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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 08:04:02 AM

Title: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 08:04:02 AM
How many of you guys use the smith machine for these? The video below shows a young guy using great form for a heavy weight. Saw another video Of Jay Cutler using a smith machine. I like the smith machine for front squats in the Gym. i feel my Quads more.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Waller on August 28, 2015, 08:07:16 AM
I've tried so hard to get on with front squats because of how good they feel on my quads, but have never managed. If I sit the bar behind my front delts it presses on my Adams apple and makes me heave mid-set. If I have the bar the other side of my delt it pulls me forward too much.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Coffeed on August 28, 2015, 08:10:03 AM
It's definitely different.

Probably doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of it all though.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 08:12:24 AM
I've tried so hard to get on with front squats because of how good they feel on my quads, but have never managed. If I sit the bar behind my front delts it presses on my Adams apple and makes me heave mid-set. If I have the bar the other side of my delt it pulls me forward too much.
Try one of these
https://www.gymratz.co.uk/sting-ray
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Waller on August 28, 2015, 08:13:49 AM
Try one of these
https://www.gymratz.co.uk/sting-ray

Never seen one of those before. Anyone ever tried one?
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on August 28, 2015, 08:14:45 AM
I really like safety bar squats
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 08:15:43 AM
It's definitely different.

Probably doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of it all though.
i find when i go heavier the smith machine is good. Really hits my middle/lower quads. You are no doubt right though, still i feel better and more in control.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 08:19:01 AM
I really like safety bar squats
Never used it and have never seen it used here.. good tip i will look into it. I think it would be great in the Gym here.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Princess L on August 28, 2015, 08:22:36 AM
I've tried so hard to get on with front squats because of how good they feel on my quads, but have never managed. If I sit the bar behind my front delts it presses on my Adams apple and makes me heave mid-set. If I have the bar the other side of my delt it pulls me forward too much.

Smith machines vary slightly mfgr to mfgr.  Some are easier than others to do fronts in.

Never seen one of those before. Anyone ever tried one?

Def. not a one size fits all kind of apparatus.



I really like safety bar squats
^
X2
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Princess L on August 28, 2015, 08:28:36 AM
Love this machine.
Perfect multi-tasker.



(http://www.allproexercise.com/client_images/catalog19894/pages/images/Magnum_400_Perfect_Squat.jpg)
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 08:31:44 AM
Love this machine.
Perfect multi-tasker.



(http://www.allproexercise.com/client_images/catalog19894/pages/images/Magnum_400_Perfect_Squat.jpg)
wish we had it.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Royalty on August 28, 2015, 08:34:08 AM
This piece of equipment was developed by Uncle Joon, or Louie Simmons, I can remember who came up with it first.

But it helps with front squats
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Waller on August 28, 2015, 08:42:51 AM
This piece of equipment was developed by Uncle Joon, or Louie Simmons, I can remember who came up with it first.

But it helps with front squats


I think it was Panthro.

(http://middleclassfury.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/panthro7.jpg)
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: mr.turbo on August 28, 2015, 08:58:16 AM
how about you guys stop crying and figure out how to do the movement correctly?
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: _aj_ on August 28, 2015, 09:15:47 AM
I really like safety bar squats

I thought that these would be the solution to my lower back squatting woes, so I paid $350 for a Westside safety squat bar. It turns out that it takes a regular back squat and rotates the weight further out over your toes, creating MORE shear force on your lower back. Worse.

With my dodgy shoulder holding front squats stable is a problem. Finally settled on Landmine Squats, which help me to maintain a good squat pattern and keep the weight centered and over my heels. Kinda homo looking, tho.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: ritch on August 28, 2015, 09:20:08 AM
Front squats are king for quads. Back squats suck when compared. It's very easy to keep your back straight. If you don't, the bar will crush your delts.

But they still hurt my left side so seldom do them. And going ATG just occurs normally for some reason when doing them.

Gonna give them a try again next monday but not on the smith machine. Tried it before, did not find the movement to be natural feeling at all. But works for some.

