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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Palumboism on September 22, 2015, 07:45:36 PM
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VW emissions scandal explained:
By Alistair Charlton
"VW manufactured and installed software in the electronic control module (ECM) of these vehicles that sensed when the vehicle was being tested for compliance with EPA emissions standards," the EPA wrote in a document sent to VW. Controlled by an automatic switch, the defeat device monitors the position of the steering wheel, vehicle speed, engine barometric pressure and how long the engine has been running for, among other variables, to work out when the vehicle is being tested.
The EPA added: "During emission testing, the vehicles' ECM ran software which produced compliant emission results under an ECM calibration that VW referred to as the 'dyno calibration'... at all other times during normal vehicle operation, the 'switch' was activated and the vehicle ECM software ran a separate 'road calibration' which reduces the effectiveness of the emission control system."
As a result of this simple switch from "dyno" to "road", emissions of NOx increased by a factor of between 10 and 40 times above EPA compliant levels, depending on how the car was driven.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vw-emissions-scandal-explained-this-how-volkswagen-alleged-have-cheated-1520698 (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vw-emissions-scandal-explained-this-how-volkswagen-alleged-have-cheated-1520698)
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How Engineers at West Virginia University Caught VW Cheating
By Philip E. Ross
“Some people have mischaracterized what our role was,” says Dan Carder, interim director of the University of West Virginia’s Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines and Emissions (CAFEE). “Some have used the phrase ‘tipped off the EPA.’ But we were just working under contract.”
The contracting organization, a European non-profit, had wanted to convince European regulators to emulate strict U.S. standards for diesel emissions of nitrous oxides (NOX). So it asked CAFEE engineers to gather data from the field. They rented VW diesels, measured their tailpipe emissions on the road and compared them to measurements on the same cars made in the lab. The discrepancies were huge.
“We presented this in a public forum in San Diego, in the spring of 2014; we said, these are two vehicles; we’re presenting what we can present,” Carder says. “And EPA people were in the audience.” Meanwhile, the sponsoring group, called the International Council on Clean Transportation, published the results online as well.
The information was out there for more than a year. But the auto press missed its significance.
The EPA did not. It started testing with a vengence, going through all the necessary protocols before formally approaching Volkswagen. VW resisted for a while, then it admitted that it had deliberately cheated.
“What’s surprising to me was their total admission,”
http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/advanced-cars/how-professors-caught-vw-cheating (http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/advanced-cars/how-professors-caught-vw-cheating)
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So...
even more pollution by intent.
Not surprising.
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(https://fbcdn-photos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/12004871_934567099950027_6530377735030310756_n.jpg?oh=aabe3074e46810f480b75c5e2a7285aa&oe=5698AAA2&__gda__=1449259333_b5cb1adc660135de6c24b85dd3c7982f)
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VW and Audi said the 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine on the smaller cars was able to meet the emissions requirements without a urea injection system often referred to as "AdBlue".
I wonder why they decided to cheat rather than install a urea injection system. ???
Tomorrow I'm going to walk up to the first environmental hipster I see, driving a Jetta TDI, and let them know their car is an environmental disaster polluting at 40 times the legal limit.
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The question is WHO at VW actually approved this software installation, I'm thinking it's right from the TOP...
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I kind of like VW more because of this.
GM is facing a fine of nearly a billion for installing faulty ignitions, killing about 130.
VW is facing a fines and fees of up to 18 billion for…delivering greater performance.
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The question is WHO at VW actually approved this software installation, I'm thinking it's right from the TOP...
It's unlikely the CEO of VW will have his job on Friday.
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Fuck yeah, I'm snapping up a bunch of their shares if it tanks anymore
God Bless the Nazis at the EPA for destroying millions of people's savings in the name of a negligible amount of virtually harmless 'greenhouse gas'
GM was a bailout company, obviously the rules are different for a nationalized Democrat industry - so what if they kill a few people? Don't you remember ACID RAIN, you monster?
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I kind of like VW more because of this.
GM is facing a fine of nearly a billion for installing faulty ignitions, killing about 130.
VW is facing a fines and fees of up to 18 billion for…delivering greater performance.
^^
AND polluting from 10 to 40 times more than stated...
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I think it's great - awesome engineering.
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Behind every great fortune there is a crime.
—Balzac
PS some credit the quote to others
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^^
AND polluting from 10 to 40 times more than stated...
What does that even mean? How many dead or stricken with asthma? Isn't the potential fine based on an abstraction?
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What does that even mean? How many dead or stricken with asthma? Isn't the potential fine based on an abstraction?
It's only known to be harmful to the state of California.
So if you're anywhere else consider yourself lucky. You dodged a bullet.
