Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Simple Simon on September 23, 2015, 09:12:13 AM
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http://www.ifbb.com/pdf/IFBBrulebook.pdf
28.1 General:
When assessing a competitor’s physique, a judge should follow a routine procedure which will allow a comprehensive assessment of the physique as a whole. During the comparisons of the compulsory poses, the judge should first look at the primary muscle group being displayed. The judge should then survey the whole physique, starting from the head, and looking at every part of the physique in a downward sequence, beginning with general impressions, and looking for muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and definition.
The downward survey should take in the head, neck, shoulders, chest, all of the arm muscles, front of the trunk for pectorals, pec-delt tie-in, abdominals, waist, thighs, legs and calves and feet. The same procedure for back poses will also take in the upper and lower trapezius, teres and infraspinatus, erector spinae, the gluteus group, the leg biceps group at the back of the thighs and calves and feet.
A detailed assessment of the various muscle groups should be made during the comparisons, at which time it helps the judge to compare muscle shape, density, and definition while still bearing in mind the competitor’s overall balanced development. The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized as these comparisons will help the judge to decide which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and definition.
28.2 Assessing the Male Physique:
In assessing prejudging, overall shape and that of the various muscle groups is important. The judge should favour competitors with a harmonious, classical physique. The judge should look for good posture and athletic bearing, correct anatomical structure (including body framework, broad shoulders, high chest, correct spinal curves, limbs and trunk in good proportion, straight legs, not bandy or knock- kneed). The judge should also look for good skin tone with an absence of surgical or other scars, spots, acne or tattoos, which the IFBB considers as a skin blemish, tidily dressed hair, well-shaped feet, and toes. When having difficulty in placing two or more competitors who seem to be on the same level, the judge should look for faults in those aspects listed above which will help to differentiate among the competitors. Detail description of the men’s compulsory poses may be found in Appendix 2, Point 1.1
Can anyone place Branch Warren in 6th place at the Olympia
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http://www.ifbb.com/pdf/IFBBrulebook.pdf
Can anyone place Branch Warren in 6th place at the Olympia
The judges did.
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The judges did.
they placed him 6th, but did they base their decision on the set criteria.
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they placed him 6th, but did they base their decision on the set criteria.
doesn't matter
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doesn't matter
Amazing.
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:-X
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Branch sucks all the right penises in the IFBB
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BE THERE, This sure ain't the answer you're looking for nor expect to find, but think of it this way which might simplify what the rulebook has to say.
Judging any object or living human being when more than one object or one human being is involved ... is simply a matter of comparing one object or one human being against another.
There is much more involved, but that's the simply way of saying it.
But unless you determine a winner his or her throwing a basketball through a hoop, you will always have objections or sexual accusations.
The rest of us gotta live with it.
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BE THERE, This sure ain't the answer you're looking for nor expect to find, but think of it this way which might simplify what the rulebook has to say.
Judging any object or living human being when more than one object or one human being is involved ... is simply a matter of comparing one object or one human being against another.
There is much more involved, but that's the simply way of saying it.
But unless you determine a winner his or her throwing a basketball through a hoop, you will always have objections or sexual accusations.
The rest of us gotta live with it.
But there is a set criteria , and if we are all subjective why do most Mr Olympia's get straight firsts?
Surely not every single judge thinks hes the best in the field?
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But there is a set criteria , and if we are all subjective why do most Mr Olympia's get straight firsts?
Surely not every single judge thinks hes the best in the field?
I'm sure there are some dog enthusiasts out there who react similar to bodybuilding fans after Westminster. :D
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I highly doubt if any of the judges ever even read that. :(
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I highly doubt if any of the judges ever even read that. :(
I suspect most of the judges place people where the think they should place based on their name rather than their physique.
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I suspect most of the judges place people where the think they should place based on their name rather than their physique.
Or they`re told how the placings should be before the contestants are ever seen. :(
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I don't think there's anything fair regarding Mr. Oilympia judges.
Like politicians they're just puppets.
Doing what they're told.
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From now on,only NABBA USA contests for me........no more NPC shows............just not willing or rich enough to get beaten by guys who train like pansies and take boatloads of gear while I bust balls daily eating tuna straight out da` can!
