a ton of them and all of them have a certain angle that makes them "correct"
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What's a recommended pct cycle for 12 week test e only run?
No PCT needed bro!!
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What's a recommended pct cycle for 12 week test e only run?
bodybuilding.com has a lot of solid advices for this query.
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A question for those who have tried both... Is it comparable to being permanently hungover, minus the sickness of course?
Because it sounds exactly like the state I'm in after a 2 day drinking session.
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bodybuilding.com has a lot of solid advices for this query.
Nice try!
Ritch,
I did a basic clomid/nolvadex cycle and by the end of week three felt like crap.
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Nice try!
Ritch,
I did a basic clomid/nolvadex cycle and by the end of week three felt like crap.
Why?
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Why?
Exactly!
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Because I was stupid and made a noob error.
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I've been off for 6 months. Feel tired all the time, lost muscle, gained fat, also depressed.
U?
Pretty horrible is the answer, been off gear for 5 months, did proper PCT and after 2 months my test levels came back to higher end of normal, i think around 28 pmol/L, then again I always had high test naturally....still it doesn't even feel close to being on gear......no motivation to train natty and sex drive while acceptable, psychologically doesn't even feel remotely close.
If I was you I would take Arimidex at 1mg EOD it will increase your natty test production by about 30-40%.
Lower dosage of dex won't have the same desired effect.
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28 pmol/L is very good recovery Junior! you should feel fine at that level.
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At age 27, I had a blood test once and came back 150ng/dl (normal range 300-1000 or something). I was still horny and had morning boners, etc. But mentally I was moody, depressed and anxious.
I had it retested a few weeks later and came back 350ng/dl in the afternoon, so maybe 400 ng/dl if blood was taken in the morning. Still too low for a 27 year old. Doctors wouldn't do shit about it, so I just experimented with low dose clomid (10mg every 2 or 3 days), I made some new muscle and strength gains on the clomid, and got hairier.
When I hit 35 I decided to self-medicate with test. Mood and muscle gains improved but nothing mind blowing. Just feel more "alpha" and in control.
How the fuck do women function with 30 ng/dl of test? Or children with zero test, though kids have high gh levels, less insight into the fucked up nature of the reality we live in, no responsibilities, and a brain like a sponge soaking up new and novel experiences an information on a daily basis.
My theory is that testosterone is an addictive substance that you become dependent on, after it has been in your system a while. Testosterone causes permanent changes to the brain and body, and when it is removed the system doesn't work properly anymore.
They have other hormones going on. Women have low test, but very high estrogens compared with us. The symphoms can come from lack of hormones in general, not just testosterone or estrogen.
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Clomid is by far the weirdest stuff i've ever took.
One hour after the catch i feel like life is meaningless, i want to cry, almost i want to die. it's a deep feeling.
Then one hour after i'm euphoric.
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I always stay on some Test..........keeps my old ass as horny as a 16 year old 2 peckered billygoat. :D
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I am natural now and have plenty of motivation to train, actually growing a bit.
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In an all time low of test atm, and all thoughts of rump romps of old have dissipated in a peaceful manner (of peace).
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why so? did you come off?
my libido hasn't suffered. Just less impulsive.
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why so? did you come off?
my libido hasn't suffered. Just less impulsive.
Hey BR hope your well.
What did you run for PCT?
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When I tested at 240 thirteen years ago when I first saw my doctor, I felt HORRIBLE! Repeat: HORRIBLE! I cried in his office after being told by several other negligent doctors that my problem was "in my head".
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Hey BR hope your well.
What did you run for PCT?
all good thanks, I ran 500 iu eod for a total of 5000iu and 20mg nolvadex for 5 weeks.
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33 now and feel like my test is naturally higher than it was in my 20's.
Feel more assertive, aggressive and physically powerful but in a calm way even though I do have more violent thoughts.
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I am natural now and have plenty of motivation to train, actually growing a bit.
:o.. 8)
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I am natural now and have plenty of motivation to train, actually growing a bit.
I bet you are.....
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why so? did you come off?
my libido hasn't suffered. Just less impulsive.
I'm just old, and feel old lol
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I'm just old, and feel old lol
HOW OLD?STILL NUTS THE PIC..DIE HARD
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I'm just old, and feel old lol
Kwon my brother,over your many years here you have aged like a fine wine! :D
NO HOMO
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Kwon my brother,over your many years here you have aged like a fine wine! :D
NO HOMO
Still, test is at an all time-low and so is the libido.
Feel weak and tired and the Missus been complaining about "Been ages since we had sex!"
Starting to feel like Primemuscle.
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LOL, there a a few studies out there showing that just 25mg clomid per day will double test levels. Bodybuilders take way too much clomid after their cycles and wonder why they turn into crying bitches. 100/100/50/50 clomid pct, crazy retarded bodybuilder dosages.
Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism.
Shabsigh A1, Kang Y, Shabsign R, Gonzalez M, Liberson G, Fisch H, Goluboff E.
Author information
Abstract
AIM:
Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio.
METHODS:
Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.
RESULTS:
The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 +/- 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 +/- 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4-6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 +/- 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.
CONCLUSIONS:
Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estradiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.
Another study results:
(http://www.ergo-log.com/plaatjes/clomid25mgtestosterone3.gif)
(http://www.ergo-log.com/plaatjes/clomid25mgtestosterone2.gif)
I think I was a hyper responder to clomid, probably like one of the guys in the above study who got his test up to 1200 ng/dl on 25mg clomid per day.
I had 650 ng/dl on 10 mg every two days. I tried a higher dose but it made me moody.
I took just 10mg pharma nolvadex for PCT for my first cycle every night before bed and woke up every morning with massive erections. Never experienced anything like that, even on the 500mg test I was just on.
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Just had blood work done after taking 5 months off and test levels were smack dab in the middle of the reference range. I'm 43 so was kinda surprised...thought they would be lower.
Mentally I still had drive and motivation, but what killed me was the injuries I was fighting while I came off. Couldn't train properly and I think that was the biggest factor in losing most of the muscle and gaining the fat I did.
I did a Nolva/clomid PCT. I love clomid for PCT but I will never take Nolva again for anything.
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Just had blood work done after taking 5 months off and test levels were smack dab in the middle of the reference range. I'm 43 so was kinda surprised...thought they would be lower.
Mentally I still had drive and motivation, but what killed me was the injuries I was fighting while I came off. Couldn't train properly and I think that was the biggest factor in losing most of the muscle and gaining the fat I did.
I did a Nolva/clomid PCT. I love clomid for PCT but I will never take Nolva again for anything.
Why? What issues did you have with Nolva?
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Why? What issues did you have with Nolva?
Was at work one day and all of a sudden I started getting double vision.....couldn't focus on anything. Lasted for about 2 minutes, then went away. Didn't know what was going on so that night I went to the Hospital. When they tested my blood pressure it was 185 (can't remember what the lower number was). But my blood pressure is NEVER high, and the only thing I was taking at the time was Nolva, and the only reason I was taking the nolva is because I ran out of Clomid a few weeks earlier.
Stopped taking the Nolva immediately and started monitoring my blood pressure. Within 2 weeks it had dropped back down to 130-ish /80-ish range.
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all your might coming from a small ampule and pills :D
It does sound a bit sad. Then again: you only live once, and I'd rather be mighty due to chemical enhancements than to never be mighty at all.
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Clomid is by far the weirdest stuff i've ever took.
One hour after the catch i feel like life is meaningless, i want to cry, almost i want to die. it's a deep feeling.
Then one hour after i'm euphoric.
Strange. Clomid makes me a bit agressive. If i take it at nightime i can't sleep.