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Emissions testing...more government bullshit. Don't forget to recycle sheep. ;)
California heading the tinfoil hat brigade. Little insignificant earthlings acting holier than thou. As if we impact the world that much. We will start a nuclear war much sooner than "global warming" will ever effect us.
Everyone trying to live until their 110. Let it go. ;)
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(https://fbcdn-photos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/12004871_934567099950027_6530377735030310756_n.jpg?oh=aabe3074e46810f480b75c5e2a7285aa&oe=5698AAA2&__gda__=1449259333_b5cb1adc660135de6c24b85dd3c7982f)
LOL
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Good time to buy VW stock.
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I gotta start looking at the VW sportscars.
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could cost jobs. I know a few people who work at VW in Wolfsburg. They Drive together and swap over to save money as it´s a fair distance away. They earn good money though...
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Emissions testing...more government bullshit. Don't forget to recycle sheep. ;)
California heading the tinfoil hat brigade. Little insignificant earthlings acting holier than thou. As if we impact the world that much. We will start a nuclear war much sooner than "global warming" will ever effect us.
Everyone trying to live until their 110. Let it go. ;)
Exxon already knew of Global warming in 1977....
http://gizmodo.com/exxon-scientists-knew-fossil-fuels-caused-climate-chang-1731707762
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Vorsprung Durch Software....
What will happen to the resale values?
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What a crazy thing.
The older new bugs were putting out a quart of oil every 1000 miles, and now this happens.
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The CEO stepped down. lol. VW is a major powerhouse with Audi, Bughatti and other high end cars.
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A German company cheating? Well I never..
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A German company cheating? Well I never..
CDU ::) Greedy rich getting richer i can only happily say at least i was in politics here in Celle and said my opinion, Did it help me ? somewhat yes. I remember being under observation from the "Stadt".
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I had a car follow me around for a while and even at work they sent a woman in to talk to me. i knew she was verfassungsschutz and i trained her.
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I am left in my Politics but not communist. I was in the celle Kreistag in 2006. I believe in fair rights for the working man.
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It's only known to be harmful to the state of California.
So if you're anywhere else consider yourself lucky. You dodged a bullet.
Then I'm doomed! I apologize for my glibness and I'll have my doc prescribe me some Advair.
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By VW CEO Martin Winterkorn
"I am shocked by the events of the past few days. Above all, I am stunned that misconduct on such a scale was possible in the Volkswagen Group.
As CEO I accept responsibility for the irregularities that have been found in diesel engines and have therefore requested the Supervisory Board to agree on terminating my function as CEO of the Volkswagen Group. I am doing this in the interests of the company even though I am not aware of any wrong doing on my part.
Volkswagen needs a fresh start – also in terms of personnel. I am clearing the way for this fresh start with my resignation.
I have always been driven by my desire to serve this company, especially our customers and employees. Volkswagen has been, is and will always be my life.
The process of clarification and transparency must continue. This is the only way to win back trust. I am convinced that the Volkswagen Group and its team will overcome this grave crisis."
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By VW CEO Martin Winterkorn
"I am shocked by the events of the past few days. Above all, I am stunned that misconduct on such a scale was possible in the Volkswagen Group.
As CEO I accept responsibility for the irregularities that have been found in diesel engines and have therefore requested the Supervisory Board to agree on terminating my function as CEO of the Volkswagen Group. I am doing this in the interests of the company even though I am not aware of any wrong doing on my part.
Volkswagen needs a fresh start – also in terms of personnel. I am clearing the way for this fresh start with my resignation.
I have always been driven by my desire to serve this company, especially our customers and employees. Volkswagen has been, is and will always be my life.
The process of clarification and transparency must continue. This is the only way to win back trust. I am convinced that the Volkswagen Group and its team will overcome this grave crisis."
Shocked? Before he became CEO, he was head of R&D correct?
And it ain't just VW that is cheating.
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And it ain't just VW that is cheating.
Correct.
Everything is one big lie.
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VW and Audi said the 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine on the smaller cars was able to meet the emissions requirements without a urea injection system often referred to as "AdBlue".
I wonder why they decided to cheat rather than install a urea injection system. ???
Tomorrow I'm going to walk up to the first environmental hipster I see, driving a Jetta TDI, and let them know their car is an environmental disaster polluting at 40 times the legal limit.
because they couldnt get it to work. so they cheated the system
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All this bullshit about clean burning Diesel cars etc... was all just bullshit. Hahahaha. fucking lemmings. Wonder how many hipsters have put their Diesel VW on craigslist after this story leaked.
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Correct.
Everything is one big lie.
Now Audi R&D head Ulrich Hackenberg, and Porsche heads of engines, Wolfgang Hatz, among other top VAG execs may be dismissed as well.
And apparently BMW is coming under fire as well.