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If the judges took that criteria strictly, William Bonac would have been top 3. He pretty much has it all--good size, conditioning, flow, symmetry, aesthetics.
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Ok here's the real deal on that issue.
1. The bottom line for modern pro bodybuilding success = amount of ripped, freaky muscle mass.
Branch may not have great classic lines and shape, BUT, he has a ton of ,muscle on his frame in shredded condition.
A sack of muscular shit is still a sack of shit.
Lots of muscle.............YES,looks great.........NO,looks like shit.
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C'mon Wes, what else did you expect?
Without any restrictions on drugs and freaky muscle being rewarded , that's just the way it is.
NABBA seems like a good organization and Bob Gruskin is one the best people in bodybuilding.
The only knock on them is they don't have many shows on their USA schedule.
In my opinion, the most practical solution is to compete in an NPC show run by a good promoter within driving distance.
I think the big national events are a money pit for most of the entrants.
I`m going for the NABBA pro-card Howard..........York Pa.
They just got their pro division started a couple of years back............I would have it already but I got stranded in Binghampton N.Y.................long story but I never looked as good and I was 57 years old.
I got a ton of fair placing in the NPC and even a few gifts, but got robbed a lot too.
Not sour grapes from me,I`m a good sport .............long stories that would take up too much time as I type with one finger because I`m old and only went to Community College. ;D
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On my scorecard it would have been :
1st Dexter Jackson
2nd Bonac
3rd Wolf
4th Rhoden
5th Heath
16th - last- Victor M.
I wouldn`t have argued with that at all.
Yes,Martinez looked almost untrained............he`s done IMO.
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Ok here's the real deal on that issue.
1. The bottom line for modern pro bodybuilding success = amount of ripped, freaky muscle mass.
Branch may not have great classic lines and shape, BUT, he has a ton of ,muscle on his frame in shredded condition.
2. The IFBB has rarely followed and enforced the official rules and standards .
The "rules" are based more on accepted norms within the sport.
Their are actual rules and official criteria for stage lighting intensity. How often to you think THAT gets measured and adjusted with a light meter? LOL, almost never.
Their are 48 pgs on IFBB banned substances and drug testing and it isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
3. The main "stances" used in bikini are technically against the rules. The classic arched back " butt pose" is sexy looking and it's a clear violation of the judging criteria. BUT, only a queer retard would complain about it LOL.
4. C'mon now, bodybuilding contests have been a "free for all circus" for many years .
Trying to debate the current judging criteria, is like trying to analyze how guys in Hooters rate the waitresses.
FFS no he isnt, his legs maybe but he has zero seration in his back chest shoulders and arms, hes a fucking bloated mess.
Compare him to Bonac around the chest and arm area
(http://s17.postimg.org/r3ia7w9m7/Screen_Shot_2015_09_23_at_19_21_09.png)
See the difference?
This grainy look people keep banging on about is a fucking myth
this is grainy
(http://798ba1b174f0e6a04a8efe01.thevladarcompany.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/dorian-yates-triceps.jpg)
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Bonac blows him out of the water........16 place for the abomination called Branch if I was a judge.
Torn bodyparts of peace.
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(http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Michael+Kefalianos+2012+IFBB+Australian+Pro+zbpttAHb80pl.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuilders.gr/images/articles/interviews/kefalianos_branch_warren_2012_back-1.jpg)
He just squeaked by 2nd/3rd tier pro Michael Kefalianos in 2012
lol figure girl has better shoulder separation
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/Pro_final-1443.jpg)
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Ok here's the real deal on that issue.
1. The bottom line for modern pro bodybuilding success = amount of ripped, freaky muscle mass.
Branch may not have great classic lines and shape, BUT, he has a ton of ,muscle on his frame in shredded condition.
2. The IFBB has rarely followed and enforced the official rules and standards .
The "rules" are based more on accepted norms within the sport.
Their are actual rules and official criteria for stage lighting intensity. How often to you think THAT gets measured and adjusted with a light meter? LOL, almost never.