Nothing like front squatting some other dude's max back squat, lol...
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 09:31:52 AM
Front squats are king for quads. Back squats suck when compared. It's very easy to keep your back straight. If you don't, the bar will crush your delts.

But they still hurt my left side so seldom do them. And going ATG just occurs normally for some reason when doing them.

Gonna give them a try again next monday but not on the smith machine. Tried it before, did not find the movement to be natural feeling at all. But works for some.

Nothing like front squatting some other dude's max back squat, lol...
Great exercise and i find the clean grip better just resting the bar on my finger tips... the other method i find unstable but is ok in the smith machine. crossing your arms elbows high. Love it or hate it a great Quad exercise.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: ritch on August 28, 2015, 09:33:43 AM
Great exercise and i find the clean grip better just resting the bar on my finger tips... the other method i find unstable but is ok in the smith machine. crossing your arms elbows high. Love it or hate it a great Quad exercise.

It's how I do them. Just so easy to keep straight back this way...
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: chaos on August 28, 2015, 09:36:55 AM
I thought that these would be the solution to my lower back squatting woes, so I paid $350 for a Westside safety squat bar. It turns out that it takes a regular back squat and rotates the weight further out over your toes, creating MORE shear force on your lower back. Worse.

With my dodgy shoulder holding front squats stable is a problem. Finally settled on Landmine Squats, which help me to maintain a good squat pattern and keep the weight centered and over my heels. Kinda homo looking, tho.
  ??? Maybe you're using it backward?
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 09:42:30 AM
It's how I do them. Just so easy to keep straight back this way...
Great if it works for you but i find it awkward. I find when i squat my elbows drop too much if you know what i mean...clean position i can bring my elbows up more natural. End of the Day i get much better results from it than back squats.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: ritch on August 28, 2015, 09:44:37 AM
Great if it works for you but i find it awkward. I find when i squat my elbows drop too much if you know what i mean...clean position i can bring my elbows up more natural. End of the Day i get much better results from it than back squats.

My left shoulder sure does... Brutal if you don't keep them up. The lower I go, the more I focus on keeping my elbows up.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 09:49:45 AM
My left shoulder sure does... Brutal if you don't keep them up. The lower I go, the more I focus on keeping my elbows up.
Do you use lifting shoes or a heel raise?
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: ritch on August 28, 2015, 09:57:17 AM
Do you use lifting shoes or a heel raise?

Nah.
But I have merrell flat foot barefoot runner shoes. NO, not the idiotic one's with the seperate toe's, lol...

Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Royalty on August 28, 2015, 09:58:05 AM
I thought that these would be the solution to my lower back squatting woes, so I paid $350 for a Westside safety squat bar. It turns out that it takes a regular back squat and rotates the weight further out over your toes, creating MORE shear force on your lower back. Worse.

With my dodgy shoulder holding front squats stable is a problem. Finally settled on Landmine Squats, which help me to maintain a good squat pattern and keep the weight centered and over my heels. Kinda homo looking, tho.


You may have to hold on to the rack; sit way back as you go down. That should throw more pressure onto the hamstrings

Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Henda on August 28, 2015, 10:10:57 AM
Can't get away with front squats for the same reasons Waller mentioned above.
Recently dropped the weight on normal squats and placed a board under the heels and was amazed by the difference in feel, my reasons behind this was squats seemed to work my inner thigh and arse and have developed a rounded ass which I fucking hate. Will probably never flat foot squat again
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Princess L on August 28, 2015, 10:14:41 AM
I thought that these would be the solution to my lower back squatting woes, so I paid $350 for a Westside safety squat bar. It turns out that it takes a regular back squat and rotates the weight further out over your toes, creating MORE shear force on your lower back. Worse.

With my dodgy shoulder holding front squats stable is a problem. Finally settled on Landmine Squats, which help me to maintain a good squat pattern and keep the weight centered and over my heels. Kinda homo looking, tho.