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I wish I were a true getbig CEO so I could afford more than $5000 of shares. Now hopefully in a year they're back to 254 and I can buy a new Audi with the profit ;D
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This is a bigger European story than it is United States…Europe has many more diesel cars of various makes than the US…There are some 400,000 year 2009 and later diesel Volkswagens in the ‘States…There are 10 million in Europe. Thusly, Europe’s smog is more heavily influenced by the diesel engine’s emissions (nitrous oxides) than here in the US.
Diesels are hard to make to run clean compared to gasoline engines.
General Motors has been tearing their hair out trying figure out how to make a clean automobile (as opposed to a big semi-truck tractor) diesel engine…They solved the soot, they solved the smell…but the nitrous oxides kept kicking them in the ass.
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Your car performs better and still passes the emissions test.
I will be looking at offers on VWs later thgis month,
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Your car performs better and still passes the emissions test.
I will be looking at offers on VWs later thgis month,
If you want something fun to drive…I would recommend a naturally aspirated V6 GTI. The last year with that engine was 2003. I have a 2003 silver gray VR6 GTI with 6 speed shift, with leather interior. I drove it until I made the mistake of driving it with a bad water pump and I think warped the head…It had 250,000 miles after 12 years. I have it in the corner and when I get out of the hole financial wise I am going to drop a short block into it.
It was so much fun to drive and was so comfortable. I call her Grimgerde…
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181367.0;attach=212843;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181367.0;attach=212844;image)
I moved when I saw that it was a handicapped spot.
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I moved when I saw that it was a handicapped spot.
Why?
:P
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If you want something fun to drive…I would recommend a naturally aspirated V6 GTI. The last year with that engine was 2003. I have a 2003 silver gray VR6 GTI with 6 speed shift, with leather interior. I drove it until I made the mistake of driving it with a bad water pump and I think warped the head…It had 250,000 miles after 12 years. I have it in the corner and when I get out of the hole financial wise I am going to drop a short block into it.
It was so much fun to drive and was so comfortable. I call her Grimgerde…
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181367.0;attach=212843;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181367.0;attach=212844;image)
I moved when I saw that it was a handicapped spot.
Did Navy Mike turn up?
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Anyone who thinks breathing in this shit is no big deal either has never lived in an area where smog is brutal or has never traveled to a place with smog is brutal...
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If you want something fun to drive…I would recommend a naturally aspirated V6 GTI. The last year with that engine was 2003. I have a 2003 silver gray VR6 GTI with 6 speed shift, with leather interior. I drove it until I made the mistake of driving it with a bad water pump and I think warped the head…It had 250,000 miles after 12 years. I have it in the corner and when I get out of the hole financial wise I am going to drop a short block into it.
It was so much fun to drive and was so comfortable. I call her Grimgerde…
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181367.0;attach=212843;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181367.0;attach=212844;image)
I moved when I saw that it was a handicapped spot.
Nice ride. One of my favorite VWs.
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Funny or die spoofs smug Jetta owners breaking up with their cars.
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b296414db0/basic-girls-break-up-with-jettas?_cc=__d___&_ccid=3c429u.nvakzl (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b296414db0/basic-girls-break-up-with-jettas?_cc=__d___&_ccid=3c429u.nvakzl)
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Looks like Kevin De Bruyne got out just in time. :'(
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(http://orig07.deviantart.net/7fc5/f/2013/023/7/d/7d7f252898496447dda4889bab0e57ba-d5sgew2.jpg)
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By: Brandon Turkus
You know how the Volkswagen diesel scandal is very, very, very bad? Well, if a report from Germany's Der Spiegel is true, it's about to get a lot worse.
Throughout the entire affair, VW has maintained that it was a small, isolated group behind the so-called defeat devices. Der Spiegel, though, claims that at least 30 managers knew what was going on and that dozens will be suspended for their role in the scandal. The story cites both an external probe ordered by VW and conducted by US law firm Jones Day as well as the company's own preliminary findings.
This report flies directly in the face of what Volkswagen of America CEO Michael Horn, shown above, said in his sworn testimony to congress last week. Horn straight up said that the scandal "was something individuals did," blaming a sort of rogue group of software engineers (although he also acknowledged such an argument was hard to swallow). If it's proven that he was among the 30 employees involved, or he can be otherwise connected, the embattled exec could be in big trouble.
According to the Der Speigel story, a VW spokesperson said, "The number is without foundation."
Der Spiegel also cited a VW engineer, who said that any diesel engine, like the EA188, EA189, and EA288, that could get by without pricey emissions controls should "have [made] any engine developers leery."
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/14/30-vw-managers-knew-emissions-cheat/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/14/30-vw-managers-knew-emissions-cheat/)
Sounds like more people were involved than originally thought.