Their are 48 pgs on IFBB banned substances and drug testing and it isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
3. The main "stances" used in bikini are technically against the rules. The classic arched back " butt pose" is sexy looking and it's a clear violation of the judging criteria. BUT, only a queer retard would complain about it LOL.
4. C'mon now, bodybuilding contests have been a "free for all circus" for many years .
Trying to debate the current judging criteria, is like trying to analyze how guys in Hooters rate the waitresses.
Are you sure you're a judge? No offense, but you're the dumbest fucking judge in the history of the IFBB.
Yes, he is clearly shredded. ??? ::) ::) Wow, youre an idiot. Its quite clear the IFBB is in the shape its in because people like you think this is shredded. Holy shit!
And whats going on with his right pec? Sunken in and distorted.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/wje8vk.png)
Besides a watery back, look at his left and right left. The right lat looks disproportioned compared to the left lat.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/qz1z5t.png)
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Got loose skin under his pecs also like he`s 80 years old already.
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Are you sure you're a judge? No offense, but you're the dumbest fucking judge in the history of the IFBB.
Yes, he is clearly shredded. ??? ::) ::) Wow, youre an idiot. Its quite clear the IFBB is in the shape its in because people like you think this is shredded. Holy shit!
And whats going on with his right pec? Sunken in and distorted.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/wje8vk.png)
Besides a watery back, look at his left and right left. The right lat looks disproportioned compared to the left lat.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/qz1z5t.png)
this is shredded
(http://broscience.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/shredded-guy3.png)
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this is shredded
(http://broscience.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/shredded-guy3.png)
And this
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/1075/630/d/1995_arnold_classic_review_b1216139758.jpg)
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And this
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/1075/630/d/1995_arnold_classic_review_b1216139758.jpg)
I would be interested what Howard would call these guys?
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Can anyone give any clues as to what they look for in the head and feet? WTF is that about?
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I would be interested what Howard would call these guys?
If Branch is shredded, what would we call Andrea Munzer? Super shredded? Mega shredded? ??? ???
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Branch has the "1 gallon of diarrhea in 1 quart ziploc bag" look.
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If Branch is shredded, what would we call Andrea Munzer? Super shredded? Mega shredded? ??? ???
Flayed?
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Got loose skin under his pecs also like he`s 80 years old already.
They almost sag when he's being interviewed.
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Hey bozo boy ::), I was an NPC amateur and before that an AAU judge ( Mr America) and never judged in the IFBB. If you read my previous post ( to Wes) on my Olympia top picks you'd realize Branch was no where on that list.
I was given a possible reason why the current IFBB judges placed him higher then a lot of other guys at the O and gave him 1st 3 weeks ago vs Cedric. I don't understand or agree with a lot of the IFBB judges picks either. Anyone who knows me, knows that, so I agree with your assessment on the IFBB judges.
You used the word shredded.
Do you still think Branch was shredded?
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Hey bozo boy ::), I was an NPC amateur and before that an AAU judge ( Mr America) and never judged in the IFBB. If you read my previous post ( to Wes) on my Olympia top picks you'd realize Branch was no where on that list.
I was given a possible reason why the current IFBB judges placed him higher then a lot of other guys at the O and gave him 1st 3 weeks ago vs Cedric. I don't understand or agree with a lot of the IFBB judges picks either. Anyone who knows me, knows that, so I agree with your assessment on the IFBB judges.
Im the bozo? lol
You said Branch was shredded. Read below.
Ok here's the real deal on that issue.
1. The bottom line for modern pro bodybuilding success = amount of ripped, freaky muscle mass.
Branch may not have great classic lines and shape, BUT, he has a ton of ,muscle on his frame in shredded condition.
Can you not read your own words, you idiot? :D :D You said he has a ton of muscles in shredded condition. :-\
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Real IFBB Mr. Oilympia judging criteria:
(gallons of oil * gut size) / times judge dicks blown
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I also used the word sexy when your mom was blowing me . I was drunk and not thinking clearly. ;D
Back peddle of peace for being a moron. :D :D
And people like you are deemed "fit" to judge any bodybuilding contest. Wow! lol
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(http://www.team-andro.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/191053/normal_DSC_3789~7.jpg)
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(http://www.team-andro.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/191053/normal_DSC_3789~7.jpg)
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/3a/3a985d9d64260d7677b6d6212d4242f83b227151e51788689b62ce6de916d251.jpg)
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Well , if the hair style and shoe size matches...? :D
Let me spell this out for you folks ,since you seem a tad slow on the uptake here:
1. I do NOT, repeat do NOT agree with the IFBB judges on this and many other pics. I've posted numerous times that they don't use and adhere to their own official IFBB written standards.