Try keeping the handles up like this vs down like the 2nd pic

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2bkidbmb8Tk/maxresdefault.jpg)

not

(http://cdn.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/a/safety-squat-bar-3.jpg)

Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: _aj_ on August 28, 2015, 10:19:29 AM
Try keeping the handles up like this vs down like the 2nd pic

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2bkidbmb8Tk/maxresdefault.jpg)

not

(http://cdn.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/a/safety-squat-bar-3.jpg)

Note that in the handles-up stance, the weights rotate forward, which increases the lever arm on the shear force on the low-back. I have tried them backwards, but that's even more awkward, even if the weights are rotated back.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 10:21:12 AM
Can't get away with front squats for the same reasons Waller mentioned above.
Recently dropped the weight on normal squats and placed a board under the heels and was amazed by the difference in feel, my reasons behind this was squats seemed to work my inner thigh and arse and have developed a rounded ass which I fucking hate. Will probably never flat foot squat again
I prefer Flat footed squatting front or back.. including Hacks with a Barbell. end of the Day if it works it works.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: wes on August 28, 2015, 10:21:16 AM
I thought that these would be the solution to my lower back squatting woes, so I paid $350 for a Westside safety squat bar. It turns out that it takes a regular back squat and rotates the weight further out over your toes, creating MORE shear force on your lower back. Worse.

With my dodgy shoulder holding front squats stable is a problem. Finally settled on Landmine Squats, which help me to maintain a good squat pattern and keep the weight centered and over my heels. Kinda homo looking, tho.
Thanks for the tip aj......just Googles Landmine Squats and they are firast on the agenda next leg day.


Having trouble squatting lately due to back issues.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: wes on August 28, 2015, 10:22:55 AM
If anyone can`t do Front Squats because the bar chokes you,simply hold the bar in the clean position.......this is the old school way to do them without throat/choking issues.


PS-some may have to tape or wrap the wrists at first.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Princess L on August 28, 2015, 10:23:14 AM
Note that in the handles-up stance, the weights rotate forward, which increases the lever arm on the shear force on the low-back. I have tried them backwards, but that's even more awkward, even if the weights are rotated back.


hmmm  disagree.  The camber of the bar keeps the weight distribution backside, vs front - at least for me.  Maybe you have a long torso?
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Donny on August 28, 2015, 10:25:35 AM
Note that in the handles-up stance, the weights rotate forward, which increases the lever arm on the shear force on the low-back. I have tried them backwards, but that's even more awkward, even if the weights are rotated back.
Didnīt Dave Draper sell these ? saw a video of it before. also Frank zane sold a device for squats but front squats are unique
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: _aj_ on August 28, 2015, 10:26:54 AM

hmmm  disagree.  The camber of the bar keeps the weight distribution backside, vs front - at least for me.  Maybe you have a long torso?

At 6'3" that kinda goes without saying. And I will be the first to admit that my squat problems are self-made. Squatted wrong for 25 years. Even had access to a first rate coach and declined in college. Good thinking  :-\

I have been trying to unlearn so much poor muscle memory.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Princess L on August 28, 2015, 10:28:55 AM
Didn't hear a word he said, but the demo looks good to me.

Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Henda on August 28, 2015, 10:29:49 AM
I prefer Flat footed squatting front or back.. including Hacks with a Barbell. end of the Day if it works it works.

I think individual leverages have a lot to do with it, wor lass who is short can flat footed squat atg with a narrow stance and upright torso and hit the quads well whereas I have to spread out the stance a bit and once below parallel still have a lot of forward lean and ended up with chafing inner thighs and a arse that sticks out (which I fucking can't stand) but next to no outer quad development.

Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: mr.turbo on August 28, 2015, 10:32:21 AM
I think individual leverages have a lot to do with it, wor lass who is short can flat footed squat atg with a narrow stance and upright torso and hit the quads well whereas I have to spread out the stance a bit and once below parallel still have a lot of forward lean and ended up with chafing inner thighs and a arse that sticks out (which I fucking can't stand) but next to no outer quad development.



let's see the ass pic
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Thin Lizzy on August 28, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
I think individual leverages have a lot to do with it, wor lass who is short can flat footed squat atg with a narrow stance and upright torso and hit the quads well whereas I have to spread out the stance a bit and once below parallel still have a lot of forward lean and ended up with chafing inner thighs and a arse that sticks out (which I fucking can't stand) but next to no outer quad development.