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A big conspiracy, no matter how you look at it!
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Has anyone considered that the U.S. emissions standards are excessive? The left wing marxists that populate the EPA want to make standards so tough that cars will become so expensive and people won't be able to afford them, thus moving to either public transportation or (impractical) green technology such as electric (which really isn't all that green, except on the surface).
The EPA needs to be abolished and let the car companies go back to building cars without bureaucratic government interference. The free market and public demand will bring about standards that work for everyone.
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It makes me wonder if other companies are able to meet Cali's emissions regulations.
Also what's the deal if you have an older vehicle that was compliant back when but doesn't meet modern standards? Is it grandfathered in or do half the cars on the road become illegal every time they tighten emissions laws?
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It makes me wonder if other companies are able to meet Cali's emissions regulations.
Also what's the deal if you have an older vehicle that was compliant back when but doesn't meet modern standards? Is it grandfathered in or do half the cars on the road become illegal every time they tighten emissions laws?
Cali tough. Cars must have all original emission equipment. NO mods. Only cars 1975 down exempt. Heavy pressure to change even that exemption, with very little resistance to meet (classic car collectors, more or less).
Specs will change as a car ages, but nowhere within reality of matter. Almost no 80s, 90s cars around Cali in most counties. They can't pass, usually because of rings and/or v.gs or because they've been so far removed from original state.
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Cali tough. Cars must have all original emission equipment. NO mods. Only cars 1975 down exempt. Heavy pressure to change even that exemption, with very little resistance to meet (classic car collectors, more or less).
Specs will change as a car ages, but nowhere within reality of matter. Almost no 80s, 90s cars around Cali in most counties. They can't pass, usually because of rings and/or v.gs or because they've been so far removed from original state.
If people would just stop having babies, we could have never ending supplies of 1967 Lincoln Continentals. The problem is not cars, its too many humans.
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If people would just stop having babies, we could have never ending supplies of 1967 Lincoln Continentals. The problem is not cars, its too many humans.
I agree. It comes from the cheap value of people, which is the wrong way for us to be.
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By Bob Lutz
Ferdinand Piëch, the immensely powerful former chief of Volkswagen's supervisory board, is more than likely the root cause of the VW diesel-emissions scandal. Whether he specifically asked for, tacitly approved, or was even aware of the company's use of software to deliberately fudge EPA emissions testing is immaterial.
I sat next to him at an industry dinner in the Nineties, just after the fourth-generation Golf had debuted at the Frankfurt show. I told him, "I'd like to congratulate you on the new Golf. First of all, it's a nice-looking car, but God, those body fits!"
"Ah, you like those?"
"Yeah. I wish we could get close to that at Chrysler."
"I'll give you the recipe. I called all the body engineers, stamping people, manufacturing, and executives into my conference room. And I said, 'I am tired of all these lousy body fits. You have six weeks to achieve world-class body fits. I have all your names. If we do not have good body fits in six weeks, I will replace all of you. Thank you for your time today.' "
That's the way he ran everything. It's what I call a reign of terror and a culture where performance was driven by fear and intimidation. He just says, "You will sell diesels in the U.S., and you will not fail. Do it, or I'll find somebody who will." The guy was absolutely brutal.
I imagine that at some point, the VW engineering team said to Piëch, "We don't know how to pass the emissions test with the hardware we have." The reply, in that culture, most likely was, "You will pass! I demand it! Or I'll find someone who can do it!"
In these situations, your choice was immediate dismissal or find a way to pass the test and pay the consequences later. Human nature being what it is—if it's lose your job today for sure or lose your job maybe a year from now, we always pick maybe a year from now.
That management style gets short-term results, but it's a culture that's extremely dangerous. Look at dictators. Dictators invariably wind up destroying the very countries they thought their omniscience and omnipotence would make great. It's fast and it's efficient, but at huge risk.
Volkswagen
This diesel fiasco is immeasurable in terms of damages—so much worse than Toyota acceleration, Ford Firestone tires, or GM ignition switches. In all those cases, tragically, people died, but it wasn't premeditated. You settle with the victims' families, pay the fine, put in the new parts, and for $1.5 billion, it can all be contained. But this Volkswagen mess is like the disaster that keeps on giving.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a27197/bob-lutz-vw-diesel-fiasco/ (http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a27197/bob-lutz-vw-diesel-fiasco/)
(http://www.boblutzsez.com/image/45922496.jpg)
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This is the result of company executives/bullies who have the impression that if you work hard enough and are smart enough you can contradict physics and chemistry.
For every scion of industry with the reputation of hanging his ass over the edge and through testicular content pulling it all off...there are others who have hung his ass over the edge and his testicular content was brusquely removed.