2. My description of Branch is based on what I think the IFBB judges perception of him is...NOT mine.
3. I respect and admire Branch Warren as a bodybuilder and how he lives his life as a man.
Like many others, it seems obvious now that he's put too many miles on the muscles and needs to retire.
BUT, if the judges still reward him with smaller shows wins and high places at the biggest show, WTF?!
Look, if your boss pays you a top salary and give you props on the job, should you quit because someone on the street , says you suck? Nope.... ;)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0KFwBSmvAQ0/VbbunQY-7AI/AAAAAAACOec/-T48HkB32gM/s1600/BP.gif)
In your estimation give us an insight into Branch's physique from your perspective as a qualified judge.
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Bodybuilding is subjective and bad calls happen like with Branch.
But people don't understand how bodybuilding judges and many "fans" think. The factor they
look for is how "advanced" a bodybuilder is. Some aesthetic considerations are overlooked when
a guy is very advanced in his development if conditioned and has "ok" proportions. Like Ronnie in 2003, his gut was terrible and had some torn parts and dowright shitty parts as well (calves). But what are you going to do, the guy was so advanced and so overpowering it simply blew the mind. So where to put a guy like that? If you don't put him first, where do you put him? I'm sure there were 10 other more alanced guys on stage that night. What happened was he won and not many complained because he was just so overpowering despite the flaws.
I'm actually amazed the judging isn't worse than it is. IME bodyuilding fans mostly agree with the placings, the would just like to switch places with a couple of guys and then you have a true gift or two but what do you expect in beauty pageant.
Putting the judging criteria on paper doesn't work.
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Well , if the hair style and shoe size matches...? :D
Let me spell this out for you folks ,since you seem a tad slow on the uptake here:
1. I do NOT, repeat do NOT agree with the IFBB judges on this and many other pics. I've posted numerous times that they don't use and adhere to their own official IFBB written standards.
2. My description of Branch is based on what I think the IFBB judges perception of him is...NOT mine.
3. I respect and admire Branch Warren as a bodybuilder and how he lives his life as a man.
Like many others, it seems obvious now that he's put too many miles on the muscles and needs to retire.
BUT, if the judges still reward him with smaller shows wins and high places at the biggest show, WTF?!
Look, if your boss pays you a top salary and give you props on the job, should you quit because someone on the street , says you suck? Nope.... ;)
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/50434837.jpg)
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Bodybuilding is subjective and bad calls happen like with Branch.
But people don't understand how bodybuilding judges and many "fans" think. The factor they
look for is how "advanced" a bodybuilder is. Some aesthetic considerations are overlooked when
a guy is very advanced in his development if conditioned and has "ok" proportions. Like Ronnie in 2003, his gut was terrible and had some torn parts and dowright shitty parts as well (calves). But what are you going to do, the guy was so advanced and so overpowering it simply blew the mind. So where to put a guy like that? If you don't put him first, where do you put him? I'm sure there were 10 other more alanced guys on stage that night. What happened was he won and not many complained because he was just so overpowering despite the flaws.
I'm actually amazed the judging isn't worse than it is. IME bodyuilding fans mostly agree with the placings, the would just like to switch places with a couple of guys and then you have a true gift or two but what do you expect in beauty pageant.
Putting the judging criteria on paper doesn't work.
The problem is that Branch NEVER EVER fits that category, yet consistently places top 6 or wins shows.
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Since you recently declared me an unqualified retard, I am unable to honor your request.
Thanks for playing...good night and have a better tomorrow .
That wasnt me.
Why do you think the judges believe Branch is shredded?
They may think hes a bag of shit but just place him anyway because its good for controversy.
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That wasnt me.
Why do you think the judges believe Branch is shredded?