6'3" guy, here.

For me, narrow stance = knee pain

Slightly wider than shoulder width stance with knees pointing out about 45 degrees = no knee pain.

Also, as a middle age lifter, I've found that most of the aches and pains magically go away when you take a few plates off the bar.

Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Princess L on August 28, 2015, 10:53:58 AM
6'3" guy, here.

For me, narrow stance = knee pain

Slightly wider than shoulder width stance with knees pointing out about 45 degrees = no knee pain.

Also, as a middle age lifter, I've found that most of the aches and pains magically go away when you take a few plates off the bar leave your ego at the door.



fixed  ;)
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: chaos on August 28, 2015, 12:02:12 PM
Didn't hear a word he said, but the demo looks good to me.


Staring at her ass or his crotch?
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: bigmc on August 28, 2015, 12:03:17 PM
6'3" guy, here.

For me, narrow stance = knee pain

Slightly wider than shoulder width stance with knees pointing out about 45 degrees = no knee pain.

Also, as a middle age lifter, I've found that most of the aches and pains magically go away when you take a few plates off the bar.



best post in the thread

warm up properly too
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Rambone on August 28, 2015, 12:07:11 PM
I've been doing nothing but front squats the past 2 weeks for my 1st exercise instead of back squats because my knees were bothering me. Feels so much better to me. Probably better for us over 6 feet tall folk
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: mr.turbo on August 28, 2015, 12:54:30 PM
240lbs for 3

(http://33.media.tumblr.com/ec954ded88b8a54c675e5b02e3c4e593/tumblr_n3rf2xs6kv1qdjo2ho1_400.gif)
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: tommywishbone on August 28, 2015, 01:00:49 PM
Unless you are a competitive Olympic Lifter, why in the fucking world would anyone do front squats?
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: mr.turbo on August 28, 2015, 01:29:38 PM
there's this new thing, they call it "cross-fit"
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Mawse on August 28, 2015, 02:07:50 PM
Just wrap straps around the bar and pull up on them the whole time
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: BB on August 28, 2015, 02:14:58 PM
Just wrap straps around the bar and pull up on them the whole time

That is indeed the most comfortable way to do it for a rec. lifter I've found -

(http://nattyornot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/doug-nassif-front-squat.jpg).

(http://nattyornot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/doug-nassif-front-squat-1.jpg).
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: mr.turbo on August 28, 2015, 02:15:22 PM
(http://www.bodybuildingarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/75.jpg)
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: The True Adonis on August 28, 2015, 04:50:29 PM
Front Squats only work for people who are narrow shouldered, short torso, short leg, small feet.

Most of the time if you do not fit any of those you will suck at it.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Thin Lizzy on August 28, 2015, 05:40:35 PM
(http://www.bodybuildingarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/75.jpg)

I believe this back squat pic is taken from the same workout.

Notice how Platz is leaning forward some. By leaning, in addition to the knee joint,  the hips are also a lever and a fulcrum, hence the term "compound movement."

In front squats, the upright position, that Ritch mentioned, takes the hips out of the lever equation, and puts the main burden in the knee joint. You can get away with this for awhile, but eventually, you'll most likely have knee issues.

Of course, if you lean too far forward doing back squats, you'll have the same issue only in the lumbar area.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: herefortheglitter on August 28, 2015, 08:21:26 PM
Nah.
But I have merrell flat foot barefoot runner shoes. NO, not the idiotic one's with the seperate toe's, lol...



HEY!!! I wear those (Vibrams) and they are amazing for balance. Haha
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: herefortheglitter on August 28, 2015, 08:50:52 PM
Front Squats only work for people who are narrow shouldered, short torso, short leg, small feet.