They may think hes a bag of shit but just place him anyway because its good for controversy.
Thats is, no one in their right mind can look at him and think he is shredded. That leads me to 2 conclusions:
1) Its political.
2) They are trying to create controversy (as you said) by placing him top 6. Then again, this would also be considered a political move.
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A dry and lean turd is still a turd.
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On my scorecard it would have been :
1st Dexter Jackson
2nd Bonac
3rd Wolf
4th Rhoden
5th Heath
16th - last- Victor M.
I wouldn't placed Wolf ahead Phil because of lack of calves other than that I agree with you
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Well at least we know he sux! ;)
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The problem is that Branch NEVER EVER fits that category, yet consistently places top 6 or wins shows.
Yes he's been getting gift placings but sometimes when he just walks out for his posing routine he looks damn crazy. Like when he took 2nd in the O. Very very thick. Be There says he's been called ripped undeservedly and I agree except for the legs. Very hard legs.
Like here:
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I think you give the IFBB judges too much credit for evoking some elaborate conspiracy here.
I don't have all the answers , that's for sure. :D
BUT, I do know the judging process is NOT some detailed elaborate conspiracy plan designed to evoke controversy. It's exactly the opposite of some well managed plan!
It's a lot more casual, haphazard and "off the cuff" then most will ever admit or realize.
If its not a conspiracy then why did not one of the judges give Dex the nod over Phil?
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I'm not an IFBB judge and don't know any of them as close personal friends, so I can't say why.
BUT, since this is a forum, I'll take a shot at what I think.
Phil is the current champ and looked " good enough " to keep the title.
I suspect it's pretty subjective and informal.
I also think "group think" and expected norms are major factors due to the insular nature of BB.
Judges get nice expenses paid trips, they dont want to rock the boat, if a judge gets out of step with the group he would get dropped.
I think you are right about the "group think"
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Yes he's been getting gift placings but sometimes when he just walks out for his posing routine he looks damn crazy. Like when he took 2nd in the O. Very very thick. Be There says he's been called ripped undeservedly and I agree except for the legs. Very hard legs.
Like here:
Too bad a bodybuilding contest is more than just legs.
Uncrowned 6x leg Mr. Olympia.
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Tidily dressed hair, well-shaped feet.
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HOWARD, I agree with you 100% when you said, "I do know the judging process is NOT some detailed elaborate conspiracy plan designed to evoke controversy."
But I'm probably only one of the 10% on this Board who would agree with that statement.
Friends, family, and fans have been disagreeing with bodybuilding decisions since the days of the AAU, way before the NPC and the IFBB were the head cheeses in the cheese-cake factory.
It may seem strange to say this but ..... that bit of judging controversy may be one of the major factors that keeps it alive and a major topic of conversation among the fans and a small part of the general population
Years ago we use to invite judging result antagonists to sit in as test judges in an effort to see if their judging tabulations were consistent with the official judging results.
No statistics here but during the majority of occasions ... the test judge scores were somewhat similar to the official results so the "It was political" accusations came to an abrupt halt among that group of test judge bodybuilding fans until a new group of fans made similar accusations and were eventually invited to 'sit in' and be a test judge.
I would bet you that all the GetBiggers who have been complaining about the official placings weren't even physically present .... and if they were present ..... they were most likely seated no where near the official judges' table.
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If the judges took that criteria strictly, William Bonac would have been top 3. He pretty much has it all--good size, conditioning, flow, symmetry, aesthetics.
I agree, even he was more complete than Heath.
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Even Peter McGough couldn't bring himself to accept branch's placing "the torso just isn't there"...it's not much fun for the rest of us to be spoon fed this horseshit about branch being "gnarly" and "aggressive"
I don't believe professional bodybuilding is regulated at all although there is some suggestion of it being a competitive event
I find myself mystified when it comes to defining this activity, There's some type of "committee" but it's seems to operate like pro wrestling where it's simply a set of "storylines" and "shows"...hmmm is it a secret? Is it a mafia? What's going on?
For example; amateur wresting and pro wresting are rather different. Is that the same for bodybuilding?
Let's hope someone can clarify this matter and I don't have to stare out into space pondering this indefinitely. 8)