Most of the time if you do not fit any of those you will suck at it.

This is an interesting theory. I am all of the above and the only problem I have with fronts is slight pain in my wrists.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: chaos on August 28, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Front Squats only work for people who are narrow shouldered, short torso, short leg, small feet.

Most of the time if you do not fit any of those you will suck at it.
::)
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: catracho on August 28, 2015, 09:08:46 PM
I've tried so hard to get on with front squats because of how good they feel on my quads, but have never managed. If I sit the bar behind my front delts it presses on my Adams apple and makes me heave mid-set. If I have the bar the other side of my delt it pulls me forward too much.

A real GBr would just get the Adams apple removed!! ;D
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: ritch on August 28, 2015, 09:30:25 PM
Unless you are a competitive Olympic Lifter, why in the fucking world would anyone do front squats?

With my sciatic issues, for some odd reason, they pass. BAck squats aggravate the pain. But find them way superior for quad development. Who cares of back squats activate hams? Gonna train them next anyway. You get glute development from back squats, great for some, not so good for others.

Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: ritch on August 28, 2015, 09:34:21 PM
HEY!!! I wear those (Vibrams) and they are amazing for balance. Haha

Balance??? How can you have bad balance if you do squats and stuff? Smelliest invention of recent times those shoes...
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: mr.turbo on August 28, 2015, 10:11:11 PM
I believe this back squat pic is taken from the same workout.

Notice how Platz is leaning forward some. By leaning, in addition to the knee joint,  the hips are also a lever and a fulcrum, hence the term "compound movement."

In front squats, the upright position, that Ritch mentioned, takes the hips out of the lever equation, and puts the main burden in the knee joint. You can get away with this for awhile, but eventually, you'll most likely have knee issues.

Of course, if you lean too far forward doing back squats, you'll have the same issue only in the lumbar area.

well correct me if I'm wrong but the fact that the legs are attached at the hips means it's always going to be loaded and a lever. I think you mean the back is taken out of the movement?

notice that platz is "leaning forward" ie. sitting back in the front squat pic?  The knee alignment is about the same.

you can fuck your knees up with back squats too.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: Thin Lizzy on August 29, 2015, 03:44:53 AM
well correct me if I'm wrong but the fact that the legs are attached at the hips means it's always going to be loaded and a lever. I think you mean the back is taken out of the movement?

notice that platz is "leaning forward" ie. sitting back in the front squat pic?  The knee alignment is about the same.

you can fuck your knees up with back squats too.

If your spine is perpendicular to the ground, there's no lever. Only when there's an angle does hip joint become a lever.

In the Platz back squat pic, it's mainly his glutes that will get him out the hole until his quads take over. The lower back is mainly a stabilizer and only becomes an issue if you lean over too far and turn the exercise into a hybrid Squat/Good Morning.

The knee issues from back squats are primarily as result of bad form and too much weight. Even with solid form, there's a limit to what the body can handle.

I just think back squats are a more natural movement than fronts.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: falco on August 29, 2015, 03:56:53 AM
Front squats agravatted my rotator cuff issues. But they really burned my quads when i used to do them.
Title: Re: Front Squat
Post by: mr.turbo on August 29, 2015, 04:39:06 AM
If your spine is perpendicular to the ground, there's no lever. Only when there's an angle does hip joint become a lever.

In the Platz back squat pic, it's mainly his glutes that will get him out the hole until his quads take over. The lower back is mainly a stabilizer and only becomes an issue if you lean over too far and turn the exercise into a hybrid Squat/Good Morning.

The knee issues from back squats are primarily as result of bad form and too much weight. Even with solid form, there's a limit to what the body can handle.

I just think back squats are a more natural movement than fronts.

I see what you mean about the spine...but... the load doesn't go through the spine since the bar is on the front.

what matters is the position of the bar relative to the hip joint.  That's where the load is in both the front and back squat.

seems to me the geometry of the lower body is about the same either way.  ;)